(Potential) National Embargo on Away Rotations

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AceTomAce said:
I do have an update today. Again, strictly hearsay. But rumors from an administrator at our school told us "off the record" that the most recent update is that the AAMC is planning to put a moratorium on all sub-i's until at least January at this point. ERAS is likely going to be pushed back a month. Interviews will be held completely virtual and there will be a cap on how many different programs you can apply to. That's the latest I am hearing out of the midwest.
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I hope they tell us soon if they enforce a cap on applications. That's kinda important if you were planning on applying for a reach vs backup specialty
 
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Huggy said:
To reiterate what has been stated from others.

Update from the dean of our medical school and hospital in the southeast:
**These updates are based on national discussions. Supposedly every Monday at 8pm all the deans across the country (at least MD) have a virtual meeting where they discuss this year's cycle and this is what we have been told**
- All interviews will very likely be virtual. Interviews will have to either be 100% in-person or 100% virtual. This ensures that every institution and every specialty has an equal opportunity to represent their institution without certain institutions having a disadvantage for being in hot spots. Also worth taking into consideration that the vast majority of the top schools who probably have the most influence are in hot spots.
- Away rotations will most likely not be happening. She stated that she would be very surprised if they were able to happen this year.
- ERAS will probably be postponed 1-2 months.
- Match day will remain the same.
- Graduation will remain the same.
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+1 from the Midwest almost verbatim.
 
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Huggy said:
To reiterate what has been stated from others.

Update from the dean of our medical school and hospital in the southeast:
**These updates are based on national discussions. Supposedly every Monday at 8pm all the deans across the country (at least MD) have a virtual meeting where they discuss this year's cycle and this is what we have been told**
- All interviews will very likely be virtual. Interviews will have to either be 100% in-person or 100% virtual. This ensures that every institution and every specialty has an equal opportunity to represent their institution without certain institutions having a disadvantage for being in hot spots. Also worth taking into consideration that the vast majority of the top schools who probably have the most influence are in hot spots.
- Away rotations will most likely not be happening. She stated that she would be very surprised if they were able to happen this year.
- ERAS will probably be postponed 1-2 months.
- Match day will remain the same.
- Graduation will remain the same.
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How will this apply to core rotations? A bunch of DO schools send their students across the state and nationally.
 
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popopopop said:
How will this apply to core rotations? A bunch of DO schools send their students across the state and nationally.
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This is my question
- do we stay at our 3rd year site
- can we choose a new core site
- do we do it all online for 4th year
 
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Huggy said:
We did not ask about that information since we are an MD school. I apologize for not having more information.... She said, "all the deans from all the medical schools" were discussing this every Monday at 8pm. I assume that the DO deans are attending these meetings as well and arguing on your behalf. I guess the information that I provided may only pertain to MD institutions with core rotations at home.
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Yeah, meant to be more rhetorical than anything, no need to apologize. So you've said this and like half a dozen other people across sdn and reddit now. Unless ya'll all went to the same school, this might be what's happening :oops:. Can they just Thanos snap away spots in half like Prometric? Seems like the wild wild west and anything goes at this point.
 
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Huggy said:
We did not ask about that information since we are an MD school. I apologize for not having more information.... She said, "all the deans from all the medical schools" were discussing this every Monday at 8pm. I assume that the DO deans are attending these meetings as well and arguing on your behalf. I guess the information that I provided may only pertain to MD institutions with core rotations at home.
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I don’t think DO schools are going to these meetings
 
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You shall know the Truth said:
This is my question
- do we stay at our 3rd year site
- can we choose a new core site
- do we do it all online for 4th year
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Yeah, this is hard. I hope DO schools are in the loop. I would imagine that most leases end during the summer too so people need to decide. Hopefully with more states lessening their shelter rules, we can demonstrate a downtrending of cases and hospitals will be able to handle it.
 
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popopopop said:
Can they just Thanos snap away spots in half like Prometric? Seems like the wild wild west and anything goes at this point.
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The AOA, AACOM, and NBOME are in the committee that is deciding what to do with aways/auditions. Yes they absolutely can make them disappear.
 
popopopop said:
Can't see people following that application limit unless it's enforce somehow. If anything, people will panic apply to save their own skin.
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people in my class are already panicking, saying they are gonna apply to 150+ programs LoLz
 
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are all medical student rotations run by those governing bodies? or is it just VSAS related ones?

I have a non-vsas EM rotation for july but I am curious what happens to that
 
I feel like they have to cap applications if we’re doing virtual interviews. People will do 50+ interviews if they don’t and programs will interview 3x as many applicants.
 
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popopopop said:
Can't see people following that application limit unless it's enforce somehow. If anything, people will panic apply to save their own skin.
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If such a limit is implemented, ERAS will likely stop you from applying to more than 15 programs.

You shall know the Truth said:
Interesting, my school seemed shocked when a student brought up the notion of having auditions cancelled. They believe we are going to pick up right in June
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Red state?
 
popopopop said:
How will this apply to core rotations? A bunch of DO schools send their students across the state and nationally.
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My guess is MS 3s go to your core site and you stay there. MS4s stay at core site for electives.
 
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This is going to be the ****show of all ****shows.
 
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AnatomyGrey12 said:
The AOA, AACOM, and NBOME are in the committee that is deciding what to do with aways/auditions. Yes they absolutely can make them disappear.
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Except it doesn't really matter what they think if hospitals don't take students. And if there's a national rule against MD aways, you better believe no hospital in their right mind is going to take DOs.
 
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boolin_1 said:
are all medical student rotations run by those governing bodies? or is it just VSAS related ones?

I have a non-vsas EM rotation for july but I am curious what happens to that
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Any place that has a residency will have to adhere to what the ACGME wants. Plain and simple.

With your school's blessing, you're welcome to rotate at Podunk Community Hospital that has no residencies if they allow, but that won't do you any good.
 
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Ho0v-man said:
I feel like they have to cap applications if we’re doing virtual interviews. People will do 50+ interviews if they don’t and programs will interview 3x as many applicants.
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Why don’t they just cap interviews? Lol. Application limits are going to be terrible. There will be some people who get 12 interviews and many others who get 1-2.
 
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Mass Effect said:
Any place that has a residency will have to adhere to what the ACGME wants. Plain and simple.

With your school's blessing, you're welcome to rotate at Podunk Community Hospital that has no residencies if they allow, but that won't do you any good.
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It would be better than sitting on my bottom at home
 
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ace_inhibitor111 said:
Why don’t they just cap interviews? Lol. Application limits are going to be terrible. There will be some people who get 12 interviews and quite a few who get 1-2.
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What happens if you get interview invites that you really want later in the cycle? I like the idea in principle though
 
Chibucks15 said:
What happens if you get interview invites that you really want later in the cycle? I like the idea in principle though
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I would assume you should save a couple slots and not max out all your interviews in the first month. Anyway if you max out all your interviews you’re in a better position than most anyway.
 
ace_inhibitor111 said:
Why don’t they just cap interviews? Lol. Application limits are going to be terrible. There will be some people who get 12 interviews and many others who get 1-2.
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Because it’s easier to control that. Is there an official program for monitoring how many interviews we go on? I thought it was just via e-mails.
 
Huggy said:
- All interviews will very likely be virtual. Interviews will have to either be 100% in-person or 100% virtual. This ensures that every institution and every specialty has an equal opportunity to represent their institution without certain institutions having a disadvantage for being in hot spots.
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I don't see how this could be enforced. Medical schools can't tell me what to do. Travel restrictions may make this a reality for all anyway, but I don't see how the AAMC can control program behavior.
 
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Why are all these decisions being made so soon when we still have no idea how the summer/fall/winter are going to look like? I can understand canceling aways at this point since people need to plan and apply. But most interviews don't start until October and can honestly be pushed back even farther for most specialties.

So why cancel all in-person interviews 5 months before it's even an issue? Programs should definitely start planning for having to do virtual interviews, but I don't think they need to pull the plug on this quite so soon.
 
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augeremt said:
Why are all these decisions being made so soon when we still have no idea how the summer/fall/winter are going to look like? I can understand canceling aways at this point since people need to plan and apply. But most interviews don't start until October and can honestly be pushed back even farther for most specialties.

So why cancel all in-person interviews 5 months before it's even an issue? Programs should definitely start planning for having to do virtual interviews, but I don't think they need to pull the plug on this quite so soon.
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Aren't we worried about that second wave? Either way, I'm pretty optimistic since nothing is in stone.
 
NotAProgDirector said:
I don't see how this could be enforced. Medical schools can't tell me what to do. Travel restrictions may make this a reality for all anyway, but I don't see how the AAMC can control program behavior.
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Since this is all hypothetical anyway, what if it's written into next year's NRMP Match agreement that programs certify that they haven't held in-person interviews and applicants certify that they haven't attended any?
 
NotAProgDirector said:
I don't see how this could be enforced. Medical schools can't tell me what to do. Travel restrictions may make this a reality for all anyway, but I don't see how the AAMC can control program behavior.
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What a great reminder of how impotent we are as med students than having PDs flout a potential national guidance to limit in person interviews. If a PD says "**** you, show up", med students are going to fall in line, good conscience be damned.
 
Mass Effect said:
Except it doesn't really matter what they think if hospitals don't take students. And if there's a national rule against MD aways, you better believe no hospital in their right mind is going to take DOs.
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You misunderstood what I said. There is currently a committee to make a decision on visiting student rotations that is made up of all the major organizations, including the AMA, AAMC, ACGME, NBME, NBOME, AACOM, LCME, COCA, AOA, etc. My point was this committee is making the decision as a whole, and the DO orgs are a part of it. So any decision made by the committee will 100% include the DO programs (which are all ACGME now anyway).

You also are greatly underestimating what hospitals are planning regarding aways. I can tell you right now that the majority of places are still planning for away rotations, yes I'm talking major academic systems and not just small community places. It's all over the Reddit residency application spreadsheets, people contacting the places they are scheduled for aways and being told that as of now the system is still planning for them to attend. This is why a centralized decision is being discussed and implemented.


As for the rest of the thread, the more I think about it I'm not 100% against an application cap, provided the number is very reasonable. Like absolutely no lower than 50. Anything lower than that is unreasonable to spring upon applicants who have been planning their residency apps for literally years on end.
 
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boolin_1 said:
couples matching this year will be a nightmare
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In the Peds letter they mentioned couples matching as an exception, so I am praying the same holds true if an application limit gets put in place. Otherwise, I am terrified about what this will mean for my significant other and I
 
Can you imagine agreeing to work for 5+ years with someone who you never met in person ONCE!? This is insanity.
 
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Spectreman said:
Can you imagine agreeing to work for 5+ years with someone who you never met in person ONCE!? This is insanity.
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Or picking up your entire life and family and moving someplace you’ve never been before? Sure for those shooting for large academic centers this isn’t as big of a deal, but for the rest of us planning on community based residencies it’s nuts. Guess I’ll get really good at clicking through google earth street view to see the hospitals and surrounding areas?

Can’t imagine picking a med school without ever visiting the city it’s in/seeing the campus let alone a residency

Sent from my iPhone using SDN
 
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wispyfairy said:
An application cap seems so stupid
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An application cap is a really good idea if they do virtual interviews. In the past, there were financial and logistical limitations that helped keep people from going on more than a reasonable number of interviews.

With virtual interviews there is no reason to not attend as many interviews as you are offered, even if you have little interest in a program.

The thing that would make sense to me is a "per specialty" cap. I think people applying to a reach and a back up should be able to fully apply to both. Couples match should also be permitted more.
 
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holdthemayo said:
An application cap is a really good idea if they do virtual interviews. In the past, there were financial and logistical limitations that helped keep people from going on more than a reasonable number of interviews.

With virtual interviews there is no reason to not attend as many interviews as you are offered, even if you have little interest in a program.

The thing that would make sense to me is a "per specialty" cap. I think people applying to a reach and a back up should be able to fully apply to both. Couples match should also be permitted more.
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I hope they allow it for 90. For people with lower stats having a bigger cap is just more important. I can understand an interview max cap but not necessarily an application cap.
 
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