2017-2018 Mayo Clinic School of Medicine

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
If there was one thing I took from a medical professionalism class at my school, it was that most pre-meds and residents, and even some doctors never fully understand all the financial aspects of medicine. Once you join a small practice/ try to run your own clinic, you are suddenly faced with all kinds of patients decisions. Most docs dont set out trying not to take medicaid/medicare patients. It usually begins because the practice cannot break even on costs / is on a downward trend because medicaid patients tend to spiral upward i.e more medicaid patients hear your practice is great so more of them come to you, and suddenly you are not being fully reimbursed for a super majority of your patients
Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
If you really want to learn more about the convoluted financial aspects of the American healthcare industry, I would recommend the book "An American Sickness" by Elisabeth Rosenthal, the editor and chief of Kaiser Health News. It is very well informed and well written, with minimal bias (though she is quite clear when it's her opinion rather than pure facts). After the first few chapters you'll realize that the issues within the US healthcare industry are very convoluted and complex, and that almost nothing is what it first seems.

"Amazon product"
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
BlackOrthoSurg said:
If there was one thing I took from a medical professionalism class at my school, it was that most pre-meds and residents, and even some doctors never fully understand all the financial aspects of medicine. Once you join a small practice/ try to run your own clinic, you are suddenly faced with all kinds of patients decisions. Most docs dont set out trying not to take medicaid/medicare patients. It usually begins because the practice cannot break even on costs / is on a downward trend because medicaid patients tend to spiral upward i.e more medicaid patients hear your practice is great so more of them come to you, and suddenly you are not being fully reimbursed for a super majority of your patients
Click to expand...

If you examine the mayo's curriculum, I think they are trying to address that more. I bet students may come to find out why mayo does what it does financially as a result of these kinds of courses. It was something that really interested me because clinicians are sometimes too wrapped up in their specific role in healthcare and not looking at the entire scope of healthcare.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Members don't see this ad :)
All of these arguments are well understood. I never refuted any of these points that you have laid out. The fact remains however, that Mayo is not as community health oriented as they describe. Once again, either by choice or by market forces.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
7331poas said:
All of these arguments are well understood. I never refuted any of these points that you have laid out. The fact remains however, that Mayo is not as community health oriented as they describe. Once again, either by choice or by market forces.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
Click to expand...

First off, that is not a fact, it is an opinion. Secondly, I still have yet to hear what an appropriate alternative would be. I agree that the first step to addressing a problem is acknowledging that it exists. However, after that point, if all we do is keep talking about there being a problem, while not actually contributing to the development of ideas to address said problem, then we are merely complaining and being counterproductive. So, what is a suitable alternative to handling the matter as you see it?
 
Leg58D said:
First off, that is not a fact, it is an opinion. Secondly, I still have yet to hear what an appropriate alternative would be. I agree that the first step to addressing a problem is acknowledging that it exists. However, after that point, if all we do is keep talking about there being a problem, while not actually contributing to the development of ideas to address said problem, then we are merely complaining and being counterproductive. So, what is a suitable alternative to handling the matter as you see it?
Click to expand...

There is no "appropriate alternative".

Lets take a hypothetical. I am a heavily global health oriented applicant and I am applying to Harvard. Now, harvard has hit a bit of a rough spot and they have to cut all their global health initiatives. Do I apply to this program? They clearly had to cut their global health programs in order to stay afloat. They did nothing wrong per say. Regardless, of course I wouldn't apply to Harvard because they do not possess the qualities I am looking for in a medical school program.

Now looking at Mayo. They are not very similar to this scenario because they have not cut out "all" their medicaid patients. Also they have several other attractive aspects of their program. So of course a community health applicant can still apply. But that doesn't change the facts of the situation, regardless if there was a "better alternative" or not.
 
7331poas said:
There is no "appropriate alternative".

Lets take a hypothetical. I am a heavily global health oriented applicant and I am applying to Harvard. Now, harvard has hit a bit of a rough spot and they have to cut all their global health initiatives. Do I apply to this program? They clearly had to cut their global health programs in order to stay afloat. They did nothing wrong per say. Regardless, of course I wouldn't apply to Harvard because they do not possess the qualities I am looking for in a medical school program.

Now looking at Mayo. They are not very similar to this scenario because they have not cut out "all" their medicaid patients. Also they have several other attractive aspects of their program. So of course a community health applicant can still apply. But that doesn't change the facts of the situation, regardless if there was a "better alternative" or not.
Click to expand...

True, Mayo Clinic does not focus on public health as an independent degree. It is one of their drawbacks for me as well since I'm interested in MD/MPH. That is why I also applied to other schools that have well integrated MPH component, like Duke and Harvard.

What I don't understand is the notion that they have betrayed all trust and faith as a community support organization with noble goals, and are now nothing more than a construct of capitalism as many of their peers seem to be. Several claims have been made here that were presented as indisputable facts and of an absolutist nature. I just want to know why? And what the basis of the argument is?

From where I sit, things don't appear that way. I don't see the Mayo Clinic as have betrayed its values and community responsibility, though I am disappointed that they were pressured into making a choice based on finances rather than human aspects. But, I may be missing somethings, and if I am I would like to know what they are so that I can reevaluate my stance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I feel like I started the third world war when I just wanted to know if Mayo has programs where students can help SES disadvantaged patients....
 
  • Like
Reactions: 11 users
Iris3 said:
I feel like I started the third world war when I just wanted to know if Mayo has programs where students can help SES disadvantaged patients....
Click to expand...
Hey Iris,

I skimmed through most of the posts after your post, and I just wanted to answer your question directly. Yes, there are many, many, MANY programs where students can help SES disadvantaged patients. Aside from the care aspect itself, there are also many educational programs to increase medical literacy amongst those in the population who may not have that type of knowledge. Second year students take turns rotating and running a free clinic here (with the supervision of an attending, of course). There are selectives that you can do that are aimed at these populations. You can do anything you want here. Trust me, just because something isn't on the front page of the Mayo website doesn't mean that it doesn't exist here. You will see that every person here at the Mayo Clinic is a leader who is free to explore their own passions, and many physicians here, especially in family medicine, have taken initiatives to help the underserved (both in the USA and around the world).

To all those who are ranting about Mayo putting private insurance first etc, I ask you to find a solution on how to run the world's best medical institution without worrying about finances. Please let me know if you have that solution, that would be great. Keep in mind that as future physicians, you can't be ignorant of the fact that medicine is not just science. It is business, economics, ethics, science, leadership, and so much more. I can say that every doctor here would love to take care of every patient in the world. Is that practical? No.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 9 users
Iris3 said:
@thenucleusaccumbens
@Darkkprince
@E4357

What kind of programs does Mayo have for the socioeconomically disadvantaged who have limited access to healthcare?

I absolutely love Mayo's mission of taking care of the needs of each patient, but at the same time, the more I find out about Mayo, the more I can't resist the idea of seeing it as a hospital system focused on the ultra rich.

I am absolutely not trying to criticize- don't get me wrong. I have volunteered, shadowed, and done projects at a large safety net hospital, so I am very interested in serving the less fortunate. I want my medical school to have at least some focus/program in this field too.

I read all these articles about how Mayo recognizes hospitals and doctors are unfamiliar and stressful things for patients, so Mayo clinics are set up like hotels starting right from the lounge. The list goes on. The extensive art gallery, doctors dressing in suits instead of white coats in outpatient services, the inpatient services such as the right to request to talk to a doctor who will come within 3 days for a 20 min talk...

All these definitely are convenient for the patient, but I'm sure the bill will rise accordingly. It is not necessarily a bad thing. I recognize that Mayo is non profit and that its revenue is continuously reinvested for improvement and research.

I saw your post that you saw some patients' expensive surgeries paid for by charity at Mayo. Other than this, what other programs does Mayo have that allows students to get involved in providing healthcare to the socioeconomically disadvantaged?

(Other than international mission trips. I'm sure Mayo does this like most other med schools)
Click to expand...

Mayo consultants voluntarily staff a free clinic in Rochester called the REACH clinic and as students we are all required to help staff the free clinic starting in 2nd year. There is a required number of hours (we participate during mornings off from class), but you can also volunteer to put in more time. All of the patients we see are either uninsured or under-insured. If they need more care than we can provide (imaging,further workups, surgery, etc) they get referred to Mayo Clinic and it's paid for by Mayo through charity care.

Sorry I don't have much time right now to write a longer response but will respond in more detail when I can!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Civelle said:
If you examine the mayo's curriculum, I think they are trying to address that more. I bet students may come to find out why mayo does what it does financially as a result of these kinds of courses. It was something that really interested me because clinicians are sometimes too wrapped up in their specific role in healthcare and not looking at the entire scope of healthcare.
Click to expand...

This is a major part of our curriculum and we've had lectures/q&a sessions with Mayo's current CEO and former CEO (among others) as part of our Science of Healthcare Delivery (SHCD) curriculum

more details on the SHCD curriculum here if you're interested - M.D. Program - Science of Health Care Delivery
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
So on another note, does Mayo have a peer mentoring program? The website says that you're matched with a peer mentor who I 'm assuming is an older med student, but is there a program where you get to work with and mentor kids in the community/underserved population
 
Can I get your guys' opinion on something? For the "Why Mayo" essay, is it better to write deeply about 1-2 things you really enjoy about the school, or talk about 3-4 things you like but not go as much in depth? I know that several people are mentioning Mayo's selectives in their essays, but there are other things about Mayo that i really like besides selectives. So I'm not sure if I should cover all of the things I like about the school, or just a couple. Thanks :)
 
Members don't see this ad :)
medschoolzombie said:
So on another note, does Mayo have a peer mentoring program? The website says that you're matched with a peer mentor who I 'm assuming is an older med student, but is there a program where you get to work with and mentor kids in the community/underserved population
Click to expand...

I remember reading about how Mayo students can go to local high schools to do mentorship stuff and teach lessons about cool medical discoveries. But i do not believe that these schools are in underserved areas.
 
lickerwhicker said:
Can I get your guys' opinion on something? For the "Why Mayo" essay, is it better to write deeply about 1-2 things you really enjoy about the school, or talk about 3-4 things you like but not go as much in depth? I know that several people are mentioning Mayo's selectives in their essays, but there are other things about Mayo that i really like besides selectives. So I'm not sure if I should cover all of the things I like about the school, or just a couple. Thanks :)
Click to expand...

I thought about it this way.
What motivates me to become a physician?
In my case, it's my experiences as a patient.
So, my goal as a physician is to do things that I experienced as especially helpful.
My essay focused on how Mayo will help me become this physician I want to become.

Think about your motivation.
If you have one thing from Mayo you really can connect with and think it will prepare you, write about that.
If there are multiple things, then write about those.
I don't think it has anything to do with how many things you "need" to include.
It's more about which of them are important to you and you communicating the important thing(s) to adcom.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
EDIT: I called Mayo and it sounds like it does not put you at a disadvantage.

Hello everyone, since the application says: "Applicants who select the Only or First Choice options above will receive priority consideration for the MN/FL 2+2 Program," does that mean that if we select Only or First Choice, we are at a disadvantage for the regular MN program?
Thank you very much!
 
Last edited:
thenucleusaccumbens said:
Hey all, I'm a current Mayo med student (Rochester, MN campus) and I'm happy to answer any questions about my experience as a student here, the application process, etc. I posted something similar in the thread from last year and thought it would be helpful to share it in the current thread for those applying this cycle. I've edited some stuff out that's no longer relevant. Good luck to everyone applying!

Relevant resources you might find helpful/enjoy:

Meet Mayo Med (Student-run blog) - New Yorkers move to Rochester, Minnesota
Student Review of Mayo Clinic College of Medicine - Student Review: Mayo Clinic College of Medicine - Prospective Doctor
Med school's instagram account - Mayo Clinic School of Medicine (@mayoclinicsom) • Instagram photos and videos
Info on Selectives (unique aspect of Mayo's curriculum):
Selectives - M.D. Program - Mayo Clinic
Student Reflections on Selectives - M.D. Program - Mayo Clinic
another Mayo med student blog (with more posts about selectives) - All blog posts
Sharing Mayo Clinic blog - The Liver Transplant a Hurricane Couldn't Stop

I would also like to add that in my experience Mayo’s admissions process is very holistic. If the Mayo Clinic’s mission and values resonate with you (see: Mayo Clinic Value Statements - About Us - Mayo Clinic) and if you think you’d be a good fit, then you should apply. Try not to be discouraged if you don’t have a 3.9 GPA. Mayo was my dream school for years, yet I almost didn’t apply because I thought it was too much of a “reach school”. As I found, Mayo looks at so much more than just numbers. They are truly looking at the entire package to see if you will be a good fit.

Also keep in mind that although the class size is small, Mayo has expanded and you can now apply to the Minnesota campus and/or the Arizona campus.

More details here: Campus Locations - M.D. Program - Mayo Clinic
Phoenix and Scottsdale, Arizona - M.D. Program - Mayo Clinic

This information was originally compiled and posted by earf in the 2014 thread and I found it very helpful!
Click to expand...

Hello, I'm still debating on whether or not to apply to the MN/FL 2+2 Track. Do you know of any benefits of applying to this track? From what I have found online, I can see that the Jacksonville campus has a smaller class size, great weather and recreation opps, and great research. But I don't necessarily prefer the FL campus to MN, and I don't know for sure if choosing the FL track would put me at a disadvantage for MN.
Thank you so much!
 
Skier Girl said:
Hello, I'm still debating on whether or not to apply to the MN/FL 2+2 Track. Do you know of any benefits of applying to this track? From what I have found online, I can see that the Jacksonville campus has a smaller class size, great weather and recreation opps, and great research. But I don't necessarily prefer the FL campus to MN, and I don't know for sure if choosing the FL track would put me at a disadvantage for MN.
Thank you so much!
Click to expand...

If you aren't sure, then leave a space open for us native Floridians


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Hey guys... first time on this thread and had to read through 3 pages of political debate to get here... I gotta say, though, I'm really impressed by the level of interest and research put into these statements. I feel like the majority of premed students I know would say "Oh, that sucks, but I really want to get in sooooo..."

Anywho, I'm here because I'm above the 75th percentile for mcat and I've heard nothing from either campus even though most others seemed to receive their secondaries weeks ago. Anyone in the same boat?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
BahnMiOrBanhYou said:
Hey guys... first time on this thread and had to read through 3 pages of political debate to get here... I gotta say, though, I'm really impressed by the level of interest and research put into these statements. I feel like the majority of premed students I know would say "Oh, that sucks, but I really want to get in sooooo..."

Anywho, I'm here because I'm above the 75th percentile for mcat and I've heard nothing from either campus even though most others seemed to receive their secondaries weeks ago. Anyone in the same boat?
Click to expand...

Me. I added them last weekend with LM 75 and haven't heard anything :(
 
BahnMiOrBanhYou said:
Hey guys... first time on this thread and had to read through 3 pages of political debate to get here... I gotta say, though, I'm really impressed by the level of interest and research put into these statements. I feel like the majority of premed students I know would say "Oh, that sucks, but I really want to get in sooooo..."

Anywho, I'm here because I'm above the 75th percentile for mcat and I've heard nothing from either campus even though most others seemed to receive their secondaries weeks ago. Anyone in the same boat?
Click to expand...

Same! Verified since 6/9 and nothing from either campus despite MCAT >75th percentile and LM 75...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
begoood95 said:
You seem to be rather brash in many of your posts; you should know that the medical field is complex, and there are economical, ethical, moral, cultural, and many other variables at play here. Not everything is black and white, and your positively-sure statement that "Medicaid patients are second class citizens at Mayo" is simply not true. 50% of their patients are medicaid/medicare. There are costs that they need to cover, or else they would not be able to do all their charity work. Need is still the number one consideration when seeing patients at Mayo. I understand your criticism, but you should also understand the complexity of healthcare—especially at an institution such as Mayo.
Click to expand...

This is spot on. Medicaid and medicare patients get amazing care at Mayo and make up a good chuck of the patient population, but the reality is that Mayo needs a certain percentage of patients with private insurance to keep the lights on. It's a non-profit hospital system and needs to be sustainable. An ortho surgeon explained it to me this way - he said that for every hip replacement he does, if the insurance is medicaid or medicare, they won't even reimburse enough for the cost of the prosthetic alone (forget about all the other surgical and hospital costs). Another person I know at Mayo primarily works with medicaid patients who are getting surgery and has told me they don't get reimbursed anywhere near the actual cost of the surgery. They lose a lot of money and it would absolutely not be sustainable if not for patients with better insurance coverage or wealthy patients who pay out of pocket, who essentially make it possible for Mayo to provide the charity care that they do.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
thenucleusaccumbens said:
This is spot on. Medicaid and medicare patients get amazing care at Mayo and make up a good chuck of the patient population, but the reality is that Mayo needs a certain percentage of patients with private insurance to keep the lights on. It's a non-profit hospital system and needs to be sustainable. An ortho surgeon explained it to me this way - he said that for every hip replacement he does, if the insurance is medicaid or medicare, they won't even reimburse enough for the cost of the prosthetic alone (forget about all the other surgical and hospital costs). Another person I know at Mayo primarily works with medicaid patients who are getting surgery and has told me they don't get reimbursed anywhere near the actual cost of the surgery. They lose a lot of money and it would absolutely not be sustainable if not for patients with better insurance coverage or wealthy patients who pay out of pocket, who essentially make it possible for Mayo to provide the charity care that they do.
Click to expand...

Yep. And once again, no one argued against this. I don't mean to be rude but I think you guys are arguing a separate point. No one is asserting that finances did not put them in this position.
 
BlackOrthoSurg said:
I have been reading through your back and forth and would just add this - I am equally shocked about the Medicaid thing, and it does take a little bit of shine off Mayo in my eyes. But honestly, the CEO was just being straightforward about something a lot of hospital systems do. If you read the article, it mentioned that their unreimbursed costs grew by 70% in four years. That is unsustainable for any organization. If they are going to maintain their large charity care, as begood95 said it is only reasonable that they get more people that actually pay full costs. Medicaid patients still make up more than 50% of the total patients they see, but no large hospital system can survive on mainly medicaid/medicare patients.
Click to expand...

Exactly and as you mention, this is also not an issue unique to Mayo. This is a memo put out by Harvard's hospital, Brigham and Women's Hospital, which basically says the same thing. Brigham and Women's has received media scrutiny in the past for having to cut a lot of jobs because of major financial issues they are facing.
http://www.brighamandwomens.org/About_BWH/publicaffairs/news/FinancialOverviewMedia.pdf

"What are the pressures on BWH? Year over year, our revenues are going up at a rate of 1% while BWH’s expenses are going up at a 4% rate. This is because the state and payers are holding down payments for health care (Medicare and Medicaid increases year over year are zero, commercial payers are less than 2%), while the costs of delivering healthcare continue to rise at a much higher rate (implants, devices, cancer drugs, other specialized pharmaceuticals, medical supplies, labor). BWH is a higher cost hospital and there is a great deal of pressure to control costs The percentage of Medicare and Medicaid patients at BWH is growing, and Medicare and Medicaid pay below actual cost for patient care."
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
so no LOR requests yet for anyone?
 
Am I correct to appreciate Mayo for its equally strong clinical research and patient care? Do they not want to hear research when discussing "why mayo?"
 
any advice against using the same essays for the AZ campus as the MN campus
 
Secondary received this morning, primary verified last Thursday

I hadn't checked this thread at all up until today so I was thinking "wow I received a secondary I must really be in the running now!" :oops: ........


ScreenName23 said:
So here's a really specific question...anyone out there receive a secondary with either
b) multiple MCATS with one that falls below their cutoff and one that is well above it?
Click to expand...

I was in your situation with the below and above 75th MCAT scores and received a secondary, FWIW
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
pewpew95 said:
Secondary received this morning, primary verified last Thursday

I hadn't checked this thread at all up until today so I was thinking "wow I received a secondary I must really be in the running now!" :oops: ........




I was in your situation with the below and above 75th MCAT scores and received a secondary, FWIW
Click to expand...

Also received secondaries for both schools this morning!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Got requests for secondaries from both schools this morning even though I submitted to AZ only in the last week or two. Has anyone received an invite for interview yet?
 
Got secondaries from both schools today, guess they sent out a bunch this morning! Good luck everyone!!!
 
sboardclark said:
Am I correct to appreciate Mayo for its equally strong clinical research and patient care? Do they not want to hear research when discussing "why mayo?"
Click to expand...
I feel like discussing research is a good idea since it is so important to them.
 
Pharaoh95 said:
+1
Click to expand...
I am going to use the same essay with some very minor changes for both schools since they have the same curriculum and philosophy. Just their location and research opps seem to differ.
 
Are there any opportunities for medical students to teach or mentor the undeserved? I can't find anything online. The service opportunities they show are very broad and nonspecific
 
Does anyone know if it is important to make the same choice for the Florida program on both the MN and AZ applications? Like would it be bad to mark first choice on one app and no choice on another?
Thank you!!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread

Similar threads

wysdoc
2022-2023 Mayo Clinic - Arizona
2 3 4 5 6
Replies
275
Views
62K
totalcorruption
T
wysdoc
2022-2023 Mayo Clinic - Minnesota (Alix)
8 9 10 11 12
Replies
588
Views
134K
Macrobe
M
wysdoc
2021-2022 Mayo Clinic, Arizona
2 3 4
Replies
173
Views
71K
ResortCasual
ResortCasual
wysdoc
2021-2022 Mayo Clinic, Rochester (Alix)
12 13 14 15 16
Replies
756
Views
196K
unknownmedboi
U
Lawpy
2018-2019 Mayo Clinic School of Medicine
16 17 18 19 20
Replies
965
Views
254K
laurelt15
laurelt15
Top