Oklahoma future 2011ers part 01

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I'm relatively sure that the one rejection vote thing isn't the case. Maybe two rejects?

Anyways... http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061219/ap_on_re_us/premarital_sex

check that out if you're bored. Not really that exciting, but mildly interesting.

Three weeks from today, I'll be interviewing! Unless it snows....

Thanks for the reference, Jwax. I read the article, and it reminded me of why I no longer consider myself a conservative. I think that the average vote-minded red-state politician is a little bit out of touch with reality (big surprise!). Here in Oklahoma, the few open liberals just cutely abstain from voting in the state house whenever issues like these come up. I'm particularly critical of those who want us to teach phony science in our kids' classrooms, but this is a good example too.

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Well, please be sure to let the other people in leadership know how you feel about the issue. This was an unusual situation - the minutes are deliberately vague and we didn't discuss the issue with the class because we wanted to keep the response low-key. While I did not support taking things forward to the deans or "ratting" on anybody, I was in that class and I was very much offended - and would have been offended regardless of how the "victim" felt about it - to me, it's not false sensitivity if I was pissed-off, and I was. McNeill would never have dared to make that particular comment to a woman and the fact that putting things in a same-sex context made it an acceptable joke was over-the-line. I don't mind their off-color humor when it's directed at nobody in particular - nor does anyone I talked to - but using one student as a straight man for a joke was inappropriate, regardless of how he felt about it.

I accept that you don't agree with my vote and don't feel that we acted appropriately, but once the issue came to us (which I had nothing to do with - I was going to let it drop), I did support talking to McNeill and O'Don privately as an appropriate response (and still do). I didn't get what I wanted, either - I saw no reason to include O'Don for an issue with McNeill. It would have been more honest to note in the minutes that we had an "executive session" not on the public record but I'm not the secretary. As a group, we did what we thought was right.
 
Well, please be sure to let the other people in leadership know how you feel about the issue. This was an unusual situation - the minutes are deliberately vague and we didn't discuss the issue with the class because we wanted to keep the response low-key. While I did not support taking things forward to the deans or "ratting" on anybody, I was in that class and I was very much offended - and would have been offended regardless of how the "victim" felt about it - to me, it's not false sensitivity if I was pissed-off, and I was. McNeill would never have dared to make that particular comment to a woman and the fact that putting things in a same-sex context made it an acceptable joke was over-the-line. I don't mind their off-color humor when it's directed at nobody in particular - nor does anyone I talked to - but using one student as a straight man for a joke was inappropriate, regardless of how he felt about it.

I accept that you don't agree with my vote and don't feel that we acted appropriately, but once the issue came to us (which I had nothing to do with - I was going to let it drop), I did support talking to McNeill and O'Don privately as an appropriate response (and still do). I didn't get what I wanted, either - I saw no reason to include O'Don for an issue with McNeill. It would have been more honest to note in the minutes that we had an "executive session" not on the public record but I'm not the secretary. As a group, we did what we thought was right.

I'm sure you did, but it doesn't mean it was right. The underreporting and lack of information given to the class about it is especially appalling to me. From reading the class notes, it appears that the class secretary didn't accurately report what happened in a class meeting and left out some highly relevant information. As a representative agency, your actions should be transparent. Hiding what you're doing isn't acceptable.

As for who was and who wasn't offended, I'm still troubled by making a fuss for a student who didn't want it. If that were me, as I stated way before, this whole thing would actually make me feel worse. Failing to even ask this student how he felt isn't cool. He should have been involved, too.

Okay, I just emailed our class president about this. Hopefully, he'll have the decency to respond to my email (decency our exam review guy is lacking). I also think it's his job as class president to post something on hippocrates about what's going on. I'm still very disgusted about the class notes -- it's totally unacceptable to create inaccurate class minutes. That is unprofessional.
 
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my ocd just manifested itself by ranking the class by id number. haha, took me like 45 minutes using excel and a couple of scripts to parse text from the pdfs. 46 4.0's after the first semester. you know you're curious.
 
my ocd just manifested itself by ranking the class by id number. haha, took me like 45 minutes using excel and a couple of scripts to parse text from the pdfs. 46 4.0's after the first semester. you know you're curious.

Yeah, I'm curious. Our official grades are also available. :)
 
I'm sure you did, but it doesn't mean it was right. The underreporting and lack of information given to the class about it is especially appalling to me. From reading the class notes, it appears that the class secretary didn't accurately report what happened in a class meeting and left out some highly relevant information. As a representative agency, your actions should be transparent. Hiding what you're doing isn't acceptable.

As for who was and who wasn't offended, I'm still troubled by making a fuss for a student who didn't want it. If that were me, as I stated way before, this whole thing would actually make me feel worse. Failing to even ask this student how he felt isn't cool. He should have been involved, too.

Okay, I just emailed our class president about this. Hopefully, he'll have the decency to respond to my email (decency our exam review guy is lacking). I also think it's his job as class president to post something on hippocrates about what's going on. I'm still very disgusted about the class notes -- it's totally unacceptable to create inaccurate class minutes. That is unprofessional.
I'm pretty sure many in the current class offices will be dumped next time we vote...we do get to vote again don't we? Please don't tell me these are the types we'll have to put up with for another 3.5 yrs.

We have an exam reviewer who doesn't reply to students emails, notegroups that are missing or wrong half the time and a chair that lies about it, and a council that thinks it's ok the keep important info from the students they're supposedly representing....and council minutes that are whitewashed :laugh:

We got ourselves a nice Watergate.

Now I want to know exactly what was said at this private meeting on behalf of our class.:confused: I feel like I need to personally go up to Odon and McNeill and apologize :rolleyes:
 
I'm pretty sure many in the current class offices will be dumped next time we vote...we do get to vote again don't we? Please don't tell me these are the types we'll have to put up with for another 3.5 yrs.

We have an exam reviewer who doesn't reply to students emails, notegroups that are missing or wrong half the time and a chair that lies about it, and a council that thinks it's ok the keep important info from the students they're supposedly representing....and council minutes that are whitewashed :laugh:

We got ourselves a nice Watergate.

Now I want to know exactly what was said at this private meeting on behalf of our class.:confused: I feel like I need to personally go up to Odon and McNeill and apologize :rolleyes:

Unfortunately, I don't think we vote again, so we're stuck. Yeah, they are largely a disappointing lot -- at least the ones we have contact with. No offense, Nontrad, I've never seen what you do since your work is sort of behind the scenes. But yeah, the secretary is basically a liar, the president is (I hate to say it) seemingly a wimp who just advises us that we should go to anything the dean's at, the exam review guy is unresponsive which is the kiss of death in his job, and the notegroups chick doesn't seem to do anything.

Well, we all know people are just involved to pad their resumes, so I don't know why I'm surprised. :rolleyes:

And I can't spell.
 
I still say we just blame it all on Freeze and call it a day :D
 
my ocd just manifested itself by ranking the class by id number. haha, took me like 45 minutes using excel and a couple of scripts to parse text from the pdfs. 46 4.0's after the first semester. you know you're curious.

I'd love to see how close to the bottom I am:D
 
The person who is last made a D in both gross and biochem. Do you think you'd bother to show up for the spring in that case? You know you're already doing the year over, so you might take some time off or something.
 
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The person who is last made a D in both gross and biochem. Do you think you'd bother to show up for the spring in that case? You know you're already doing the year over, so you might take some time off or something.

wow that would suck soooooooooo bad :scared:
 
my ocd just manifested itself by ranking the class by id number. haha, took me like 45 minutes using excel and a couple of scripts to parse text from the pdfs. 46 4.0's after the first semester. you know you're curious.

Can I get that file too? :)
 
wow...I am way down there in the rankings :D
 
Unfortunately, I don't think we vote again, so we're stuck. Yeah, they are largely a disappointing lot -- at least the ones we have contact with. No offense, Nontrad, I've never seen what you do since your work is sort of behind the scenes. But yeah, the secretary is basically a liar, the president is (I hate to say it) seemingly a wimp who just advises us that we should go to anything the dean's at, the exam review guy is unresponsive which is the kiss of death in his job, and the notegroups chick doesn't seem to do anything.

Well, we all know people are just involved to pad their resumes, so I don't know why I'm surprised. :rolleyes:

I want to say that there were some officer changes for 2009. AG, Amx, or WIJG, this is your cue. I just assumed that the offices were up for grabs again. It would be odd that we have to make such a binding decision so early during MS 1. I know that 09's pres and VP were the same, but having actually more interaction with them than our own officers, I can actually endorse their elections. I don't know who some of our people are.

lol--just went to our class website to see who our officers are. They are not there.

Well I remember the person I voted for getting intramural, treasurer, philanthropy, and I think secretary (sorry--she seemed like she had the right background and was actually friendly to me back then). The others I either didn't vote for or they've remained invisible to us since the election. :rolleyes:

:idea: I should run for something. Do we have a poetry chair?
 
I never heard back from the cell biology department or from O'Don, and my official anatomy grade is posted as a C. I'm so pissed. My average exam grade is somewhere around 82%, add in the dissection and PBL points and it's somewhere around 86%. How is it fair that I earn a C??? O'Don said in his email to me that what Chung said has no bearing and he has to follow the syllabus. He also said he would review my grades and do what he thought was fair. It hardly seems fair to have the course director say "This audience response exam will not lower your grade, but will increase your grade. OK? Everybody understood?" and then have it mean nothing. The syllabus says ARS OR alternate exam. It seems like the average of my other exams could substitute, or at least it seems like that's what Chung was trying to say in the course introduction. Needless to say, the cell biology department is getting a call in the morning, and they better be there!!

My biochem grade is also lower than I calculated! I made it to several of the clinical correlations, but they never took attendance when I was there, I guess that must have been worth a lot! I'm calling about this as well.
 
I TOTALLY agree with all that...I was wondering if the guy who he asked that to was even offended or whatever...good to know he wasn't.

It would've been much more appropriate to say to McNeill:
Concerning your "whatcha doin after class?" joke::
4 people are claiming to be highly offended
The student actually involved was NOT offended
148 students thought it was funny.
3 students were absent.
and 9 "didn't get it" :laugh:


If those people are gonna seriously represent us as a class then they should keep us informed instead of us hearing through the grapevine.

Sooooooo......what was the joke?
 
I never heard back from the cell biology department or from O'Don, and my official anatomy grade is posted as a C. I'm so pissed. My average exam grade is somewhere around 82%, add in the dissection and PBL points and it's somewhere around 86%. How is it fair that I earn a C??? O'Don said in his email to me that what Chung said has no bearing and he has to follow the syllabus. He also said he would review my grades and do what he thought was fair. It hardly seems fair to have the course director say "This audience response exam will not lower your grade, but will increase your grade. OK? Everybody understood?" and then have it mean nothing. The syllabus says ARS OR alternate exam. It seems like the average of my other exams could substitute, or at least it seems like that's what Chung was trying to say in the course introduction. Needless to say, the cell biology department is getting a call in the morning, and they better be there!!

My biochem grade is also lower than I calculated! I made it to several of the clinical correlations, but they never took attendance when I was there, I guess that must have been worth a lot! I'm calling about this as well.

If O'Don doesn't raise your grade, I think that's something that you could easily take to Dean Schmidt or Dean Hall (I don't know who the best choice would be -- anyone?). Chung said it, and we all heard it. That's just not right. :mad:
 
Sooooooo......what was the joke?

It was sort of an interactive lecture on the cranial nerves. One part of it related to the gag reflex and one guy who supposedly didn't have a gag was asked "what are you doing after class?"

It would've been funnier if it wasn't an old joke we'd all already heard from our Guide to Surviving Your First Year of Med School.
 
It was sort of an interactive lecture on the cranial nerves. One part of it related to the gag reflex and one guy who supposedly didn't have a gag was asked "what are you doing after class?"

It would've been funnier if it wasn't an old joke we'd all already heard from our Guide to Surviving Your First Year of Med School.

And it was made worse because the person he made the joke about was gay. I doubt he knew this student was gay, but he was. That's really why we're here right now.

I'm not a fan of homophobia. I'm pretty far on the liberal/pc end of things, but I still think we're overreacting. And I'm still concerned that we're not considering the viewpoint of the affected student. And I'm still totally p&ssed about the dishonest class minutes and about our class officers who are scared to officially say anything about anything to anyone in our class about what's going on. That's not a knock against OU -- I bet most schools have pretty lame student representation. :)

Can you tell I did journalism in college instead of student government? :D
 
I want to say that there were some officer changes for 2009. AG, Amx, or WIJG, this is your cue. I just assumed that the offices were up for grabs again. It would be odd that we have to make such a binding decision so early during MS 1. I know that 09's pres and VP were the same, but having actually more interaction with them than our own officers, I can actually endorse their elections. I don't know who some of our people are.

Yeah, all positions are open at the end of the year - in our case, probably at least 2/3 of the positions ran unopposed. A lot of them were the same people that held the position 1st year, some (like me) were new people in positions where the officer from last year didn't want to do it again. I think part of it was that everybody was really happy with the job that most of our officers did during 1st year, so we weren't really hankerin' for change. I would guess the situation might be a bit different for you come second year...
 
I'm not a fan of homophobia. I'm pretty far on the liberal/pc end of things, but I still think we're overreacting. And I'm still concerned that we're not considering the viewpoint of the affected student. And I'm still totally p&ssed about the dishonest class minutes and about our class officers who are scared to officially say anything about anything to anyone in our class about what's going on. That's not a knock against OU -- I bet most schools have pretty lame student representation. :)
Well, I hope this discussion doesn't damage relationships. I'll probably get voted out of office next year if there's a "clean sweep." I'll give the checkbook to somebody else and go back to studying. I may be padding my resume, but it's sometimes a pain - especially right about now.

To say that we were "scared" is perjorative - unnecessarily. You guys are practically standing on your heads objecting to anything that might embarrass O'Don or McNeill - which was precisely the point - to let McNeill know there were objections - privately. Listing the detail in the minutes would have defeated that, because those minutes go to everyone including administration. As I said, I would have preferred that the minutes listed a closed discussion, which is perfectly legitimate and more professional. Also, saying that we didn't consider the viewpoint of the affected student is an assumption. I was concerned about this issue and got the president's agreement that he would talk to the affected person before anything went forward. We weren't purporting to represent him and weren't seeking his permission - we were representing the people who were offended - but I did say that if affected student had considerable objections, we needed to revisit the discussion and modify our approach if need be. I at least wanted him to know what was happening.

Johnny, telling McNeill that just a few people were offended was the plan. Nobody wanted to pretend that this was the majority view of the class - we knew perfectly well it wasn't (and we would be outside our rights to present it as a majority view - it wasn't even a majority view of the officers) - but a few people did have strong opinions and we have a responsibility to represent those people, too - telling them to go on to the Deans would have been ignoring our responsibility. Having a quick discussion with McNeill to say "hey, a few people are upset about what was said in class" was an attempt to satisfy those who were upset quickly, quietly, and with a minimum of fuss. I'm standing on my head now - but we were trying to help McNeill and stop something from blowing up in his face because we didn't think it was that big of a deal, either. Not doing anything wasn't an option. It would have been worse if we'd blown it off.

If the opinions of those few people who were very upset could be overruled by the tyranny of the majority, it would still be legal to lynch gay people. Oh, wait, this is Oklahoma - I think that is still legal.
 
Hmm... I might try to run for Exam Review Chair... pad my resume and make sure I only protest questions on exams that I did bad on. Do I have your vote guys?

Smitty, good luck getting your grade. I had borderline B's in every class, I think. Makes me sort of angry that I will have a 3.0, when if I answered 1 more question correct in anatomy I would have a much higher GPA. Oh well.
 
Yeah, its wonderful how a simple issue like this can cause an all out explosion in arguments even when both sides agree that it has been blown out of proportion.
 
Hmm... I might try to run for Exam Review Chair... pad my resume and make sure I only protest questions on exams that I did bad on. Do I have your vote guys?

Smitty, good luck getting your grade. I had borderline B's in every class, I think. Makes me sort of angry that I will have a 3.0, when if I answered 1 more question correct in anatomy I would have a much higher GPA. Oh well.

If you promise to at least reply to my emails, you have my vote. That's all I want -- it's pretty simple
 
To say that we were "scared" is perjorative - unnecessarily. You guys are practically standing on your heads objecting to anything that might embarrass O'Don or McNeill - which was precisely the point - to let McNeill know there were objections - privately. Listing the detail in the minutes would have defeated that, because those minutes go to everyone including administration. As I said, I would have preferred that the minutes listed a closed discussion, which is perfectly legitimate and more professional. Also, saying that we didn't consider the viewpoint of the affected student is an assumption. I was concerned about this issue and got the president's agreement that he would talk to the affected person before anything went forward. We weren't purporting to represent him and weren't seeking his permission - we were representing the people who were offended - but I did say that if affected student had considerable objections, we needed to revisit the discussion and modify our approach if need be. I at least wanted him to know what was happening.

Johnny, telling McNeill that just a few people were offended was the plan. Nobody wanted to pretend that this was the majority view of the class - we knew perfectly well it wasn't (and we would be outside our rights to present it as a majority view - it wasn't even a majority view of the officers) - but a few people did have strong opinions and we have a responsibility to represent those people, too - telling them to go on to the Deans would have been ignoring our responsibility. Having a quick discussion with McNeill to say "hey, a few people are upset about what was said in class" was an attempt to satisfy those who were upset quickly, quietly, and with a minimum of fuss. I'm standing on my head now - but we were trying to help McNeill and stop something from blowing up in his face because we didn't think it was that big of a deal, either. Not doing anything wasn't an option. It would have been worse if we'd blown it off.

If the opinions of those few people who were very upset could be overruled by the tyranny of the majority, it would still be legal to lynch gay people. Oh, wait, this is Oklahoma - I think that is still legal.

Okay, so here's the deal with the "scared" thing -- why hasn't anybody from student government posted anything about this on the discussion forum. At this point, it's gotten far enough where one of you guys should have come forward and said something. I emailed our president and specifically told him that. Hopefully, he'll do something -- it's his job (I was sure to tell him that :) ).

As for the latter comment, you're right. The majority doesn't have to be offended for something to be wrong, and lots of bad comments won't offend the majority. If our class president did ask the affected party, then that's good. I hope that happened. Who know what happened, though, since you guys apparently don't like to involve the class in what you do. Yeah, low blow, I know, but there is a communication problem, and we need some resolution for that. Censuring the minutes for a class meeting isn't the way to go, unless your goal is to destroy trust.
 
Hmm... I might try to run for Exam Review Chair... pad my resume and make sure I only protest questions on exams that I did bad on. Do I have your vote guys?

Smitty, good luck getting your grade. I had borderline B's in every class, I think. Makes me sort of angry that I will have a 3.0, when if I answered 1 more question correct in anatomy I would have a much higher GPA. Oh well.

From what I hear, exam review is handled differently from here on out. I'll let AG jump in since that's his job, but what I've heard is that we don't have many classes that use it anymore. I'll definitely vote for you, dawg.

Don't sweat the GPA, especially if you are really interested in rad onc. It won't matter because you'll probably have to go out of state if they don't get it in place here soon. Plus in the long run, these classes won't mean diddly in the grand scheme of things the way that they compute GPA here.

If you promise to at least reply to my emails, you have my vote. That's all I want -- it's pretty simple

Yeah, and you have to be facebook friends with me too.
 
Well, the class president hasn't replied to my email yet. I guess he's probably too busy playing ping pong in my mod to do that. BTW, ping pong tables in the mod -- it should be banned, that's all I have to say about that. :mad:

Do you guys pick up on the general theme? Tons of damage and lack of credibility can happen just because you don't reply to emails. It's sort of funny, but it's serious, too. Nothing p&sses a person off more than not getting a reply to their email -- nothing. :mad: If you're incompetent and appear responsive, people love you. If you're totally competent and yet unresponsive, people hate you. All that PCM stuff they teach you has some truth to it. ;)
 
I respond to your emails! {exlaw}

Hey you gotta have a game to play when you're too young to drink. :D

I owe you an email, so I think I'm maybe a hypocrite. :scared:

We do have course evalutions, which I think would be a perfect place to bring up this comment if you were offended. Of course, maybe that doesn't pass the Leon test because it might be venting. :rolleyes: All I can say is that biochem would have gotten a much better review from me if it weren't for that 18 minute speech before the final. ;) That's old news, though. :)

So let's focus on getting Smitty a higher grade in anatomy. I think we all agree on that one!
 
the real truth is that this entire debacle is a result of poor communication and leadership by our officers. it was obvious after that lecture that some people were clearly offended. i dont believe it was egregious but it should have been adddressed and any further actions or reasons for not pursuing further action should have been communicated to the class. this entire debacle is a consequence of poor communication, and poor communication is not acceptable from people who claim to be leaders. president of the class should not be the office in charge of setting up class dances, it should actually be the intelligent voice of the student body.
 
I have seen several mentions of GPA calculations, etc., as well as "AOA." Can someone explain how your GPA is calculated, if it varies from the usual method, as well as what AOA means? Thanks!
 
I owe you an email, so I think I'm maybe a hypocrite. :scared:

We do have course evalutions, which I think would be a perfect place to bring up this comment if you were offended. Of course, maybe that doesn't pass the Leon test because it might be venting. :rolleyes: All I can say is that biochem would have gotten a much better review from me if it weren't for that 18 minute speech before the final. ;) That's old news, though. :)

So let's focus on getting Smitty a higher grade in anatomy. I think we all agree on that one!

Oh man...Leon is brutal about talking about all sorts of meaningless trivia before every exam and the final was the worst....half the class was chompin at the bit ready to start and he's talking about whatever it was. I like the guy a lot...but damn..stop talking and let us get after it.

Smitty will get her B...Chung saying it is on mp3...
 
the real truth is that this entire debacle is a result of poor communication and leadership by our officers. it was obvious after that lecture that some people were clearly offended. i dont believe it was egregious but it should have been adddressed and any further actions or reasons for not pursuing further action should have been communicated to the class. this entire debacle is a consequence of poor communication, and poor communication is not acceptable from people who claim to be leaders. president of the class should not be the office in charge of setting up class dances, it should actually be the intelligent voice of the student body.

Yeah, you're right. I guess they need some PR people.
 
I have seen several mentions of GPA calculations, etc., as well as "AOA." Can someone explain how your GPA is calculated, if it varies from the usual method, as well as what AOA means? Thanks!

gpa is the same as in undergrad with difference being the class hours assigned. in college most classes are 3-5 hours. in med school each class is weighted to how many class hours there are. e.g. gross is 130 hours, biochem 128 hours, and embryo 32 hrs. so an A, B, or C is weighted accordingly. the problem is that with the group of overachievers that is med school combined with the relative grade inflation at OU, there end up being a lot of people with 4.0s. in the event of a tie, which there is at the top of the class, rank is decided by your precentage. so in our class after the first semester the top quartile is everyone with a > 92% and not just a 4.0. AOA is the medical school honor society which makes getting into top specialties much more attainable. i have heard that junior AOA (getting in after 2 yrs) is the top 5% and senior AOA (getting in after 3rd yr) is either the top 10% or the top 17%. i have heard both and am not sure which one it is. the thing is it is hard to know where you stand bc you can potentially have all A's and get left out when the honors are awarded.
 
I have seen several mentions of GPA calculations, etc., as well as "AOA." Can someone explain how your GPA is calculated, if it varies from the usual method, as well as what AOA means? Thanks!

Hey there, long time no talk.

GPA is based on contact hours rather than credit hours. Since embryo is only 30 contact hours and gross and biochem are both several times that, Gross and Biochem are both only worth 16% of first year GPA each while embryo is something like 4% despite the fact that you have just as many exams. They should have given you a chart at your interview with all of the contact hours associated with the classes. There is a pie chart in the unofficial guide that you will get at disorientation (8 months from now) that breaks everything down. The main thing, though, is that MS 3 carries as much weight as 1 and 2 combined because the contact hours are double. MS 4 won't matter at all because you'll already have your PGY apps in. The guide also says that a higher class rank (based on GPA) looks good on a residency application, but take that with some salt because most other medical schools that I am familiar with don't use GPA's or A-B-C grades at all.

The only place it will matter, though, is membership in Alpha Omega Alpha (wikipedia link), or AOA. Only the top sixth of the class is AOA eligible, which is decided upon at the end of year 3 (senior AOA). A third of the sixth are junior (end of MS 2), and their grades are based on no MS 3 rotations. AOA does look good on a residency application because it's the only way to show how you did relative to your classmates. Those interviewing you for residencies outside of here won't have any idea what your grades mean (actually they'll probably wonder why they're so damn high and wonder why our step 1's aren't absolutely magnificent). So when you hear us bantering about AOA, we are trying to put that golden stamp on our apps. It is almost necessary if you want to do something competative (derm, ophtho, neurosurg, plastic surgery, gas passing or rads by the time we get there, etc.) outside of Oklahoma.

In the past, there have been years when straight A's have been necessary through all 3 years to make senior AOA--that's where the stress comes from. This year an MS 4 told me that he had straight A's all the way up to his last rotation (OB/Gyn) and missed senior AOA by a lone B. Again, this is heresay, but with OU's broad A range, it has supposedly happened that even people with straight A's have been excluded from AOA. All people with 4.0's do get some kind of distinguishing comment on their diploma, AOA or not.

If you are walking by a composite sometime when you are up here, look at the people with the cords around their necks. That's AOA.

OU is very traditional in many respects including AOA candidacy. Yeah the society is supposed to have something to do with these side awards you can get, leadership, service and so forth, but they tend to give all of the awards to the people with the best grades so it is cyclical.

Honestly, and this is just my old ass talking, I would really just focus on taking a streamlined learning approach. Get your money's worth, as the crammers tend to get weeded out by IHI during MS 2 in the long run. Step 1 is really the most important thing.

And above all, be nice to attractive women. They run the world.
 
It is almost necessary if you want to do something competative (derm, ophtho, neurosurg, plastic surgery, gas passing or rads by the time we get there, etc.) outside of Oklahoma.

i very much disagree with anesthesia. AOA is definitaley not necessary. rads is very competitive but acually has fewer us apps than spots so i disagree with that one as well. obviously if you want a top 15 program placement it might be necessary but for a spot i say no for rads and gas. a qualification is that board of 230+ for rads and 220+ for gas are probably a reasonable expectation.
 
i very much disagree with anesthesia. AOA is definitaley not necessary. rads is very competitive but acually has fewer us apps than spots so i disagree with that one as well. obviously if you want a top 15 program placement it might be necessary but for a spot i say no for rads and gas. a qualification is that board of 230+ for rads and 220+ for gas are probably a reasonable expectation.

Trudat. There are two qualifications I'm making though--one is that these two are becoming increasingly popular as people continue to run screaming away from primary care, and the other is that I meant to emphasize "outside of Oklahoma." If you look at our matches recently, there aren't very many rads matches outside of Baptist or OU; and those who did go away have been AOA (that I know of anyway, I may stand corrected). This may also just be a coincidence in that the gunners have worked toward leaving the state all along.

For gas, UAB is really one of the more popular ones for our grads because there is a group in Tulsa that won't take OU-trained gassers (again, second-hand information from a now PGY-1 at UAB). Out-of-state at a state program often needs more of a push if you have no reason to stay there and practice.

It is true that I would definitely put rads and gas in the tier below ophtho, derm, plastics, urology, ORL, and ortho; and I certainly hope that they stay that way. Their relative lack of patient contact will probably keep them out of that top tier, but as you know, I am a paranoid cynic.

glp is right, though, the boards are the most important thing in all cases.

Edit:

In many of the situations we speak of, it is like the blind leading the blind. Med school does not give you enough exposure in MS 1 or 2 to know what you'll truly be interested in, nor is it possible to predict the future job market or whatever government regulatations might affect your specialty. We're too damn busy memorizing enzymes and body parts! So it was not uncommon at all for many of my classmates to know nothing about residencies, AOA, or the USMLE at the beginning of school. This is not that true with most of us on SDN because we are mostly folks who've had significant exposure to healthcare either through first degree relatives or through our own jobs; but I still kinda feel like we're wandering around in the dark, and our only defense against the unknown is to bust our asses at all costs to avoid being "stuck" with some specialty we didn't want.

You could get opinions about topics like this one from three different people and get three different answers and have them all be true. I'm normally down for a good SDN argument, but this is one case where I'm happy to yield to others. There is a NRMP book that gives nationwide statistics for boards and such per specialty, but nobody really seems to know how competative they really were until they've already matched; and every class is different with "hot" specialties changing cycle-by-cycle. Years ago, anesthesiology was considered the bottom of the barrel. Nowadays the salary and lifestyle are so attractive that it's probably tougher to match than surgery. We have interest groups where current residents and docs come and talk to us, but none of the people I've listened to have accurately mirrored what I am interested in doing; so I haven't gleaned much from it yet.
 
For gas, UAB is really one of the more popular ones for our grads because there is a group in Tulsa that won't take OU-trained gassers (again, second-hand information from a now PGY-1 at UAB). Out-of-state at a state program often needs more of a push if you have no reason to stay there and practice.

if you are talking about associated anesthesiologists inc. i know for a fact they take OU trained residents.
 
if you are talking about associated anesthesiologists inc. i know for a fact they take OU trained residents.

Not sure. One of my friends is married to an OU med grad who is an anesthesiology resident at UAB. I asked him if he wanted to go to UAB or if he didn't get in at OU. He said UAB was his number 1. I asked why. He said that there is a group in Tulsa who told him to go elsewhere. He's a native Okie along with his wife, so he really took their advice to heart.

(shoulder shrug)

Dunno, I really don't know that much about gas. I'm just quoting the PGY-4 who talked to us at the last meeting with respect to the fact that it is becoming more competative, though he did say that they take mostly OU people here and one OSU person. The program here has its first prelim year incorporated and takes place at Baptist. To me, that makes it more attractive because I'd rather do an intern year at Baptist if I were going into anesthesiology.

In all honesty, though, I kinda got dragged to the interest group meeting. I'm really not the best person to comment on it.
 
Holy ****ing ****!??!?! Where do I start?

I spend last night at the Y and all day today doing my wife's version of "Flip That House", and then I come in here!?!?! You guys have ranked the whole class, tarred and feathered the 2010 officers (sans the $$$-man, you rock!), campaigned for next year's elections, bashed ping-pong, vented about the ills of the traditional grading scale and its place in medical school, and somehow, ALL OF THIS IS MY FAULT!?!?!?! I'm flattered!!

I'd respond to it all, but my feelings on the matter have been expressed already. However, I would add that I don't know necessarily that the preference of the "victim":rolleyes: had anything to do with peoples' feelings on the matter, because at THE EXACT MOMENT it was said, how many people knew holmes was into all that bidness?? I didn't. Offended or not, you won't forget which ****ing cranial nerve does the gag reflex.

Where are these final grades and rankings and whatever all this other **** is that determines the rest of my career?

Now that my work-day is done, I bid you guys A-****ing-dieu...:sleep: :sleep:
 
I'd respond to it all, but my feelings on the matter have been expressed already. However, I would add that I don't know necessarily that the preference of the "victim":rolleyes: had anything to do with peoples' feelings on the matter, because at THE EXACT MOMENT it was said, how many people knew holmes was into all that bidness?? I didn't. Offended or not, you won't forget which ****ing cranial nerve does the gag reflex.

Afferent glossopharyngeal, efferent vagus--excellent point.

You can access your grades through the link on Hippocrates.

Yeah for the break I learned how to subscribe to a thread and get instant notifications when somebody posts. Between emails, SDN, myspace, facebook, etc., my new mail indicator has been going off every ten minutes.
 
As I am sick and home from work... more questions for the medschool mafia to take your mind off the politics. :D

Who teaches what for MS1 (at least the first semester)? I know from reading this thread that there are multiple lecturers for the same class, but could you break it down for us?

Who is a good lecturer? Is there anyone that could teach you the phone book and make it interesting? Who is isn't so good?

Who has more material on tests and whose material is harder?

Since you guys are talking about competitive specialties, does anyone know OU's average score on Step 1 & 2 (specifically Step 1)? I asked during my interview and all I could get was: "Our pass rate is on par with the rest of the US, and that won't be a problem for you." I wasn't really satisfied. You can pass by one point but if, say, 3/4 of the class barely passes that says something about the school's curriculum.

I know that one can work hard and overcome, but like the Wiz, I don't want to be limited in what specialty I ultimately go into because of my first two years.
 
This is the kinda **** that makes me want to get on top of a building with a rifle. I've seen 5 headlines like this in the last month. How are these f*cking PC-nazis getting away with psycho **** like this?

http://www.herald-mail.com/?module=displaystory&story_id=154557&format=print

That's is Ridiculous. I mean SERIOUSLY?!?!? Five year olds don't know enough (if anything!) about sex to realize what they are doing is inappropriate. Who came up with that :idea: ?

I had another comment about someone else's post, but while reading the rest of the posts, I forgot what it was :rolleyes: Early onset Alzheimers?

I don't particularly like listening to you guys fight - it damages my image of everyone getting along & liking each other. I like to hold onto my misconceptions as long as possible.

I think the joke is funny - I would have laughed if I'd have been there. I'd have laughed if he said it to me. I get why people got offended though, that's just how we're cut out. There are plenty of things you (general you) could say that would piss me off, too. Also, I have the tendency to say things that are slightly off-color, per example, my dad is jewish so I feel I have the birth-right to make jewish jokes.

It's now less than three weeks til I interview ;)
 
This is the kinda **** that makes me want to get on top of a building with a rifle. I've seen 5 headlines like this in the last month. How are these f*cking PC-nazis getting away with psycho **** like this?

http://www.herald-mail.com/?module=displaystory&story_id=154557&format=print

I agree, things are way out of hand. Even my 7 (almost 8) year old has no clue that sex exists. My kids think that if you kiss you are married. They think that God puts babies in a mom's belly (not sure what they think dad does). My 5 year old asked me where my penis was and how I pee if I don't have one, then he said oh i know, you pee out of your butt. I've also been asked "mom, what is sexy" and "why do all of the exercise commercials say sexy".
If anyone knows how I should respond to these things I would appreciate the advice. I just kinda avoid these things for now.
 
Here to fulfill a personal desire to procrastinate and entertain…

Who teaches what for MS1 (at least the first semester)? I know from reading this thread that there are multiple lecturers for the same class, but could you break it down for us?

Biochem is a hodge podge of passers-by. Leon (who you can see hanging out with us at parties on facebook) is the director, but he only lectures a few of the weeks. We think he has stock in the makers of Inspiration software and gout drugs.

Gross Anatomy is run by four cell biology professors who were called "The Four Horsemen" by one of our notegroup writers. They are Chung (course director), Dan McNeill, Dan O'Donoghue (who we call "O'Don"), and Dandajena. McNeill is the only one who you won't see in the lab much. Chung is the only full-time faculty member. Dandajena is an orthodontist who got a Ph.D. in anatomy under Chung. McNeill and O'Don are PA-C/Ph.D.'s. McNeill is the director of the PA program and doesn't have that big of a role, but he is also a neuroanatomy expert. O'Don's father is a doc, and he actually has only been a PA for about ten years. He'd had a successful career as a Ph.D. neuroanatomist before becoming a clinician.

Who is a good lecturer? Is there anyone that could teach you the phone book and make it interesting? Who is isn't so good?

Last year Sanjay Bidichandani (biochem) was voted the teaching award. He was good, but I know him personally so I'm a little biased. Fuller's section of biochem (hormones) will be taken over by somebody else next year. For biochem, I thought Weigel was also good.

The phone book? How about gross anatomy? It's a list of stuff to commit to rote memory. I don't know anyone who thought that they got a lot out of any of the gross lectures.

In general, med school faculty are not hired for their teaching ability at any place. They are needed to accrue research funding, supposedly to keep our tuition at only 3% of the operating budget. Our courses run by Cell Biology are decent because they have faculty who teach only; and Chung is our resident "guy who wrote a board review book." (OSU has Goljan whose book is a better seller since his path material is higher yield for the USMLE than anatomy.)

Who has more material on tests and whose material is harder?

All of our exams are built from question banks established over many years. Profs just sample from the bank. For biochem, the different lectures submitted questions from their sections. The most obscure teacher IMHO was Hanas—very much branches and not trees if you ask me.

Gross is pretty uniform throughout the first semester. This year, Chung went on sick leave for the last exam, so we got an O'Don sampling from the Q bank that was a little more challenging by most people's estimations.

Since you guys are talking about competitive specialties, does anyone know OU's average score on Step 1 & 2 (specifically Step 1)? I asked during my interview and all I could get was: "Our pass rate is on par with the rest of the US, and that won't be a problem for you." I wasn't really satisfied. You can pass by one point but if, say, 3/4 of the class barely passes that says something about the school's curriculum.

In other SDN threads, it was determined that no school publishes that information. USN&WR would go crazy with that kind of statistic. I think that the Texas schools tell applicants that stuff because those houses are ultimately much more competitive with each other due to the nature of the TMDSAS match system, but I've never heard of anyone mentioning it here.

"Our pass rate is on par with the rest of the US."

The percentiles of the scores change every year, so the admissions people will be quick to point out that "it wouldn't mean much anyway." :D

The vast majority of our students pass the first time. In fact, all accredited US allo schools will tell you the same thing. Since curricula are standardized across the board, this stands to reason. The thing is, though, you can't retake it if you pass. So we are more worried about our score than passing.

I know that one can work hard and overcome, but like the Wiz, I don't want to be limited in what specialty I ultimately go into because of my first two years.

Well I think that a lot of it is in our heads and stems from the natural competitive nature of people who get accepted to medical school. Anyone who wants to do internal med, family practice, psych, neurology, pm&r, ped's, etc. can. In those cases, selection will be at the level of fellowship (step 2/3 and research dependent) and have little to do with MS 1/2.

What most experienced docs tell me is that almost everyone gets to do what they want to do in the long run. There are more residency spots than there are American grads, so going to a U.S. allo school already gives you a leg up. It is true that you may have to interview at 30 different houses to get a match in some of the top ones, but most people can get what they want. Most schools will also tell you that 80+ percent got one of their top 3 choices in the match. Again, this statistic is useless for many students.

I do know a couple of people who were "promised" derm matches but later had to scramble for internal med, but derm is competitive both because of the lifestyle/salary and the relative lack of programs. If the demand for derms rises in the U.S., then, well, we just have to wait longer for an appointment or shift the caseload to PA's. Man last year, there was only one MS 4 who matched ORL, and she had to apply to 90 programs. I guess she REALLY wanted to do it.

I don't particularly like listening to you guys fight - it damages my image of everyone getting along & liking each other. I like to hold onto my misconceptions as long as possible.

We're all friends here. It is very much like a barbershop. Besides, we've decided that it's Freeze's fault.

My 5 year old asked me where my penis was and how I pee if I don't have one

I must admit that this also puzzled me for years. I'm still not sure how it works.
 
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