What personality should a female surgeon possess?

[HoboCommander]

Are female surgeons easy to get along with? Do they need to have calm personalities in order to be respected by the male surgeons? Is it OK to be commanding to the nurses?

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[DermViser]

No, No, No.

 

[mckinsey]

Like most things, the answer would be: it depends.

 

[HoboCommander]

Do most female surgeons fit into a certain personality type?

 

[PL198]

she should have big balls

 

[Silent Cool]

Are female surgeons easy to get along with? Do they need to have calm personalities in order to be respected by the male surgeons? Is it OK to be commanding to the nurses?

You're either a troll, asking for it, or are totally clueless.

In other words:

 

[jakeislove]

Same as anyone else who excels at surgery: Thick skin and a short memory.

It also helps to be in good shape. The job is very physical.

 

[Brain Bucket]

,

 

[Robotman]

in b4: "I've had a ruff day"

 

[ACSurgeon]

Are female surgeons easy to get along with? Do they need to have calm personalities in order to be respected by the male surgeons? Is it OK to be commanding to the nurses?

Just keep your pre-surgery personality. Those who are miserable and hated by others are those who think they have to adapt a mean/rude/whatever personality to 'command respect' because they are women. Half of our residents are women, so there is not much special about being a female surgical resident in 2014 (at least not at our program). As you become more senior, you get more respect.

The only thing I'll agree with is you have to have thick skin and not be outwardly too sensitive to feedback (this applies to both genders).

 

[Silent Cool]

Are female surgeons easy to get along with? Do they need to have calm personalities in order to be respected by the male surgeons? Is it OK to be commanding to the nurses?

OP,

You might want to read this book:

 

[Winged Scapula]

Are female surgeons easy to get along with?

Some are, some aren't; there is no gender differential in personalities. The biggest dinguses in my community are the male neurospine surgeons and the cardiologists (although I get along with pretty much everyone).

Do they need to have calm personalities in order to be respected by the male surgeons?

I've never had a problem (AFAIK) being respected by anyone, including my male colleagues. I suspect it is being good at what you do that is the deciding factor in garnering respect, not personality.

Is it OK to be commanding to the nurses?

I'm not sure what "commanding" means. Do you mean dealing with them from a position of authority? If so, of course its ok. The surgeon, male or female, is the authority on the care of their patient and is the one with the medical and legal responsibility. I do find that nurses tend to treat female physicians with less deference than they do the male physicians but I have no problem telling nurses what I need and getting it done. Unlike some of my female colleagues in residency, I did not and do not go out of my way to "befriend" the nurses and socialize with them unless I meet someone I really like as a person.

 

[HoboCommander]

Can you pick the good nurses to assign to your patients?

 

[DermViser]

Some are, some aren't; there is no gender differential in personalities. The biggest dinguses in my community are the male neurospine surgeons and the cardiologists (although I get along with pretty much everyone).

Not to misattribute motivations to OP, but I think when female surgeons are "meaner", they're evaluated much more harshly by others than male surgeons.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Not to misattribute motivations to OP, but I think when female surgeons are "meaner", they're evaluated much more harshly by others than male surgeons.

Absolutely. I think there's plenty of experience to show that assertive females are judged more harshly than males exhibiting the same.

 

[Silent Cool]

OP,

Just go into derm and be done with it.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Can you pick the good nurses to assign to your patients?

As @southernIM notes, it is possible.

I usually have the same team in the OR, although there are occasional variations due to vacations, lunches, breaks etc. The OR control desk knows whom I prefer and if they send in someone that I find difficult to work with, I make my displeasure known and it doesn't happen again. Lately I've had some variety because my scrub nurse has a student with her this month and the student needs to see a variety of cases, so they've been rotated to other rooms. So I've been getting the "boys" which is fun, because my regular scrub hates the show tunes on my iPod, but the "boys" are good with it.

The floors/ICUs are more difficult to specify a certain nurse but again, if there is someone whom I feel is a danger to my patients, I would certainly talk to the supervisor to make sure he/she is not assigned to my patients again.

Bed control knows to call me on the rare occasion they cannot accommodate my patients on the Oncology Unit because I do not care for the nursing care on other units (only because they don't know how we like to do things, not because of anything dangerous).

 

[DermViser]

Absolutely. I think there's plenty of experience to show that assertive females are judged more harshly than males exhibiting the same.

I don't think it's on purpose. I just think stereotypically we tend to see women as nice, kind, feminine, nice words, etc. blah blah, so then when they deviate from that greatly, we judge them much greater and harshly. A man not being nice, is not as a big of a shock, bc men, in general, are not really expected to be "nice".

Reverse it: "Are male surgeons easy to get along with? Do they need to have calm personalities in order to be respected by the female surgeons?"

I think the default is always Surgeon = Male, so people figure that if a female goes into Surgery she has some man-like characteristics (which is usually a bad thing).

 

[Winged Scapula]

I don't think it's on purpose. I just think stereotypically we tend to see women as nice, kind, feminine, nice words, etc. blah blah, so then when they deviate from that greatly, we judge them much greater and harshly. A man not being nice, is not as a big of a shock, bc men, in general, are not really expected to be "nice".

Reverse it: "Are male surgeons easy to get along with? Do they need to have calm personalities in order to be respected by the female surgeons?"

I think the default is always Surgeon = Male, so people figure that if a female goes into Surgery she has some man-like characteristics (which is usually a bad thing).

Absolutely.

The surgical "temperament" is not one usually assigned to or preferred in women.

 

[MrChance2]

I've always respected the folks that could be aggressive and assertive when necessary and easy to get along with when not. I would aim for that regardless of gender.

 

[jakeislove]

Absolutely. I think there's plenty of experience to show that assertive females are judged more harshly than males exhibiting the same.

True.

 

[DermViser]

Absolutely.

The surgical "temperament" is not one usually assigned to or preferred in women.

Or not unless their temperament is like this:

 

[jakeislove]

^ She's got nice temperments!

That's important!

 

[Megalomis]

Are female surgeons easy to get along with? Do they need to have calm personalities in order to be respected by the male surgeons? Is it OK to be commanding to the nurses?

In my opinion and from what I've noticed, there is no blanket personality type. I would say yes they are typically calm (although I have worked with a few who weren't when things didn't go as planned in a case) but their calm nature has nothing to do with being respected by the males lol. That's just how their personalities were. Plenty are feminine and sweet too. And I would say from what I've seen, it was the sweet, more passive/assertive female surgeons that seemed to be more well liked by their teams, and the other docs too.

 

[jakeislove]

There was one female resident one of my surgery rotation, she was like 5'2 and the biggest bitch I've met. She made one of the other students cry lmao. I was like damn, this chick is a female surgeon and has a napoleon complex. Not fun to be around. She liked me for some reason though.

A friend is applying for general surgery.... out of love, I'll say she can be extremely difficult, LOL!

FWIW, she's able to accept feedback and understands there are times she's difficult.

 

[PL198]

There was one female resident one of my surgery rotation, she was like 5'2 and the biggest bitch I've met. She made one of the other students cry lmao. I was like damn, this chick is a female surgeon and has a napoleon complex. Not fun to be around. She liked me for some reason though.

I feel like surgery has 2 types of people:
a) People that are extremely low-strung, in that they know they're a stud and you could walk in and say " hey screw you, you suck," and they'd be able to laugh because they clearly know it's not the case. These people are a lot of fun to be around.
b) People that are EXTREMELY high-strung, in that they will always feel inadequate and will attempt to tear down others as much as they can.

I'm still convinced there are way more of a in surgery than b, because of it's innate properties, however I think that like anything, since b is so extreme, they're the ones that get the press and thus perceptions of surgeons.

 

[totu22]

I don't think category A is necessarily "low strung". I think almost all surgeons work very hard, are type A people (not your category A), and are very ambitious. I think the difference between your two categories is not high vs low strung, it's the self-esteem of the person and their reasons for pursuing surgery. A person with low self esteem that becomes a surgeon to feel important will be like your category B. A person with higher self esteem that does surgery for the right reason will be your category A. From my experience, not too many super chill, laid back, "don't care" people do surgery. This does not mean they cannot laugh at themselves, though.

 

[DH410]

Are female surgeons easy to get along with? Do they need to have calm personalities in order to be respected by the male surgeons? Is it OK to be commanding to the nurses?

Hopefully just one, and preferably her own. If they must adopt though, Wallace Shawn's personality is acceptable as well.

 

[DarknightX]

I feel like surgery has 2 types of people:
a) People that are extremely low-strung, in that they know they're a stud and you could walk in and say " hey screw you, you suck," and they'd be able to laugh because they clearly know it's not the case. These people are a lot of fun to be around.
b) People that are EXTREMELY high-strung, in that they will always feel inadequate and will attempt to tear down others as much as they can.

I'm still convinced there are way more of a in surgery than b, because of it's innate properties, however I think that like anything, since b is so extreme, they're the ones that get the press and thus perceptions of surgeons.

This is extremely accurate. Low strung doesn't mean you can't be type A. A lot of good surgeons that I know are meticulous and pay attention to detail, but they aren't stomping their feet and going nuts over every little thing.

The B category people are just painful to be around, and they get the most attention because of the scenes that they cause and the fear that they inspire.

In regards to male or female surgeons; it doesn't make a difference. Some people are difficult and some people are not. It's like anything else, there's no generalization you can really make.

 

[PL198]

This is extremely accurate. Low strung doesn't mean you can't be type A. A lot of good surgeons that I know are meticulous and pay attention to detail, but they aren't stomping their feet and going nuts over every little thing.

The B category people are just painful to be around, and they get the most attention because of the scenes that they cause and the fear that they inspire.

In regards to male or female surgeons; it doesn't make a difference. Some people are difficult and some people are not. It's like anything else, there's no generalization you can really make.

I'd say that being type A is being low strung. The people that are high strung and ready to cry whenever something happens they don't like, those aren't really my images of leaders. Not to mention how in any clinical class we're always told to not freak out about something a patient tells us, or a situation that would make us freak out. However for some reason, I find more and more of my classmates actually look for opportunities to freak out.

 

[DermViser]

I'd say that being type A is being low strung. The people that are high strung and ready to cry whenever something happens they don't like, those aren't really my images of leaders. Not to mention how in any clinical class we're always told to not freak out about something a patient tells us, or a situation that would make us freak out. However for some reason, I find more and more of my classmates actually look for opportunities to freak out.

Type A is more associated with perfectionist, anal retentive type of personalities. Hardly "low-strung". I would say the environment in different specialties can affect this but not always. I was always amazed by the surgery resident who could stay calm, cool, and collected no matter what incompetence was going around him.

 

[PL198]

Type A is more associated with perfectionist, anal retentive type of personalities. Hardly "low-strung". I would say the environment in different specialties can affect this but not always. I was always amazed by the surgery resident who could stay calm, cool, and collected no matter what incompetence was going around him.

Right but you're assuming that someone that wants everything perfect and is obsessed with detail is going to be basically a PITA to deal with. It seems to me like the people that complain about a problem are rarely the ones that solve it.

 

[DermViser]

Right but you're assuming that someone that wants everything perfect and is obsessed with detail is going to be basically a PITA to deal with. It seems to me like the people that complain about a problem are rarely the ones that solve it.

Not everything can be solved by that person alone. Sometimes it's not always in that person's control to be able solve it. You'll see this soon enough, when you're rotating in clerkships.

 

[RJGOP]

Absolutely. I think there's plenty of experience to show that assertive females are judged more harshly than males exhibiting the same.

From what I've seen, I'd have to agree. It may sound weird, but even for me, when I see a female doctor administering orders in a deliberate (not aggressive) manner, it seems a little awkward. It's just not what you'd typically expect from a woman. There's nothing wrong with it, in fact I think its good for women to assert themselves, especially if it's something important. But yeah, assertive women are judged more harshly than assertive men.

 

[EMDO2018]

"What personality should a female surgeon have?"

Like a little bulldog.

 

[HoboCommander]

I ask the question because I'm intrigued by the personalities that enter surgery.

It's not like anyone can be a surgeon. It takes 4 years medical school and 5 years residency, and often there are gap years or additional fellowships. That means that the female surgeon would be how old when she's done, like 37? Everyone knows that it would be difficult to have children then.

I'm curious if females set aside their nurturing aspect to become a hardcore professional, what kind of personality would they have now, and how is it best to interact with them if they were your senior? Would you work with senior females the same way as a senior male?

 

[RJGOP]

I ask the question because I'm intrigued by the personalities that enter surgery.

It's not like anyone can be a surgeon. It takes 4 years medical school and 5 years residency, and often there are gap years or additional fellowships. That means that the female surgeon would be how old when she's done, like 37? Everyone knows that it would be difficult to have children then.

I'm curious if females set aside their nurturing aspect to become a hardcore professional, what kind of personality would they have now, and how is it best to interact with them if they were your senior? Would you work with senior females the same way as a senior male?

Average age to start med school- roughly 23
23+5+4= 32

32 does not equal 37. Say you add 1-2 for fellowships and gap years, maybe research, still not 37. On a more serious note, depending on the person, many women can pull off having children during training. It's certainly not easy, but they can pull it off.

 

[HoboCommander]

many women can pull off having children during training. It's certainly not easy, but they can pull it off.

that would mean that their husband would have to take care of the baby. it would be a reversal of the domestic roles. the female surgeon's husband would be the submissive one in the relationship and the female surgeon would be the breadwinner. if such a female surgeon is your attending, no one can question that you are dealing with a high-strung type A personality here. you would have to know what kind of things to watch out for in order to not get into trouble.

 

[RJGOP]

that would mean that their husband would have to take care of the baby. it would be a reversal of the domestic roles. the female surgeon's husband would be the submissive one in the relationship and the female surgeon would be the breadwinner. if such a female surgeon is your attending, no one can question that you are dealing with a high-strung type A personality here. you would have to know what kind of things to watch out for in order to not get into trouble.

Like it has been previously stated, almost all surgeons, female or male, are type A. And so what if the man is the submissive one, he still has a crucial role in the family. He may not be the breadwinner, but who cares?

 

[Megalomis]

I ask the question because I'm intrigued by the personalities that enter surgery.

It's not like anyone can be a surgeon. It takes 4 years medical school and 5 years residency, and often there are gap years or additional fellowships. That means that the female surgeon would be how old when she's done, like 37? Everyone knows that it would be difficult to have children then.

I'm curious if females set aside their nurturing aspect to become a hardcore professional, what kind of personality would they have now, and how is it best to interact with them if they were your senior? Would you work with senior females the same way as a senior male?

I can't speak for all women, but I know that for myself, I can still be extremely nurturing while not having my own children. It's not like I put the "nurturing" trait aside when I decided to put more of an emphasis on a career instead of reproduction. We each have our own reasons..but as for me all I can say is from the time I was a child it was never a driver of mine to be married with the white picket fence, 2.5 kids, etc. I'm not sure what went wrong exactly, but I guess I was just driven by other things and felt like I could make a bigger difference in the world if I chose NOT to have children lol. Weird, I know.

As for female surgeons, I'm not one of them, but I would say that it's best not to generalize as far as their personalities are concerned. I would say treat them just as you would any other professional.

 

[touchpause13]

Dude last time I checked it's not 1952. Women can be breadwinners. Men can take care of children. Both parents can work, and the everyday childcare can happen at a day care or with other family members. There's more to life than strict gender roles.

 

[Sportsdude89]

Not a med student but today a female resident described it perfect" I didnt go into surgery because all the female surgeons are either divorced or have been cheated on by their ex/husbands. Good luck!!

 

[altitudinarian]

Not a med student but today a female resident described it perfect" I didnt go into surgery because all the female surgeons are either divorced or have been cheated on by their ex/husbands. Good luck!!

That's sad...

 

[Megalomis]

Not a med student but today a female resident described it perfect" I didnt go into surgery because all the female surgeons are either divorced or have been cheated on by their ex/husbands. Good luck!!

And how about the male surgeons? I would assume it's really not all that different for them. I guess I'm not understanding why there would be a gap between the two sexes in terms of propensity for divorce. I think it's smart for a busy surgeon (whether male or female) to select a mate who is just as busy..otherwise it's probably going to be difficult for the relationship to survive. I think this gives credence to the fact that doctors marry doctors more often than not.

 

[Winged Scapula]

Not a med student but today a female resident described it perfect" I didnt go into surgery because all the female surgeons are either divorced or have been cheated on by their ex/husbands. Good luck!!

Hmmm... so a resident in a completely different specialty somehow thinks that as a medical student she has that sort of insight into the specialty or that the practitioners in her chosen specialty don't get divorced or cheated on? LOL

It also sounds as if she was implying that the reason these women were divorced or that their husbands cheat on them was because they were female surgeons rather than a myriad of other reasons which may be completely unrelated to her choice of profession (or the even more curious argument that when someone cheats it's their partners fault).

I'd venture that the divorce rate amongst male surgeons is higher than that of females.

 

[operaman]

I'm thinking about the female surgeons I know and the biggest trend I see is one that also applies to male surgeons:

The more brilliant and accomplished they are, the kinder and humbler they are apt to be.

*NB: this excludes what I called the "130 club." These are people with IQs of 130 who are smarter than most (medicine avg IQ 115) but still have some sort of inferiority complex from all their colleagues who are much smarter. I find this is where the stereotypical surgeon attitudes are found, though some people with similar IQs are great.

There is definitely a double standard with regards to attitude that will hopefully change as our society continues to evolve. The unintended byproduct of this underlying bias is that successful female surgeons, especially the ones I've met in academia, are accomplished masters of diplomacy and demeanor and have a leadership style that can be very effective in bringing together the disparate personalities in the field. We're seeing more women take chairmanships at major centers and rise to leadership positions of national and international organizations, though this is happening more slowly than I think it should. The departments I've rotated through with prominent female leaders were some of the most collegial and welcoming I've seen.

 

[Megalomis]

I'm thinking about the female surgeons I know and the biggest trend I see is one that also applies to male surgeons:

The more brilliant and accomplished they are, the kinder and humbler they are apt to be.

*NB: this excludes what I called the "130 club." These are people with IQs of 130 who are smarter than most (medicine avg IQ 115) but still have some sort of inferiority complex from all their colleagues who are much smarter. I find this is where the stereotypical surgeon attitudes are found, though some people with similar IQs are great.

There is definitely a double standard with regards to attitude that will hopefully change as our society continues to evolve. The unintended byproduct of this underlying bias is that successful female surgeons, especially the ones I've met in academia, are accomplished masters of diplomacy and demeanor and have a leadership style that can be very effective in bringing together the disparate personalities in the field. We're seeing more women take chairmanships at major centers and rise to leadership positions of national and international organizations, though this is happening more slowly than I think it should. The departments I've rotated through with prominent female leaders were some of the most collegial and welcoming I've seen.

I've never noticed such a trend lol

 

[Nasrudin]

What tends to happen to people who work hard and dedicate a the majority of their time to work is a different question than what are the inherent qualities necessary to do well at something like surgery.

I don't think being cheated on or divorced is an inherent quality unless it is by subconscious design, and a pattern.

Aside from that I would imagine humility probably fails as a word to describe what it must be like to both have the guts to cut people open and rearrange their anatomy and to realize the complications lurking from experience of having had things go badly for patients.

Humility can be a vanity. And I wonder if intelligence beyond a certain point really changes the quality of a physician's work that much.

 

[HoboCommander]

I see some female surgeons who are married to male surgeons. Do such marriages typically work out? Both people would have very limited time and both would want to be the alpha male in the relationship.

 

[Meh.meh]

I see some female surgeons who are married to male surgeons. Do such marriages typically work out? Both people would have very limited time and both would want to be the alpha male in the relationship.

Well, things typically go well until they mate. Then the female rips off the male surgeons head, and devours it in order to store energy for the brood.