UVM vs UMiami Miller

[flourpower3]

Hi everyone!

I have been fortunate to be accepted to both University of Vermont College of Medicine and University of Miami Miller School of Medicine; both are so great, and I am having a difficult time picking one. Any help/perspectives/opinions are welcome.

Some info: I am OOS for both schools, but I am from the greater Boston area (so I am use to New England weather- even though I HATE it-, but also urban living).

UVM COM
Pros
- I really like the small class sizes (112 students)
- Early clinical rotations
- Close knit faculty environment
- Burlington seems like a great small town
- Happy, balanced students
Cons
- That OOS Price $$$
- Weather
- Potentially isolating place to live, as someone who is use to more city life
- I am a traditional applicant and I know a lot of people are non-traditional (Don't know if this will make it hard to make strong student connections)
- Homogenous patient population

UMiami
Pros
- Tons of clinical exposure, community outreach
- Lots of global outreach opportunities due to proximity to Haiti, Caribbean, etc
- Diverse patient population
- TONSS of hospitals and clinics on campus
- Happy, balanced students
-WEATHER!
Cons
- Larger class size (~198, 150 MD only-which I am)
- Far from family
- Expensive cost of living

Thanks for any input!

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[Serous Demilune]

What specialties are you interested in? What's the grading system like for each school?
Vermont has a 1.5 yr preclinical, which takes a lot of the pressure off in terms of getting research and away rotations done at the end of 3rd year before residency applications go out. This would be pretty important to me.

 

[flourpower3]

What specialties are you interested in? What's the grading system like for each school?
Vermont has a 1.5 yr preclinical, which takes a lot of the pressure off in terms of getting research and away rotations done at the end of 3rd year before residency applications go out. This would be pretty important to me.

Grading system for UVM: high pass, pass, fail
Grading system for UMiami: Pass, fail externally; but internally, there is a numerically grade shown I believe.

Specialities: Emergency, Internal Medicine, but honestly, I presumed other specialties interests may arise once in medical school.

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

I believe Miami has a very strong emergency medicine program, so that's something to keep in mind. I think these programs are pretty wildly different, from the weather to the patient population to the curriculum, so figure out what you really prefer and you should have your answer.

if neither really matters much to you then perhaps wait for fin aid to decide.

 

[ridethecliche]

I'd do Miami unless cost was a big concern. You're not going to have issues getting clinical experiences early at Miami, especially if you're involved in student health clinic groups etc.

Uvm and vt in general are nice, but it's the boonies compared to Miami...

 

[flourpower3]

@ridethecliche & @DoctorLacrosse Thanks for both of your posts! I have been mainly leaning toward Miami, but my only concern pushing me a little toward UVM is the difference in class size.

 

[ridethecliche]

I think Miami has a lot to offer, both as a school and as a city. I love new England ahs uvm is great, but unless you're huge into winter sports then Miami is going to win all around.

I think the class being large isn't as big a deal in med school. Why does one need small lecture classes? Not sure how that would add anything.

I'm sure @DrZeke can add more info about Miami as he's a former student.

 

[womanofscience]

Hi everyone!

I have been fortunate to be accepted to both University of Vermont College of Medicine and University of Miami Miller School of Medicine; both are so great, and I am having a difficult time picking one. Any help/perspectives/opinions are welcome.

Some info: I am OOS for both schools, but I am from the greater Boston area (so I am use to New England weather- even though I HATE it-, but also urban living).

UVM COM
Pros
- I really like the small class sizes (112 students)
- Early clinical rotations
- Close knit faculty environment
- Burlington seems like a great small town
- Happy, balanced students
Cons
- That OOS Price $$$
- Weather
- Potentially isolating place to live, as someone who is use to more city life
- I am a traditional applicant and I know a lot of people are non-traditional (Don't know if this will make it hard to make strong student connections)
- Homogenous patient population

UMiami
Pros
- Tons of clinical exposure, community outreach
- Lots of global outreach opportunities due to proximity to Haiti, Caribbean, etc
- Diverse patient population
- TONSS of hospitals and clinics on campus
- Happy, balanced students
-WEATHER!
Cons
- Larger class size (~198, 150 MD only-which I am)
- Far from family
- Expensive cost of living

Thanks for any input!

Hey there! I'm also in a similar predicament! I think it's important to think about where you feel most comfortable since it is four years of your life!

For UVM, the price tag is intimidating. However, you can arrange away rotations during your fourth year to areas with more diverse patient populations (Northwestern, Pacific NW, CA!) and I believe the third year clerkships can be done at Danbury, St.Marys, etc.

If you are already leaning toward Miami, then I'd say you are starting to get closer to a decision. It is much cheaper and you have so many opportunities for clinical exposure just because their hospital is so big! And apparently, the cost of living doesn't have to be super expensive! Check out the tips on the FB group for being financially savvy.

 

[ridethecliche]

Why would doing away rotations in a diverse region be a plus when Miami has them right there

 

[womanofscience]

Why would doing away rotations in a diverse region be a plus when Miami has them right there

It does serve a purpose. Residency applications would be just around the corner at that point and if you do well on these rotations, then it may help out. And I wouldn't say it is a plus exactly, but an opportunity!

I am struggling with the choice between these two schools as well.... And I am biased

 

[womanofscience]

And @flourpower3, think about the individual school's personality- they are vastly different. UVM is a bit more non-trad friendly, but it seems like you wouldn't have a problem making connections if you truly fit in with the persona of the school.

Miami is quite vibrant, to say the least

 

[flourpower3]

And @flourpower3, think about the individual school's personality- they are vastly different. UVM is a bit more non-trad friendly, but it seems like you wouldn't have a problem making connections if you truly fit in with the persona of the school.

Miami is quite vibrant, to say the least

@womanofscience Yes! Both the school definitely have different personalities, but I can see myself fitting in really well at both-- which obviously makes it a more difficult choice! The early clinical rotations and elective away rotations do sound compelling, but I also think both schools would provide a great education and get me where I need to go. Where are you leaning towards? If you don't mind me asking.

 

[ridethecliche]

It does serve a purpose. Residency applications would be just around the corner at that point and if you do well on these rotations, then it may help out. And I wouldn't say it is a plus exactly, but an opportunity!

I am struggling with the choice between these two schools as well.... And I am biased

That doesn't make sense because it assumes you can't do the same or better away rotations from Miami which isn't likely to be true.

 

[flourpower3]

That doesn't make sense because it assumes you can't do the same or better away rotations from Miami which isn't likely to be true.

Potentially, @womanofscience is referring to starting clinical rotations early at Vermont, so having more time and a better idea of what rotations (away or at UVM) to do to set you up for the residency of your choice. Not about the caliber of (away) rotations each school can provide you with.

 

[womanofscience]

That doesn't make sense because it assumes you can't do the same or better away rotations from Miami which isn't likely to be true.

Well, I did not get a great sense of what I could do at Miami since the interview day did not cater to MD-only applicants, which is really frustrating. In fact, I learned more about Miami(curriculum, grading, etc) on the facebook group.

Miami did not seem to stress doing away rotations while UVM did. In fact, you can even strategically coordinate your away rotations to coincide with winter months

@flourpower3 And I too find myself in the position where my personality can fit in to either school! I would definitely wait to see the financial aid packages (UVM will be out before April 30, not so sure about UMiami anymore). I am not sure the small class size should be a terribly important factor, but to each their own.

As to where I am leaning...that is a good question! I like UVM the most at this point (just came from second look) since my SO is accepted here, but waitlisted at UMiami. However, I do have a much cheaper third option so it is a pretty tough call!

 

[flourpower3]

Well, I did not get a great sense of what I could do at Miami since the interview day did not cater to MD-only applicants, which is really frustrating. In fact, I learned more about Miami(curriculum, grading, etc) on the facebook group.

Miami did not seem to stress doing away rotations while UVM did. In fact, you can even strategically coordinate your away rotations to coincide with winter months

@flourpower3 And I too find myself in the position where my personality can fit in to either school! I would definitely wait to see the financial aid packages (UVM will be out before April 30, not so sure about UMiami anymore). I am not sure the small class size should be a terribly important factor, but to each their own.

As to where I am leaning...that is a good question! I like UVM the most at this point (just came from second look) since my SO is accepted here, but waitlisted at UMiami. However, I do have a much cheaper third option so it is a pretty tough call!

Well that is exciting! I'm sure you will end up at a school you love and maybe we will meet at UVM if we both choose to attend.

 

[ridethecliche]

Uvm needs away rotation reputation than Miami does.

 

[womanofscience]

Uvm needs away rotation reputation than Miami does.

Shhhh. It's cool. UVM is a great school and UMiami is a great school. I'm pretty sure @flourpower3 can't go wrong.

 

[Willy38]

Great options! Congrats!

I vote Vermont. Skiing is unreal and the school is in a beautiful area. As you know, academically both are very solid. Can't go wrong, just buy a nice coat before headed to VT or some floral patterned linen shirts before headed to Miami !

 

[ridethecliche]

Shhhh. It's cool. UVM is a great school and UMiami is a great school. I'm pretty sure @flourpower3 can't go wrong.

Never said the op could go wrong, but I think my personal preference would be for Miami.

That said, I think Miami could do a better job of actually giving pertinent information about the school at the interview day. They really drop the ball there imho.

 

[Pholaffle]

Uvm has clinical sites in Miami

 

[flourpower3]

Uvm has clinical sites in Miami

They have one in west palm beach, yes, but that is a lottery rotation is hard to get. That is what a current student told me

 

[amad01]

They have one in west palm beach, yes, but that is a lottery rotation is hard to get. That is what a current student told me

sounds like you hit the lottery then bc you can do it all in Miami if you wish.

 

[<(^_^)>]

For what it's worth if you're at all interested in primary care miami has a poor reputation for some reason (it also was RNP vs 29 for USNWR).
http://www.best-medical-schools.com/University_of_Vermont_College_of_Medicine.html
http://www.best-medical-schools.com/University_of_Miami_Leonard_M_Miller_School_of_Medicine.html
see: primary care ranking scores. Note: this goes against what I would have thought, but it's possible UVM's empathy-oriented training outweighs the more varied clinical experience at miami for primary care. Miami beats UVM on research (although not as much as you might think because it's also a lot larger) as well as specialty.

Miami is very much "party central". One of the current students described their outreach as a "booze cruise" which was kind of disappointing but I had the feeling they were playing it up for the interviewees. There is an internal ranking that is numerically-based which seemed like it would be more stressful than grades because if you get a 95 you might think about those last 5 points vs being happy you got an A. The MD curriculum is also pretty dated (2 years).

Not to sound like I'm down on Miami there are some significant pros: absolutely massive hospital, as well as private, va, and public hospitals so you get to see different sides of medicine. Miami is a lot more specialty-oriented. The direct cost (tuition) isn't nearly as much as uvm, so you can live a bit out of the way/not near most students but save a good chunk of change on loans. Tuition is slated to decrease rather than increase the next few years and the opportunities for clinical research seem plentiful. It's also home to the bascom palmer eye institute so if you were considering optho I'd consider this a huge plus. 17 people matched into ophthalmology this year which was insane...but none into bascom which was worrisome. In the end it's clear there are a lot of opportunities there for med students, even if they don't end up making the cut to get into bascom (which, to be fair, is a damn high bar to reach as it's #1 in the nation in an already competitive specialty).

If you're strongly considering Ophthalmology: Miami 100% don't even look at Vermont
If you're committed to specializing: lean toward Miami
If you want a more "fun"/party medical school experience: Miami
If you're committed to primary care: Vermont
If you're interested in winter sports/the outdoors/nature: lean toward Vermont
If you want a more relaxed medical school experience: lean toward Vermont
If you want a more technologically savvy medical school: lean toward Vermont

The one thing absent from your post...how is your spanish? They have interpreters you can call but that seems like a horrifically awkward way to practice.

If you end up choosing miami please for the sake of your patients pick up rosetta stone too...

 

[amad01]

Tuition is slated to decrease rather than increase the next few years and the opportunities for clinical research seem plentiful. It's also home to the bascom palmer eye institute so if you were considering optho I'd consider this a huge plus. 17 people matched into ophthalmology this year which was insane...but none into bascom which was worrisome. In the end it's clear there are a lot of opportunities there for med students, even if they don't end up making the cut to get into bascom (which, to be fair, is a damn high bar to reach as it's #1 in the nation in an already competitive specialty).

Nice post. I'm curious if bascom selects against UM graduates as if they do not trust or respect their own school? Or if they fill the class with top tier grads and UM grads can't keep up... very suspicious that out of 17 none stayed home.

Also, where can I learn more about the tuition being slated to decrease?

 

[ConsultantMD]

I'm in a similar boat but instead of UVM, I'm considering Dartmouth. They are complete opposites in terms of locations for sure. I'm not sure what UVM's match list looks like but Dartmouth's was impressive last year so I don't feel limited in terms of how the hospital or the rotations will impact ability to match.

 

[flourpower3]

For what it's worth if you're at all interested in primary care miami has a poor reputation for some reason (it also was RNP vs 29 for USNWR).
http://www.best-medical-schools.com/University_of_Vermont_College_of_Medicine.html
http://www.best-medical-schools.com/University_of_Miami_Leonard_M_Miller_School_of_Medicine.html
see: primary care ranking scores. Note: this goes against what I would have thought, but it's possible UVM's empathy-oriented training outweighs the more varied clinical experience at miami for primary care. Miami beats UVM on research (although not as much as you might think because it's also a lot larger) as well as specialty.

Miami is very much "party central". One of the current students described their outreach as a "booze cruise" which was kind of disappointing but I had the feeling they were playing it up for the interviewees. There is an internal ranking that is numerically-based which seemed like it would be more stressful than grades because if you get a 95 you might think about those last 5 points vs being happy you got an A. The MD curriculum is also pretty dated (2 years).

Not to sound like I'm down on Miami there are some significant pros: absolutely massive hospital, as well as private, va, and public hospitals so you get to see different sides of medicine. Miami is a lot more specialty-oriented. The direct cost (tuition) isn't nearly as much as uvm, so you can live a bit out of the way/not near most students but save a good chunk of change on loans. Tuition is slated to decrease rather than increase the next few years and the opportunities for clinical research seem plentiful. It's also home to the bascom palmer eye institute so if you were considering optho I'd consider this a huge plus. 17 people matched into ophthalmology this year which was insane...but none into bascom which was worrisome. In the end it's clear there are a lot of opportunities there for med students, even if they don't end up making the cut to get into bascom (which, to be fair, is a damn high bar to reach as it's #1 in the nation in an already competitive specialty).

If you're strongly considering Ophthalmology: Miami 100% don't even look at Vermont
If you're committed to specializing: lean toward Miami
If you want a more "fun"/party medical school experience: Miami
If you're committed to primary care: Vermont
If you're interested in winter sports/the outdoors/nature: lean toward Vermont
If you want a more relaxed medical school experience: lean toward Vermont
If you want a more technologically savvy medical school: lean toward Vermont

The one thing absent from your post...how is your spanish? They have interpreters you can call but that seems like a horrifically awkward way to practice.

If you end up choosing miami please for the sake of your patients pick up rosetta stone too...

Thanks for your input! My Spanish: I was fortunate enough to grow up in a public school system that taught us Spanish Kindergarten through High school. With that said entering college, I was VERY conversational and some of my friends were fluent. But, five years have passed, so I am definitely not as good anymore, but with some review, I think I could get a lot back.

You put a lot of good points to consider for each school! I love the outdoors/nature, not that into winter sport or the cold and I know Vermont is very cold for a large part of the year. (I'm from Boston area, so I know what to expect, but I will hate the winter, like I do now hahaha).

Also would like to know why you think tuition is slated to go down?

@ConsultantMD Congrats on Dartmouth and Miami!! Here is Miami's match list for this year: http://admissions.med.miami.edu/md-programs/match-day-results

 

[ConsultantMD]

Sorry my response got truncated! I did not want to hijack your thread. I was going to say that I'm taking the away rotations as being a non issue for residency and it might even be a benefit to help lay ground work for matching/networking.

Good luck deciding! It's certainly tough but a good position to be in. I am kind of hoping I get off a waitlist that will combine what I like about both schools (minus the weather).

 

[flourpower3]

Sorry my response got truncated! I did not want to hijack your thread. I was going to say that I'm taking the away rotations as being a non issue for residency and it might even be a benefit to help lay ground work for matching/networking.

Good luck deciding! It's certainly tough but a good position to be in. I am kind of hoping I get off a waitlist that will combine what I like about both schools (minus the weather).

I'm in a similar situation, where I am waiting on post-interview decision from my state school, which would make my decision a lot easier! Good luck next year where ever you end up!