University of Iowa (Carver) VS. University of Arizona

[BaronVonZ]

Sorry to start one of these threads but I'm completely torn.

I have been accepted to UofA and Carver. Arizona has several pluses - its close to my family, its warm weathered, and its approximately $11k a year cheaper than Carver. So far, so good.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure that these two programs are academically equivalent in terms of the long term opportunities they'll offer me. Whats concerning to me is the MSAR indicates only 700 in state candidates applied last year to UofA and over 200 were accepted to fill the class - this cut from applicant to accepted student is far less than what happens at many schools (IE. BU: 10,000 applicants, ~300 acceptances) and may limit the selectivity of the admissions office. There are other factors: the match list at Carver reflects many more candidates going into ROADs residencies, the entering average MCAT is a 33 (Carver) vs a 29 (UofA) and the difference in rank is 26 (Carver) vs 71 (UofA). I know each of these factors independently isn't a very good indicator of anything, but as a group they may show some importance.

Long story short, extracurricular factors might be better at UofA, but my worry is that I may stand better odds of academic success at Carver. Anyone care to provide me with a bit of guidance?

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[BaronVonZ]

No one?

 

[KinasePro]

There's no doubt that Carver is a powerhouse in the midwest and will technically give you more opportunities, but the extraneous factors are very important as well. I'd argue that happiness and finances will trump the perceived advantages you'd be forgoing to attend UofA. Also, Iowa is A LOT different than AZ...

Keep in mind that if your peers are less competitive academically, you'll be able to shine more readily. Just a thought.

 

[anonymous777]

Sorry to start one of these threads but I'm completely torn.

I have been accepted to UofA and Carver. Arizona has several pluses - its close to my family, its warm weathered, and its approximately $11k a year cheaper than Carver. So far, so good.

Unfortunately, I'm not sure that these two programs are academically equivalent in terms of the long term opportunities they'll offer me. Whats concerning to me is the MSAR indicates only 700 in state candidates applied last year to UofA and over 200 were accepted to fill the class - this cut from applicant to accepted student is far less than what happens at many schools (IE. BU: 10,000 applicants, ~300 acceptances) and may limit the selectivity of the admissions office. There are other factors: the match list at Carver reflects many more candidates going into ROADs residencies, the entering average MCAT is a 33 (Carver) vs a 29 (UofA) and the difference in rank is 26 (Carver) vs 71 (UofA). I know each of these factors independently isn't a very good indicator of anything, but as a group they may show some importance.

Long story short, extracurricular factors might be better at UofA, but my worry is that I may stand better odds of academic success at Carver. Anyone care to provide me with a bit of guidance?

Money is an important factor, but keep in mind 11k a year amounts to a total of 44k for four years, which is still less than half of the lowest paid physician I've heard of. In other words, I don't think that money should a top priority here, personally, id be more concerned if the difference were like 20k-30k per year. Family is nice to have around, but the medical students I know, who live in the same city as their families, don't see them all that often anyway, med students are quite busy. The biggest factor for me would be the weather particularly since I hate driving in snow. I'd probably go to Carver, just my $.02...

 

[Brrooother]

When I had to make a similar decision, I decided happiness was the most important factor, followed by money (of course, this may be different for each individual). Med school is stressful, but you will have time for a social life that you'll want and need to relieve some of that stress. Part of this is also the "fit" with the school, and for me was also being closer to family. While I wanted to have the adventure of going somewhere new, I figured med school may actually be the time to be somewhere a little more familiar so that I'd have the support of my family when times got rough. Bottom line: you need to go where you'll be happier. You can find your own opportunities to shine no matter where you go, and doing well on Step 1 and 2 and clinical grades will still make you competitive for residency whether you're at UofA or Iowa. If you absolutely loved Iowa and felt you fit in there better than UofA, I'd say go there, or vice-versa.

And the finances thing: for me the difference would have been over $100,000 for four years, so I agree that $44,000 shouldn't make your mind up for you. Go where you'll be happier - you'll be so thankful you did this.

 

[Barcu]

I don't think the money is a big factor in this case. Prestige may be. But you need to answer some questions first.

With your family there, I'm assuming you are from AZ or close by. Is that right? Are you more interested in residency out west or settling out west in the long run? In that case, the difference in prestige shouldn't matter too much because regional ties matter too (I've even seen a number of AZ docs here in Colorado). If you want to live in AZ, going to U of A would be perfectly fine.

And where would you rather live? You mention the weather of AZ. IA is not like that.

Getting the best education possible sounds appealing (though, you can't really figure that out just by ranking and match lists because it depends on YOUR goals too), but it's not always the best choice.

 

[shepardsun]

When I had to make a similar decision, I decided happiness was the most important factor, followed by money (of course, this may be different for each individual). Med school is stressful, but you will have time for a social life that you'll want and need to relieve some of that stress. Part of this is also the "fit" with the school, and for me was also being closer to family. While I wanted to have the adventure of going somewhere new, I figured med school may actually be the time to be somewhere a little more familiar so that I'd have the support of my family when times got rough. Bottom line: you need to go where you'll be happier. You can find your own opportunities to shine no matter where you go, and doing well on Step 1 and 2 and clinical grades will still make you competitive for residency whether you're at UofA or Iowa. If you absolutely loved Iowa and felt you fit in there better than UofA, I'd say go there, or vice-versa.

And the finances thing: for me the difference would have been over $100,000 for four years, so I agree that $44,000 shouldn't make your mind up for you. Go where you'll be happier - you'll be so thankful you did this.

Absolutely go where you'll be the happiest. I made the choice to be happy vs. going to a school that was significantly more "prestigious" (not that that means anything in the long run AT ALL) AND cheaper and I've never regretted it for a second. That said, if the school in question is the Tucson campus go to Iowa.

 

[shepardsun]

Let me expand on that last sentiment a little briefly- when your personal/emotional life is clicking and you have family and friends to support you and chill out with when you're not doing school stuff, med school is the greatest experience in the history of sliced anything. When stuff in your personal life isn't so hot and you're going through a rough patch, med school can become the biggest millstone hanging around your neck that you could possibly imagine. To have non-medical friends and family around to turn to when stuff like that happens is a life saver. For me being who I am, traveling somewhere where I didn't have that support structure would mean that school would pretty much be the only thing I would have on my plate. And if I was dealing with the same issues and only had school as an outlet, I would burn out so fast it's not even funny.

 

[BaronVonZ]

It is the Tucson campus

Honestly, part of the problem is I have NO idea where I'll be happier. Weather and proximity to family are definitely plusses for U of A, but I've been in AZ for about 5 years now and I'm pretty ready to go... I've moved my whole life and Arizona isn't the greatest fit for me (Not to bag on it at all, I'm just a big fan of liberal old European-style cities… think Boston/Montreal/Sussex). I'm sure I'll be reasonably happy at U of A, but I probably won't LOVE it.

Iowa city, on the other hand, is a bit of a wild card. Everyone who has lived there seems to love it, but when I visited the town it seemed just awful... I'm not sure what kind of culture I'll be able to dig up. Definitely some nice research opportunities, but will the student body really be any different? I don't know. I suspect I won't like the weather, but I wouldn't mind snagging an academic opportunity if one exists. Maybe I'll love the program and the people. Maybe I'll hate the weather and the program won't particularly speak to me. I really don't know.

I'm so lost… I'm more than happy with either school, but picking between them is a lost cause.

 

[TVmed]

Would you consider coming to Phoenix for your rotations during 3rd and 4th year? I've lived in AZ for way too long too, but Phoenix has really grown on me as a city. It might be something to factor into your equation, in my opinion it seems like the hospitals up there have some really awesome opportunities. Just something to think about.

 

[334961]

... nevermind. A few posters said it far more eloquently than I did here http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=823068 (near the bottom).

IMO $44K + interest is enough to buy a nice luxury car - it's not entirely trivial.

 

[BaronVonZ]

Sorry for the bump, but the situation has changed a bit, money-wise. Both schools are now the same cost exacty. U of A still offers me proximity to family and sunshine, where Iowa seems to have a stronger match results and student body stats.

Just how small are the differences between a 20-something and 70-something ranked school? Would I get better prep by going to Iowa? I was leaning towards U of A but now the money is a non-issue...

 

[byurazorhog]

Sorry for the bump, but the situation has changed a bit, money-wise. Both schools are now the same cost exacty. U of A still offers me proximity to family and sunshine, where Iowa seems to have a stronger match results and student body stats.

Just how small are the differences between a 20-something and 70-something ranked school? Would I get better prep by going to Iowa? I was leaning towards U of A but now the money is a non-issue...

I did not interview at Iowa but it's apparently an up-and-coming medical school. I know USNWR rankings aren't to be taken too literally but IMO they're a fairly accurate measure of research clout. Not sure if you're into research but if you're aiming for a competitive residency, having access to top scientists that have a strong record of attracting NIH funding as is the case at Iowa would be a valuable resource at your disposal. The fact that they have the financial funding to give you an OOS tuition waiver should be an indication of their strong support base. As you have mentioned, Iowa does have "better" match lists that Arizona's. I don't care if people say you should caution against reading too much into the match lists but the fact is Iowa has established tracks into competitive residencies. At the very least you will have mentors and alums at Iowa who can steer you into the specialties of your choice. I had to make a similar decision between my state school and a Midwest school also. I went with the midwest school for reasons I just explained. I say go with Iowa; I can tell you will be happier there.