Don't go to Dental School

[Firm]

So, you suggest we do what instead?

The answer is different for everyone. Market disruption is your friend and ultimately allowed me to succeed. You all are young and understand changing technology better that older folks with money who pay people to handle their technology. Businesses like Uber and AirBNB are the model that you need to look at. The fact that things are changing so fast will either mean disaster or opportunity depending on your mindset. You have to figure out how you are going to be different and make it work. Why would any patient see you vs any other dentist? That question goes for any business. Once I answered that for myself, things fell in line.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Hyunin1210]

there are no jobs, they are looking for any work they can get

Could you also tell me what area he or she is looking for a job in? Can't imagine a specialist who cannot find a job especially with practices going in the direction of having multiple specialties in house

 

[Miley Cyrus.]

The answer is different for everyone. Market disruption is your friend and ultimately allowed me to succeed. You all are young and understand changing technology better that older folks with money who pay people to handle their technology. Businesses like Uber and AirBNB are the model that you need to look at. The fact that things are changing so fast will either mean disaster or opportunity depending on your mindset. You have to figure out how you are going to be different and make it work. Why would any patient see you vs any other dentist? That question goes for any business. Once I answered that for myself, things fell in line.

Where are you based? Like general region, don't have to be specific if you don't want? Southeast?

 

[Firm]

Where are you based? Like general region, don't have to be specific if you don't want? Southeast?

Southeast

 

[bsmcga0]

Could you also tell me what area he or she is looking for a job in? Can't imagine a specialist who cannot find a job especially with practices going in the direction of having multiple specialties in house

texas

practices that hire an ortho 1-2 days/week don't keep the ortho really busy, not compared to an ortho getting referrals from several offices. Unless the office has several dentists

 

[EasTexan]

I love when people say that $300-$500k could be better invested somewhere else. Where am I supposed to get that much money to invest?

Hell, I'm 30 and if I added up my income from my entire lifetime, I probably wouldn't even have made $300K yet.

I do agree that anything over $300K is too much to borrow for school.

Just walk in to any bank and tell them you want to "start a business!". I'm sure they'll be more than willing to loan you $300,000!...

Yea, not understanding the "you'd be better off just starting a business or investing the money" angle...

 

[strep mutans]

Just walk in to any bank and tell them you want to "stat a business!". I'm sure they'll be more than willing to loan you $300,000!...

Yea, not understanding the "you'd be better off just starting a business or investing the money" angle...

+1

 

[Orthothai]

Just walk in to any bank and tell them you want to "start a business!". I'm sure they'll be more than willing to loan you $300,000!...

Yea, not understanding the "you'd be better off just starting a business or investing the money" angle...

The point is that going into dental and ending up with 300 or 500K is not a sound investment.

The full explanation for the one needing more direction is :
If your are looking for a reliable investment in the future : DO NOT get a loan to get into dental with a carrier perspective of opening a classic private practice. The same energy (the one necessary to get accepted into dental and taking loans) can be better invested somewhere else. Consider a change of path, make the appropriate study than when you have the appropriate knowledge/skill go to a bank to take a loan to start your business.

 

[Cello]

Do not look at what the situation is now for dentist with implanted practice and loan payed, but what it will in 5 years when you graduates.
In France like in the US the dentist had a very good time 20 years ago and a good time 10 years ago.
The thing is if you go to dentaltown the one speaking with confidence of their practice are the one with experience, meaning that their own their practice, translation they are not freshly graduated. Same thing on the French forum a not so "newbie" in private practice is at least 35 years old , the "experienced" have at least 45 years old.
So yes if you listen to dentist working for 20 years with every loan payed and their practice adapted to the new environment everything rock, from their point of view the overproduction of dentist is a good thing. Well establish practice will not be affected (the competition being at the level of the one starting practice and having to develop a patient base so not really the big reconstruction work, their skill set is also well develop so they can capt more patient than the less experienced), and if you have some cash on the side, all this new graduated in debt will be the perfect work force for expanding.

Their professional reality will not be yours.

You're right, it won't, because it took them 20 years to get there... It wasn't their professional reality fresh out of school either. Part of the problem here on SDN (and even on Dental Town) is the number of entitled newly graduated dentists who think they should be driving a Porsche 5 years out of school and purchasing a lake house. If that is your expectation, then you will be disappointed. But to suggest that 20 or 30 years in practice can't make a person very well-off in this field is to be completely disconnected from reality. The average income in this country is $50,000. How many of the dentists posting here are making less than that?

If your are looking for a reliable investment in the future : DO NOT get a loan to get into dental with a carrier perspective of opening a classic private practice. The same energy (the one necessary to get accepted into dental and taking loans) can be better invested somewhere else. Consider a change of path, make the appropriate study than when you have the appropriate knowledge/skill go to a bank to take a loan to start your business.

If we invested in what? You do realize that virtually every professional career is chock-full of people with the same negative pronouncements about their discipline, right? (See my earlier post) So what do you propose we do? Become personal trainers and open a gym? Do you know how many people do this and find themselves bankrupt? Maybe we can learn to code and open our own web development firm. Again, do you know how many people try this only to see themselves into years of financial insolvency? You are far more likely to succeed in dentistry than you are opening a restaurant, a store, etc. Also, you all keep talking about corporations as if they only affect dentistry. Guys, dentistry was one of the last holdouts against corporatization! Look at any other industry, they are all being overrun by corporations! You won't magically escape that reality by simply "doing something else."

 

[allantois]

You're right, it won't, because it took them 20 years to get there... It wasn't their professional reality fresh out of school either. Part of the problem here on SDN (and even on Dental Town) is the number of entitled newly graduated dentists who think they should be driving a Porsche 5 years out of school and purchasing a lake house. If that is your expectation, then you will be disappointed. But to suggest that 20 or 30 years in practice can't make a person very well-off in this field is to be completely disconnected from reality. The average income in this country is $50,000. How many of the dentists posting here are making less than that?




If we invested in what? You do realize that virtually every professional career is chock-full of people with the same negative pronouncements about their discipline, right? (See my earlier post) So what do you propose we do? Become personal trainers and open a gym? Do you know how many people do this and find themselves bankrupt? Maybe we can learn to code and open our own web development firm. Again, do you know how many people try this only to see themselves into years of financial insolvency. You are far more likely to succeed in dentistry than you are opening a restaurant, a store, etc. Also, you all keep talking about corporations as if they only affect dentistry. Guys, dentistry was one of the last holdouts against corporatization! Look at any other industry, they are all being overrun by corporations! You won't magically escape that reality by simply "doing something else."

All good points, I just want to point out that 50k is an average family income. An average personal income is less than 30k.

 

[oralcare123]

I am impress to see how well Firm managed to stay cool and composed given some of the answer.
Amazing that so many poster seems to thinks that its goal is to discourage pre dental in order to have less (future ) competition.
The slot open by the one choosing not to go for dental will be taken by other applicant anyway.

The big new thing is corporate, corporate practice will be VERY happy with too many dentist. Too many means that they can lower salary and work condition. It is exactly what happen in Spain, private school began forming way to many dentist (multiplying the number by no less than three ) ten years ago. Corporate practice started to appear everywhere, the results is an unemployment rate of only 30% for the dentist (only 30% because given the high number of dentist is should be more 70%) but a salary of 800 to 1000$/month in corporate practice and dentist fighting for the slot.

I do not except to see the situation develop to such an extensive level as in the US, but what you can predict in ALL scenario is a huge increase in corporate practice who will profit of all the freshly licence dentist and specialist who have to work not matter what to pay their debt. Unfortunately the increase of corporate practice density will make it harder to start a private practice.

Where is the spelling police?

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

.

 

[oralcare123]

Nowhere to be found, but to be fair if English wasn't my first language and I was on an anonymous internet forum I wouldn't be too careful with spelling either. I can't blame this guy at all. He also has better spelling and grammar than a lot of kids who graduate from public school systems in America anyways.

I only mention it as a joke, because I am frequently attacked for my spelling.
I think the only thing no one said so far is that people need to be aware of the high costs of education and prepare for it. Parents must establish education savings accounts, of course if they are the responsible ones

 

[Carbohydrates]

I only mention it as a joke, because I am frequently attacked for my spelling.
I think the only thing no one said so far is that people need to be aware of the high costs of education and prepare for it. Parents must establish education savings accounts, of course if they are the responsible ones

Oh great. Turn out my parents are supper irresponsible because let me tell you, they aint having any education saving acc and whatnotz

 

[nonociceptors]

I only mention it as a joke, because I am frequently attacked for my spelling.
I think the only thing no one said so far is that people need to be aware of the high costs of education and prepare for it. Parents must establish education savings accounts, of course if they are the responsible ones

It is completely unfair to call parents irresponsible if they don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars saved for graduate school. That's total bull**** so I have to call you out on that.

Debate about undergrad all you want, as I'm sure most parents (when possible) try to save something for their kids. If not, there are plenty of options for college that don't require you to accumulate debt. CC-->4 year uni, and if your parents are entirely unable to save any money, you'd more than likely qualify for financial aid in the form of grants.

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

,

 

[nonociceptors]

I agree it is unfair to call parents out for not having hundreds of thousands of dollars saved, but I don't think it's irresponsible for them to have a few hundred to maybe a few thousand saved to at least help with DAT, application costs, interview travel etc. Yes, it is total bull to expect parents to cover any of the tuition of dental school, but everybody can save at different levels. 18 years of raising a kid gives enough time to at least save a few hundred to a few thousand dollars to cover miscellaneous costs, for MOST and certainly NOT ALL parents.

Oh definitely, I just interpreted the post as the parents needing to anticipate covering their child's tuition, cost of living, etc.

 

[ajj70]

Just walk in to any bank and tell them you want to "start a business!". I'm sure they'll be more than willing to loan you $300,000!...

Yea, not understanding the "you'd be better off just starting a business or investing the money" angle...

Banks are not the only lenders and I guess it depends on where you bank. I've already talked to several bankers in my area about the process of setting up a dental practice and none of them seemed to have an issue with the likely debt load because they know how much dentists in my area make.

 

[Orthothai]

Banks are not the only lenders and I guess it depends on where you bank. I've already talked to several bankers in my area about the process of setting up a dental practice and none of them seemed to have an issue with the likely debt load because they know how much dentists in my area make.

The issue is not about the bank accepting to loan you, the issue is that the bank WILL accept to loan you possibly to much.
They know that you will make money and that EVENTUALLY you will pay your debt off (some will not of course but enough will so that the whole operation is profitable).

We are pointing here to the life you will have in order to pay this debt, and how long you will have to live it.

 

[oralcare123]

Oh great. Turn out my parents are supper irresponsible because let me tell you, they aint having any education saving acc and whatnotz

O, chillax already. If your education was not their top priority and being a dentist is your decision - I really do not care. But, if parents pushing you towards this kind of very expensive education, they have to contribute. Plain and simple. Otherwise there would be no end to complaints about how expensive it is and poor,poor me posts
Times are changing and mentality has to change as well

 

[oralcare123]

It is completely unfair to call parents irresponsible if they don't have hundreds of thousands of dollars saved for graduate school. That's total bull**** so I have to call you out on that.

Debate about undergrad all you want, as I'm sure most parents (when possible) try to save something for their kids. If not, there are plenty of options for college that don't require you to accumulate debt. CC-->4 year uni, and if your parents are entirely unable to save any money, you'd more than likely qualify for financial aid in the form of grants.

Since when "contribute" started to mean "having hundreds of thousands of dollars" Do not put words into my mouth

 

[oralcare123]

Oh definitely, I just interpreted the post as the parents needing to anticipate covering their child's tuition, cost of living, etc.

You are a dreamer

 

[Carbohydrates]

O, chillax already. If your education was not their top priority and being a dentist is your decision - I really do not care. But, if parents pushing you towards this kind of very expensive education, they have to contribute. Plain and simple. Otherwise there would be no end to complaints about how expensive it is and poor,poor me posts
Times are changing and mentality has to change as well

I'm out

 

[gucci]

I'm out

*british accent* @oralcare123 you've been exposed as a right knob-head

 

[THS]

 

[Orthothai]

All good points, I just want to point out that 50k is an average family income. An average personal income is less than 30k.

And what is the average income ten years after graduation of someone having at least four years university training and who has to spend several 100K to start his business ?
If you compare with the average population you will come ahead in all case.

 

[CaliDDS1986]

LOL what a friggin hilarious thread. Props to the ortho guys for saying how truly crappy their field is nowadays. I'm a GP and did debate going into ortho back in the day. Who wouldn't? Everyone in the dental field does. The works easier, no emergencies, and the pay was better. The reason why most guys don't feel bad for them is how generally entitled the ortho kids in dental school were. Now you couldn't pay me enough to get into ortho. Bottom line is everything Firm said is true. There's no jobs in ortho. There's too many of em and not enough patients to go around. They also just announced a new 18 per year resident program in Atlanta this week, which most likely explains the timing of this thread.

On to the GP side of things. Being a dentist is super stressful and not for the shy or introverted. The work is hard and you have to earn your paycheck. Salaries are stagnant due to the increase in grads in most areas. You really have to expand your skill set if you want to be successful as a GP. Whether that is endo, implants, or ortho the education doesn't stop after dental school. Plus you will more than likely spend a couple years after school in crap jobs getting your speed and skillset up. Dentistry is a business at the end of the day, you have to have more money coming in then going out. Insurance also isn't helping. But when these ortho guys tell you to go into another career, I say where? Every field sucks now unless you invent an App or some new age tech startup. Medicine sucks, law sucks, dentistry sucks haha. My advice: strap on your boots predents because you'll work like dogs to earn your $, but at least you'll have a job unlike ortho.

 

[Incis0r]

I believe the human population is now reaching its carrying capacity, after decades of exponential growth.

Its time for natural selection and survival of the fittest to take over.

 

[Bernie Sanders]

Never mind

 

[OB LAGER]

It's not worth it. You'll end up graduating with $500,000+ in debt and will spend your entire life working in a corporation paying it off. The dental ship has sailed. You have been warned.

not so if you got parents rich enough to pay all the tuition

 

[ClosetNerd828]

I believe the human population is now reaching its carrying capacity, after decades of exponential growth.

Its time for natural selection and survival of the fittest to take over.

I wish. But for now I will stay in my safe place.

 

[allantois]

Oh definitely, I just interpreted the post as the parents needing to anticipate covering their child's tuition, cost of living, etc.

As it stands now, I would send my kids to a public school, public college and instead save for their professional school

That is of course if I dig myself out of this dental school financial hole first

 

[nonociceptors]

O, chillax already. If your education was not their top priority and being a dentist is your decision - I really do not care. But, if parents pushing you towards this kind of very expensive education, they have to contribute. Plain and simple. Otherwise there would be no end to complaints about how expensive it is and poor,poor me posts
Times are changing and mentality has to change as well

Since when "contribute" started to mean "having hundreds of thousands of dollars" Do not put words into my mouth

Well when you leave it so vague, don't blame me for making assumptions. Ok, so what about contributing a few hundred dollars? A few thousand? A few hundred thousand? At what point would you say your parents are no longer considered irresponsible?

You are a dreamer

Gotta dream big

As it stands now, I would send my kids to a public school, public college and instead save for their professional school

That is of course if I dig myself out of this dental school financial hole first

Yeah, going into debt for undergrad if you have plans or pursuing additional education of any kind just seems stupid to me. This goes for everything in life, but is especially important for high school kids going into college to remember: what you do matters more than where you do it. Unfortunately, that message is lost on them most of the time as they just look for prestige. It's even more unfortunate when that thinking follows you everywhere throughout life.

 

[darknightzzz]

LOL what a friggin hilarious thread. Props to the ortho guys for saying how truly crappy their field is nowadays. I'm a GP and did debate going into ortho back in the day. Who wouldn't? Everyone in the dental field does. The works easier, no emergencies, and the pay was better. The reason why most guys don't feel bad for them is how generally entitled the ortho kids in dental school were. Now you couldn't pay me enough to get into ortho. Bottom line is everything Firm said is true. There's no jobs in ortho. There's too many of em and not enough patients to go around. They also just announced a new 18 per year resident program in Atlanta this week, which most likely explains the timing of this thread.

On to the GP side of things. Being a dentist is super stressful and not for the shy or introverted. The work is hard and you have to earn your paycheck. Salaries are stagnant due to the increase in grads in most areas. You really have to expand your skill set if you want to be successful as a GP. Whether that is endo, implants, or ortho the education doesn't stop after dental school. Plus you will more than likely spend a couple years after school in crap jobs getting your speed and skillset up. Dentistry is a business at the end of the day, you have to have more money coming in then going out. Insurance also isn't helping. But when these ortho guys tell you to go into another career, I say where? Every field sucks now unless you invent an App or some new age tech startup. Medicine sucks, law sucks, dentistry sucks haha. My advice: strap on your boots predents because you'll work like dogs to earn your $, but at least you'll have a job unlike ortho.

Thanks for taking the time to comment on this thread.

So your point is, you will work like a dog in all fields to earn money so better be dentistry where u love to be a tooth mechanic correct? LOL

 

[darknightzzz]

As it stands now, I would send my kids to a public school, public college and instead save for their professional school

That is of course if I dig myself out of this dental school financial hole first

yep, went to public high school, public college, and 0 undergrad debt. I agree with ur point. but my 18 year old self would not choose this school if I got into better and more prestigious schools. it is just how the fate plays out.

 

[Orthothai]

Every field sucks now unless you invent an App or some new age tech startup. Medicine sucks, law sucks, dentistry sucks haha. My advice: strap on your boots predents because you'll work like dogs to earn your $, but at least you'll have a job unlike ortho.

I know the situation for orthodontist on four continent and they are fare from being jobless. In case of overproduction of GP the specialist are also the last one to be hit.
Ortho or other specialities are good but less good in the US or Australia than what is used to be in the past and not offering the same return on investment.
As for every job sucking that is not true it just happen that private insurance and corporate realized that they were in a position to take of share of the earning of the medical profession (with medical network and corporate practice), you add to that, that the university both in medical and law school open to much slot to make money and you have a situation where there is less job for everybody with the average earning for each patient going also down.

Personally I did not knew about this thing when I signed for dental (nobody in the medical field in my family and no loan to take as the studies are paid by the stat), as I knew I would have look in other field.

 

[CaliDDS1986]

Thanks for taking the time to comment on this thread.

So your point is, you will work like a dog in all fields to earn money so better be dentistry where u love to be a tooth mechanic correct? LOL

Well, for success I don't care what field your in, you have to work hard. I'm also not saying dentistry is any better than any other field. Just be prepared to work hard, if not harder, than you did in dental school. Nothing is handed to you on a silver plate anymore. Some people that go into this field think they are owed something by getting through dental school. Once you graduate the real hard work begins, and for some people that is a difficult pill to swallow.

 

[CaliDDS1986]

I know the situation for orthodontist on four continent and they are fare from being jobless. In case of overproduction of GP the specialist are also the last one to be hit.
Ortho or other specialities are good but less good in the US or Australia than what is used to be in the past and not offering the same return on investment.
As for every job sucking that is not true it just happen that private insurance and corporate realized that they were in a position to take of share of the earning of the medical profession (with medical network and corporate practice), you add to that, that the university both in medical and law school open to much slot to make money and you have a situation where there is less job for everybody with the average earning for each patient going also down.

Personally I did not knew about this thing when I signed for dental (nobody in the medical field in my family and no loan to take as the studies are paid by the stat), as I knew I would have look in other field.

All I can comment on is the situation of the dental job market in the US. Ortho is in the sh*tter for new grads that can't find jobs. General dentistry is tough, but you'll always be able to find a job as an associate. It may be crap where you see 30+ patients a day, but you'll be getting paid at least something to pay back your loan money. I'd rather be getting money then sitting at home staring at my MS certificate wondering why I can't find a job.

 

[ajj70]

As it stands now, I would send my kids to a public school, public college and instead save for their professional school

That is of course if I dig myself out of this dental school financial hole first

Wow, if I followed this advice I'd have 30K in student loan debt...public high school, private college $0.00 student loan debt!

 

[cacajuate]

Let this thread die already.

 

[Firm]

LOL what a friggin hilarious thread. Props to the ortho guys for saying how truly crappy their field is nowadays. I'm a GP and did debate going into ortho back in the day. Who wouldn't? Everyone in the dental field does. The works easier, no emergencies, and the pay was better. The reason why most guys don't feel bad for them is how generally entitled the ortho kids in dental school were. Now you couldn't pay me enough to get into ortho. Bottom line is everything Firm said is true. There's no jobs in ortho. There's too many of em and not enough patients to go around. They also just announced a new 18 per year resident program in Atlanta this week, which most likely explains the timing of this thread.

On to the GP side of things. Being a dentist is super stressful and not for the shy or introverted. The work is hard and you have to earn your paycheck. Salaries are stagnant due to the increase in grads in most areas. You really have to expand your skill set if you want to be successful as a GP. Whether that is endo, implants, or ortho the education doesn't stop after dental school. Plus you will more than likely spend a couple years after school in crap jobs getting your speed and skillset up. Dentistry is a business at the end of the day, you have to have more money coming in then going out. Insurance also isn't helping. But when these ortho guys tell you to go into another career, I say where? Every field sucks now unless you invent an App or some new age tech startup. Medicine sucks, law sucks, dentistry sucks haha. My advice: strap on your boots predents because you'll work like dogs to earn your $, but at least you'll have a job unlike ortho.

Good post. Ortho is terrible for a new grad. I don't understand residents who think that magically it will work out for them. Unless you already have somebody's practice that you will be taking over, (not going in but taking over) you most likely will be practicing general dentistry. As far as being a GP, I'm getting my info from recent grads (we host a happy hour for juniors and seniors at the state dental school) and reading posts on dentaltown. I just couldn't imagine spending 8 years in school racking up $300,000-500,000 in debt just to work in a corporation 6 days/week in order to pay that off. Law sucks. At least medicine and pharmacy take care of you with some guarantees. Nothing is given in dentistry. Dentistry has always been a $hitty job that pays well, with time off and autonomy. Take those away and what is left? Might be better to get a high paying job at a Fortune 500 company.

 

[DocVaquero]

Good post. Ortho is terrible for a new grad. I don't understand residents who think that magically it will work out for them. Unless you already have somebody's practice that you will be taking over, (not going in but taking over) you most likely will be practicing general dentistry. As far as being a GP, I'm getting my info from recent grads (we host a happy hour for juniors and seniors at the state dental school) and reading posts on dentaltown. I just couldn't imagine spending 8 years in school racking up $300,000-500,000 in debt just to work in a corporation 6 days/week in order to pay that off. Law sucks. At least medicine and pharmacy take care of you with some guarantees. Nothing is given in dentistry. Dentistry has always been a $hitty job that pays well, with time off and autonomy. Take those away and what is left? Might be better to get a high paying job at a Fortune 500 company.

You're right. I'm going to forget about dentistry and walk right into Apple and ask them to give me a 6 figure job. That will be suuuuper easy...

 

[Firm]

You're right. I'm going to forget about dentistry and walk right into Apple and ask them to give me a 6 figure job. That will be suuuuper easy...

Nice sarcasm but if you think about it by the time you graduate in 2020 and find a job that you can take home 6 figures without massive student loans (2030-2035), you could have had that job at apple making 6 figures without the debt.

 

[Cello]

Might be better to get a high paying job at a Fortune 500 company.

You say that like it's easy to do... I had a friend who worked for Goldman. He said it was the most stressful job he could imagine. He was working nearly 100 hours per week as an analyst, and he told me that they eat their young at that company. Dude was a stud, he was climbing the ladder and doing well, but he couldn't handle the fact that all he did was make rich people even richer.

He quit to become a Navy SEAL.

Having also dated a girl who was a Goldman associate, she confirmed that their corporate culture is extremely difficult. She quit to take a job which paid her just over half of her Goldman salary because she couldn't stand being a "cog" in the corporate machine. On the other hand, I have a friend whose wife LOVES working for Goldman and is now a regional manager. It's not entirely rosy, or entirely bad, careers are whatever you make of them and what fits with your goals and personality.

As I started out in computer science, many of my friends are in that field. My buddy who was the most successful of us all ended up at HP his first day out of college. He was making $90k in the Bay Area (most of us started at around $60k or $70k). Years out, a senior programmer, and with an unbelievable skill set which puts most programmers to shame, he is still making around $150k to live in a very expensive area (which is where most of the big tech firms are). If he wanted to work elsewhere with all of his experience he would probably earn a bit less.

 

[Firm]

You say that like it's easy to do... I had a friend who worked for Goldman. He said it was the most stressful job he could imagine. He was working nearly 100 hours per week as an analyst, and he told me that they eat their young at that company. Dude was a stud, he was climbing the ladder and doing well, but he couldn't handle the fact that all he did was make rich people even richer.

He quit to become a Navy SEAL.

Having also dated a girl who was a Goldman associate, she confirmed that their corporate culture is extremely difficult. She quit to take a job which paid her just over half of her Goldman salary because she couldn't stand being a "cog" in the corporate machine. On the other hand, I have a friend whose wife LOVES working for Goldman and is now a regional manager. It's not entirely rosy, or entirely bad, careers are whatever you make of them and what fits with your goals and personality.

As I started out in computer science, many of my friends are in that field. My buddy who was the most successful of us all ended up at HP his first day out of college. He was making $90k in the Bay Area (most of us started at around $60k or $70k). Years out, a senior programmer, and with an unbelievable skill set which puts most programmers to shame, he is still making around $150k to live in a very expensive area (which is where most of the big tech firms are). If he wanted to work elsewhere with all of his experience he would probably earn a bit less.

I don't think there is an easy answer. Dentistry is definitely not easy. I bet none of your examples come with a $3-4,000/mo student loan to pay off. That's stress.

 

[fancymylotus]

You're right. I'm going to forget about dentistry and walk right into Apple and ask them to give me a 6 figure job. That will be suuuuper easy...

Damn, I should have done that!

 

[darknightzzz]

00,000 in debt just to work in a corporation 6 days/week in order to pay that off. Law sucks. At least medicine and pharmacy take care of you with some guarantees. Nothing is given in dentistry. Dentistry has always been a $hitty job that pays well, with time off and autonomy. Take those away and what is left? Might be better to get a high paying job at a Fortune 500 company.

LOL you think pharmacy is still a good field? you are clearly misinformed. Medicine, yes, but bunch of docs still complain about insurance. Pharmacy. I suggest you travel to pharmacy sdn or pre pharmacy sdn wonder land to see what is going on there.

 

[charlestweed]

I'm not going to tell you what to do. I myself went to a private school and racked up 400k+. I'm on track to pay it off within 5 years but it's taken a mental and physical toll on me. logging in 50-60 hour weeks is not fun. in order to make 250-350k, it has to be volume based. I make more money than I ever thought I would. Except it all goes to loans. By the time it's paid off, I will be so burnt out. I'm already burnt out 18 months in. But I refuse to sit around and have this debt hanging over my head my whole life. If you can get into a state school, you'll be fine. Plenty of money to be made but don't expect some luxurious private practice associate ship. I'm lucky... I work at a private practice that sees quite a few medicaid along with ppo/cash. it's a good mix. I've learned the fresh out of school... the high end patients will eat you alive. they can sense inexperience. my advice is go to a cheap school and work at a place with high income and volume to increase your speed. do that for a year or two. it wont be what you pictured perhaps but it will set you up later for a higher end office. if you want to a FFS or high end ppo office right away, except a much lower salary. anyways, my goal isn't tell you what to do, just giving you my experience. my story is one story. i have plenty of friends that are dentists that are struggling to pay off their 400k debt. they weren't as lucky to find an office like i was so their story is a little different. Short point... dentistry is very competitive. first year or two will be tough coming out. lots of debt. go to the cheapest school. if you're stuck with only options at private schools... take a long hard look at reapplying. You'll dig yourself a very big hole in hopes of finding a very high paying job which is not easy to find.

edit: sorry for the typos and incoherent sentences. i'm typing extremely fast in between patients.

If you work hard like this poster, you should be fine. Don’t go to dental school, if you don't think you can do like what this poster is doing right now. Unlike many of his colleagues, who’d rather be jobless than working long hours and on weekends, this poster refuses to sit around and lets the debt control his life even with the back pain he is experiencing . When he’s ready to set up his own office in the future, I am sure he’ll do very well. Having an associate job at a busy office should help him gain more clinical experience than the dentists, who choose to work at slower pace offices such as community health clinics or one-doctor offices.

 

[fancymylotus]

Invest your teeth money wisely, become a good business person, buy commercial real estate.

But wtf do I know about anything anyway

 

[bzahedi]

Invest your teeth money wisely, become a good business person, buy commercial real estate.

But wtf do I know about anything anyway

You may be on to something