Elizabeth Raine Auction

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Should "Elizabeth Raine" be dismissed from medical school for selling her virginity?


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prostitution and uncircumsized penises are an abomination. i don't care if she is dismissed or not.

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As a matter of fact, yes, because EVERYTHING can be considered unprofessional behavior. Five minutes late to lecture, dismissed for unprofessional behavior. Forget to turn your ringer off and it rings, dismissed for unprofessional behavior. Everything is unprofessional if the school wants to look at it that way. But I guess it's a privilege to be dismissed, so no worries.

You're continuously and purposefully being obtuse here. Either that, or you legitimately don't understand why an organization would find "publicizing prostitution" to be significantly more damaging to its reputation than "being 5 minutes late to lecture."

Which is it?
 
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Again, your statement says AFTER THEY WARNED YOU. And losing a retail job isn't the same as being kicked out of med school. Once you're out of med school, you can forget about ever becoming a doctor. The punishment doesn't fit the (legal) crime. Oh and by the way, she didn't bring negative attention to her school because no one knows what school she goes to. Quit trying to make up crap to make your point.

*Sigh* I can tell that you are of the mindset that everything needs to be told for you word for word. Ok, here you go: A job can say when you're hired that you will be fired on the spot for drinking on the job. There. Now there is no warning. Does that help you understand?

As a matter of fact, yes, because EVERYTHING can be considered unprofessional behavior. Five minutes late to lecture, dismissed for unprofessional behavior. Forget to turn your ringer off and it rings, dismissed for unprofessional behavior. Everything is unprofessional if the school wants to look at it that way. But I guess it's a privilege to be dismissed, so no worries.

Some schools are more strict than others. Go to the one you think you can handle for the next 4 years. We have options to apply to which schools we want to go to, and we can learn ahead of time what rules they enforce.
 
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prostitution and uncircumsized penises are an abomination. i don't care if she is dismissed or not.

You forgot shellfish. That being said, I love me some abominations. I'm a fan of most of them, in fact
 
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If all you can come up with is calling me naive simply because you don't agree with me, you can't get butthurt if I find it humorous.

Very well, let's see if I can 'come up' with anything else.

When your 18 year-old daughter starts selling her body for cash, don't get upset
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So because you don't like something, it should be illegal? That is some rigorous logic right there.

I'm not saying she doesn't have the "right" to do it. She's a grown woman and whoever is bidding on her is a grown man (presumably). The reason why I jumped in was because I asked Nontrad to place himself in a theoretical situation where his daughter was doing this same thing or similar things (selling yourself for money in some way, shape, or form), and asked how he would feel about that provided the theoretical daughter felt empowered by doing these acts.
Once again, argumentum ad passiones. You're on a roll.

...this girl was clearly brilliant and supposedly good looking, and had her entire present life taken care of for her. Her life was set. But she wanted more...

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Also, ' had her entire present life taken care of for her'. So she had nothing at all to do with it?

She was willing to defy the very school that gave her an opportunity people would do anything to have. That says a lot about her true character.
I'm of the opinion that if you think people would 'do anything' to get into medical school, that speaks to your character, not hers.

As humans, they OWN their school.
just...lol

Why should they have to tolerate behavior they find repulsive?
Where have they stated that they find it repulsive. Please stop your inane conjecture.

How about a very un-extreme comparison
wow

"We don't care about your money. We can fill your spot with someone who will represent us how we want."
That's not quite how it works here in grown-up land.

It's a service she is receiving through money, but they can terminate the exchange for unprofessional reasons.
I'll let unprofessional reasons slide. Once again, here in grown-up land we have these things we call contracts, and one party can't just stand up and say "unprofessional reasons", and renege on their part of the deal. With the money she stood to gain, I'd think she hired a competent attorney who could ensure that this in no way violated the School's ethics code.

So because I was speaking of the right of a school to make a decision, I don't know what the word means
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You don't.

Uh, no. And really, every quote I have is of you making a snarky comment because you have nothing intelligible to say.
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. ...aaaand there's another word you don't know the meaning of. You seem to be making a habit of using words you don't quite understand.

EDIT: Or another simple comparison: Employers use Facebook before hiring an applicant to get a possible idea of who they are outside of work. In some instances, they come across applicants as wild partiers, promiscuous, etc. Employer hasevery right to deny the applicant a position at his company based on what he found. Even though the applicant didnothing illegal in those pictures, itdoes not matter. You may not like it, but again,it doesn't matter what you like or don't like. It's their choice, not yours or anyone else's.
Once again, you seem to have some trouble grasping the concept of a contract. When someone hasn't hired you yet, a contract isn't in effect.

By publicly displaying yourself
Where has she displayed herself publicly?

school's name will get splayed all over the place.
lol

And again, it's the school's right to dismiss her for flaunting herself the way she did.
There we go again, using words we don't quite understand.

She has it coming.
Based upon?

And misrepresentation can be deemed as unprofessional. I'm not saying this for my own health
What? Who did she misrepresent?

it's a slippery slope
FINALLY, something at which you can claim proficiency!

There may be a "contract" but there are also Honor Codes, Codes of Conduct, etc. We pay them, we are given theprivilegeto follow their rules and pass their classes to get a piece of paper saying we did a good job.
Damnit! We're back...

the simplest common sense rules of all: Don't be a prostitute because it's illegal here in the states.
heh

It stands to reason that she will have trouble down the line of respecting others, especially ones in authority. That's why they don't tolerate this behavior.
haha. As a prostitute, I'd imagine she'd become quite proficient at submitting to authority.

They are trying to breed future doctors who are in line with their mission and beliefs.
BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm trying to not lose my **** here. This is all SFW, since I don't want to violate ToS. I have a lot of choicer stuff and if you still want to tango, take it to the den, and it would be my great pleasure to oblige.
 
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As a matter of fact, yes, because EVERYTHING can be considered unprofessional behavior. Five minutes late to lecture, dismissed for unprofessional behavior. Forget to turn your ringer off and it rings, dismissed for unprofessional behavior. Everything is unprofessional if the school wants to look at it that way. But I guess it's a privilege to be dismissed, so no worries.
Like I said, I am well aware that medical schools abuse this and label anything as unprofessional, even valid criticism of the school from their students on a variety of things. I agree it's used sometimes to shut med students up. I agree with you. What I am saying is that Elizabeth Raines gave their side a lot of ammo on lapses of medical student professionalism, justifying what they are doing.

http://meded.ucsf.edu/ume/physicianship-evaluation-forms-and-policies

And yes, as someone who was once in the corporate world as you were, you should know that being late to things is unprofessional. If you think it's not, I can't wait till you get yourself chewed out by a Surgery resident or an OB-Gyn resident for being late to rounds, when they won't be as "nice" as your PhD professor.
 
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I'm glad I could make up a good part of your evening.

Ok, I did read some of your replies. They don't really add anything substantial though, so... hope it didn't take up too much of your time.
 
I'm glad I could make up a good part of your evening.

aww...giving up already?

That took all of 10 minutes to put together. Like I said, take it to the den, and we can start having some REAL fun!

Me love you long time...
 
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aww...giving up already?

That took all of 10 minutes to put together. Like I said, take it to the den, and we can start having some REAL fun!

Me love you long time...

I appreciate the offer! The conversation is already here, though. I guess you need another forum in order to get on a more debased level to "get me." If that's where all the fun is, by all means, go.

I did read a few of your "responses" though. Nothing that anyone would say in a normal discussion, so there is no point in replying.
 
I appreciate the offer! The conversation is already here, though. I guess you need another forum in order to get on a more debased level to "get me."
I already 'got' you. I cannot fully express the depth of how strongly I feel about you with the vocabulary I'm limited to in this sub-forum. You underestimate yourself. I could not possibly debase you more than you have done yourself.

I did read a few of your "responses" though. Nothing that anyone would say in a discussion, so there is no point in replying.

hehehahahaHAHAHAHAMWHAAHHAHAHAHAAHAHA.
 
I already 'got' you. I cannot fully express the depth of how strongly I feel about you with the vocabulary I'm limited to in this sub-forum. You underestimate yourself. I could not possibly debase you more than you have done yourself.

hehehahahaHAHAHAHAMWHAAHHAHAHAHAAHAHA.

Cool. Well, keep going off topic. Maybe you'll get the mods to close it so you don't have to have so many feels.
 
Cool. Well, keep going off topic. Maybe you'll get the mods to close it so you don't have to have so many feels.

Aww, trying to hide behind some skirts, are we? You seemed quite invested in this thread before you chose to call me out. Curious that you'd now like it to be locked. What's the matter? Grown-up land isn't quite what you'd imagined?
 
Ok, but I'm only doing this to make you happy.

Very well, let's see if I can 'come up' with anything else.

So because you don't like something, it should be illegal? That is some rigorous logic right there.

Didn't say it's not because I don't like something. I said if Nontrad didn't like something his hypothetical daughter did that he thinks is OK now, to not get upset.

Once again, argumentum ad passiones. You're on a roll.

I guess asking hypothetical questions are forbidden. Noted.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Also, ' had her entire present life taken care of for her'. So she had nothing at all to do with it?

She had nothing at all to do with it?

I'm of the opinion that if you think people would 'do anything' to get into medical school, that speaks to your character, not hers.

If you don't understand the expression "do anything" when referring to a goal, sorry.

just...lol

Lol?

Where have they stated that they find it repulsive. Please stop your inane conjecture.

You're right. They wouldn't find prostitution repulsive. Shame on me for thinking otherwise.


FTFY

That's not quite how it works here in grown-up land.

How does it work? Grown-ups usually follow up after making a statement, so enlighten me.

I'll let unprofessional reasons slide. Once again, here in grown-up land we have these things we call contracts, and one party can't just stand up and say "unprofessional reasons", and renege on their part of the deal. With the money she stood to gain, I'd think she hired a competent attorney who could ensure that thic in no way violated the School's ethics code.

I'll quote you: Please stop with your inane conjecture.

Also, it was quoted several times about Cornell's policy of representation as an example. Please refer to it.

You don't.

O...k.

. ...aaaand there's another word you don't know the meaning of. You seem to be making a habit of using words you don't quite understand.

Help me understand, grown-up.

Once again, you seem to have some trouble grasping the concept of a contract. When someone hasn't hired you yet, a contract isn't in effect.

It's an example of the right of whatever institution you belong to, to make rules. Thankfully, we aren't forced to belong to it if we choose otherwise.

Where has she displayed herself publicly?

Internet


Something funny on TV?

There we go again, using words we don't quite understand.

Help me understand, grown-up.

Based upon?

Being a prostitute and flaunting it on the Internet.

What? Who did she misrepresent?

Her school. The one where she has an MD/PhD in.

FINALLY, something at which you can claim proficiency!

Thanks.

Damnit! We're back...

Sorry.


Must be a funny TV show.

haha. As a prostitute, I'd imagine she'd become quite proficient at submitting to authority.

*cue canned laughter*

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Alright, what TV show is this? Sounds hilarious.

I'm trying to not lose my **** here. This is all SFW, since I don't want to violate ToS. I have a lot of choicer stuff and if you still want to tango, take it to the den, and it would be my great pleasure to oblige.

Phew.
 
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You're continuously and purposefully being obtuse here. Either that, or you legitimately don't understand why an organization would find "publicizing prostitution" to be significantly more damaging to its reputation than "being 5 minutes late to lecture."

Which organization is being damaged? Name it specifically. And I love how whenever someone disagrees with anyone else, it's that they're being obtuse. It can't possibly be that they just plain old disagree with them, can it? Nah, they're either being intentionally obtuse or they're a *****. The epitome of arrogance.

Like I said, I am well aware that medical schools abuse this and label anything as unprofessional, even valid criticism of the school from their students on a variety of things. I agree it's used sometimes to shut med students up. I agree with you. What I am saying is that Elizabeth Raines gave their side a lot of ammo on lapses of medical student professionalism, justifying what they are doing.

And I'm agreeing with you that she DID give them ammo, but it still doesn't justify it.

And yes, as someone who was once in the corporate world as you were, you should know that being late to things is unprofessional. If you think it's not, I can't wait till you get yourself chewed out by a Surgery resident or an OB-Gyn resident for being late to rounds, when they won't be as "nice" as your PhD professor.

First of all, do I have to remind you that I've already been through clerkships? Second, when did I say it wasn't unprofessional to be late? I said that being 5 minutes late to a lecture does not justify being dismissed from medical school. But, the way med schools ambiguously write their codes of conduct with that buzz-word "unprofessionalism" someone could use it to justify their position of dismissing students for such things. Don't twist what I said just so you can reply to it.
 
First of all, do I have to remind you that I've already been through clerkships? Second, when did I say it wasn't unprofessional to be late? I said that being 5 minutes late to a lecture does not justify being dismissed from medical school. But, the way med schools ambiguously write their codes of conduct with that buzz-word "unprofessionalism" someone could use it to justify their position of dismissing students for such things. Don't twist what I said just so you can reply to it.
You know perfectly well that medical schools don't kick you out on the first offense, unless it's something egregious. It's when you're repeatedly late (even 5 minutes) after being warned about it that you are eventually kicked out.
 
Very well, let's see if I can 'come up' with anything else.

So because you don't like something, it should be illegal? That is some rigorous logic right there.

Once again, argumentum ad passiones. You're on a roll.



BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Also, ' had her entire present life taken care of for her'. So she had nothing at all to do with it?

I'm of the opinion that if you think people would 'do anything' to get into medical school, that speaks to your character, not hers.

just...lol

Where have they stated that they find it repulsive. Please stop your inane conjecture.

wow

That's not quite how it works here in grown-up land.

I'll let unprofessional reasons slide. Once again, here in grown-up land we have these things we call contracts, and one party can't just stand up and say "unprofessional reasons", and renege on their part of the deal. With the money she stood to gain, I'd think she hired a competent attorney who could ensure that this in no way violated the School's ethics code.



You don't.

. ...aaaand there's another word you don't know the meaning of. You seem to be making a habit of using words you don't quite understand.

Once again, you seem to have some trouble grasping the concept of a contract. When someone hasn't hired you yet, a contract isn't in effect.

Where has she displayed herself publicly?

lol

There we go again, using words we don't quite understand.

Based upon?

What? Who did she misrepresent?

FINALLY, something at which you can claim proficiency!

Damnit! We're back...

heh

haha. As a prostitute, I'd imagine she'd become quite proficient at submitting to authority.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

I'm trying to not lose my **** here. This is all SFW, since I don't want to violate ToS. I have a lot of choicer stuff and if you still want to tango, take it to the den, and it would be my great pleasure to oblige.
burntreat2.jpg
 
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You know perfectly well that medical schools don't kick you out on the first offense, unless it's something egregious. It's when you're repeatedly late (even 5 minutes) after being warned about it that you are eventually kicked out.

See, this is where I could make a comment about you being obtuse. Instead, I'll clarify -- I was saying that by leaving the word unprofessional so ambiguous, it frees a med school to interpret it however they wish. My example was that since technically, being late to class is unprofessional, what's to stop them from dismissing someone for it (even a first offense)? It would be their right to dismiss someone for it, after all, as it falls under the professionalism umbrella. I'm trying to say that's why I despise the word and the ambiguous policies that schools employ.
 
See, this is where I could make a comment about you being obtuse. Instead, I'll clarify -- I was saying that by leaving the word unprofessional so ambiguous, it frees a med school to interpret it however they wish. My example was that since technically, being late to class is unprofessional, what's to stop them from dismissing someone for it (even a first offense)? It would be their right to dismiss someone for it, after all, as it falls under the professionalism umbrella. I'm trying to say that's why I despise the word and the ambiguous policies that schools employ.
The reason that most schools don't dismiss someone on the first attempt, unless it's egregious, is bc they have a due process procedure in place. Courts allow great leeway for academic institutions to decide academic actions within their institution. Medical students have sued in the past in court, from being let go from med school, saying they weren't given due process before dismissal, only to have it established in the discovery phase, that they were in fact repeat offenders, and which they met with med school administration numerous times.

If you think that prostitution and being 5 minutes late to a required activity are on the same degree plane of professionalism and should be treated exactly the same by medical school administration, then there is no reasoning with you. And I'm someone that absolutely abhors medical school faculty throwing around the term "unprofessional" willy-nilly and using it against med students who can't defend themselves.

I'll say it again. Medical schools can not go through EVERY POSSIBLE scenario of unprofessionalism in life and document it in a form for you to sign off that you understand like it's a penal code. Medical students are not 5 years old where they have to be told of every single possibility by administrators. There has to be some common sense involved, after all.
 
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I wonder when did med students or docs have that much time to argue over petty things which doesn't even matter .

Take a chill pill and study for step 1 or something.
 
See, this is where I could make a comment about you being obtuse. Instead, I'll clarify -- I was saying that by leaving the word unprofessional so ambiguous, it frees a med school to interpret it however they wish. My example was that since technically, being late to class is unprofessional, what's to stop them from dismissing someone for it (even a first offense)? It would be their right to dismiss someone for it, after all, as it falls under the professionalism umbrella. I'm trying to say that's why I despise the word and the ambiguous policies that schools employ.
You'll do well in medicine. You seem to love set-in-stone bureaucratic rules and procedures. The government will give you plenty of those.

Codes of conduct are often left intentionally vague so that they can be adapted to a wide variety of circumstances as needed, such as unforeseen behaviors students might engage in or changing societal values over time. The inherent vagueness of these documents is an adaptive strength that is frequently utilized in legal papers to ensure that they remain "alive" via a wide range of possible interpretation.
 
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You people are arguing just to argue.
 
I like watching a good internet forum free-for-all as much as the next guy, but this has turned into something akin to 3rd overtime between the two worst teams in the WNBA.

I think it's time to just call this one.
 
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I liked the part where people argue points line by line. saying bahaha in all caps makes you look like a practiced master debator.
 
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Officially outed:

"A source close to Hanna said: 'This auction didn't work, plain and simple. Hanna had to face the fact that maybe her virginity wasn't worth as much as she thought it was.'

Mail Online can also reveal furious professors at her college, the University of Washington, found out about the auction and hauled her in to explain herself.

At that point they will let her know what disciplinary action she will face for sullying the name of the prestigious university.

They have already told her that her ‘immoral’ behavior has put her future career in the medical profession in serious jeopardy.

Since abandoning the auction, Utah-born Hanna, has been keeping a low profile in her shared apartment in the north of Seattle."


Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-backed-auction-virginity.html#ixzz31L3j8ceB
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
 
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I liked the part where people argue points line by line. saying bahaha in all caps makes you look like a practiced master debator.
master debator. hehehe. and 'people'. your passive aggression is cute.

I like watching a good internet forum free-for-all as much as the next guy, but this has turned into something akin to 3rd overtime between the two worst teams in the WNBA.
I think it's time to just call this one.
I agree. This should be taken to the den. And you should show us how it's done, Cap'n.
 
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Officially outed:

"A source close to Hanna said: 'This auction didn't work, plain and simple. Hanna had to face the fact that maybe her virginity wasn't worth as much as she thought it was.'

Mail Online can also reveal furious professors at her college, the University of Washington, found out about the auction and hauled her in to explain herself.

At that point they will let her know what disciplinary action she will face for sullying the name of the prestigious university.

They have already told her that her ‘immoral’ behavior has put her future career in the medical profession in serious jeopardy.

Since abandoning the auction, Utah-born Hanna, has been keeping a low profile in her shared apartment in the north of Seattle."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...y-backed-auction-virginity.html#ixzz31L3j8ceB
Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook
OMG, it really was her!!! "made headlines around the world when she dubbed herself the 'Virgin *****' and said she would sleep with the highest bidder." -- ok so that's why media reports called her that. I'm almost 100% sure she'll now go into a rant about "slut-shaming".

Excerpt:
But despite her claims to have abandoned the auction to concentrate on her schooling, Mail Online can reveal that Hanna hardly received any genuine offers for her virginity.

In fact the, 'winning' bidder refused to go through any kind of vetting process and completely disappeared after he pledged to come up with the cash.

A source close to Hanna said: 'This auction didn't work, plain and simple. Hanna had to face the fact that maybe her virginity wasn't worth as much as she thought it was.'
 
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OMG, it really was her!!! "made headlines around the world when she dubbed herself the 'Virgin *****' and said she would sleep with the highest bidder." -- ok so that's why media reports called her that. I'm almost 100% sure she'll now go into a rant about "slut-shaming".

Excerpt:
But despite her claims to have abandoned the auction to concentrate on her schooling, Mail Online can reveal that Hanna hardly received any genuine offers for her virginity.

In fact the, 'winning' bidder refused to go through any kind of vetting process and completely disappeared after he pledged to come up with the cash.

A source close to Hanna said: 'This auction didn't work, plain and simple. Hanna had to face the fact that maybe her virginity wasn't worth as much as she thought it was.'

She required bidders to deposit $100 into an account, but she should have made it $10,000.
 
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Mail Online can also reveal furious professors at her college, the University of Washington, found out about the auction and hauled her in to explain herself. They have agreed to allow her to take crucial qualifying exams next Friday, but she will have to go in for talks next month. At that point they will let her know what disciplinary action she will face for sullying the name of the prestigious university. They have already told her that her ‘immoral’ behavior has put her future career in the medical profession in serious jeopardy.

And the professionalism hammer comes down.

'She's a really quiet, shy girl and this seems so out of character.'
And after examining Hanna’s personality it seems she had been living a double live. Her fellow students knew her as a shy, studious pupil and the rest of the world knew her alter-ego, the opinionated and provocative Virgin *****, Elizabeth Raine.

Definitely not shocked at this one. What a shame, bc according to the article, she was quite academically successful.
 
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Who in their right mind would do this and not expect consequences? If you're in med school, you'd better play defense with regards to your outward appearance.
 
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Day-um....

Too bad she wasn't doing a PhD in Women's Studies. Would've been great dissertation research.
 
master debator. hehehe. and 'people'. your passive aggression is cute.


I agree. This should be taken to the den. And you should show us how it's done, Cap'n.

Yeah it's called a play on words. Try to figure out what I meant, it's not hard.
 
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Yeah it's called a play on words. Try to figure out what I meant, it's not hard.

giphy.gif

Such wit. Whatever shall I do?
 
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Brilliant post. Now muster up some pics of the gal who'll probably have her own TV series. What a publicity stunt. You're kidding yourselves if you doubt she didn't engineer this charade.
 
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LOL @ the whole " she should be able to do whatever she wants, and receive no punishment for it." Alright, then don't sign your code of conduct agreement with your school and see what happens. The students enter into a contractual agreement with the school. Maybe if they overreact super hard to an extremely minor offense you'd have a case in court(as being a student you're going to lose the in-house appeal 100/100), but you're gonna blow a ton of money/time/effort/probably your grades, when you could have avoided it all and played nice(as in not parade around as the "virgin *****").
 
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And so her identity is revealed and now her actions are perceived to be sullying the reputation of her university.

Can't say I'm surprised. With the power of the internet and social media, a little too much information revealed will open you up like a dam with one too many cracks. I hope things go well for her from here on, but chances are that she might have to turn to something other than medicine if not find some alternate route into it.

I like how she thinks the forecoming actions against her are considered evidence of a paternalistic society repressing/controlling female sexuality. Not that I'm arguing that paternalism exists or not--that's besides my point--but if a guy offered his sexual services on the internet like that, would a school have done differently? I rest my case. :rolleyes:

Or you can be like an MD/PhD I know who did a few low-budget porn flicks in undergrad and mention the occupation on the AMCAS app as something more benign (e.g., rather than "adult film actor", try "entertainer"). He had to mention them because he got taxed on his income.
 
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I like the shy part about her. Her classmates described her as studious , shy girl from whom you can never expect such a stunt.
 
Or you can be like an MD/PhD I know who did a few low-budget porn flicks in undergrad and mention the occupation on the AMCAS app as something more benign (e.g., rather than "adult film actor", try "entertainer"). He had to mention them because he got taxed on his income.

See, all the naysayers to porn may be underestimating a key advantage. It isn't just that you get paid for sex, but that so many other people can enjoy the sex you got paid for. Pornography just feels a lot more philanthropic than prostitution, wouldn't you all agree?
 
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