Would 10m liquid assets and being under 50 be enough for you to walk away or would you miss it too much?

[abolt18]

cheer and travel baseball alone are $1000 a month for the kids. Excluding hotels stays.

A min $20 to feed each kid per day x 2 kids equals $40 a day for kids x 30 days equals $1200 in food cost for the month.

I’m in the hole $2200.

Put $1700 a month for $529.

So that’s $3900 in the hole each month.
before vacation cost.

I don’t. Think these are are outrageous numbers.

Food budget for our family of 5 is $1400/month, add about $200-250 for dining out and another couple hundred for date nights. I know that grocery budget will grow as my preteens become teens, but still, big difference I guess. No travel sports either, as neither my wife or I want to give up our already limited family free time for that sort of stuff. (Sports, yes. Travel sports, hard pass)

But I give no criticism. I simply acknowledge that everyone has their own priorities and offer that having kids doesn't necessarily have to be as expensive as you report.

Have not started saving for college simply because we're trying to take care of student loans first, but after that we will be aggressive for a few years. I already told my kids I'll pay tuition for BYU (VERY inexpensive for members of our church) or in-state tuition at ____ state university of whatever state in which we're living at that time. Anything above that will be their responsibility.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[aneftp]

Food budget for our family of 5 is $1400/month, add about . I know that will grow as my preteens become teens, but still, big difference I guess. No travel sports either, as neither my wife or I want to give up our already limited family free time for that sort of stuff. (Sports, yes. Travel sports, hard pass)

But I offer no criticism. I simply acknowledge that everyone has their own priorities and offer that having kids doesn't necessarily have to be as expensive as you report.

Have not started saving for college simply because we're trying to take care of student loans first, but after that we will be aggressive for a few years. I already told my kids I'll pay tuition for BYU (VERY inexpensive for members of our church) or in-state tuition at ____ state university of whatever state in which we're living at that time. Anything above that will be their responsibility.

If my kids go to in state. It’s prepaid. It’s taken care of already when they were born.

But I don’t know how much they need for Housing or any leftover money will be applied to grad school. Yes those are choices I make.

It’s a personal choice for everyone but that’s why I get annoyed by media reports of colleges being unaffordable yet 70-% parents of college age kids should have been able to put $50-100 a month into their kids education but didn’t bother till it was too late.

 

[sevoflurane]

Seems like the younger generation has a higher percentage of individuals that have opted to not have kids. It’s def. a choice and an option to reach financial independence at a much earlier age.
Even more so if you are a DINK.
Def has positives and negatives, but if early retirement is a high priority goal then it’s an extremely viable option.

 

[narcotics999]

Seems like the younger generation has a higher percentage of individuals that have opted to not have kids. It’s def. a choice and an option to reach financial independence at a much earlier age.
Even more so if you are a DINK.
Def has positives and negatives, but if early retirement is a high priority goal then it’s an extremely viable option.

Y, right. Imagine nobody has kids. Who is going to take care of you when you are old? Your $$$ to buy food no one is going to produce? Maybe AI and self- producing robots will help?

Maybe we should have a Dink tax? lol

 

[Dr. Rude]

Are you looking for a side gig?

I like most dogs better than I like most people.

 

[aneftp]

Seems like the younger generation has a higher percentage of individuals that have opted to not have kids. It’s def. a choice and an option to reach financial independence at a much earlier age.
Even more so if you are a DINK.
Def has positives and negatives, but if early retirement is a high priority goal then it’s an extremely viable option.

Yeah. Got a relatively newer anesthesiologist who’s 5 years out age 35. No money problems
No kids

Their stay at home husband spouse doesn’t even work either. Just a weird world we live in.

 

[sevoflurane]

Y, right. Imagine nobody has kids. Who is going to take care of you when you are old? Your $$$ to buy food no one is going to produce? Maybe AI and self- producing robots will help?

Maybe we should have a Dink tax? lol

Are you kidding me? LMAO, seriously evaluate what you just said.
Who said ANYTHING about “nobody” having kids?

“Who is going to take of me when I am old?”
😂😂😂🤣🤣🤣…. Nonsense.

Just flat out nonsense and delusional statement.

You do realize some kids cause a lot of headaches for some parents right?

Not having kids is “one” of many paths to financial independence early.
Donn’t read into it buddy.

 

[caligas]

I feel like what everyone considers to be “enough” money keeps moving way faster than inflation. Used to be $1M, then $5M, then $10M, now people saying thats not enough.

 

[abolt18]

In reality, once I have no debt and no mortgage my cash-flow requirements will be relatively low. 3% withdrawal would allow you to pull $150K off a $5M portfolio every year. We currently spend about 100K/yr, excluding the mortgage, and it's QUITE comfortable. I suspect that by the time I have $5M and my mortgage gone, I'll be able to live very comfortably off $150Kish/yr.

$10M is more than enough to live a comfortable life, take care of kids' needs, and do a lot of good in the world around you.

 

[GassYous]

In reality, once I have no debt and no mortgage my cash-flow requirements will be relatively low. 3% withdrawal would allow you to pull $150K off a $5M portfolio every year. We currently spend about 100K/yr, excluding the mortgage, and it's QUITE comfortable. I suspect that by the time I have $5M and my mortgage gone, I'll be able to live very comfortably off $150Kish/yr.

$10M is more than enough to live a comfortable life, take care of kids' needs, and do a lot of good in the world around you.

Just need to avoid lifestyle creep. It's an international trip then it's a first class flight then it's a 5 star resort for a week. You can easily blow tens of thousands once you get a taste for that lifestyle.

 

[aneftp]

In reality, once I have no debt and no mortgage my cash-flow requirements will be relatively low. 3% withdrawal would allow you to pull $150K off a $5M portfolio every year. We currently spend about 100K/yr, excluding the mortgage, and it's QUITE comfortable. I suspect that by the time I have $5M and my mortgage gone, I'll be able to live very comfortably off $150Kish/yr.

$10M is more than enough to live a comfortable life, take care of kids' needs, and do a lot of good in the world around you.

Very few people I know are debt free (including mortgage free) by age 45 (with kids) in major east coast or west coast high cost of living areas.

It usually isn’t until they are age 50-55 till their mortgage is paid off.

So it spends on the cost of living area and the homes.

I can probably sell my current home for 2.2-2.3 million in Florida. Downsize to a smaller home for 1 million. Pocket the cash. Be debt free as well but the kids love the home and the neighborhood. Plus buy a my colleague beach condo who just retired. But these are the choices we all made. Florida used to be cheap but it’s not anymore.

Texas housing was dirt cheap as well. Not cheap anymore. Even boonies outer outer surburbs like prosper Texas way outside of Dallas isn’t cheap anymore. Plus the 2% property taxes down there.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Portfolio diversification doesn’t have to be complicated. I set up two different test portfolios: one with a basic mix of 60% US stocks and 40% investment-grade bonds, and the other with 11 different asset classes, including a 20% stake in larger-cap domestic stocks; 10% each in developed- and emerging-markets stocks, Treasuries, US core bonds, global bonds, and high-yield bonds; and 5% each in small-cap stocks, commodities, gold, and REITs. The more diversified portfolio has occasionally outperformed, but the basic 60/40 mix had better risk-adjusted returns in about 87% of the rolling 10-year periods starting in 1976. The upshot: Investors looking to build diversified portfolios don’t necessarily need to venture too far beyond a basic mix of larger-cap stocks and high-quality bonds.

Morningstar

 

[triggermaster]

Portfolio diversification doesn’t have to be complicated. I set up two different test portfolios: one with a basic mix of 60% US stocks and 40% investment-grade bonds, and the other with 11 different asset classes, including a 20% stake in larger-cap domestic stocks; 10% each in developed- and emerging-markets stocks, Treasuries, US core bonds, global bonds, and high-yield bonds; and 5% each in small-cap stocks, commodities, gold, and REITs. The more diversified portfolio has occasionally outperformed, but the basic 60/40 mix had better risk-adjusted returns in about 87% of the rolling 10-year periods starting in 1976. The upshot: Investors looking to build diversified portfolios don’t necessarily need to venture too far beyond a basic mix of larger-cap stocks and high-quality bonds.

Morningstar

The no-bond portfolio destroys both.

 

[GravelRider]

I feel like what everyone considers to be “enough” money keeps moving way faster than inflation. Used to be $1M, then $5M, then $10M, now people saying thats not enough.

$10 million is still a silly number to me. The number is either used to justify working forever or spending a ton of money. Either you love working or you love spending…both are fine, but just be honest with yourself. $10 million at current HYSA interest rates generates $400-500k per year in interest alone. That is a very nice lifestyle in a HCOL area. I currently live in a HCOL area and my annual expenses with kids are way below that. I take 1-2 nice vacations per year and don’t think twice about making reservations at the Michelin-starred restaurants in the VHCOL city nearby.

If your goal is building trust funds for your grandkids or buying ski chalets and beach front condos then by all means, shoot for that $10M. However, if your idea of life fulfillment doesn’t involve working like a “2.5 FTE” then it’s probably fine to slow down and spend time doing things you enjoy.

To answer the original question. If I had $10 million, I would never voluntarily step foot in an OR again. I like anesthesia just fine, but it is still just a job for me and there are plenty of other things I would rather be doing.

 

[BLADEMDA]

$10 million is still a silly number to me. The number is either used to justify working forever or spending a ton of money. Either you love working or you love spending…both are fine, but just be honest with yourself. $10 million at current HYSA interest rates generates $400-500k per year in interest alone. That is a very nice lifestyle in a HCOL area. I currently live in a HCOL area and my annual expenses with kids are way below that. I take 1-2 nice vacations per year and don’t think twice about making reservations at the Michelin-starred restaurants in the VHCOL city nearby.

If your goal is building trust funds for your grandkids or buying ski chalets and beach front condos then by all means, shoot for that $10M. However, if your idea of life fulfillment doesn’t involve working like a “2.5 FTE” then it’s probably fine to slow down and spend time doing things you enjoy.

To answer the original question. If I had $10 million, I would never voluntarily step foot in an OR again. I like anesthesia just fine, but it is still just a job for me and there are plenty of other things I would rather be doing.

I think there is also a bit of a misunderstanding about asset accumulation over time. I recommend a simple approach where you save up enough money through investments like 401K, IRA, taxable accounts, etc and Real Estate to allow those to grow over time while you cut back working substantially. For example, you save up $5-$6 million then reduce your work to 0.5 FTE. You can take a position that offers the lifestyle you prefer while your assets double over the next 10 years. My hunch is that 3/4 of you could do that by age 55 if you make the effort. Sure, age 55 isn't truly FIRE but it isn't exactly a late semi retirement either.

 

[Spikebd]

My "worry" is that even though I have enough money saved in today's dollars that in the future (15 years out) the US Dollar loses its status as the reserve currency and the purchasing power of the Dollar drops by 50-60%. That scenario worries me more than higher taxes or a bear market. Thus, I am preparing my retirement to be able to live off 50% of my total savings so I can enjoy whatever years I have left. I don't think the end of the USA occurs because of Nuclear War or an external threat but rather excess spending erodes the standard of living to the point that 1/2 the country becomes reliant on the govt. for handouts or freebies.

_________________
When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic. -- Ben Franklin

Alexander Fraser Tytler said, “A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury.”

Blade, do you advocate for crypto such as BTC, ETH, or DOGE in the case of excessive inflation of the US dollar?

 

[GravelRider]

I think there is also a bit of a misunderstanding about asset accumulation over time. I recommend a simple approach where you save up enough money through investments like 401K, IRA, taxable accounts, etc and Real Estate to allow those to grow over time while you cut back working substantially. For example, you save up $5-$6 million then reduce your work to 0.5 FTE. You can take a position that offers the lifestyle you prefer while your assets double over the next 10 years. My hunch is that 3/4 of you could do that by age 55 if you make the effort. Sure, age 55 isn't truly FIRE but it isn't exactly a late semi retirement either.

I think that’s a great approach and one that I plan to take…a slow phase out of work. I just question to need to have $10 million or more at age 65-70. The ironic thing about all of it is, the older you are the less you need for retirement because death is that much closer to snatching it all away. If $10 million is the goal then that is easily achievable for most anesthesiologists with modest living and straightforward investment planning.

 

[kidthor]

I still want to know if there are any non-sketchy real estate syndication opportunities out there... basically every one I come across seems scammy (with a ton of fees and so forth).

 

[finalpsychyear]

I think there is also a bit of a misunderstanding about asset accumulation over time. I recommend a simple approach where you save up enough money through investments like 401K, IRA, taxable accounts, etc and Real Estate to allow those to grow over time while you cut back working substantially. For example, you save up $5-$6 million then reduce your work to 0.5 FTE. You can take a position that offers the lifestyle you prefer while your assets double over the next 10 years. My hunch is that 3/4 of you could do that by age 55 if you make the effort. Sure, age 55 isn't truly FIRE but it isn't exactly a late semi retirement either.

hitting 5-6m by age 55 should be attainable by everyone who actually starts a 20-25 career with that goal and starts at 500k/yr.

Rather I think having a pseudo mid term goal could be more helpful. Say the average starting anes doc is 31-32.

After 8 years of practice or roughly age 40 where would you suggest the goal to have their liquid assets at by then?

Thus, if they are behind they have a lot of time to make it up.

 

[aneftp]

hitting 5-6m by age 55 should be attainable by everyone who actually starts a 20-25 career with that goal and starts at 500k/yr.

Rather I think having a pseudo mid term goal could be more helpful. Say the average starting anes doc is 31-32.

After 8 years of practice or roughly age 40 where would you suggest the goal to have their liquid assets at by then?

Thus, if they are behind they have a lot of time to make it up.

nah. I started my career 200k/220k/275k. Those were my first 3 years earning plus losing 250k real cash in the housing crash plus the stock market cases.

And I still have 5 mil by age 50 plus a wife who doesn’t work and 2 kids.

I’m 20 plus years out In practice.

It’s really because I maxed out my retirement yearly from day 1. That is the key. It used to be 14k 401k max I think and 38k 415c limit 20 plus years ago

Just keep maxing out and u will easily have 3-4 million in retirement alone by age 50.

Remember the stock market crashed on me in 2008 and I lost a ton as well we the housing crash (I didn’t buy a house in 2002-2005 when the run up happen because I was saving). Stupid me.

So I still recovered.

 

[pgg]

Blade, do you advocate for crypto such as BTC, ETH, or DOGE in the case of excessive inflation of the US dollar?

Not Blade, but the way to hedge monetary inflation hasn't changed in 1000s of years: own non-currency assets.

Land, shares in companies that produce goods and services for profit, precious metals, there are many good options. The notion that accumulating crypto is the only way to hedge inflation or prepare for economic downturns is ridiculous. If you think a dollar collapse is imminent then the only assets to really avoid are cash dollars and bonds denominated in dollars.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Blade, do you advocate for crypto such as BTC, ETH, or DOGE in the case of excessive inflation of the US dollar?

For alternative assets you can set aside as much as 10% of a portfolio, but I recommend 5%. That means you can buy Gold, the coins or the ETF, Silver, etc or some Crypto like BTC or ETH. For an investor, I would stick with BTC using the ETFs from iShares or Fidelity. BTC is a speculative asset, even more so than gold, but the upside is certainly there longer term. I would limit BTC to no more than 2% of a portfolio because it is so speculative and unproven longer term.

For those that truly like to trade Crypto this bull market has been phenomenal. I have heard the ETH Etf is the next one to be approved so that may cause a 50% increase in ETH. Again, pure speculation with an unproven long term track record. For the record, I do own some BTC worth about 2% of my portfolio last week.

 

[finalpsychyear]

For alternative assets you can set aside as much as 10% of a portfolio, but I recommend 5%. That means you can buy Gold, the coins or the ETF, Silver, etc or some Crypto like BTC or ETH. For an investor, I would stick with BTC using the ETFs from iShares or Fidelity. BTC is a speculative asset, even more so than gold, but the upside is certainly there longer term. I would limit BTC to no more than 2% of a portfolio because it is so speculative and unproven longer term.

For those that truly like to trade Crypto this bull market has been phenomenal. I have heard the ETH Etf is the next one to be approved so that may cause a 50% increase in ETH. Again, pure speculation with an unproven long term track record. For the record, I do own some BTC worth about 2% of my portfolio last week.

Do you plan to sell btc at 100k or plan to hold on longer term?

 

[BLADEMDA]

 

[BLADEMDA]

One of my favorite scenes in "Succession" has the following conversation:

Greg: I'm good, anyway, cuz, uh, my, so, I was just talkin' to my mom, and she said, apparently, he'll leave me five million anyway, so I'm golden, baby.
Connor: You can't do anything with five, Greg. Five's a nightmare.
Greg: Is it?
Connor: Oh, yeah. Can't retire. Not worth it to work. Oh, yes, five will drive you un poco loco, my fine feathered friend.
Tom: The poorest rich person in America. The world's tallest dwarf.
Connor: The weakest strong man at the circus.

One of my favorite quotes from Munger was, “It’s not greed that drives the world, but envy.”

 

[finalpsychyear]

One of my favorite scenes in "Succession" has the following conversation:

Greg: I'm good, anyway, cuz, uh, my, so, I was just talkin' to my mom, and she said, apparently, he'll leave me five million anyway, so I'm golden, baby.
Connor: You can't do anything with five, Greg. Five's a nightmare.
Greg: Is it?
Connor: Oh, yeah. Can't retire. Not worth it to work. Oh, yes, five will drive you un poco loco, my fine feathered friend.
Tom: The poorest rich person in America. The world's tallest dwarf.
Connor: The weakest strong man at the circus.

One of my favorite quotes from Munger was, “It’s not greed that drives the world, but envy.”

Average Doctor Net Worth by Age - What Percent Are Millionaires? | White Coat Investor

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according to 2019 data.

basically age of doc and percentage with over 5m NW.

55-59 11%
60-64 15%
65-69 17%
70+ 22%

 

[Ezekiel2517]

One of my favorite scenes in "Succession" has the following conversation:

Greg: I'm good, anyway, cuz, uh, my, so, I was just talkin' to my mom, and she said, apparently, he'll leave me five million anyway, so I'm golden, baby.
Connor: You can't do anything with five, Greg. Five's a nightmare.
Greg: Is it?
Connor: Oh, yeah. Can't retire. Not worth it to work. Oh, yes, five will drive you un poco loco, my fine feathered friend.
Tom: The poorest rich person in America. The world's tallest dwarf.
Connor: The weakest strong man at the circus.

One of my favorite quotes from Munger was, “It’s not greed that drives the world, but envy.”

The characters in this scene (Connor and Tom) are billionaires. If Greg had said 7M, or 10M, etc... they would've scoffed at that too. It's peanuts to them. There's a scene in the show where Connor casually asks his Dad if he can hit him up "for a little 100 mil". At one point, Connor literally pays 500k for Napoleon's severed penis which turned out to be a fake. He pays 63M for Marcia and Logan's apartment on a whim. If anyone wants to get to that level of wealth, smart thing to do may be to copy Tom Wambsgans and marry a Shiv Roy and then sell your soul and bully and abuse anyone beneath you and suck up to anyone above you to climb corporate and social ladders to make it to the top at all costs.

 

[doctalaughs]

If your goal is building trust funds for your grandkids or buying ski chalets and beach front condos then by all means, shoot for that $10M.

I’m pretty sure having 10M dollars in net worth doesn’t put you in the “buying ski chalets AND beach front condos while piling on trust funds for the grandkids” crowd….

Sure it’s a lot of money - and yeah you might buy a small 2 BR ski condo 3 miles from a ski area as your “vacation home” and maybe take the grown kids on vacation occasionally and fly first class. But what I think of a ski “chalet” is slopeside at vail and probably goes for 20M+ so no, you are still not “ultra wealthy” to drop that type of money on a whim.

 

[BLADEMDA]

You can't do anything with five. Five's a nightmare.

That's Why you need 10 million to start the conversation.

 

[okayplayer]

Blade I love that you like Succession. My favorite show ever.

 

[GravelRider]

I’m pretty sure having 10M dollars in net worth doesn’t put you in the “buying ski chalets AND beach front condos while piling on trust funds for the grandkids” crowd….

Sure it’s a lot of money - and yeah you might buy a small 2 BR ski condo 3 miles from a ski area as your “vacation home” and maybe take the grown kids on vacation occasionally and fly first class. But what I think of a ski “chalet” is slopeside at vail and probably goes for 20M+ so no, you are still not “ultra wealthy” to drop that type of money on a whim.

Well I did say “or,” not “and.” You can build a trust fund or you can buy a nice second home.

Technically, a chalet is a style of house. It’s more of an architectural description. And yes, $10M still means you are not rubbing elbows with the billionaire class, so if that’s your wish then drop this medicine foolishness and go figure out a way to capture data so that you can send people advertisements. However, I’m pretty confident that you could find a nice vacation home with $10M in assets and not have to slum it with the poors in the condo complex.

My point is that $10M is WAY more money than most need to retire. If you need $10M then you either have a very expensive lifestyle to support or you want to indulge in some kind of luxury. To each his own. When you are trading time for money like we do in this profession, the decision of how much you need and when to stop working is a very personal one. The original question was if $10M would be enough to retire and for me it would be a resounding “absolutely.”

 

[doctalaughs]

Well I did say “or,” not “and.” You can build a trust fund or you can buy a nice second home.

Technically, a chalet is a style of house. It’s more of an architectural description. And yes, $10M still means you are not rubbing elbows with the billionaire class, so if that’s your wish then drop this medicine foolishness and go figure out a way to capture data so that you can send people advertisements. However, I’m pretty confident that you could find a nice vacation home with $10M in assets and not have to slum it with the poors in the condo complex.

My point is that $10M is WAY more money than most need to retire. If you need $10M then you either have a very expensive lifestyle to support or you want to indulge in some kind of luxury. To each his own. When you are trading time for money like we do in this profession, the decision of how much you need and when to stop working is a very personal one. The original question was if $10M would be enough to retire and for me it would be a resounding “absolutely.”

Just for fun I just checked Zillow for 2 bedroom plus condos and apartments within a 3 miles of vail. 2-7 million minimum, not slopeside and not houses (those are all 20 mill+).

I agree with your overall point that you don’t need 10 million to retire and it’s plenty of money, which you can live very nicely with.

All I’m saying is that there are a LOT of people who have a lot more money (and no - not the billionaires), and the typical 10 million retiree now (or in the next 10-20 years when all of us might retire) might have a modest apartment at keystone or leave some money to their kids. The ones with big 5 BR houses in vail, aspen etc and beachfront property in California are the investment bankers and big law partners, CEOs or MAYBE a few old-time physicians who accumulated wealth in the golden age of medicine and bought these types of things in the 80s/90s. These are the new class of truly 0.1%, not the billionaires - but definitely not the physician aiming for 10M which goes way less far than 20 or even 5 years ago.

 

[Ezekiel2517]

You can't do anything with five. Five's a nightmare.

That's Why you need 10 million to start the conversation.

10+ is doable for any anesthesiologist if that's what they want. Not that hard. It's not like it requires special talent or smarts. It differs for everyone, but there comes a point where time becomes the most valuable asset in life. I think Logan Roy (and all his kids for that matter) may have done things differently if they knew he was gonna die on the floor of an airplane bathroom from a massive PE.

 

[finalpsychyear]

10+ is doable for any anesthesiologist if that's what they want. Not that hard. It's not like it requires special talent or smarts. It differs for everyone, but there comes a point where time becomes the most valuable asset in life. I think Logan Roy (and all his kids for that matter) may have done things differently if they knew he was gonna die on the floor of an airplane bathroom from a massive PE.

10m is only significant if it can be attained in the next 5 years. Double bonus attaining it mid 40s. Otherwise your right its nothing special and most docs working 30 plus years as some specialist are already there. I dont want to be 60 plus and i realize the value will go down significantly in say 10 years from now thanks to our buddy inflation.

 

[pgg]

We bought our house a couple years ago but for some reason I keep getting real estate listings that match my search.

Anyway - got one yesterday for a 6000 sq ft 6 bedroom custom home on 30 acres with a year round river about 15 minutes from our ~450 bed hospital which is about 60 min from Washington DC and its two international airports. In a beautiful part of the country. $1.5 million.

LOL at all the suckers paying more than that for condos or townhomes in "desirable" cities because they want four 24/7 sushi options within walking distance.

Yeah $10M is the floor to not be a poor, sure.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Very few Anesthesiologists retire at age 50 or 55. If you can save up 10m+ by age 55 that's a significant financial goal. Even if you don't fully retire by age 55 the option to reduce your work load and go 1/2 time is a luxury many don't have in this field. Again, while 55 isn't FIRE it certainly better than the traditional age of 65 for retirement. I started a poll to see responses.

 

[Guillemot]

I know a few docs that have ski in ski out in Colorado. I think one Vail and one Aspen, one at Copper. They’re old and probably bought before real estate prices blew up over the last couple decades and/or inherited it. Too bad its out of reach these days. It would be an absolutely amazing dream come true for me.

 

[aneftp]

10+ is doable for any anesthesiologist if that's what they want. Not that hard. It's not like it requires special talent or smarts. It differs for everyone, but there comes a point where time becomes the most valuable asset in life. I think Logan Roy (and all his kids for that matter) may have done things differently if they knew he was gonna die on the floor of an airplane bathroom from a massive PE.

The stock market and housing market can and will go up and down.

It does take some luck to get to 10 million in 20
Years IF YOU have kids and in high cost of living area.

If u live in mid city like 250-500k people lost cost housing and earn 500k and up. U can get there

 

[doctalaughs]

I know a few docs that have ski in ski out in Colorado. I think one Vail and one Aspen, one at Copper. They’re old and probably bought before real estate prices blew up over the last couple decades and/or inherited it. Too bad its out of reach these days. It would be an absolutely amazing dream come true for me.

Yeah that’s reality. One of those properties is probably worth what any of us could earn over a career now, because the truly wealthy (the ones that don’t actually “work” for an income) can buy these things, so the price has become astronomical.

That’s how the rich can get richer with ease, once you hit a certain point (that most doctors don’t).

 

[kidthor]

Speaking of all of this... Has anyone really had any legit way to earn "passive income" aside from stocks or personal rental properties? I keep wanting to invest in something - real estate syndications, tangible (or semi-tangible) assets (e.g. farmland, mineral rights, etc), or venture funds... but everything ends up seeming scammy and all of these entities charge a bunch of nonsense fees. Am I missing something obvious, or do I simply have to know someone who knows someone and luck out in an investment opportunity, vs sticking to the tried and true stocks or rentals?

 

[GravelRider]

Speaking of all of this... Has anyone really had any legit way to earn "passive income" aside from stocks or personal rental properties? I keep wanting to invest in something - real estate syndications, tangible (or semi-tangible) assets (e.g. farmland, mineral rights, etc), or venture funds... but everything ends up seeming scammy and all of these entities charge a bunch of nonsense fees. Am I missing something obvious, or do I simply have to know someone who knows someone and luck out in an investment opportunity, vs sticking to the tried and true stocks or rentals?

If there was a way then everyone would be doing it. All of those things you mention probably carry a lot more risk and a lot less upside than just plunking your money in a boring old index fund. Plopping a chunk of money into a money market fund generates you 5% in extremely low risk, passive income. I’m also not so sure how “passive” real estate is. Sure, if you’ve established a large real estate business and have subcontractors and employees managing your rentals it can be pretty passive, but being the landlord for 1 or 2 rentals can be pretty time-consuming.

 

[BLADEMDA]

Speaking of all of this... Has anyone really had any legit way to earn "passive income" aside from stocks or personal rental properties? I keep wanting to invest in something - real estate syndications, tangible (or semi-tangible) assets (e.g. farmland, mineral rights, etc), or venture funds... but everything ends up seeming scammy and all of these entities charge a bunch of nonsense fees. Am I missing something obvious, or do I simply have to know someone who knows someone and luck out in an investment opportunity, vs sticking to the tried and true stocks or rentals?

My colleagues have invested in apartment complexes with good passive income.

 

[emergentmd]

ER perspective here. 52 right at 11M with 60% in RE. I stopped working in the hospital Pit so work is more fun than work so probably work one day a week until I can't. Youngest still in middle school so no point in retiring if I can't travel the world. Playing a good amount of golf, taking more trips, being involved with my kids sports has been really fun. I feel like I am retired, choosing to work alittle and do my side gigs.

I could sell a few properties, be RE debt free, and have about 200K/yr cash flow. My goal is to not touch retirement at all and let it grow living off RE income. Goal is to pay off current RE debt and cash flow 300K/yr which is about how much I would need when kids are all done with college.

RE is great b/c even when you retire, its great for passive income essentially replacing one ER doc salary. Good to have someone else fund my retirement.

Goal is to get to 20M by 60, 40M by 70.

 

[emergentmd]

My colleagues have invested in apartment complexes with good passive income.

I am building close to 1M into these and should be a great passive income. Hope to get to 2M and achieve 150K/yr passive income.

 

[Bryan O’Blivion]

I have a fraction of that, have gone part time, and feel incredibly lucky. No debt, house paid off. Good enough for me.

 

[Gern Blansten]

I have a fraction of that, have gone part time, and feel incredibly lucky. No debt, house paid off. Good enough for me.

It’s all about living within means. As long as we adjust down the lifestyle, we could likely all retire at 55.
It’s just that you’ve laid the foundation after years of training and your best earning years are still ahead of you, so it’s hard for someone to just walk away at that point. It’s leaving a lot of potential dollars on the table. Plus, in all likelihood, most of us would be bored after a few months. I personally enjoy having something to get up in the morning for. I hope to gradually dial it back in a few years, as many have described.

 

[GassYous]

I have a fraction of that, have gone part time, and feel incredibly lucky. No debt, house paid off. Good enough for me.

It's not about having a lot, it's about having enough

 

[finalpsychyear]

10m liquid in index funds paying close to 1.5% dividend like VTI. That's a 150k plus the 5-7% yearly return. So in a rough stock year you spend the dividend and take out 1.5% SWR which all comes out to 300k. In most average years u can take out including dividend close to 400-500k. You still won't touch the principal. Sounds too easy well except the 10m liquid part in the first place.

 

[finalpsychyear]

Assuming you're just living off your investments. Capital gains is zero for first $94k if you're married. Then 15% on the long term capital gains up to like 500k. So let's say you have 300% capital appreciation on the remaining 206k you would need to withdraw (the original investment was 50k and it grew to 200k), you would only pay a little over 22.5k in taxes that year. (15% of 150k)

Pretty small for someone spending 300k/yr IMO. I think that is important perspective to have.

great point people forget to think about. if your pulling out 200k from investments probably on the worse side would it be half principal and half gains. So the first 100k is principal lets say and then then next 100 is capital gains. You effectively pay very close to 0 in such a scenario.
Then assuming its all gains and you have no other income you gets like 0 percent on the first 125k since the standard deduction is 30k for a married couple. so 200k withdrawn even if it was all gains you pay a 10k federal tax on it. not bad mate. Likely to be less since some will be principal.

 

[pgg]

It’s all about living within means. As long as we adjust down the lifestyle, we could likely all retire at 55.

Perspective is funny and sometimes a little weird here.

I retired from the Navy a couple years ago and get a pension now that's around $70K/year. (Plus cheap health care.)

Naturally I have other savings and investments, not to mention income as an anesthesiologist, or eventual inheritance. But not even counting any of that, the pension alone surpasses what most Americans retire on.