Would you do it over again?

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UnicornDemon

UnicornDemon

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Knowing what you know now, if given the option to go back all the way to undergrad, would you choose again to pursue medical school? And, if so, would you re-select anesthesiology as your specialty?

If no, what would you have done instead?
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UnicornDemon said:
Knowing what you know now, if given the option to go back all the way to undergrad, would you choose again to pursue medical school? And, if so, would you re-select anesthesiology as your specialty?

If no, what would you have done instead?
Click to expand...

I guess. But sure wouldn't go to my chosen residency location again. That was an epic mistake. Talk about a horrible place to train as a woman and a minority.
 
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UnicornDemon said:
Knowing what you know now, if given the option to go back all the way to undergrad, would you choose again to pursue medical school? And, if so, would you re-select anesthesiology as your specialty?

If no, what would you have done instead?
Click to expand...

If we're talking about going back to the 90s when I was in college, I'd do it again and choose anesthesia. If I were in college in 2013, I'd probably not go to med school and if I did I'd probably choose a different specialty.
 
Absolutely not. It's becoming increasingly difficult to justify the time and expense associated with becoming a physician, especially when you compare this career path to other health care professions (CRNAs, DNPs, DDS, in particular).

Declining reimbursement, steady erosion of autonomy, ridiculous claims of "equivalence" between midlevels and physicians, a notoriously bad medical malpractice climate, horrendous inefficiencies in patient care, crappy (but mandatory) EHR systems, idiotic legislators dictating how medicine is practiced, constant sleep deprivation during medical school and residency, mountains of student debt, the rising tide of greedy corporations (biotech companies, big Pharma, hospital conglomerates)...the list goes on and on.

Essentially, there's no way in hell I would have become a physician again. The end doesn't justify the means anymore. I would have gone to dental school, subspecialized (if possible), and stayed in the same city where I grew up (a place where dentists have always done very well).

I don't advise people to go to medical school anymore. If college students ask for my advice these days, I tell them to either go to dental school or go into nursing with the intent of becoming a CRNA or DNP. With very few exceptions, it's just not worth it to become a physician anymore. Too much sacrifice to be labeled as "equivalent" to individuals with a fraction of your training and lower barriers to entry.

The practice climate for physicians in the U.S. is crappy (and getting worse every year). And this is precisely why I'm packing my bags soon to practice abroad, where the enormous sacrifice involved in becoming a physician is actually appreciated.

Goodbye, U.S.A. This is what happens when the practice environment becomes hostile towards physicians in general--eventually physicians will simply leave to practice elsewhere.
 
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EtherBunny said:
Absolutely not. It's becoming increasingly difficult to justify the time and expense associated with becoming a physician, especially when you compare this career path to other health care professions (CRNAs, DNPs, DDS, in particular).

Declining reimbursement, steady erosion of autonomy, ridiculous claims of "equivalence" between midlevels and physicians, a notoriously bad medical malpractice climate, horrendous inefficiencies in patient care, crappy (but mandatory) EHR systems, idiotic legislators dictating how medicine is practiced, constant sleep deprivation during medical school and residency, mountains of student debt, the rising tide of greedy corporations (biotech companies, big Pharma, hospital conglomerates)...the list goes on and on.

Essentially, there's no way in hell I would have become a physician again. The end doesn't justify the means anymore. I would have gone to dental school, subspecialized (if possible), and stayed in the same city where I grew up (a place where dentists have always done very well).

I don't advise people to go to medical school anymore. If college students ask for my advice these days, I tell them to either go to dental school or go into nursing with the intent of becoming a CRNA or DNP. With very few exceptions, it's just not worth it to become a physician anymore. Too much sacrifice to be labeled as "equivalent" to individuals with a fraction of your training and lower barriers to entry.

The practice climate for physicians in the U.S. is crappy (and getting worse every year). And this is precisely why I'm packing my bags soon to practice abroad, where the enormous sacrifice involved in becoming a physician is actually appreciated.

Goodbye, U.S.A. This is what happens when the practice environment becomes hostile towards physicians in general--eventually physicians will simply leave to practice elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Recently, a friend of mine had his teenager's wisdom teeth pulled at the oral surgeon's office. 4 teeth. Dentist used Propofol. Total Bill: $3,000 cash.

No comparison between Oral Surgery or Orthodontics vs Anesthesia. I've never seen these guys up all night or work the way I have to either.
 
Blade,

Keep in mind the difference in overhead though. The Dentist/Orthodontist has to pay for an office and office staff with all that goes along with it + the headache before any money goes into his pocket. Granted, these guys do quite well for themselves, but it's not as drastic as it sounds when you're just looking at what they bill compared to what we bill. The overhead has to be >60% compared to our 7%.
 
Not to mention many orthodontics residencies charge their residents tuition instead of paying the residents. Look at Penn: 78k/yr for tuition alone for each year of a 2 year orthodontics residency, and over 100k/yr in expenses including cost-of-living expenses. That's on top of insane dental school tuition that exceeds med school tuition in many cases.

The grass is always greener.

Source: http://www.dental.upenn.edu/academi...ams/orthodontic_residency_program/annual_fees
 
CityLights said:
Not to mention many orthodontics residencies charge their residents tuition instead of paying the residents. Look at Penn: 78k/yr for tuition alone for each year of a 2 year orthodontics residency, and over 100k/yr in expenses including cost-of-living expenses. That's on top of insane dental school tuition that exceeds med school tuition in many cases.

The grass is always greener.

Source: http://www.dental.upenn.edu/academi...ams/orthodontic_residency_program/annual_fees
Click to expand...


City,
This is an excellent point that I have brought up many times over on the dental forums. It's ridiculous how much it all costs at some places.

Check out the thread below called, "Is Ortho worth 750K of debt?"

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=971175
 
CityLights said:
Not to mention many orthodontics residencies charge their residents tuition instead of paying the residents. Look at Penn: 78k/yr for tuition alone for each year of a 2 year orthodontics residency, and over 100k/yr in expenses including cost-of-living expenses. That's on top of insane dental school tuition that exceeds med school tuition in many cases.

The grass is always greener.

Source: http://www.dental.upenn.edu/academi...ams/orthodontic_residency_program/annual_fees
Click to expand...

Sometimes the grass is greener. If Orthodontics wasn't lucrative they couldn't keep charging $156,000 for the 24 month residency. But, the future of that field looks bright because Obamacare won't be mandating the fee reimbursement. The free market determines it.

I hope you young people really understand the economics of medicine going forward. I honestly don't think most of you realize just how severely Obamacare will likely impact Anesthesiology. . Or, just how hard this field can be on your body over several decades of night call.
 
Never would do med school or anesthesia if I had to redo it now in 2013 but at the time I did it i am ok with it
 
UnicornDemon said:
Knowing what you know now, if given the option to go back all the way to undergrad, would you choose again to pursue medical school? And, if so, would you re-select anesthesiology as your specialty?

If no, what would you have done instead?
Click to expand...


I woudnt have gone to med school if I could do it over again. I probably would do dentistry. I was predental initially in college, but decided to do medicine for various reasons. I like anesthesiology, but Id probably have an overall happier life if Id have been a dentist.
 
So depressing, as expected though. Granted I'm just starting residency, but thus far, yes I would do it again. Only thing I would change is matching/rank list (happy where I matched, I simply would have cut out advanced spots and just ranked categorical). And I left a well paying, extremely secure job to pursue med school.
 
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One of my close family members is a dentist and I know many general dentists, orthodontists, endodontists, oral surgeons, and periodontists through this family member.

Where I grew up, these guys have a great life. Seriously. Yes, overhead is higher and it's always a concern, especially when compared to a low overhead field such as anesthesia (excluding pain medicine). HOWEVER, there is a huge difference in the reimbursement schemes for dentistry (especially the subspecialties such as endo, OMFS, and ortho) compared to medicine.

The dental profession, in general, learned from the mistakes of managed care, insurance companies, and CMS in medicine. In effect, dentists are often paid in cash for their services. Many don't take insurance, because they don't have to. The ADA outright tells dentists to NOT take insurance. They're not stupid. They learned from our mistakes.

Here's an example for you: the overhead for endodontists is roughly 40%. They routinely charge approximately $1500 for a root canal (sometimes more). An average endodontist can complete a root canal in 15 MINUTES. That's right, 15 minutes. It's no surprise that the average net income for endodontists is well into the 300s, and that's on a 3 day workweek typically. The guys in my hometown often make over $500K a year. Not bad for 4 years of dental school and a 2 year residency.
 
EtherBunny said:
One of my close family members is a dentist and I know many general dentists, orthodontists, endodontists, oral surgeons, and periodontists through this family member.

Where I grew up, these guys have a great life. Seriously. Yes, overhead is higher and it's always a concern, especially when compared to a low overhead field such as anesthesia (excluding pain medicine). HOWEVER, there is a huge difference in the reimbursement schemes for dentistry (especially the subspecialties such as endo, OMFS, and ortho) compared to medicine.

The dental profession, in general, learned from the mistakes of managed care, insurance companies, and CMS in medicine. In effect, dentists are often paid in cash for their services. Many don't take insurance, because they don't have to. The ADA outright tells dentists to NOT take insurance. They're not stupid. They learned from our mistakes.

Here's an example for you: the overhead for endodontists is roughly 40%. They routinely charge approximately $1500 for a root canal (sometimes more). An average endodontist can complete a root canal in 15 MINUTES. That's right, 15 minutes. It's no surprise that the average net income for endodontists is well into the 300s, and that's on a 3 day workweek typically. The guys in my hometown often make over $500K a year. Not bad for 4 years of dental school and a 2 year residency.
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If I had better people skills I would do dentistry in a heart-beat. However, to be a successful dentist you must be charismatic and outgoing. Where I live and my family has grown up (Tampa, FL), people have a selection between different dentists and specialists, meaning if your patients don't like you they can just switch to someone else. If only I was more charismatic...
 
EtherBunny said:
Absolutely not. It's becoming increasingly difficult to justify the time and expense associated with becoming a physician, especially when you compare this career path to other health care professions (CRNAs, DNPs, DDS, in particular).

Declining reimbursement, steady erosion of autonomy, ridiculous claims of "equivalence" between midlevels and physicians, a notoriously bad medical malpractice climate, horrendous inefficiencies in patient care, crappy (but mandatory) EHR systems, idiotic legislators dictating how medicine is practiced, constant sleep deprivation during medical school and residency, mountains of student debt, the rising tide of greedy corporations (biotech companies, big Pharma, hospital conglomerates)...the list goes on and on.

Essentially, there's no way in hell I would have become a physician again. The end doesn't justify the means anymore. I would have gone to dental school, subspecialized (if possible), and stayed in the same city where I grew up (a place where dentists have always done very well).

I don't advise people to go to medical school anymore. If college students ask for my advice these days, I tell them to either go to dental school or go into nursing with the intent of becoming a CRNA or DNP. With very few exceptions, it's just not worth it to become a physician anymore. Too much sacrifice to be labeled as "equivalent" to individuals with a fraction of your training and lower barriers to entry.

The practice climate for physicians in the U.S. is crappy (and getting worse every year). And this is precisely why I'm packing my bags soon to practice abroad, where the enormous sacrifice involved in becoming a physician is actually appreciated.

Goodbye, U.S.A. This is what happens when the practice environment becomes hostile towards physicians in general--eventually physicians will simply leave to practice elsewhere.
Click to expand...

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

BLADEMDA said:
Recently, a friend of mine had his teenager's wisdom teeth pulled at the oral surgeon's office. 4 teeth. Dentist used Propofol. Total Bill: $3,000 cash.

No comparison between Oral Surgery or Orthodontics vs Anesthesia. I've never seen these guys up all night or work the way I have to either.
Click to expand...

Absolutely! You could quite medical school, go to dental school, do a specialty, and still finish earlier - make more money, work a lot less, not have as much stress.

But the truth is, the medical profession is a poor place to be. I would go into financial management.
 
Absolutely not. I would become a CRNA for the multitude of reasons discussed on this forum.
 
EtherBunny said:
Absolutely not. It's becoming increasingly difficult to justify the time and expense associated with becoming a physician, especially when you compare this career path to other health care professions (CRNAs, DNPs, DDS, in particular).

Declining reimbursement, steady erosion of autonomy, ridiculous claims of "equivalence" between midlevels and physicians, a notoriously bad medical malpractice climate, horrendous inefficiencies in patient care, crappy (but mandatory) EHR systems, idiotic legislators dictating how medicine is practiced, constant sleep deprivation during medical school and residency, mountains of student debt, the rising tide of greedy corporations (biotech companies, big Pharma, hospital conglomerates)...the list goes on and on.

Essentially, there's no way in hell I would have become a physician again. The end doesn't justify the means anymore. I would have gone to dental school, subspecialized (if possible), and stayed in the same city where I grew up (a place where dentists have always done very well).

I don't advise people to go to medical school anymore. If college students ask for my advice these days, I tell them to either go to dental school or go into nursing with the intent of becoming a CRNA or DNP. With very few exceptions, it's just not worth it to become a physician anymore. Too much sacrifice to be labeled as "equivalent" to individuals with a fraction of your training and lower barriers to entry.

The practice climate for physicians in the U.S. is crappy (and getting worse every year). And this is precisely why I'm packing my bags soon to practice abroad, where the enormous sacrifice involved in becoming a physician is actually appreciated.

Goodbye, U.S.A. This is what happens when the practice environment becomes hostile towards physicians in general--eventually physicians will simply leave to practice elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Wow. Could have wrote this myself....
 
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I think you guys are missing the bigger picture here. Obamacare and everything we associate with it is just a symptom - not the pathogenesis, per se - of the ****ty outlook for physicians in the coming future. The cause for all this is simply a steady decline in the economic dominance of the West, coupled with the reluctance of our nation to accept this fact. For many reasons that I won't really go into, I don't see the US bouncing back to the way it was 10-50 years ago. That economic boom has come and gone, and will not repeat itself barring some great unforeseen innovation. With that in mind, what skill set would I rather have going forward? Diagnosis and treatment of life-threatening disease or straightening teeth? Lettuce be cereal... orthodontics and actually majority of dentistry is a relatively scarce presence in the rest of the world, and was born in the US out of sheer prosperity. When that prosperity goes away, so follows the prosperity of DDS'es.
 
bronx43 said:
I think you guys are missing the bigger picture here. Obamacare and everything we associate with it is just a symptom - not the pathogenesis, per se - of the ****ty outlook for physicians in the coming future. The cause for all this is simply a steady decline in the economic dominance of the West, coupled with the reluctance of our nation to accept this fact. For many reasons that I won't really go into, I don't see the US bouncing back to the way it was 10-50 years ago. That economic boom has come and gone, and will not repeat itself barring some great unforeseen innovation. With that in mind, what skill set would I rather have going forward? Diagnosis and treatment of life-threatening disease or straightening teeth? Lettuce be cereal... orthodontics and actually majority of dentistry is a relatively scarce presence in the rest of the world, and was born in the US out of sheer prosperity. When that prosperity goes away, so follows the prosperity of DDS'es.
Click to expand...

The problem in the US isn't Asian growth, it's the lawyer tax and socialism promoting increased numbers of freeloaders.
 
bronx43 said:
I think you guys are missing the bigger picture here. Obamacare and everything we associate with it is just a symptom - not the pathogenesis, per se - of the ****ty outlook for physicians in the coming future. The cause for all this is simply a steady decline in the economic dominance of the West, coupled with the reluctance of our nation to accept this fact. For many reasons that I won't really go into, I don't see the US bouncing back to the way it was 10-50 years ago. That economic boom has come and gone, and will not repeat itself barring some great unforeseen innovation. With that in mind, what skill set would I rather have going forward? Diagnosis and treatment of life-threatening disease or straightening teeth? Lettuce be cereal... orthodontics and actually majority of dentistry is a relatively scarce presence in the rest of the world, and was born in the US out of sheer prosperity. When that prosperity goes away, so follows the prosperity of DDS'es.
Click to expand...

Ignorant on many levels.
 
GypsySongman said:
The problem in the US isn't Asian growth, it's the lawyer tax and socialism promoting increased numbers of freeloaders.
Click to expand...

I didn't say it was necessarily Asian growth. Certainly, the loss of American manufacturing has hurt, but it's been a steady decline since post-WWII when the US was left rising from the ashes. And yes, a big part of the problem is entitlement programs, but what we envision as the stereotypical "freeloader" is only a small part. Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, and military spending make up the brunt of our federal budget.
 
bronx43 said:
I think you guys are missing the bigger picture here. Obamacare and everything we associate with it is just a symptom - not the pathogenesis, per se - of the ****ty outlook for physicians in the coming future. The cause for all this is simply a steady decline in the economic dominance of the West, coupled with the reluctance of our nation to accept this fact. For many reasons that I won't really go into, I don't see the US bouncing back to the way it was 10-50 years ago. That economic boom has come and gone, and will not repeat itself barring some great unforeseen innovation. With that in mind, what skill set would I rather have going forward? Diagnosis and treatment of life-threatening disease or straightening teeth? Lettuce be cereal... orthodontics and actually majority of dentistry is a relatively scarce presence in the rest of the world, and was born in the US out of sheer prosperity. When that prosperity goes away, so follows the prosperity of DDS'es.
Click to expand...

why is my finance/wall street neighbor going to the hamptons every weekend and sending all 4 kids to private school? oh yeah my college buddy in silicon valley is doing not too shabby either. why dont these high income earners share our dire outlook? the government has no respect for physicians and yes obamacare has something to do with it.
 
saratoga733 said:
why is my finance/wall street neighbor going to the hamptons every weekend and sending all 4 kids to private school? oh yeah my college buddy in silicon valley is doing not too shabby either. why dont these high income earners share our dire outlook? the government has no respect for physicians and yes obamacare has something to do with it.
Click to expand...

What's your point? That there are still wealthy people out there? Even if the financial markets crashed into the ground tomorrow, there would still be people living in the Hamptons and sending their kids to private school. Hell, there would be people on the short side that would have made a killing. The bottom line is that Obamacare didn't start the trend of massively overpriced health care in the setting of stagnant economic growth. It's simply a response to what is already broken. Is it the best solution? Hell no.
 
EtherBunny said:
The ADA outright tells dentists to NOT take insurance. They're not stupid. They learned from our mistakes.
Click to expand...

This might have been true 10 years ago. The insurance companies wised up and infiltrated the ranks of the ADA. Now the big shots there are former insurance company peoples.
 
UnicornDemon said:
Knowing what you know now, if given the option to go back all the way to undergrad, would you choose again to pursue medical school? And, if so, would you re-select anesthesiology as your specialty?

If no, what would you have done instead?
Click to expand...

If I had a time and youth machine, I wouldn't relive my life exactly as I have, that would be boring. :) I know, that's not really what you're asking.

If I was about to finish undergrad now, I'd still probably go to medical school. It may not be the sure path to wealth it once was, but it's still a sure path to a secure and high paying job that, oh by the way, is interesting rewarding and useful. I'd make a point of going to the cheapest state medical school I could and minimizing debt.

I'd still do anesthesia because the actual job is wonderful. I'm not sure I could gut out an IM residency to get to cardiology on the other side. No desire to be a surgeon. I might be able to do path or rads. Anesthesia fits me perfectly.

I really don't fear CRNA competition, or unemployment, or the notion of salaries cratering to primary care poverty levels. There are worse things in life than making $250-300K as an anesthesiologist, though sometimes you wouldn't know it by reading this forum.


I think the notion that the average (or even above-average) med school matriculant could have just as easily rolled over into a lucrative i-banking job or tech startup or other entrepreneurial rocketship to wealth is one of the more laughable grass-is-greener recurrent SDN fantasies. Brains and hard work will get you far, but those fields are littered with the corpses of also-rans.
 
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pgg said:
If I had a time and youth machine, I wouldn't relive my life exactly as I have, that would be boring. :) I know, that's not really what you're asking.

If I was about to finish undergrad now, I'd still probably go to medical school. It may not be the sure path to wealth it once was, but it's still a sure path to a secure and high paying job that, oh by the way, is interesting rewarding and useful. I'd make a point of going to the cheapest state medical school I could and minimizing debt.

I'd still do anesthesia because the actual job is wonderful. I'm not sure I could gut out an IM residency to get to cardiology on the other side. No desire to be a surgeon. I might be able to do path or rads. Anesthesia fits me perfectly.

I really don't fear CRNA competition, or unemployment, or the notion of salaries cratering to primary care poverty levels. There are worse things in life than making $250-300K as an anesthesiologist, though sometimes you wouldn't know it by reading this forum.


I think the notion that the average (or even above-average) med school matriculant could have just as easily rolled over into a lucrative i-banking job or tech startup or other entrepreneurial rocketship to wealth is one of the more laughable grass-is-greener recurrent SDN fantasies. Brains and hard work will get you far, but those fields are littered with the corpses of also-rans.
Click to expand...

Perfectly stated. Having worked in the corporate world at a very large biotechnology company, I can guarantee that there are many bright, driven and well-educated people there (PhDs, physicians, lawyers, etc..) who will never out-earn an Anesthesiologist. And yes, they work into the night and on Saturdays and Sundays quite regularly (at least if they want a promotion, they do).
 
Perhaps not, but I will rather have a rabid raccoon shoved up my rear before I choose to become a CRNA or a dentist for that matter. That is not grass that looks remotely greener from this side. My ideal alternative would be a regular office job 9-4, holidays off, no significant student loan investment, with an early start to "real life".
 
pgg said:
If I had a time and youth machine, I wouldn't relive my life exactly as I have, that would be boring. :) I know, that's not really what you're asking.

If I was about to finish undergrad now, I'd still probably go to medical school. It may not be the sure path to wealth it once was, but it's still a sure path to a secure and high paying job that, oh by the way, is interesting rewarding and useful. I'd make a point of going to the cheapest state medical school I could and minimizing debt.

I'd still do anesthesia because the actual job is wonderful. I'm not sure I could gut out an IM residency to get to cardiology on the other side. No desire to be a surgeon. I might be able to do path or rads. Anesthesia fits me perfectly.

I really don't fear CRNA competition, or unemployment, or the notion of salaries cratering to primary care poverty levels. There are worse things in life than making $250-300K as an anesthesiologist, though sometimes you wouldn't know it by reading this forum.


I think the notion that the average (or even above-average) med school matriculant could have just as easily rolled over into a lucrative i-banking job or tech startup or other entrepreneurial rocketship to wealth is one of the more laughable grass-is-greener recurrent SDN fantasies. Brains and hard work will get you far, but those fields are littered with the corpses of also-rans.
Click to expand...


Good post. But, what is the relevancy of asking if I would do it over again? How does that help you? The situation is far worse today than when I entered medical school or finished residency.

This field has been very good to me. I work hard but have amassed a significant sum of money and will likely retire quite wealthy. But again, that isn't the issue here is it? The real question is the following: "is anesthesia a good specialty choice based on the likely future of the field?"

My answer is that depends a lot on you. What are you realistic options? What other specialties do you like? Does Medicare reimburse those specialties well? Do you like the work and see yourself still doing it in 30 years? Will you be dedicated and focused on being the best Doctor possible in that specialty? What is your income expectation going forward?

The government doesn't value medicine much; it values anesthesia even less. So, you should really like this field significantly more than many others because ROAD will be a ROD in a few years.

That said, there will be plenty of job opportunities as many senior Anesthesiologists retire. But, those jobs are more likely to be a hospital employee model than a private practice one.
 
BLADEMDA said:
Good post. But, what is the relevancy of asking if I would do it over again? How does that help you? The situation is far worse today than when I entered medical school or finished residency.

This field has been very good to me. I work hard but have amassed a significant sum of money and will likely retire quite wealthy. But again, that isn't the issue here is it? The real question is the following: "is anesthesia a good specialty choice based on the likely future of the field?"

My answer is that depends a lot on you. What are you realistic options? What other specialties do you like? Does Medicare reimburse those specialties well? Do you like the work and see yourself still doing it in 30 years? Will you be dedicated and focused on being the best Doctor possible in that specialty? What is your income expectation going forward?

The government doesn't value medicine much; it values anesthesia even less. So, you should really like this field significantly more than many others because ROAD will be a ROD in a few years.

That said, there will be plenty of job opportunities as many senior Anesthesiologists retire. But, those jobs are more likely to be a hospital employee model than a private practice one.
Click to expand...


That's funny you use that acronym--ROD--because another legendary SDN'er (yes, you are legendary, blade ) by the name of ApacheIndian, who was a staunchly pro-radiology and applied to anesthesia as a back-up, had this to say a few years back:

"Ophtho blows for the following reasons:
Pay is down to like 1/3 of what it was 5 years ago
LASIK is old news
You will be a clinic SLAVE for the rest of your life
You have to see annoying patients

Now I'm sure somebody's gonna post how they have an uncle or cousin or whatever out there "making over a mill!" or something like that. Fine. I believe you. But trust me they are serious outliers. The average general eye guy makes as much as loser pediatricians.

The new acronym for the premier gigs is the RAD to happiness. (Don't you love how ironically that both starts with radiology and spells out radiology too? It's a sign people!)

OP: Get out while you can! Rads hands-down blows ophtho out of the water."

:D
 
If I could do it all again. I would loose some morals and get some tats and move to Van Nuys California and get involved in the acting industry :)
 
Silent Cool said:
That's funny you use that acronym--ROD--because another legendary SDN'er (yes, you are legendary, blade ) by the name of ApacheIndian, who was a staunchly pro-radiology and applied to anesthesia as a back-up, had this to say a few years back:

"Ophtho blows for the following reasons:
Pay is down to like 1/3 of what it was 5 years ago
LASIK is old news
You will be a clinic SLAVE for the rest of your life
You have to see annoying patients

Now I'm sure somebody's gonna post how they have an uncle or cousin or whatever out there "making over a mill!" or something like that. Fine. I believe you. But trust me they are serious outliers. The average general eye guy makes as much as loser pediatricians.

The new acronym for the premier gigs is the RAD to happiness. (Don't you love how ironically that both starts with radiology and spells out radiology too? It's a sign people!)

OP: Get out while you can! Rads hands-down blows ophtho out of the water."

:D
Click to expand...
Radiology is the ROD or RAD or whatever to happiness only if the key to your happiness is being unemployed or being employed in a really crappy city. Or if you enjoy doing fellowships simply to be hired. At this point, it's the D to happiness, unless you like doing something that actually matters, which you case, you're hosed. IM has some good sub-specialties, but like pgg said, you have to gut out an IM residency first.
 
bronx43 said:
Radiology is the ROD or RAD or whatever to happiness only if the key to your happiness is being unemployed or being employed in a really crappy city. Or if you enjoy doing fellowships simply to be hired. At this point, it's the D to happiness, unless you like doing something that actually matters, which you case, you're hosed. IM has some good sub-specialties, but like pgg said, you have to gut out an IM residency first.
Click to expand...

LOL, I get a kick out of all this. "The D to happiness," LOL. Christ, why bother! Maybe I'll just quit while I'm ahead and get a cushy government job. :laugh:
 
bronx43 said:
At this point, it's the D to happiness, unless you like doing something that actually matters, which you case, you're hosed. IM has some good sub-specialties, but like pgg said, you have to gut out an IM residency first.
Click to expand...

Actually, the psychiatrists seem to be universally happy:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=1021641

Then again, they're all working at an 8-5 pace. So, I suppose once you reach a certain point having excessive amounts of money doesn't make you any happier. Rather, it's more important that one has time to spend with his friends, family, and hobbies supplemented by a comfortable income to support himself.
 
UnicornDemon said:
Actually, the psychiatrists seem to be universally happy:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=1021641

Then again, they're all working at an 8-5 pace. So, I suppose once you reach a certain point having excessive amounts of money doesn't make you any happier. Rather, it's more important that one has time to spend with his friends, family, and hobbies supplemented by a comfortable income to support himself.
Click to expand...

You have just describe the European Mentality to a tee. Maybe they are right?
 
I mean this with the most sincerest of intentions and with no hidden agenda.

I read threads like this and it makes me wonder, as an impressionable pre-med who has also considered NP and CRNA, just where I should end up. I read threads like this that essentially say "shoulda been an NP/CRNA", but then I read other threads where some of the same people absolutely lambaste the NP/CRNA profession.

My current plan of action is to just finish out my pre-med requirements and hit my 15 years in the pension (about another 2.5 years), then decide which route to go, but I won't lie, threads like this make decisions more difficult to make.
 
FiremedicMike said:
I mean this with the most sincerest of intentions and with no hidden agenda.

I read threads like this and it makes me wonder, as an impressionable pre-med who has also considered NP and CRNA, just where I should end up. I read threads like this that essentially say "shoulda been an NP/CRNA", but then I read other threads where some of the same people absolutely lambaste the NP/CRNA profession.

My current plan of action is to just finish out my pre-med requirements and hit my 15 years in the pension (about another 2.5 years), then decide which route to go, but I won't lie, threads like this make decisions more difficult to make.
Click to expand...

Don't over think it. Do what you want in life. Being a Physician is rewarding in and of itself. I would not choose CRNA/NP over MD if I had to do it again. But, I was young when my journey began. You are much older and that makes the decision harder.
 
FiremedicMike said:
I mean this with the most sincerest of intentions and with no hidden agenda.

I read threads like this and it makes me wonder, as an impressionable pre-med who has also considered NP and CRNA, just where I should end up. I read threads like this that essentially say "shoulda been an NP/CRNA", but then I read other threads where some of the same people absolutely lambaste the NP/CRNA profession.

My current plan of action is to just finish out my pre-med requirements and hit my 15 years in the pension (about another 2.5 years), then decide which route to go, but I won't lie, threads like this make decisions more difficult to make.
Click to expand...

Leave the health care profession. That is the best advice anyone can give you. It is a horrible field - and getting worse.

JC (joint commision, not Jesus Christ...although they did change their name because they wield the power of God) was at our hospital last week. They are just another ridiculous cog in the wheel that is ruining a once glorious profession.
 
epidural man said:
Leave the health care profession. That is the best advice anyone can give you. It is a horrible field - and getting worse.

JC (joint commision, not Jesus Christ...although they did change their name because they wield the power of God) was at our hospital last week. They are just another ridiculous cog in the wheel that is ruining a once glorious profession.
Click to expand...

Best. Advice. Ever.
 
epidural man said:
Leave the health care profession. That is the best advice anyone can give you. It is a horrible field - and getting worse.

JC (joint commision, not Jesus Christ...although they did change their name because they wield the power of God) was at our hospital last week. They are just another ridiculous cog in the wheel that is ruining a once glorious profession.
Click to expand...

Sad but true, and there's no turning back.
There's no reality or evidence in the new bureaucrat-led medicine; just policies, protocols, and rules- none of them needing evidence or justification.
 
GypsySongman said:
Sad but true, and there's no turning back.
There's no reality or evidence in the new bureaucrat-led medicine; just policies, protocols, and rules- none of them needing evidence or justification.
Click to expand...


Some of the recent moves are enfuriating.

For example, recently some bigger journals - notably Regional Anesthesia and Pain Medicine - have announced they will no longer publish articles on non-FDA approved drugs or procedures. This move, and others like it, effectively will kill medicine such that the only decisions being made - the only ones driving information and discovery forward - are those with billions of dollars. That presents a tremendous problem in this field - I think more than any of us can imagine.

The FDA is also making a huge push to make sure that the only drugs studied and used are ones that either already have an FDA approval, or go through the Phase 1-3 process - which again, costs BILLIONS of dollars. They are giving IND waivers less and less.

Much of medicine is driven by decisions made by medicare. Do you know what they recently decided? That CRNA's know the same as a pain physician and can practice pain medicine. How ridiculously obtuse, mis-informed, greedy, shortsided, and stolid do you have to be to come to this conclusion? And again, medicare steers much of medicine. These imbeciles are our medicine overlords unfortunately.
 
GoodmanBrown said:
Yeah, I'm sure that if you're getting paid $200K+ as an engineer, you're probably working a 9-5 set of hours with no one telling you what to do or when your projects need to get done...

The grass is always greener.
Click to expand...

Not to mention it's a cyclical boom and won't likely last. Trying to choose a career over a petty news story like this is akin to changing lanes on the highway during traffic hour whenever one lane seems to be speeding up, only to have it slow down soon after cuz everybody had the same idea and the lane you were on before is now the one speeding up. You won't get there any quicker, and you'll likely be a lot more stressed out.
 
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