it won’t cause more harm than good because a “#1 email” is not an official thing that is part of the process. People have matched #1 without sending an email and if you look at the data, only about 30% of people match at their #1 anyway so the majority of people match somewhere who they did NOT send a #1 email to.
Official 2020-2021 GI Fellowship Application Cycle
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it won’t cause more harm than good because a “#1 email” is not an official thing that is part of the process. People have matched #1 without sending an email and if you look at the data, only about 30% of people match at their #1 anyway so the majority of people match somewhere who they did NOT send a #1 email to.
Don't really have a preference as I'm open to going anywhere
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Let me clarify - I was wondering about sending emails to my #2 and #3 to say that I'm ranking them "very highly." If I don't specifically use the phrase "ranking you #1," it could be seen as "you're not my first choice" (harm!!!!) rather than "I like this program a whole lot" (good!!!!!).
Oh, I see. Yeah if that’s the case make it more vague than “I’m ranking you highly”. You may not want to mention the word “rank” at all at that point.
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I don't think you've really given anyone enough info to help you rank those programs... And regardless they're all good programs with strong name recognition so any order anyone here gives you would be arbitrary. There's a reason there's no "ranking" for fellowships! My advice would be:
(1) Pick where you want to live. St. Louis and Seattle are two very different cities with different costs of living in different parts of the country. I don't believe that you truly don't have preferences.
(2) Pick where there's someone doing what you want to do (a specific research interest or career path, for example)
(3) Pick the place where you had most fun talking to the fellows -- they're who you'll spend all your time with
Hey can you tell me where you got that number? That does not seem to be in the NRMP Match Outcomes. What is the breakdown for #2 and #3? Thanks!!!
there are multiple reports on the fellowship section on the NRMP site. One of them breaks it down. ~ 30% first choice and then 10% for second, third etc
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want to gather some thoughts here—
I am visiting family in the city I want to do my fellowship. I interviewed at some programs here. Do you think it’s too aggressive to be like “hey can we meet” or “hey can I see your hospital” or “hey can u put me in touch with a fellow so I can walk around the hospital”?
I am visiting family in the city I want to do my fellowship. I interviewed at some programs here. Do you think it’s too aggressive to be like “hey can we meet” or “hey can I see your hospital” or “hey can u put me in touch with a fellow so I can walk around the hospital”?
During a pandemic, I don’t think that’d be the greatest idea. Some hospitals I interviewed at said that their hospital policy is that they can’t even have interviewees tour their facility due to COVID. Seeing as though COVID numbers are increasing in >30 states, seems like you would be creating a possible unnecessary exposure to the fellows. Just my two cents.
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Definitely what I was thinking. Great! Thanks.
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Yeah I’m not sure how much walking around the hospital will really add to your experience, and given the current situation I think it creates unnecessary exposure. Where I work even family members are not allowed unless it’s a kid or an adult that is in ICU and imminently dying.
i know for my fellowship we had Fellows at each site zoom in during one of the breaks to give a 5min tour of the hospital and Endo suite. maybe asking if one of the fellows to show you around via zoom might be something to ask for?
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It’s not going to help you make an informed decision
If you need a 5 minute endo virtual tour to decide where you should go, then you just don’t ‘get it’.
Location, local expertise in your area of interest, and prestige( if you are doing academics). That’s all that matters
-a 3rd year fellow
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Also scope numbers, well-rounded program with exposure to everything, happiness of the fellows, and to some extent what graduates do afterwards also matter. I’d say it should be a little bit of a red flag if they don’t give you an opportunity to chat with current fellows in some way but agree with others that asking to visit in person at this time is a no no.
At one place I interviewed because I was local-ish, one of the interviewers had offered to set me up on a tour with the program coordinator or one of the fellows. I reached back out to them some time later and when they tried to clear it with their fellowship director the FD said that they checked with ACGME who told them that allowing tours would give an unfair advantage to local applicants, and therefore not allowed to offer tours.
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If you want to long-term end up there you should rank California places at the top in my opinion. If you want to remain academic you should be fine at most of those institutions, if you want to do private practice I know Mayo does get as many scopes, etc. so I am ranking it lower because of that. UNC is in the middle of my list, it's a good program but after interviewing at other places I don't think I need 2 years of research/degree time to achieve my personal goals. I am ranking clinically more rigorous programs that still have good research in my field of interest at the top of my list over some more prestigious places since I am not fully decided whether I want to go academic or not. My personal goals may not align with yours though so that's my thinking! Good luck, they are all great programs!
Poop_Emoji
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Any particular insight into the following programs?
Background- Looking for an academic career, leaning towards hepatology. I have no specific location preferences, just want a good training program.
University of Maryland
University of Illinois, Chicago
University of Alabama
University of Minnesota
University of Florida, Gainesville
Mayo Clinic, Arizona
Background- Looking for an academic career, leaning towards hepatology. I have no specific location preferences, just want a good training program.
University of Maryland
University of Illinois, Chicago
University of Alabama
University of Minnesota
University of Florida, Gainesville
Mayo Clinic, Arizona
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I think your best bets for hepatology would be Mayo Arizona, Minnesota, Maryland, and Alabama because they are transplant centers. From what I understand UIC had their hepatology department poached by Loyola and I don't think that UoF Gainesville does transplants.
Edit: UoF Gainesville DOES do transplants as someone pointed out, but the volume is much less than some other Florida centers
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UF is a transplant center. The prior statement about UIC and Loyola is true though.
IBD and advanced are two vastly different areas of expertise.
In any case, my 2cents: Hopkins, UCSD, UCI, Miami, BU/Brown
I vote: Hopkins, UCSD, Miami, BU/Brown, UCI.
UCI not that strong a program compared to others but that’s just my 2cents.
Poop_Emoji
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Both Gainesville and UIC told us during the interview that they do transplants- and I doubled checked on SRTR. Do you mean a lot of hepatology faculty has joined Loyola instead? Interesting. Thank you for your input.
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Applying the next cycle, although your input would be much appreciated and can help me build over the next few months. With all the mixed information I'm getting, I thought its time to ask SDN.
PGY-2 IMG. Step 1 [229]. Step 2 [258]. Step 2 CS [Pass]. Step 3 in January. All on the first attempt. GC
ACP 2 Posters + Award. ACG 8 Posters. DDW 2 Posters
Community affiliated academic program with no in-house fellowship
19 Pubs (14 Case Reports, 5 SRMA). 50% are GI pubs. Currently, 5 submitted, all GI. 1st author on 75% of publications. Although it may seem like I padded my CV with case reports. In my defense, it wasn't intended that way, I really needed the learning curve to get my foot into academic medicine, especially from a program that has minimal scholarly activity or previous graduates that persued GI. After a point, I really enjoyed the process and topics just kept flowing starting with case reports and then SRMA. I have no post-doc fellowship experience and have picked up all my research skills during residency learning the process myself and huge support from my PD.
No big-name journals, still working on projects with attendings around the country to get a LOR in place for next year.
My question is:
1) Overall how is my application perceived?
2) What can I do more? Away rotation opportunities have been limited because of COVID-19
2) I'm worried that my step 1 won't hit filters, but my Step 2 might - how does it work in this situation with filters?
3) I'm working as hard as I can to put forward all my scholarly work during residency hoping to avoid completing a non-ACGME fellowship primarily because Hep/IBD/Motility wont add to my interests. Any thoughts on this? Do I fit into the mould that might need to rely on that to bolster my CV?
Thanks
PGY-2 IMG. Step 1 [229]. Step 2 [258]. Step 2 CS [Pass]. Step 3 in January. All on the first attempt. GC
ACP 2 Posters + Award. ACG 8 Posters. DDW 2 Posters
Community affiliated academic program with no in-house fellowship
19 Pubs (14 Case Reports, 5 SRMA). 50% are GI pubs. Currently, 5 submitted, all GI. 1st author on 75% of publications. Although it may seem like I padded my CV with case reports. In my defense, it wasn't intended that way, I really needed the learning curve to get my foot into academic medicine, especially from a program that has minimal scholarly activity or previous graduates that persued GI. After a point, I really enjoyed the process and topics just kept flowing starting with case reports and then SRMA. I have no post-doc fellowship experience and have picked up all my research skills during residency learning the process myself and huge support from my PD.
No big-name journals, still working on projects with attendings around the country to get a LOR in place for next year.
My question is:
1) Overall how is my application perceived?
2) What can I do more? Away rotation opportunities have been limited because of COVID-19
2) I'm worried that my step 1 won't hit filters, but my Step 2 might - how does it work in this situation with filters?
3) I'm working as hard as I can to put forward all my scholarly work during residency hoping to avoid completing a non-ACGME fellowship primarily because Hep/IBD/Motility wont add to my interests. Any thoughts on this? Do I fit into the mould that might need to rely on that to bolster my CV?
Thanks
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Hi guys, I was wondering about your thoughts on these ny programs Hofsta, mount sinai bi/west/Morningside, mount sinai hospital (main), University Rochester and uconn(i know not in ny). My main question is about the mount sinai bi/ Morningside/west and the university of rochester, since those are the two programs where I don't know anyone training there. I really liked the vibe at the Beth Israel mount sinai more than the main mount sinai and so really wanted to get thoughts on these places.
I'm interested in a program with a good clinical education. I want to do Gen gastroenterology and hope to pursue academics, though I might end up choosing private practice based on family things.
I'm interested in a program with a good clinical education. I want to do Gen gastroenterology and hope to pursue academics, though I might end up choosing private practice based on family things.
maybe im missing it but a HUGE factor: are you AMG MD, IMG or DO grad? That can make or break you at a lot of programs.
Also, if you’re AMG I’m surprised you only were able to match an affiliated program. Was there something holding you back? Was it one of the upper tier ones like Hopkins bayview or just a run of the mill uni-affiliated program?
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Just edited my post. I figured the fear might have given it away, but IMG through and through.
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You need some away electives for 1-2 months at known places and have the known Gastroenterologists in the field recommend you. Is getting tougher and tougher each year.
\If Hep doesn't interest you that is like 25% of patients, and IBD and motility being massively after.
So you want to be a therapeutic endoscopist and those programs, unfortunately, won't invite you even if do a Hep year.
My advice: be open to doing a chief year at an IBD Center of excellence or at a Liver transplant center if you do not want to do non-ACGME.
But no one has a crystal ball, apply to all the programs you are capable of applying for and to
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Thank you for that @ShiShiMD. You're absolutely right, I have to keep that option open. It is becoming incredibly difficult. Do PDs look at non-ACGME GI fellowships as required clinical experience for applicants that don't have in-house fellowships? Or are these fellowship designed to pick up research skills?
If I'm not able to get an away rotation, is there any other way to show clinical GI competency?
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I look at these as an advantage over other applicants both in terms on research, knowing how to do research and being already taught 25%.
But again, no one has a crystal ball for next season. I can tell you this from talking to other people at various programs, diverse set of states: This year everyone I spoke to, has over 500 applications for 2 spot, over 600 some close to 800 for 3 spots.
Connection and doing research.
Research do literature review, we like those.
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Sad but true. Way too much emphasis on research imho
Poop_Emoji
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It's funny I interviewed at 1 program that offered <2 months protected research time and most grads going into private practice - but my interviewers all asked me about what research I had done.
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This field is so evolving, is daily, weekly innovations. Research leads to the innovation for precise personalized competent and compassionate evidence-centered based patient care.
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The problem is academicians are interviewing candidates who may want to be clinically oriented. They are in many ways not even having the same job in mind. Nobody is arguing that research is very important. But there need to be physicians who actually apply those best practices in the community. You can be an excellent clinician without ever once writing an IRB proposal and the opposite is also true (being a great researcher without having great clinical skills).
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I interviewed at mainly academic programs and 1-2 community programs. At the community programs I interviewed at one PD said that the best clinicians are the ones that are able to interpret and critically evaluate literature. It helps to have done some research because then you are better able to make evidence based recommendations to patients and thoughtfully critique research so you can decide what you incorporate into your practice. Personally I think 1-2 research projects help with that but overall we do place far too much emphasis on research compared to clinical skills, etc. (to be fair though these are hard to gather from the application).
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Agreed! I had a community-oriented program interview me where every single fellow has gone to private practice and has no plans of doing research beyond the requirement of the program to graduate. That being said I was blasted for having a subpar research background. I have a dozen publications. If that counts as subpar (and I am ok with constructive criticism), then I shudder to think how the match is going to go for me in December
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lol you’ll be fine
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I call BS. No program is going to blast you if you have 12 publications. Unless they’re all case reports
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There's no point/gain for me to lie. End of discussion
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Not saying you’re lying. I’m Saying it doesn’t make sense if you have 12 publications, and by that you mean 12 first or second author publications, that any program would “blast” you for that. That’s not how these things work. 3-5 publication where you are heavily involved is plenty to get into GI.
So by posting that you stress out these other applicants who think they need 13 publications to get into GI.
If you’re third or more author on the publication, don’t bother counting that among your 12.
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Sorry, I do see your point. I should add that it was one particular program and I haven’t had issues at others. Didn’t mean to stress people unnecessarily
DrIndianaJones
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Do we have to send number 1 emails? is it expected? it seems kind of contrived/disingenuous and does it really even shift their ranking of you? I felt as though my ranking was pretty much determined before my interviews started.
gastroapplicant2020
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Just curious, what made you feel that way?
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I know what you are saying, and I always tell those with research plans for academics to go to the research pathway or pilot programs
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Anyone know if GI is similar to Cards around ranking time with programs reaching out (wether if bet a phone call or email) to let you know that they are ranking you to match basically or if there is less communication ?
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whether there is or isn’t this sort of communication, trust nothing and take everything with a grain of salt
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Hey guys, how would you rank these? Appreciate any thought.
-University of Florida
-Georgetown
-SUNY downstate
-Rush University
-University of Florida
-Georgetown
-SUNY downstate
-Rush University
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Equivalent. Rank on your location preference only
Vivasan141
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Hello everyone, how would you rank these programs? I am an IMG looking for a strong clinical program. Willing to move anywhere. Appreciate your time.
- West Virginia University
- University of Texas medical school- Houston
-West Chester medical college
- SUNY Upstate
- Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai (NYC Health and Hospitals: Elmhurst) Program
- West Virginia University
- University of Texas medical school- Houston
-West Chester medical college
- SUNY Upstate
- Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai (NYC Health and Hospitals: Elmhurst) Program
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