2021-2022 CA Northstate

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For those of you that are not tracking the situation, we just published an article on the CNUCOM accreditation status:
www.studentdoctor.net

LCME Denies Full Accreditation for CNUCOM - SDN

The Student Doctor Network provides free tools, resources, and advising services to help students become health professionals.
www.studentdoctor.net www.studentdoctor.net

It still retains Provisional Accreditation, but was denied Full Accreditation. The article breaks down the accreditation process and has links to the details from the LCME.
 
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As many of you may still be considering this school, there is currently multiple developments occurring with this medical school (regarding CBS Sacramento investigating the school for possibly hiding their failed accreditation status from the city of Sacramento and a possibility of the medical school shutting down in 2024). It is being discussed more on this thread: California Northstate University College of Medicine(CNUCOM): Avoid this school at all costs!

CBS Sacramento has also reported that CNUCOM has until 2024 to obtain full accreditation status or else they must restart the process (which means shutting down). In addition, CBS Sacramento is also investigating whether CNU failed to inform the city of Sacramento and their city council members of their failed accreditation status March 2021 visit prior to their medical campus being approved.

Here are the sources:
1) Medical School At Center Of Sleep Train Arena Revitalization Plan Is Denied Full Accreditation
2)
 
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Is anyone else getting spammed with the “CHS Pre-Med Post Baccalaureate Presentation” email? I’ve gotten four of the exact same emails from them over the past four days and they are super annoying.
 
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Just got this email from em.
 
Did anyone reply to them yet? I was going to ask if this changes anything for the admissions cycle timeline
 
What's the consensus on attending CNU as a school on probation if you have no other acceptances? Is it ok to decline an acceptance and reapply to other medical schools again?
 
perpetualstress said:
What's the consensus on attending CNU as a school on probation if you have no other acceptances? Is it ok to decline an acceptance and reapply to other medical schools again?
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I don't know about the consensus, but I certainly never would have applied in the first place, given its sketchy history from Day One.

If you matriculate now, given what we all know about their status, you very well risk being totally screwed if their accreditation is pulled before you graduate. Maybe another school will take pity on you and allow you to transfer in, maybe not. No guarantees there, and the odds are that anyone matriculating now will be left stranded, as opposed to people already there who had no disclosure that they would be on probation after failing a final review. I honestly cannot believe any legit school would hold not matriculating at this school under these circumstances against you.

I'll be honest with you. If it were me, under these circumstances, I'd only consider matriculating if they agreed to hold my tuition in escrow until I graduated, with the provision that the money be returned to me if they lose their accreditation and their degree becomes worthless. Of course, they will never agree to this, and that would be my out. Given they were found to be deficient in every area reviewed, it's difficult to see how it ends well, especially because they are disclosing as little as they can get away with, and putting a very rosy spin on what little they do disclose (i.e., if there is a path to full accreditation, neither they nor LCME are sharing it).

I think you should run and thank whoever you pray to all this happened now rather than 6 months from now. Good luck.
 
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KnightDoc said:
I don't know about the consensus, but I certainly never would have applied in the first place, given its sketchy history from Day One.

If you matriculate now, given what we all know about their status, you very well risk being totally screwed if their accreditation is pulled before you graduate. Maybe another school will take pity on you and allow you to transfer in, maybe not. No guarantees there, and the odds are that anyone matriculating now will be left stranded, as opposed to people already there who had no disclosure that they would be on probation after failing a final review. I honestly cannot believe any legit school would hold not matriculating at this school under these circumstances against you.

I'll be honest with you. If it were me, under these circumstances, I'd only consider matriculating if they agreed to hold my tuition in escrow until I graduated, with the provision that the money be returned to me if they lose their accreditation and their degree becomes worthless. Of course, they will never agree to this, and that would be my out. Given they were found to be deficient in every area reviewed, it's difficult to see how it ends well, especially because they are disclosing as little as they can get away with, and putting a very rosy spin on what little they do disclose (i.e., if there is a path to full accreditation, neither they nor LCME are sharing it).

I think you should run and thank whoever you pray to all this happened now rather than 6 months from now. Good luck.
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yea dude its tough cause if Northstate is their only acceptance... then their next cycle better have MASSIVE improvements to whatever issues prevented them from getting in this cycle...

If their stats are decent and theyve been working a clinical job all year and next cycle they'll have 2000 more clinical hours? Then yea maybe it would make sense to turn down Northstate and take another shot.

If their only setback this cycle was that you applied very late (Oct/Nov), then that might also be reason enough to apply again.

But if they have average stats and wont have anything new or significantly different on your app next cycle.... they may wanna go ahead and matriculate lol.

God I wouldnt wish this situation on anybody lol. This is rough
 
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is this school even going to have a full incoming class? lol
 
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JustJackie said:
yea dude its tough cause if Northstate is their only acceptance... then their next cycle better have MASSIVE improvements to whatever issues prevented them from getting in this cycle...

If their stats are decent and theyve been working a clinical job all year and next cycle they'll have 2000 more clinical hours? Then yea maybe it would make sense to turn down Northstate and take another shot.

If their only setback this cycle was that you applied very late (Oct/Nov), then that might also be reason enough to apply again.

But if they have average stats and wont have anything new or significantly different on your app next cycle.... they may wanna go ahead and matriculate lol.

God I wouldnt wish this situation on anybody lol. This is rough
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Yup, but you are conflating two separate things. Whether or not they will be ready to apply next cycle or will need a multi-year makeover is one thing, but the big issue is the risk of enrolling at CNU now, which has nothing to do with their likelihood of success at other schools in future cycles.

The only issue is the likelihood of CNU being allowed to remain open past 2024, and the prospects of landing on your feet if they don't. With no visibility being provided by either the school or LCME, no one outside their closed circle actually has any insight into whether it's all a big misunderstanding that will be resolved over time, or whether LCME is disgusted with these guys and is going to use this as a excuse to shut them down the first chance they get, in order to set an example for every future for-profit that feels a need to put its investors' interests over those of the LCME.

People's heads exploded when this first became a thing a few weeks ago, with a lot of anxiety revolving around what would happen to current students, who, one could argue, are innocent victims. Even though the business model and people behind the school were questionable from Day One, current students who enrolled 1, 2, or 3 years ago had no good faith reason to believe that the school, operating under provisional accreditation, would not receive full accreditation when eligible. No one enrolling now can say that, and I think it's more likely than not that if the school closes in 2024, people enrolling this year and next will be SOL and won't even have a viable lawsuit, since they are receiving the required disclosure that the school is on probation.

Given all this, it's a huge gamble to enroll, regardless of not having any other options. Not being in med school and having all your money is always a better option than not being in med school and owing $200K to a private lender, or having your parents' bank account being $200K short, with nothing to show for it other than a year and half at a defunct medical school.
 
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HopefulPremed. said:
is this school even going to have a full incoming class? lol
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To be honest, until they get the situation resolved, or at least have a clear path to doing so, it is irresponsible of them to even allow people to enroll.

Given how risk averse premeds are in general, I don't think anyone who understood the actual risk would enroll. They are taking people's money in return for a 4-year education they might lose their license to deliver after 2 years.

Believe me, everyone who shows up for classes because they think it's their best option will be absolutely screaming if the school closes before they receive their degree and no one takes them in. And, given the timing, people matriculating now will be in the middle of their second year if the worst comes to pass in 2024.

I'll defer to the experts on this, but I don't think a year and a half in is close enough to graduation for any other school to feel an obligation to take them in. Especially since those people would be enrolling either with their eyes wide open, or their heads wilfully buried in the sand.
 
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KnightDoc said:
Yup, but you are conflating two separate things. Whether or not they will be ready to apply next cycle or will need a multi-year makeover is one thing, but the big issue is the risk of enrolling at CNU now, which has nothing to do with their likelihood of success at other schools in future cycles.

The only issue is the likelihood of CNU being allowed to remain open past 2024, and the prospects of landing on your feet if they don't. With no visibility being provided by either the school or CNU, no one outside their closed circle actually has any insight into whether it's all a big misunderstanding that will be resolved over time, or whether LCME is disgusted with these guys and is going to use this as a excuse to shut them down the first chance they get, in order to set an example for every future for-profit that feels a need to put its investors' interests over those of the LCME.

People's heads exploded when this first became a thing a few weeks ago, with a lot of anxiety revolving around what would happen to current students, who, one could argue, are innocent victims. Even though the business model and people behind the school were questionable from Day One, current students who enrolled 1, 2, or 3 years ago had no good faith reason to believe that the school, operating under provisional accreditation, would not receive full accreditation when eligible. No one enrolling now can say that, and I think it's more likely than not that if the school closes in 2024, people enrolling this year and next will be SOL and won't even have a viable lawsuit, since they are receiving the required disclosure that the school is on probation.

Given all this, it's a huge gamble to enroll, regardless of not having any other options. Not being in med school and having all your money is always a better option than not being in med school and owing $200K to a private lender, or having your parents' bank account being $200K short, with nothing to show for it other than a year and half at a defunct medical school.
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Thank you for your honest advice. I don't mind reapplying (and was preparing to anyway by trying to rectify the gaps I had in my application this cycle), but I do know that it is usually advised not to re-apply if you do get into a med school because apparently you are blacklisted/schools are made aware that you were accepted in a previous cycle and chose not to go.
I just hope that CNUCOM being on probation is considered a legit reason for declining my acceptance by schools if I reapply.
 
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perpetualstress said:
Thank you for your honest advice. I don't mind reapplying (and was preparing to anyway by trying to rectify the gaps I had in my application this cycle), but I do know that it is usually advised not to re-apply if you do get into a med school because apparently you are blacklisted/schools are made aware that you were accepted in a previous cycle and chose not to go.
I just hope that CNUCOM being on probation is considered a legit reason for declining my acceptance by schools if I reapply.
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I am pretty sure you will be totally fine. If you carefully read the posts on the CNU threads made by the respected SDN adcoms, none of them seem to be fans of the school. I honestly cannot see any legit, non-profit school dinging anyone for exercising good judgment and steering clear of this situation, even if it means declining an acceptance and reapplying.

I'm sorry you are in this situation, but the timing could have been so much worse for you. Someone is definitely looking out for you, and I'm sure you are going to be successful and look back at this and be grateful you avoided getting involved with these guys.
 
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Thank you for your insight @KnightDoc, I really appreciate it.
If any adcoms from other med schools come across my post, I would be truly grateful if you could chime in about what would be the best course of action for me.
 
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The nightmare situation where med students are simply 'stranded' when a school closes hasn't really happened at any point in recent history (to my knowledge). When Oral Roberts closed, Loma Linda took in the majority of the displaced students. When Tulane had to evacuate due to Hurricane Katrina, Baylor College of Medicine and other Texas schools took in their students. These situations aren't exactly analogous, but I'm confident that if it were to happen, students at CNUCOM would be able to find spots at other med schools. Of course, there's always a risk. But if it were me, I would have a hard time turning down the A. If you're certain that you can improve your app, then I would strongly consider waiting. Accreditation issues are a valid reason for deferring IMO.
 
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Anyone here a current student at Northstate? Would love to hear your experience, thanks :)
 
perpetualstress said:
What's the consensus on attending CNU as a school on probation if you have no other acceptances? Is it ok to decline an acceptance and reapply to other medical schools again?
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No guarantee but I believe they will pull through with their accreditation. I think LCME wants them to be accredited otherwise they would have pulled accreditation rather than extending it. Similar to other regulatory boards what they do is that they outline what the med school needs to do more of and it behooves the med school to follow the outline they are being given and they will eventually be able to do it. There’s a huge incentive for the medical school to get accredited and I’m sure they will do whatever is in their power to comply with whatever it was LCME wants them to do. This school has been matching well with residency programs. Watch the match which will be this coming Friday. Some students I k ow who are in the match have already matched in this school and they will find out where they matched this Friday. Scramble or SOAP day was this past Monday and all the students I know who attend this school has a residency program who admitted them and they where find out this Friday during Match Day. If you got accepted here, you should consider taking the acceptance unless you have a plan in what you will do during your gap year: e.g. another year of research and/or a year of Post Bac and/or a year of clinical work. Good luck to you.
 
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anVuLXNpqw said:
How can we watch the CNU match? Is there a public livestream? Not a current CNU student or applicant but I would like to watch.
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A lot of schools will live-stream their match if it’s being done virtual. It’s typically a big event for medical schools. Maybe check their website.
 
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anVuLXNpqw said:
How can we watch the CNU match? Is there a public livestream? Not a current CNU student or applicant but I would like to watch.
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Try going on YouTube during Match Day and look for “CNU College of Medicine” and a link might show up. They’ll probably start around 8:30 am as the “reveal” is at 9am all over the country.
 
CG2150 said:
Try going on YouTube during Match Day and look for “CNU College of Medicine” and a link might show up. They’ll probably start around 8:30 am as the “reveal” is at 9am all over the country.
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Yeah, don't hold your breath. Schools that do that can be found through a Google search, with links to prior years' live streams. No such thing for these guys although, to their credit, they do post matches on their website, so there's that.

I honestly don't understand the fascination with this though. Whatever is going on with accreditation is NOT a reflection on current students, and should not impact their matches at all. OTOH, even if they all match great, how does that mitigate the fact that the school might not be accredited in 2 years, and why would anyone concerned about that allow a good Match Day tomorrow to influence their decision?
 
Current student here if any admitted students have some questions about the school.
 
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california916 said:
Current student here if any admitted students have some questions about the school.
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Hi there! I'm not an admitted student but I did receive an ii. I was wondering how you think this accreditation with probation will play out for future medical students at this school. Do you think it will affect the quality of education or the experience future students will receive? Do you think it will hurt future residency match rates? Do you currently feel the impact of this? Also, I'm not sure I'm entirely clear on why the school was moved to a probationary status. Any insight is truly appreciated! Thank you so so so much! :)
 
I mean I wish I could predict the future. That said, I don't think the writing is on the wall for losing accreditation. I don't think LCME would have allowed an incoming class if it planned to shutter the school in two years.

Regarding why we went on probation, my personal theory is that LCME needs to retain its legitimacy as an accreditation body. This school is unique in a negative way (I think that most everyone agrees that no healthcare or educational institutions should ever be incorporated as for-profit). COCA (on the D.O. side) is getting slammed for its laissez-faire stance on this. I think the LCME is using this situation as a warning to any would-be investors waiting to jump in with similar models should CNU be successful. Regarding CNU specifically, the probation does suck, but I don't see a rational reason why LCME would allow this process to drag on for 10 years if they had no intention to ever fully accredit the school. Why would they continue to admit students as well at this point too?

This school has been going through accreditation issues since it started but that has never impacted the education or experience of the students. I am very happy with the education I'm receiving, as are most of my classmates. This is obviously the only school I've attended but I talk with friends at other programs and quite often find myself glad I'm not having to deal with some of the stuff they go through. Preclinical years have organ-system blocks, exclusively NBME exams, and there's not a lot of the mandatory b.s. that some schools have which distracts you from learning medicine. Research projects are built into the curriculum and there are plenty of extra research opportunities for the students that want them. Clinical rotations are for the most part good albeit the similar gripes from students that all orphan schools have. Any issues there will dissipate once we have a home program fully built-up. These aren't major issues by any means, it just sucks having to travel for rotations and all that comes with that. CNU has proved that it provides a solid medical education. The students do well on their boards and the residency matches get better year after year.

I don't want to say too much about the behind-the-scenes of accreditation because any information about that gets torn to shreds and quite often misconstrued on SDN. Reading some of the comments on this site will make you believe this school is a dumpster fire waiting to blow at any moment. I really have no idea where some people are getting the information for the claims they're making. I will say that there are students on the committees surrounding accreditation and during hearings/visits with LCME that relay information back to the student body. Unless there's some back alley conspiracy with every one of these students and admin to hide the truth (come on, now) it's not as bad as SDN would make you believe. There are some final things CNU has to fix (obviously) and the school has already taken steps to address them.
 
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@california916 Thank you so very much for the detailed and insightful response. I appreciate your time and commitment to helping us gain a better understanding regarding the status and telling us about your personal experience there. Looking forward to learning even more about the school during my interview day. Thanks again! :)
 
california916 said:
I mean I wish I could predict the future. That said, I don't think the writing is on the wall for losing accreditation. I don't think LCME would have allowed an incoming class if it planned to shutter the school in two years.

Regarding why we went on probation, my personal theory is that LCME needs to retain its legitimacy as an accreditation body. This school is unique in a negative way (I think that most everyone agrees that no healthcare or educational institutions should ever be incorporated as for-profit). COCA (on the D.O. side) is getting slammed for its laissez-faire stance on this. I think the LCME is using this situation as a warning to any would-be investors waiting to jump in with similar models should CNU be successful. Regarding CNU specifically, the probation does suck, but I don't see a rational reason why LCME would allow this process to drag on for 10 years if they had no intention to ever fully accredit the school. Why would they continue to admit students as well at this point too?

This school has been going through accreditation issues since it started but that has never impacted the education or experience of the students. I am very happy with the education I'm receiving, as are most of my classmates. This is obviously the only school I've attended but I talk with friends at other programs and quite often find myself glad I'm not having to deal with some of the stuff they go through. Preclinical years have organ-system blocks, exclusively NBME exams, and there's not a lot of the mandatory b.s. that some schools have which distracts you from learning medicine. Research projects are built into the curriculum and there are plenty of extra research opportunities for the students that want them. Clinical rotations are for the most part good albeit the similar gripes from students that all orphan schools have. Any issues there will dissipate once we have a home program fully built-up. These aren't major issues by any means, it just sucks having to travel for rotations and all that comes with that. CNU has proved that it provides a solid medical education. The students do well on their boards and the residency matches get better year after year.

I don't want to say too much about the behind-the-scenes of accreditation because any information about that gets torn to shreds and quite often misconstrued on SDN. Reading some of the comments on this site will make you believe this school is a dumpster fire waiting to blow at any moment. I really have no idea where some people are getting the information for the claims they're making. I will say that there are students on the committees surrounding accreditation and during hearings/visits with LCME that relay information back to the student body. Unless there's some back alley conspiracy with every one of these students and admin to hide the truth (come on, now) it's not as bad as SDN would make you believe. There are some final things CNU has to fix (obviously) and the school has already taken steps to address them.
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Do you know what the status of the new hospital/medical center is? I have read that city council denied the first proposal. But I have also heard that they have found a new location for development.
 
sunnyv said:
Do you know what the status of the new hospital/medical center is? I have read that city council denied the first proposal. But I have also heard that they have found a new location for development.
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Sac city council approved the new location in Natomas where the old King’s basketball stadium is. Demolition of the stadium is scheduled to be completed by September, grading and ground-breaking scheduled for October, with a final completion date by late 2025. The med school is going to be integrated into the new hospital taking up a large part of the first floor with dorms in nearby buildings.
 
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I recently interviewed at CNU and I wanted to give my input from what I learned during the day. I won't talk the interview itself since I don't want to get sued somehow, but I did speak with a faculty member during my interview that was surprisingly honest about the school and the circumstances surrounding it.

On accreditation: They said that most of the issues that needed to be resolved were "procedural" and "on-paper" and that they were fairly confident that the issues would be resolved within two years. They said that CNU hired a new dean a month ago that has already outlined a plan internally for addressing LCMEs issues. They made another point of saying that because the school is for-profit, LCME puts the school under stricter scrutiny, meaning that CNU has to pass a higher standard than non-profit schools to get full accreditation.
HOWEVER, they made a point of saying that they could not in good faith guarantee that the school will get full accreditation in time. They stated that there are a couple of scenarios that could pan out. Either they appeal for an extension and get it, or students would finish their current year and have to find another school to accept them. They said that they have met with LCME members and that they seemed to be reasonable people and that in this worst case scenario, the onus would be on LCME and other accredited schools to accept the stranded students.

On the school being for profit: They said that the for profit nature of the school has no impact on the curriculum, preclinical or clinical and that most of the differences are in administration. Of course, you have to take all of this with a gain of salt since they have a vested interest in the school.

Pros of CNU: They said that the biggest strength of the school is its preclinical curriculum. Since most of the professors are retired docs, they are committed to student success and not research or other work in the background. They made a point of saying that students and professors are constantly in contact with one another and CNU is always open to student feedback on the curriculum. Their biggest piece of evidence was Step scores in previous years.

Cons of CNU: They said the biggest con of the school is that it does not have its own university hospital. Clerkship is "out sourced" to surrounding hospitals and clinics, meaning that clerkship isn't standardized. Additionally, students have to sometimes go far from CNU in socal and norcal to find rotations (How big of an issue this is is dependent on your ties to the state). They made a point of saying that they are in constant contact with surrounding institutions to maintain partnerships. While there is the hospital that is being built rn, they said that they doubt the school will be built in time for the class of 2026 to do clerkships there given how often these types of large construction projects are delayed. They said that despite this, CNUs match results are still pretty good (The match results have been released so you can judge this for yourself).
Another con is research. While there is a "scholarly project" that is required in the preclinical years, most students are not doing wet lab work, but case studies and lit review papers. They do have a lab on campus, but if students do wet-lab research, it is usually outside of the college of medicine.

My opinion: Judging from what I know and have seen about this school, I would say that this school was designed from the ground up to address a single niche. That niche is to admit students with borderline stats that have had difficulty getting in elsewhere, particularly California ORM students that are planning on doing primary care and staying in California. I made this judgement given how late in the cycle they do interviews and the student body/interviewees that I have seen. I'm sure that most people have already made up their mind about this school, but I still have not made up my mind if I would want to go to this school. I would only ever outright recommend this school if you are a California resident that has not been accepted anywhere else and you are not willing to take a gap year to improve your application.
 
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throwawaymedstudent said:
They made another point of saying that because the school is for-profit, LCME puts the school under stricter scrutiny, meaning that CNU has to pass a higher standard than non-profit schools to get full accreditation.
HOWEVER, they made a point of saying that they could not in good faith guarantee that the school will get full accreditation in time. They stated that there are a couple of scenarios that could pan out. Either they appeal for an extension and get it, or students would finish their current year and have to find another school to accept them. They said that they have met with LCME members and that they seemed to be reasonable people and that in this worst case scenario, the onus would be on LCME and other accredited schools to accept the stranded students.
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Thanks for the post. It is very thoughtful and balanced.

The only things I would take issue with are the defensive point about LCME holding them to a higher standard because they are for-profit. I'd have asked for specific examples of this, because it sounds like total BS to me. Why would LCME want to hold them to a higher standard after provisionally approving them? Because they want them to fail? If that's the case, then just how reasonable are they going to be in granting full approval? To me, it sounds like a for-profit finds it difficult to meet the standards due to its need to generate a return for its investors, as opposed to a higher standard actually being applied to them.

Similarly, it sounds like total BS that the "onus" will be on anyone other than the school and anyone who enrolls under this cloud if accreditation is yanked prior to graduation. If this school closes in a few years, just what mechanism involving LCME and other schools does this faculty imagine would be in place to guarantee people who enroll will be able to transfer?

If a guarantee does not come in writing from LCME, as opposed to a supposition regarding an "onus" based on a meeting with LCME, it's BS. And, believe me, LCME would never, and could never, make such a guarantee, since it has no ability to force any school to accept anyone as a transfer. If only the current students begging schools like @gyngyn's to allow them to transfer in, NOW, were as sanguine about the ability to transfer later, if necessary, as this person seemingly is in trying to sell the school to you. Good luck!!!
 
medschoolapplicantanon said:
are they done giving out ii's? haven't heard anything
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When I interviewed last Friday, they said they were halfway through their interview cycle. So they are probably still giving out interviews. They said that they interview about 240 people, with around 30 people during each interview day, so about 4 more groups of interviewees left. Note that most of the interviewees were from California, with a lot of the students being from CNU's College of Science (undergrad) or one of CNU's masters programs.
 
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I just received an II this morning. I'm thinking of declining given their reputation.
 
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HopefulPremed. said:
i would unless you have no A's
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And I'd rather be a reapplicant next year than risk having to scramble looking for a transfer out of this school in a few years if the worst case scenario becomes reality and they are forced to close. If that actually happens (I have no insight one way or the other, but it certainly is a >0 risk), there is no guarantee than anyone, let alone everyone, will successfully find a new home and won't be forced to begin the journey all over again. YMMV.

Not choosing this school, while the uncertainty surrounding accreditation is hanging over its head, over any other MD (or reputable DO) program in the country is the biggest no brainer in the med school admissions world right now. So, yeah, not wasting everyone's time by accepting an II when you hold another A should go without saying.
 
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wanttobeamd22 said:
I just received an II this morning. I'm thinking of declining given their reputation.
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If you have other choices then it would be smart to go with those choices. However it doesn’t hurt to interview and see if you can get an acceptance. Then if you get an acceptances then you can decide.
 
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CG2150 said:
If you have other choices then it would be smart to go with those choices. However it doesn’t hurt to interview and see if you can get an acceptance. Then if you get an acceptances then you can decide.
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I wouldn't do this if you have doubts about attending. It will be a major red flag if someone got accepted but decided to reapply. If you get accepted and no have other acceptance, you should be fully prepared to attend.
 
mmm! said:
Do schools have any way of knowing this?
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Yes. Some ask on their secondaries. You then certify that everything in your secondary is true and complete. You never know who knows who, or how things could come out, but if you lie on your application and get discovered, it's a leading indicator that you will lie in the future when you feel the need, and that's a big deal to the gatekeepers to the profession. Most people actually have ethics and don't lie or cheat at all. Others don't think it's worth it over something so avoidable as this. YMMV.
 
Anyone know if this school offers any scholarship packages or only private loans?
 
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Accepted Students : Is your background check for the past 20 years?
 
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