Why do people emigrate?

[Big-george]

why do people leave India? is grass really greener abroad?

Indians think the grass is greener is US.
In reality many Indian doctors study abroad and go back to India as in India
they are "god" and god is rich. Many earn far more then in the US.
It is amazing.
I had this experience last January when in India.
It was shocked. They also come up with utter rubbish saying that
they were the first doc in India to do this procedure etc.

But, there are many good doctors in India and you can get very good treatment, if you find the right doc.
Then again there are many greedy ones who do any test to earn extra.

Why do they emigrate? They think USA is great. They watch too much hoolywood and want to copy USA.

They do so blindly. Indians try and copy the accent and the spelling.
Many Indians cannot even spell "colour" they think it's "color".

Their English has also become worse.
They think "how are you doing" makes sense. Of course, that is grammatical nonsense.

They say "return back". Can you return forward? etc etc
They copy anything American, thinking it's great.
When they arrive, it's a shock.
They cannot get girl friends as in the films and
they realise that healthcare for main stream Americans is poor.
The mortality rate for children is poor compared to Europe etc etc.
Too much hollywood!

By and large they think they get a better life!

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[maestro1625]

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[*TRINITY*]

I'm US born and raised and I plan on moving to India (eventually) after medical training.

you mean after completing medical studies in USA? why do you want to move to india?

 

[*TRINITY*]

.
It took that first generation of Indian emigres about 30 years to realise that the grass was greener, but not sweeter, in the US/Australia/UK/Canada etc.

well thats interesting! why wasn't it sweeter?

 

[*TRINITY*]

I beleive that everyone should follow thier dreams and whatever they enjoy. There are thousands of reasons why people immigrate to foreign countries. Here are some reasons what i think are most significant. Opportunity(Dreams)

what opportunities are you talking about? we all know that FMGs dont have opportunities equal to that of AMG.

nice surrounding i mean people who are very nice, supportive, competitive, and respect you whether you are rich,poor, black or white.

have ever faced racism?

Also, look at the types of crimes people commit in india. It is so shocking when you watch the TV programs they show on Indian channels. Crime is everywhere and it will be but you don't want those horrific crimes to occur against your children or family.

your statement is self contradictory, what is the point? do you want to say that crimes people commit in india are more horrific?

I mean some people especially who don't get the chance or opportuity to go abroad become jealous towards the people who immigrate to foriegn countries. What is wrong if someone has the chance to go to; for example America, and work for 5-8 years make 50-70 lakhs (considering minimum wage and uneducated people). I don't think these uneducated people can earn this much amount of money if they work non-stop until they die. People in India say that he/she sacrificed the 5-8 years of his or her life just for money. But they don't think that one man's sacrifice can built a strong platform for the whole family. They can live the life they always wanted, they dreamt of.

very good point indeed.

You don't want to sit around at one place and waste your priceless life. Life is to explore yourself and your abilities and if u can do that successfully then i can gaurantee you will feel happy and satisfied at the end of your journey.

quite true!

 

[*TRINITY*]

as far as "proper taste of india" - yes, that would be a great reason to try to go back for things like religion, culture, language. but please don't be fooled if you think of india being better for kids in terms of "good influence on kids". the things i've personally seen and heard about teenagers or young adults in india is probably just as bad if not the same as in the US. indians in the US try MUCH harder to keep their children in tune with the culture and morals than people in india (b/c its taken forgranted...and then indian kids want to emulate the western culture). its an interesting phenomenon.

 

[*TRINITY*]

no.we like wasting money and time, and hate the comfort of family,friends and familiar surroundings.
and we like the coffee they serve in the US consulates..

so is it really worth it?

 

[*TRINITY*]

The JW Marriott in Juhu kicks ass

even after spending so many years in mumbai i havent yet visited that place... average med students or docs cant afford to go to those five star places

 

[*TRINITY*]

hey guys..don't you think its silly to get sooo stressed out thinking in terms of narrow political borders created by those bloody british?? i mean, come on!india and pakistan can keep bitch-slapping each other, but it is actually the poms who are to blame for bending india over and $cr#wing it senseless..they are the true tyrants.don't forget jalianwalla bagh, and the countless similar atrocities they committed over the 300 years.we do not remember,because public memory is short.fight the pakis? bah!what can pakistan give india that we don't already have? better try to get the british to return at least a percentage of the resources they stole from us(both india and pak) to make theirs a "developed" nation..

now when you finally wrap your brains around that one, think a moment of each and every battle-ground on earth..millions died for expanding kingdoms which barely lasted a few hundred years..and for what?to feed their king's greed.as of today who(apart from historians- morbid curiosity,i say!) cares from where to where King/Sultan XYZ's kingdom extended..and if we are (un)fortunate enough to live for another 100 years, we might see the fall/integration of both our countries.

one would think education(being doctors) would also give the rabid pro- and anti- ones some sense of perspective..we,of all people, should have the ability to see beyond man made differences(nation, religion) to appreciate how similar all people are within.what matters in the is not where you choose to practice.after all, if you are going to be a doctor in the US, its not as if there are no sick people here, or that they are all rich,and so deserve to die.what matters is how sincerely and honestly you do practice to the best of your ability. just because you return to india(or whatever specific region you choose to foam in the mouth over) doesn't make you a good human being.

instead of hoping all doctors return to india, i hope only those who are any good return. we have enough home-grown charlatans robbing the rich and the poor alike. i hope that those who return do so of their own free wil..and those who do stay back, please remember the ideals of medicine, and First, do no harm.

its so insanely funny!

 

[*TRINITY*]

I mean just compared to 10 years back, there are not so many people emigrating out of India now... because of so many more opportunities.

how do you know that? i have reason to believe in phenomenon exactly opposite to what you have described.

 

[*TRINITY*]

Hi there,
Interesting discussion,
I think the main reason for people not able to adjust to India is the social system, the corruption and Lack of infrastructure. When I was in India last time, there were frequent electricity cuts, biting mosquitoes, and it used to take me 5 minutes just to open the Yahoo home page , and the internet connection used to get disrupted without any rhyme or reason, just like the electricity.So, though I, like every Hindustani, want to go back to India at some point, these things seem to dampen my morale.
It all seems nice to read on paper about brain drain, and that young professionals must return back to India etc etc, but where is the basic infrastructure?? Also, all is not as rosy as it seems with medicine in India. There is lot of malpractice, government hospitals are crap and without any facilities, and private practice is dominated by politics, casteism and giving undertable commission for referring patients.
I hope this clears the doubts of American Desis about Why Indian Desis want to come to America.
Cheers

yeah you have pretty much explained the reasons why people usually emigrate but question which has been nagging me since long time is - "is it really worth all the pains and miseries young professional go through while emigrating to land of opportunities?". most of us have learned to live with the all problems India to the extent that they are no longer problems to us... ... yeah i'm not joking... i dont want to go to USA to escape mosquitoes...

are there people on this forum who have emigrated to USA after their graduate studies in India? what do they feel about their decisions? are they happy or are there any regrets?

 

[$!n!$+er]

why do people leave India? is grass really greener abroad?

yeah certainly it appears to be so if you talking purely in terms of money and material comforts. Look doctors on an average earn around 150,000 $ PA. If you convert that sum into INR after adjusting for Purchasing power parity (PPP) you earn 18.7 lakh rupees PA. It means you can lead a life style affordable in India at 18.7 lakh rupees. how many fresh MDs/MSs/DNBs do earn that sort of money in India. i think even after many years of practice a minority of them reach that figure. USA as you may have learned in PSM is zillions times better than India in terms of HDI. Day to day life more comfortable and relatively hassle free. These two reasons are powerful enough to make people move out of India and they are so strong that the problems like racism, discrimination look miniscule. There is no place on earth wehre discrimination is non existent.
finally its you who have decide what you want? dont do something just because many others are doing. understand your own needs. If your ambition is to make big money and lead a materially comfortable life then USA provides you a very good opportunity to do that with earnest means.

- Gaurav

 

[RTQPCR]

you mean after completing medical studies in USA? why do you want to move to india?

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11571348/site/newsweek/from/ET/


Because I want to be in the thick of this, eventually, don't know when but certainly not right after studies/residency. A bit after.


​

 

[$!n!$+er]

^^^what a crap! things like that are never gonna happen in India for a zillion years atleast.

 

[RTQPCR]

^^^what a crap! things like that are never gonna happen in India for a zillion years atleast.

well....at the least I could cultivate my silver haze, herrer, and w. nelson in peace

 

[$!n!$+er]

well....at the least I could cultivate my silver haze, herrer, and w. nelson in peace

 

[uhoh!]

its so insanely funny!

...Yeeeaaaah. I might have got carried away there a liiiiiitle bit.. Really, there should be a disclaimer button for every piece of trash to emerge from an Alcohol/ THC / Exam-addled mind..And, sadly, mine was the latter..

But to stick to the topic of this thread..
Did you know that there is a legislation under discussion in the US Senate which looks to reform immigration laws to attract and keep Professionals who are trained and work in the US? It seems that the numbers of professionals who get grad degrees and work experience in the US and then leave to return to India/China (mainly) has reached a point where some feel the need to lay out incentives to stay back in the US..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/28/AR2006032800364.html
I think its interesting to see even the US has an "E-migration" problem, and is also concerned about a "brain-drain" of sorts..

 

[tikiman]

kashmir should be a part of Pakistan! Cuz of:
-muslim majority
- kashmiris would rather be with Pakistan than India. ( after all, Indians has only killed like 70,000 kashmiris, most of whom were innocent)
- in 1947, kashmir was decided to be a part of Pakistan.

 

[gwen]

ummm, i may not agree with what most people have to say on this forum, but being a 100% kashmiri (born and raised), i have to say, you are a total dumba$$. although i have some concerns about how the indian govt has handled the kashmiri migrants and the kashmir situation in general, i totally and completely disagree with you. if india really cared about kashmir and kashmiris, it should have completely kicked the **** out of pakistan in 1989 (it can...it just doesn't because it believes in peace). but for pakistan to claim anything...haha...boy, you asked for it. i think its important for dumba$$es like you to learn...so here we go...

Here's why Kashmir belongs to India & not Pakistan:

1 - Pakistan says it cares about the Kashmiris yet Pakistan gave 1/3 of Kashmir to China. Thanks to Pakistan China actually controls 1/3 of Kashmir. Now if Pakistan really cared about the Kashmiris why would they give up their land like that?

2 - At the time of partition both Pakistan & India agreed to let all the small rulers decide which country they wanted to be apart of. But the ruler of Kashmir was a prince named Hari Singh & he wasn't sure. So instead of waiting like they agreed to, Pakistan invaded Kashmir & took half of the land ilegally...Is that fair?...And can you imagine what Pakis would say if India did that? The funny thing is they're still fighting for more land when they illegally took half!

3 - Pakistan says Kashmiris aren't being treated equally because there Muslim. Now INDIA has the 2nd largest Muslim population in the world with over 200 million Muslims & most of them have no problem with INDIA. So why would they be cool with all the other Muslims except for the ones in Kashmir?

4 - INDIA even has a MUSLIM PRESIDENT! If INDIA didn't like Muslims why would they have a Muslim president? And why would a Muslim president be unfair to Muslim Kashmiris? Can you imagine a non-Muslim leader in Pakistan? They would be dead.

5 - Pakistan claims that people should be free if they want to be free....Yet Pakistan has 2 groups of people called the Balochis & the Pashtuns that want to seperate from Pakistan & have their own homeland....Take a wild freaking guess if Pakistan let's them have their own homeland...The answer is NO...Can anyone say contradiction?

6 - Also if Pakistan really cared about the Kashmiris why would they send in Islamic terror groups all over Kashmir? These groups kill, rape, & torture Kashmiris that either want to side with India or want to become independent...Can somebody explain that to me?

So why does Pakistan really want Kashmir?

It's because of the Rann of Kutch. Pakistan wants to control the water supply. That's also why there fighting for a small piece of land in Gujarat....See there's a river called the INDUS river that starts in Kashmir & ends in Gujarat & whoever controls these 2 lands controls the water supply. I mean out of the whole border Pakistan only wants 2 areas of land & coincidentaly thats where the water starts & ends. I mean why else would they be fighting for a piece of land in Gujarat? Do they want to free the Gujaratis too?

You know what's funny? Remember the whole Israeli & Palestinian conflict? Most Muslims say that Palestine should get the all the lands because they were here before the Jews right? Well when it comes to Kashmir weren't the Indians here first?

Now do you see why Kashmir belongs to India? I mean anyone that says it belongs to Pakistan needs to read more before they form their dumba$$ opinion. You are probably one of those paranoid brainwashed schizophrenics. Get a life and get out of the India forum.

kashmir should be a part of Pakistan! Cuz of:
-muslim majority
- kashmiris would rather be with Pakistan than India. ( after all, Indians has only killed like 70,000 kashmiris, most of whom were innocent)
- in 1947, kashmir was decided to be a part of Pakistan.

 

[uhoh!]

..

Get a life and get out of the India forum.

Absolutely!!

 

[tikiman]

ummm, i may not agree with what most people have to say on this forum, but being a 100% kashmiri (born and raised), i have to say, you are a total dumba$$. although i have some concerns about how the indian govt has handled the kashmiri migrants and the kashmir situation in general, i totally and completely disagree with you. if india really cared about kashmir and kashmiris, it should have completely kicked the **** out of pakistan in 1989 (it can...it just doesn't because it believes in peace). but for pakistan to claim anything...haha...boy, you asked for it. i think its important for dumba$$es like you to learn...so here we go...

Here's why Kashmir belongs to India & not Pakistan:

1 - Pakistan says it cares about the Kashmiris yet Pakistan gave 1/3 of Kashmir to China. Thanks to Pakistan China actually controls 1/3 of Kashmir. Now if Pakistan really cared about the Kashmiris why would they give up their land like that?

2 - At the time of partition both Pakistan & India agreed to let all the small rulers decide which country they wanted to be apart of. But the ruler of Kashmir was a prince named Hari Singh & he wasn't sure. So instead of waiting like they agreed to, Pakistan invaded Kashmir & took half of the land ilegally...Is that fair?...And can you imagine what Pakis would say if India did that? The funny thing is they're still fighting for more land when they illegally took half!

3 - Pakistan says Kashmiris aren't being treated equally because there Muslim. Now INDIA has the 2nd largest Muslim population in the world with over 200 million Muslims & most of them have no problem with INDIA. So why would they be cool with all the other Muslims except for the ones in Kashmir?

4 - INDIA even has a MUSLIM PRESIDENT! If INDIA didn't like Muslims why would they have a Muslim president? And why would a Muslim president be unfair to Muslim Kashmiris? Can you imagine a non-Muslim leader in Pakistan? They would be dead.

5 - Pakistan claims that people should be free if they want to be free....Yet Pakistan has 2 groups of people called the Balochis & the Pashtuns that want to seperate from Pakistan & have their own homeland....Take a wild freaking guess if Pakistan let's them have their own homeland...The answer is NO...Can anyone say contradiction?

6 - Also if Pakistan really cared about the Kashmiris why would they send in Islamic terror groups all over Kashmir? These groups kill, rape, & torture Kashmiris that either want to side with India or want to become independent...Can somebody explain that to me?

So why does Pakistan really want Kashmir?

It's because of the Rann of Kutch. Pakistan wants to control the water supply. That's also why there fighting for a small piece of land in Gujarat....See there's a river called the INDUS river that starts in Kashmir & ends in Gujarat & whoever controls these 2 lands controls the water supply. I mean out of the whole border Pakistan only wants 2 areas of land & coincidentaly thats where the water starts & ends. I mean why else would they be fighting for a piece of land in Gujarat? Do they want to free the Gujaratis too?

You know what's funny? Remember the whole Israeli & Palestinian conflict? Most Muslims say that Palestine should get the all the lands because they were here before the Jews right? Well when it comes to Kashmir weren't the Indians here first?

Now do you see why Kashmir belongs to India? I mean anyone that says it belongs to Pakistan needs to read more before they form their dumba$$ opinion. You are probably one of those paranoid brainwashed schizophrenics. Get a life and get out of the India forum.

... interesting story gwen... but i am not sure that i believe it all...also the story might come out different if u were a kashmiri MUSLIM cuz we all know that how our difference of religions dramatically influences our thought patterns.... plus i am no more of a "paranoid brainwashed schizophrenic" than any other south asian

a.k.a. You shouldn't be really cussing on the forum or doing personal attacks as it is clearly against the rules... This is or was a civilized conversation so let's keep it that way.

 

[$!n!$+er]

So why does Pakistan really want Kashmir?

It's because of the Rann of Kutch. Pakistan wants to control the water supply. That's also why there fighting for a small piece of land in Gujarat....See there's a river called the INDUS river that starts in Kashmir & ends in Gujarat & whoever controls these 2 lands controls the water supply.

Pls get your facts right.

Indus (Sindhu) river doesnt start in Kashmir. It originates from a plateau near Kailash Mansarvor which is in Tibet.

After crossing Kashmir Indus runs it entire remaining course in Pakistan. Gujarat and Runn of Kutch doesnt come in picture at all.

India has Indus water treaty with pakistan. and i dont think there is great deal of disagreement on the issue. Nonetheless question of water security is only a part of broader geopolitcally significant issue. Kashmir is strategically situated in Central Asia. Control of this area is going to be of great significance in coming years when global power centre shifts to China and other Asian countries.

- Gaurav "pakistan hater " Sharma

 

[$!n!$+er]

kashmir should be a part of Pakistan! Cuz of:
-muslim majority
- kashmiris would rather be with Pakistan than India. ( after all, Indians has only killed like 70,000 kashmiris, most of whom were innocent)
- in 1947, kashmir was decided to be a part of Pakistan

there is a basic flow in the basis on which Pakistan was created. Basis for creation was separate "secular" (you should know that architect of Pakistan - Dr Jinnah was a great secularist) homeland for muslims. The logic behind this funda was that in indpendent india dominated by hindus rights of muslim minority which ruled india before britishers would not be guarded. Thats why pakistan was carved out of India. But the 1971 and separation of erstwhile east pakistan or the nowaday Bangladesh had proved that this ideology was flawed only religion cant be the sole basis of formation of a separate state. Therefore the is no point in saying that Kashmir should go to pakistan. why dont pakistan merge themselves with Iran if we were to apply same logic???

1947 referundum which you hiting actually voted for Independence rather than siding with pakistan. But given the geopolitical situation an independent state in ther region is not viable. Jammu and Kashmir is not an ordinary Indian state it has a special status and power within Indian constitution based on the agreement between King of J&K and Indian government.

when your finding a terrorist there are bound to be some civilian casualties... there is hardly any disputed area in the where the rights of local masses havent been protected... i agree there had been atrocities and incidence of violence but you shouldnt forget the foreign militant and terrorist sent by Pakistan share equal responsibilty in this human tragedy. Pakistan have shown us how much they care about Kashmiris by making life of ordinary kasmiris more miserable by terrorism. Kashmiri Pandits and hindu community of kashimir has shared equal brunt of dispute. and from where do you pull out that figure of 70000?

... interesting story gwen... but i am not sure that i believe it all...also the story might come out different if u were a kashmiri MUSLIM cuz we all know that how our difference of religions dramatically influences our thought patterns.....

Its not a story dude they are bare facts we are not talking about opinions here.

 

[tikiman]

"from where do you pull out that figure of 70000?"

i got it from Paki news n stuff cuz they said that the number of kashmiri deaths since this kashmiri war started has reached 70,000.

 

[*TRINITY*]

yeah certainly it appears to be so if you talking purely in terms of money and material comforts. Look doctors on an average earn around 150,000 $ PA. If you convert that sum into INR after adjusting for Purchasing power parity (PPP) you earn 18.7 lakh rupees PA. It means you can lead a life style affordable in India at 18.7 lakh rupees. how many fresh MDs/MSs/DNBs do earn that sort of money in India. i think even after many years of practice a minority of them reach that figure. USA as you may have learned in PSM is zillions times better than India in terms of HDI. Day to day life more comfortable and relatively hassle free. These two reasons are powerful enough to make people move out of India and they are so strong that the problems like racism, discrimination look miniscule. There is no place on earth wehre discrimination is non existent.
finally its you who have decide what you want? dont do something just because many others are doing. understand your own needs. If your ambition is to make big money and lead a materially comfortable life then USA provides you a very good opportunity to do that with earnest means.

- Gaurav

you got a pont there..

 

[*TRINITY*]

...Yeeeaaaah. I might have got carried away there a liiiiiitle bit.. Really, there should be a disclaimer button for every piece of trash to emerge from an Alcohol/ THC / Exam-addled mind..And, sadly, mine was the latter..

But to stick to the topic of this thread..
Did you know that there is a legislation under discussion in the US Senate which looks to reform immigration laws to attract and keep Professionals who are trained and work in the US? It seems that the numbers of professionals who get grad degrees and work experience in the US and then leave to return to India/China (mainly) has reached a point where some feel the need to lay out incentives to stay back in the US..
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/03/28/AR2006032800364.html
I think its interesting to see even the US has an "E-migration" problem, and is also concerned about a "brain-drain" of sorts..

i guess that no brain drain but brain scarcity.... anyway the article is about techies... not doctors I guess.



and people plz try to understand that the this is no Indo-Pak discussion thread neither this forum is place to discuss these issues.

 

[gwen]

sinister, you are right. i had misspoken. i should have added that one of indus' branches, the jhelum, starts in kashmir. but the indus certainly passes through kashmir and has been a significant (not the only, obviously) cause of indo-pak tensions. thanks for reminding me of the indus water treaty. i'm adding it at the bottom for others to read and understand.

"After the partition of India in 1947, the use of the waters of the Indus and its five eastern tributaries became a major dispute between India and Pakistan. The irrigation canals of the Sutlej valley and the Bari Doab were split - with the canals lying primarily in Pakistan and the headwork dams in India - disrupting supply in some parts of Pakistan. The concern over India building large dams over various Punjab rivers that could undercut the supply flowing to Pakistan, as well as the possibility that India could divert rivers in the time of war, caused political consternation in Pakistan. Holding diplomatic talks brokered by the World Bank, India and Pakistan signed the Indus Waters Treaty in 1960. The treaty gave India the control of the three easternmost rivers of the Punjab, Sutlej, Beas and the Ravi, while Pakistan gained control of of the three western rivers, Jhelum, Chenab and the Indus. India retained the right to use of the western rivers for non irrigation projects."

Pls get your facts right.

Indus (Sindhu) river doesnt start in Kashmir. It originates from a plateau near Kailash Mansarvor which is in Tibet.

After crossing Kashmir Indus runs it entire remaining course in Pakistan. Gujarat and Runn of Kutch doesnt come in picture at all.

India has Indus water treaty with pakistan. and i dont think there is great deal of disagreement on the issue. Nonetheless question of water security is only a part of broader geopolitcally significant issue. Kashmir is strategically situated in Central Asia. Control of this area is going to be of great significance in coming years when global power centre shifts to China and other Asian countries.

- Gaurav "pakistan hater " Sharma

 

[$!n!$+er]

"from where do you pull out that figure of 70000?"

i got it from Paki news n stuff cuz they said that the number of kashmiri deaths since this kashmiri war started has reached 70,000.

now read your own words

... interesting story ... but i am not sure that i believe it all...also the story might come out different if u were a kashmiri MUSLIM cuz we all know that how our difference of religions dramatically influences our thought patterns.... plus i am no more of a "paranoid brainwashed schizophrenic" than any other south asian

 

[*TRINITY*]

Gaurav, pls dont waste your energy on trolls and ******s. stick to the topic of this thread.