the single life...ugh

[Doudline]

Man, this reminds of the 40 year old virgin movie when he describes boobs feeling like sand. You sound like someone with very limited dating/relationship experience. Relationship = improved friendship? Do you mean FWB?

lmao of course not.
It just means I look roughly for the same things in a friend as I do in a SO.

You can't think of even one reason why casual dating might be fun. Maybe just one reason...

Well, sure lol... but if I want to hook-up I just hook-up. No need for dates.
Perhaps that's one of the benefits of being a gay male.

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[touchpause13]

Perhaps I am the exception.

Yet you guys act like romantic relationships evolve in a bubble shielded from real life.
I personally see them as little more than improved friendships; I look for exactly the same qualities in SOs as I do in friends - plus physical attractiveness and sexual compatibility. I'm extremely introverted and quite busy, so I don't have the energy or the will to just make mistakes over and over again with my friendships. And if you do pick your friends wisely, you learn a whole lot from them. Same about family.

You DO learn when to get out of a ****ty/destructive relationship, to take notice of toxic behavior, to speak your mind freely, to admit when you're both simply not compatible, etc. And you act in consequence.

Sure, it's not completely like having a boyfriend/girlfriend. You're more head over heels generally, and it can be harder to see the big picture and let go, etc. There are criteria - like an emphasis on personal responsibility, at least for me- which you may not have applied to your friends, or to a lesser degree. There's a lot of unknown.

But you guys make it sound like a romantic relationship is the same as walking into Mordor or something.
It really isn't. If you've been leading a productive life on the personal plan, at least (I'm not saying that you haven't if your first relationship has failed, even spectacularly like fancy. **** happens!).

Ofc if you have your first relationship at 15-16 y/o or whatever like most people, you haven't time for personal growth yet. What do you expect, then? Of course your relationship will likely fail. How many people are you still friends with/can still smell from high school? Not many, I'd guess.

And try to genuinely reflect on the people around you. Have they really learned from their relationship mistakes? In my experience most don't - they keep dating these "badboy" guys who treat them like ****, or they always rush into another relationship after the previous one crashed and burn, never taking time to reflect, etc; and those that do learn have seen that spurt of maturity in most areas of their life, not simply romance. But that's just my experience, I guess.

And @Kaustikos: casual dating for me was the biggest waste of time. Still is.
Sure, a first date to see if you're both compatible at first regard is important. But dates after dates for the sake of it? Jesus. I don't see what anyone could glean from that... except becoming "better" at dates I guess?

I'm the one who is projected? Erkay. Cool story bro.
I think your ideas about dating are very different than most peoples, and you should probably realize that. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone else describing relationships just like friends but with attractiveness and the sex - unless you are actually talking about FWB, but then you also say there is no point to casual dating so....
I've never had a real romantic relationship that could be compared to a non-romantic one, it's just a completely different ballgame, and not just the honeymoon phase stuff. Romantic relationships require work, which is what I feel like most people tend to not understand at first. You can't be selfish all the time, you have to learn how to compromise, how to put the other person ahead of yourself at times. It's not just about personal growth, it's that you have someone who counts on you in a way that is very different from anything else you have experienced before. Even if you are the most mature, empathetic, wonderful person on the Earth, relationships aren't just about you. That's the whole crux here, it's not just about your skills or your wants or your needs. That's the part that takes time and experience and effort to get better at. Because when you are in a serious relationship, when you really love someone, all the walls come down. You have to be able to express vulnerability and emotions in ways that you would never express them to anyone else in your life. I've known my best friend for my entire life (minus 1 month because I'm older than she is). I love this woman to death and put my utmost trust in her and even then I haven't been as emotional or raw with her as I have with the people I love(d) romantically. Romantic love is different, relationships are different. Being the best friend or the best child or the best whatever isn't going to match up to how good you are at relationships if you don't have any damn experience with relationships. So your first relationship wasn't a trainwreck? Good for you, but that's hardly the norm regardless of how old you were when you first started dating.
But hey, what do I know, I'm just some married idiot on the interwebs.

 

[2019mdtobe]

@Doudline that was a good story to hear. Anybody got any more out there?

 

[wiggitywack12]

You got issues man. Sticking around for let's say 7-10 years is a **** ton of time to wait for a paycheck. Most marriages will be over by then. I've got respect for anyone who sticks it out with a medical student for their whole training.

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That's exactly it. Its not a long time when you consider the fact that the majority of other men don't have the guarantee (even though its not guaranteed) of that type of salary even AFTER working 7-10 years.

Can an average business major be even reasonably sure that he'd even make 100K after 7-10 years of work, statistically, no he can't. So if you were someone who wanted to marry rich, a med student WOULD be worth sticking around for in terms of financial gain. Just because a girl wants a man with money doesn't mean she's short sighted about it. This is where you're being naive, if you don't think girls know this and think this way about med students. Waiting around for something vs. waiting around for probably not much is how they see it. Continue to delude yourself otherwise though.

 

[Nysor_bttw]

@Doudline that was a good story to hear. Anybody got any more out there?

Same boat as you buddy. Though not for lack of trying. Some guys just don't have the luck (game), ya know? Reading through here is a bit discouraging, as some of those with relationship experience make us incels seem like spoiled meat, but you've just got to remember that everything comes with time. At least, that's what my mother tells me--she's always been supportive. If only my Jewish grandmother would stop wishing for me to have a girlfriend to bring home for Hannukah.

 

[wiggitywack12]

But hey, what do I know, I'm just some married idiot on the interwebs.

But that's the thing, you could very well be some married idiot on the inter webs. Marriage is not a status symbol. Marriage does not mean you know more or are better at relationships than a single person. You very well could be, but being married is not like a certificate or degree denoting you ultimate wisdom in the relationship area. There are so many married idiots that are codependent, manipulative, immature and just overall train wrecks and people you should never take relationship advice from. Just because they can say they are married really means nothing especially with the divorce rate in this country.


For example, your post about what relationships really entailed just sounded overly angsty and emotional to me. Emotions are not co-experienced. You may feel that your marriage at 23 years old is this whirl wind of raw emotional honesty and total trust but how will you feel in 6 years if your husband walks in, tells you he doesn't feel anything you feel and wants a divorce. Then will you crash when you realize all these emotions you described were just you feeling yourself and your S/O (no matter how much you thought he was) really wasn't experiencing all of that with you? Can you really base what is supposed to be a lifelong commitment with family, financial and social implications off of your feelings?

Feelings are subject to change. What then?

 

[NeedToStudy]

Just out of curiosity, how would you even know a man is inexperienced? I mean I imagine it would be awkward to ask about somebody's previous relationships before going on a date with them.

 

[Doudline]

I'm the one who is projected? Erkay. Cool story bro.
I think your ideas about dating are very different than most peoples, and you should probably realize that. I don't think I've ever heard of anyone else describing relationships just like friends but with attractiveness and the sex - unless you are actually talking about FWB, but then you also say there is no point to casual dating so....
I've never had a real romantic relationship that could be compared to a non-romantic one, it's just a completely different ballgame, and not just the honeymoon phase stuff. Romantic relationships require work, which is what I feel like most people tend to not understand at first. You can't be selfish all the time, you have to learn how to compromise, how to put the other person ahead of yourself at times. It's not just about personal growth, it's that you have someone who counts on you in a way that is very different from anything else you have experienced before. Even if you are the most mature, empathetic, wonderful person on the Earth, relationships aren't just about you. That's the whole crux here, it's not just about your skills or your wants or your needs. That's the part that takes time and experience and effort to get better at. Because when you are in a serious relationship, when you really love someone, all the walls come down. You have to be able to express vulnerability and emotions in ways that you would never express them to anyone else in your life. I've known my best friend for my entire life (minus 1 month because I'm older than she is). I love this woman to death and put my utmost trust in her and even then I haven't been as emotional or raw with her as I have with the people I love(d) romantically. Romantic love is different, relationships are different. Being the best friend or the best child or the best whatever isn't going to match up to how good you are at relationships if you don't have any damn experience with relationships. So your first relationship wasn't a trainwreck? Good for you, but that's hardly the norm regardless of how old you were when you first started dating.
But hey, what do I know, I'm just some married idiot on the interwebs.

Ah, yes. My statement was misleading, I suppose. It was more a reflexion on character/personal qualities.

I completely agree with you - friendships and romance are not alike at all on a cognitive/intrapersonal basis.
We simply disagree on the intuitiveness of the skill/experience necessary to the later's success, I guess.

I must be a very special snowflake, indeed.

 

[touchpause13]

But that's the thing, you could very well be some married idiot on the inter webs. Marriage is not a status symbol. Marriage does not mean you know more or are better at relationships than a single person. You very well could be, but being married is not like a certificate or degree denoting you ultimate wisdom in the relationship area. There are so many married idiots that are codependent, manipulative, immature and just overall train wrecks and people you should never take relationship advice from. Just because they can say they are married really means nothing especially with the divorce rate in this country.


For example, your post about what relationships really entailed just sounded overly angsty and emotional to me. Emotions are not co-experienced. You may feel that your marriage at 23 years old is this whirl wind of raw emotional honesty and total trust but how will you feel in 6 years if you husband walks in, tells you he doesn't feel anything you feel and wants a divorce. Then will you crash when you realize all these emotions you described where just you feeling yourself and your S/O (no matter how much you thought he was) really wasn't experiencing all of that with you? Can you really base what is supposed to be a lifelong commitment with family, financial and social implications off of your feelings?

Feelings are subject to change. What then?

The divorce rate is actually quite low for people who are college educated. And I didn't say that as a status symbol thing, I know a lot of married idiot, just as a point of reference of where I'm coming from. You or anyone else here are welcome to take everything I say with a bucket of salt, it's not going to offend me if you think I'm some injuit.

Also I'm not sure how you think you can have a relationship not based on emotions but good luck with that lol. If my marriage crashes and burns then it does. Idk what more to tell you, I can't predict the future. All I know is that we made the best decisions for us given the information we had at the time. it was hardly a whirlwind of trust and perfection that's kind of hilarious and misses the point of what I was saying. **** we had lived together for 4 years before we got married, it wasn't some spur of the moment thing. It took work, because all relationships take work

 

[drjay16]

That's exactly it. Its not a long time when you consider the fact that the majority of other men don't have the guarantee (even though its not guaranteed) of that type of salary even AFTER working 7-10 years.

Can an average business major be even reasonably sure that he'd even make 100K after 7-10 years of work, statistically, no he can't. So if you were someone who wanted to marry rich, a med student WOULD be worth sticking around for in terms of financial gain. Just because a girl wants a man with money doesn't mean she's short sighted about it. This is where you're being naive, if you don't think girls know this and think this way about med students. Waiting around for something vs. waiting around for probably not much is how they see it. Continue to delude yourself otherwise though.

What's to say the guy won't just drop her ass for someone better after? Read what I wrote again. Most relationship will be over in that time period. She's unlikely to still be with that med student. It's 10 years of being poor for money that comes after. You are delusional if you think most girls are thinking, man I'm gonna snag a med student for all the money he will make in 10 years. I make 6 figures and I have dozens of friends that went into I-banking/PE ect that make way more. Why try and stay with a med student for 10 years when you can get an banker that makes that much straight out of school!? And who is they? Are you talking about gold diggers? They are gonna fake being with someone for 10 years!? What crack are you smoking?


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[wiggitywack12]

Also I'm not sure how you think you can have a relationship not based on emotions but good luck with that lol. If my marriage crashes and burns then it does. Idk what more to tell you, I can't predict the future. All I know is that we made the best decisions for us given the information we had at the time. it was hardly a whirlwind of trust and perfection that's kind of hilarious and misses the point of what I was saying. **** we had lived together for 4 years before we got married, it wasn't some spur of the moment thing. It took work, because all relationships take work

I think its around 20-30% for educated people.

Of course feelings are naturally involved. I just found it a little odd that you were trying to convince another poster of this mystical experience that only occurs in romantic relationships and that it was just so different...just so so different that looking for the same traits as you do in your friends and knowing basic personality traits that you like to avoid is useless because a committed relationship is just....so different. It sounded very pre-teenish. However, if this is working for you, never let it go.

Because when you are in a serious relationship, when you really love someone, all the walls come down. You have to be able to express vulnerability and emotions in ways that you would never express them to anyone else in your life. I've known my best friend for my entire life (minus 1 month because I'm older than she is). I love this woman to death and put my utmost trust in her and even then I haven't been as emotional or raw with her as I have with the people I love(d) romantically.

I cringed so hard reading this. You said that you throw more trust into the romantic partners you've had than your friend who's been by your side your whole life. Some would see this as a bad thing.

A lot of people, I hope, do see committed relationships as sort of an upgraded friendship because YOU DO have to screen out personality types, certain habits and lifestyles and (I think) you absolutely should be looking for personalities that you really enjoy being around. Nothing wrong with romantic feelings but your post (to me) seemed to place way too much emphasis on that for anything serious, healthy and long lasting. Life partners, people who decide to join their living spaces, finances and bloodlines I would think have to do it on the grounds of an honest, realistic partnership that to be pleasant would have to be formed on the basis of a grounded friendship.



Romantic feelings can come and go, and I just disagree that they can be the foundation of a healthy relationship. Shared values, similar outlooks, compatible lifestyles, living in the same area tend to lead to long satisfying friendships so I don't see how the other poster was wrong in using those same values to set a good foundation for a SO. Of course there would and should be a "spark" but a compatible foundation should have more chances of lasting.

 

[wiggitywack12]

You are delusional if you think most girls are thinking, man I'm gonna snag a med student for all the money he will make in 10 years. I make 6 figures and I have dozens of friends that went into I-banking/PE ect that make way more. Why try and stay with a med student for 10 years when you can get an banker that makes that much straight out of school!?

You're assuming these girls have access to wealthy, connected investment bankers. You are bizarre. Its great that you have "dozens" of millionaire investment banker friends but please pull your head out of your behind and try to think of the dynamics of most of this country. Please try and convince me of how realistic that is. If said girl is in the environment of connected bankers and future bankers, she likely already has quite a bit of access to wealth from the start and no she is not typical. I'm talking about more "normal" girls, you're average state university grad who majored in childhood education or fashion design. Sorry bub, but she's not just walking down the street and bumping into wealthy investment bankers. Try again.


[/QUOTE]And who is they? Are you talking about gold diggers? They are gonna fake being with someone for 10 years!? What crack are you smoking?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Listen, you are lost if you think people can't and won't "be fake" for an opportunity that they want. There are people who lie about their entire sexual orientation their whole lives for personal convenience and gain. Honestly, whatever crack I'm smoking is apparently keeping me more grounded than you because you are lost. People can keep up a farce for however long they need to so long as they get what they want. If you didn't know this, I hope now you know. I'm fearful for you, honestly.

 

[drjay16]

You're assuming these girls have access to wealthy, connected investment bankers. You are bizarre. Its great that you have "dozens" of millionaire investment banker friends but please pull your head out of your behind and try to think of the dynamics of most of this country. Please try and convince me of how realistic that is. If said girl is in the environment of connected bankers and future bankers, she likely already has quite a bit of access to wealth from the start and no she is not typical. I'm talking about more "normal" girls, you're average state university grad who majored in childhood education or fashion design. Sorry bub, but she's not just walking down the street and bumping into wealthy investment bankers. Try again.

And who is they? Are you talking about gold diggers? They are gonna fake being with someone for 10 years!? What crack are you smoking?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Listen, you are lost if you think people can't and won't "be fake" for an opportunity that they want. There are people who lie about their entire sexual orientation their whole lives for personal convenience and gain. Honestly, whatever crack I'm smoking is apparently keeping me more grounded than you because you are lost. People can keep up a farce for however long they need to so long as they get what they want. If you didn't know this, I hope now you know. I'm fearful for you, honestly.[/QUOTE]

Okay, so they have access to date plenty of med students, but not ibankers? The average girl isn't even going to be in the same circle to date a med student so I just assumed that was a given. If you are really talking about average, then I stand by my point. No one is going to willingly take poverty for 10 years to cash out. That means they take all the emotional toll, stress, ect of a relationship and being poor for 10 years to then get money later. Most average girls, aren't able to pull that off. People keep up a farce when they are getting benefits. Just watch how many relationships will come and go before med school is over. People that lie about their sexual orientation for personal gain are gaining an immediate advantage. There are huge advantages to being heterosexual. Most people can't even save enough for retirement or manage their finances but they are going to really struggle for 10 years to cash out!?

Anyhow, this doesn't matter. My wife makes way more than me and I'm going to be making nada for 10 years so this doesn't matter much. I can tell you don't have much experience because people's true colors show sooner or later. To use your words, they can keep it up for as long as they want as long as they get what they want. They won't be getting **** for 10 years. They will be older and if they don't have a ring on their finger by then, easily expendable with zero money.


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[Hustler101]

Incoming 23 y/o indian american MS1 who has been single for forever. I should have busted a move back in HS and college but I told myself "Hit the books, worry about all that later". Back in HS and college I was also pretty d*mn fat and combine that with my height (5ft 4)....I wasn't going to be getting any anyway. I didn't have much (in terms of family income) growing up and was just grateful to have the chance to attend a great undergrad. I wanted to make the most of it and like a clown told myself there would be time for relationships later.

Thankfully, over the past gap year since graduation, I've lost almost all that weight, have been putting on some muscle, and have been updating my clothes (kinda necessary because all the old stuff doesn't fit anyway). I'm determined to be more social come fall and hopefully someone (classmates, undergrads, someone in the area) might click. Yet I do feel, and am, painfully inexperienced. I'm a pretty funny guy (short & fat for quite a while= good at jokes), am alright in terms of looks besides my height (you are a cruel master genetics). I'm also feeling a bit more confident about myself in general considering my weight loss and that I was able to go from a solid undergrad to a solid med school. I.e. it feels good to be somewhat accomplished (I'm not a physician yet of course but I feel I have achieved something, even if it's small) Have any students found themselves in a similar situation? I feel I've gotta change it up. This is a long road and I can't keep delaying this part of life forever. Your thoughts, mockery, advice, tips, suggestions, etc all welcome.

note: I made a similar thread in spouses and partners but this is a bit different as I'm trying to ask my soon to be fellow classmates. I don't

Your success in the dating is largely a product of how attractive you are and a little bit of personality/luck. Money doesn't matter much for the vast majority of young women except legit gold diggers. Status matters... so for you you'll have that once you're an attending but your options will mostly be 25+ in age. Your life achievements don't mean much for dating unless they bring you major money/status.

 

[Hustler101]

You're assuming these girls have access to wealthy, connected investment bankers. You are bizarre. Its great that you have "dozens" of millionaire investment banker friends but please pull your head out of your behind and try to think of the dynamics of most of this country. Please try and convince me of how realistic that is. If said girl is in the environment of connected bankers and future bankers, she likely already has quite a bit of access to wealth from the start and no she is not typical. I'm talking about more "normal" girls, you're average state university grad who majored in childhood education or fashion design. Sorry bub, but she's not just walking down the street and bumping into wealthy investment bankers. Try again.

And who is they? Are you talking about gold diggers? They are gonna fake being with someone for 10 years!? What crack are you smoking?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk[/QUOTE]

Listen, you are lost if you think people can't and won't "be fake" for an opportunity that they want. There are people who lie about their entire sexual orientation their whole lives for personal convenience and gain. Honestly, whatever crack I'm smoking is apparently keeping me more grounded than you because you are lost. People can keep up a farce for however long they need to so long as they get what they want. If you didn't know this, I hope now you know. I'm fearful for you, honestly.[/QUOTE]
lol being a med student does nothing to help you in the dating game except to add a little bonus to a tiny % of girls.

 

[touchpause13]

I think its around 20-30% for educated people.

Of course feelings are naturally involved. I just found it a little odd that you were trying to convince another poster of this mystical experience that only occurs in romantic relationships and that it was just so different...just so so different that looking for the same traits as you do in your friends and knowing basic personality traits that you like to avoid is useless because a committed relationship is just....so different. It sounded very pre-teenish. However, if this is working for you, never let it go.



I cringed so hard reading this. You said that you throw more trust into the romantic partners you've had than your friend who's been by your side your whole life. Some would see this as a bad thing.

A lot of people, I hope, do see committed relationships as sort of an upgraded friendship because YOU DO have to screen out personality types, certain habits and lifestyles and (I think) you absolutely should be looking for personalities that you really enjoy being around. Nothing wrong with romantic feelings but your post (to me) seemed to place way too much emphasis on that for anything serious, healthy and long lasting. Life partners, people who decide to join their living spaces, finances and bloodlines I would think have to do it on the grounds of an honest, realistic partnership that to be pleasant would have to be formed on the basis of a grounded friendship.



Romantic feelings can come and go, and I just disagree that they can be the foundation of a healthy relationship. Shared values, similar outlooks, compatible lifestyles, living in the same area tend to lead to long satisfying friendships so I don't see how the other poster was wrong in using those same values to set a good foundation for a SO. Of course there would and should be a "spark" but a compatible foundation should have more chances of lasting.

I don't know if I'm just not explaining this well enough or what but my point isn't that it's all about some magic bull**** spark, it's that romantic relationships require a level of openness and honesty about things that most people are uncomfortable talking about that is very different than other relationships. It's not about having lovey dovey feels it's about being honest about emotions. I think your reading emotions as a particular set of feels when that's not what I mean.

 

[wiggitywack12]

Okay, so they have access to date plenty of med students, but not ibankers? The average girl isn't even going to be in the same circle to date a med student so I just assumed that was a given. If you are really talking about average, then I stand by my point. No one is going to willingly take poverty for 10 years to cash out. That means they take all the emotional toll, stress, ect of a relationship and being poor for 10 years to then get money later. Most average girls, aren't able to pull that off. People keep up a farce when they are getting benefits. Just watch how many relationships will come and go before med school is over. People that lie about their sexual orientation for personal gain are gaining an immediate advantage. There are huge advantages to being heterosexual. Most people can't even save enough for retirement or manage their finances but they are going to really struggle for 10 years to cash out!?

Anyhow, this doesn't matter. My wife makes way more than me and I'm going to be making nada for 10 years so this doesn't matter much. I can tell you don't have much experience because people's true colors show sooner or later. To use your words, they can keep it up for as long as they want as long as they get what they want. They won't be getting **** for 10 years. They will be older and if they don't have a ring on their finger by then, easily expendable with zero money.


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Honestly, I can tell that you're a little disconnected from what the majority of this country looks like. How many med schools are there? At least 100+. How many top I-Banking programs are there outside of Harvard and NYU? (are there more than 5 more? Probably not) .....in most of this country its a lot easier to end up dating a med student than it is to meet and date and I-banker, I know you don't get this but I continue talking to you anyways.

You've admitted that you're in quite the unique environment of knowing "dozens" of successful I-bankers and yet you're still trying to speak on what the average person would do to have access to a physician's salary. I'm guessing you live in the northeast so I'll continue to help you visualize reality. Outside of NYC, LA, CHI and Boston...a physician's salary can get a ~4,000 sq. ft. home, at least 1-2 sweet vacations a year, nice car and little to no daily budget restrictions for trivial things like where you get your makeup, coffee, etc. For a great majority of this country that is a very nice life style and in the same way that many parents brag about their child being a med student, women brag about their husband or boyfriend being a med student because they know the IMPLIED payoff. Again you are focused on the long haul but everyone knows the years will pass anyways and in much of this country after the years have passed they still won't be making what the physician makes even after debt payments. This is just fact. If you think that a girl in Virginia, South Carolina etc. isn't aware of the lifestyle she'll live if she can stay with the med student (which she'll do everything in her power to do) you are delusional.

If the guy is attracted to the girl and she can smile and play nice long enough, then no her "true colors" won't show. LOL. You really seem to lack a basic understanding of motivated behavior.


Your entire argument is that girls won't date med students for future money because somewhere, right now a lot of rich guys are living and breathing...lol no. That's not how life works.

 

[Hustler101]

Honestly, I can tell that you're a little disconnected from what the majority of this country looks like. How many med schools are there? At least 100+. How many top I-Banking programs are there outside of Harvard and NYU? (are there more than 5 more? Probably not) .....in most of this country its a lot easier to end up dating a med student than it is to meet and date and I-banker, I know you don't get this but I continue talking to you anyways.

You've admitted that you're in quite the unique environment of knowing "dozens" of successful I-bankers and yet you're still trying to speak on what the average person would do to have access to a physician's salary. I'm guessing you live in the northeast so I'll continue to help you visualize reality. Outside of NYC, LA, CHI and Boston...a physician's salary can get a ~4,000 sq. ft. home, at least 1-2 sweet vacations a year, nice car and little to no daily budget restrictions for trivial things like where you get your makeup, coffee, etc. For a great majority of this country that is a very nice life style and in the same way that many parents brag about their child being a med student, women brag about their husband or boyfriend being a med student because they know the IMPLIED payoff. Again you are focused on the long haul but everyone knows the years will pass anyways and in much of this country after the years have passed they still won't be making what the physician makes even after debt payments. This is just fact. If you think that a girl in Virginia, South Carolina etc. isn't aware of the lifestyle she'll live if she can stay with the med student (which she'll do everything in her power to do) you are delusional.

If the guy is attracted to the girl and she can smile and play nice long enough, then no her "true colors" won't show. LOL. You really seem to lack a basic understanding of motivated behavior.

And that's why med students/residents have such hot gfs and wives right? lol... Aside from attendings who make major coin and pursue things like sports cars etc. they also have spouses/partners that are on par with their own looks.

 

[2019mdtobe]

Any more shortie success stories?

 

[wiggitywack12]

And that's why med students/residents have such hot gfs and wives right? lol... Aside from attendings who make major coin and pursue things like sports cars etc. they also have spouses/partners that are on par with their own looks.

Why the assumption that she'd be "hot"? Why the assumption that all gold diggers are conventionally attractive? Maybe they're just "smart" about who they spend their time with. Again, I don't see anything wrong with preferring someone who has more resources over someone who doesn't. Its a personal choice.

This is the naivety I was originally talking about. You're looking for a stereotype and you don't know what it looks like in real life (outside of the entertainment world).

 

[drjay16]

Honestly, I can tell that you're a little disconnected from what the majority of this country looks like. How many med schools are there? At least 100+. How many top I-Banking programs are there outside of Harvard and NYU? (are there more than 5 more? Probably not) .....in most of this country its a lot easier to end up dating a med student than it is to meet and date and I-banker, I know you don't get this but I continue talking to you anyways.

You've admitted that you're in quite the unique environment of knowing "dozens" of successful I-bankers and yet you're still trying to speak on what the average person would do to have access to a physician's salary. I'm guessing you live in the northeast so I'll continue to help you visualize reality. Outside of NYC, LA, CHI and Boston...a physician's salary can get a ~4,000 sq. ft. home, at least 1-2 sweet vacations a year, nice car and little to no daily budget restrictions for trivial things like where you get your makeup, coffee, etc. For a great majority of this country that is a very nice life style and in the same way that many parents brag about their child being a med student, women brag about their husband or boyfriend being a med student because they know the IMPLIED payoff. Again you are focused on the long haul but everyone knows the years will pass anyways and in much of this country after the years have passed they still won't be making what the physician makes even after debt payments. This is just fact. If you think that a girl in Virginia, South Carolina etc. isn't aware of the lifestyle she'll live if she can stay with the med student (which she'll do everything in her power to do) you are delusional.

If the guy is attracted to the girl and she can smile and play nice long enough, then no her "true colors" won't show. LOL. You really seem to lack a basic understanding of motivated behavior.


Your entire argument is that girls won't date med students for future money because somewhere, right now a lot of rich guys are living and breathing...lol no. That's not how life works.

I'll make this easy for you.

1. Im in CA and there are more schools than Harvard and NYU that recruit for IBanking. Stanford, most of the Ivy League schools and a bunch of other top privates. You are looking at about 15-20 something schools for top firms and 50+ more for the less prestigious firms. Don't forget consulting too.
2. Do you know of girls that actually dream of dating a med student for their future income? I haven't met any, but maybe you know more about the country than I do, but I haven't heard of anything like that. I have heard of girls trying to date doctors, successful lawyers, ect, but not students for their future income. That makes sense to me, but a student!? Who the hell ever says that.
3. Also, the rest of the country doesn't matter outside of SF, LA, NYC, CHI, and Boston. Everyone knows that.

Maybe that scenerio works if he's just having sex with her. But most relationships rely more on substance, keeping a conversation, showing that you care. Motivated behavior exist, but again, but we are talking about a relationship here and people will have needs beyond sexual gratification. Emotional needs, etc, and if she's really not into him, it's going to be hard for her to keep that up. Not saying, it doesn't or can't happen, but it's not as easy as you make it seem. What happens when they get into fights, when things get nasty or he realizes she doesn't give a **** about him when he's down. Anyhow, if she's truly motivated by just money, she will want to marry him asap, not just date him.


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[Hustler101]

Why the assumption that she'd be "hot"? Why the assumption that all gold diggers are conventionally attractive? Maybe they're just "smart" about who they spend their time with. Again, I don't see anything wrong with preferring someone who has more resources over someone who doesn't. Its a personal choice.

This is the naivety I was originally talking about. You're looking for a stereotype and you don't know what it looks like in real life (outside of the entertainment world).

Cause a 4/10 overweight chick can sleep with a dozen attractive guys every single week for the rest of her life in western society. She can also receive free money from sugar daddies. And she'll wait years for a comfortable lifestyle? lolololol.

 

[wiggitywack12]

I'll make this easy for you.

1. Im in CA and there are more schools than Harvard and NYU that recruit for IBanking. Stanford, most of the Ivy League schools and a bunch of other top privates. You are looking at about 15-20 something schools for top firms and 50+ more for the less prestigious firms. Don't forget consulting too.
2. Do you know of girls that actually dream of dating a med student for their future income? I haven't met any, but maybe you know more about the country than I do, but I haven't heard of anything like that. I have heard of girls trying to date doctors, successful lawyers, ect, but not students for their future income. That makes sense to me, but a student!? Who the hell ever says that.
3. Also, the rest of the country doesn't matter outside of SF, LA, NYC, CHI, and Boston. Everyone knows that.

Maybe that scenerio works if he's just having sex with her. But most relationships rely more on substance, keeping a conversation, showing that you care. Motivated behavior exist, but again, but we are talking about a relationship here and people will have needs beyond sexual gratification. Emotional needs, etc, and if she's really not into him, it's going to be hard for her to keep that up. Not saying, it doesn't or can't happen, but it's not as easy as you make it seem. What happens when they get into fights, when things get nasty or he realizes she doesn't give a **** about him when he's down. Anyhow, if she's truly motivated by just money, she will want to marry him asap, not just date him.


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I'm not trying to be snarky. I really value your opinions and am enjoying this conversation with you, FYI.

1. California is a really expensive state. You guys are paying 800K to live in a dusty ranch home out there. When the big one comes and the whole state sinks into the ocean, most of you will deserve it. (this is a joke).

2. Yes, because in much of the country a doctor will give them a better lifestyle than an accountant, general manager etc. Students are future doctors so yeah...

3. LOL.

You'd be surprised how entranced guys can get on looks and an idea. If a guy is really into her look unfortunately many guys won't pick up on much because she's already pleasing him by looking and seeming like his ideal. I wish reality wasn't this simplistic but a lot of times it is. Both men and women can get really doe eyed in relationships and project their ideals onto someone and some take longer than others to realize that idealized person isn't really who they're dating.

 

[C@lidoc]

Why the assumption that she'd be "hot"? Why the assumption that all gold diggers are conventionally attractive? Maybe they're just "smart" about who they spend their time with. Again, I don't see anything wrong with preferring someone who has more resources over someone who doesn't. Its a personal choice.

This is the naivety I was originally talking about. You're looking for a stereotype and you don't know what it looks like in real life (outside of the entertainment world).

If she's not attractive, why settle if it's really about the money?

 

[wiggitywack12]

Cause a 4/10 overweight chick can sleep with a dozen attractive guys every single week for the rest of her life in western society. She can also receive free money from sugar daddies. And she'll wait years for a comfortable lifestyle? lolololol.

You're basically admitting to me that all you've done your whole life is watch porn and read internet theories.

Water seeks its own level more often than not. Guys can seem to be less discriminating with sex but mostly in my experience, attractive people prefer other attractive people and so forth. I've yet to see a 4/10 overweight chick with dozens of attractive men in any society, unless they have a niche preference for that type of woman. I think these are the fantasies of a bitter, undersexed mind.

And a "sugar daddy" is going to shell out a mcmansion, car, etc......okay kid, time to log off.

 

[drjay16]

I'm not trying to be snarky. I really value your opinions and am enjoying this conversation with you, FYI.

1. California is a really expensive state. You guys are paying 800K to live in a dusty ranch home out there. When the big one comes and the whole state sinks into the ocean, most of you will deserve it. (this is a joke).

2. Yes, because in much of the country a doctor will give them a better lifestyle than an accountant, general manager etc. Students are future doctors so yeah...

3. LOL.

You'd be surprised how entranced guys can get on looks and an idea. If a guy is really into her look unfortunately many guys won't pick up on much because she's already pleasing him by looking and seeming like his ideal. I wish reality wasn't this simplistic but a lot of times it is. Both men and women can get really doe eyed in relationships and project their ideals onto someone and some take longer than others to realize that idealized person isn't really who they're dating.

Hahaha, this is fun. I'm actually half joking and playing with you but cmon.

1. SF, SD, parts of LA and Venice beach. It's gorgeous out here. Dusty ranch? You must be thinking of Texas or something. There's a reason all my east coast friends never want to go back to their ****ty weather.

2. News to me. Maybe I'm just used to CA but people don't really try and lock students down. But I have seen lawyers and doctors with younger girls that may be after the money. I mean why waste your youth waiting for an investment when you can get it early in your mid 20s!?

Yep. I dig girls that look good but it's usually for sex and that's about it. I would have zero motivation of getting a gf/wife over just looks. FWB sure, but a wife or gf. She's gotta have a lot more going than just that. Maybe a casual gf though.


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[Hustler101]

Yeah, well, you aren't getting more attractive and in shape as you get older. Trust me. Snag a pretty one while you're young.

The problem is that one's face usually gets uglier with age (and way uglier when real aging comes along). You can always develop a really nice body but that usually compliments your face mostly (if at all).

 

[wiggitywack12]

If she's not attractive, why settle if it's really about the money?

That's the guys choice. I was saying its naive to think that future income potential isn't a factor at all in these relationships. I'm just telling you, it is. Be as naive as you want to be, but no girl at that age hasn't sized up what the lifestyle would be like. Who said its the only factor? She could like you too. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive, but don't think its not apart of your net worth.

 

[anaesthetic]

Honestly, I can tell that you're a little disconnected from what the majority of this country looks like. How many med schools are there? At least 100+. How many top I-Banking programs are there outside of Harvard and NYU? (are there more than 5 more? Probably not) .....in most of this country its a lot easier to end up dating a med student than it is to meet and date and I-banker, I know you don't get this but I continue talking to you anyways.

You've admitted that you're in quite the unique environment of knowing "dozens" of successful I-bankers and yet you're still trying to speak on what the average person would do to have access to a physician's salary. I'm guessing you live in the northeast so I'll continue to help you visualize reality. Outside of NYC, LA, CHI and Boston...a physician's salary can get a ~4,000 sq. ft. home, at least 1-2 sweet vacations a year, nice car and little to no daily budget restrictions for trivial things like where you get your makeup, coffee, etc. For a great majority of this country that is a very nice life style and in the same way that many parents brag about their child being a med student, women brag about their husband or boyfriend being a med student because they know the IMPLIED payoff. Again you are focused on the long haul but everyone knows the years will pass anyways and in much of this country after the years have passed they still won't be making what the physician makes even after debt payments. This is just fact. If you think that a girl in Virginia, South Carolina etc. isn't aware of the lifestyle she'll live if she can stay with the med student (which she'll do everything in her power to do) you are delusional.

If the guy is attracted to the girl and she can smile and play nice long enough, then no her "true colors" won't show. LOL. You really seem to lack a basic understanding of motivated behavior.

A GI attending took a couple of us MS4s out to lunch at Chipotle a few months ago when we were still doing "rotations" or whatever. I was talking about the price of guac, and he said, "I forgot you guys still pay attention to prices." He owns the biggest house in town and lives very comfortably.

I didn't have the best circle of friends before medical school, so I know where you're coming from. A lot of my FB friends talk about "life goals" and "not having to look at the price tag while shopping" later on in life, but their career tracks are not going to be pulling in that kind of money. It makes me wonder what their motives are, but I don't hold it against them. Everybody wants to live comfortably, and if that means sacrificing the 10/10 model soulmate for a 6-7/10 nice guy doctor, so be it. Sometimes it works out. I think there are a lot of relationships that start with good intentions that don't end up working out. I agree that there will be some poor doctors out there who will get robbed blind, but who cares? It happens to the best of people. I dated one of the girls that talked about her "life goals." She was attractive but ended up being pretty empty inside. It was good while it lasted *nudge nudge wink wink*. Say no more.

 

[C@lidoc]

That's the guys choice. I was saying its naive to think that future income potential isn't a factor at all in these relationships. I'm just telling you, it is. Be as naive as you want to be, but no girl at that age hasn't sized up what the lifestyle would be like. Who said its the only factor? She could like you too. Those two things aren't mutually exclusive, but don't think its not apart of your net worth.

Of course it is! If a guy is a bum, no one will want to date him with zero income. It's just not as important for most people as you think. The difference between 100k, 200k, 300k, most people don't know how that actually translated into different lifestyles. It's not like someone is going to automatically pick a 300k earner over 100k. It's just a small part, just like looks, personality, etc. It's the whole package. I don;t think anyone thinks money plays zero influence. For me personally, I wouldn't date anyone that was making a decent living. Just not for me.

Edit: I live in SF and get paid well so I realize this may not apply to people making 40-50k, etc but my point is there is a threshold past which it doesn't become that important. Combination of looks, personality, potential earnings, family, etc is what matters.

 

[2019mdtobe]

Idk wats going on right now. Lets get back to short guy successes

 

[Hustler101]

You're basically admitting to me that all you've done your whole life is watch porn and read internet theories.

Water seeks its own level more often than not. Guys can seem to be less discriminating with sex but mostly in my experience, attractive people prefer other attractive people and so forth. I've yet to see a 4/10 overweight chick with dozens of attractive men in any society, unless they have a niche preference for that type of woman. I think these are the fantasies of a bitter, undersexed mind.

And a "sugar daddy" is going to shell out a mcmansion, car, etc......okay kid, time to log off.

Dude I've been on 40+ tinder dates (aka hook ups) since last summer. Been around the bar/club scene for a couple of years. Had a couple long term relationships.

4/10s can easily get laid with attractive guys. Wanna know how? Simple... go on an online dating site as a 4/10 female and take your pick of the 500 messages you get daily. The top 5-10% of guys will be constantly hooking up with the entire female population. Then at age 30 they'll find a doctor/lawyer for their mansion/car. Cause guess what? Women will always have options and tons of them.

Your posts clearly indicate that you have 0 experience with casual sex and it's hilarious that you think being a med student actually attracts gold diggers. Maybe a psychotic one who cheats nonstop lol.

 

[C@lidoc]

Idk wats going on right now. Lets get back to short guy successes

LOL. Did you read my earlier post. Even at 5"4 you can still make it. I'd personally get started on Tinder.

 

[Hustler101]

Of course it is! If a guy is a bum, no one will want to date him with zero income. It's just not as important for most people as you think. The difference between 100k, 200k, 300k, most people don't know how that actually translated into different lifestyles. It's not like someone is going to automatically pick a 300k earner over 100k. It's just a small part, just like looks, personality, etc. It's the whole package. I don;t think anyone thinks money plays zero influence. For me personally, I wouldn't date anyone that was making a decent living. Just not for me.

Edit: I live in SF and get paid well so I realize this may not apply to people making 40-50k, etc but my point is there is a threshold past which it doesn't become that important. Combination of looks, personality, potential earnings, family, etc is what matters.

The 3 hottest girls I know are making fairly decent incomes and their fiances/husbands are unemployed/laid off lol. They gladly support them. The guys however are very good looking.

Most of the attractive girls I know in their early to late 20s make way more than their bf or whoever does. But again the guy is very attractive which shows it's significant value for men.

 

[PL198]

I have no idea wtf is with this forums obsession with Ibankers. I swear the average person on this forum thinks being an Ibanker means you're king of the world, you work 20 hours a week, you make 10000000000000 dollars a year, you have a supermodel wife and you alternate between a ferrari and an audi r8 as your daily driver

 

[C@lidoc]

I have no idea wtf is with this forums obsession with Ibankers. I swear the average person on this forum thinks being an Ibanker means you're king of the world, you work 20 hours a week, you make 10000000000000 dollars a year, you have a supermodel wife and you alternate between a ferrari and an audi r8 as your daily driver

Who saays ibankers barely work? They work 80-120 hours a week. One of my friends almost died because he was driving home from his office at 4am only to be back at 7am. You can pull close to 200k and most people only do it for 2-3 years before they move on to something more sustainable. Private Equity is where it's at.

 

[WingedOx]

I have no idea wtf is with this forums obsession with Ibankers. I swear the average person on this forum thinks being an Ibanker means you're king of the world, you work 20 hours a week, you make 10000000000000 dollars a year, you have a supermodel wife and you alternate between a ferrari and an audi r8 as your daily driver

Seriously. I made that point in one of the other pre-allo threads. It's one of the dumber obsessions of coastal college students and high schoolers.

 

[C@lidoc]

The 3 hottest girls I know are making fairly decent incomes and their fiances/husbands are unemployed/laid off lol. They gladly support them. The guys however are very good looking.

Most of the attractive girls I know in their early to late 20s make way more than their bf or whoever does. But again the guy is very attractive which shows it's significant value for men.

Being good looking can get you far. No doubt about that, however, I would say you have to be very good looking for this to happen. Most people aren't hot enough to pull that ****.

 

[Hustler101]

Being good looking can get you far. No doubt about that, however, I would say you have to be very good looking for this to happen. Most people aren't hot enough to pull that ****.

I'd say the top 2-3% of males can pull it off for sure. If you aren't top 10-15% you're going to struggle with dating and specifically dating the people you really want.

As you can see: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-looks-and-online-dating/ women find 80% of men unattractive whereas men's perception of women follows a bell curve distribution.

 

[PL198]

Who saays ibankers barely work? They work 80-120 hours a week. One of my friends almost died because he was driving home from his office at 4am only to be back at 7am. You can pull close to 200k and most people only do it for 2-3 years before they move on to something more sustainable. Private Equity is where it's at.

my point is that everyone acts like it's the ideal profession or whatever.

which is hilarious because it's almost entirely the opposite of medicine in every aspect, so the people who are compatible for one would likely not fare well in the other.

 

[wiggitywack12]

Dude I've been on 40+ tinder dates (aka hook ups) since last summer. Been around the bar/club scene for a couple of years. Had a couple long term relationships.

4/10s can easily get laid with attractive guys. Wanna know how? Simple... go on an online dating site as a 4/10 female and take your pick of the 500 messages you get daily. The top 5-10% of guys will be constantly hooking up with the entire female population. Then at age 30 they'll find a doctor/lawyer for their mansion/car. Cause guess what? Women will always have options and tons of them.

Your posts clearly indicate that you have 0 experience with casual sex and it's hilarious that you think being a med student actually attracts gold diggers. Maybe a psychotic one who cheats nonstop lol.

Alright kiddo, cool story. Now give mommy her iPad back.

 

[Hustler101]

my point is that everyone acts like it's the ideal profession or whatever.

which is hilarious because it's almost entirely the opposite of medicine in every aspect, so the people who are compatible for one would likely not fare well in the other.

Usually it's guys/girls with zero experience in anything business related who always say "go into business if you want to make money." I literally laugh every time I hear that.

 

[Hustler101]

Alright kiddo, cool story. Now give mommy her iPad back.

okay bruh.

Keep living in fantasy land and telling girls in bars that you're a med student in hopes of getting a dinner date.

 

[C@lidoc]

my point is that everyone acts like it's the ideal profession or whatever.

which is hilarious because it's almost entirely the opposite of medicine in every aspect, so the people who are compatible for one would likely not fare well in the other.

Totally agree. But I think it's those same people asking how much money they can make if they go into a lucrative medical specialty. I think it's a great profession for those that are really money driven.

 

[wiggitywack12]

.

 

[C@lidoc]

I'd say the top 2-3% of males can pull it off for sure. If you aren't top 10-15% you're going to struggle with dating and specifically dating the people you really want.

As you can see: http://blog.okcupid.com/index.php/your-looks-and-online-dating/ women find 80% of men unattractive whereas men's perception of women follows a bell curve distribution.

Ya, that doesn't apply to most people. You can get away with a lot more in life when you are in the top 2-3% in attractiveness.

 

[wiggitywack12]

okay bruh.

Keep living in fantasy land and telling girls in bars that you're a med student in hopes of getting a dinner date.

Is this the same land where all your tinder dates and hookups with 4/10s happens (btw, numerical rankings for attractiveness reek of immaturity and inexperience)? I've never been there, don't plan to visit....

I never said go into bars and tell girls your a med student. I said don't think that the girl without a lucrative career trajectory of her own hasn't thought about her boyfriends future income if he's a med student.

 

[Hustler101]

Ya, that doesn't apply to most people. You can get away with a lot more in life when you are in the top 2-3% in attractiveness.

Correct but it also shows it's value. Most people are 5/10 or so but it's a major challenge for guys since women can wear make up and tight clothing --> automatically bumped to a 7.

Is this the same land where all your tinder dates and hookups with 4/10s happens (btw, numerical rankings for attractiveness reek of immaturity and inexperience)? I've never been there, don't plan to visit....

I never said go into bars and tell girls your a med student. I said don't think that the girl without a lucrative career trajectory of her own hasn't thought about her boyfriends future income if he's a med student.

You're thinking of the 80s, maybe the 90s. No gold digger will wait years during their prime time for their bf to become an attending (people on here have told you that already).
And btw it's hilarious that what I said actually surprised you in anyway. Anyone with experience with casual sex knows what I said is seen commonly in the online dating world.
Numerical rankings are a way to communicate one's perception of someone else. Nothing more.

 

[wiggitywack12]

You're thinking of the 80s, maybe the 90s. No gold digger will wait years during their prime time for their bf to become an attending (people on here have told you that already).
And btw it's hilarious that what I said actually surprised you in anyway. Anyone with experience with casual sex knows what I said is seen commonly in the online dating world.
Numerical rankings are a way to communicate one's perception of someone else. Nothing more.

Errrm. No. Literally no. What exactly is your definition of a gold digger? A girl who tries to hang around athletes + entertainers for quick money and trinkets??? Maybe there are different types of "Gold diggers" but in an area of the country where doctors are more local and accessible you're seriously just unlearned about female psychology if you think the future doctor doesn't excite someone looking for a nice lifestyle more than a future cubicle worker. Funny how guys like you think they know so much about female psychology. You literally know nothing. Nada. Zip.

Also what do guys really think the girls being passed around by guys who "already have money" are really getting...not much. The entire point of that game is to take as much as you can and give the least. You also show how naive you are about the real world when you say things like that.

Yep, I wanna gold dig y'all hold up let me go snag an I-banker real quick. LOL. There's a lot in your posts that give away how naive you are dude.

 

[Bea5T]

Hope I'm not derailing here....but this is a little naive. I hope you don't seriously believe that a girl dating a med student (without a lucrative career path of her own) hasn't already contemplated the financial benefits for herself of being married to a physician salary. I feel sorry for some guys sometimes. I'm not trying to be condescending I just really want you to know that girls interested in living a life of leisure while someone else works absolutely knows the benefits of a future physician and just like you, they are willing to stick it out (if they can keep you) until the checks start rolling in.

I'll give you an anecdote. My undergrad had an attached accelerated BS/MD program and this good natured naive guy was dating this art major. She always went on and on about how gold diggers were dumb and how she wasn't in it for the money because he wouldn't be making any for a while. When the relationship ended, she flipped! She caused so much drama between him and his friends, literally stalked everyone trying to repair what had already fallen apart and it came back to him that she was telling her art friends "Now I'll actually have to work!" She was very pissed for a long time ....but gold diggers are stupid eh?

A lot of you don't really understand what gold diggers look like in every day life and I didn't realize this. Now I get how some of you are getting played so easily (please don't take this personally, this is a message board where we all share information when we can I'm not trying to belittle anyone).

Please understand though, that those girls-- especially the ones without any high income earning potential of their own, are ALWAYS aware of your earning potential and yes, it is a factor.

Sounds like some of you have a very television like caricature of what a gold digger is, like the playboy bunny sitting court side at some NBA game or something lol and while that does happen, some of you seem to be missing the type of "gold digger" that would actually target you.

Also, I don't necessarily think gold digging is a bad thing, it would depend more so on the motives. If a woman is bringing a lot of other things to the partnership and would help the man achieve his vision for what he wants in his life then I don't really see anything wrong with a woman wanting a man with means.

/rant

Oh lord. It's like a date = guaranteed longterm relationship with no return with you guys. If anyone's naive it's the ones who are unable to differentiate from gold diggers to someone who is legitimately interested in your career. And god forbid a women has a nice career herself too(They do exist, I promise)