2016-2017 Washington University in St. Louis Application Thread

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CMVpromoter said:
Just curious, what would your total estimated debt from attending WashU be?
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About the national median debt (~190k). Not unreasonable or anything, just surprising because a different similar school's need-based aid would put me at only ~125.
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Tutor526 said:
I just looked in last year's thread and there was only a single post-interview rejection post - in July!
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I want to be optimistic, it just doesn't seem likely that we could possibly be waiting on anything other than rejection! Maybe no one reported the rejections last year...
 
efle said:
About the national median debt (~190k). Not unreasonable or anything, just surprising because a different similar school's need-based aid would put me at only ~125.
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Are you okay with taking on that amount of debt? I don't know how I feel about it :(
 
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geauxtigers21 said:
I want to be optimistic, it just doesn't seem likely that we could possibly be waiting on anything other than rejection! Maybe no one reported the rejections last year...
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I remember Dean Ratts mentioning they engage in active decision after the interview, so it's also likely they haven't gotten to your file if you interviewed recently...or at the very least still under consideration.
 
efle said:
As opposed to not attending med school ??? Or do you mean am I okay paying an extra 70k for WashU?
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The extra 70k for WUSM.

However, I wouldn't say $190k v $120k, is the same pill to swallow as $70k vs $0..

sigh the reality of debt is very frustrating.
 
Ha! I wish I had those options. I'm going to have about $300k debt (with cost of living and everything) where I've been accepted, assuming I don't get into Wash U off the wait list. Apparently my retired dad and 30k/year mom are supposed to cash in their retirement to pay for my med school or something...

I know schools don't have the money to help everyone out, but that's a hell of a lot to take out in loans, especially when it's accruing interest from day 1. I hope I end up loving neurosurg or something, lol.
 
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neuroguy91 said:
Ha! I wish I had those options. I'm going to have about $300k debt (with cost of living and everything) where I've been accepted, assuming I don't get into Wash U off the wait list. Apparently my retired dad and 30k/year mom are supposed to cash in their retirement to pay for my med school or something...

I know schools don't have the money to help everyone out, but that's a hell of a lot to take out in loans, especially when it's accruing interest from day 1. I hope I end up loving neurosurg or something, lol.
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Did they somehow calculate a high EFC for you guys, or did they come up with a low EFC but then their response was "oh well looks like tons of loans for neuroguy"?
 
efle said:
Did they somehow calculate a high EFC for you guys, or did they come up with a low EFC but then their response was "oh well looks like tons of loans for neuroguy"?
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The weird thing is that they didn't show me the EFC, at least anywhere on the forms that I could see. But I'm sure it was high EFC - my dad did make a lot while he was still working; it's just that what they do have saved up is for allowing them to retire. Apparently, if he could have worked 5 more years to pay off my med school, that's that they expect him to do.

I don't know. I get that they can't afford to give everyone money, but basing it off parents seems somewhat arbitrary to me. What if we were estranged? It wouldn't matter how much they made, then, but that wouldn't really matter to the schools/govt. It just bugs me that these schools quote how great their avg student debt is, less than the national average by far, and then this, and with unsubsidized loans at that (I think it's bull that any student should have interest accruing on a loan while they're in school, but that's just me). I know there have to be outliers, and I kind of expected to be one since my parents are upper middle class at this point in their lives... It's just scary looking at that amount of debt, especially with how much debt will have accrued by the time I can do much to pay it off. And I don't want to feel pressured to go into a high-flying specialty if I don't really want to just because I'm worried about money.

Anyway, that's just my entitled little rant, I suppose.
 
Situations like yours are pretty common I think, in some cases it's even that the parents are still working and are wealthy but they just aren't willing to pay for their kid's schooling. You end up taking absurd debt unless you manage to get merit money, it's a messed up system sometimes. I think even at $300k it still financially works out OK going into a low paying specialty and there are 12% of people taking 300k+...but yeah it just sucks, sorry to hear.
 
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neuroguy91 said:
The weird thing is that they didn't show me the EFC, at least anywhere on the forms that I could see. But I'm sure it was high EFC - my dad did make a lot while he was still working; it's just that what they do have saved up is for allowing them to retire. Apparently, if he could have worked 5 more years to pay off my med school, that's that they expect him to do.

I don't know. I get that they can't afford to give everyone money, but basing it off parents seems somewhat arbitrary to me. What if we were estranged? It wouldn't matter how much they made, then, but that wouldn't really matter to the schools/govt. It just bugs me that these schools quote how great their avg student debt is, less than the national average by far, and then this, and with unsubsidized loans at that (I think it's bull that any student should have interest accruing on a loan while they're in school, but that's just me). I know there have to be outliers, and I kind of expected to be one since my parents are upper middle class at this point in their lives... It's just scary looking at that amount of debt, especially with how much debt will have accrued by the time I can do much to pay it off. And I don't want to feel pressured to go into a high-flying specialty if I don't really want to just because I'm worried about money.

Anyway, that's just my entitled little rant, I suppose.
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Thats weird that you couldn't see an EFC--mine was on one of the first lines in that table that tells you the COA. Also I have no idea whether my EFC is relatively low or high, all I know is my parents can't meet it lol.
 
Also, I wonder if the financial aid office would be open to asking about matching offers. Like in my case my other acceptance is my state school, so if I called or emailed them saying "This is the package I got from my state school. I would absolutely love to attend WashU over [insert school name here], but unfortunately cost is a huge factor. Is there any way you could help make the prices more comparable?"
 
Got a call from Dr. Ratts this morning about a full-tuition merit scholarship. I imagine more people will be hearing about awards as time goes by (my acceptance was several weeks ago).
 
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rainbowsplash said:
Got a call from Dr. Ratts this morning about a full-tuition merit scholarship. I imagine more people will be hearing about awards as time goes by (my acceptance was several weeks ago).
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Congrats man!
 
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PB&Jam said:
Also, I wonder if the financial aid office would be open to asking about matching offers. Like in my case my other acceptance is my state school, so if I called or emailed them saying "This is the package I got from my state school. I would absolutely love to attend WashU over [insert school name here], but unfortunately cost is a huge factor. Is there any way you could help make the prices more comparable?"
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It can't hurt to try, I'm def gonna ask about matching other, lower cost need-based analysis.
 
rainbowsplash said:
Got a call from Dr. Ratts this morning about a full-tuition merit scholarship. I imagine more people will be hearing about awards as time goes by (my acceptance was several weeks ago).
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Congrats!!

If you don't mind me asking, did you get a financial aid package before you got the call about the merit scholarship (and did you reach out to Dean Ratts)? It seems as though a lot of people - myself included - have been extremely disappointed with their packages and have contacted the school. Just curious as to whether it will make any difference... (probably not, but I can dream)
 
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PB&Jam said:
Also, I wonder if the financial aid office would be open to asking about matching offers. Like in my case my other acceptance is my state school, so if I called or emailed them saying "This is the package I got from my state school. I would absolutely love to attend WashU over [insert school name here], but unfortunately cost is a huge factor. Is there any way you could help make the prices more comparable?"
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I did the same thing, and they told me that they don't match offers. To be fair, the financial aid office is very nice, but they seem to have their hands tied.

Honestly, I'm very surprised as to how the school ends up with such a low average amount of debt; my guess is that the majority of people who eventually attend have very wealthy parents who can contribute significantly to their education.
 
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newyorkchocoholic said:
I did the same thing, and they told me that they don't match offers. To be fair, the financial aid office is very nice, but they seem to have their hands tied.

Honestly, I'm very surprised as to how the school ends up with such a low average amount of debt; my guess is that the majority of people who eventually attend have very wealthy parents who can contribute significantly to their education.
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The low value shown in the MSAR is the debt among only people who must borrow tho. The wealthy fams that have it paid for by parents don't contribute to the calculation. Plus it's low compared to other med schools in the MSAR, so unless the behavior of WashU students' parents is different than other competitive private schools, they must be giving better aid? I dunno, it's been very surprising.

Maybe it has something to do with all the recruitment scholarships - someone paying for themselves that gets full tuition merit coverage would go into the calculation as a very low value, just whatever loans they needed to pay rent/food + personal.
 
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newyorkchocoholic said:
I did the same thing, and they told me that they don't match offers. To be fair, the financial aid office is very nice, but they seem to have their hands tied.

Honestly, I'm very surprised as to how the school ends up with such a low average amount of debt; my guess is that the majority of people who eventually attend have very wealthy parents who can contribute significantly to their education.
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efle said:
The low value shown in the MSAR is the debt among only people who must borrow tho. The wealthy fams that have it paid for by parents don't contribute to the calculation. Plus it's low compared to other med schools in the MSAR, so unless the behavior of WashU students' parents is different than other competitive private schools, they must be giving better aid? I dunno, it's been very surprising.

Maybe it has something to do with all the recruitment scholarships - someone paying for themselves that gets full tuition merit coverage would go into the calculation as a very low value, just whatever loans they needed to pay rent/food + personal.
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Does the number include MSTPs? Also where does it say that the number is only among people who need to borrow? If for some reason it includes MSTPs, and WashU has the biggest (or one of the biggest) MSTP cohorts of any medical school, then that could be a huge factor.

EDIT: Words. Abbreviations. I'm very tired.
 
PB&Jam said:
Does the number include MSTPs? Also where does it say that the number is only among people who need to borrow? If for some reason it includes MSTPs, and WashU has the biggest (or one of the biggest) MSTP cohorts of any medical school, then that could be a huge factor.

EDIT: Words. Abbreviations. I'm very tired.
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I emailed AAMC a long time ago about it. It excludes MSTP but includes people that do MD + masters iirc

Edit: Actually I think they said it includes any debt incurred during combined degrees, so MSTP would theoretically be included, but don't MSTP get covered for both tuition and a living expenses stipend? Like that kind of combo degree shouldn't involve borrowing?
 
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efle said:
I emailed AAMC a long time ago about it. It excludes MSTP but includes people that do MD + masters iirc

Edit: Actually I think they said it includes any debt incurred during combined degrees, so MSTP would theoretically be included, but don't MSTP get covered for both tuition and a living expenses stipend? Like that kind of combo degree shouldn't involve borrowing?
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They get a stipend on top of tuition, and from what I know about the program it should be enough to cover living expenses + some extra, maybe. So yeah, I would be shocked if MSTPs borrow at significant enough rates to affect the numbers. (I.e. maybe one or two at WashU do for whatever reason but that won't have a huge effect on the average indebtedness of regular MDs).
 
My guess is 1) the ~twenty full rides they give per year must mean lots of people borrowing only for cheap St. Louis living. 2) they cap borrowing at ~29k/yr + EFC which other places do not. I guess a significant number get screwed by the EFC part, but at other schools they might be getting even worse aid because they might have to come up with EFC + something higher than 29k
 
So is the consensus that if we already received our need-based package then we are out of the running for merit $$$?
 
newyorkchocoholic said:
Congrats!!

If you don't mind me asking, did you get a financial aid package before you got the call about the merit scholarship (and did you reach out to Dean Ratts)? It seems as though a lot of people - myself included - have been extremely disappointed with their packages and have contacted the school. Just curious as to whether it will make any difference... (probably not, but I can dream)
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Not at all! I believe financial aid and merit scholarships are awarded through two separate mechanisms with minimal crosstalk (jurisdiction of FA office and AdCom, respectively) - i.e., you are still in the running for scholarships after your FA decision.

I'm an international student, so WashU offered $0 in aid. In fact, I had been asked to put the entire 4 years' COA, ~$335k, in escrow! I had not contacted the school to appeal. (That is not to say that you shouldn't contact them about your FA, though!)

I think I may be leaning toward a similar school that is essentially going to be a full ride (with some RA time). I'm going to decide very soon and notify the schools. Either way, I have my fingers crossed for you guys!!
 
rainbowsplash said:
Not at all! I believe financial aid and merit scholarships are awarded through two separate mechanisms with minimal crosstalk (jurisdiction of FA office and AdCom, respectively) - i.e., you are still in the running for scholarships after your FA decision.

I'm an international student, so WashU offered $0 in aid. In fact, I had been asked to put the entire 4 years' COA, ~$335k, in escrow! I had not contacted the school to appeal. (That is not to say that you shouldn't contact them about your FA, though!)

I think I may be leaning toward a similar school that is essentially going to be a full ride (with some RA time). I'm going to decide very soon and notify the schools. Either way, I have my fingers crossed for you guys!!
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Does stanford really pay RA well enough to cover full tuition ???
 
Anthrax175 said:
Got a half tuition merit call this morning!
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How fast was your decision turnaround after interview? Seems like the pattern from prior years where scholarship peeps had fastest turnarounds was not true at all for rainbowsplash
 
efle said:
How fast was your decision turnaround after interview? Seems like the pattern from prior years where scholarship peeps had fastest turnarounds was not true at all for rainbowsplash
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It was a few days more than a month turnaround. My friend yesterday had a month turnaround and got merit one too
 
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Guys!! WashU does send out both waitlists and rejections at this point! It's not just waitlists.
 
efle said:
Wonder what the % WL v R is
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I don't think they would release info like that, or if they're even 100% sure at this point. I was too nervous to think of asking... ><
 
Got a call about an hour ago that I got a merit scholarship (not full ride)! Accepted mid-december (among the first wave IIRC), had already received a financial aid package.
 
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PB&Jam said:
Accepted mid-december (among the first wave IIRC), had already received a financial aid package.
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Ayyyy!!! Awesome dude.

Does anybody know if merit stacks onto financial need aid, vs replaces? If it stacks is there an upper limit equal to tuition, or do some people get some of their living costs covered by having merit on top of need aid?
 
efle said:
Ayyyy!!! Awesome dude.

Does anybody know if merit stacks onto financial need aid, vs replaces? If it stacks is there an upper limit equal to tuition, or do some people get some of their living costs covered by having merit on top of need aid?
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1) Stacks

2) Capped at tuition
 
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efle said:
Situations like yours are pretty common I think, in some cases it's even that the parents are still working and are wealthy but they just aren't willing to pay for their kid's schooling. You end up taking absurd debt unless you manage to get merit money, it's a messed up system sometimes. I think even at $300k it still financially works out OK going into a low paying specialty and there are 12% of people taking 300k+...but yeah it just sucks, sorry to hear.
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Yeah, I know. I'll be fine in the end, especially as there are always means to get it paid for (though some require some bug cuts in your career freedom). It's just stressful to have that looming over my head already. Thank you for R the consolation. : )
 
Amygdala123 said:
1) Stacks

2) Capped at tuition
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So the need based scholarship number won't change, correct? Say if your initial award included $20,000 in need based scholarship, and you got a $10,000 merit scholarship, you'd now have $30,000 total in scholarship money and the rest in loans/EFC?
 
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Got a call today from Dr. Ratts - got a merit scholarship! Only a percentage of tuition but I wasn't expecting anything!
 
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PB&Jam said:
So the need based scholarship number won't change, correct? Say if your initial award included $20,000 in need based scholarship, and you got a $10,000 merit scholarship, you'd now have $30,000 total in scholarship money and the rest in loans/EFC?
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Yup!
 
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Anthrax175 said:
Got a half tuition merit call this morning!
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PB&Jam said:
Got a call about an hour ago that I got a merit scholarship (not full ride)! Accepted mid-december (among the first wave IIRC), had already received a financial aid package.
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Congrats on the great news!! Hoping for more good news for everyone.

efle said:
Does anybody know if merit stacks onto financial need aid, vs replaces? If it stacks is there an upper limit equal to tuition, or do some people get some of their living costs covered by having merit on top of need aid?
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My guess is that you'll keep everything up to the estimated full COA.

efle said:
Does stanford really pay RA well enough to cover full tuition ???
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Yes and no. Stanford's RA/TA compensation (rates here) can exceed the $ amount of tuition at max. time, but it's split between tuition and salary. In my case, their FA was quite generous, so FA + sub-max. RAship will cover the full COA, not just tuition. (Thankfully, there is a PI willing to take me on as an RA.)

I haven't looked into RA/TA opportunities at WashU yet - I wouldn't be surprised if they were significant (given how good their research is). That might be a nice way to offset the remainder of the cost, but I'm not sure if people actually do this.
 
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