WW Child's Play; a noob game

[Mad Jack]

Well whether or not MJ runs another noob game, Gwen and I should be done with our Golden Compass game by the beginning of next week. 25 roles, we'll be giving first preference to veterans (a day for them to sign up first) and then noobs can sign up too. So that's an option too!

Let's just let that happen and if too many noobs are left out in the cold I'll run another noob game so they can at least keep some skills up.

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[WildZoo]

Let's just let that happen and if too many noobs are left out in the cold I'll run another noob game so they can at least keep some skills up.

Good plan

 

[Filly Bay]

I agree I wouldn't have signed up if it wasn't a noob game but now I want to join in with everyone else and give it a whirl!

 

[hazelmoo]

I hope there's enough spots for us! How many games do you have to play to no longer be considered a noob? 3 or 4?

 

[Mad Jack]

I hope there's enough spots for us! How many games do you have to play to no longer be considered a noob? 3 or 4?

Enough until you're good.

I'm still a noob.

 

[Kam325]

I really love how much fun we all had playing with each other, and I think it's awesome that we're all jumping at the chance to play again with this group in which we've been making friends and testing our wings. If MJ runs another noob game, I'd absolutely love a chance to play with you guys again!

I'm also excited to jump in with the big kids. I know SOV is working on another Noobs vs. Boobs game, and I think that will be a great way to mix the waters, cement the new players within the established community, and introduce the newbies to the culture and style of play here on SDN. Glad to hear there are more games in the works.

In defense of the game we just played, it got many of us to play who otherwise might not have, and helped not just to attract fresh blood, but to give us a reason to stick around.

I also think there's a benefit to these incubator games in that they act as an arena for exploration and learning that, for the most part, would not have a place in a lot of veteran games. I've read more old games over the past week, and sure, lots of time noobs are getting lynched right off the bat because of critical or destructive mistakes. But plenty of times, noobs are getting lynched because the veterans prefer not to boot vets early, if they can help it. In this format, we were able to test out some of the more entrenched veteran rules and learn for ourselves why they're important, or what situations might constitute an exception to those rules. In a few of the previous games I've read, we'd have just been told "that's the rule because it is, idiot", and been lynched. I know it drove the mentors up the wall to hear us talking about profiles being set to private, but in this game, when Hayley logged on after not openly participating in the thread for several days and immediately changed her settings, it seemed like a pretty strong wolf-tell. Seeing that strategy backfire with Steph was a better learning experience than just being told "we don't do that, so I'm lynching you." Certainly don't learn as much that way, and I can absolutely see how it would be discouraging for newcomers.

 

[dyachei]

What game was this?! I wanna read it!

LoTR I think

 

[dyachei]

I don't see a problem with 1 noob game. I just think that after that, you should probably play in a game with veterans

 

[Kam325]

I don't see a problem with 1 noob game. I just think that after that, you should probably play in a game with veterans

It will definitely be a lot of fun to play with and against our mentors. I think we all jumped at the mention of the noob game because we're so excited to play any game again. Great to hear that WZ and Gwen have already been working on one!

 

[LetItSnow]

Personally, I think people should play whatever games they want. If noobs want more noob games .... Ok, whatever. Great.

But newer players, if you play with more experienced players and pull any of that strategy after death stuff - you won't be invited back. That stuff was not cool.

 

[Kam325]

Ignore, it's double posting for some reason and I can't delete.

 

[Lupin21]

I think another noob game would be fun! Maybe one a bit more complex (mayor election, whatever else) so we can learn about that. We don't have to have mentors, either, especially since not everyone had equal access to mentors anyways. What works for a few people won't work for the majority, and it's pretty clear another noob game would be fun and beneficial for us. I'd rather learn the game a bit more (especially since I feel like I was just skimming the entire time with classes and whatnot) before playing with the more experienced and losing interest quickly. Plus, I also feel like I was more included in the community for once playing with these guys.

This statement drove it home pretty hard that some of you completely missed the point of this game. It was about as complex as it gets. A mayor is not a complex mechanic. It is something that can add a bit of power to a villager (or wolf) that doesn't exist involving lynch cancellations or tie breaker, which I had as an ability in my game. sometimes it means nothing, sometimes it can be something else. Completely mod dependent and is just another tool in the box of tricks.

I had pretty much every role available out there for both wolves and villagers. There were mechanics that none of you caught on to and missed by such a wide margin, it didn't even occur to you to ask me about them in the after game discussions. The point of this game is to pay attention to details, learn what to say and when, and win the game when you correctly apply those abilities.

Mechanics can get complicated and should only be implemented if the basics of the game are understood. Even in a veteran game, sometimes mods try to get too inventive with something that hasn't been done before and can make the game less fun because they are too obtuse and take away the simple element of good vs evil.

I honestly do not care whether you guys play another noob game or jump in with the big fishies, but you need to at least understand what the game is about.

 

[dyachei]

yes, but honestly, I don't think lynching noobs will happen as much with newer games. A lot of us had good things to say in the mentor PM about some gameplay

 

[hazelmoo]

yes, but honestly, I don't think lynching noobs will happen as much with newer games. A lot of us had good things to say in the mentor PM about some gameplay

What were some good strategies that you guys noticed from everyone?

 

[Gwenevre]

STB played really well.

 

[Kam325]

There were mechanics that none of you caught on to and missed by such a wide margin, it didn't even occur to you to ask me about them in the after game discussions.

Looks like this sick day won't be so boring after all!

 

[Trilt]

I stopped asking questions about mechanics because literally every time somebody did, people said "it depends who is running the game!" Which is fine - that's fun! - but I don't see it as shocking that people who are absolutely, 100% new to a game are going to miss things.

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

STB played really well.

I agree mainly because they were one of the few characters that took me most of the game to figure out which side they were on. But is that what you are referring to, or is there something specific you would like to point out?

 

[katashark]

I died the first night. I didn't really get a chance to play/learn/do anything other than post strategy from the dead and was subsequently yelled at (which I completely understand was bad and I'm sorry and it won't happen in the future). Frankly, I'd like the opportunity to play again. I don't care who is in the game, but I like the idea of inclusivity. I'd prefer newbies, but I'll play regardless.

 

[Lupin21]

I stopped asking questions about mechanics because literally every time somebody did, people said "it depends who is running the game!" Which is fine - that's fun! - but I don't see it as shocking that people who are absolutely, 100% new to a game are going to miss things.

That was in game and the mentors were blind to the game as well. That is why they are asked after the game directly to the mods. I agree 100% that I expected you all to miss some things. I stated that this game was originally meant for more veteran players. But pp stated that she thought a game that was more complex should be run for you all to learn more, and that alerted me to the fact that some of you completely missed the fact that you need to learn the basic strategy of WW before thinking the game is all about crazy mechanics.

 

[Trilt]

That was in game and the mentors were blind to the game as well. That is why they are asked after the game directly to the mods. I agree 100% that I expected you all to miss some things. I stated that this game was originally meant for more veteran players. But pp stated that she thought a game that was more complex should be run for you all to learn more, and that alerted me to the fact that some of you completely missed the fact that you need to learn the basic strategy of WW before thinking the game is all about crazy mechanics.

Guess I just never really thought to ask in depth questions about game mechanics afterwards. Seems less important then. I thought it was super fun and that there was enough complexity for me - I'd love to hear things we missed now that you brought it up, though.

 

[dyachei]

What were some good strategies that you guys noticed from everyone?

it wasn't strategies so much as thought process and gameplay

 

[Lupin21]

Guess I just never really thought to ask in depth questions about game mechanics afterwards. Seems less important then. I thought it was super fun and that there was enough complexity for me - I'd love to hear things we missed.

I was surprised people didn't catch on to the two kills per night and the link between all the second deaths. It would have saved the villagers some heartache. You all were so quick to reveal your characters, pp had no trouble figuring out the likely naughty characters and allowing the wolves two kills per night.

WZ asked some of the questions for you as well. She asked what would have made the tinker toys fail, or Violet's inventions. And Swin's power of canceling a night's actions generally prompts veterans to ask about consequences of using that power, and I expected her not to know to ask that. I left it as a hopeful learning experience because I wanted you all to learn to question your future mods about anything and everything you can when it comes to exploiting your abilities. Most of the time the mods will refuse to answer, but it is a good thing to think about. I was so amazed that swin didn't discuss with you guys canceling night actions on the thread, as most villagers with that power make sure that no villagers lose anything if that happens.

Those were the most important things that I felt you all missed.

 

[WildZoo]

I like asking mods questions after the game because
1) General curiosity
2) it helps me understand some mechanics that I can steal for designing my own games

 

[WildZoo]

I hope there's enough spots for us! How many games do you have to play to no longer be considered a noob? 3 or 4?

As a lifetime member of the Forever Noob club, I have no answer to this question.

 

[Trilt]

Well whether or not MJ runs another noob game, Gwen and I should be done with our Golden Compass game by the beginning of next week. 25 roles, we'll be giving first preference to veterans (a day for them to sign up first) and then noobs can sign up too. So that's an option too!

I flippin love the golden compass series. ;_; If you don't have the mulefa in that game somehow, I'd be super sad.

 

[WildZoo]

I flippin love the golden compass series. ;_; If you don't have the mulefa in that game somehow, I'd be super sad.

No spoilers!

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

I haven't read them. I guess I have a homework assignment . I can probably get through only 1000 or so pages a day (depending on book complexity) with my new work schedule and kid stuff... How many books do I have ahead of me? I can double or triple that if need be, but with far less retention...

 

[WildZoo]

I haven't read them. I guess I have a homework assignment . I can probably get through only 1000 or so pages a day (depending on book complexity) with my new work schedule and kid stuff... How many books do I have ahead of me? I can double or triple that if need be, but with far less retention...

Three, couldn't tell you the number of pages off the top of my head though. I think it's under 500 each.

 

[Trilt]

I haven't read them. I guess I have a homework assignment . I can probably get through only 1000 or so pages a day (depending on book complexity) with my new work schedule and kid stuff... How many books do I have ahead of me? I can double or triple that if need be, but with far less retention...

They're fairly easy reads (YA novels), and it's only three books. Looking on amazon, the omnibus edition of all of of them is just under 1000 pages. They get better and more complex as you go along, though, so if you don't necessarily love the Golden Compass, keep going. The last is my fave.

Just don't watch the movie...

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

Cool. I'll have plenty of time before the WW game then!

 

[WildZoo]

They're fairly easy reads (YA novels), and it's only three books. Looking on amazon, the omnibus edition of all of of them is just under 1000 pages. They get better and more complex as you go along, though, so if you don't necessarily love the Golden Compass, keep going. The last is my fave.

Just don't watch the movie...

Amber Spyglass is my fave too

 

[Gwenevre]

I thought that those players that would go back and read through the night/day write ups and try to logically piece together roles and player actions and characters and such were the most outstanding players in this game.

 

[Kam325]

Hey @Lupin21, could you fill us in on what Mouse's ability was?

 

[Trilt]

Mouse just had to talk like a nerd/scientist. We seered her at some point.

 

[Lupin21]

Hey @Lupin21, could you fill us in on what Mouse's ability was?

Mouse just had to talk like a nerd/scientist. We seered her at some point.

Yep. Those can be fun roles in the right hands. You don't have to worry about being tricky and hiding yourself so the wolves won't kill you for an important ability, and if you play it right, you earn a rep for yourself as being a fun player that can possibly lead to lasting longer in future games. Or at least, that is always how I approached it.

 

[Trilt]

Yep. Those can be fun roles in the right hands. You don't have to worry about being tricky and hiding yourself so the wolves won't kill you for an important ability, and if you play it right, you earn a rep for yourself as being a fun player that can possibly lead to lasting longer in future games. Or at least, that is always how I approached it.

Actually, hey, I do have a question! Who were all the characters that qualified as "naughty"? I wanted to throw a lynch in the dark instead of trying Annie one night, I'm curious who it would have worked on.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

That was in game and the mentors were blind to the game as well. That is why they are asked after the game directly to the mods. I agree 100% that I expected you all to miss some things. I stated that this game was originally meant for more veteran players. But pp stated that she thought a game that was more complex should be run for you all to learn more, and that alerted me to the fact that some of you completely missed the fact that you need to learn the basic strategy of WW before thinking the game is all about crazy mechanics.

Well clearly, because with it being our first game, a lot of us didn't quite know what was going on (or maybe it was just me). I know you all kept recommending that we study old games, and I'll be honest and say I didn't have time to do so and likely won't anytime soon. I didn't say anything was crazy, I'm just saying it could be cool to add different aspects of the game at us so we can get a feel for it. I also think that after the game it would have been helpful for mods to rehash with us and said things like "Well, when ____ happened, I would have tried this instead of what you tried." I get that mods couldn't help with strategy, but some alternative thinking after the fact is a good learning experience!

 

[Kam325]

Yep. Those can be fun roles in the right hands. You don't have to worry about being tricky and hiding yourself so the wolves won't kill you for an important ability, and if you play it right, you earn a rep for yourself as being a fun player that can possibly lead to lasting longer in future games. Or at least, that is always how I approached it.

This (and how exuberantly Hazel took to it) was what made PBC's crow pie so much fun this game. I've started reading the game where DVMD had to post in memes...a lot of the links are broken, so it's killing me not to be able to see what she was posting!
For a good chunk of time, I was convinced Mouse must have a really juicy ability to make up for what I thought was a stringent posting restriction...

 

[Lupin21]

Well clearly, because with it being our first game, a lot of us didn't quite know what was going on (or maybe it was just me). I know you all kept recommending that we study old games, and I'll be honest and say I didn't have time to do so and likely won't anytime soon. I didn't say anything was crazy, I'm just saying it could be cool to add different aspects of the game at us so we can get a feel for it. I also think that after the game it would have been helpful for mods to rehash with us and said things like "Well, when ____ happened, I would have tried this instead of what you tried." I get that mods couldn't help with strategy, but some alternative thinking after the fact is a good learning experience!

That is what I am saying though. This game had pretty much everything that is in a WW game. I had every type of role that can be out there, I had items, clues for you all to follow in the write-ups that would help you figure out the so called "mechanics", and offered you all a chance to discuss everything after the game was over. I kept telling you all to use your mentors, and that especially applies to after game questions. You can think of it like studying. YOU guys are the ones who have to actively ask questions about what could I have done in this situation, or what did you make of that person's intentions when they did that.

I did step in as a mentor for some blaring things if some people's mentors were not available, but as I think LIS said, you want players to think for themselves and do things in a way that is natural for them. We don't want another person who does exactly what dy does in every situation. We want you guys to be individuals but ask for input from as many people as possible in order to put their own characters together. It is a lot like acting in that respect. We give you the black and white character description, but it is up to you all to do some homework and come up with the details that brings that person to life.

 

[dyachei]

Well clearly, because with it being our first game, a lot of us didn't quite know what was going on (or maybe it was just me). I know you all kept recommending that we study old games, and I'll be honest and say I didn't have time to do so and likely won't anytime soon. I didn't say anything was crazy, I'm just saying it could be cool to add different aspects of the game at us so we can get a feel for it. I also think that after the game it would have been helpful for mods to rehash with us and said things like "Well, when ____ happened, I would have tried this instead of what you tried." I get that mods couldn't help with strategy, but some alternative thinking after the fact is a good learning experience!

yeah but you could have asked us different questions on gameplay. Or listened when we told you things. The wolves had an uncanny knack to ignore what their mentors tried to tell them

 

[pinkpuppy9]

I was surprised people didn't catch on to the two kills per night and the link between all the second deaths. It would have saved the villagers some heartache. You all were so quick to reveal your characters, pp had no trouble figuring out the likely naughty characters and allowing the wolves two kills per night.

WZ asked some of the questions for you as well. She asked what would have made the tinker toys fail, or Violet's inventions. And Swin's power of canceling a night's actions generally prompts veterans to ask about consequences of using that power, and I expected her not to know to ask that. I left it as a hopeful learning experience because I wanted you all to learn to question your future mods about anything and everything you can when it comes to exploiting your abilities. Most of the time the mods will refuse to answer, but it is a good thing to think about. I was so amazed that swin didn't discuss with you guys canceling night actions on the thread, as most villagers with that power make sure that no villagers lose anything if that happens.

Those were the most important things that I felt you all missed.

Overall, I don't think I played well. I managed to escape being lynched until it was painfully obvious, but that's about it lol.

yeah but you could have asked us different questions on gameplay. Or listened when we told you things. The wolves had an uncanny knack to ignore what their mentors tried to tell them

I mean after you guys told me to avoid lying/bandwagoning/etc., I thought I did a decent job of following that....

 

[Ashgirl]

This (and how exuberantly Hazel took to it) was what made PBC's crow pie so much fun this game. I've started reading the game where DVMD had to post in memes...a lot of the links are broken, so it's killing me not to be able to see what she was posting!
For a good chunk of time, I was convinced Mouse must have a really juicy ability to make up for what I thought was a stringent posting restriction...

Yeah, this is definitely not always true . My second noob game I had the post-restriction of JUST posting gifs/images the ENTIRE game. No ability what-so-ever haha. It was horrible the first few days and then it became kinda fun

 

[Lupin21]

Actually, hey, I do have a question! Who were all the characters that qualified as "naughty"? I wanted to throw a lynch in the dark instead of trying Annie one night, I'm curious who it would have worked on.

You killed all of them. Edmund, Max, Peter Pan, Huck Finn, and Sunny. Although Sunny was the wolf kill, not a PP kill. I made it horribly obvious as to which children would likely be considered naughty both to help the noob wolves and to teach the village a lesson in jumping straight to role revealing as a defense instead of defending game play. Also in this case, to teach people to look at gameplay and not just character reveals when grilling other players.

I was also disappointed that the etch-a-sketch was not used more strategically. That was basically a way for information to get to desired destinations behind the scenes. The same for Teep's role. It was known that was his ability, but you guys didn't use that as a "Hey Teep! Come talk to me!" Then had Teep be your way to spread info without hopefully having wolves see it in the thread.

I will tell you a couple more peeves of mine as a mod. When people gripe about not having a "role", aka they are vanilla, and when people gripe about no PMing when in fact, there are some excellent means of passing that same info using items/abilities. Do you run the risk of a wolf possibly getting that info? Yes. Gambling is a huge part of the game. But that is also why you make clues as to what is happening on the thread or with another player so if something happens to you, it points to the culprit.

There are so many levels in intrigue in this game and that is why I love it. It makes me so sad that people just play it half heartedly at times when there is so much more to delve into. Don't get me wrong, I am well aware that it takes time to play the game this way. But that, in my opinion, is why you sign up only when you have the time to play, or if you really want to play, and I mean more than show up every couple days to toss in a lynch vote without any reasoning behind it, you PM the mods and ask for a less intricate role.

I could probably go on for hours about some of this stuff, but it rarely changes how people play. I do actually enjoy noob games because there are usually at least a couple players that are actually going to play the game this way, and that makes future games much more enjoyable. When everyone is doing their best to figure things out and strategize, the games become very close to LARPing. Good Nerd Stuff right there.

 

[pinkpuppy9]

Frankly, I thought I was being completely foolish when I repeatedly asked for role reveals. I thought I may have asked/brought it up more than anyone else, or at least it felt like it because I was always worried when I did. Now you all know why, though! That and going along with everyone who was voting to lynch villagers based on inactivity was a weak strategy too, lol. Also, once people started revealing some abilities, that determined a lot of wolf action too

 

[hazelmoo]

I think that my strategy this game was to just seem as innocent as possible.. To everyone. It worked well because I got lucky with a few items (and I got lucky by being protected), but when I got turned into a wolf and was reading their conversation, they really wanted to kill me because of the cawing incident. I knew that when the wolves tried to kill me, I could have just hopped in my waggon to escape. But I also could have saved it for future use in case the villagers tried to lynch me. Idk, there were definitely things I could have done better, but I also think that if I withheld my role very long the villagers would have tried to lynch me at some point, and I wanted the wolves to know that I wasn't a threat.
AND I loved my "ability"- affinity for items, because it was exciting to see what I would get each night. I tried to hide my ability for as long as possible because, again, I didn't want to be a threat. But it made me so mad that all the wolves used this as their "go to" ability because it made me look super guilty in the end!

 

[pinkpuppy9]

I think that my strategy this game was to just seem as innocent as possible.. To everyone. It worked well because I got lucky with a few items (and I got lucky by being protected), but when I got turned into a wolf and was reading their conversation, they really wanted to kill me because of the cawing incident. I knew that when the wolves tried to kill me, I could have just hopped in my waggon to escape. But I also could have saved it for future use in case the villagers tried to lynch me. Idk, there were definitely things I could have done better, but I also think that if I withheld my role very long the villagers would have tried to lynch me at some point, and I wanted the wolves to know that I wasn't a threat.
AND I loved my "ability"- affinity for items, because it was exciting to see what I would get each night. I tried to hide my ability for as long as possible because, again, I didn't want to be a threat. But it made me so mad that all the wolves used this as their "go to" ability because it made me look super guilty in the end!

I only wanted to kill you because the cawing was annoying

 

[LadyOtheFarm]

Hence why I was killed off right away . The game would have been smoother if people read back through the thread more often. I think pp9 and a few other wolves would have been spotted faster if people did, but I suppose, even if unintended, the strategy of over posting so very few people read everything worked in the wolves advantage. Questions were answered, but you had to pay attention. I also think some of this stuff is more obvious after playing through one game.

Remember how confused we all were? Read through just the first day and night (9 freaking pages) and see how many things you missed. Or just search for all of the mod posts (SOV and Lupin) and see what you missed in the lynch and night write ups. I promise you'll find a few places to face palm.

 

[Lupin21]

Hence why I was killed off right away . The game would have been smoother if people read back through the thread more often. I think pp9 and a few other wolves would have been spotted faster if people did, but I suppose, even if unintended, the strategy of over posting so very few people read everything worked in the wolves advantage. Questions were answered, but you had to pay attention. I also think some of this stuff is more obvious after playing through one game.

Remember how confused we all were? Read through just the first day and night (9 freaking pages) and see how many things you missed. Or just search for all of the mod posts (SOV and Lupin) and see what you missed in the lynch and night write ups. I promise you'll find a few places to face palm.

This is also why DVMD and Dy are of the opinion that one noob game is sufficient and the learning speed will be increased when you all join the vets in play. Things will suddenly jump out at you when a vet points it out, and in game growth happens as opposed to after the thought and only addressed if you guys think to ask about it.

 

[dyachei]

when you all join the vets in play.

this works on 2 levels for some of us