PAs/NPs attempting to "cancel culture" the AMA

[DrNotaDr]

@DrNotaDr I have to hear the response to this. I have to. Explain who the boogy man is that is threatening your license because I really, truly, legitimately need to know.

If you don’t understand the nursing lobby, I’m not able to help you. Just know a lot of people on this thread are quietly nodding along to my posts.

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[VA Hopeful Dr]

No, so it’s even worse, I have a license to lose.

You honestly expect me to believe that your state nursing board would revoke your license for criticizing the nursing lobby's political agenda?

I'm going to need evidence that this is happening.

 

[Neopolymath]

I believe your heart is in the right place, but the current “greedy bastards” (your words, not mine) will be replaced by the current patient care crusaders. When you’ve got 3 kids to put through college you’re going to say “well they got theirs so I’m going to go get mine.” You may say it will never happen, I’m a true believer, and you’d be wrong. Sorry guys.

I'm already rich and given I chose a terrible way to make that number grow by going to med school I think I can say I'm not going to lose all my integrity and go the route of low level providers and boomer docs at the expense of patients.

If you don’t understand the nursing lobby, I’m not able to help you. Just know a lot of people on this thread are quietly nodding along to my posts.

Apparently I know the nursing lobby better than you. You aren't the only one who is or is family to nurses lol.You jumped the shark trolling on this one and it's time to retire.

"The NP organizations will take my license for not being on their team. They will not take my license for bad medical care as evidenced by current events."

Bravo.

 

[DrNotaDr]

You honestly expect me to believe that your state nursing board would revoke your license for criticizing the nursing lobby's political agenda?

I'm going to need evidence that this is happening.

Do you want me to risk my future career by antagonizing an organization that has successfully lobbied 30 plus state governments, the VA, and the federal government, and consistently won, in spite of the objections of a lobby as powerful as the AMA?

I know the nursing lobby. No sane person would risk that target on my back. What I’m going to focus on is self studying and learning as much of the material I’m deficient in so I can continue to grow and be a safe and solid clinician. If you guys think my position is absurd then I don’t think you understand the nursing world and you probably never will.

 

[DrNotaDr]

I'm already rich and given I chose a terrible way to make that number grow by going to med school I think I can say I'm not going to lose all my integrity and go the route of low level providers and boomer docs at the expense of patients.

Apparently I know the nursing lobby better than you. You aren't the only one who is or is family to nurses lol.You jumped the shark trolling on this one and it's time to retire.

"The NP organizations will take my license for not being on their team. They will not take my license for bad medical care as evidenced by current events."

Bravo.

“I know a nurse so I know everything about the nursing lobby”... spare me.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Do you want me to risk my future career by antagonizing an organization that has successfully lobbied 30 plus state governments, the VA, and the federal government, and consistently won, in spite of the objections of a lobby as powerful as the AMA?

I know the nursing lobby. No sane person would risk that target on my back. What I’m going to focus on is self studying and learning as much of the material I’m deficient in so I can continue to grow and be a safe and solid clinician. If you guys think my position is absurd then I don’t think you understand the nursing world and you probably never will.

That's the thing, its NOT risking your career. Licensing boards don't care about your politics so long as you aren't endangering patients (and even then they don't actually act all that often). The nursing lobby doesn't grant you a license.

 

[DrNotaDr]

That's the thing, its NOT risking your career. Licensing boards don't care about your politics so long as you aren't endangering patients (and even then they don't actually act all that often). The nursing lobby doesn't grant you a license.

I’ve always respected your opinion on these boards but in this instance you are dead wrong. It’s dangerous.

 

[Ho0v-man]

I’ve always respected your opinion on these boards but in this instance you are dead wrong. It’s dangerous.

I’m REALLY trying to believe this. Any actual citations to back up these claims?

 

[Neopolymath]

I’m REALLY trying to believe this. Any actual citations to back up these claims?

It's right there in the legally binding bylaws, duh.

This is the longest I have been legitimately entertained and having a great time with a troll. +1 for the username too. I take my hat off to this.

 

[DrNotaDr]

I’m REALLY trying to believe this. Any actual citations to back up these claims?

It's right there in the legally binding bylaws, duh.

This is the longest I have been legitimately entertained and having a great time with a troll. +1 for the username too. I take my hat off to this.

Call me a troll all you want. Many states allow anonymous complaints against nurses and NP’s. If I start a crusade against my own profession, I better have a backup profession waiting for me. If you think joining the PPP in the physician world is the equivalent to an NP attacking the very foundation of the NP profession then I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Call me a troll all you want. Many states allow anonymous complaints against nurses and NP’s. If I start a crusade against my own profession, I better have a backup profession waiting for me. If you think joining the PPP in the physician world is the equivalent to an NP attacking the very foundation of the NP profession then I have a bridge to sell you.

You realize how many of us openly and non-anonymously criticize the AMA? Lobbying groups have no power over licensing. Sure people can anonymously report things to the board, but the boards are good at filtering out nonsense complaints.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Call me a troll all you want. Many states allow anonymous complaints against nurses and NP’s. If I start a crusade against my own profession, I better have a backup profession waiting for me. If you think joining the PPP in the physician world is the equivalent to an NP attacking the very foundation of the NP profession then I have a bridge to sell you.

A very long way to say you can’t backup these claims.

 

[DrNotaDr]

A very long way to say you can’t backup these claims.

Denial, Suspension, and Revocation of Certification

Information from the American Nurses Credentialing Center (ANCC), on the certification policy for the denial, suspension, and revocation of a certification

www.nursingworld.org

Points 11 and 12. You might ask would nurses do this to one of their own? Absolutely yes. In fact, this is as far as I’m willing to go in this discussion.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Denial, Suspension, and Revocation of Certification

Information from the American Nurses Credentialing Center (ANCC), on the certification policy for the denial, suspension, and revocation of a certification

www.nursingworld.org

Points 11 and 12. You might ask would nurses do this to one of their own? Absolutely yes.

So no then.

 

[DrNotaDr]

So no then.

Good lord look at the title of this entire thread?!? Do you think people who would try to “cancel culture” the entire AMA wouldn’t cancel one of their own?

 

[IsleyOfTheNorth]

How about my proving the individual new grad NP’s care about patient safety and want more time and more training.

It's a false dichotomy to say that people do or do not care about patient safety. (Not an attack of what you said, I'm just stating it.) It's a sliding scale. Do I care enough about patient safety to turn down a job that pays more but is more likely to result in harm to patients? How much money? How much harm? Everyone is on that sliding scale somewhere.

I'm not saying that patient should or should not be everyone's #1 concern - that's an argument for another time.

Having said that, let's pretend that someone wanted to be a primary care provider and patient safety was their #1 concern, what type of medical training would they seek out?

 

[Ho0v-man]

Good lord look at the title of this entire thread?!? Do you think people who would try to “cancel culture” the entire AMA wouldn’t cancel one of their own?

There’s literally video interviews of NPs identifying themselves and saying they don’t agree with the AANP. To my knowledge, the secret nurse mafia has yet to leave a horse head in their beds.

Like I totally get not wanting to do it bc some Kool-aid guzzling NP could hurt you getting a job one day. But this is ridiculous.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Good lord look at the title of this entire thread?!? Do you think people who would try to “cancel culture” the entire AMA wouldn’t cancel one of their own?

Canceling someone on Twitter is not the same as revoking your license, which I’m sure you know. Stop moving the goalposts, putting up straw men, and using ad hominems.

 

[Neopolymath]

There’s literally video interviews of NPs identifying themselves and saying they don’t agree with the AANP. To my knowledge, the secret nurse mafia has yet to leave a horse head in their beds.

Like I totally get not wanting to do it bc some Kool-aid guzzling NP could hurt you getting a job one day. But this is ridiculous.

How is this imaginary mean NP going to stop him getting a job from the two paths to a job? A doc hires them (doesn't care) or they are independent (no boss to hire them in the first place).

 

[DrNotaDr]

It's a false dichotomy to say that people do or do not care about patient safety. (Not an attack of what you said, I'm just stating it.) It's a sliding scale. Do I care enough about patient safety to turn down a job that pays more but is more likely to result in harm to patients? How much money? How much harm? Everyone is on that sliding scale somewhere.

I'm not saying that patient should or should not be everyone's #1 concern - that's an argument for another time.

Having said that, let's pretend that someone wanted to be a primary care provider and patient safety was their #1 concern, what type of medical training would they seek out?

They should be a physician, OR they could go the midlevel route and commit to spending many years under close supervision to be able to build up the knowledge to be safe in a solo gig, which is what I and many of the NP’s I know are doing. The SDN lie is that “all” NP’s are loose cannons wanting to practice unsupervised out of the gate with “500 hours of shadowing all online” which is just 100% lies that that’s what ALL NP’s get for education and ALL NP’s want solo practice immediately. That’s the lies you guys are repeating to each other on this and a hundred other threads mostly because you like to hear yourselves speak.

 

[DrNotaDr]

How is this imaginary mean NP going to stop him getting a job from the two paths to a job? A doc hires them (doesn't care) or they are independent (no boss to hire them in the first place).

NP’s hire NP’s in many organizations. I don’t think you have enough knowledge to be posting here, maybe you should wait until you do

 

[Lawpy]

Midlevels should be held 100% responsible for any and all damages happening to patients under their care. Enough with midlevels hiding behind doctors' licenses and watching sadistically as doctors get sued. No. Midlevels should face the full brunt of malpractice lawsuits and pay off all damages by themselves and even face criminal punishments for harming patients. That will end this midlevel expansion scam for good.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Midlevels should be held 100% responsible for any and all damages happening to patients under their care. Enough with midlevels hiding behind doctors' licenses and watching sadistically as doctors get sued. No. Midlevels should face the full brunt of malpractice lawsuits and pay off all damages by themselves and even face criminal punishments for harming patients. That will end this midlevel expansion scam for good.

Or they should just not be allowed to practice independently in the first place, and should require adequate supervision. You can’t provide adequate supervision, you can’t hire midlevels.

 

[Lawpy]

Or they should just not be allowed to practice independently in the first place, and should require adequate supervision. You can’t provide adequate supervision, you can’t hire midlevels.

A problem with that is admins forcing all doctors to supervise midlevels or threatening to fire them if they refuse.

 

[Neopolymath]

NP’s hire NP’s in many organizations. I don’t think you have enough knowledge to be posting here, maybe you should wait until you do

You caught me. I'm the guy making up stuff in the thread where a poster says the secret assassin nursing lobby is going to take their license for not being complicit in bad things.

Dude, I'm closely related to 6 different advanced nurses and other people who hire and fire for both private groups and a large hospital system lol. Let me know when you post the YouTube video of you in an interview where they say they aren't interested because you didn't pay your NP org dues lol.

Edit: and enough with the gatekeeping. This isn't r/medicine.

 

[Lawpy]

Also i really don't like the idea of midlevel supervision in academic settings since that'd result in residents and students getting shafted

 

[DrNotaDr]

You caught me. I'm the guy making up stuff in the thread where a poster says the secret assassin nursing lobby is going to take their license for not being complicit in bad things.

Dude, I'm closely related to 6 different advanced nurses and other people who hire and fire for both private groups and a large hospital system lol. Let me know when you post the YouTube video of you in an interview where they say they aren't interested because you didn't pay your NP org dues lol.

So you knew that NP’s hire and fire other NP’s but you pretended that you didn’t, and you pretended that it was a moral failing on my part to be careful with my future career? Because all that would make you a troll.

 

[Neopolymath]

So you knew that NP’s hire and fire other NP’s but you pretended that you didn’t, and you pretended that it was a moral failing on my part to be careful with my future career? Because all that would make you a troll.

I'm not pretending. It IS a moral failing.

You said yourself in this thread that you were going to find a job working under a doc so yeah when I say there are 2 paths for you I'm disregarding jobs where you are working for NPs.

 

[DrNotaDr]

I'm not pretending. It IS a moral failing.

You said yourself in this thread that you were going to find a job working under a doc so yeah when I say there are 2 paths for you I'm disregarding jobs where you are working for NPs.

“Working for NP’s”? Ok. You definitely don’t have the knowledge to be in this thread.

 

[Lawpy]

“Working for NP’s”? Ok. You definitely don’t have the knowledge to be in this thread.

NP preceptors tragically exist in some schools. That's a horrible situation and the schools should be severely slammed.

Utah med admissions idiotically and maliciously put a midlevel in adcom to interview applicants and ding them for criticizing midlevels or even saying the "midlevel" term.

 

[Captain_Falcon]

NP preceptors tragically exist in some schools. That's a horrible situation and the schools should be severely slammed.

Utah med admissions idiotically and maliciously put a midlevel in adcom committee to interview applicants and ding them for criticizing midlevels or even saying the "midlevel" term.

Wth? How far has academia fallen man

 

[Neopolymath]

“Working for NP’s”? Ok. You definitely don’t have the knowledge to be in this thread.

You put yourself in another untenable position here.

 

[DrNotaDr]

You put yourself in another untenable position here.

NP preceptors tragically exist in some schools. That's a horrible situation and the schools should be severely slammed.

Utah med admissions idiotically and maliciously put a midlevel in adcom to interview applicants and ding them for criticizing midlevels or even saying the "midlevel" term.

I didn’t, you just have very, very little knowledge, neo ... In my system, one of the biggest in the country, NP’s hire other NP’s and MD’s supervise them. I don’t care how many of your relatives are NP’s, if you don’t know basic stuff like that, you probably don’t belong in this debate.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

NP’s hire NP’s in many organizations. I don’t think you have enough knowledge to be posting here, maybe you should wait until you do

I've worked for 4 hospital systems in my time. NPs had no say in hires in any of them. I don't doubt its true in some places, but I'd be surprised if its even a majority much less enough to actually prevent people from finding jobs.

 

[Ho0v-man]

I didn’t, you just have very, very little knowledge @neo... In my system, one of the biggest in the country, NP’s hire other NP’s and MD’s supervise them. I don’t care how many of your relatives are NP’s, if you don’t know basic stuff like that, you probably don’t belong in this debate.

This is sad. You’re losing the argument on multiple fronts and instead of just admitting you’re wrong you just keep moving the goalpost and trying to “cancel” the winners. This thread is literally about you lol.

 

[DrNotaDr]

I've worked for 4 hospital systems in my time. NPs had no say in hires in any of them. I don't doubt its true in some places, but I'd be surprised if its even a majority much less enough to actually prevent people from finding jobs.

If it’s the biggest major hospital system in the state I live in and have over a decade of time in that system then yes. It’s very, very very relevant.

 

[DrNotaDr]

This is sad. You’re losing the argument on multiple fronts and instead of just admitting you’re wrong you just keep moving the goalpost and trying to “cancel” the winners. This thread is literally about you lol.

I’m responding to each point logically, you just don’t have a response to what I’m saying so you’re ad hom.

 

[Ho0v-man]

I've worked for 4 hospital systems in my time. NPs had no say in hires in any of them. I don't doubt its true in some places, but I'd be surprised if its even a majority much less enough to actually prevent people from finding jobs.

Most places at least ask employees if they’ve heard of a person when they worked somewhere in common with a considered applicant. Not terribly unreasonable imo.

 

[Neopolymath]

I didn’t, you just have very, very little knowledge, neo ... In my system, one of the biggest in the country, NP’s hire other NP’s and MD’s supervise them. I don’t care how many of your relatives are NP’s, if you don’t know basic stuff like that, you probably don’t belong in this debate.

I'll save my breath on why I said what I said because you aren't going to understand it apparently and ask you a question. What evidence is there that you will not have a job if you don't act complicit to your lobby? Is this mythical NP interviewing you checking that you paid your dues to the orgs? Please send me the video from the interview where this happened.

 

[Ho0v-man]

I’m responding to each point logically, you just don’t have a response to what I’m saying so you’re ad hom.

You’re the one just trying to shut down other posters like your the adult and we’re all little kids or something. You’ve been ridiculous here for a while.

 

[DrNotaDr]

I'll save my breath on why I said what I said because you aren't going to understand it apparently and ask you a question. What evidence is there that you will not have a job if you don't act complicit to your lobby? Is this mythical NP interviewing you checking that you paid your dues to the orgs? Please send me the video from the interview where this happened.

I’ll take that as you admitting you’re wrong.

 

[DrNotaDr]

You’re the one just trying to shut down other posters like your the adult and we’re all little kids or something. You’ve been ridiculous here for a while.

Not to you. You’ve been respectful and reasonable. Not to VAdoc, he’s also respectful. I’m simply treating the disrespectful people appropriately.

 

[Neopolymath]

I’ll take that as you admitting you’re wrong.

I'm glad we have made progress in this thread. You now admit without a fight that you are complicit and actively contributing to unsafe healthcare through your money and behavior. You even tell us why through an imaginary story about the nursing lobby singling your finances out as mutiny. I'm glad you aren't pretending anymore.

You talk about respect. Respect is not giving money to orgs that actively work toward harming people like someone else's grandmother for fear of losing an imaginary job in a situation that you can't prove ever happened. Great, I'll be a puritan online when you don't harm lives with your checkbook. It's a deal. #artofthedeal

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

If it’s the biggest major hospital system in the state I live in and have over a decade of time in that system then yes. It’s very, very very relevant.

So there are no other employers in that state then?

 

[DrNotaDr]

So there are no other employers in that state then?

Sure, but I have 10+ years in this system. I like the docs I work with. I like learning from them. I know many of them want to see me succeed personally and professionally. I like the organization as a whole. I guess I’d just tell you don’t hate the player, hate the game.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Sure, but I have 10+ years in this system. I like the docs I work with. I like learning from them. I know many of them want to see me succeed personally and professionally. I like the organization as a whole. I guess I’d just tell you don’t hate the player, hate the game.

So you think that after 10+ years in a job with doctors that like you, you'd still get fired for bein critical of some aspects of the nursing lobby's positions?

If this is a legitimate fear then things are way worse than any of us actually realized.

 

[DrNotaDr]

So you think that after 10+ years in a job with doctors that like you, you'd still get fired for bein critical of some aspects of the nursing lobby's positions?

If this is a legitimate fear then things are way worse than any of us actually realized.

I don’t think I’d be fired on the spot, no. If I wanted to move into a different field it could come back to bite me. I’m not willing to take that chance. It’s not really an extreme position for me to take.

I am on these boards talking openly about concerns I have with NP education. I’ve done it many times in the past. That’s not doing nothing.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

A problem with that is admins forcing all doctors to supervise midlevels or threatening to fire them if they refuse.

The medical board can step in there maybe. Also if specialties took a stand together, that would ****ing end real quick.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I don’t think I’d be fired on the spot, no. If I wanted to move into a different field it could come back to bite me. I’m not willing to take that chance. It’s not really an extreme position for me to take.

I am on these boards talking openly about concerns I have with NP education. I’ve done it many times in the past. That’s not doing nothing.

It’s doing next to nothing. Also weren’t you just arguing earlier that NPs don’t provide inferior care?

 

[DrNotaDr]

It’s doing next to nothing. Also weren’t you just arguing earlier that NPs don’t provide inferior care?

Nope. I was arguing that you can’t prove that they do. I think they do, but is it so inferior that they don’t have a place in healthcare?