Ugh...advice please?

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JimmyB123

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I really didn't know which forum to post this one so if moderators wish to move it to another forum, that's fine.

I've known for quite a while that I will be going to a DO school in the fall. But this cycle I also applied to MD schools as well as a post-bac with direct linkage to an MD school. I didn't get into any MD school but got into my DO school of choice and am very content. However, I recently interviewed for the post-bac program and earlier this week was accepted. Basically I would do a 1 year post-bac and then assuming I get at least a 30 on the MCAT and keep a 3.5 GPA in the program, I would automatically matriculate into the med school class the following year (allopathic school).

Mentally I'm ready to start medical school this fall and don't really want to delay the process one more year. I would also be forfeiting one year of physician salary if I go into the post-bac program (and taking on more debt). It would also be somewhat of a risk because I do need to maintain certain academics in order to matriculate into the medical school. I'm also a pretty big fan of the geographical area that my DO school is in. So all these reasons tell me to just go ahead and start medical school this fall and forget about the post-bac program. But I'm also realizing that I may be in a better position when it comes to applying for residencies if I end up at an allopathic school. Sorry for bringing up a topic that has been beaten to death, but I think my situation is kind of specific, so any advice is appreciated. I'm trying to make this decision soon because I'm going on a long vacation and don't want it hanging over my head. Thanks.

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Go to the DO school. This is a no-brainer.

To clarify - turning down an acceptance to a US medical school, DO or MD, is not a good idea. Not only are you adding to your debt by doing a post-bacc, but you're essentially doing extra work with no guarantee that it will pay off. If you do poorly in the post-bacc, or run into some poor luck in the next interview cycle, what if you end up with zero acceptances?
I don't believe MD and DO schools cross communicate but I would certainly think that DO schools would know you had an acceptance last year and for some reason turned it down (at least, I know MD schools can see if a student has an acceptance after the April/May deadline).

There is no reason to jeopardize your future by trying to play with fire. Go to the DO school you got into, bust your ass and you're probably not going to have too many doors closed to you. It's just going to take a lot more work.
 
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The real question is if you could get a 30 on the MCAT. Something tells me if you could've, you'd gotten more MD acceptances anyway.
 
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i checked the OP's previous posts; he got more than 30 on MCAT.
 
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Go to the DO school. This is a no-brainer.

To clarify - turning down an acceptance to a US medical school, DO or MD, is not a good idea. Not only are you adding to your debt by doing a post-bacc, but you're essentially doing extra work with no guarantee that it will pay off. If you do poorly in the post-bacc, or run into some poor luck in the next interview cycle, what if you end up with zero acceptances?
I don't believe MD and DO schools cross communicate but I would certainly think that DO schools would know you had an acceptance last year and for some reason turned it down (at least, I know MD schools can see if a student has an acceptance after the April/May deadline).

There is no reason to jeopardize your future by trying to play with fire. Go to the DO school you got into, bust your ass and you're probably not going to have too many doors closed to you. It's just going to take a lot more work.

Thank you for your response. I'm 80% sure I'll just start medical school this fall but I just wanted to play my options out. If I end up not keeping a 3.5 in the post bac program, I would have just shot my self in the foot career wise.
 
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Do the post bacc if you've already gotten a 30+ on the mcat and take care of business to get 3.5+. I say this as a fourth year DO student who has matched into an acgme residency, but with the uncertainty around the pending merger, the heightened difficulty to match as a DO in competitive specialties, it's really a no brainer imo. People will say you have the same opportunities, and they're right to a certain extent - but it is more difficult, and the returns are significantly different with the same stats for MD vs DO. if you've already got a 30+mcat, and can bust your a** to guarantee a 3.5 gpa then go MD.
 
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Thank you for your response. I'm 80% sure I will go ahead and start medical school but I just wanted to play my options out. If I end up not keeping a 3.5 in the post bac program, I would have just shot my self in the foot career wise.

If you end up keeping a 3.5+ in the post-bacc and still don't get into an MD school, you're even more screwed. It sounds like you're happy with the DO school you got into, so go there. Chances are, it won't make a huuuuge difference unless you want a hyper-competitive specialty. And even then, there are exceptions to every rule. You're just going to need to jump through a few more hoops to get there.

Edit - I misread your original post regarding the 3.5 -> guaranteed acceptance linkage. If you're highly highly confident in your abilities to do this, then go for it. But it's still a risk.
 
Do the post bacc if you've already gotten a 30+ on the mcat and take care of business to get 3.5+. I say this as a fourth year DO student who has matched into an acgme residency, but with the uncertainty around the pending merger, the heightened difficulty to match as a DO in competitive specialties, it's really a no brainer imo. People will say you have the same opportunities, and they're right to a certain extent - but it is more difficult, and the returns are significantly different with the same stats for MD vs DO. if you've already got a 30+mcat, and can bust your a** to guarantee a 3.5 gpa then go MD.

30+ comes in a wide variety....with the matriculation average now sitting around the 32-33 range for MD schools it's not a given than even a strong post-bacc performance is going to get him accepted. Especially since he'll be a reapplicant. It seems like a huge risk, at least from my perspective.

Edit - Misread his original post about the guaranteed acceptance with a 3.5. That changes things a bit but it still seems a bit risky.
 
I really didn't know which forum to post this one so if moderators wish to move it to another forum, that's fine.

I've known for quite a while that I will be going to a DO school in the fall. But this cycle I also applied to MD schools as well as a post-bac with direct linkage to an MD school. I didn't get into any MD school but got into my DO school of choice and am very content. However, I recently interviewed for the post-bac program and earlier this week was accepted. Basically I would do a 1 year post-bac and then assuming I get at least a 30 on the MCAT and keep a 3.5 GPA in the program, I would automatically matriculate into the med school class the following year (allopathic school).

Mentally I'm ready to start medical school this fall and don't really want to delay the process one more year. I would also be forfeiting one year of physician salary if I go into the post-bac program (and taking on more debt). It would also be somewhat of a risk because I do need to maintain certain academics in order to matriculate into the medical school. I'm also a pretty big fan of the geographical area that my DO school is in. So all these reasons tell me to just go ahead and start medical school this fall and forget about the post-bac program. But I'm also realizing that I may be in a better position when it comes to applying for residencies if I end up at an allopathic school. Sorry for bringing up a topic that has been beaten to death, but I think my situation is kind of specific, so any advice is appreciated. I'm trying to make this decision soon because I'm going on a long vacation and don't want it hanging over my head. Thanks.
I am in a very similar situation to you and have also applied to post bac programs with guaranteed linkage. Is this Temple you are talking about out of curiosity?
 
I really didn't know which forum to post this one so if moderators wish to move it to another forum, that's fine.

I've known for quite a while that I will be going to a DO school in the fall. But this cycle I also applied to MD schools as well as a post-bac with direct linkage to an MD school. I didn't get into any MD school but got into my DO school of choice and am very content. However, I recently interviewed for the post-bac program and earlier this week was accepted. Basically I would do a 1 year post-bac and then assuming I get at least a 30 on the MCAT and keep a 3.5 GPA in the program, I would automatically matriculate into the med school class the following year (allopathic school).

Mentally I'm ready to start medical school this fall and don't really want to delay the process one more year. I would also be forfeiting one year of physician salary if I go into the post-bac program (and taking on more debt). It would also be somewhat of a risk because I do need to maintain certain academics in order to matriculate into the medical school. I'm also a pretty big fan of the geographical area that my DO school is in. So all these reasons tell me to just go ahead and start medical school this fall and forget about the post-bac program. But I'm also realizing that I may be in a better position when it comes to applying for residencies if I end up at an allopathic school. Sorry for bringing up a topic that has been beaten to death, but I think my situation is kind of specific, so any advice is appreciated. I'm trying to make this decision soon because I'm going on a long vacation and don't want it hanging over my head. Thanks.
What specialties are you looking at?
 
I am in a very similar situation to you and have also applied to post bac programs with guaranteed linkage. Is this Temple you are talking about out of curiosity?

Yup. It's indeed a unique situation.
 
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I understand what you mean, @ thirdlevel. My post was predicated on the assumption that if he meets the required stipulations he is guaranteed a seat. If he has already gotten a 30+ on the mcat then he's halfway home. I agree it's a risk, but worth it if fresh from undergrad. FTR I have no problem with my DO education, and am very happy with my match, but being a DO brought some unnecessary hassle and if the OP can avoid that, I'm all for it.
 
What specialties are you looking at?

I'm currently looking at general surgery (not too keen about fellowship but CT sounds cool) and emergency medicine with a budding interest in cardiology. Wide variety I know.
 
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Well congratulations! I also got into my top choice DO and have applied to this program. If it helps you at all, I intend on attending Temple if offered a seat.
 
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I'm currently looking at general surgery (not too keen about fellowship but CT sounds cool) and emergency medicine with a budding interest in cardiology. Wide variety I know.

Gen Surg is competitive, but not enough so that you'd be at an insurmountable disadvantage as a DO. Emergency Med is not particularly competitive, but is becoming more sought after. IM would not be an issue.

From what I understand, fellowships are going to rely more on what you do during your residency than what you did during medical school.
 
30+ comes in a wide variety....with the matriculation average now sitting around the 32-33 range for MD schools it's not a given than even a strong post-bacc performance is going to get him accepted.

matriculation average is barely 31 right now. Certainly not 32-33.
 
32 is probably the median...

Entirely possible. In any case, I missed OP's point about having a guaranteed spot with a 3.5+ in his post-bacc, so this is almost moot. My mistake.
 
I would do the post bacc. Gen surg is competitive. The post bacc will give you an edge in med school too so you can position yourself well for residency, leaving as many options open as possible should you become interested in something more competitive. If you know why your applications were weak, then you can get a fresh start and make the necessary changes without having your current deficiencies holding you at a disadvantage.
On the other hand, you applied to the DO schools for a reason... If you're older, have a family, or are just interested in getting through school and finding a primary care, hospitalist or ER (non academic) job ASAP then go for the DO. But cardiology is also very competitive and if you end up in a weak IM program bc you weren't the best at your DO school, then you will continually be fighting an uphill battle.
 
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Go DO! Delaying a year is definitely not worth it. Work hard then you will get in gen Surg with no problem.
 
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I didn't get into any MD school but got into my DO school of choice and am very content.

That says it all right there. Take it and run and don't look back.

Sure you could do the post bacc and get into the md school after a year. However there's always the risk that you don't get that guaranteed admission you were promised. I've seen BS/MD kids lose their "guaranteed acceptance" and were forced to apply to the field of med schools and face the uncertainty they expected to avoid.

There are very few certainties in our life and in cases likes these, the risk of losing it all for a marginal benefit just isn't worth it.
 
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I don't know, this is tough. Obviously, having a DO acceptance in hand is golden. If you read my signature, you know my party line. By the time you apply for residency, all programs will be accredited by the ACGME. Yay.

HOWEVER, that does not mean the very real DO stigma will evaporate. (Let's not start a flame war, DOs before hoes). I know this is very difficult to answer, but do you have any idea of what specialty you're interested in? I know it's super early to think about that, but, NRMP data does not lie. I'm just gonna throw it out there, traditionally, in historically ACGME/MD programs, DO's have difficulty getting into surgical subspecialties + derm. Of course, AOA programs in those specialties do exist, but how many positions will be available depends on the effects of the newly applied ACGME sieve, effects no one can accurately predict. And Congress is not scrambling to fund more ophthalmology spots. If primary care is your thing, DO all the way.

Word on the street is Temple's linkage program has a 92% success rate, the 8% being people who quit or couldn't break a 30 MCAT. You already have a 30+ MCAT.

EDIT: saw you're interested in Gen Surg/CT/ER/Cardio
 
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If you're interested in surgery and might possibly want to do a fellowship then I would go MD.
 
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I really didn't know which forum to post this one so if moderators wish to move it to another forum, that's fine.

I've known for quite a while that I will be going to a DO school in the fall. But this cycle I also applied to MD schools as well as a post-bac with direct linkage to an MD school. I didn't get into any MD school but got into my DO school of choice and am very content. However, I recently interviewed for the post-bac program and earlier this week was accepted. Basically I would do a 1 year post-bac and then assuming I get at least a 30 on the MCAT and keep a 3.5 GPA in the program, I would automatically matriculate into the med school class the following year (allopathic school).

Mentally I'm ready to start medical school this fall and don't really want to delay the process one more year. I would also be forfeiting one year of physician salary if I go into the post-bac program (and taking on more debt). It would also be somewhat of a risk because I do need to maintain certain academics in order to matriculate into the medical school. I'm also a pretty big fan of the geographical area that my DO school is in. So all these reasons tell me to just go ahead and start medical school this fall and forget about the post-bac program. But I'm also realizing that I may be in a better position when it comes to applying for residencies if I end up at an allopathic school. Sorry for bringing up a topic that has been beaten to death, but I think my situation is kind of specific, so any advice is appreciated. I'm trying to make this decision soon because I'm going on a long vacation and don't want it hanging over my head. Thanks.

go MD. more doors will be open to you. one year is nothing, and it sounds like your risk for not making the 30/3.5 is minimal.
 
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If you already have a 30+ MCAT just do the Temple program.
 
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If you're interested in surgery and might possibly want to do I fellowship then I would go MD.

There's still a sizable DO bias in surgery and surgical subspecialties. Yes, there are AOA programs, but they are fewer, less academic (=less fellowship opportunities), and there is much more heterogeneity in program quality (this will diminish with the ACGME/AOA merger).

MD opens more doors. DO doesn't necessarily close them, but it's harder.
 
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Gen Surg is competitive, but not enough so that you'd be at an insurmountable disadvantage as a DO. Emergency Med is not particularly competitive, but is becoming more sought after. IM would not be an issue.

EM is actually competitive and getting more competitive each year. It's not derm or ortho, but I wouldn't go into school thinking that it's not competitive if that's your dream specialty or something.
 
Hey guys thanks for all your responses. What if I want to practice in the community and not in academics? Still do the post bac?
 
Hey guys thanks for all your responses. What if I want to practice in the community and not in academics? Still do the post bac?
This is my plan and I plan on taking the post bac if offered to me
 
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Hey guys thanks for all your responses. What if I want to practice in the community and not in academics? Still do the post bac?

How do you feel about spending five years in Philadelphia compared to your DO school's city?

Don't underestimate the difficulty of medical training, and being close to your support system can make a huge difference.
 
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You're certainly in a tough position. I had to make a similar decision and chose the DO school. Here's how I see it:

1. You have an acceptance to a US medical school.
2. Life is unpredictable. Sure, you could keep a 3.5 GPA and matriculate into the allopathic program. Or, something unpredictable/unfortunate could happen causing you to lose your 3.5 GPA, and you'd eliminate your shot at BOTH the allopathic program and the osteopathic program. Then you'd be stuck applying, again, and would have to explain why you turned down a previous acceptance AND why you couldn't keep a 3.5 GPA in a post-bacc program.... which would surely impair your ability to be accepted at any allopathic medical school. That would seriously suck.

Basically, I think it's too risky to turn down your acceptance, especially since it's in a geographic area you like. I'm a 3rd year osteopathic medical student interested in allopathic general surgery which, despite being of only average competitiveness for allopathic medical students, is inexplicably more difficult for osteopathic medical students to match into. However, most of my "limitations" are due to geographic restrictions, not the fact that I attend a DO school. Also, it's important to keep in mind that the specialties that maintain an anti-DO bias (with the exception of gen surg) are also extremely competitive for allopathic students (optho, derm, uro, ENT, neuro surg). Going the DO route might create a couple more hoops to jump through, but I think the benefit of starting medical school now outweighs the risk of declining an acceptance to enter a post-bacc program which may or may not lead to acceptance into an allopathic program.

Just my two cents.

As of right now, I do not regret my decision to go to a DO school.
 
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I spent 2 years after undergrad working on my GPA and retaking the MCAT. I did not apply to DO schools, because I did not want to be in your position of having to turn down an acceptance. It was partly a pride thing but partly because I was pretty sure I wanted to do surgery. Thank goodness I went to an MD school because the number of DOs that matched into my chosen specialty was maybe 1 or 2 out of almost 300 MDs. The AOA residency counterparts are also generally weak in comparison and not likely to get you to an academic career. Every specialty in the match seems to be getting more competitive (except radiology) so I would advise anyone on the cusp of gaining MD acceptance to be patient and make it happen. I think you should do the post-bacc. You will not regret it. You WILL regret DO if you want to do almost anything other than primary care, neurology, or psychiatry. Once you are in the interview/match process you will realize that there are great differences between training programs and you want the best you can. Yes, DOs can match in any field but in general they are not the top programs.
 
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I spent 2 years after undergrad working on my GPA and retaking the MCAT. I did not apply to DO schools, because I did not want to be in your position of having to turn down an acceptance. It was partly a pride thing but partly because I was pretty sure I wanted to do surgery. Thank goodness I went to an MD school because the number of DOs that matched into my chosen specialty was maybe 1 or 2 out of almost 300 MDs. The AOA residency counterparts are also generally weak in comparison and not likely to get you to an academic career. Every specialty in the match seems to be getting more competitive (except radiology) so I would advise anyone on the cusp of gaining MD acceptance to be patient and make it happen. I think you should do the post-bacc. You will not regret it. You WILL regret DO if you want to do almost anything other than primary care, neurology, or psychiatry. Once you are in the interview/match process you will realize that there are great differences between training programs and you want the best you can. Yes, DOs can match in any field but in general they are not the top programs.
Most of your points are valid, but I would argue that a student who is borderline competitive now isn't going to match at a top program regardless of MD or DO after their name. Yes, there is a stigma against DOs, but it's not like having an MD you can all of the sudden be mediocre and still match into decent programs. I'd imagine a 220 Step 1 MD vs. 220 Step 1 DO would have similar prospects as far as residency placement.
 
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Yes, there is a stigma against DOs, but it's not like having an MD you can all of the sudden be mediocre and still match into decent programs. I'd imagine a 220 Step 1 MD vs. 220 Step 1 DO would have similar prospects as far as residency placement.

If your choice is between low-tier allopathic and osteopathic, you should go allopathic BECAUSE an allopathic 220 Step 1 is definitely preferred to an Osteopathic 220 Step 1. At least right now. And not in all programs. But many. I'd even wager most.

But the choice is a bird in the hand versus 250 thousand dollars of tuition/lost attending salary for a pretty good CHANCE at an MD.

To me the choice is really obvious unless you are already 100% set on a surgical residency, where I can see the DO bias being relevant enough to convince you to make that risky decision.

Although for general surgery, I'd recommend MD only if your end-goal is to match into a highly competitive fellowship or to have an academic career. Since this applies to <10% of all medical students, I think my best blanket advice is not to look a gift horse in the mouth.
 
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Most of your points are valid, but I would argue that a student who is borderline competitive now isn't going to match at a top program regardless of MD or DO after their name. Yes, there is a stigma against DOs, but it's not like having an MD you can all of the sudden be mediocre and still match into decent programs. I'd imagine a 220 Step 1 MD vs. 220 Step 1 DO would have similar prospects as far as residency placement.

I have heard that argument on here many times, but it is not universally true. If the poor grades are from early in undergrad then it's very likely that the student can continue to improve during med school. The MD erases a lot of the stigma and no one knows what grades you got in general chemistry! If someone scored 30+ on the MCAT then I say, if they have the drive, it is entirely possible to out-compete your peers and get into a great residency program. The DO stigma follows you. I am sure my undergraduate grades were far worse than many of my co-applicants, and simply being an MD meant I got more/better interviews. The same thing is true regarding the tier of your medical school. My classmates and I were shut out from the top top programs simply coming from a small state MD school. I say stack as many cards as you can in your favor.

Source: I just completed the match process.
 
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Although for general surgery, I'd recommend MD only if your end-goal is to match into a highly competitive fellowship or to have an academic career. Since this applies to <10% of all medical students, I think my best blanket advice is not to look a gift horse in the mouth.

I love learning new idioms, thanks.
 
The real question is if you could get a 30 on the MCAT. Something tells me if you could've, you'd gotten more MD acceptances anyway.
No. There are dozens of kids in my DO class with 32+ MCATs.

I vote post-bac/MD if and only if you already got a 30+ MCAT and it truly is a guarantee with a 3.5. Then bust your goddamn ass in the post bac. All your work will pay off for M1 anyway.
 
Most of your points are valid, but I would argue that a student who is borderline competitive now isn't going to match at a top program regardless of MD or DO after their name. Yes, there is a stigma against DOs, but it's not like having an MD you can all of the sudden be mediocre and still match into decent programs. I'd imagine a 220 Step 1 MD vs. 220 Step 1 DO would have similar prospects as far as residency placement.

Ignoring the simple fact that many top residencies still don't accept DO applicants, a 220 MD applicant will likely be far more successful at getting interviews at competitive programs in desirable locations vs their 220 DO counterpart.

Sure, neither applicant is getting into Harvard or Stanford, but when it comes to solid mid tier programs in major cities or on the coasts, the MD applicant will definitely have a better shot at matching.

(This is assuming both applicants have similar grades, LORs, and ECs)
 
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If you wanted to go into PC then I would tell you to take the DO acceptance and call it a day.

My advice to you right now is to go read post interview reports from people who scored 245+ on Step 1 and see what they have to say. I'm not going to lie, it breaks my heart when I see applicants who busted their butts for years get turned away from programs just because they are a DO. They had to apply at more places to get the same amount of interviews as MD applicants who scored ~230. A bunch of those posts end in "I matched at a mid-tier institution and I'm happy" but I always get the sense they wonder "What if I had taken the other route?"

Things aren't going to change for a few years. If you're comfortable with that then take the DO acceptance.
 
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Ignoring the simple fact that many top residencies still don't accept DO applicants, a 220 MD applicant will likely be far more successful at getting interviews at competitive programs in desirable locations vs their 220 DO counterpart.

Sure, neither applicant is getting into Harvard or Stanford, but when it comes to solid mid tier programs in major cities or on the coasts, the MD applicant will definitely have a better shot at matching.

(This is assuming both applicants have similar grades, LORs, and ECs)
Right, just as top programs don't accept DOs, they don't accept below average MDs either, which is the case we're talking about. There's no doubt that the MD would be better off when compared to the exact same DO counterpart. But is that difference really large enough to justify the year of opportunity cost and risk of not getting in for OP's case?
 
If you wanted to go into PC then I would tell you to take the DO acceptance and call it a day.

My advice to you right now is to go read post interview reports from people who scored 245+ on Step 1 and see what they have to say. I'm not going to lie, it breaks my heart when I see applicants who busted their butts for years get turned away from programs just because they are a DO. They had to apply at more places to get the same amount of interviews as MD applicants who scored ~230. A bunch of those posts end in "I matched at a mid-tier institution and I'm happy" but I always get the sense they wonder "What if I had taken the other route?"

Things aren't going to change for a few years. If you're comfortable with that then take the DO acceptance.

Where are you reading these post interview reports?
 
Where are you reading these post interview reports?

There wasn't one comprehensive thread.

Just PM sylvanthus or cliquesh. They made an entire post about it. Both were top of their class and ~250.

There was another guy who kept posting his ECG website. The guy graduated from CCOM. 250+ and ended up at Loyola. I just remember a long post where he mentioned not being able to interview at a few places in Chicago. I'm trying to remember his name.
 
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There wasn't one comprehensive thread.

Just PM sylvanthus or cliquesh. They made an entire post about it. Both were top of their class and ~250.

There was another guy who kept posting his ECG website. The guy graduated from CCOM. 250+ and ended up at Loyola. I just remember a long post where he mentioned not being able to interview at a few places in Chicago. I'm trying to remember his name.

The thing is, when you go by individual posters, you run the risk of someone bringing up the fact that DOs with those same scores ended up in derm at Mayo. You have no idea why those posters didn't match/interview at certain places. You don't know where they applied or why they were turned down.
 
I really didn't know which forum to post this one so if moderators wish to move it to another forum, that's fine.

Mentally I'm ready to start medical school this fall and don't really want to delay the process one more year.

In seven years when you're making $225,000 you can laugh at the people who waited a year who are still slaving away making $47,000
 
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Right, just as top programs don't accept DOs, they don't accept below average MDs either, which is the case we're talking about. There's no doubt that the MD would be better off when compared to the exact same DO counterpart. But is that difference really large enough to justify the year of opportunity cost and risk of not getting in for OP's case?
Yes.
 
you got into a US med school! Go. Work hard and doors will open up naturally. Trust yourself. DO/MD MD/DO either route you'll be a physician. And also, there is no way your 110% sure about doing surgery, what if another field peeks your interest. Please don't turn down your acceptance to a US med school.
 
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