Wayne State University part 01

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man, you guys are geeks, 87%, what the hell is wrong with you guys. Thank god I am not a second year

for the lab, just go to the review, and do those case studies on the computer, and you will get a perfect score. Everything on that exam comes straight from that review and those case studies. I sucked in lab, but got a perfect score just because I focused on that review, especially the stuff from mark's CD. He has pictures of everything

Good luck
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Shangal said:
man, you guys are geeks, 87%, what the hell is wrong with you guys. Thank god I am not a second year

for the lab, just go to the review, and do those case studies on the computer, and you will get a perfect score. Everything on that exam comes straight from that review and those case studies. I sucked in lab, but got a perfect score just because I focused on that review, especially the stuff from mark's CD. He has pictures of everything

Good luck
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thanks. so how is your 3rd year going?
 
fun8stuff said:
thanks. so how is your 3rd year going?
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It sucks, but it is still way much better than 2nd year. I am dreading surgery in Nov, but it should all be downhill after that. So far I've eliminated Ob/gyn and neuro from the list of things I might consider doing with my life and added them to the hell no category. Anyone else?
 
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katrinadams9 said:
It sucks, but it is still way much better than 2nd year. I am dreading surgery in Nov, but it should all be downhill after that. So far I've eliminated Ob/gyn and neuro from the list of things I might consider doing with my life and added them to the hell no category. Anyone else?
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what was bad about neuro?
 
year 2 in my opinion is going to be the worse year of your life, especially if you have no background on that stuff, like I did.

good luck man,
 
oldjeeps said:
You ever do (or ever been present for) multiple full neuro exams in one day?
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I was referring to the neuro rotation. What was so bad about the profession. Are you referring to the class exams in neuro or the neuro physical exams. I have had the first year class, which I found interesting.... but that is where my experience stops.

So if you are talking about neuro physical exams, no I have not. What are they like? Rather extensive, repetitive, and boring?
 
fun8stuff said:
I was referring to the neuro rotation. What was so bad about the profession. Are you referring to the class exams in neuro or the neuro physical exams. I have had the first year class, which I found interesting.... but that is where my experience stops.

So if you are talking about neuro physical exams, no I have not. What are they like? Rather extensive, repetitive, and boring?
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Maybe it's better at other hospitals, but the teaching isn't all that great downtown for neuro. Plus, I am sick of rounding for hours and hours. It is very boring if the attending isn't involving you (aka pimping or teaching). I don't mind being at the hospital if I am being taught, seeing interesting patients, doing real neuro consults. What I hate is being sent to do a consult for a bull**** altered mental status patient who is not awake enough to get a history or do much of an exam. :mad: I am actually looking forward to the crazy people next month on psych.
 
deowolf04 said:
Are you joking? I'll take the stroke patients; just give me sane patients again.
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I don't mind stroke patients. They're actually really interesting to do an H & P on.... I just really hate it when the ED calls for a neuro consult for mental status changes and the patient is pretty much comatose. Half the time it's due to their coke snorting, alcohol abuse, kidney failure, or some other non-neuro problem.
 
I was wondering what you all do to handle stress. And please don't tell me going to the bar and getting drunk. All I do is listen to loud, rock, music in the morning while working out but that isn't giving me enough energy and doesn't take the stress out of me for the rest of the day. So I am kind of thinking about smoking again. I know smoking is bad and everything, but I miss it so much right now, and I can't think of anything else that is .......... I know, its sad, but I actually have a cigerate in my pocket all the time and I put it in my mouth and imagine myself smoking without actually smoking it, its actually more pathetic then sad.

well any ideas?
 
Shangal said:
I was wondering what you all do to handle stress. And please don't tell me going to the bar and getting drunk. All I do is listen to loud, rock, music in the morning while working out but that isn't giving me enough energy and doesn't take the stress out of me for the rest of the day. So I am kind of thinking about smoking again. I know smoking is bad and everything, but I miss it so much right now, and I can't think of anything else that is .......... I know, its sad, but I actually have a cigerate in my pocket all the time and I put it in my mouth and imagine myself smoking without actually smoking it, its actually more pathetic then sad.

well any ideas?
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hahaha... that is really funny. If you are a guy, you could always just go out to the bar and use the "i'm a doc" line..yada yada yada..a few 1 night stands later, a lot less stress.... except for the chancres.. those might suck.
 
so what kind of hours of work do i have to look forward to next year?
 
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yeah, that work out. If I ever tell random people that I am a doctor, or doctor in training, please shoot me

and the hours for year 3 depends on the rotation and hospital. Plus if you get your work done early you can get out early, unless you want to stand out, then you can stay longer

year 2 is going to be your worse year, so don't work about year 3 now, you are already in hell
 
Shangal said:
yeah, that work out. If I ever tell random people that I am a doctor, or doctor in training, please shoot me

and the hours for year 3 depends on the rotation and hospital. Plus if you get your work done early you can get out early, unless you want to stand out, then you can stay longer

year 2 is going to be your worse year, so don't work about year 3 now, you are already in hell
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well, i do not mind sleeping in everyday and not having to go to class. the studying and exams kind of suck, but other than i'm okay so far. i know it gets worse.

what i am worried about is having to get up at 5am for multiple days. i know at some point i will have to get used to this... probably next year. :scared:

but i am glad to hear that 3rd year is better.
 
third year is not better. that's a pile of crap. anyone who tells you that hasn't done surgery and ob/gyn yet.
 
Flobber said:
third year is not better. that's a pile of crap. anyone who tells you that hasn't done surgery and ob/gyn yet.
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I didn't think Ob/gyn was that bad. Were you at Hutzel? I definitely recommend any other hospital if you don't want to do Ob/gyn. I had a great time at Providence because I wasn't overworked and had time to learn everything for the shelf.

I haven't had surgery yet, but I am dreading it. Still though, I feel like 3rd year is miles above 2nd. I'm not feeling beaten down or depressed like last year. And we don't have stupid profs writing our exams, so we know what to expect. Even if they are quite hard, at least stupid Wayne isn't curving them and there isn't a freakin' z-score!!!
 
There is a scheduled forum by the dean regarding this later in the week. I plan to attend.

You hear different versions of what exactly is happening, depending upon who side that person takes. Can WSU survive without DMC? Probably, though it will be a few years rough transition, serious damaging the current students. Can DMC survive without WSU? Probably, though it will be a rough year or three, and they will have to bring in A LOT of outside physicians (read, recruit FMG/FMD's), and in doing so, seriously damage their reputation, and quality of service. What is all the squabbling doing right this moment? The 4th year students across the country are in the apps process, and this will keep many of the higher ranked candidates away from DMC programs, for fear of problems, such as those Ortho residents who had to look for new places, and now it seems, CTsurg is going. I know that even though a DMC program I am (was?) interested in is very highly regarded across the country, it has fallen well down my list of places I want to apply, due in part to the instability of the program.

One way or another, we'll know by the end of the year.
 
Drat. We were finally moved. We all have to post LOTS to keep from being lost in busy subforum!

And on a seperate note, I hope they stream the forum.... I want to know whats going on but I'm way behind with this micro....

and on a third note, Burak gives me a serious migrane.
 
Soleil9 said:
Drat. We were finally moved. We all have to post LOTS to keep from being lost in busy subforum!

And on a seperate note, I hope they stream the forum.... I want to know whats going on but I'm way behind with this micro....

and on a third note, Burak gives me a serious migrane.
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burak didnt bother me as much as the others who had ambiguous, subjective questions with multiple choices that were correct.
 
fun8stuff said:
burak didnt bother me as much as the others who had ambiguous, subjective questions with multiple choices that were correct.
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I know! There were at least...15 of them?!?! And I kept going between 2 answers, "well that would be autonomy, but this other one is pts. best interest"...and "well the lady didn't really quit smoking sooo contemplation...but she did switch brands, but that's a wimpy action" grr.
 
dancinjenn said:
I know! There were at least...15 of them?!?! And I kept going between 2 answers, "well that would be autonomy, but this other one is pts. best interest"...and "well the lady didn't really quit smoking sooo contemplation...but she did switch brands, but that's a wimpy action" grr.
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congrats on the baby!
 
Yeah, I did see that the challenge box was quite full.

But Yeah!!! No Clin med lectures for awhile!
 
fun8stuff said:
congrats on the baby!
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Thanks....I know that I'm biased, but she is so cute! I just had to update my avatar with her. That picture is currently our desktop as well. She is gaining weight like a champ, about 1.5 oz per day, which is great...she is now a full pound above her birth weight and she'll be 3 weeks old tomorrow. Of course now all I wish for is a full nights sleep, don't think I'll be getting that for the next couple of years though.
 
do any of you remember to the answer to the question about the flexnor report. i was in between the one that talk about the US and Canada having him look at med education and the one that said he suggested that med schools be associated with large universities and get funds for research. i thought both of these were true!:mad:
 
Flexnor was employed by the Carnegie Foundation, to study American schools. He toured both American and Canadian institutions, comparing them to the German model of medical education.

Flexnor recommendations were:
1) HS diploma and 2 years college or equiv.
2) 4 year med school curriculum, 2 yeras BMS and 2 years clinical
3) medical schools should be associated with universities, and those that are should receive funds for research
4) supported allopathic medicine
 
airferret said:
Flexnor was employed by the Carnegie Foundation, to study American schools. He toured both American and Canadian institutions, comparing them to the German model of medical education.

Flexnor recommendations were:
1) HS diploma and 2 years college or equiv.
2) 4 year med school curriculum, 2 yeras BMS and 2 years clinical
3) medical schools should be associated with universities, and those that are should receive funds for research
4) supported allopathic medicine
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i could have swore #3 was an option on the exam question... was it worded differently?
 
It was an option. By the way scores are posted. Average is around 77.
 
the scores are not showing up online for me.

seems like a low average for a clinmed exam. yikes.

yeah i thought that those were both listed as options.. one of those questions that had 2 answers.
 
They were posted on the wall at school this afternoon. Not on line yet. About 34 or so came in below the 70 % pass/fail mark. Yea, pretty dismal. Hope micro results today were better.
 
I just read the post, and raced over as fast as my fingers and internet speed could go, to blackboard....only to be disappointed.........(no suprise here at WSFU2)...:(

But hey, they are posted upstairs, right? Hardcopy !! So, I scamper upstairs (yes, I scampered) to the coarkboards, and?? Nothing for CMII.... wtf??:mad:

It seems they had problems putting the scores on blackboard, so of course, logic would say, take them immediately off from the corkboards as well even though they are already posted... Why, do you ask?? Cause it's WSFU2, that's why!! :p

WSU, an administration is putting the Peter Principle into Scientific Law....from the University President and BoG, right down to the library custodial staff (for those who read the bathroom saga emails a week back).;)
 
airferret said:
I just read the post, and raced over as fast as my fingers and internet speed could go, to blackboard....only to be disappointed.........(no suprise here at WSFU2)...:(

But hey, they are posted upstairs, right? Hardcopy !! So, I scamper upstairs (yes, I scampered) to the coarkboards, and?? Nothing for CMII.... wtf??:mad:

It seems they had problems putting the scores on blackboard, so of course, logic would say, take them immediately off from the corkboards as well even though they are already posted... Why, do you ask?? Cause it's WSFU2, that's why!! :p

WSU, an administration is putting the Peter Principle into Scientific Law....from the University President and BoG, right down to the library custodial staff (for those who read the bathroom saga emails a week back).;)
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haha... they probably accidently deleted their copy on the computer and are now typing them back in by hand from the printed copies!
 
so do you guys think you passed the lab exam? it sure was a doozy...
 
Yeah. The average better not be 24/25. It probably wil be though. That's the way it works. Well, except for that last clin-med test....
 
Micro 4 and lab scores are up.
 
Soleil9 said:
Micro 4 and lab scores are up.
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A two question wrong average, crazy! Wonder what pass rate will be? Of course I still have to take the tests I missed. Let's pray for less than 70 on the pass rate.

On to the P's...Is is just me or do the pharm notes suck?
 
DancinJenn, congrats on the new baby! She is beautiful and bright-eyed. :D I hope you and the baby can get to enjoy some good ole sleep soon! Take care. :)
 
dancinjenn said:
A two question wrong average, crazy! Wonder what pass rate will be? Of course I still have to take the tests I missed. Let's pray for less than 70 on the pass rate.

On to the P's...Is is just me or do the pharm notes suck?
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which tests did you miss?

yes, the pharm notes from what i have seen (only the first lecture). It is more of a textbook, than notes. He should have included an outline!
 
I totally agree about Yamazaki. For both Path and Pharm I am jonesin' for an outline. That's my goal for this morning (I'm on the home-study plan) is to make an out line of the lectures. I just can't see the important points easily when they are in full sentances. Even with highlighting.
 
Soleil9 said:
I totally agree about Yamazaki. For both Path and Pharm I am jonesin' for an outline. That's my goal for this morning (I'm on the home-study plan) is to make an out line of the lectures. I just can't see the important points easily when they are in full sentances. Even with highlighting.
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yeah, i try and watch lecture to find out what is important, then make the outline. still not easy though!
 
fun8stuff said:
which tests did you miss?

yes, the pharm notes from what i have seen (only the first lecture). It is more of a textbook, than notes. He should have included an outline!
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Micro 3 & 4 (got any good tips?). I ended up taking the lab (and clin med) to get it (them) out of the way and because it is really hard for them to set up a make-up exam for the lab, due to the fact that they have to regrow everything and apparently it costs a ton. So I take Micro 3 on Monday morning, and then I'll take micro 4 on the Nov make-up date.

So I have been studying for the make-up but trying not to get too behind on the new stuff. I figure I won't make much headway with the new stuff until next Monday, but I can at least read the lectures thru so I have an idea of the material.
 
sistahnik said:
DancinJenn, congrats on the new baby! She is beautiful and bright-eyed. :D I hope you and the baby can get to enjoy some good ole sleep soon! Take care. :)
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I'm sorry, could you tell me what sleep is again? I think it is where you get to lay down...something about closing your eyes....was it quiet?...can't remember.

I'ts not really that bad, and her overnight feedings are down to two, so I can get about two 3-4 hour stretches. Or one 7-8 hour stretch if hubby takes the 5 am feeding, and then doesn't have problems with the diaper or the burping (usually 50-50 odds on those).
 
dancinjenn said:
Micro 3 & 4 (got any good tips?). I ended up taking the lab (and clin med) to get it (them) out of the way and because it is really hard for them to set up a make-up exam for the lab, due to the fact that they have to regrow everything and apparently it costs a ton. So I take Micro 3 on Monday morning, and then I'll take micro 4 on the Nov make-up date.

So I have been studying for the make-up but trying not to get too behind on the new stuff. I figure I won't make much headway with the new stuff until next Monday, but I can at least read the lectures thru so I have an idea of the material.
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Man, that is going to be tough. The third was the hardest for me, but that might just be because the average was high and i took all of labor day weekend off. As you probably know, the most important thing to know are the objectives that Jackson states. To know how to identify all the bugs, identify the symptoms, and how to treat. I remember there were things in Ebright's lecture that I wished I had studied harder. If they one of the bugs has a something unique about it (such as how to diagnose it), then you better know that (know how to diagnose herpes). Most of the symptoms in the questions seemed pretty classic, so work on know classic symptoms (i.e. watery diarhea & seafood = cholera). For the fourth exam, I found it helpful to know the same types of things. I watched lerner's question session (it was on a friday) the night before the exam and I found that really helpful. There were variations of those questions on the exam... definately know how to recognize and treat anaerboic infections (BF), p. aerginosa, and enterococcal. Most of lerner's questions were not as hard as they could have been: they only asked for the basic relationships... i.e. enteroc is treated with ampicillin, most strep can be treated with penn, naficillin is used for MSSA, pipericillin are for gram -- noscomial (PA).

In summary, know how to recognize the bug, recognize symptoms, and treat.
 
Well, remember how the administration tells us how committed they and the teachers are to education? We all know the administration would never, ever deceive or lie to us in any way. And the teachers? Never!!! Well.......

Where is this coming from? Today, minutes before class began at 11:00, it was discovered that the pharm lecture wasn't being streamed. Ok, fine. Announced ahead of time, for students who stream to come in? Nope. For students who occasionally have to miss a class for a meeting or something? Nope. Why?? Because it is written into the teacher's contracts they not only can they refuse to be streamed, which is their decision, but they do not have to announce it prior to the lecture. What does that mean? It means that regardless of what is said, the teacher's via their contract wording are saying "F**K You" to the students. Or maybe I am just misinterpreting the meaning a little. :mad:

If you really care, annouce that stuff ahead of time !!!!!
 
airferret said:
Well, remember how the administration tells us how committed they and the teachers are to education? We all know the administration would never, ever deceive or lie to us in any way. And the teachers? Never!!! Well.......

Where is this coming from? Today, minutes before class began at 11:00, it was discovered that the pharm lecture wasn't being streamed. Ok, fine. Announced ahead of time, for students who stream to come in? Nope. For students who occasionally have to miss a class for a meeting or something? Nope. Why?? Because it is written into the teacher's contracts they not only can they refuse to be streamed, which is their decision, but they do not have to announce it prior to the lecture. What does that mean? It means that regardless of what is said, the teacher's via their contract wording are saying "F**K You" to the students. Or maybe I am just misinterpreting the meaning a little. :mad:

If you really care, annouce that stuff ahead of time !!!!!
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yeah, i'm not happy about it either. There have to be a good number of faculty, or at least the AV guys, that know who stream lectures and who don't every year. There should be a list of these people that should be handed out at the beginning of each unit. Anybody on the curriculum committee??

I can respect the professors reasons not to stream, but can they at least have enough respect for us to let us know of their choice?
 
Try no streaming, unintelligible accent, AND no notes. Quallity education today at Wayne. Other than the very interesting patient panel, those who stayed home this morning missed absolutely nothing. I should have stayed in bed.
 
Soleil9 said:
Try no streaming, unintelligible accent, AND no notes. Quallity education today at Wayne. Other than the very interesting patient panel, those who stayed home this morning missed absolutely nothing. I should have stayed in bed.
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Well, that makes me feel better about not coming in. I was going to try, but Elise had a bad night and I was up about 3/4 of it. So instead I took a nap on the couch while she lounged in her swing.
 
I found this description of the DMC-WSU squabble on another site. Based on my knowledge and from what I've been able to gather, this is the most informed, detailed, and explicit description I have heard of.

Anonymous said:
I’d love to chime in on this little “issue.” I have a decent understanding of the events that have already played out and I find it interesting that some of this is finally starting to show its head in the papers.

It seems that the two sides did not work out an agreement by October 1st and thus will have to tell the RRC that they just can’t agree to anything. This happened on a smaller scale on March 31st when the DMC decided not to negotiate with the orthopedics department and only offered a 9-month contract extension for the other 18 departments.

I cannot begin to relay the amount of misunderstanding on the DMC, specifically Mike Duggan’s part, as well as the lack of effective leadership in the medical school. The way that these two sides are running, they are destined not to reach an agreement and the ACMGE will step in and shut the programs down.

I think that what everyone must realize, which is probably a hard concept to really grasp and understand, is that the ACGME/RRC’s role is NOT to make sure that underinsured areas have adequate medical coverage through graduate medical education. The role of this governing body is to regulate and ensure adequate quality graduate medical education for residents and fellows. If conditions are deemed “toxic” or substandard then it is the role of this body to act accordingly and place the programs on probation or to shut them down and then place the residents or fellows into qualified training programs. If, by these actions the ACGME/RRC transfers the effective workforce out of an underinsured area in the name of education, then one must realize that is the fault of the training site (i.e. DMC and WSU) for allowing this to happen. Residents and fellows rank/match into their programs to train at based on educational and geographical reasons, not because they are choosing to work in an underserved area. It is only the byproduct of this education that is the labor that helps out the community. Basically, just remember who to assign blame to when this all goes down and try not to get caught up in the social cards that the politicians will play, and are already playing. The 900 residents and fellows are here to be educated and they have all worked very hard to get to this point and it would be unfair to each and everyone of them to simply keep them working in a poor educational environment in the name of the underinsured.

A few little tidbits about the DMC and WSU…

The DMC effectively hired its own cardiology department with non-WSU physicians so that they could better dictate the role of that department.

The ENT residency is no longer affiliated with the DMC

Derm is as described in a previous post.

Rumors are that the Urology department is on its way out as well.

The orthopedic department (University Orthopedics) was actually fired originally on October 31st effective date, but after Mike Duggan and Tom Malone failed to secure the services of any orthopedic surgeons in the area to cover the DMC hospitals (essentially without residents) they had to “re-hire” that faculty group, until they could find someone to take the call and cover the cases.

The DMC did not release the CMS funding from the government (~$150.000-200,000 per year per resident) to go with the 24 junior orthopedic residents to help them find their new training sites, effectively restricting their possible choices to programs with adequate funds, and usually not very local…What the DMC is doing with this ~$6 million dollars is anyone’s guess (24 junior residents + 8 graduating seniors).

The DMC tried to start their own orthopedic residency prior to the March 31st deadline, however their program was blatantly filled with misrepresentations and empty promises such that the majority of the junior residents voted against this program, and the only ones who voted for it was due to local family issues. It was viewed as a desperation attempt by the DMC to preserve the orthopedic workforce with little guarantees of educational merit. Effectively, the ultimate head of the program would be Mike Duggan. Those who wish to disagree are misinformed. Mike Duggan has little understanding of medical issues as in a meeting with the orthopedic residents, he stated that they should be learning how to treat adolescent ACL injuries (as his daughter had one) and taking care of professional athletes, something that adds little benefit to resident education.

In a previous article, Duggan is quoted as saying that if he cannot negotiate a contract with WSU that he would take the money ($88-90 million) and pay the nation’s top specialists to work for the DMC. He fails to realize that this money is CMS funding from the government that is tied to resident education. Most/All of the programs there are dual sponsored (50:50) between WSU and DMC. One side cannon simply pull up anchor and ditch their partner and take the money and the residents. This misunderstanding led Duggan to try to take over the orthopedics residency with the known consequences. If he tried this with the other 18 departments it is likely the ACGME/RRC would act as they did before and deem this a “toxic” environment and shut down the residencies.

Both the DMC and WSU are applying for new orthopedic residencies currently. This is probably the most troubling to the previous residents. Both sides had ample opportunities to work out an agreement and because of their inactions; the closure of the previous program caused a huge disruption to 24 people’s personal and professional lives…something that is often left out of the papers. One should also not forget the status of the remaining 8 residents, who were forced to stay on at WSU/DMC to finish out their training because of board requirements to be in their final 2 years in one site. Their year now is anything but good.

Through the relocation of the 24 residents, the medical school did little to help them with their transfers.

Bottom line:

Mike Duggan is very responsible for what is going and he should be to blame when things start going downhill.

Tom Malone (Chief Medical Officer of the DMC) is Duggan’s right hand man and should not fall without blame.

Dr. Robert Frank (previous Interim Dean of WSU School of Medicine) had no leadership qualities and was bullied by Mike Duggan the DMC board and is a big reason why things have progressed this far.

Dr. Robert Mentzer (current Dean of WSU School of Medicine) came on board in early March of 2006 and seems to have the attitude that he “didn’t know things were this bad” when he started. Hard to believe that a CT transplant surgeon didn’t do his homework before starting. In his brief tenure with an orthopedic department he never addressed the residents to tell them the status of negotiations or to tell them that their program had closed or offer his support during this time.

Irving Reid (President of WSU). It is rumored that he was pressured to agree with the DMC offer of a 9 month extension for the 18 departments (minus orthopedics) by Gov. Granholm so that coverage would continue in Detroit past the November elections and that the possible maelstrom of a DMC closure would not come into play during her campaign.

What I’ve put forth is true to my understanding of the situation unless I stated it was rumor. Let me know what you think. Keep an open mind and don’t be swayed by the misinformed.
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