Tufts vs Jefferson vs FIU vs Wayne (in-state)

[KelMD]

Hey Guys,

I'm really lucky to have four acceptances. Problem is, I am lost with which to choose. I am leaning towards Jeff or Tufts, but FIU still has my heart. Here are my pro/cons. Also, since I am not from Philly or Boston, I really don't have a good idea about how people feel about these schools. I think Tufts might be more well known than Jeff because it has a good undergrad, but the schools seemed pretty similar and I got a sense I could be happy at either.

Wayne:
Pros-
In-state tuition
Near my significant other (though he'll be applying over the next cycle and doesn't want to go here, so...)
Cons-
Huge class size
My undergrad is a feeder for this school (no change in people/diversity)
Didn't get good vibes from the students
Students don't really match for residencies in any place I am interested in staying/going
Internal ranking

FIU:
Pros-
Tiny class size (80)
Relationship with Miami Children's (I want to go into Peds)
New med school so they are really trying/paying attention to each student
Weather/location
Has my heart (something to do with first interview/first acceptance?)
Great Community
Students are VERY happy
Cons-
New/untested/no match list
Expensive for a new, OOS state school

Tufts:
Pros-
Medium class size
Boston location
Good clinical reputation
Match pretty well
Sherwood Student Run Clinic
Cons-
Kind of a small fish in the big Harvard pond
In Chinatown
Expensive tuition and location

Jeff:
Pros-
Philly location (Center City)
Good clinical reputation from what I can tell
Very nice people that I really liked/got along with
Penn is far enough away that it doesn't seem to overshadow it/hospital gets plenty of the "good, interesting cases"
Cons-
So-so match in comparison to Tufts (correct me if I'm wrong)
Large class size
Not very good financial aid (though I haven't got my package yet, this is just what I've heard)
Large class size

I know ultimately it is my decision/more of where I'll be happy but I think I could be happy at the very least at Tufts, Jeff, and FIU and do well from all three. The only reason Wayne is still around is because of in-state tuition. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

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[DrCox]

I'd also like to hear opinions on this. Fortunately my current choice is between a northeast private school that didn't particularly stand out to me vs Florida Atlantic, which completely has my heart. Perhaps it's something they put in the water at these new Florida schools? I'm debating withdrawing from two state school waitlists (which would each save me ~$25k/year). Currently I'm leaning towards the new school for several reasons: lots of attention (tiny class size!), lots of incentive to prepare us EXTREMELY well for the boards/good residency placements, and the all around tight-knit feel of the place. I went to a small liberal arts school and really came to value the support system. Taking post-bac classes at a large university has made me certain beyond a doubt that the things I valued about my liberal arts education (which are the same things I see in FAU) were 100% worth the $200,000 price tag of the institution. Then again, I don't think the differences among med schools are quite so pronounced as those between undergrad institutions.

However, I've been following the "80,000" thread, and it's true that that many 0's are hard to ignore. I'd be dumb to NOT save $100,000 if possible, right?
I'm interested to hear thoughts on this.

Hey Guys,

I'm really lucky to have four acceptances. Problem is, I am lost with which to choose. I am leaning towards Jeff or Tufts, but FIU still has my heart. Here are my pro/cons. Also, since I am not from Philly or Boston, I really don't have a good idea about how people feel about these schools. I think Tufts might be more well known than Jeff because it has a good undergrad, but the schools seemed pretty similar and I got a sense I could be happy at either.

Wayne:
Pros-
In-state tuition
Near my significant other (though he'll be applying over the next cycle and doesn't want to go here, so...)
Cons-
Huge class size
My undergrad is a feeder for this school (no change in people/diversity)
Didn't get good vibes from the students
Students don't really match for residencies in any place I am interested in staying/going
Internal ranking

FIU:
Pros-
Tiny class size (80)
Relationship with Miami Children's (I want to go into Peds)
New med school so they are really trying/paying attention to each student
Weather/location
Has my heart (something to do with first interview/first acceptance?)
Great Community
Students are VERY happy
Cons-
New/untested/no match list
Expensive for a new, OOS state school

Tufts:
Pros-
Medium class size
Boston location
Good clinical reputation
Match pretty well
Sherwood Student Run Clinic
Cons-
Kind of a small fish in the big Harvard pond
In Chinatown
Expensive tuition and location

Jeff:
Pros-
Philly location (Center City)
Good clinical reputation from what I can tell
Very nice people that I really liked/got along with
Penn is far enough away that it doesn't seem to overshadow it/hospital gets plenty of the "good, interesting cases"
Cons-
So-so match in comparison to Tufts (correct me if I'm wrong)
Large class size
Not very good financial aid (though I haven't got my package yet, this is just what I've heard)
Large class size

I know ultimately it is my decision/more of where I'll be happy but I think I could be happy at the very least at Tufts, Jeff, and FIU and do well from all three. The only reason Wayne is still around is because of in-state tuition. Any input would be greatly appreciated!

 

[anfleisch]

Seems to me like your classic location based decision. Which city do you want to be in?

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

Have you sat down and figured out what you'd pay at these places? Detroit is a cheap place to live and you'd pay about $32,000 per year for tuition and health insurance. Your total annual cost would be about $50,000 including living expenses. If you have to borrow it all you'd pay about $22,500 per year for the next 30 years.

Boston, Chicago and Miami are much more expensive and not appreciably safer than Detroit. The tuition at Tufts is $56,200. The tuition at Rush is $46,275 and the tuition for non-residents at FIU is 62,200.

If you go to FIU you'll be paying $41,000 for the next 30 years. The annual nut after Rush would be $33,000 and after Tufts it would be $40,500. How are you going to pay that on a pediatrician's salary?

Rush and Tufts aren't rated much higher than Wayne. Furthermore you might have a shot at a peds residency at Michigan if you do an audition there.

Finally you'd have a support group to help you along at Wayne.

Congrats on getting the four acceptances. Great job.

 

[Nessy]

Have you sat down and figured out what you'd pay at these places? Detroit is a cheap place to live and you'd pay about $32,000 per year for tuition and health insurance. Your total annual cost would be about $50,000 including living expenses. If you have to borrow it all you'd pay about $22,500 per year for the next 30 years.

Boston, Chicago and Miami are much more expensive and not appreciably safer than Detroit. The tuition at Tufts is $56,200. The tuition at Rush is $46,275 and the tuition for non-residents at FIU is 62,200.

If you go to FIU you'll be paying $41,000 for the next 30 years. The annual nut after Rush would be $33,000 and after Tufts it would be $40,500. How are you going to pay that on a pediatrician's salary?

Rush and Tufts aren't rated much higher than Wayne. Furthermore you might have a shot at a peds residency at Michigan if you do an audition there.

Finally you'd have a support group to help you along at Wayne.

Congrats on getting the four acceptances. Great job.

.

 

[KelMD]

I would like to point out that I REALLY did not like Wayne, have no desire to stay in the midwest whatsoever (and this is pretty much across the board where Wayne matches for residency), hate the idea of being at basically a commuter school, and overall got the impression I would be depressed there.

That being said, I know I can't COMPLETELY count it out because some people are really happy there and it is in-state. I just got the impression it wasn't for me.

I'm most interested in Tufts vs Jeff and your impressions of going to a new med school (FIU).

 

[Obnoxious Dad]

I read your post too fast. Sorry.

The tuition at Jeff with health insurance is $50,191 and your total living costs would be at least $23,000 per year in Central Philadelphia. Your principal and interest payments over 30 years would be about $36,000 per year. Please also remember that these payments will not be tax deductible. You will have in effect two mortgages for your entire career.

In addition if your significant other is also a Michigan resident, his best chance of getting into medical school will also be at Wayne, MSU or Oakland. Lots of people want to do med school in Boston. How do you know that he can get in there?

Finally all of the schools to which you've been accepted are commuter schools. Jefferson is not in Iowa City or Chapel Hill.

Wayne is like three birds in the hand. Just make sure you have a reliable car for the commute down Woodward.

 

[Nessy]

.

 

[membername3]

OP, your post hits close to home. I'm leaning towards Wayne at this point over a school that is ranked in the top 25 and is a school I'd probably be happier at. But Wayne is substantially cheaper and I'll be surrounded by family and friends, and I think those two factors will ultimately win out in the end. I can understand how hard the decision can be.

To address some of the cons and pros you mentioned regarding Wayne:

Cons

-internal ranking: every school ranks their students, some just don't do it during the first two years. Wayne does. Wayne is H/P/F, not as ideal as P/F but could be worse. Pre-clinical grades are of little importance anyways. Also, I've heard at Wayne that your clinical years are weighted much higher in terms of determining your final class rank, making the ranking issue during the first two years more of a moot point.

-class size: Not sure why the large class size really matters. You say your undergrad (Michigan?) is a feeder for this school and you're worried about the lack of new people, so the large class size should solve that issue for you (because according to their website, over 200 people come from schools other than Michigan).

-commuter campus: doesn't really bother me, but I could see why some people might dislike this. I actually like the fact that you can stream lectures from home and aren't obligated to be there all the time. Plus the commute from Royal Oak where a lot of students live is only 15 minutes.

-Vibes from students: med school is going to be tough wherever you go. Maybe you didn't get good vibes because they had an exam coming up or something.

-match list: it's how well you perform in school, not how well the school is ranked, that is ultimately going to determine where you end up for residency. A lot of the students on that list might be staying in Michigan not because they have to but because they want to due to families, established social networks, etc. Also, Peds isn't very competitive, and if you do well you shouldn't have much trouble matching outside the midwest. Also read that 94% of Wayne students matched into one of their top 3 choices this year, that's pretty damn impressive if true.

Pros

in-state tuition: this pro should outweigh all the cons. med school is 4 years of your life. All the extra debt you take on by going out of state will affect your personal and financial decisions for much longer than 4 years. Personally, it eases my mind that I'll probably come out with less debt than the national average for a med school graduate.

Finally, I know that Wayne isn't the most prestigious school, but neither are your other choices to be honest. Good luck with your decision.

 

[KelMD]

Wow. I'm almost wishing I didn't even include Wayne as an option in this. YES, Wayne is cheap. Yes, peds isn't THAT competitive, however, I might want to do OB-GYN, so... Also, I def want to do Peds Hem/Onc if I go the peds route which is quite competitive, so a good residency is necessary to get the appropriate fellowship. Also, I cannot express enough how much I do not want to get stuck in the midwest for residency (even if it was at Michigan or UChicago).

You would think since I came from Umich the class size wouldn't scare me. This is honestly one of the things I loathed about umich. I really felt like just a number and this is how many of the students seemed to convey themselves at Wayne, and since they came from umich and didn't mind it in undergrad, it probably didn't make much of a difference to them in medical school. For me, I ABSOLUTELY know this will. I am one of a small minority who was very underwhelmed by umich undergrad and the people who seem to really like umich also seem to be the people who like Wayne. My interactions with Wayne have seemed like they don't care whether or not I go there, while Tufts, Jeff and FIU have all made me feel like I matter to them.

I honestly think the only way I would end up at Wayne would be if I were to get a full ride which is not going to happen... Call me crazy but the extra $80 K + interest is worth it to me. I have lived in the midwest my entire life, have always strongly disliked it, and do not want to get stuck here for 8+ more years (I'm not just looking at four years of med school here. Most match here for residency as well). Since I am putting it all out there, my mom has a long history of depression and I can tell I have those tendencies too. My performance declines significantly when I am unhappy, which will end up affecting where I go for residency.

As far as Tufts and Jeff being commuter schools, both have dorms for first years if they want them, and most first years live very near campus if they don't live in the dorms. To me this does not equal a commuter school at all. However, FIU is but the class is so small that you get a good sense of community and FIU isn't in the most interesting area so living near Brickell would be better anyways. I think all three of these schools have a good sense of community, even though Jeff is so big.

As far as whether or not my boyfriend can get into a school in Boston, firstly he's smarter than me and will probably end up with a 38+. Secondly, even if he doesn't get in to a Boston school, NYC isn't woefully far and his dad is a UConn alum. If I ended up in Philly, it has three other schools plus NYC, Baltimore, and D.C. all have many schools with various ranges of competitiveness and are very close by. That gives him many more options to choose from/have a chance at, rather than him being stuck with simply Michigan and he has already expressed that he definitely does NOT want to go to Wayne. Even if he ended up in Ohio or Chicago, that means a plane not a train which would get expensive VERY quickly, and would not be in any sort of financial aid budget last time I checked.

Also, though my parents remain in Michigan, my sister who I am very close to and is my only sibling lives in Baltimore with her husband. My boyfriend's parents live in Boston (though he will have Michigan residency... long story).

So again, Jeff vs Tufts vs FIU only please! Sorry for bringing Wayne up and I don't mean to bash it because I know it is a great choice for many, it's just not for me. Perhaps typing out my reasons did help me decide that for sure though!

Nessy: Thanks for the input on Jeff residency. Good to know they didn't like it, since Jeff seemed to tout their clinical skills training.

 

[membername3]

Wow. I'm almost wishing I didn't even include Wayne as an option in this. YES, Wayne is cheap. Yes, peds isn't THAT competitive, however, I might want to do OB-GYN, so... Also, I def want to do Peds Hem/Onc if I go the peds route which is quite competitive, so a good residency is necessary to get the appropriate fellowship. Also, I cannot express enough how much I do not want to get stuck in the midwest for residency (even if it was at Michigan or UChicago).

You would think since I came from Umich the class size wouldn't scare me. This is honestly one of the things I loathed about umich. I really felt like just a number and this is how many of the students seemed to convey themselves at Wayne, and since they came from umich and didn't mind it in undergrad, it probably didn't make much of a difference to them in medical school. For me, I ABSOLUTELY know this will. I am one of a small minority who was very underwhelmed by umich undergrad and the people who seem to really like umich also seem to be the people who like Wayne. My interactions with Wayne have seemed like they don't care whether or not I go there, while Tufts, Jeff and FIU have all made me feel like I matter to them.

I honestly think the only way I would end up at Wayne would be if I were to get a full ride which is not going to happen... Call me crazy but the extra $80 K + interest is worth it to me. I have lived in the midwest my entire life, have always strongly disliked it, and do not want to get stuck here for 8+ more years (I'm not just looking at four years of med school here. Most match here for residency as well). Since I am putting it all out there, my mom has a long history of depression and I can tell I have those tendencies too. My performance declines significantly when I am unhappy, which will end up affecting where I go for residency.

As far as Tufts and Jeff being commuter schools, both have dorms for first years if they want them, and most first years live very near campus if they don't live in the dorms. To me this does not equal a commuter school at all. However, FIU is but the class is so small that you get a good sense of community and FIU isn't in the most interesting area so living near Brickell would be better anyways. I think all three of these schools have a good sense of community, even though Jeff is so big.

As far as whether or not my boyfriend can get into a school in Boston, firstly he's smarter than me and will probably end up with a 38+. Secondly, even if he doesn't get in to a Boston school, NYC isn't woefully far and his dad is a UConn alum. If I ended up in Philly, it has three other schools plus NYC, Baltimore, and D.C. all have many schools with various ranges of competitiveness and are very close by. That gives him many more options to choose from/have a chance at, rather than him being stuck with simply Michigan and he has already expressed that he definitely does NOT want to go to Wayne. Even if he ended up in Ohio or Chicago, that means a plane not a train which would get expensive VERY quickly, and would not be in any sort of financial aid budget last time I checked.

Also, though my parents remain in Michigan, my sister who I am very close to and is my only sibling lives in Baltimore with her husband. My boyfriend's parents live in Boston (though he will have Michigan residency... long story).

So again, Jeff vs Tufts vs FIU only please! Sorry for bringing Wayne up and I don't mean to bash it because I know it is a great choice for many, it's just not for me. Perhaps typing out my reasons did help me decide that for sure though!

Nessy: Thanks for the input on Jeff residency. Good to know they didn't like it, since Jeff seemed to tout their clinical skills training.

In that case, I'd probably choose Jeff if I were in your shoes. I think it's a bit cheaper than Tufts, and it's in a really great part of Philly.

 

[sedaniel]

Wow. I'm almost wishing I didn't even include Wayne as an option in this. YES, Wayne is cheap. Yes, peds isn't THAT competitive, however, I might want to do OB-GYN, so... Also, I def want to do Peds Hem/Onc if I go the peds route which is quite competitive, so a good residency is necessary to get the appropriate fellowship. Also, I cannot express enough how much I do not want to get stuck in the midwest for residency (even if it was at Michigan or UChicago).

You would think since I came from Umich the class size wouldn't scare me. This is honestly one of the things I loathed about umich. I really felt like just a number and this is how many of the students seemed to convey themselves at Wayne, and since they came from umich and didn't mind it in undergrad, it probably didn't make much of a difference to them in medical school. For me, I ABSOLUTELY know this will. I am one of a small minority who was very underwhelmed by umich undergrad and the people who seem to really like umich also seem to be the people who like Wayne. My interactions with Wayne have seemed like they don't care whether or not I go there, while Tufts, Jeff and FIU have all made me feel like I matter to them.

I honestly think the only way I would end up at Wayne would be if I were to get a full ride which is not going to happen... Call me crazy but the extra $80 K + interest is worth it to me. I have lived in the midwest my entire life, have always strongly disliked it, and do not want to get stuck here for 8+ more years (I'm not just looking at four years of med school here. Most match here for residency as well). Since I am putting it all out there, my mom has a long history of depression and I can tell I have those tendencies too. My performance declines significantly when I am unhappy, which will end up affecting where I go for residency.

As far as Tufts and Jeff being commuter schools, both have dorms for first years if they want them, and most first years live very near campus if they don't live in the dorms. To me this does not equal a commuter school at all. However, FIU is but the class is so small that you get a good sense of community and FIU isn't in the most interesting area so living near Brickell would be better anyways. I think all three of these schools have a good sense of community, even though Jeff is so big.

As far as whether or not my boyfriend can get into a school in Boston, firstly he's smarter than me and will probably end up with a 38+. Secondly, even if he doesn't get in to a Boston school, NYC isn't woefully far and his dad is a UConn alum. If I ended up in Philly, it has three other schools plus NYC, Baltimore, and D.C. all have many schools with various ranges of competitiveness and are very close by. That gives him many more options to choose from/have a chance at, rather than him being stuck with simply Michigan and he has already expressed that he definitely does NOT want to go to Wayne. Even if he ended up in Ohio or Chicago, that means a plane not a train which would get expensive VERY quickly, and would not be in any sort of financial aid budget last time I checked.

Also, though my parents remain in Michigan, my sister who I am very close to and is my only sibling lives in Baltimore with her husband. My boyfriend's parents live in Boston (though he will have Michigan residency... long story).

So again, Jeff vs Tufts vs FIU only please! Sorry for bringing Wayne up and I don't mean to bash it because I know it is a great choice for many, it's just not for me. Perhaps typing out my reasons did help me decide that for sure though!

Nessy: Thanks for the input on Jeff residency. Good to know they didn't like it, since Jeff seemed to tout their clinical skills training.

Don't go to Wayne. Wayne wants people who are going to stay in the area, and you are obviously very adverse to that idea so you wouldn't be happy here, I'd guess (although having family close by and less loans are two huge factors for me, so if you want my advice I would say to really take those factors into account. You might not care now, but down the road when you have way more loans to pay back, you might care).

Just as a side note, "it's Detroit" is not really a valid reason anymore as a "con" for going to Wayne. Wayne is in Midtown firstly, which is way nicer and safer than some of the sketchy areas of the city. You also have bad areas in any city (hello south side Chicago?) and if you know where you shouldn't be, it's no big deal. Also there is a huge movement to revive Detroit, which you'll see by the amount of people who are moving down here who are around our age, so it's not at all a bad place to be: plenty of things to do, places to go, restaurants/bars to eat/drink at, etc. I'm incredibly happy with my decision to move down here, but its upsetting to see so many people clinging to an old stereotype of the city.

 

[DrCox]

Have you sat down and figured out what you'd pay at these places? Detroit is a cheap place to live and you'd pay about $32,000 per year for tuition and health insurance. Your total annual cost would be about $50,000 including living expenses. If you have to borrow it all you'd pay about $22,500 per year for the next 30 years.

Boston, Chicago and Miami are much more expensive and not appreciably safer than Detroit. The tuition at Tufts is $56,200. The tuition at Rush is $46,275 and the tuition for non-residents at FIU is 62,200.

If you go to FIU you'll be paying $41,000 for the next 30 years. The annual nut after Rush would be $33,000 and after Tufts it would be $40,500. How are you going to pay that on a pediatrician's salary?

Rush and Tufts aren't rated much higher than Wayne. Furthermore you might have a shot at a peds residency at Michigan if you do an audition there.

Finally you'd have a support group to help you along at Wayne.

Congrats on getting the four acceptances. Great job.

Not necessarily. As someone facing ~$80,000 COA for the next four years, I've been doing some research into loan forgiveness options. The most promising, in my opinion, is the public service loan forgiveness option, in which loans are forgiven after 10 years of working in the public sector (which, according to my financial aid talk at NYMC, includes residency years). https://www.aamc.org/services/first/first_factsheets/112344/public_service_loan_forgiveness.html
Does anyone have any more details/experience with this option?

Also, I have to agree that location is a HUGE factor in happiness. I'm giving up a school that was $10,000 less per year in order to go somewhere warm. As someone who grew up freezing for 22 years in Boston, that's $40,000 (+interest) well spent.

 

[KelMD]

Not necessarily. As someone facing ~$80,000 COA for the next four years, I've been doing some research into loan forgiveness options. The most promising, in my opinion, is the public service loan forgiveness option, in which loans are forgiven after 10 years of working in the public sector (which, according to my financial aid talk at NYMC, includes residency years). https://www.aamc.org/services/first/first_factsheets/112344/public_service_loan_forgiveness.html
Does anyone have any more details/experience with this option?

Also, I have to agree that location is a HUGE factor in happiness. I'm giving up a school that was $10,000 less per year in order to go somewhere warm. As someone who grew up freezing for 22 years in Boston, that's $40,000 (+interest) well spent.

 

[membername3]

Not necessarily. As someone facing ~$80,000 COA for the next four years, I've been doing some research into loan forgiveness options. The most promising, in my opinion, is the public service loan forgiveness option, in which loans are forgiven after 10 years of working in the public sector (which, according to my financial aid talk at NYMC, includes residency years). https://www.aamc.org/services/first/first_factsheets/112344/public_service_loan_forgiveness.html
Does anyone have any more details/experience with this option?

Also, I have to agree that location is a HUGE factor in happiness. I'm giving up a school that was $10,000 less per year in order to go somewhere warm. As someone who grew up freezing for 22 years in Boston, that's $40,000 (+interest) well spent.

PSLF sounds great. But things that sound too good to be true often are. Loan forgiveness isn't supposed to start until 2018 (law enacted in 2008), and I can almost guarantee that law will be heavily modified by the time you ever get a chance to benefit from it. It would cost the federal government too much money in its current form. The government makes a ton of money off of student loans, money it would prefer to keep.

 

[membername3]

Just as a side note, "it's Detroit" is not really a valid reason anymore as a "con" for going to Wayne. Wayne is in Midtown firstly, which is way nicer and safer than some of the sketchy areas of the city. You also have bad areas in any city (hello south side Chicago?) and if you know where you shouldn't be, it's no big deal. Also there is a huge movement to revive Detroit, which you'll see by the amount of people who are moving down here who are around our age, so it's not at all a bad place to be: plenty of things to do, places to go, restaurants/bars to eat/drink at, etc. I'm incredibly happy with my decision to move down here, but its upsetting to see so many people clinging to an old stereotype of the city.

Definitely refreshing to see someone say something positive about the city of Detroit.

 

[KelMD]

Definitely refreshing to see someone say something positive about the city of Detroit.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKL254Y_jtc[/YOUTUBE]

It has its charm, even though Center City Philly, Boston, and Miami all win by leaps and bounds.

 

[membername3]

[YOUTUBE]SKL254Y_jtc[/YOUTUBE]

It has its charm, even though Center City Philly, Boston, and Miami all win by leaps and bounds.

Probably true, but I'd take 80k savings and Detroit over any of those locations. Obviously you wouldn't and that's awesome, it sounds like you'll be happier outside the midwest and I wish you the best of luck.

 

[Nessy]

Go to Miami, if you can afford the whole ticket to do so. Best of luck, and happiness!

 

[eablackwell]

I'll be at FIU, so I'm biased Come be my classmate, heh.

But seriously, if your boyfriend being close next year is a big issue Jeff is likely the best choice. As someone else mentioned, there are a lot of schools of various difficulties in the area, so probably the best chance of you guys actually being in the same city. On the other hand, I'm not a big Philly fan. I do love the Boston area though, but then again I'm not you.

Tough call. I like snow, but not enough to live somewhere that sees a lot of it, plus I'm a Floridian so Florida was a no-brainer for me, not to mention the staff at FIU made me feel very at home.

Good luck choosing! And congrats on getting in so many places!

 

[RebeccaBlack]

OP... Tufts is certainly a commuter school. There are NO DORMS there. There is one residence for first years that is first come first serve and holds about 25 residents out of over 200 first years. So if you come to Tufts, you will be living "off campus" if there is such a thing as the Tuft Med campus. Its more like the Tufts Med road if you ask me haha.

 

[RebeccaBlack]

Also, hopefully you have relinquished wayne since you don't like it at all. I had 3 acceptances (relinquished one already) but would take my state school over them.. still waiting on my state school.. hoping people like you holding acceptances and want to move away toss em over to me.

 

[koennen]

I have not applied to any of the schools that you have ...

But that isn't stopping you from offering opinions.

Oh, wait, there's this ...

I have family contacts (2) who have done residency training at Jeff. and despised the experience. Obviously, that is not med school, but they were seriously unimpressed with the hospital, the training, the attitude (snooty in a silly way), the whole picture.

Wow. N=2 sample size. Pretty strong evidence ya got there. She's applying to med school, not residency. There are many reasons why someone may be unhappy with their residency program. Since the OP isn't soliciting opinions on Jefferson's residency programs, I will not bother enumerating the possibilities. We'll save that debate for when the OP wants opinions on Jefferson's residency programs. If Jefferson's residency program in the OP's desired specialty is not particularly strong - which she'll know after being here for four years - she'll apply elsewhere.

Snooty?? Nothing could be further from the truth. Your "family contact's" experiences run counter to the experience of 99% of the people who interview at Jeff and 100% of the people who attend school and work here. Are you sure your "family contacts" didn't do their residencies at Penn?

Plus, Philly can be very dangerous, sometimes unfriendly, expensive, and has HORRIBLE traffic.

Well, ANY big city, including Boston, can be "very dangerous" if you are in the wrong part of the city at the wrong time of day. However, Jefferson is located in probably the nicest, and safest, part of center city Philly. One can feel reasonably safe at any time of day or night in the area around Jeff.

Expensive?? Compared to Boston?? You apparently don't know much about the comparative cost of living in Boston and Philadelphia. Philadelphia is downright affordable compared to Boston.

Horrible traffic? No worse than any other big city. But, again, irrelevant. Most students either live on campus or within walking distance of campus. Traffic is not an issue.

I don't know anything about Tufts ...

But that doesn't stop you from recommending it. Oh, snap, I forgot. Boston is a "cool city."

To the OP - disregard match lists as a factor in your decision. Match lists are pretty much useless to a pre-med. They provide you with virtually no information that is useful or relevant to your decision. There are numerous threads on SDN that will explain why that is the case, so I won't rehash that here.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[Nessy]

.

 

[koennen]

I expected this kind of response from my input. I'm just trying to help the OP because they asked for opinions and thoughts. The OP can take it for what it is worth, which may be valuable input or not.
I've been around the block and am quite familiar with Philly, and Jefferson. I love Boston, but don't know much about Tufts, and never pretended to have this information.
Your aggressive response, IMHO, is precisely why I have not even applied to any school in Philly. In my experiences, and those of family contacts, this Philly aggressiveness (which exists at Jeff) happens all the time and is really unsettling and counter productive to a happy disposition. Have a great life.

Sorry you found my response to be "aggressive." I love it when people resort to pejorative labels as a substitute for arguing facts or engaging in a reasoned discussion or debate. I suppose the attempt to marginalize by name calling is intellectually less challenging than actually arguing the merits of an issue.

I call BS when I hear it. You recommend a school that, by your own admission, you know nothing about. (Do you really think the OP is going to find that helpful?) You diss another school based on untruths about the city in which it is located and irrelevant, anecdotal, hearsay related to its affiliated hospital. Seriously???

And apparently not only am I "aggressive," but so is Jefferson, the other four medical schools in Philadelphia, and, in fact, the entire city. So aggressive that you won't even apply to any of the five medical schools in Philadelphia. Do I have that right? Umm ... I think that says more about your mental state than mine.

You try to have a great life. I suspect it's going to be difficult.

 

[sloan7]

It sort of sounds to me like you have already answered your question. As long as you believe that you can handle the financial burden, then I think you should go with your gut, and go to Florida International. I agree that the location is fantastic, and I bet, if you wanted to, you could even live on the beach !!! In terms of the tuition, is there any chance of a scholarship from the university? If not, you should consider looking at outside scholarships. There are literally thousands of small awards out there, but apparently you can recycle a lot of your application essays.

 

[Sunshine1025]

I agree with sedaniel. If you don't want to be in Detroit, don't come to Wayne. I honestly don't think four years outside of Detroit is worth as much as it will cost you elsewhere, but you seem like you'd be miserable in Detroit. I was going to go elsewhere for med school that would cost me twice as much but didn't find it worth it, and in the end I'm really enjoying the suburb of Detroit I'm living in. But - if your mind is already made up, don't go here.

Also - I'm really sorry you got a bad taste of the students. Do you know who your tour guides were? If so, PM me. With so many people in the class you get a little taste of everyone and you may have just been unlucky that day. If you have any specific questions regarding Wayne, feel free to ask. Otherwise, best of luck in choosing one of your other schools.

On a side note: it is highly likely your boyfriend won't get into the same schools you got into since you are both out of state. If you are thinking you'll get to be closer by not going to Wayne, I'd double think that just because as you know out of state schools are a lot harder to get into than in state schools. Just a thought

 

[KelMD]

For Wayne, I haven't relinquished my acceptance yet because I haven't gotten financial aid packages from Tufts or Jeff yet and Wayne and FIU haven't reviewed my applications for institutional/scholarship aid yet. Hopefully I'll get this information within the next week, but I cannot rule out Wayne until I get that information. I would like to be able to give my spot up for other people and plan on doing so as long as/as soon as financial aid works out.

As far as my boyfriend being able to get into a state school Sunshine, I had much better luck getting interviews OOS (I applied to more OOS but they were on the whole more competitive programs in the first place). I got an interview only at Wayne which to me seemed like the worst fit for me of all three state schools (I did not apply to Oakland because I didn't want to go to med school in the suburbs). For the OOS schools, each school I interviewed at I felt I could be very happy and it would be a great fit for me.

SOME of the reasons I am considering Tufts and Jeff over FIU (in spite of the fact that I love it) are that:
a. they are established programs with curriculums that have proven to prepare their students well for the boards
b. they are on the east coast where I always assumed I would go to med school
c. FIU really only has relationships with schools in Florida and there doesn't seem to be too much opportunity to leave S. Florida for 4th year clerkships, so my best chance of residency, for better or worse, would be in S. Florida. I am not 100% sure how I feel about that (mixed feelings)
c. FIU uses pro-sections while Tufts and Jeff have full cadavers. I've been schooled on the +'s vs -'s of this and I am quite certain I would rather have cadavers.
d. I really felt like I could love Tufts and Jeff and I loved their locations. Yes people live kind of far away for Tufts, but no where near as far as it feels Wayne kids live. They live all over the sprawling Detroit suburbs, even if many live in Royal Oak which is admittedly pretty close. If I went to Wayne I'd actually probably want to live downtown, but I am slightly scared of this because I am a very small girl. Jeff is in the BEST area of Philly IMO and Boston is just relatively safe overall. I always pictured myself in Boston, but I really found I liked Philly when I was there. So to me, the locations of Jeff and Tufts are tied.
e. PRICE tag: FIU is the least established with the most expensive price. I think the worst part too would be that in-staters would be paying SO MUCH less.

I guess I'd like to hear more about the programs (wish I could have gone to the second looks today, but I'm graduating this weekend and was SO exhausted from hectic traveling)

 

[Nessy]

.

 

[Thom1986]

Umm ... I think that says more about your mental state than mine.
You try to have a great life. I suspect it's going to be difficult.

Hey! Making Jeff look good again, are we?

To the OP- this guys sucks, all the time. I selected another school over Jefferson for my own reasons, but don't let this person's seemingly endless online anger rants deter you. There are plenty of healthy, happy people there.

 

[smq123]

I expected this kind of response from my input. I'm just trying to help the OP because they asked for opinions and thoughts. The OP can take it for what it is worth, which may be valuable input or not.
I've been around the block and am quite familiar with Philly, and Jefferson. I love Boston, but don't know much about Tufts, and never pretended to have this information.
Your aggressive response, IMHO, is precisely why I have not even applied to any school in Philly. In my experiences, and those of family contacts, this Philly aggressiveness (which exists at Jeff) happens all the time and is really unsettling and counter productive to a happy disposition. Have a great life.

Wow, great evidence of Philly anger.

A couple of points.

I have read Koennen's other posts, and they tend to be fairly aggressive and intense. However, in this case, I don't blame Koennen for the intensity of his response. It IS rather insulting to hear someone try to dissuade another person from attending your alma mater, based on 2 people's experiences as a resident (which is vastly different from your experience as a med student, by the way).

Jefferson is my alma mater, so I am also biased, but I had a lovely experience there. I hated the first two years of med school (I doubt I would have enjoyed it anywhere; theoretical learning, lots of studying, and no daily "hands-on" stuff is just not for me. I'm a do-er.), but I had excellent mentors and friends who helped keep me sane. My faculty advisor was helpful and encouraging (I actually ran into him in the grocery store the other day!), and my student dean was gentle and kind when I needed her to be.

The residents that I worked with at the hospital on my rotations were great role models, and how I aspire to be daily as a current resident. They made me laugh on a daily basis, even while on call. And the rotation experiences at Jefferson actually prepared me well for intern year. You'll never lose that fear that you have during your first month as an intern, but I was well accustomed to what an intern's role is, and slipped into that role fairly easily.

Not all Philadelphians are angry or aggressive. It's unfair to characterize us as that, based on a stereotype and ONE internet poster. Life moves at a fast pace in Philadelphia and many people are impatient, but this is true of almost all East Coast cities, including Baltimore, NYC, Washington, and Boston. There are many nice people in Philly.

Philly is no more dangerous than any other large urban area, and the traffic is actually fairly innocuous, particularly compared to DC and NYC. The fact that the city is a well organized grid helps.

Many of my classmates chose to stay at Jefferson for their residency training. Those that did not were frequently torn between wanting to stay at Jefferson, but needing to be in another geographic area (i.e. go back to California, go back to Chicago, go to NYC, etc.)

I would totally choose Jefferson for med school again. Most of the residents that I worked with were quite happy. I would not discount Jefferson based on a second hand account of two people disliking their residency there; residency in general is a fairly difficult time in a person's life, and it's tough to say whether Jefferson made them miserable, or whether they would have been miserable at another program as well.

 

[Potatoman1800]

OP... Tufts is certainly a commuter school. There are NO DORMS there. There is one residence for first years that is first come first serve and holds about 25 residents out of over 200 first years. So if you come to Tufts, you will be living "off campus" if there is such a thing as the Tuft Med campus. Its more like the Tufts Med road if you ask me haha.

So much misinformation here.

 

[Eponymous]

Hey! Making Jeff look good again, are we?

To the OP- this guys sucks, all the time. I selected another school over Jefferson for my own reasons, but don't let this person's seemingly endless online anger rants deter you. There are plenty of healthy, happy people there.

Yes, can we give Jeff its proper due, please?

I can't speak for the other schools on your list, but I will say that Jefferson, slowly but surely, won me over. I was turned off on my interview day by the class size and by an irritatingly cheerleader-esque student leader, but I went back to Second Look and revised my misconceptions. I was extremely impressed with the maturity and accomplishments of everyone I met at the evening reception preceding the information day (food and open bar were amazing). The median age was a bit older than the other school I'm looking at (~24), which was nice because I am non-trad as well. The deans addressed my major concern with class size: despite having a class of 260, Jefferson never has teams of more than 3 working together in a rotation. They are able to do this because Jeff has a very large number of affiliated hospitals. They also have a large number of community outreach programs like Jeff HOPE - volunteering and clinical experience opportunities are big.

Regarding research, which has a large influence on med school rankings and thus pushes Jeff lower than I think it deserves to be, if you are interested in bench research, it may not be the best place for you unless you are interested in one of their specialty areas (cardio, opthal, etc.). However, if you are interested in translational clinical research or public health, it is an excellent place to be and (I think someone mentioned College Within the College above -you can do it like a mini-masters with no extra $ or time involved).

However, one of my biggest reasons for choosing Jeff is the people I met there. Even though I didn't initially fall in love with it on my interview day, I admitted then and stand by the statement now that Jeff students are the happiest I've met - and I interviewed at some very prestigious places.

 

[Lokhtar]

Jeff's center city is completely safe too - I don't know what someone was talking about. Traffic will be bad, but this is an east coast city, NOT detroit. There is a SEPTA station like one block from the school - take the EL to most places in the city you want to go, or take trains to NY, DC, AC, etc. Traffic sucks during primetime but since you don't need a car, I don't see why that's an issue. But also, traffic is nowhere near as bad as places like DC or NY, so it depends what your comparison is. Outside of rush hours, it's actually fairly easy.

Fantastic area with great restaurants, bars, nightlife, etc. It's an area with a lot of young professionals so it's a great place to be....if you want a more 'collegy' atmosphere, you can head down to 34th street where Drexel and Penn Campuses are.

I'm not going to badmouth any school but just correcting the misconceptions at Jeff.

Jeff is H/P/F but it's not curve based (90% is honors, regardless of how many or how few students get it, so it's noncompetitive) and I believe your rotations count for 2x your first two years in terms of class rank.


Also, re: class size...both Wayne and Jeff have large class sizes, but you have to ask why you prefer a small size, and whether those concerns are valid in the med school environment. For example, I know at Jeff, during rotations you are rarely in a large group because they have so many hospitals that are affiliated...so unlike some 'smaller' schools who only have their one hospital, you actually get to do more because there are less students with you competing for the same things.