StardeWW 2: Ginger Island - GAME THREAD

Veterinary Science Graduate Certificate from UofI
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JaggedJimmyJay said:
Last game I believe I town read both mafia and exclusively suspected town. I had a terrible game.
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That isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying you have not held tight to a village core like you did last game, even though your village core in the previous game was wrong and you had periods of admitting you weren't completely comfortable with AM or Santy. You still didn't fully dismantle everything.
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Lawpy said:
This is an important point. How do you distinguish that from how Staggs handled WZ and SAR because the latter two were hesitant on Staggs and tried to counter my push?
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I'm not following your question here
 
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You mean WZ and SAR were both willing to vote Stagg and he was hostile toward them/didn't keep them in his village leans whereas he didn't treat JJJ with the same light aggro when J voted him?
 
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Lawpy said:
Yes pls. Behaviorally.
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Off the top of my head, one thing that comes to mind is Barky. PSV's treatment/suspicion of Barky was largely mechanical to my memory rather than a standard behavioral assessment, whereas her suspicion of Stagg was the latter. This might not help you, but I am kind of relating with Barky now in that sense as the subject of a mechanics-driven case. I would need to look more closely at other town interactions from PSV to qualify further.
 
Lawpy said:
Staggs village read WZ and SAR too

WZ and SAR were wavering around Staggs

Staggs village read Jays

Jays was wavering around Staggs

How can you distinguish between these two scenarios?
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Well, Stagg's response was quite different.
 
potentialsheltervet said:
You mean WZ and SAR were both willing to vote Stagg and he was hostile toward them/didn't keep them in his village leans whereas he didn't treat JJJ with the same light aggro when J voted him?
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It looks to me like Stagg was consistent in calling SAR town.
 
As well, I don't think Jay has put any effort today into showing why he's village. He has tried to assert that I'm wrong, but it isn't the same thing.
 
Lawpy said:
Because this is the dilemma i’m facing here. I feel like Staggs was grouping Jays together with WZ and SAR consistently and the latter 3 responded similarly. So i’m lost.
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Why are you lost? It's very safe to put your packmates who seems to be home free with other consensus villagers.
 
Stagg737 said:
SAR VCA:

D1: Voted for Mighty 2 hours before close to break a 3 way tie and sat there to make it Mighty 5, Vis 4, Lucy 4.
D2: Voted for Alley to make a tie with Santy and count was Alley 5, Santy 5, PSV 2. Somewhat interestingly, 1 hour later PSV voted for Santy and 2 minutes later SAR unvoted Alley but didn't drop a new vote. Didn't vote for Santy until 2 hours later to become 10/11 on Santy's wagon.
D3: SAR was the final vote on Nate.

D1 voting looks good. D2 was a bit odd, but I don't think it looks bad. D3 was meh.

Analysis, VCA looks good for SAR and if Alley flips wolf it would mean she was bussing 2 packmates early on. Others can correct me, but I don't see wolf SAR doing this and VCA keeps SAR out of POE and in my likely village pile.
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Stagg737 said:
My current reads/POE from most wolfy to village based on VCA:

POE: Alley/Miranda>>PSV

Barks- neutral to slight village lean
SAR- village lean

Genny ????

Based solely on VCA I think Miranda actually looks worse than Alley. However, there are other arguments that I think warrant leaving my vote on Alley for now. In terms of packs, I think it's unlikely that Miranda and PSV are in the same pack. They were both on Lucy, but ended up on different wolves at the end of D1. A bit WIFOM-Y, but seems pretty risky for wolves to bus different wolves who are both leading wagons on D1. I think this might give PSV a little less wolfiness based on VCA as she's the only one of the people still alive who started on the Lucy wagon that didn't either sit there or move to Mighty.

I will continue to update this as I continue VCA.
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Favorable read of SAR
 
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potentialsheltervet said:
As well, I don't think Jay has put any effort today into showing why he's village. He has tried to assert that I'm wrong, but it isn't the same thing.
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My quest is to find the mafia. I can certainly make the town case for myself, but I want to spend my time in this thread as effectively as possible to win the game.
 
Brief summaries of my PMs

D6:

miranda/SAR - Early in that day cycle SAR was lock town on PSV. We felt Barky was the best choice that day (obviously we were wrong). In our PM she told me if Barky flipped village she would consider lawpy and JJJ more. But on thread she stated that PSV would be her next choice by EOD 6. There was no discussion of mechanics here.

D7:

miranda/PSV - primarily we discussed the goat licking and what that might mean. However, we cannot make the assumption that the Neapolitan role in SDN works as we might expect. We discussed that lawpy was likely not a wolf and that JJJ was a person of interest. An interesting take away from this, PSV never confirmed she was acted on by SAR despite it being a pretty large part of the conversation.

miranda/lawpy - lawpy and I both tinfoiling and being sad/confused. Lawpy has really mulled over EVERY scenario. I will be STUNNED if it's lawpy.

miranda/JJJ - We primarily discussed the prospects of PSV or lawpy being wolf. Concerned about PSVs role claim and utilizing unclear mechanics to make a case against JJJ.


I think we ALL agree that lawpy is probably village. This seems to be the general consensus.

I am completely torn between PSV and JJJ, honestly.

I don't want to yeet PSV, I want to believe her whole heartedly, but some things aren't quite adding up. PSV seems the obvious choice, almost too obvious.
With JJJ it's complex... there are a ton of reasons why I don't think it could be JJJ, but there is just something in the back of my mind that says "what if?"
 
Lawpy said:
Does this quest change if you’re wolfing?
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I would probably care more about "prove I am town" if I was a wolf, yes. That's not where my head has been at here, because I am the one player I don't need to solve today.
 
JaggedJimmyJay said:
@miranda920 did you talk with PSV about the way you felt you were misrepresented?
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I will elaborate on this. PSV made a statement here on the thread regarding how SAR trusted me after being licked by the goat. However, I didn't realize that SAR was the goat... so when she made her post I was confused and thought she rearranged my words
 
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miranda920 said:
I will elaborate on this. PSV made a statement here on the thread regarding how SAR trusted me after being licked by the goat. However, I didn't realize that SAR was the goat... so when she made her post I was confused and thought she rearranged my words
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Oh this is reassuring because I thought I'd offended you in some way 😅
 
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A quick town case for Jay:

~ Beyond just basic "is Jay a busser" questions, I think the better question is "given the personality and style Jay exudes, does it seem likely that he would have treated his team this way in this game?" I am still new to this community. Nobody here knows me very well yet, and that would include the mafia team. I am not going to introduce myself to the mafia with the big blue eyes ready to take on my first SDN game in that alignment and then immediately start throwing my team into the trash can. That is not my style and it'd be anti-fun. I think I'd also view it as disadvantageous in a role madness game with tons of mystery mechanics and in an environment where everyone else knows each other better than they know me. I voted mighty and then literally went out for drinks that evening. I voted Stagg when miranda had the poll lead and she had been a top suspect for me the previous day. These aren't things that I had to do. I don't bus unnecessarily. I think it's lame, and I think it loses games for mafia.

~ I don't think a single player killed by mafia suspected me in this game. Some of them had me among their most-trusted people.

~ Viscernable treated me like a stranger in the earliest portion of the game, perhaps trying to capitalize on my question-oriented style to discredit me (particularly when I was asking Stagg questions). She was antagonistic to me in a way that I think ought to be telling.

~ Stagg did not shy away from discussing Viscernable, including well before Vis was in totally dire straights. He didn't have a lot to say about me outside broad-level analyses like VCA. I think he determined that it wasn't worth bothering, and maybe not just for me. I see similar treatment of SAR.

~ I have given the most dedicated effort I can to solve every crevice of this game thread within the tight time constraints I have faced, particularly after spring break ended. It's not just about trying hard either. I think that if you look, you can see the solving chaos flickering through my posts as I tear through the thread picking out whatever posts come to mind in whatever order so that I can make sense of everyone. I have sought the perspectives of other players consistently, especially when it comes to the meta reads I lack, to try to improve my own understanding of the game and to engender a sense of teamwork and positivity.
 
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potentialsheltervet said:
My defense.
Okay well mighty was a long lost cause so making a tie between him and vis is risky. Hopping on him would've been a better move.
Vis was a sinking ship but Stagg didn't have to be. Could've worked to preserve the single packmates still alive by pushing you, Miranda, idk who else was still alive at that point.
Leaving Dubz alive til endgame was pretty effective for me last time.
Zero reason to keep you alive. You've been sussing me forever. I wouldn't want you here. You're dead long before SAR or Dubz even.
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potentialsheltervet said:
Clem's dying as soon as he makes the yo mama joke.
I don't like making predictable NKs. I like letting people play. Killing samac and Zenge early followed by AM is about as predictable as it gets.
I voiced excitement to play with samac again. Winning is less important to me than everyone getting to play and have fun-- see me leaving Zenge alone in WWildzoo. I wouldn't have killed samac until at least N3, and it irritates me that she died when she did. Zenge too.
Waffling on vis is useless. Commit to a village read on your packmate or commit to bussing.
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Quoting these
 
Lawpy said:
Mirandas pls a quick defense pls?
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a defense of myself? Sure

I don't know why I made it this far, this is stressful. I've just been vibing, raising my chickens, and attempting to grow some crops. Even when some crows *cough Stagg* destroyed some of them. Rude.

Anyway, realistically - if SARs role works how I anticipate it does she would have know that I am VT and that should have been pretty clearing for her, hence why she wouldn't vote me out despite my name being on the board. My goat lick was on N4.

I'm not a wolf. Period.
 
miranda920 said:
a defense of myself? Sure

I don't know why I made it this far, this is stressful. I've just been vibing, raising my chickens, and attempting to grow some crops. Even when some crows *cough Stagg* destroyed some of them. Rude.

Anyway, realistically - if SARs role works how I anticipate it does she would have know that I am VT and that should have been pretty clearing for her, hence why she wouldn't vote me out despite my name being on the board. My goat lick was on N4.

I'm not a wolf. Period.
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To be clear, am I correct that you believe the lick revealed you as vanilla?
 
JaggedJimmyJay said:
~ Beyond just basic "is Jay a busser" questions, I think the better question is "given the personality and style Jay exudes, does it seem likely that he would have treated his team this way in this game?" I am still new to this community. Nobody here knows me very well yet, and that would include the mafia team. I am not going to introduce myself to the mafia with the big blue eyes ready to take on my first SDN game in that alignment and then immediately start throwing my team into the trash can. That is not my style and it'd be anti-fun. I think I'd also view it as disadvantageous in a role madness game with tons of mystery mechanics and in an environment where everyone else knows each other better than they know me. I voted mighty and then literally went out for drinks that evening. I voted Stagg when miranda had the poll lead and she had been a top suspect for me the previous day. These aren't things that I had to do. I don't bus unnecessarily. I think it's lame, and I think it loses games for mafia.
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The bold is kinda weak because you could’ve checked in even when away or busy.

Also going to check the timing of your Staggs vote
 
miranda920 said:
I believe it revealed me specifically as vanilla town.

She was Neapolitan, not vanilla cop
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Okay noted. I'm not accustomed to this role, but this would align with SAR's view of you.
 
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Lawpy said:
pshelty’s defense essentially amounts to night kill analysis + Staggs vote + the D1 tie + waffling on vissy (is this related to the D1 tie?)
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Not related so much to the tie. I mean, if you're going to read a packmate, commit. Don't say "vis is wolfy" and then say "eh maybe she's village" and decide to vote there anyway because it attracts attention and you look foolish. If I were a wolf and knew how she'd flip... Commit to being right or commit to being wrong. I've done both before.
 
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