when did you interview?
ATSU/SOMA (Arizona) Discussion Thread 2009-2010
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Feb. 26th.
I interviewed on the 19th and have not heard anything yet.
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I live about 10 miles from the school so it wouldn't take very long for the letter to make it to me. Good luck!
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*sigh
I wish I knew where I stood at this school. It's been 3 weeks since my file update and I have not heard anything yet. I'm guessing this isn't normal. I've been checking my mailbox everyday for a rejection letter! At least if I was rejected I could move on with the acceptance I already have.
I wish I knew where I stood at this school. It's been 3 weeks since my file update and I have not heard anything yet. I'm guessing this isn't normal. I've been checking my mailbox everyday for a rejection letter! At least if I was rejected I could move on with the acceptance I already have.
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I wouldnt worry too much, if you didnt get a letter so far then you should be ok. They have committee review once a week on wednesdays so if you were rejected you would know fairly soon after your interview.
Docmetal were you there on march 1st? You from chicago?
Docmetal were you there on march 1st? You from chicago?
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Congrats DrDJShik! I interviewed March 1st as well and I remember you haha. I feel the same way as docmetal right now in that both of us didn't get a call on March 15th, but you did and you interviewed the same day as us, so it's kind of nerve-racking. However, I just got a call this morning saying that I am accepted pending an open spot. They said that they are currently full in that if everyone who they have sent out acceptances to thus far says "yes," then they will be full. But if some people say "no," then they can start taking people out of this group in order to fill up their slots. Also, interestingly enough, they said that if I applied earlier in the cycle I would be getting an acceptance call instead of this "pending open spot" call, and that if worst comes to worst I can get an acceptance for their next year's class.
So my question is to those of you who have gone through all of this, what should I expect from this sort of call? Has anyone heard of this kind of call before? I just really want some peace of mind because I REALLY REALLY want to get in ATSU-SOMA rocks!
So my question is to those of you who have gone through all of this, what should I expect from this sort of call? Has anyone heard of this kind of call before? I just really want some peace of mind because I REALLY REALLY want to get in ATSU-SOMA rocks!
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Ill tell you one thing, If I get accepted to LECOM-Bradenton, I think I will withdraw from ATSU. However, that may not come soon enough and I will lose one or two grand 
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Haha I would GLADLY take ur spot so I too wish u the best of luck in getting in there haha
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I interviewed Feb 1st, and it was my very first interview. I thought I hung myself in that interview, so I was pretty surprised when Joyce contacted me, and she told me that they couldn't call me because my phone number was out of service. So interviewed Feb 1st, accepted 2/15, could be earlier? But unfortunately I withdrew my acceptance 3/05, but only after I made my first deposit. Do you guys know when I should expect a refund, since I withdrew within the 3 weeks that they gave me? I don't want to email Joyce asking for my refund.....but I need it for my other deposit....help?Advice?Any recent refund experience?Thank you in advance
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It's stated in the admission agreement form, and they also told us at the end of our interview. I've decided to attend AZCOM. I'm from Southern California, and I just don't like the idea of moving to Arizona, then having to move again after one year. But SOMA is an equally awesome place, the sim lab is a a bonus too.
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In case anyone is interested, I have some information regarding the wait lists. I got a letter telling me I'm an alternate this week and called Joyce with a few questions and she told me I'm on the medium wait list. So far this year they have taken almost everyone from the high wait list. They will not be taking any more students from the wait lists until May. I am assuming May is when the deposit is due? Anyone know about that? Anyway, in previous years, they have taken about half of the students on the medium wait list, but anticipate to take fewer than that this year. There are 40 people on the medium wait list and as spots open up, students on the lists are re-evaluated.
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Matriculation fees are due May 1st (at least for me..i was accepted back mid-december)..so i'm assuming that if people don't submit their other $1000 they lose thier spot and they open up those spots for anyone left? That reminds me that I need to do that, haha (already was a little late submitting my background check..oops!).
Good luck!! I was waitlisted at another school and they said the best thing to do is to keep your file up to date with grades and any new honors, shadowing, or other things..that way you improve your chances when they look again and it shows that you are really fighting for that spot. I'm assuming that might help here too! Hopefully that helps!
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I would not think there would be a problem with Alabama but more issues with west coast, especially hawaii and california and also new york. Also, I am a second year and have been monitoring the forum occasionally throughout the year although for some reason I do not see some of my posts.
For my class we ranked our choices and knew where we were assigned at acceptance with a few changes on request during the year. For the new class, they went through an interview process in which you made it clear why you wanted a particular location. I would recommend having at least two or even three top choices as from what I understand there was quite a bit of competition for a few locations. I do not know what that locations were though. I would also contact a CHC in the area you want and try to establish a relationship with them if possible once you know of your acceptance, visit, or if you live close by, volunteer.
sebrewer had a good perspective for a second year. In regards to residency, my site tries very hard to match individuals with their goals in regards to residency and it is very possible, to obtain experience for a specialty residency, although it might require some extra persistence. Since board scores are ultimately up to you, a hard to get residency is within the realm of possibility.
If you have questions directly about second year. Send me a message.
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Greetings all, 1st year class member of c/o 2013 here to set the record straight. Our class is pretty divided 50/50 in terms of academic achievement and mindset on many issues with the curriculum and things of that nature. When you read SDN and you look at anonymous posting, Please Keep in mind that the people who tend to be more vocal in a negative way about school issues are more than likely venting and you aren't getting the whole picture. Med students live in a fishbowl, and we have no outside lives, so school consumes it. Even miniscule issues tend to get blown out of proportion since everything is under a microscope.
I picked SOMA among my multiple acceptances becuase of the multi-faceted curriculum. Its a combo of PBL, lecture, Lab, and hands on physical diagnosis and evidence based clinical practice. I so far have had no problems and I am doing well in terms of class rank. I have a decent clinical background so that might have played a role, but in reality it just has to do with the amount of work you put into med school. Everyone starts out on equal footing, but you have to keep going hard the whole time and not slack off. My learning style is different and I tend to only attend lectures 50% of the time but I do an incredible amount of reading on my own. I would say that compared to undergrad, I spend way more time studying. I study at least 8 hours a day every day, and up to 16 a day on maybe a weekend before tests. But if you are not that self motivated, SOMA pretty much can spoon feed you if you go to all the lectures and do all the assigned objectives and reading.
To summarize, ANY med school has the same issues everyone b**ches about. I hear the same issues from my friends at other schools constantly. Not everyone is always happy with the curriculum because everyones learning style is different. It's just like anywhere else, some teachers are Poor, some are Exceptional, but most are pretty good and do a good job of relaying the material, and even assist you after hours 1 on 1, but don't expect them to force feed you the material in class, you have to do the reading, end of story. I assume this shouldn't be a problem for most people since you had to be astute at doing things like this ( ie reading textbooks in undergrad) to gain entrance to medical school, but, maybe this is the case with the people who are complaining about these issues.
I based my decision to attend Soma due to what I thought was a good fit for my personality and the fact that I get to return close to home to a CHC after being in mesa for 1 year. Year 2 is relaxed pace and mainly online, giving me a crapload of time to study for the boards. I also get clinical exposure early and can relay the info Im learning and not just sit around in the library all day. Thats the way I wanted it to be, and thats why I'm here.
If you think that this school is primary care based, you are in for a shock.
The dean is an DO/PhD Nephrologist and many of our clinical faculty are specialists. There are at least 2 people heavily set on Neurosurgery and ENT and at least 3-4 others who are interested in Ortho, with an intense history of field exposure to the specialty, as well as many interested in EM, Gen surg, and Neurology. For example, the President of the Surgery club is currently also doing a PhD, has a big surgery background, and I know for a fact this person has at least 3 research projects going on, two of which are through the school itself. There is no shortage of options here.
The bottom line is: the school wants you to practice with the underserved, or at least do something to give back in this manner. If you aren't interested in that then don't apply to this school. If you want to be anything from an Orthopod to a Psychiatrist, and could see yourself doing mission work, or assisting the underserved, SOMA is probably for you.
I picked SOMA among my multiple acceptances becuase of the multi-faceted curriculum. Its a combo of PBL, lecture, Lab, and hands on physical diagnosis and evidence based clinical practice. I so far have had no problems and I am doing well in terms of class rank. I have a decent clinical background so that might have played a role, but in reality it just has to do with the amount of work you put into med school. Everyone starts out on equal footing, but you have to keep going hard the whole time and not slack off. My learning style is different and I tend to only attend lectures 50% of the time but I do an incredible amount of reading on my own. I would say that compared to undergrad, I spend way more time studying. I study at least 8 hours a day every day, and up to 16 a day on maybe a weekend before tests. But if you are not that self motivated, SOMA pretty much can spoon feed you if you go to all the lectures and do all the assigned objectives and reading.
To summarize, ANY med school has the same issues everyone b**ches about. I hear the same issues from my friends at other schools constantly. Not everyone is always happy with the curriculum because everyones learning style is different. It's just like anywhere else, some teachers are Poor, some are Exceptional, but most are pretty good and do a good job of relaying the material, and even assist you after hours 1 on 1, but don't expect them to force feed you the material in class, you have to do the reading, end of story. I assume this shouldn't be a problem for most people since you had to be astute at doing things like this ( ie reading textbooks in undergrad) to gain entrance to medical school, but, maybe this is the case with the people who are complaining about these issues.
I based my decision to attend Soma due to what I thought was a good fit for my personality and the fact that I get to return close to home to a CHC after being in mesa for 1 year. Year 2 is relaxed pace and mainly online, giving me a crapload of time to study for the boards. I also get clinical exposure early and can relay the info Im learning and not just sit around in the library all day. Thats the way I wanted it to be, and thats why I'm here.
If you think that this school is primary care based, you are in for a shock.
The dean is an DO/PhD Nephrologist and many of our clinical faculty are specialists. There are at least 2 people heavily set on Neurosurgery and ENT and at least 3-4 others who are interested in Ortho, with an intense history of field exposure to the specialty, as well as many interested in EM, Gen surg, and Neurology. For example, the President of the Surgery club is currently also doing a PhD, has a big surgery background, and I know for a fact this person has at least 3 research projects going on, two of which are through the school itself. There is no shortage of options here.
The bottom line is: the school wants you to practice with the underserved, or at least do something to give back in this manner. If you aren't interested in that then don't apply to this school. If you want to be anything from an Orthopod to a Psychiatrist, and could see yourself doing mission work, or assisting the underserved, SOMA is probably for you.
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I received a couple PM's which asked me questions on the CHC's, what specialties they wanted to do, and also regarding the shelf exams. I'll instead reply here so people can get some more information.
Personally, unless you have had significant exposure to a specialty before medical school, I think a decision on which specialty you want to match to should probably be left until you do your 3rd year rotations, and keep your mind open about them. Its good that you may have an interest in something for now, just keep in mind that this may change. Say you thought you liked Family practice, but instead found yourself really liking a Heme/onc rotation or something. Just FYI.
In regards to CHC's, some are more 'competitive' than others simply because they are in more 'desireable' locations like big cities. Its not hard to figure out why, I mean big cities have more social life stuff going on. The school picked the CHC's because they were big enough to give you a good clinical intro during 2nd year, and are affiliated with big hospitals for the most part and have some academic connections for 3rd and 4th year rotations. 4th year you do rotations where you want, and just like every other school you should probably have an idea of where to rotate and what to do by then.
Someone PM'd me about clinical shelf scores being low.
Yes, thats true, the most recent class perfomed slightly below the national average for their clinical shelf scores. Is this an indicator of anything? probably, then again maybe not, since your grade is based on how well you scored on the NBOME shelf exam + your rotation grade.
Also, keep in mind that the curriculum was kinda being figured out at the time when the class of 2011 first came here, the program was brand new and needed kinks worked out. Is this a problem for you if you are going class of 2014? doubtful. The school is pretty on the ball about listening to students and their concerns.
What does it all mean? Nothing really. The board scores that were released range from like a 405 to a 650 or higher. What does that say? That some people rocked it, and others didnt. Is this reflective of the curriculum? Highly doubt it since most board studying is done by yourself, regardless of which med school you go to , DO or MD. What does it mean? nothing really, this school is the same as any other DO school in terms of stuff like that.
My personal opinion? If you like clinical and hands on stuff, and you like technology, this school has a lot of perks. If you like reading dusty textbooks and sitting in an auditorium with 400 people, you probably wont like this school. If you are a lazy person who basically wants to do the bare minimum and expect med school to funnel you into Derm or something, you might be in for a rude awakening, here or anywhere for that matter.
Bottom line is this. You gotta work hard for what you want. Dont expect any school to just give you the keys to ROAD specialties or something. Are the tools here at this school to help you succeed? yup. Do I use most of em? Yup. Is my class rank good? you bet. Is my performance good on my board practice stuff? yup. and I self motivated? yup.
Are students who are loafers getting great grades? nope. Are students who don't utilize all the resources getting good grades? doubtful.
It's all relative.
Arth. c/o '13
Personally, unless you have had significant exposure to a specialty before medical school, I think a decision on which specialty you want to match to should probably be left until you do your 3rd year rotations, and keep your mind open about them. Its good that you may have an interest in something for now, just keep in mind that this may change. Say you thought you liked Family practice, but instead found yourself really liking a Heme/onc rotation or something. Just FYI.
In regards to CHC's, some are more 'competitive' than others simply because they are in more 'desireable' locations like big cities. Its not hard to figure out why, I mean big cities have more social life stuff going on. The school picked the CHC's because they were big enough to give you a good clinical intro during 2nd year, and are affiliated with big hospitals for the most part and have some academic connections for 3rd and 4th year rotations. 4th year you do rotations where you want, and just like every other school you should probably have an idea of where to rotate and what to do by then.
Someone PM'd me about clinical shelf scores being low.
Yes, thats true, the most recent class perfomed slightly below the national average for their clinical shelf scores. Is this an indicator of anything? probably, then again maybe not, since your grade is based on how well you scored on the NBOME shelf exam + your rotation grade.
Also, keep in mind that the curriculum was kinda being figured out at the time when the class of 2011 first came here, the program was brand new and needed kinks worked out. Is this a problem for you if you are going class of 2014? doubtful. The school is pretty on the ball about listening to students and their concerns.
What does it all mean? Nothing really. The board scores that were released range from like a 405 to a 650 or higher. What does that say? That some people rocked it, and others didnt. Is this reflective of the curriculum? Highly doubt it since most board studying is done by yourself, regardless of which med school you go to , DO or MD. What does it mean? nothing really, this school is the same as any other DO school in terms of stuff like that.
My personal opinion? If you like clinical and hands on stuff, and you like technology, this school has a lot of perks. If you like reading dusty textbooks and sitting in an auditorium with 400 people, you probably wont like this school. If you are a lazy person who basically wants to do the bare minimum and expect med school to funnel you into Derm or something, you might be in for a rude awakening, here or anywhere for that matter.
Bottom line is this. You gotta work hard for what you want. Dont expect any school to just give you the keys to ROAD specialties or something. Are the tools here at this school to help you succeed? yup. Do I use most of em? Yup. Is my class rank good? you bet. Is my performance good on my board practice stuff? yup. and I self motivated? yup.
Are students who are loafers getting great grades? nope. Are students who don't utilize all the resources getting good grades? doubtful.
It's all relative.
Arth. c/o '13
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Thanks for the input, Arthroscope! It's nice to hear any and all opinions from current SOMA students.
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I love the wording of this. Who doesn't love great technology? "If you like technology, this school has a lot of perks... " Lets go over the technology of the school.
1) 42 inch Flat screens in small group room and in the lecture hall.
2) $2,000 tablet pc which you are forced to buy and the curriculum does not call for tablet pc functioning.
3) ahh the podcasts 2nd year. This is the same thing as audiovisual recordings that other schools use. The podcast is a recording of a professor explaining the powerpoints. It's taped and used each year. Its a convenient and cheap way of teaching which definately has some perks. The school doesn't have to pay repeatedly for the same lecture to be given year after year, as it is just recorded once and dispersed when the lecture is called for. You can also pause it as you wish to jot down notes, look things up in "dusty" books, etc. Again, no different than other schools that offer audiovisual recordings of lectures from years 1-2. A number of schools do this, but soma likes to make it sound fancy by calling it a "podcast".
"If you like reading dusty textbooks and sitting in an auditorium of 400 people..."
I'm not really sure anyone likes to read dusty textbooks... I often use my textbooks so much, they don't really get dusty. But had I went to a traditional medical school... yeahhh they'd be dusty and thats just gross!
If anyone wants to see the quality of the lectures since textbooks aren't really necessary for the schools instruction, contact me and I'll send you a lecture (whoops I mean presentation) from each professor so you can gauge if the presentation of the material is to your liking instead of taking anyone elses word for it.
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Actually, starting this year, you don't have to purchase the computer. You can use your own if it meets the minimum requirements.
so as a result... the technology isn't as good but your not paying for it. this does not refute my point.
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I think it's pretty much been established that joes ...
A. Doesn't know what he or she (joe simmons is a fake name and a fake email) is talking about. (As to technology, besides the flat screens, what about the Sim Men in every Small Group Room, the Harvey Heart Sound machine, the MLO system for distributing electronic materials, the echo 360 lecture recording system, etc. etc. etc.)
B. Has a bone to pick with the school, I'm guessing as an excuse for his or her own shortcomings.
C. Has an arrogant/hostile/negative/condescending attitude. (We don't have a curriculum designed for tablet PC's? The idea behind the tablets is that they are just one more tool for us to do what medical school is all about, study hard. No one piece of technology or educational delivery system is going to magically grant you knowledge of medicine, but we are given an array of tools to help us to learn the material ourselves.)
I tried to email joes, listen to his or her side of the story, and understand where he or she is coming from, but was unable to have a coherent conversation after several emails. The emails were all rants about how ignorant everyone at the school is to the ploy that the school is trying to sabotage everyone's education so that they are tricked into doing primary care.
I would take everyone's opinion on sdn worth a grain of salt, including mine, but joes really is just way out there.
is it a good time to now post where you said in an email "I think your right... i spoke to a 3rd year who is disillusioned with her rotations from the phx chc. It seems as though she doesn't know where she will be. I guess i was only voicing my opinions after only knowing the students from the bk chc."
I'm not really sure why the point I made isn't being responded to about dusty textbooks and the great technology. I also love how admin post on here.
Is it a good time to now post where you said in an email 2 days ago "I think your right... i spoke to a 3rd year who is disillusioned with her rotations from the phx chc. It seems as though she doesn't know where she will be. I guess i was only voicing my opinions after only knowing the students from the bk chc.... "
I'm not really sure why the point I made isn't being responded to about dusty textbooks and the great technology.
1) So 25% of the class didn't fail the renal midterm?
2) 10 students aren't remediating pulmonary?
3) Didn't Dean Simon begin the first deans meeting by stating we typically take students who wouldn't otherwise get into medical school? This all the while the POM final came back and the average after curving was as a 69.
These are some of many big issues the school has. When I asked a residency director how it feels about a school that remediates 20-25% of the students (as soma does). He said, residency directors would view that school quite poorly.
I agree with Bruce, take what everyone says on sdn with a grain of salt, but I actually have proof and would gladly share grade distributions of all modules with anyone considering SOMA.
Because I choose to disguise my name, my arguments are invalid?
Thank you Bruce, for showing yourself to be quite incoherent, hostile, defensive, etc. When constructing a sentence, "/" aren't used as you've displayed.
How does a school show itself as clinically oriented, when it doesn't teach action of muscles?
Right out of anatomy BRS (board review series)
An 18 year old boy involved in an automobile accident presents with an arm that cannot abduct. His paralysis is caused by damage to which of the following nerves?
A. suprascapular and axillary
B. Thoracodorsal and upper subscapular
C. Axillary and musclocutaneous
D. Radial and lower subscapular
E. Suprascapular and dorsal scapular
One must know action of the muscle to answer this question and that is not taught in the SOMA curriculum. So while anyone can get any specialty they so chose, the school doesn't tailor itself to teach adequate amounts of information needed to thrive on the boards to attain such a specialty. This school is wonderful, but for the right student. As Lorree Ratto said (a member of the admissions com.), this school is meant for primary care in rural america. This is a great mission statement. She followed with "the students who choose to come here should be aware that this curriculum is geared to produce such doctors."
On the interviews, deans have advertised this school differently. "Do you see anything on our mission statement that points to primary care? You can be the next plastic surgeon in scottsdale for all we care. We prefer you to be a primary care doctor, but you don't have to be."
This is a little misleading. Clinical medicine is very emphasized here and with great reason. However, at the expense of doing a lot of clinical work, other materials are squeezed out of the picture that will ACTUALLY be on step 1 and the comlex.
Ultimately I wish everyone who chooses SOMA and the current students well. All I intended to do is to share provable information about the school to those who wish to know if it is right for them. Choosing the right medical school is a big decision and giving others insight that is provable is only doing other future colleagues an advantage.
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I would imagine that other things would fall under "technology" such as….
1.) Echo360-(a computer, camera, software system that records all lectures with audio/visuals and the slide the presenter is on and then allows access from internet). A lot of schools just use a scribe service to type out notes.
2.) Harvey (the heart auscultation dummy/robot, that allows many students at a time to hear a multitude of murmurs and arrhythmias through infrared receiving stethoscopes)
3.) The sim-men/women (the group of other robot/dummies that allow auscultation, pulses, injections, etc)
4.) Simulations that include sim-men and vital sign computers
5.) Recorded OSCEs that can be viewed via internet. The camera/audio system for the small group rooms can be used to monitor medical skills groups as well.
6.) Software for learning heart and lung sounds
7.) Online library with access to medical reference sites, Ackland anatomy videos, 3D anatomy visualizations, etc.
8.) Recorded anatomy presentation and cadaver discussions
9.) And if you want more technology, there is always the real patient actors and breast/pelvis/rectal exams on live patients.
to name a some off the top of my head...
A few other comments…
The LCD's are larger than 42inch…The model number says 50inch.
The clinical shelf exam scores were grades of 42-48 people. I'm not sure the school should be condemned because ½ of the first year class did decent with some doing excellent and others lower. Maybe they should be making changes in the curriculum and acceptance criteria to hopefully help those scores in future classes? Oh that's a rhetorical question, you and I both know they are. These statistics aren't secret either; they were given to all 3 classes. Also, just a fun fact SOMA had the 2nd most interviews per seat (I realize we only accept 110ish students), SOMA also had the 2nd highest annual increase in total applications.
As Arthroscope has said and many residents/medical students have said, a lot of board studying is on your own. Didactics during rotations help, but the World question bank and books are generally what people rely on to study. As for first year, I have been using the provided lectures and supplement them with my regular books and board books. I've been happy with my performance thus far.
As for the school forcing you to do primary care, I have not had that experience whatsoever. First month of school, my advisor asked what I was interested in and gave me names of docs, numbers, info on the specialty I was interested in. I think it was previously mentioned, but we have a nephrologist, 1 general surgeon, 1 bariatric surgeon, 1 plastic surgeon, who also did a fellowship in ortho, 1 ER doc, 1 Cardiologist, 1 Neurologist, and probably a few others I forgot that teach us and are there for us to use as resources.
SOMA is new; with a new curriculum….of course there are bumps along the way. The faculty is listening to students, looking at results, and trying to improve the school. No the school isn't perfect, none of them are.
/sigh...you complain about the "$2,000 laptops we are forced to buy" and when melissa posts about not having to buy them next year, you complain about that. I don't like the laptops either, but it's really not that big of deal is it?
Part of this is just re-iteration of what others have said before...most of the pre-meds and med students posting on SDN are smart enough to realize that a lot of what you get in med school is what you put in.
-plain51
1.) Echo360-(a computer, camera, software system that records all lectures with audio/visuals and the slide the presenter is on and then allows access from internet). A lot of schools just use a scribe service to type out notes.
2.) Harvey (the heart auscultation dummy/robot, that allows many students at a time to hear a multitude of murmurs and arrhythmias through infrared receiving stethoscopes)
3.) The sim-men/women (the group of other robot/dummies that allow auscultation, pulses, injections, etc)
4.) Simulations that include sim-men and vital sign computers
5.) Recorded OSCEs that can be viewed via internet. The camera/audio system for the small group rooms can be used to monitor medical skills groups as well.
6.) Software for learning heart and lung sounds
7.) Online library with access to medical reference sites, Ackland anatomy videos, 3D anatomy visualizations, etc.
8.) Recorded anatomy presentation and cadaver discussions
9.) And if you want more technology, there is always the real patient actors and breast/pelvis/rectal exams on live patients.
to name a some off the top of my head...
A few other comments…
The LCD's are larger than 42inch…The model number says 50inch.
The clinical shelf exam scores were grades of 42-48 people. I'm not sure the school should be condemned because ½ of the first year class did decent with some doing excellent and others lower. Maybe they should be making changes in the curriculum and acceptance criteria to hopefully help those scores in future classes? Oh that's a rhetorical question, you and I both know they are. These statistics aren't secret either; they were given to all 3 classes. Also, just a fun fact SOMA had the 2nd most interviews per seat (I realize we only accept 110ish students), SOMA also had the 2nd highest annual increase in total applications.
As Arthroscope has said and many residents/medical students have said, a lot of board studying is on your own. Didactics during rotations help, but the World question bank and books are generally what people rely on to study. As for first year, I have been using the provided lectures and supplement them with my regular books and board books. I've been happy with my performance thus far.
As for the school forcing you to do primary care, I have not had that experience whatsoever. First month of school, my advisor asked what I was interested in and gave me names of docs, numbers, info on the specialty I was interested in. I think it was previously mentioned, but we have a nephrologist, 1 general surgeon, 1 bariatric surgeon, 1 plastic surgeon, who also did a fellowship in ortho, 1 ER doc, 1 Cardiologist, 1 Neurologist, and probably a few others I forgot that teach us and are there for us to use as resources.
SOMA is new; with a new curriculum….of course there are bumps along the way. The faculty is listening to students, looking at results, and trying to improve the school. No the school isn't perfect, none of them are.
/sigh...you complain about the "$2,000 laptops we are forced to buy" and when melissa posts about not having to buy them next year, you complain about that. I don't like the laptops either, but it's really not that big of deal is it?
Part of this is just re-iteration of what others have said before...most of the pre-meds and med students posting on SDN are smart enough to realize that a lot of what you get in med school is what you put in.
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Here's the real quote from my email.
"I'm beginning to understand better where you're coming from. Today at the Buddhist free clinic thing with SOMA2 I talked to a 3rd year who is in Phoenix and who is somewhat disillusioned with her rotations, some of which were with private outpatient IM docs who didn't give her much exposure or time with patients. I guess I was somewhat biased since I am going to Brooklyn and all of my interactions with upperclassmen have been at Brooklyn.
I was very, very skeptical of the school before coming. I had acceptances at other schools, and wouldn't have come, because it was so new, but I decided at the last minute to visit the Brooklyn CHC, which completely sold me on SOMA. So a lot of my older posts (I posted a ton last year) were more skeptical, but I think you're right, lately my posts have been way more positive than skeptical. To be fair, I really have had a great experience here so far - the faculty are always available, I'm pretty satisfied with the curriculum, the way things are set up, etc. Looking at board prep questions, I feel like I'm preparing myself well.
A second year in Phoenix that was also at the Buddhist clinic today did point out that the school just signed a contract with County Hospital here in Phoenix for better rotations, which everybody was pretty excited about. So it appears that they are at least working on it."
Mostly what I was doing was grasping at some sort of substance as to where you were coming from. It's a social gesture, called "listening," where you try to understand and analyze what the other person is saying. I was very, very skeptical of the school before coming. I had acceptances at other schools, and wouldn't have come, because it was so new, but I decided at the last minute to visit the Brooklyn CHC, which completely sold me on SOMA. So a lot of my older posts (I posted a ton last year) were more skeptical, but I think you're right, lately my posts have been way more positive than skeptical. To be fair, I really have had a great experience here so far - the faculty are always available, I'm pretty satisfied with the curriculum, the way things are set up, etc. Looking at board prep questions, I feel like I'm preparing myself well.
A second year in Phoenix that was also at the Buddhist clinic today did point out that the school just signed a contract with County Hospital here in Phoenix for better rotations, which everybody was pretty excited about. So it appears that they are at least working on it."
I'm not saying that there are no cons to SOMA - it is a new school, for sure. But I'm also trying to tell the whole story here. (Like the above contract with County here in Phoenix).
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Who are the admins and how do you know this?
I've walked by offices before and seen admin typing away on sdn. I couldn't catch the username, but noticed by seeing Bruce's username on the left column that it must've been the SOMA thread and not some pre-dental forum that one of them was considering.
OK so PHX CHC has more rotations in the works, what about other chcs? Are the students there feeling disillusioned as well? Very important questions. Does the school keep the 1st yrs in check with whats going on in each chc before the students decide to rank their choices? Did you learn information about the cons of the phx chc bc you got lucky to stumble upon a student or was the school honest and upfront about it so students can plan and prepare ahead of time?
if you really wanted to be non-bias, you would've mentioned this before I quoted you on it. This school has pros, this school has cons. Be honest and if your confident this school is good list them all and if possible show evidence. Period.
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There is NO audiovisual recordings of the lectures and there never were any. As a matter of fact in POM, Dr. Pong said we need the time we spend on recording the audio to make the powerpoints better, so unfortunately we can't record the audio anymore. He also mentioned how a number of students failed renal last year and said it was mostly those who didn't go to class, so they don't want to encourage that by recording the audio. Students record the audio now on their own and you know this!
Simulations that include sim-man? that is standard, so is the video recordings of it to view later. As a matter of fact, a lot of what you posted as great technology is standard. Recorded anatomy presentations and cadaver discussions are the same thing! The professor discusses the cadavers during anatomy.
A lot of board studying is on your own, but in every other school its a review. For example, the board collection series "Board Review Series". No school other than this do you have to learn more information that wasn't taught in class to do well on the boards. Other medical schools teach you more than what you need to know for the boards, this teaches less and you gotta find time to review what is taught in class thats on the boards as well as whats not taught in the school that is on the boards. This is unique to SOMA. www.doctorsintraining.com is a reputable board review course that explains how in medical school you get a lot more than what you need to know for the boards. This school (as faculty have warned me to help me prepare early), does not teach you even half of what you need to know for the boards. SOMA's schedule doesn't give students 30 hrs/day. You emphasize clinicals at the expense of something else. It is up to the student to fill in that gap, know what is to be learned and learn it on ones own without previous instruction on it during the coursework.
As for your advisor helping you out that like that?! Thats pretty sweet, I'm guessing Dr. Bennett?
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Look man, there is no way of arguing with you, as most of your information is either lies or twisted truths.
Dr. Pong told us that at the very beginning of the year. Since then, the students did volunteer to do audio recordings (which I think is a testament to how cooperative we are with each other, but that's not my point here,)
Starting with the last module, we do have A/V recordings. The echo360 system videos the lecturer and captures their powerpoints, including any inking that they do on their powerpoints with their tablet PC. I don't know what else to tell you, since you're obviously just wrong.
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As someone who will attend this school if taken from the wait list (I liked SOMA a lot!), it is interesting to read opinions from the students. However, Joes keeps saying, "I can show you lists of complaints," etc. And well, frankly, let's see 'em. I'm sure that other applicants would sincerely be interested in seeing the grievances of students. I like to see both sides of situations and form my own opinion. Nothing that Joes has said has discouraged me from choosing SOMA, mostly because it has all been so combative. I am also willing to listen to someone's opinion, but the more respectfully it is laid out, the more seriously I am able to take it. I don't think any of us are on this forum to engage in non-constructive arguments. I did not post that the computers are not required this year to refute you, Joes. I was actually just trying to post that so that the other applicants know that it is no longer a requirement. I'm sure it's an option, though. Many schools have a similar policy.
Oh, and this is just one of my pet peeves, but the verb is "you're," not "your." "Your" is possessive, not the contraction of "you are."
And thank you to all of you students who are willing to stand up for SOMA. I've really enjoyed reading personal opinions about the school: good and bad.
Oh, and this is just one of my pet peeves, but the verb is "you're," not "your." "Your" is possessive, not the contraction of "you are."
And thank you to all of you students who are willing to stand up for SOMA. I've really enjoyed reading personal opinions about the school: good and bad.
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This is what I meant by saying improvements have been made. It is called ECHO360 and was installed this year. We have recordings of audio/visual along with the slides the professor is on and this is accessible through the SOMA website. Interviewees probably saw the camera coming from the ceiling to record it. Changes can occur year to year!
No, this is not standard. 1.) A good portion of MD and DO students alike do not have simulations, because clinical skills are not as heavily emphasized their first year 2.) Discussion of individual cadavers by a professor vs a Clinically Oriented Anatomy presentation before looking at the cadavers is not the same thing. They started to implement this after seeing NBME anatomy scores of upperclassmen (this is just my guess, but it started to happen at the same time)
Again they are making changes, professors and faculty realize they needed more basic sciences and have included more into the curriculum. They have also hired new professors, including an excellent physiologist. Yes, I use BRS and First Aid books along with more in-depth books like Harrison's and Costanzo. The lectures cover much more info than what is in either one of those Board prep books. If you read the lectures, supplement them with those books you should have the material covered. I did not emphasize clinicals at the expense of something else. We go to school longer during the year to help fill the gap.
No, my advisor is a family medicine doc...but yeah, I like Dr. Bennett, he will bend over backwards to help you.
As I read your post several posts up that you edited, I was going to formulate a long response. But ..amongst your inconsistencies I am pretty sure I know who you are now; Im done talking to you about this. Melissa and other applicants are smart enough to make an educated decision for themselves and realize someone who has made it their goal to post blatant remarks (troll) towards the school. Youve decided not to post constructive feedback for the school or for SDN members coming here. We all know SOMA isnt perfect, most schools aren't.
Oh btw, the answer to your question is A . And you'll have to take my word on this that I didn't look it up....but this has been covered on multiple occasions in anatomy, med skills, Neuromuscular, and even OPP.
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i agree with mellissaliss completely.
Everywhere you go you are going to find people unhappy with something..if not a lot of things. I see this all the time in my undergrad school. A lot of people complain, some people even say they hate it, some people stay, some people leave, while on the other hand other people (like me) love it. It really depends on your individual taste, learning style, and interests as well as what you put into your experience. If you put in all negativity what do you really expect to get out of it?
For that reason I don't think it is fair to judge an entire school based on one person's bitter critiques. Everyone has a right to an opinion, but then again everyone also has a right to form their own based on their own judgments not those of others.
I am completely willing to take the chance with SOMA because I believe in a lot of what they stand for.
I also like that they don't use only traditional methods of teaching, because honestly how much do you remember from your Orgo class several years ago with the traditional text/lecture methods used in undergrad? I remember what benzene is...and not much beyond that. I think that the clinical approach will be very useful because as a doctor THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO BE DOING. You need to be able to apply knowledge, otherwise it is just lost in a swamp of uselessness right along with that Orgo. As for the boards..study? The MCAT had a lot of information that you were taught but I'm sure you still had to study on your own. And I doubt you learned or remembered everything that was on the MCAT in your undergrad classes...did you not have to go teach yourself concepts? Or did you expect someone to baby your way through the process.
Also, Sim-people are not standard. ATSU was the only school that I looked that even offered them. Other schools (whose names I wont mention but it was one of the most "prestigious" in terms of age) didn't offer anything beyond a large room full of cadavers. No offense but I'm not learning any important clinical skills based on people who are already dead..and i'd rather practice on sim-people than real people until I know what the heck I'm doing. This seems like a very valuable tool.
ATSU may be a new school but so what. At one point every school is new. I am willing to work through the kinks because honestly I think that the benefits outweigh a few bumps in the road. If you can't handle the ride then don't come aboard..it is as simple as that.
And if you hate it so much I'd recommend taking that up with the school, not SDN as that does nothing to solve your "problems." I'd also appreciate not being harassed with pm's about this either..thanks
Everywhere you go you are going to find people unhappy with something..if not a lot of things. I see this all the time in my undergrad school. A lot of people complain, some people even say they hate it, some people stay, some people leave, while on the other hand other people (like me) love it. It really depends on your individual taste, learning style, and interests as well as what you put into your experience. If you put in all negativity what do you really expect to get out of it?
For that reason I don't think it is fair to judge an entire school based on one person's bitter critiques. Everyone has a right to an opinion, but then again everyone also has a right to form their own based on their own judgments not those of others.
I am completely willing to take the chance with SOMA because I believe in a lot of what they stand for.
I also like that they don't use only traditional methods of teaching, because honestly how much do you remember from your Orgo class several years ago with the traditional text/lecture methods used in undergrad? I remember what benzene is...and not much beyond that. I think that the clinical approach will be very useful because as a doctor THAT IS WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO BE DOING. You need to be able to apply knowledge, otherwise it is just lost in a swamp of uselessness right along with that Orgo. As for the boards..study? The MCAT had a lot of information that you were taught but I'm sure you still had to study on your own. And I doubt you learned or remembered everything that was on the MCAT in your undergrad classes...did you not have to go teach yourself concepts? Or did you expect someone to baby your way through the process.
Also, Sim-people are not standard. ATSU was the only school that I looked that even offered them. Other schools (whose names I wont mention but it was one of the most "prestigious" in terms of age) didn't offer anything beyond a large room full of cadavers. No offense but I'm not learning any important clinical skills based on people who are already dead..and i'd rather practice on sim-people than real people until I know what the heck I'm doing. This seems like a very valuable tool.
ATSU may be a new school but so what. At one point every school is new. I am willing to work through the kinks because honestly I think that the benefits outweigh a few bumps in the road. If you can't handle the ride then don't come aboard..it is as simple as that.
And if you hate it so much I'd recommend taking that up with the school, not SDN as that does nothing to solve your "problems." I'd also appreciate not being harassed with pm's about this either..thanks
Only my weakest points have been argued against. How about 1/4 remediate and that is extremely high for any school. Ahhh, yes... Dr. Simon addressing the school in the first deans meeting, "We typically take students who wouldn't otherwise get into medical school." You are right. This school does have a lot of benefits. For example, this school has its students do "4th year simulations" such as the stroke simulation.
"ImonAPlain", wasn't it you who said the school gives students a 70% greater chance of getting in if they volunteer at the schools CHC, not nec. at their hometown CHC which is what this school said it was about when I applied. I know who you are as well and you have much different opinions of the school when not posting on SDN.
....oh wait, there is no such thing as a 4th year simulation!
Congrads on becoming a student here "melissaliss" paddock.
I'm done with this. Good luck at SOMA.
"ImonAPlain", wasn't it you who said the school gives students a 70% greater chance of getting in if they volunteer at the schools CHC, not nec. at their hometown CHC which is what this school said it was about when I applied. I know who you are as well and you have much different opinions of the school when not posting on SDN.
....oh wait, there is no such thing as a 4th year simulation!
Congrads on becoming a student here "melissaliss" paddock.
I'm done with this. Good luck at SOMA.
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Well maybe this is the case for your class (being so early in the history of the school) but I know of several people who were admitted to other med schools but wern't accepted to ATSU-SOMA this year. Perhaps they are getting more selective with increased numbers of interested people/applications. This is always the case with the first few years of a school...the first few classes usually have lower standards because it is hard to get someone to be a complete guinea pig. I have friends applying to dent schools in simular situations.
I don't think it is fair to down play how hard it was to actually get into ATSU, much less any other medical school. You should all be proud of yourselves (including you-joes). We have all been through a lot to get to this point. Congrats to everyone who is going to be one of my classmates! Don't let joes make you feel inferior...he/she obviously has their own set of issues.
As for me i'm excited to see you all in Mesa sooo soon!!!
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Isn't Melissa Paddock an admission counselor? Melissaliss are you really an admissions counselor??
Joes - how do you figure she's Ms. Paddock. If you look at her other posts, she applied to Touro Nv and AZCOM, but I did see where she put two different gpa's in two different threads. One was a gpa of 3.5 and somewhere else she put 3.38 - I think this was the nova thread.
Also, other students have PM'ed me that this school sucks. I've read that nurse managers will be your boss at the CHC. This really made my decision to NOT to go to ATSU. I want to report to a doctor, NOT nurse managers. I"m not going to nursing school for crying out loud!!!!!
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Ha ha. No, I'm definitely NOT an admissions counselor. I am in no way affiliated with admissions of administration of any school. If you want confirmation of this fact, please feel free to PM me. I have a 3.39 undergrad GPA. If I wrote something different, it was simply an error of typing. I'm all for a good-natured debate, but why can't these things be done without insulting or attacking others? I just see no use in disrespect.
Edit: Joes, I have also not been accepted, so I am not a student at SOMA. I would like to be a student at SOMA, but I'm on a wait list.
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i dont think you are melissa paddock because you posted on other threads. i dont think she has time to do that, but who knows.
now lets get down to business: doesnt it bother you guys that you will be reporting to nurse managers during years 2-4?? we are going to be doctors so shouldnt we report to them.
doesnt this influence your decision at all? i find it creepy to report to nurses.
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Joes, you are reaching. People are tired of hearing you rant and rave. No, I don't think I said anything about the school giving you a 70% better chance of getting in with CHC affiliation...because I was not affiliated with a CHC, you should know that. I think it does help though. My views of the school when not posting on SDN involve poorly worded test questions and complaints about a few professors...the same thing I complained about in undergrad, high school, etc.
If you'd like to discuss these complaints personally, instead over a forum on the internet I would be glad to meet with you at school. Maybe then the school can work on your suggested changes.
And no, none of us work for the school.
I didn't understand what you meant at first. You are referring to our 1st years doing a simulation that another school used for their 4th years. Well, a quick Google will show you plenty of places have 4th year simulations as supplements to their rotations. Regardless, I don't know how this is bad?
I apologize to interviewees and the new class seeing all of this. If anyone has any questions or is seeking advice about the school, feel free to ask.
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I remember reading a post of a student reporting to a nurse manager for 1 rotation. Does this concern me? Well, I researched and talked to students at the CHC's I was hoping to get into and they were thoroughly overjoyed with their CHC. Unfortunately, all the CHC's can't be the same.
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so please let the prospective students know which chc's make you report to nurse managers. this is very sad and i hope the administration at atsu know about this and fix this!!!
the tuition here is almost $40K and no one wants to pay that much to have a nurse to report to. this is just a disgrace.
please let people know which are the best chc's and which chc's have the most problems. this way people can decide where they want to go.
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Utah girl you are going to be in for a very, very rude awakening if you think you are going to go into medicine with this attitude about nurses. Remember you are going to be in a hospital which like in any other business has a hierarchy of comhmand. These are Nurse "managers" you are talking about, take the word nurse out and they are a manager. Usually these are people who have earned their dues in the organization, understand the business of the hospital and have worked there much longer than you or I. To have the arrogance to think because you are a student DOCTOR and thus know better about the business of the hospital than these managers is ludicrous. We are at the bottom of the hierarchy, and in my opinion rightfully so. Don't think this is only the case in a CHC, this is common in most if not all hospitals. Remember this when you meet the CEO of your future hospital, and realize she only has a masters degree and yet you are still taking orders from her..as a doctor!
Can I ask you what is your aversion to nurses? They can be your best friend and your worst enemies depending on your professional relationship with them. Most nurses will know more than you for quite sometime anyways. Especially while you are in medical student.
EDIT: well put EastWestN2grt
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FYI I dont have any aversion towards nurses. My mom is a nurse.
I have volunteered extensively in the ER and worked under nurses as well.
My problem is that I want to be a doctor and want to learn how DOCTOR's interact with patients and therefore want to report under a doctor. I do not mind working WITH nurses here and there, but I want to learn what doctors do and who they interact with patients etc...
It seems like ATSU does indeed fact make you report to nurse managers during clinical rotations since you guys are defending this so much.
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