Help! BU or Dartmouth?

[eagledoc2]

I've been fortunate enough to be accepted to both BU and Dartmouth, but I'm having a realllllly difficult time deciding which to choose. For some background, I'm from a suburb outside a medium-sized city and went to undergrad in an East Coast city. Here's where my thought process is at right now:

~Boston~
I loved the city of Boston, the P/F for the first 2 years, and the clinical training at BMC seems really intense, but gives you a great experience. There also seems to be a lot of opportunities for research and international electives (which I'm interested in pursuing), they're apparently incorporating a new sim center into the curriculum, and I'm sure that Boston is a great place to network in the medical world. However, I felt that the Dean and some other speakers were trying really hard to sell the school. I couldn't tell if it was true enthusiasm or if they were trying to hide something. It gave me a bad vibe and reminded me of some of the bad experiences I had in undergrad. Also, the students I met didn't seem to be overly enthusiastic about BU. They didn't seem unhappy either. I just couldn't really gauge how they felt. That vibe and how expensive everything in Boston are probably the biggest cons for me.

~Dartmouth~
The small class size is what really drew me to Dartmouth. I feel like I wouldn't get lost in the crowd there. I only got to meet a few students on my interview day, but they seemed pretty happy. Although, rumor has it that there's a larger population of non-trads/older students. Can anyone address that? There's P/F for 1st year (i think maybe 2nd year now?), you get to do clinical rotations all over the country (which could maybe give me a better idea of what part of the country I'd wanna do residency in), and DHMC looks like an amazing medical center. And I feel that going to an Ivy would be good for networking. I don't know if it'll be ready for this year's entering class, but the new Life Sciences building sounds like it's gonna be pretty impressive too. I'd say the biggest drawback for me is Dartmouth's location. Being from the Midwest/East Coast, the cold weather wouldn't bother me too much. I'm not sure how I feel about the rural location though. I'm pretty familiar with city life, but I'm not sure how I'll do in Hanover. Although, being out of a city might keep me more focused on schoolwork. From what I've heard, it seems like everyone is extremely outdoorsy and winter sports crazy. I love the outdoors/hiking/etc and I'd be open to trying out some winter sports, but I don't know if my twenty-something self could give up the city life for 4 years.

Overall, I'm sure I'll get an excellent medical education at either of these schools. Cost-wise, Dartmouth would be cheaper, but I'm not letting that completely influence my decision. I'd rather be happy where I attend school. I know it's almost pointless to compare match lists, but does anyone have any input on which school is better with USMLE prep/scores and residency matches? I have no idea what field I want to go into, and I don't have any specific part of the country for where I want to settle down. So I'd rather go to a school that opens doors to residencies all over the country.

Sorry for the long post, but I need some good advice! Thanks!

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[RogueUnicorn]

Hanover's a fun town, but I've been there about 3 times and already know all the spots... just a thought...

 

[BUMED2015]

I've been fortunate enough to be accepted to both BU and Dartmouth, but I'm having a realllllly difficult time deciding which to choose. For some background, I'm from a suburb outside a medium-sized city and went to undergrad in an East Coast city. Here's where my thought process is at right now:

~Boston~
I loved the city of Boston, the P/F for the first 2 years, and the clinical training at BMC seems really intense, but gives you a great experience. There also seems to be a lot of opportunities for research and international electives (which I'm interested in pursuing), they're apparently incorporating a new sim center into the curriculum, and I'm sure that Boston is a great place to network in the medical world. However, I felt that the Dean and some other speakers were trying really hard to sell the school. I couldn't tell if it was true enthusiasm or if they were trying to hide something. It gave me a bad vibe and reminded me of some of the bad experiences I had in undergrad. Also, the students I met didn't seem to be overly enthusiastic about BU. They didn't seem unhappy either. I just couldn't really gauge how they felt. That vibe and how expensive everything in Boston are probably the biggest cons for me.

~Dartmouth~
The small class size is what really drew me to Dartmouth. I feel like I wouldn't get lost in the crowd there. I only got to meet a few students on my interview day, but they seemed pretty happy. Although, rumor has it that there's a larger population of non-trads/older students. Can anyone address that? There's P/F for 1st year (i think maybe 2nd year now?), you get to do clinical rotations all over the country (which could maybe give me a better idea of what part of the country I'd wanna do residency in), and DHMC looks like an amazing medical center. And I feel that going to an Ivy would be good for networking. I don't know if it'll be ready for this year's entering class, but the new Life Sciences building sounds like it's gonna be pretty impressive too. I'd say the biggest drawback for me is Dartmouth's location. Being from the Midwest/East Coast, the cold weather wouldn't bother me too much. I'm not sure how I feel about the rural location though. I'm pretty familiar with city life, but I'm not sure how I'll do in Hanover. Although, being out of a city might keep me more focused on schoolwork. From what I've heard, it seems like everyone is extremely outdoorsy and winter sports crazy. I love the outdoors/hiking/etc and I'd be open to trying out some winter sports, but I don't know if my twenty-something self could give up the city life for 4 years.

Overall, I'm sure I'll get an excellent medical education at either of these schools. Cost-wise, Dartmouth would be cheaper, but I'm not letting that completely influence my decision. I'd rather be happy where I attend school. I know it's almost pointless to compare match lists, but does anyone have any input on which school is better with USMLE prep/scores and residency matches? I have no idea what field I want to go into, and I don't have any specific part of the country for where I want to settle down. So I'd rather go to a school that opens doors to residencies all over the country.

Sorry for the long post, but I need some good advice! Thanks!

I might be biased, but I would choose BU. My boss who is a director at a prestigious hospital told me to go to BU if i want to network with hospitals in the boston area. also, it seems as though bu is working really hard to revamp its curriculum and renovate its buildings. boston is also a really great city to be a student. i really hope we can be classmates.

 

[90minIPA]

A few random comments about DMS:

- Based on my experience at 2nd look, the non-trad rumour is bogus.
- DMS students frequently visit Boston/NYC (both are easily accessible via Dartmouth Coach and Boston is only a 2.5 hour drive away). If you need either city, you can visit on the weekends.
- Evidently Clincial rotations here are incredible.
- "Ivy league" doesn't mean much in medicine. "Top ten" would mean something, but not "Ivy League."
- That shiny, new Life Sciences building is for the undergrads.
- Monday quizzes are rough, and often the only downside students mentioned.

A few random comments about BU:

- Undergrad is way across town, so you can't really enjoy the perks without making the trek.
- Boston is an very expensive city to enjoy.. but if someone is helping you pay, it can be a lot of fun.
- A lot of students do research at MGH or Brigham so networking opporunities are a legitimate plus for BU if you like the boston hospitals.
- Housing is a pain in the ass in the part of town you'd want to live in.
- BMC is indeed awesome.

 

[futuredoc528]

A few random comments about DMS:

- Based on my experience at 2nd look, the non-trad rumour is bogus.
- DMS students frequently visit Boston/NYC (both are easily accessible via Dartmouth Coach and Boston is only a 2.5 hour drive away). If you need either city, you can visit on the weekends.
- Evidently Clincial rotations here are incredible.
- "Ivy league" doesn't mean much in medicine. "Top ten" would mean something, but not "Ivy League."
- That shiny, new Life Sciences building is for the undergrads.
- Monday quizzes are rough, and often the only downside students mentioned.

A few random comments about BU:

- Undergrad is way across town, so you can't really enjoy the perks without making the trek.
- Boston is an very expensive city to enjoy.. but if someone is helping you pay, it can be a lot of fun.
- A lot of students do research at MGH or Brigham so networking opporunities are a legitimate plus for BU if you like the boston hospitals.
- Housing is a pain in the ass in the part of town you'd want to live in.
- BMC is indeed awesome.

Sort of a double standard there eh? Willing to make a 2.5 hour drive to go to a bar in Boston, but not a 5 minute bus ride for the gym at the undergrad (which is one of the best college gyms anywhere fyi)

 

[90minIPA]

Sort of a double standard there eh? Willing to make a 2.5 hour drive to go to a bar in Boston, but not a 5 minute bus ride for the gym at the undergrad (which is one of the best college gyms anywhere fyi)

It's more like a 20-30 min bus ride each way, which can get old for some people. But I agree, fit rec is an absolute wonderland.

 

[eagledoc2]

A few random comments about DMS:

- Based on my experience at 2nd look, the non-trad rumour is bogus.
- DMS students frequently visit Boston/NYC (both are easily accessible via Dartmouth Coach and Boston is only a 2.5 hour drive away). If you need either city, you can visit on the weekends.
- Evidently Clincial rotations here are incredible.
- "Ivy league" doesn't mean much in medicine. "Top ten" would mean something, but not "Ivy League."
- That shiny, new Life Sciences building is for the undergrads.
- Monday quizzes are rough, and often the only downside students mentioned.

A few random comments about BU:

- Undergrad is way across town, so you can't really enjoy the perks without making the trek.
- Boston is an very expensive city to enjoy.. but if someone is helping you pay, it can be a lot of fun.
- A lot of students do research at MGH or Brigham so networking opporunities are a legitimate plus for BU if you like the boston hospitals.
- Housing is a pain in the ass in the part of town you'd want to live in.
- BMC is indeed awesome.

I've heard mixed things about the quizzes/exams. Are they always on Mondays and how often are they?

I didn't get a chance to go to Second Look since I was only recently accepted, but did they show you around the facilities more than on interview day? I got to see DHMC, but we didn't get to see much of the classrooms, labs, etc. So I'm not really sure what the learning environment is like.

 

[Porfirio]

Dartmouth is going through a lot of change right now.

The curriculum is changing a lot. They have proposed to do a "Master's degree" in the 4th year. The first and second year is being condensed. A lot of the class time is being removed, and group learning is being put in place. Tons of classes are being put online.

The medical students have complained a great deal about abuse from Residents/Fellows/Nurses, and the medical school is being more "pro-active" about stopping the abuse. The Dean was recently hired. A lot of big name researchers have left Dartmouth in the recent years (funding, greener pasture, retiring, etc.).


Other Highlights:

The hospital's population is very homogenous. The area outside the medical school is very rural. There are tons of things to do outdoors, if you like camping/hiking type stuff. The winter is harsher than in Boston.

If you aren't married or have a girlfriend/boyfriend moving with you, good luck finding someone. Hanover/Lebanon is very friendly to families, but very unfriendly to singles.

 

[eagledoc2]

thanks for all the responses so far! does anyone else have any advice?

 

[eagledoc2]

anyone else????

 

[pdiddy916]

you will have way more interaction with your classmates than the people of the city so make sure to choose where you felt like the student atmosphere is where you will fit in well or enjoy being in. When you go out (for the most part) it will be with your classmates.

I know for sure it takes about 30 minutes at least to get between the two BU campuses (to the gym) so I am not sure about the 5 minute bus ride comment. The area immediately surrounding BUSM is ghetto since its centered around a safety net hospital (as im sure you noticed during the interview) so if you live near you will pay 1000/month for a studio that won't be around much social life (no pubs or nice restaurants in that area) but if you move further you could be around a more vibrant area but it may cost a little more and more importantly take that much longer to get to campus (maybe 20 min walk or 15-20 min bus ride?) so consider that.

I've always been told if its that close/hard of a decision than you can't really go wrong either place and it's better to choose wherever is cheaper and where you think you can do the best in school. Outside factors should (social, etc) should weight least in the decision if the decision is a tough one. (Meaning if you think you can achieve the same academic success at both places and ultimately land the residency you desire then is it worth it to pay 75-100k more to be around more people who you won't be interacting tooo much with anyways?)

Good luck with the decision you can't go wrong either way! Let us know what you decide.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

you will have way more interaction with your classmates than the people of the city so make sure to choose where you felt like the student atmosphere is where you will fit in well or enjoy being in. When you go out (for the most part) it will be with your classmates.

I know for sure it takes about 30 minutes at least to get between the two BU campuses (to the gym) so I am not sure about the 5 minute bus ride comment. The area immediately surrounding BUSM is ghetto since its centered around a safety net hospital (as im sure you noticed during the interview) so if you live near you will pay 1000/month for a studio that won't be around much social life (no pubs or nice restaurants in that area) but if you move further you could be around a more vibrant area but it may cost a little more and more importantly take that much longer to get to campus (maybe 20 min walk or 15-20 min bus ride?) so consider that.

I've always been told if its that close/hard of a decision than you can't really go wrong either place and it's better to choose wherever is cheaper and where you think you can do the best in school. Outside factors should (social, etc) should weight least in the decision if the decision is a tough one. (Meaning if you think you can achieve the same academic success at both places and ultimately land the residency you desire then is it worth it to pay 75-100k more to be around more people who you won't be interacting tooo much with anyways?)

Good luck with the decision you can't go wrong either way! Let us know what you decide.

the south end of boston is neither ghetto nor lacking in fine dining/ bars

 

[pdiddy916]

the south end of boston is neither ghetto nor lacking in fine dining/ bars

I never said the entire south end was actually I never mentioned the south end, I said the area surrounding campus which is a portion of the south end. Most people would agree that the south end in comparison to other areas such as those area the Prudential Center.. Newburry St/Boylston are much more vibrant, have tons of restaurants and shops, museums, nice buildings, etc. Does the area around campus have any of that? No. Theres a reason why they call the south end "historic" when there are no museums, monuments, or anything else like that right near campus.... "historic" = old.

Living further away will allow you to mix with students from a variety of colleges where as living in the south end, most likely your neighbors will not even be students and not be young either, definitely not young professionals. In my particular apartment I did have BUSM students as well as residents so there are students taht live in that area for convenience sake (as I did as well), but after exploring Boston I quickly desired to move to a more lively area.

The only store in the campus area is literallyf CVS, nothing else really.

Whether or not it is "ghetto" is personal opinion I guess, but to me it was because I did not entirely feel safe walking around there at night, whereas, if you live near the Prudential or Worcester Square I wouldn't feel that way. You could easily walk to a pub in 2-3 minutes and walk back home, whereas in the south end you have to walk at least 10 minutes and in a more shady area.

I wish I had a heads up, and I think it's good to give one. Especially if you choose to go to BU to enjoy the city and the environment and mingle, then living right near campus is not the area for you. What pubs..restaurants (besides equator) are within 3-5 mins walking from campus? Please don't say Pizza Stop or Blunch. haha.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

10 minutes doesn't count as immediate area for you? you're that lazy? and to answer you original q, the gaslight is within 5 mins of campus, as is mike's diner, which is underrated.

this is without mentioning the obvious, that if you live 5 minutes north of the campus, you're within 5 minutes of all the ish on tremont st.

 

[eagledoc2]

Can any 3rd/4th years from either BU and Dartmouth comment on their clerkship experiences? I've heard BU's clinical training is pretty intense, so I've been wondering if anyone could talk about that specifically.

 

[pdiddy916]

10 minutes doesn't count as immediate area for you? you're that lazy? and to answer you original q, the gaslight is within 5 mins of campus, as is mike's diner, which is underrated.

this is without mentioning the obvious, that if you live 5 minutes north of the campus, you're within 5 minutes of all the ish on tremont st.

I'm not sure why your set on replying to info that really isn't pertinent for eagledoc to make a decision whether on BU vs Darthmouth. It was a small aspect of what I was talking about. The whole point was living near campus would not be a good idea for someone who is wanting to be in a social area. If you disagree, then that's another opinion for eagle to think about.

Either way, I am not lazy, I walked pretty much everywhere, regularly to Boylston (once again because Mike's dinner and gaslight couldn't satisfy on a daily basis). You named 2 places whereas if you lived in a better area you could name 50.

all the ish on tremont st. <-- so now you admit that somewhere like tremont has tons of options..more than what the area immediately surrounding campus has to offer. Walking from campus.tremont would be more than 10mins ..but not more than 15... its not something I mind to do..but in the snow its not something a lot of people would want to walk to just to eat and come back. Thus, going back to my original point that living in that area you wouldnt have to worry about walking that far in the cold to grab lunch or a brew.

P.S. Eagledoc ..it appears RogueUnicorn is a BUSM student.. factor that into your decision as far as the type of students you will be interacting with! haha.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

I'm not sure why your set on replying to info that really isn't pertinent for eagledoc to make a decision whether on BU vs Darthmouth. It was a small aspect of what I was talking about. The whole point was living near campus would not be a good idea for someone who is wanting to be in a social area. If you disagree, then that's another opinion for eagle to think about.

Either way, I am not lazy, I walked pretty much everywhere, regularly to Boylston (once again because Mike's dinner and gaslight couldn't satisfy on a daily basis). You named 2 places whereas if you lived in a better area you could name 50.

all the ish on tremont st. <-- so now you admit that somewhere like tremont has tons of options..more than what the area immediately surrounding campus has to offer. Walking from campus.tremont would be more than 10mins ..but not more than 15... its not something I mind to do..but in the snow its not something a lot of people would want to walk to just to eat and come back. Thus, going back to my original point that living in that area you wouldnt have to worry about walking that far in the cold to grab lunch or a brew.

P.S. Eagledoc ..it appears RogueUnicorn is a BUSM student.. factor that into your decision as far as the type of students you will be interacting with! haha.

i don't know if the math is confusing you, but even with your "5 min walk" as the immediate area, you can still live in the immediate area and be very close to the obviously more happening street that is tremont st.

i also don't know what greener pastures you come from, but unless you live right on top of a commercial area, which you deem better (and trust me, they're not if you're trying to go to sleep at 1am on a friday), you're never going to have anywhere close to "50" options in boston.

and you're right, i do have a differing opinion in this matter, hence the back and forth. that's generally what two people who disagree do.

 

[BUMED2015]

you will have way more interaction with your classmates than the people of the city so make sure to choose where you felt like the student atmosphere is where you will fit in well or enjoy being in. When you go out (for the most part) it will be with your classmates.

I know for sure it takes about 30 minutes at least to get between the two BU campuses (to the gym) so I am not sure about the 5 minute bus ride comment. The area immediately surrounding BUSM is ghetto since its centered around a safety net hospital (as im sure you noticed during the interview) so if you live near you will pay 1000/month for a studio that won't be around much social life (no pubs or nice restaurants in that area) but if you move further you could be around a more vibrant area but it may cost a little more and more importantly take that much longer to get to campus (maybe 20 min walk or 15-20 min bus ride?) so consider that.

I've always been told if its that close/hard of a decision than you can't really go wrong either place and it's better to choose wherever is cheaper and where you think you can do the best in school. Outside factors should (social, etc) should weight least in the decision if the decision is a tough one. (Meaning if you think you can achieve the same academic success at both places and ultimately land the residency you desire then is it worth it to pay 75-100k more to be around more people who you won't be interacting tooo much with anyways?)

Good luck with the decision you can't go wrong either way! Let us know what you decide.

Regarding social life, it doesn't matter if you aren't physically near other schools. It's not like you're going to be partying/socializing during the weekdays anyways. Being in Boston (regardless of where you live in Boston) provides you with a great social atmosphere in the sense that there are two other medical schools/dental schools and tons of other grad programs nearby. Thus, there are options to go to inter-collegiate mixers if you want to go during the weekends.

Also, I have heard that the clinical clerkships at BU are really great. I have talked to many upperclassmen before making my decision, and i have heard that they really make an effort to make you feel as though you're part of the team. The attendings and residents really make an effort to teach you and you're expected to do a lot. The patients that you will meet will also be incredibly diverse and you will see conditions that you will not see at any other hospital.

 

[90minIPA]

the south end of boston is neither ghetto nor lacking in fine dining/ bars

To be fair, most would consider BUMC on the boarder of the South End and Roxbury, which is essentially the violent crime epicenter of Boston. Considering BU's proximity to both Roxbury and the South Bay Prison, most Boston residents in their mid-to-late-20's consider the area pretty "ghetto."

But as it's already been discussed, there's a variety of perfectly safe housing directly north of the medical campus.

 

[pdiddy916]

To be fair, most would consider BUMC on the boarder of the South End and Roxbury, which is essentially the violent crime epicenter of Boston. Considering BU's proximity to both Roxbury and the South Bay Prison, most Boston residents in their mid-to-late-20's consider the area pretty "ghetto."

But as it's already been discussed, there's a variety of perfectly safe housing directly north of the medical campus.

Thank you! That was simply the point I was trying to make. It's better to be realistic about the area instead of trying to make it something it's not. Like I said, I lived there for a year and it wasn't bad enough to want to move mid-lease...but if someone told me before then I would have lived somewhere north of the Prudential to start with.

Just move north and with a 15-20min bus ride you'll be fine!