Madagascar Part TWWo - Game Thread

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Viscernable said:
1) We don’t see any evidence of her purported thought process leading her to vote PSV being real.
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I'm pretty sure I was the first to put any substantial argument for wolf!PSV on the thread. There was sus, but no real reasons. I laid out that I felt their active flopping on sus of multiple slots felt like a wolf move to see what stuck. If you don't agree with my thought process, that's fine. But you can't say I didn't put it out there.

Viscernable said:
Why is she basically apologizing to PSV/giving excuses for having voted her last cycle while still voting her?
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Please see my signature. I take my status as friendliest player (twice) very seriously and if I feel there is any personal hurt at all, I will attempt to defuse that. What I was trying to say to PSV was that even though I felt she was wolfy, it wasn't anything personal for the yeet. And a wagon that appears quickly so close to close that nearly yeeted someone, that feels a little bad even if they are a wolf because they are so hard to defend against :shrug:
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WildZoo said:
Not technically. Well, depends on your definition of bus.

I'll vote a packmate if I have to, but I'm not gonna kill 'em if I don't have to, and 99% of the time I prefer not to lone wolf. I don't draw attention to them early, I prefer to powerwolf. It's been a long long time since I've bussed outside of situations where either myself or my packmate were outted.

Does that answer your question?
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I was hoping for a zenge style trust tell but yeah it answers the question lol
 
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SARdoghandler said:
I mean, if we need to yeet me today because people truly think I'm the wolf, then that's fine because at least thanks to Santy and VCA for Dubz, yeeting Vis tomorrow should give the win
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But, you know, to clarify

Rose Mcgowan Scream GIF by filmeditor
 
SARdoghandler said:
If I had been partnered with April, do you really feel like I would do all this clumsy faffing around on thread vs finding a reason to sus Zenge (who was a viable wagon) and get on that wagon? I didn't feel Zenge was wolfy and at that time April hadn't majorly pinged me yet so I went with my strongest wolf read after deciding between Vis and PSV who I thought would have the highest chance of flipping red
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Examining from the April/SAR partner perspective...

He wasn't really a viable wagon. Like, there was discussion about Vis's vote being a joke vote, so that one was likely to move. Santy was calling him village. Unlikely you'd get Clem off of April. PSV had already said she felt decent about him. April knows I'm not going there d1 unless he's literally howling, which he wasn't. So you've got genny, you having to come up with some sketchy reason to wolf read him, and then April having to reverse her "snap" village read on him which would look bad and retaliatory. Who else would you argue that you could have gotten to vote for him?

Like, in this version of things, that was the whole reason for that probe, to figure out if anyone else would vote there. And to get rid of Zenge as early as possible, which is usually the best move for the wolf pack. But there wasn't a good way to pull it off. Nobody was all that suspicious of him, and I told you myself that kind of vote only happens when people are paranoid.
 
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SARdoghandler said:
Would depend on the pack I think. If there's a lot of strong personalities, then my requests can be vetoed haha
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Ok I went back and yeah I definitely would have been the least outspoken of that pack and made very few kill decisions :laugh: Also you weren't even VILLAGE
 
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SARdoghandler said:
No you dweeb, I was sleeping and then at work :laugh:
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I figured but I had to do the meme!

SARdoghandler said:
Did you? Man I'm worse at this game every year
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Well, I sort of did late d1, and then I like...burned that to the ground when I was talking about being suspicious of you early d2, so. I actually have no idea how to play in this kind of setup :laugh:
 
WildZoo said:
Examining from the April/SAR partner perspective...

He wasn't really a viable wagon. Like, there was discussion about Vis's vote being a joke vote, so that one was likely to move. Santy was calling him village. Unlikely you'd get Clem off of April. PSV had already said she felt decent about him. April knows I'm not going there d1 unless he's literally howling, which he wasn't. So you've got genny, you having to come up with some sketchy reason to wolf read him, and then April having to reverse her "snap" village read on him which would look bad and retaliatory. Who else would you argue that you could have gotten to vote for him?

Like, in this version of things, that was the whole reason for that probe, to figure out if anyone else would vote there. And to get rid of Zenge as early as possible, which is usually the best move for the wolf pack. But there wasn't a good way to pull it off. Nobody was all that suspicious of him, and I told you myself that kind of vote only happens when people are paranoid.
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Again, this assumes a wolf!SAR that thinks things through that much. I am way more likely to find a reason to be on a counter wagon to hide than being the first on a new counter wagon or on a lone vote when I wolf. But we're just going to WIFOM for days here with what we think I would do as a wolf and I recognize that my own evaluation of my wolf game is very biased haha
 
SARdoghandler said:
Ok I went back and yeah I definitely would have been the least outspoken of that pack and made very few kill decisions :laugh: Also you weren't even VILLAGE
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I just couldn't off the top of my head remember any other wolf!SAR vs not-wolf!Dubz games.

I know there was one where I was on you like, immediately and I think I then died that night. But I can't remember what game it was. And it feels different since I didn't call you out as hard this game.

I can't see a good reason for Vis to kill genny either, btw. Like the reason isn't clear to me for either of you.
 
SARdoghandler said:
Again, this assumes a wolf!SAR that thinks things through that much. I am way more likely to find a reason to be on a counter wagon to hide than being the first on a new counter wagon or on a lone vote when I wolf. But we're just going to WIFOM for days here with what we think I would do as a wolf and I recognize that my own evaluation of my wolf game is very biased haha
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April is my wolf pup, I think she would have been encouraging some teamwork. Even if you claim you don't think that hard, she was around and was pretty active and very much making those probes and things herself too.

The fact is that your actions are pretty much the only ones I can point to and say they look like an effort to save April.
 
SARdoghandler said:
I'm going to stop directly replying to Dubz arguments against my play so far because I can basically sum it up as "yep, you're right. I am not the smartest player and I make questionable choices but it doesn't make me a wolf" :laugh:
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It may indeed be more worth your time to explain/show why Vis is the better choice lol
 
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WildZoo said:
April is my wolf pup, I think she would have been encouraging some teamwork. Even if you claim you don't think that hard, she was around and was pretty active and very much making those probes and things herself too.

The fact is that your actions are pretty much the only ones I can point to and say they look like an effort to save April.
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Like I said, if I'm the move today then that's okay since with Vis going tomorrow it should be a village win.
 
WildZoo said:
It may indeed be more worth your time to explain/show why Vis is the better choice lol
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Honestly? I'm going to go and decompress with the hubs for a bit for dinner. I'll likely come back and pull some quotes but it sounds like Santy is pretty set so even if I swing you over, it's feeling not really worth the effort it would take. Especially for a game that should be mech locked
 
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SARdoghandler said:
Honestly? I'm going to go and decompress with the hubs for a bit for dinner. I'll likely come back and pull some quotes but it sounds like Santy is pretty set so even if I swing you over, it's feeling not really worth the effort it would take. Especially for a game that should be mech locked
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Yes, Clem and Santy seem pretty locked in, so it's me that you need to convince. If you swing me over you live, it's not like there's risk of a tie or anything.

But I suppose fair point it's pretty much locked at you/Vis so doesn't so much matter who dies first, except for expediency.
 
SARdoghandler said:
But a night kill that makes my VCA look that bad? Give me at least a sprinkle of credit, Dubz :rofl:
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Why do these nightkills make specifically your VCA look so terrible vs if you killed someone else or vs how they make your counterwagon (me) look?
 
Prefer vis first but I'm fine just clearing dubz honestly, if wrong its santys fault
 
Not even given the dignity of acknowledgement of existence that fantasyland, ironically, got
 
Viscernable said:
I might be missing something but I don’t understand what the nks have to do with that?
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Essentially to try to boil it down to something simple... If you assume that wolves aren't bussing, then everyone on April's yeet is clear. It is reasonable to assume the wolves would have tried to form a counter wagon, which would look to be PSV. At the time of Genny's death, only April was flipped. But assuming the wolves worked together, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume the other wolf is on the same wagon. That leads sus to me and genny, in particular. Or, it could. Night being closed means that no one can discuss where they are leaning before the night kill but after yeet flip. By killing genny and flipping her village, it makes it very likely for me to be the remaining wolf. Assuming you make all the above assumptions.

But I think you know that and that's why you did it :p
 
SARdoghandler said:
Essentially to try to boil it down to something simple... If you assume that wolves aren't bussing, then everyone on April's yeet is clear. It is reasonable to assume the wolves would have tried to form a counter wagon, which would look to be PSV. At the time of Genny's death, only April was flipped. But assuming the wolves worked together, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume the other wolf is on the same wagon. That leads sus to me and genny, in particular. Or, it could. Night being closed means that no one can discuss where they are leaning before the night kill but after yeet flip. By killing genny and flipping her village, it makes it very likely for me to be the remaining wolf. Assuming you make all the above assumptions.

But I think you know that and that's why you did it :p
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Do you think you, as a wolf, would have avoided making yourself look bad with that kind of kill in spite of the need to hunt for the seer?

If we're going to talk about kills, why do you think Vis would have killed genny? Or Zenge?
 
WildZoo said:
Do you think you, as a wolf, would have avoided making yourself look bad with that kind of kill in spite of the need to hunt for the seer?

If we're going to talk about kills, why do you think Vis would have killed genny? Or Zenge?
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Vis would have killed genny to frame me for a misyeet, as detailed above. Why go that route over someone on the April wagon, I don't entirely know. But I don't think it makes less sense for her to kill genny than it did for me. Zenge was leaning more village on me, so makes sense to take him out as a clear villager in the hopes of contributing to my yeet today

I do tend to try not to draw unnecessary attention to myself as a wolf, yes. I cannot powerwolf, it's not in my range. Power chaos? Sure. But not powerwolf
 
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SARdoghandler said:
Vis would have killed genny to frame me for a misyeet, as detailed above. Why go that route over someone on the April wagon, I don't entirely know. But I don't think it makes less sense for her to kill genny than it did for me. Zenge was leaning more village on me, so makes sense to take him out as a clear villager in the hopes of contributing to my yeet today

I do tend to try not to draw unnecessary attention to myself as a wolf, yes. I cannot powerwolf, it's not in my range. Power chaos? Sure. But not powerwolf
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Oh I'm not saying the genny kill makes less sense for her. I'm saying it makes equally little sense from a threadstate perspective for either of you, so it had to be something else.

Framing you? I mean, maybe. Not where my priority would be though. If the idea was to frame someone on the PSV vote, it would make more sense to leave genny alive. Push PSV, she flips village, then Vis has still got you and genny to push as April's partner, and that's her 3 misyeets right there. Flipping genny doesn't help her in the long run, and it only really works to frame you once we know that PSV is village anyway, because until that point, if people thought those were w/w wagons, the people on PSV look okay. But she was very intent on not voting PSV, so that would have ruined her own plan.

Mine and I think most wolves' priority would have been finding the seer. I get you're saying you had reason not to kill genny, but if genny was killed in the process of seer hunting, which makes the most sense to me, then I have to decide if I still think you'd avoid the kill for VCA reasons even if you really thought she was the seer for some reason.

Zenge was leaning village on both of you, until PSV asked what he was going to do if she flipped village. I don't think he ever clarified which of you he was more concerned about at that point?
 
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WildZoo said:
Mine and I think most wolves' priority would have been finding the seer. I get you're saying you had reason not to kill genny, but if genny was killed in the process of seer hunting, which makes the most sense to me, then I have to decide if I still think you'd avoid the kill for VCA reasons even if you really thought she was the seer for some reason.
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Well let me know when you decide :p
 
More thoughts on Zenge's death:

From where I'm sitting, if the choice was between killing me and Zenge (and sigh, Zenge always gets the sweet release of death before I do, but I digress), either Zenge died because he was a more likely seer suspect, or he died because he was more likely to vote for the final wolf.

The only reason Zenge would be considered a more likely seer suspect than me, would be if the closest thing I had to a green check claim was wrong. That points to a wolf SAR.

And then looking at the other point, who the wolf would want to get rid of for vote reasons... I've voted for Vis multiple times already this game. I have historically voted for Vis many many times. I'm not someone she wants in endgame when I've been suspicious of her for two game days already lol
 
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SARdoghandler said:
Essentially to try to boil it down to something simple... If you assume that wolves aren't bussing, then everyone on April's yeet is clear. It is reasonable to assume the wolves would have tried to form a counter wagon, which would look to be PSV. At the time of Genny's death, only April was flipped. But assuming the wolves worked together, it wouldn't be unreasonable to assume the other wolf is on the same wagon. That leads sus to me and genny, in particular. Or, it could. Night being closed means that no one can discuss where they are leaning before the night kill but after yeet flip. By killing genny and flipping her village, it makes it very likely for me to be the remaining wolf. Assuming you make all the above assumptions.

But I think you know that and that's why you did it :p
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Unironically, this is amazing. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone spin “another viable misyeet was nked” into “they were nked so that I specifically would be misyeeted instead of them and then me, because wolves hate me specifically or something”, let alone do it so eloquently
 
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The advanced bull****ting level is off the charts
 
Viscernable said:
Unironically, this is amazing. I don’t think I’ve ever seen someone spin “another viable misyeet was nked” into “they were nked so that I specifically would be misyeeted instead of them and then me, because wolves hate me specifically or something”, let alone do it so eloquently
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Why you gotta make my tinfoils sound so... Crinkly?
 
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