Ugh...advice please?

[Low Flow]

Yes.

Aside from soothing your fragile ego, how much of a difference is mid tier vs. low-mid tier going to make? I'm sure the extra 250k in earnings spent on a few vacations will sooth the pain fast enough.

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[PL198]

If you wanted to go into PC then I would tell you to take the DO acceptance and call it a day.

My advice to you right now is to go read post interview reports from people who scored 245+ on Step 1 and see what they have to say. I'm not going to lie, it breaks my heart when I see applicants who busted their butts for years get turned away from programs just because they are a DO. They had to apply at more places to get the same amount of interviews as MD applicants who scored ~230. A bunch of those posts end in "I matched at a mid-tier institution and I'm happy" but I always get the sense they wonder "What if I had taken the other route?"

Things aren't going to change for a few years. If you're comfortable with that then take the DO acceptance.

nothing is going to change. if DOs were considered fully = to MD in applying to residency, why would anyone ever go to an MD school? DO schools have lower admission stats for a reason.

 

[jw3600]

Aside from soothing your fragile ego, how much of a difference is mid tier vs. low-mid tier going to make? I'm sure the extra 250k in earnings spent on a few vacations will sooth the pain fast enough.

Money wise, it's a loss. But if you plan on having a 30 year career, it's hard to quantify satisfaction with regards to where and what you end up doing. These decisions are tough because even with all the data, it usually still comes down to personal preference for cost:benefit.

The 250 does sound nice though.

 

[jw3600]

nothing is going to change. if DOs were considered fully = to MD in applying to residency, why would anyone ever go to an MD school? DO schools have lower admission stats for a reason.

I don't think nothing will change. I think a lot will change. It will just take years. Wouldn't be suprised if there was no distinction in 10/15 years. However these issues are mainly irrelevant to most of us.

 

[F#&$#^&&@theMCAT]

I don't think nothing will change. I think a lot will change. It will just take years. Wouldn't be suprised if there was no distinction in 10/15 years. However these issues are mainly irrelevant to most of us.

I agree.

 

[PL198]

I don't think nothing will change. I think a lot will change. It will just take years. Wouldn't be suprised if there was no distinction in 10/15 years. However these issues are mainly irrelevant to most of us.

if there's no distinction, then the quality of students will be the same. that will never happen because there just aren't that many students of that level of performance.

 

[jw3600]

if there's no distinction, then the quality of students will be the same. that will never happen because there just aren't that many students of that level of performance.

I get what you're saying but (and I say this knowing you hate California and big cities) but you are straight over the ****oo nest if you think kids won't start passing on med schools in Arkansas, Kansas, parts of the south, to go to Florida, CA, NYC, Chicago if all schools grant the same degree. We will most likely see a small redistribution of applicants. That said, most of the power house MD schools will keep attracting the best. RFU and many others are due to lose kids to PCOM and NYCOM.

Edit: and with MCAT scores continuing to creep up for the top DO schools, there may be enough students of that performance level after all. Hard to know.

 

[F#&$#^&&@theMCAT]

if there's no distinction, then the quality of students will be the same. that will never happen because there just aren't that many students of that level of performance.

In about 10 years, DO and MD schools will both be extremely competitive to get into. Look how much has changed now from 10 years ago for students applying to med schools. There are some DO schools that are more tough to get into then some low tier MD schools.

 

[PL198]

In about 10 years, DO and MD schools will both be extremely competitive to get into. Look how much has changed now from 10 years ago for students applying to med schools. There are some DO schools that are more tough to get into then some low tier MD schools.

right but avg to avg, it's not very close.

another point is if they're equivalent, then why even stratify them? ie why not just have MD schools and MD schools that teach OMM?

I think the other day I read about a school that had an MD and DO school, that was pretty interesting

 

[jw3600]

right but avg to avg, it's not very close.

another point is if they're equivalent, then why even stratify them? ie why not just have MD schools and MD schools that teach OMM?

I think the other day I read about a school that had an MD and DO school, that was pretty interesting

Michigan State. And mainly because OMM hasn't quited passed the complete bull**** test yet.

 

[F#&$#^&&@theMCAT]

if anyone has time to kill throughout the day I suggest watching this talk between a DO trauma surgeon and a MD ENT



its extremely informative!

 

[chizledfrmstone]

I don't think nothing will change. I think a lot will change. It will just take years. Wouldn't be suprised if there was no distinction in 10/15 years. However these issues are mainly irrelevant to most of us.

It's going to take a while.

People still think DO schools are full of students who had a 3.2/23 or something.

One of the MD physicians I shadowed was shocked when I told him my stats. He graduated 15 years ago and assumed the quality of applicants hadn't changed. After physicians graduate they rarely keep up with what's going on in the applicant pool. I don't blame them since they have so many other things to deal with.

I had a 3.7 GPA from a respectable state school and my only section below 10 was in VR. I chose to go DO because it was so late in the cycle. Hopefully that doesn't mean I'm too incompetent to become a Physician.

Last year 3 people who had an MCAT >35 asked me to help them get into DO schools. They were non-trad engineering students who had low GPAs. The ~3.2/35+ on their transcripts don't tell the whole story.

People like to categorize things (High tier, mid tier, low tier, MD, DO...). It's going to take a while as the new DO physicians graduate and prove themselves.

Edit: Just read PL189's posts and you will understand why it's going to take 10-15 for things to change.

 

[jw3600]

It's going to take a while.

People still think DO schools are full of students who had a 3.2/23 or something.

One of the MD physicians I shadowed was shocked when I told him my stats. He graduated 15 years ago and assumed the quality of applicants hadn't changed. After physicians graduate they rarely keep up with what's going on in the applicant pool. I don't blame them since they have so many other things to deal with.

I had a 3.7 GPA from a respectable state school and my only section below 10 was in VR. I chose to go DO because it was so late in the cycle. Hopefully that doesn't mean I'm too incompetent to become a Physician.

Last year 3 people who had an MCAT >35 asked me to help them get into DO schools. They were non-trad engineering students who had low GPAs. The ~3.2/35+ on their transcripts don't tell the whole story.

People like to categorize things (High tier, mid tier, low tier, MD, DO...). It's going to take a while as the new DO physicians graduate and prove themselves.

Edit: Just read PL189's posts and you will understand why it's going to take 10-15 for things to change.

Do you mean "you" as in "one" or "you" as in me? Because I literally just said it's going to take 10/15 years to change. I already know the why. Another factor is residency directors just becoming used to taking osteopathic graduates.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

Do you mean "you" as in "one" or "you" as in me? Because I literally just said it's going to take 10/15 years to change. I already know the why. Another factor is residency directors just becoming used to taking osteopathic graduates.

It wasn't specifically directed to you.

 

[PL198]

It's going to take a while.

People still think DO schools are full of students who had a 3.2/23 or something.

One of the MD physicians I shadowed was shocked when I told him my stats. He graduated 15 years ago and assumed the quality of applicants hadn't changed. After physicians graduate they rarely keep up with what's going on in the applicant pool. I don't blame them since they have so many other things to deal with.

I had a 3.7 GPA from a respectable state school and my only section below 10 was in VR. I chose to go DO because it was so late in the cycle. Hopefully that doesn't mean I'm too incompetent to become a Physician.

Last year 3 people who had an MCAT >35 asked me to help them get into DO schools. They were non-trad engineering students who had low GPAs. The ~3.2/35+ on their transcripts don't tell the whole story.

People like to categorize things (High tier, mid tier, low tier, MD, DO...). It's going to take a while as the new DO physicians graduate and prove themselves.

Edit: Just read PL189's posts and you will understand why it's going to take 10-15 for things to change.

All the averages are increasing with the stats being better really isn't super impressive to me. Resources get better and more precise over time and students become more aware of what is a good resource and what isn't. 20 years ago it was much more difficult to study for step 1 vs now when you can basically just vomit out FA and Uworld and get a good score.

I think today's candidates are probably a little better , but the resources thing is also very important. Same thing with grades. I think grade inflation is becoming a phenomenon everywhere, with the whole " everybody is a winner " attitude that is increasingly being displayed in essentially all walks of life.

I'm not hating on DO at all. I recognize it's different and that it's different for a reason. If things chance as much as you indicate they will, then there would be no point in them being DO schools in the first place.

 

[jw3600]

All the averages are increasing with the stats being better really isn't super impressive to me. Resources get better and more precise over time and students become more aware of what is a good resource and what isn't. 20 years ago it was much more difficult to study for step 1 vs now when you can basically just vomit out FA and Uworld and get a good score.

I think today's candidates are probably a little better , but the resources thing is also very important. Same thing with grades. I think grade inflation is becoming a phenomenon everywhere, with the whole " everybody is a winner " attitude that is increasingly being displayed in essentially all walks of life.

I'm not hating on DO at all. I recognize it's different and that it's different for a reason. If things chance as much as you indicate they will, then there would be no point in them being DO schools in the first place.

There isn't man. It's all power politics from people up high.

 

[Mass Effect]

Michigan State. And mainly because OMM hasn't quited passed the complete bull**** test yet.

Another DO school recently announced they're opening an MD counterpart. You'd think that OMM would have passed the complete BS test, considering allopathic schools like Harvard offer it as an elective.

 

[JimmyB123]

Bleh this is harder than I thought it would be...

Thanks for the responses tho everyone

 

[Hombre de Vitruvio]

Another DO school recently announced they're opening an MD counterpart. You'd think that OMM would have passed the complete BS test, considering allopathic schools like Harvard offer it as an elective.

Osteopathic manipulative medicine might not be BS, but there is little evidence supporting its use. DOs don't come from a scientific background since they aren't affiliated with research institutions so there likely won't be many reviews coming. It's a shame too, it would be nice to know what works (if anything) and what doesn't. Only quality review I have seen is a Cochrane review which shows OMT is worthless for pneumonia.

It's well known that most DOs do not practice OMM. My anatomy professor was also an anatomy professor at a DO school and he was strongly against OMT. In short, don't let OMM stop you from becoming a DO.

My piece of advice is to attend. Especially if you got into Midwestern CCOM since it is the best of the best DO school along with AT Still in Kirksville (but who wants to live in Missouri). If you want to get a surgery residency, you can if you go there. Of the 3 ENT surgeons I've met, 1 was a DO who went there. The only thing that really sucks is you'll have to take the COMLEX and USMLE. It also will make doing research during your M1 summer more difficult if you are going for the super competitive surgical residencies. Either way, losing a year and wasting your time spinning your wheels as you go into debt is just terrible. It's stress that you don't need when you've already been accepted to a medical school program. It's not worth your time or money to spend tens of thousands of dollars for a one-year post-bacc program to attend one of the most expensive MD programs. That program being Temple.

 

[Psai]

In about 10 years, DO and MD schools will both be extremely competitive to get into. Look how much has changed now from 10 years ago for students applying to med schools. There are some DO schools that are more tough to get into then some low tier MD schools.

I really hope so because I'm not satisfied with the quality of residents that DO schools and Caribbean schools put out. For sure there are some great ones out there but in general, there are many people who make me go, how did this person get into medical school and I find out that they came from Ross or nycom. All you pre-dos and do students get upset when I say things like that but it's not that I'm discriminating against people for the degree but that these things become apparent with some experience

 

[F#&$#^&&@theMCAT]

I really hope so because I'm not satisfied with the quality of residents that DO schools and Caribbean schools put out. For sure there are some great ones out there but in general, there are many people who make me go, how did this person get into medical school and I find out that they came from Ross or nycom. All you pre-dos and do students get upset when I say things like that but it's not that I'm discriminating against people for the degree but that these things become apparent with some experience

This is exaggerated, a bit. A generalization. I think your referring to the couple residents you know that either just happened to come from "ross" or "nycom" but to each their own so I respect your opinion.

 

[chizledfrmstone]

I really hope so because I'm not satisfied with the quality of residents that DO schools and Caribbean schools put out. For sure there are some great ones out there but in general, there are many people who make me go, how did this person get into medical school and I find out that they came from Ross or nycom. All you pre-dos and do students get upset when I say things like that but it's not that I'm discriminating against people for the degree but that these things become apparent with some experience

Can you share some examples? I'm just curious.

 

[Hombre de Vitruvio]

I really hope so because I'm not satisfied with the quality of residents that DO schools and Caribbean schools put out. For sure there are some great ones out there but in general, there are many people who make me go, how did this person get into medical school and I find out that they came from Ross or nycom. All you pre-dos and do students get upset when I say things like that but it's not that I'm discriminating against people for the degree but that these things become apparent with some experience

This guy got into Midwestern guys. I had my reservations about DO schools but CCOM and KCOM are really quite great. Don't put reservations about low ranking DO schools and Caribbean schools into this thread. This is about helping the OP figure out whether to go to DO school, at CCOM, now or hold off for a MD acceptance next year at Temple University in Philly.

 

[ShabbaRanks]

It seems that you aren't sold on going to the DO school.
Just trying to put myself in your position, I think you should do the post bacc/ md program if you are sure you will be admitted the following year.

 

[Hombre de Vitruvio]

if anyone has time to kill throughout the day I suggest watching this talk between a DO trauma surgeon and a MD ENT



its extremely informative!

I watched this whole video through and I think that the DO has things right. He doesn't practice osteopathic manipulative medicine. He is a trauma surgeon as a DO! Just goes to show that a DO can do anything if they put their mind to it. Plus, he isn't a sell-out like the other MD on the program who works for lifestyle lift as a plastic surgeon. The difference is purely historical. I am an accepted MD applicant and I think that this original poster here wanting to wait for a MD acceptance to Temple vs. Midwestern Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine now is crazy!

Go for the DO! Don't waste your time. As an accepted MD applicant at Creighton, I say it doesn't make a difference. I even turned down Temple.

 

[RxStudentatUB]

I really hope so because I'm not satisfied with the quality of residents that DO schools and Caribbean schools put out. For sure there are some great ones out there but in general, there are many people who make me go, how did this person get into medical school and I find out that they came from Ross or nycom. All you pre-dos and do students get upset when I say things like that but it's not that I'm discriminating against people for the degree but that these things become apparent with some experience

I was under the impression that NYCOM was a little iffy, relatively high drop out rate compared to other osteopathic medical schools after pre-clinical years. I am not familiar with the geography of the region, but I am making a trek to Downstate's allopathic program open house this summer. They seem to be more representative of the high standards required to get accepted into a quality medical school in the region.

 

[Psai]

nvm

 

[F#&$#^&&@theMCAT]

I watched this whole video through and I think that the DO has things right. He doesn't practice osteopathic manipulative medicine. He is a trauma surgeon as a DO! Just goes to show that a DO can do anything if they put their mind to it. Plus, he isn't a sell-out like the other MD on the program who works for lifestyle lift as a plastic surgeon. The difference is purely historical. I am an accepted MD applicant and I think that this original poster here wanting to wait for a MD acceptance to Temple vs. Midwestern Chicago College of Osteopathic Medicine now is crazy!

Go for the DO! Don't waste your time. As an accepted MD applicant at Creighton, I say it doesn't make a difference. I even turned down Temple.

I am glad you found this video informational! I loved it! Good luck at Creighton. To the OP, take hombre's advice!

 

[Mass Effect]

I really hope so because I'm not satisfied with the quality of residents that DO schools and Caribbean schools put out

Aren't you a third year med student? No one gives a damn if you're satisfied with what you've seen. By definition, as a med student, you've seen very little. To judge the "quality of residents," some of whom likely weren't satisfied with the quality of your work, takes arrogance.

For some reason, this quote of yours seems fitting here: "look at this precocious second year medical student, lecturing us about what you need to know about clinically evaluating a patient."

 

[F#&$#^&&@theMCAT]

Aren't you a third year med student? No one gives a damn if you're satisfied with what you've seen. By definition, as a med student, you've seen very little. To judge the "quality of residents," some of whom likely weren't satisfied with the quality of your work, takes arrogance.

For some reason, this quote of yours seems fitting here: "look at this precocious second year medical student, lecturing us about what you need to know about clinically evaluating a patient."

you couldn't have said it better, doc!

 

[Finches]

Every single time, without fail, these threads turn into this clusterf*ck of superiority-complexed MD students versus inferiority-complexed DO students. Hell, even this very post of my own is part of the pattern - I apologize in advance.

But some of the MD students on SDN seem to derive some twisted pleasure of actively putting down their DO counterparts, while some of the DO students on SDN won't stop parroting "we'll all be equal in 5, 10, 15 (insert random number here) years!".

Both are qualities of a very insecure individual.

 

[evilbooyaa]

If you're very confident you can pull a 3.5 GPA in the hardest classes that you've ever taken (since they'll be identical to the first year of medical school), then go for it.

However, if there is even a 1% chance that you get < 3.5, you stick with the DO school, period.

I say this as an allopathic 4th year.

While DOs on average do not get into the same competitive level of residencies that equally scoring US MDs do, they can still do well in the match (except for extremely competitive fields).

If you know you have no strong interest in a surgical subspecialty (urology/ENT/ophtho/ortho/neurosurg and to a lesser extent vascular/plastics) or something else crazy competitive (derm, radonc) then you'll be fine in a DO school.

Disclaimer - I know DOs have spots in all those fields and that there are specific AOA programs for DOs in most of the fields mentioned, but the # of spots is much lower than it is for ACGME programs. Plus, with the upcoming merger of residency programs, "guaranteed" spots for DOs are going by the wayside (although they will still likely be preferred by DO PDs)

 

[Shjanzey]

Go with what makes you happiest. Me personally I would go with allopathic over DO every time. That is just my personal preference

 

[PatsyStone]

I think it's adorable that so many posters believe that there will be no distinctions between MD and DO schools in ten years.

To the OP: if I were a pre-med, I'd tell you to do the masters at Temple. However, as a fourth year, I would like to point out that about 95% of my class did not go into the field they thought they would enter when they started med shool. Yes, there is a bias against DOs in surgery, but chances are you'll go into something else. While trying to maximize your chances of going into the field you think you want to enter is logical, realize that your preference will almost certainly change. At the end of the day, I would probably take the DO and run with it

 

[Psai]

Aren't you a third year med student? No one gives a damn if you're satisfied with what you've seen. By definition, as a med student, you've seen very little. To judge the "quality of residents," some of whom likely weren't satisfied with the quality of your work, takes arrogance.

For some reason, this quote of yours seems fitting here: "look at this precocious second year medical student, lecturing us about what you need to know about clinically evaluating a patient."

it's true that i haven't seen a lot. but obviously you give a damn since you're replying to my post. but i have seen enough to be able to tell who the good residents are and who are the ones that struggle. no one gets into medical school without a little arrogance. but i'm in medical school to learn. if you're an intern and you don't understand the material as well as i do as a third year medical student, there's a huge problem.

 

[BrooklynBulls]

it's true that i haven't seen a lot. but obviously you give a damn since you're replying to my post. but i have seen enough to be able to tell who the good residents are and who are the ones that struggle. no one gets into medical school without a little arrogance. but i'm in medical school to learn. if you're an intern and you don't understand the material as well as i do as a third year medical student, there's a huge problem.

Even if you can evaluate how strong a resident is through your lens, it's incredibly hard to generalize anything when your sample size is...what, 9 months of rotations? How many residents did you work closely with? 20? How many DOs? IMGs? USMDs? But you can already sense the competency of each, globally?

I've had a little more experience than you, and I still can't say definitively which group is better...particularly at WHAT-- there's plenty of aspects to being a doctor besides understanding concepts. I don't even know how you even know who's who. Sure, an FMG is pretty easy to pick out most of the time, and some institutions put DO at the end of the resident's name. But a lot of them don't. And USIMGs? Unless you ask, you wont know where they're from...and I often didn't ask, because who cares?

My general experience was that FMGs were VERY paternal-- as in did not like the patient making ANY choice that deviated from their own. And more brusque in their bedside manner. And the USIMGs I've met trended toward party-types-- few seemed to go home and study. But very few that I met seemed incompetent, and to my sensibility no more often than USMDs. And I have the egotism to label myself an above average medical student-- all my residents have consistently demonstrated funds of knowledge much greater than my own.

In terms of medical knowledge though, no USMD or USIMG even rivaled the cream of the crop FMG's I've worked with, some of whom practiced medicine as attendings in their home countries, a few even being prominent professors. Those guys have a fund of knowledge that is utterly jaw-dropping at an intern or 2nd year level and are capable of working almost independently from the jump. Citing names of studies and debating topics I did not even know were clinical entities at that point. That to me is impressive and intimidating during 3rd year. Though I hardly expect every FMG I meet to be a walking Harrisons. Because I know that my n= like 4 and that's not enough to form any global opinion.

It is always surprising to me when scientific minds make sweeping generalizations like this OUTSIDE of academia, but then when they sit down and read a study, they'll be very quick to point out flaws in design, randomness of the distribution, and sample size. And then turn around and say stuff like "I dunno, I've seen a lot of complications with X, so I like to prescribe Y." Uhhh...you did NOT just carry out your own impromptu study and skip the first or second line agent for all your patients because of your PERSONAL, relatively tiny level of experience with that agent? But I've seen it, dozens of times. And no, I do not know where those guys went to med school.

 

[Psai]

Even if you can evaluate how strong a resident is through your lens, it's incredibly hard to generalize anything when your sample size is...what, 9 months of rotations? How many residents did you work closely with? 20? How many DOs? IMGs? USMDs? But you can already sense the competency of each, globally?

I've had a little more experience than you, and I still can't say definitively which group is better...particularly at WHAT-- there's plenty of aspects to being a doctor besides understanding concepts. I don't even know how you even know who's who. Sure, an FMG is pretty easy to pick out most of the time, and some institutions put DO at the end of the resident's name. But a lot of them don't. And USIMGs? Unless you ask, you wont know where they're from...and I often didn't ask, because who cares?

My general experience was that FMGs were VERY paternal-- as in did not like the patient making ANY choice that deviated from their own. And more brusque in their bedside manner. And the USIMGs I've met trended toward party-types-- few seemed to go home and study. But very few that I met seemed incompetent, and to my sensibility no more often than USMDs. And I have the egotism to label myself an above average medical student-- all my residents have consistently demonstrated funds of knowledge much greater than my own.

In terms of medical knowledge though, no USMD or USIMG even rivaled the cream of the crop FMG's I've worked with, some of whom practiced medicine as attendings in their home countries, a few even being prominent professors. Those guys have a fund of knowledge that is utterly jaw-dropping at an intern or 2nd year level and are capable of working almost independently from the jump. Citing names of studies and debating topics I did not even know were clinical entities at that point. That to me is impressive and intimidating during 3rd year. Though I hardly expect every FMG I meet to be a walking Harrisons. Because I know that my n= like 4 and that's not enough to form any global opinion.

It is always surprising to me when scientific minds make sweeping generalizations like this OUTSIDE of academia, but then when they sit down and read a study, they'll be very quick to point out flaws in design, randomness of the distribution, and sample size. And then turn around and say stuff like "I dunno, I've seen a lot of complications with X, so I like to prescribe Y." Uhhh...you did NOT just carry out your own impromptu study and skip the first or second line agent for all your patients because of your PERSONAL, relatively tiny level of experience with that agent? But I've seen it, dozens of times. And no, I do not know where those guys went to med school.

i didn't say anything about fmgs but i do agree that they are a very impressive bunch. the best teacher i've ever had was a nephrologist from india. i don't discriminate groups. but you don't need to have years in the hospital to figure out who the good docs are and who aren't. i knew who many of the top students in my class were in the first month of school. you can tell when someone just gets it and when they don't

 

[BrooklynBulls]

i didn't say anything about fmgs but i do agree that they are a very impressive bunch. the best teacher i've ever had was a nephrologist from india. i don't discriminate groups. but you don't need to have years in the hospital to figure out who the good docs are and who aren't. i knew who many of the top students in my class were in the first month of school. you can tell when someone just gets it and when they don't

I didn't say you said anything about FMG's. I said I find it remarkable that you think you can tell who's an FMG, IMG, DO, USMD (those are the 4 options, no?) then rate competency, then generalize each group by competency. Then I expounded how commonly I see your kind of viewpoint from physicians who are otherwise very competent at sniffing out bad science and faulty statistics in academia, but are too emotionally close to their own opinion to see it as it happens in themselves.

 

[Psai]

that's not what i'm doing but if constructing strawmen is your thing, okay bro

 

[BrooklynBulls]

I really hope so because I'm not satisfied with the quality of residents that DO schools and Caribbean schools put out. For sure there are some great ones out there but in general, there are many people who make me go, how did this person get into medical school and I find out that they came from Ross or nycom.

So what part of: "I said I find it remarkable that you think you can tell who's an FMG, IMG, DO, USMD (those are the 4 options, no?) then rate competency, then generalize each group by competency" is a strawman? You have pitted DO's and IMG's against the FMGs/USMDs and found the DOs/IMGs lacking. Have you not? What part of what you said have I misrepresented, bro?

 

[North meets South]

that's not what i'm doing but if constructing strawmen is your thing, okay bro

So what part of: "I said I find it remarkable that you think you can tell who's an FMG, IMG, DO, USMD (those are the 4 options, no?) then rate competency, then generalize each group by competency" is a strawman? You have pitted DO's and IMG's against the FMGs/USMDs and found the DOs/IMGs lacking. Have you not? What part of what you said have I misrepresented, bro?

Always wonderful, an MD medical student fighting it out with a DO medical student

 

[jw3600]

Every single time, without fail, these threads turn into this clusterf*ck of superiority-complexed MD students versus inferiority-complexed DO students. Hell, even this very post of my own is part of the pattern - I apologize in advance.

But some of the MD students on SDN seem to derive some twisted pleasure of actively putting down their DO counterparts, while some of the DO students on SDN won't stop parroting "we'll all be equal in 5, 10, 15 (insert random number here) years!".

Both are qualities of a very insecure individual.

DO schools is a means to an end man. I don't feel inferior.

 

[jw3600]

I think it's adorable that so many posters believe that there will be no distinctions between MD and DO schools in ten years.

To the OP: if I were a pre-med, I'd tell you to do the masters at Temple. However, as a fourth year, I would like to point out that about 95% of my class did not go into the field they thought they would enter when they started med shool. Yes, there is a bias against DOs in surgery, but chances are you'll go into something else. While trying to maximize your chances of going into the field you think you want to enter is logical, realize that your preference will almost certainly change. At the end of the day, I would probably take the DO and run with it

That's fair. You're entitled to your opinion. I think it's adorable that you had a little pouty, wuss week after you matched into dermatology.

 

[Psai]

So what part of: "I said I find it remarkable that you think you can tell who's an FMG, IMG, DO, USMD (those are the 4 options, no?) then rate competency, then generalize each group by competency" is a strawman? You have pitted DO's and IMG's against the FMGs/USMDs and found the DOs/IMGs lacking. Have you not? What part of what you said have I misrepresented, bro?

Your insecurities are making you read into it things that aren't there broseph

 

[BrooklynBulls]

Your insecurities are making you read into it things that aren't there broseph

Bruh, you wanna go bruh? Bruh lets go *takes shirt off for some reason* Bruh

 

[Alejandro]

Honestly, I don't have any disrespect for DOs, and yes you WILL BE A DOCTOR. And yes we know the hardest part of becoming a physician is getting in. That said, there is a LOT of work that goes into matching into a residency. Being a DO will put you at a steeper hill to climb if you want to match at an ACGME program (you may even end up having to take two sets of board exams even), and you cannot guarantee the opinion that program directors will have on being DO friendly or not.
Some programs just really don't take DOs. And yes there are exceptions, but just realize what types of people those exceptions are. You should work hard regardless of the path, but an MD may keep more doors open because you do not know what you'll want to do in the future despite whatever preconceptions of a future you have right now.

 

[Stagg737]

As fun as it's been watching how quickly this has devolved into a DO vs. MD vs. Carib MD vs. top tier/low tier/ whatever debate I'm going to get this back on topic. This is something that needs to be considered seriously:

1. You have an acceptance to a US medical school.
2. Life is unpredictable. Sure, you could keep a 3.5 GPA and matriculate into the allopathic program. Or, something unpredictable/unfortunate could happen causing you to lose your 3.5 GPA, and you'd eliminate your shot at BOTH the allopathic program and the osteopathic program. Then you'd be stuck applying, again, and would have to explain why you turned down a previous acceptance AND why you couldn't keep a 3.5 GPA in a post-bacc program.... which would surely impair your ability to be accepted at any allopathic medical school. That would seriously suck.

1. You have an acceptance. If you decline it that's fine, but you'll essentially be shutting the door on any future chances at DO schools that you'll have. Keep that in mind for later...

2. Life is unpredictable. A family member dies or gets sick. You get seriously injured or sick. Life event X happens that prevents you from completing the SMP that year. This happened to me while I was in my master's (non-linkage SMP). Dominated first semester with a 3.9 but started having major sleeping issues around November. By January I was averaging 1-2 hours of sleep on a good night and had periods where I'd go 2-3 days without any sleep. I had to take medical withdrawal and finish the program up in the fall (my other option was to try and plow through, which wasn't an option considering 1 C and you were kicked out of the program and I had 3 because of the sleeping issue). If something major like that happens when you're in med school, most places will allow you to take a semester/year off and pick back up the following year assuming you were in good academic standing. I don't know if the same can be said about the SMP you're entering, but if something happens and you can't finish (or even if you just don't hit that 3.5 GPA standard), then you've screwed yourself for both that med school and DO schools. At that point you'd have wasted 1 year in a program that cost X dollars that you couldn't finish, and another year potentially re-building a beaten down app and reapplying to MD schools that you couldn't get into during the past cycle.


The bottom line is you have an acceptance, and if it's at a strong DO school (which CCOM is if that's where you got in), then your career outlook will still be good in many fields. If you're really one of those "born to cut" people that won't be happy anywhere except surgery, then it may be worth the risk. From your posts you don't sound like one of those people. As others like Patsy stated earlier, chances are you will change your mind about what field you want to enter at some point during med school. Given what's already been said, if I were you I'd take the acceptance and run with it.

A few questions though. Would you be taking classes with the med students for the SMP? If so, be aware that keeping a 3.5 in med school is significantly harder than most people expect. I know numerous people (myself included) that were well above a 3.7 in undergrad/grad school that are happy to be at a 3.0 in med school. Just another thing to consider.

 

[NonTradJp]

Location was mentioned once early in the thread I think. I feel its important enough to mention again. OP, even if you got an MD and DO acceptance right now at the locations you mentioned. Which one would you be happier at? Location, family support, enjoying your time over 4 years feel very important to me. Take a solid school from a location you enjoy IMO.

 

[JimmyB123]

As fun as it's been watching how quickly this has devolved into a DO vs. MD vs. Carib MD vs. top tier/low tier/ whatever debate I'm going to get this back on topic. This is something that needs to be considered seriously:



1. You have an acceptance. If you decline it that's fine, but you'll essentially be shutting the door on any future chances at DO schools that you'll have. Keep that in mind for later...

2. Life is unpredictable. A family member dies or gets sick. You get seriously injured or sick. Life event X happens that prevents you from completing the SMP that year. This happened to me while I was in my master's (non-linkage SMP). Dominated first semester with a 3.9 but started having major sleeping issues around November. By January I was averaging 1-2 hours of sleep on a good night and had periods where I'd go 2-3 days without any sleep. I had to take medical withdrawal and finish the program up in the fall (my other option was to try and plow through, which wasn't an option considering 1 C and you were kicked out of the program and I had 3 because of the sleeping issue). If something major like that happens when you're in med school, most places will allow you to take a semester/year off and pick back up the following year assuming you were in good academic standing. I don't know if the same can be said about the SMP you're entering, but if something happens and you can't finish (or even if you just don't hit that 3.5 GPA standard), then you've screwed yourself for both that med school and DO schools. At that point you'd have wasted 1 year in a program that cost X dollars that you couldn't finish, and another year potentially re-building a beaten down app and reapplying to MD schools that you couldn't get into during the past cycle.


The bottom line is you have an acceptance, and if it's at a strong DO school (which CCOM is if that's where you got in), then your career outlook will still be good in many fields. If you're really one of those "born to cut" people that won't be happy anywhere except surgery, then it may be worth the risk. From your posts you don't sound like one of those people. As others like Patsy stated earlier, chances are you will change your mind about what field you want to enter at some point during med school. Given what's already been said, if I were you I'd take the acceptance and run with it.

A few questions though. Would you be taking classes with the med students for the SMP? If so, be aware that keeping a 3.5 in med school is significantly harder than most people expect. I know numerous people (myself included) that were well above a 3.7 in undergrad that are happy to be at a 3.0 in med school. Just another thing to consider.

i believe we'd be taking classes with the med students (not sure if all classes are like that) but grades are definitely curved based on med student performances. so in that respect, it doesn't really matter how you do against your post-bac peers

 

[JimmyB123]

Location was mentioned once early in the thread I think. I feel its important enough to mention again. OP, even if you got an MD and DO acceptance right now at the locations you mentioned. Which one would you be happier at? Location, family support, enjoying your time over 4 years feel very important to me. Take a solid school from a location you enjoy IMO.

Hm, I'd be comparing Philly to Chicago so that's a tough call. No fam in either locale, so not sure the support system would be strong in either places. However, I think I would have a great experience in either location. It's a toss up location wise and finances wise.