(Potential) National Embargo on Away Rotations

[Frogger27]

There was word on the ortho match sheet that Iowa sent out an email saying they were cancelling aways this year, could be hospital specific though

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[You shall know the Truth]

There was word on the ortho match sheet that Iowa sent out an email saying they were cancelling aways this year, could be hospital specific though

Interesting

 

[cookiegrub]

Again, all of this is hearsay, but the rumor I was hearing prior to Thursday was there was SUPPOSED to be a vote Thursday night regarding a universal decision for away rotations. I'm a bit skeptical now as we did not hear anything yesterday, but, my understanding was it was not looking pretty going into Thursday and the consensus seemed to be that aways would be cancelled this year. Again, take this with a grain of salt, I'm not here to rain on anyone's parade or start anything but just sharing with you what I've heard through the grapevine. Trust me, I wish it wasn't the case as I am also in deep **** without aways.

starting to wonder...what if they are getting together to discuss new requirements from students before joining rotations (ie COVID preparedness training from our school or something)? I mean, aren't new residents flying from all over the country to start working anyways...so why would they cancel rotations for medical students who will be coming after them?

 

[Neopolymath]

starting to wonder...what if they are getting together to discuss new requirements from students before joining rotations (ie COVID preparedness training from our school or something)? I mean, aren't new residents flying from all over the country to start working anyways...so why would they cancel rotations for medical students who will be coming after them?

Virtue signaling is unfortunately a big reason for a lot of them I'm sure. Policy making in medical education is just a giant race to the bottom to show everyone else how much they care and whatever.

 

[longhaul3]

starting to wonder...what if they are getting together to discuss new requirements from students before joining rotations (ie COVID preparedness training from our school or something)? I mean, aren't new residents flying from all over the country to start working anyways...so why would they cancel rotations for medical students who will be coming after them?

Virtue signaling is unfortunately a big reason for a lot of them I'm sure. Policy making in medical education is just a giant race to the bottom to show everyone else how much they care and whatever.

I agree with you, but it's also nonsensical to compare incoming pgy-1s moving for residency to med students resuming rotations. Residents are essential workers; med students aren't even workers at all. If there's not an essential reason for people to be flying around, they shouldn't be, and med students are no exception, in my view.

Incoming residents are also starting new jobs at one(ish) site. Having med students hop around the country—hospital to hospital, no less—for a few weeks at a time is a different story and an unnecessary risk.

 

[Neopolymath]

I agree with you, but it's also nonsensical to compare incoming pgy-1s moving for residency to med students resuming rotations. Residents are essential workers; med students aren't even workers at all. If there's not an essential reason for people to be flying around, they shouldn't be, and med students are no exception, in my view.

Incoming residents are also starting new jobs at one(ish) site. Having med students hop around the country—hospital to hospital, no less—for a few weeks at a time is a different story and an unnecessary risk.

I gotta say that I don't disagree with you. I don't think it's the same situation for residents and students and I also don't think students should be on rotations right now.

That said, hospitals in my area are going back to about 70% or more surgical capacity in a week so. We will see how the second wave works but I'm thinking this talk (in absolutes) about freaking September-December is so stupid when people are about to be doing electives all around me.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

I gotta say that I don't disagree with you. I don't think it's the same situation for residents and students and I also don't think students should be on rotations right now.

That said, hospitals in my area are going back to about 70% or more surgical capacity in a week so. We will see how the second wave works but I'm thinking this talk (in absolutes) about freaking September-December is so stupid when people are about to be doing electives all around me.

Thumbs up, sound like Texas!

 

[deleted778326]

Virtue signaling is unfortunately a big reason for a lot of them I'm sure. Policy making in medical education is just a giant race to the bottom to show everyone else how much they care and whatever.

+1

 

[deleted778326]

There was word on the ortho match sheet that Iowa sent out an email saying they were cancelling aways this year, could be hospital specific though

I heard similar with urology and also heard there’s a distinct chance that residency interviews would be conducted virtually this year. Personally, I had been confirmed for one specific away (in psych), not affiliated with any medical school, that made no mention of cancellation. The other two insinuated cancellation was indeed possible if not likely; both NE schools, med school affiliated. It is all just an exercise in capriciousness at this point. My med school gave a preliminary target just a week and a half ago of returning to rotations in Mid May. Now, this week, rumblings of possibly not until July now. All valid points I am hearing in this thread. At this point each new day brings something new to contemplate.

 

[Goro]

isn't there 343 other threads on this topics. why don't we get back on track to what is important.


what board games are you guys playing

Operation Nordwind right now, thinking about the old SPI Leningrad next.

 

[Grannywang]

VSAS now suspended until May 11th

 

[Prehealth1011]

VSAS now suspended until May 11th

Passion for less competitive backup speciality intensifies...

 

[MakeLifeHappen13]

I think they kick the can down the road another 2-4 weeks and then cancel aways at some point in early May.

How the heck did you know? LOL

 

[TedCruz]

How the heck did you know? LOL

Galaxy brain. But really, it's easy to predict because it's really the only reasonable course of action at this point.

 

[peachrings]

What I don't understand is why they won't come out and make a definitive statement ASAP. That way, people can take a real look at their situation and formulate backup plans as necessary.

 

[TedCruz]

What I don't understand is why they won't come out and make a definitive statement ASAP. That way, people can take a real look at their situation and formulate backup plans as necessary.

My guess is that there is a large majority of Deans/PDs on board with cancelling, but some are holding out. They want it to be nationwide to level the playing field. Just my guess.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Reading the email I kinda wonder if they will actually allow aways but with some serious constraints, like will only allow auditions at sites within a 50 mile radius of your school or say you can only do 1 away in addition to a home sub-I (in addition to geographic constraints).

 

[Frogger27]

Reading the email I kinda wonder if they will actually allow aways but with some serious constraints, like will only allow auditions at sites within a 50 mile radius of your school or say you can only do 1 away in addition to a home sub-I (in addition to geographic constraints).

naaaaah makes too much sense

 

[peachrings]

I think they should have some sort of provision to help students with no home program and DOs who are not affiliated with a home hospital.

 

[Groy]

Our dean said that after communicating with others around the country, there seems to be only three outcomes possible:

1.) Full cancellation of all aways
2.) Each student only gets one away rotation.
3.) Away rotations will only be canceled for the first two months while institutions better prepare themselves to logistically and legally to accommodate visiting students.

Some believe that the extension of VSAS closure actually bodes well for aways, because there is more negotiating to be done (presumably figuring out ways to make it feasible).

 

[TedCruz]

Our dean said that after communicating with others around the country, there seems to be only three outcomes possible:

1.) Full cancellation of all aways
2.) Each student only gets one away rotation.
3.) Away rotations will only be canceled for the first two months while institutions better prepare themselves to logistically and legally to accommodate visiting students.

Some believe that the extension of VSAS closure actually bodes well for aways, because there is more negotiating to be done (presumably figuring out ways to make it feasible).

what does the first 2 months mean? July and august?

 

[Groy]

what does the first 2 months mean? July and august?

If I understood correctly, yes, I believe that is what he meant.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Reading the email I kinda wonder if they will actually allow aways but with some serious constraints, like will only allow auditions at sites within a 50 mile radius of your school or say you can only do 1 away in addition to a home sub-I (in addition to geographic constraints).

That would be a logical and reasonable solution. I’ve abandoned any hope for such things at this point.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

What I don't understand is why they won't come out and make a definitive statement ASAP. That way, people can take a real look at their situation and formulate backup plans as necessary.

They are trying figure out how to keep your money and not let you think they are horrible

 

[You shall know the Truth]

for surgery subs does anyone think that the demand will be low for the next year or so? I mean a lot of people lost there jobs and ins.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

for surgery subs does anyone think that the demand will be low for the next year or so? I mean a lot of people lost there jobs and ins.

I doubt it. Things will bounce back.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

I doubt it. Things will bounce back.

Is there any data on how quickly things came back after 2008/2009

 

[deleted778326]

My guess is that there is a large majority of Deans/PDs on board with cancelling, but some are holding out. They want it to be nationwide to level the playing field. Just my guess.

I absolutely agree with you on this.

 

[Oligodinero]

We had an update this past Friday. Were told to nothing is certain and anything can happen, and we'd know for sure by 1 week prior to June 1st. So......a hole lotta nada. That being said, I got a letter from the Emergency PD at the new program at Baylor All Saints in Ft. Worth this AM.....apparantly they will not be able to offer any clerkships for the remainder of 2020.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

We had an update this past Friday. Were told to nothing is certain and anything can happen, and we'd know for sure by 1 week prior to June 1st. So......a hole lotta nada. That being said, I got a letter from the Emergency PD at the new program at Baylor All Saints in Ft. Worth this AM.....apparantly they will not be able to offer any clerkships for the remainder of 2020.

That’s stinks, I’m sorry to hear. Do you think the community programs still offer rotations?

 

[getfat]

Anyone hear any updates from their school?

Mostly was just told "hang in there" until june.
I have this bad feeling if isolation measures get lifted then things will move really quick because they want to go back to the normal time line.
So all we can do is just be ready if this type of scenario happens.

 

[Oligodinero]

That’s stinks, I’m sorry to hear. Do you think the community programs still offer rotations?

IF it happens, it'll be really hit and miss. I think a lot will depend upon if the programs are located in high or low incidence areas.

 

[deleted778326]

That’s stinks, I’m sorry to hear. Do you think the community programs still offer rotations?

I think the issue isn't so much if community programs will offer opportunities but rather if your medical school will allow you to do it.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

I think the issue isn't so much if community programs will offer opportunities but rather if your medical school will allow you to do it.

Today are school said they have zero plans to cancel anything as long protection is in place. They endorsed looking for clerkship opportunities outside of VSAS and fully expect to be running on all cylinders come June/July.

 

[boolin_1]

what are people doing for specialties that require aways such as EM or people with low scores shooting for surgical specialties

 

[SurgDoc95]

what are people doing for specialties that require aways such as EM or people with low scores shooting for surgical specialties

Ding ding this is why we're holding out hope we get aways

 

[You shall know the Truth]

what are people doing for specialties that require aways such as EM or people with low scores shooting for surgical specialties

Applying to rotations that are not on vsas

 

[You shall know the Truth]

Ding ding this is why we're holding out hope we get aways

There are a lot of DO rotations that don’t go through vsas

 

[Mass Effect]

IF it happens, it'll be really hit and miss. I think a lot will depend upon if the programs are located in high or low incidence areas.

And whether they're in red states or blue states.

 

[SurgDoc95]

There are a lot of DO rotations that don’t go through vsas

The majority of mine have been set up outside of vsas so I'm not all that concerned about not having access to vsas, but my gut says if vsas shuts down, the historically DO programs outside vsas will as well =(

 

[sunshinefl]

The majority of mine have been set up outside of vsas so I'm not all that concerned about not having access to vsas, but my gut says if vsas shuts down, the historically DO programs outside vsas will as well =(

Yeah DO stuff seems to copy MD stuff, and now they’re all ACGME if the final word comes from them.

 

[deleted778326]

I do have an update today. Again, strictly hearsay. But rumors from an administrator at our school told us "off the record" that the most recent update is that the AAMC is planning to put a moratorium on all sub-i's until at least January at this point. ERAS is likely going to be pushed back a month. Interviews will be held completely virtual and there will be a cap on how many different programs you can apply to. That's the latest I am hearing out of the midwest.

 

[boolin_1]

****

 

[LutGholein]

I do have an update today. Again, strictly hearsay. But rumors from an administrator at our school told us "off the record" that the most recent update is that the AAMC is planning to put a moratorium on all sub-i's until at least January at this point. ERAS is likely going to be pushed back a month. Interviews will be held completely virtual and there will be a cap on how many different programs you can apply to. That's the latest I am hearing out of the midwest.

Interestingly enough, AAPD/COMSEP/AMSPDC just published their peds recommendation, pleading that allopathic applicants only apply to 15 programs. I'm guessing they are anticipating that applicants will shotgun their apps this cycle.

source: You are being redirected...

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

and there will be a cap on how many different programs you can apply to.

This would absolutely screw me over entirely.

 

[boolin_1]

couples matching this year will be a nightmare

 

[popopopop]

Can't see people following that application limit unless it's enforce somehow. If anything, people will panic apply to save their own skin.

 

[You shall know the Truth]

I do have an update today. Again, strictly hearsay. But rumors from an administrator at our school told us "off the record" that the most recent update is that the AAMC is planning to put a moratorium on all sub-i's until at least January at this point. ERAS is likely going to be pushed back a month. Interviews will be held completely virtual and there will be a cap on how many different programs you can apply to. That's the latest I am hearing out of the midwest.

MD or DO school?

 

[Doggeronie]

I do have an update today. Again, strictly hearsay. But rumors from an administrator at our school told us "off the record" that the most recent update is that the AAMC is planning to put a moratorium on all sub-i's until at least January at this point. ERAS is likely going to be pushed back a month. Interviews will be held completely virtual and there will be a cap on how many different programs you can apply to. That's the latest I am hearing out of the midwest.

I hate 2020

 

[deleted778326]

MD or DO school?

MD