What personality should a female surgeon possess?

[oldbearprofessor]

you also believe that all illegal immigrants healthcare should be paid for by society, and likely believe in single payer healthcare, we will just have to agree to disagree.

You have said this repeatedly in almost every thread that I have participated in. I would prefer your accurately reflect what I believe on this forum. Here goes:

"I support the right of all children to have health care access, regardless of theirs or their parents financial standing or immigration status."

I fully support this AAP statement which provides details.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2010/03/29/peds.2010-0235.full.pdf

Now then, about health care reform. I have no publicly stated opinion (nor does the AAP) on single payer healthcare, nor am I a member of any organization that I know about that advocates for it. I am not interested in discussing my personal view on health care reform, but you might expect that if I believed in single payer as a major theme of my beliefs, I would be discussing it publicly as I'm not shy about my opinions.

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[RJGOP]

So are you completely against welfare then?

Too many people abuse it. I'm not 100% against it but there should be some regulations and requirements in terms of how often you should interview for jobs etc. Some people need it, and they try their best to stay off of it. But most people just figure they'll stay on it. The government is giving them everything, why should they care?

 

[DermViser]

You have said this repeatedly in almost every thread that I have participated in. I would prefer your accurately reflect what I believe on this forum. Here goes:

"I support the right of all children to have health care access, regardless of theirs or their parents financial standing or immigration status."

I fully support this AAP statement which provides details.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/early/2010/03/29/peds.2010-0235.full.pdf

Now then, about health care reform. I have no publicly stated opinion (nor does the AAP) on single payer healthcare, nor am I a member of any organization that I know about that advocates for it. I am not interested in discussing my personal view on health care reform, but you might expect that if I believed in single payer as a major theme of my beliefs, I would be discussing it publicly as I'm not shy about my opinions.

That's why I said LIKELY.

My point is you believe that people regardless if they are illegal immigrants should receive healthcare services REGARDLESS of their ability to pay for it (either by cash or insurance) , which means then that bill would then be then footed by the taxpayer, which you are perfectly ok with.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

And it's no surprise at all then, why medical specialty societies like the AAP have no clout on Capitol Hill.

This year I have spoken about health care issues of importance to pediatricians on Capitol Hill on behalf of the AAP. Although you are entitled to your opinion, the idea that the AAP has no clout on Capitol Hill is not consistent with my personal experience. As always, on pure opinion issues like this, you are entitled to disagree.

 

[DermViser]

This year I have spoken about health care issues of importance to pediatricians on Capitol Hill on behalf of the AAP. Although you are entitled to your opinion, the idea that the AAP has no clout on Capitol Hill is not consistent with my personal experience. As always, on pure opinion issues like this, you are entitled to disagree.

You are perfectly allowed to talk and testify. That's not at all what I am talking about. But as always we will always disagree on your opinion on this issue.

 

[JP2740]

Needle Exchange Programs are supported by many medical professional societies including American Psychiatric Association, the AMA, American Academy of Psychiatrists in Alcoholism and Addiction, American Society of Addiction Medicine.

Not commenting on the issue at hand here, but the AMA is garbage

 

[oldbearprofessor]

You are perfectly allowed to talk and testify. That's not at all what I am talking about. But as always we will always disagree on your opinion on this issue.

Okay, I'm game, you said the AAP had no clout with congress, I said that I disagreed. If the issue wasn't about the AAP's "clout" what was it about?

 

[Doudline]

no. you're misrepresenting intent. when I prescribe X pill for patient, it's with the intent that they will take it at my recommended dosages. it's not my fault if they take the whole bottle in one sitting and something happens to them. When you give them a needle, your intent is to allow them to use it in their illegal drug usage. you are commiting a crime. don't make me bring law2doc in here.

Not what I meant.

Needles have a variety of uses. Saline injections (penis, muscles, etc), skill practice for health professionals (with empty needles), food stuffing (e.g. you could inject wine into your stuffed chicken)... all of these are legal. Of course, they could also be used to inject oneself illegal drugs. But can you prove that that is the goal?

Before a 2003 judgement by the Supreme Court, sodomy was illegal in 14 states. So, if you say that the presumption of illegal use of needles is enough to warrant legal complicity for the provider, you should also have supported, back during the AIDS crisis, the illegal nature of condoms distribution to the homosexual males community, which has a high incidence of sodomy practice. Alternatively, if you provide them medical care, you are also increasing the odds that they will survive and spread their infection, i.e. you are an accomplice.

Do you see where this kind of thinking leads? No court can hold you criminally responsible for providing goods that COULD be used illegally.
It wouldn't make any sense anyway. You're only using a strawman.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

Needle Exchange Programs are supported by many medical professional societies including American Psychiatric Association, the AMA, American Academy of Psychiatrists in Alcoholism and Addiction, American Society of Addiction Medicine.

It took me a while to find the reference, but you can add the American Academy of Pediatrics to this list.

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/117/2/566.abstract

Older statement, but reaffirmed twice and is thus still active policy.

 

[NontradCA]

Why is needle exchange such a big issue? Yes drugs are illegal but beneficence is at play here. Reducing Hep C outweighs the "accomplice" aspect of giving IV drug users clean needles.

If anything conservatives should be questioning federal laws as its big government telling us what we can and cannot do. It perplexes me that conservatives don't rally behind citizens who oppose the broken justice system. This should be at the forefront of political issues.

 

[Southplains]

Why is needle exchange such a big issue? Yes drugs are illegal but beneficence is at play here. Reducing Hep C outweighs the "accomplice" aspect of giving IV drug users clean needles.

If anything conservatives should be questioning federal laws as its big government telling us what we can and cannot do. It perplexes me that conservatives don't rally behind citizens who oppose the broken justice system. This should be at the forefront of political issues.

I don't get it either, I really would have guessed support of needle exchange programs would be a slam dunk for people in health care. The only arguments against supporting them have attacked things like it being criminal (which it's obviously not, these things exist and their workers aren't facing any charges for it), that we're advocating drug use or want to make it completely legalized (which has not been said by anyone), or we think NEPs reduce actual drug usage (which is not the express purpose of the program).

 

[NontradCA]

That's why I said LIKELY.

My point is you believe that people regardless if they are illegal immigrants should receive healthcare services REGARDLESS of their ability to pay for it (either by cash or insurance) , which means then that bill would then be then footed by the taxpayer, which you are perfectly ok with.

Why are you ok with spending billions of dollars putting drug users in prison, but not ok with spending the same on poor children's health? Denying them healthcare will just cost more money in the future.

Then you're surprised when they don't grow up to be productive individuals.

 

[DermViser]

Why are you ok with spending billions of dollars with putting drug users in prison, but not ok with spending the same on poor children's health? Denying them healthcare will just cost more money in the future.

That quote was not referring AT ALL to drug abuse. It was OldBearProfessor's opinion. He believes all costs for everyone should be paid for even if they all claim that they can't afford it. He doesn't care who ends up paying for it, but does believe it should be paid for.

 

[NontradCA]

That quote was not referring AT ALL to drug abuse. It was OldBearProfessor's opinion. He believes all costs for everyone should be paid for even if they all claim that they can't afford it. He doesn't care who ends up paying for it, but does believe it should be paid for.

?
You are not ok with funding illegals' healthcare.

You are ok with funding prison sentences.

Yes they are separate issues but it's the same pot of money.

 

[DermViser]

?
You are not ok with funding illegals' healthcare.

You are ok with funding prison sentences.

Yes they are separate issues but it's the same pot of money.

Illegal immigrants who don't have health insurance (one of many issues with respect to illegal immigration) is one issue. Going to prison is a fact of life of society. People in society commit crimes - many of which have prison and/or the death penalty as punishment. Looking at things solely through a monetary prism (and nothing else) is absolutely foolish and which I have not done esp. with regards to the issue being talked about which is needle exchange.

 

[NontradCA]

Illegal immigrants who don't have health insurance (one of many issues with respect to illegal immigration) is one issue. Going to prison is a fact of life of society. People in society commit crimes - many of which have prison and/or the death penalty as punishment. Looking at things solely through a monetary prism (and nothing else) is absolutely foolish and which I have not done esp. with regards to the issue being talked about which is needle exchange.

Healthcare is a societal issue as well, so by your logic, your argument is invalid.

 

[DermViser]

Healthcare is a societal issue as well, so by your logic, your argument is invalid.

Going to prison is not an aspect of everyone's life. Just bc you have different pots that contribute to one budget, doesn't mean you can conflate all issues together. We can deal with each issue based on merit. Why not do the same for housing? Everyone is guaranteed a house. What about transportation? Everyone needs that too. Eventually you get to a point that not everyone can get what they want.

 

[NontradCA]

Going to prison is not an aspect of everyone's life. Just bc you have different pots that contribute to one budget, doesn't mean you can conflate all issues together. We can deal with each issue based on merit. Why not do the same for housing? Everyone is guaranteed a house. What about transportation? Everyone needs that too. Eventually you get to a point that not everyone can get what they want.

I don't know what your point is, but going to prison certainly is an aspect of everyone's life. Those laws you talk about apply to everyone. Or should, at least.

To your second part, we can deal with issues based on merit. Health of children v. putting away junkies. Go.

 

[DermViser]

I don't know what your point is, but going to prison certainly is an aspect of everyone's life. Those laws you talk about apply to everyone. Or should, at least.

To your second part, we can deal with issues based on merit. Health of children v. putting away junkies. Go.

No it isn't. Not everyone goes to prison. So it isn't an aspect of everyone's life. Laws apply to everyone. Not everyone is a law breaker.

Except you haven't dealt with them based on merit. Your excuse was monetary, which is fine, but is not a debate on which I wish to partake bc I don't think saying - oh it's cheap, no biggie! is a valid reason.

 

[NontradCA]

No it isn't. Not everyone goes to prison. So it isn't an aspect of everyone's life. Laws apply to everyone. Not everyone is a law breaker.

Except you haven't dealt with them based on merit. Your excuse was monetary, which is fine, but is not a debate on which I wish to partake bc I don't think saying - oh it's cheap, no biggie! is a valid reason.

This isn't cutting it for me. Gnight boo.

 

[DermViser]

This isn't cutting it for me. Gnight boo.

I'm not your puppet. I don't debate you when you want to. Goodnight, boo.

 

[fancymylotus]

Damn I missed EMDO playing the race card? hrmph

 

[fancymylotus]

I'm also a bit racist, I've had a really hard life there's no way people who have grown up atop mt. privilege could ever understand.

Mount Privilege. Lmao. The view IS pretty sweet from up here though...

where's the eye roll emoticon?!

 

[PL198]

mt privledge. hm that's a new one. must be where I forged my one ring so that I can rule over all the unprivledged peons and have all doors open for me on my way towards world domination. Real question is, where's frodo?

 

[DermViser]

Damn I missed EMDO playing the race card? hrmph

Don't worry. It's his most overplayed card. His chip on his shoulder is now a boulder. Him and circulus vitios should have a party. But just the two of them bc they hate people.

 

[DermViser]

Mount Privilege. Lmao. The view IS pretty sweet from up here though...

where's the eye roll emoticon?!

It's now the condescension emoticon apparently. That's what we've gotten to on SDN.

 

[RJGOP]

Don't worry. It's his most overplayed card. His chip on his shoulder is now a boulder. Him and circulus vitios should have a party. But just the two of them bc they hate people.

They would just sit in opposite corners of a room, hence their distatste towards others.

 

[fancymylotus]

mt privledge. hm that's a new one. must be where I forged my one ring so that I can rule over all the unprivledged peons and have all doors open for me on my way towards world domination. Real question is, where's frodo?

Dunno about frodo but I am the princess of that ****ing mountain

 

[Mad Jack]

That quote was not referring AT ALL to drug abuse. It was OldBearProfessor's opinion. He believes all costs for everyone should be paid for even if they all claim that they can't afford it. He doesn't care who ends up paying for it, but does believe it should be paid for.

You realize he said all children, not all people, right? Health care for children is a much different thing than health care for everyone, for both financial and moral reasons.

 

[DermViser]

You realize he said all children, not all people, right? Health care for children is a much different thing than health care for everyone, for both financial and moral reasons.

If you know him well enough, I doubt he would limit it solely to children only. I know only children are is in his purview, so he feels all patients he sees should have their medical bills paid for. Who pays for it is absolutely immaterial to him (not shocked).

 

[Mad Jack]

Illegal immigrants who don't have health insurance (one of many issues with respect to illegal immigration) is one issue. Going to prison is a fact of life of society. People in society commit crimes - many of which have prison and/or the death penalty as punishment. Looking at things solely through a monetary prism (and nothing else) is absolutely foolish and which I have not done esp. with regards to the issue being talked about which is needle exchange.

You brought up taxpayer money again and again in regard to needle exchange. Most of the people in prison for drug crimes are nonviolent first time offenders that were hurting a grand total of no one. Who says that locking up harmless people for no good reason at the cost of billions per year is just? Why is it right, and how does it help society? What are we gaining from it?

 

[DermViser]

You brought up taxpayer money again and again in regard to needle exchange. Most of the people in prison for drug crimes are nonviolent first time offenders that were hurting a grand total of no one. Who says that locking up harmless people for no good reason at the cost of billions per year is just? Why is it right, and how does it help society? What are we gaining from it?

I brought it up as being a waste to taxpayers regardless of cost. I would much rather have that money allocated to drug addicts instead go to public schools. I am perfectly fine with drug addicts going to prison. They are not "harmless". They are harmful to themselves as well as possibly harming others. All of a sudden liberals care about costs? That's a first.

 

[SouthSideSteve]

You can graduate at the top of your class as a black med student and still have patients question your competence,

Nobody is questioning your competence because you're black. They question your competence because you're a DO.

 

[EMDO2018]

Why so much talking about me behind my back? There are very few decent human beings, that belief is confirmed regularly. Very few people I respect. America is a Fed up Country, and the vast majority of its inhabitants are disgraceful and dishonorable.

 

[PL198]

You brought up taxpayer money again and again in regard to needle exchange. Most of the people in prison for drug crimes are nonviolent first time offenders that were hurting a grand total of no one. Who says that locking up harmless people for no good reason at the cost of billions per year is just? Why is it right, and how does it help society? What are we gaining from it?

woah woah. you're trying to talk about first time offenders for drug crimes and then talking about needles. the average person that gets popped from drug crimes is MUCH different than the average person who gets popped for a drug crime that uses needles. please don't try to use your harmless potheads(I agree a lot of them are) and then somehow talk about the people shooting up heroine or coke. those are two completely different types of people.

 

[PL198]

by the time someone progresses to drugs that use needles as the primary means of utilization, they are absolutely past the harmless stage. someone shooting up heroine is not harmless. a 22 yr old kid getting high on marijuana and playing xbox all day? yeah probably pretty harmless.

 

[Mad Jack]

by the time someone progresses to drugs that use needles as the primary means of utilization, they are absolutely past the harmless stage. someone shooting up heroine is not harmless. a 22 yr old kid getting high on marijuana and playing xbox all day? yeah probably pretty harmless.

Every person I've ever known who used heroin was a pretty normal person that got hooked after taking narcs for pain. The thing is, oxy is hard to get and once you're hooked, you're hooked. I dated a nurse that turned out to be an occasional user of heroin, along with about 6 of her friends that she met (shockingly) in nursing school. After we split ways, my ex wife got remarried, after her 3rd kid ended up in chronic pain and on oxy, but had to switch to heroin because she had no insurance and it was cheaper to just shoot up. A good friend of mine had a husband who hid his heroin problem and straight up died of an OD because he couldn't be open about it and get help. Heroin users aren't at all what many people with zero expedience with drugs and drug users generally expect. None of the ones I knew had a conviction for anything ever. Hell, you'd literally never know they were users unless they told you.

I don't think heroin or narcotics should be legal, but prison for users certainly isn't the answer. You're throwing them in prison to what, teach them a lesson? The prose of which being? "Drugs are bad and they'll mess up your life, so we're going to teach you not to do them by throwing you in prison and messing up your life. Which, we know, ironically gives you more incentive to do drugs, but fight that urge while you're trying to get a job with that fresh drug conviction!"

 

[Bearded_Monkey]

I brought it up as being a waste to taxpayers regardless of cost. I would much rather have that money allocated to drug addicts instead go to public schools. I am perfectly fine with drug addicts going to prison. They are not "harmless". They are harmful to themselves as well as possibly harming others. All of a sudden liberals care about costs? That's a first.

You realize it costs money to send them to prison right? You are going to pay for them either way. You have no choice about that. Why not pay for them before sending them to jail, further ruining their life?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/11/prison-spending-education-spending_n_5484787.html

 

[PL198]

nah might as well just rehabilitate them. killed a kid drunk driving? eh just go to some classes, that'll set you straight.

at some point, you make people own up for their actions. I don't care what incentive it gives them. they break the law, they pay a penalty. that's what you need to understand. rules and punishments aren't meant to be in the person's best interest. it's punishment for doing something wrong.

 

[PL198]

You realize it costs money to send them to prison right? You are going to pay for them either way. You have no choice about that. Why not pay for them before sending them to jail, further ruining their life?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/11/prison-spending-education-spending_n_5484787.html

huffingtonpost article = liberal cesspool and not admissible for discussion. if I brought up fox news(which isn't nearly as biased), you'd have an aneurysm, so don't do it for your ****.

 

[Bearded_Monkey]

Every person I've ever known who used heroin was a pretty normal person that got hooked after taking narcs for pain...

I don't think heroin or narcotics should be legal, but prison for users certainly isn't the answer. You're throwing them in prison to what, teach them a lesson? The prose of which being? "Drugs are bad and they'll mess up your life, so we're going to teach you not to do them by throwing you in prison and messing up your life. Which, we know, ironically gives you more incentive to do drugs, but fight that urge while you're trying to get a job with that fresh drug conviction!"

This has been my experience as well, seemingly normal people. White people. Fancy white college people. They do not rob or steal for their drug money and do not harm strangers while doing their drugs.

 

[Bearded_Monkey]

huffingtonpost article = liberal cesspool and not admissible for discussion. if I brought up fox news(which isn't nearly as biased), you'd have an aneurysm, so don't do it for your ****.

Thats funny. They quote a fox news news article in their 4th link. You can't argue the data.

 

[Mad Jack]

nah might as well just rehabilitate them. killed a kid drunk driving? eh just go to some classes, that'll set you straight.

at some point, you make people own up for their actions. I don't care what incentive it gives them. they break the law, they pay a penalty. that's what you need to understand. rules and punishments aren't meant to be in the person's best interest. it's punishment for doing something wrong.

If you commit a crime while high, you're obviously going to prison because you committed a crime. Just like if you were drunk, same deal. I believe the purpose of the prison system should be to rehabilitate people and make them functional members of society, and to separate them from society if they are incapable of rehabilitation. If someone has harmed no one else and is a functional member of society, whether they use drugs or not is inconsequential- they have done society no harm, they have done other individuals no harm, and thus putting them behind bars would serve neither them nor society in any positive way.

 

[Southplains]

Nobody is questioning your competence because you're black. They question your competence because you're a DO.

Nope not at all, actually.

 

[PL198]

If you commit a crime while high, you're obviously going to prison because you committed a crime. Just like if you were drunk, same deal. I believe the purpose of the prison system should be to rehabilitate people and make them functional members of society, and to separate them from society if they are incapable of rehabilitation. If someone has harmed no one else and is a functional member of society, whether they use drugs or not is inconsequential- they have done society no harm, they have done other individuals no harm, and thus putting them behind bars would serve neither them nor society in any positive way.

Why is that the prison's purpose? It should be the individuals. It's not my job to pay for some idiot who broke a law to get training so they can contribute again. If they want to do so, they can put their butt on the line and pay for it themselves, just like I would. Why in the world would someone who broke a law get free education when people that don't break laws have to pay for it? Just because they didn't harm anyone yet, doesn't mean they won't ever. People that are career druggies always start off as potheads.

 

[Mad Jack]

Why is that the prison's purpose? It should be the individuals. It's not my job to pay for some idiot who broke a law to get training so they can contribute again. If they want to do so, they can put their butt on the line and pay for it themselves, just like I would. Why in the world would someone who broke a law get free education when people that don't break laws have to pay for it? Just because they didn't harm anyone yet, doesn't mean they won't ever. People that are career druggies always start off as potheads.

Because it's a net negative for society if you take a bunch of dysfunctional people and **** them up more. It does literally no one any good. Prison should be functional, rather than a drain on resources. People don't commit crimes because they just wake up one day and say, "ah hell, I'm going to smoke a bowl, do a line of coke, and shank a guy!" There's generally something wrong with them, and if we fix that, we won't just be locking away a criminal that we'll just turn out later to re-offend, we'll be turning out a useful, tax-paying member of society that can contribute and pull their own weight. More prison costs way, WAY more than providing some skills, coping mechanisms, and an education while they're on the inside. We spend more on a prisoner in a year than we do on a year of med school. Anything we can do to reduce the future need to spend that money is a damn good thing, especially if it boosts the economy by providing skilled labor and taxpayers.

We've got 5% of the world's population and 50% of its prisoners. There is something very very wrong with the way we approach prison policy.

And you pretty much have zero knowledge in regard to drugs, the people who use them, and the laws concerning them, so let's just say your opinion is misinformed and invalid at the least and intentionally ignorant and completely biased toward your preexisting beliefs at worst.

 

[Mad Jack]

People that are career druggies always start off as potheads.

Please, tell me about all the druggies you know. It's actually been shown that alcohol, not pot, is the major gateway drug for most hard users, in study after study. The gateway drug theory has far fewer (only one that I know of, a recent Yale study) well-done studies that show a correlation between marijuana and harder drug use.

http://www.collective-evolution.com/2014/04/12/study-the-gateway-drug-is-alcohol-not-marijuana/

 

[PL198]

Because it's a net negative for society if you take a bunch of dysfunctional people and **** them up more. It does literally no one any good. Prison should be functional, rather than a drain on resources. People don't commit crimes because they just wake up one day and say, "ah hell, I'm going to smoke a bowl, do a line of coke, and shank a guy!" There's generally something wrong with them, and if we fix that, we won't just be locking away a criminal that we'll just turn out later to re-offend, we'll be turning out a useful, tax-paying member of society that can contribute and pull their own weight. More prison costs way, WAY more than providing some skills, coping mechanisms, and an education while they're on the inside. We spend more on a prisoner in a year than we do on a year of med school. Anything we can do to reduce the future need to spend that money is a damn good thing, especially if it boosts the economy by providing skilled labor and taxpayers.

We've got 5% of the world's population and 50% of its prisoners. There is something very very wrong with the way we approach prison policy.

And you pretty much have zero knowledge in regard to drugs, the people who use them, and the laws concerning them, so let's just say your opinion is misinformed and invalid at the least and intentionally ignorant and completely biased toward your preexisting beliefs at worst.

lol ok sparky. well you keep advocating rehabbing and I'll actually make people pay for their crimes. we should just make prison into a vacation. honestly I mean why not just give them a free vacation somewhere super nice? They'll be so happy and they'll never commit crime again. maybe give them some money too, because we know that is another reason. hell honorary PhDs for all as well, because education is clearly a factor!

 

[Southplains]

by the time someone progresses to drugs that use needles as the primary means of utilization, they are absolutely past the harmless stage. someone shooting up heroine is not harmless. a 22 yr old kid getting high on marijuana and playing xbox all day? yeah probably pretty harmless.

You'd be surprised then who are drug abusers. It's really not something to demonize and just say we shouldn't have to address this, therefore we won't.

 

[PL198]

You'd be surprised then who are drug abusers. It's really not something to demonize and just say we shouldn't have to address this, therefore we won't.

when we're talking about heroine and coke, no, that's not really something you can hide very well. so far I'm 2/2 on that front for identifying. pain killers or marijuana? sure. probably going to be wrong more than half the time.