PAs/NPs attempting to "cancel culture" the AMA

[MedicineZ0Z]

American Medical Association

American Medical Association. 609,650 likes · 1,907 talking about this. The American Medical Association: Physicians’ Powerful Ally in Patient Care.

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Finally AMA stands up for doctors and midlevels come out in full force to attack the AMA on both Facebook and IG.

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[TwoHighways]

screw the ama and every other healthcare lobby organization.

 

[7331poas]

screw the ama and every other healthcare lobby organization.

No way you are a real account lmao.

 

[Lawpy]

Good on AMA. We need aggressive physician lobbying. Midlevels were encroaching into physician territory because of their aggressive lobbying. Fighting back is necessary.

 

[TwoHighways]

Nah, we need no lobbying from any health org. That goes for mid levels and nurses as well

 

[Spetzler-Martin]

Can someone provide more context? What exactly happened here?

 

[7331poas]

Nah, we need no lobbying from any health org. That goes for mid levels and nurses as well

Yes that is very smart. And im sure the good natured politicians will generously provide competitive reimbursement rates in return.

 

[TwoHighways]

We shouldn’t have government involved in reimbursement rates. Medicare and Medicaid should not exist. All they have done is drive health care costs higher. Kinda like student loans and college tuition

 

[Steve_Zissou]

Good on AMA. We need aggressive physician lobbying. Midlevels were encroaching into physician territory because of their aggressive lobbying. Fighting back is necessary.

I love how the AMA says “physicians should lead the team” and midlevels respond with “that’s unprofessional and unethical.” They have to be living in a ****ing fantasy world.

 

[Spetzler-Martin]

I love how the AMA says “physicians should lead the team” and midlevels respond with “that’s unprofessional and unethical.” They have to be living in a ****ing fantasy world.

Physicians go through 4 years of schooling, an extra 3-7 years of training on top of that, plus an extra year or two of fellowships. I'm fairly confident they should be leading the team over someone who only went through 2 years of training. lol

So glad that I'm shooting for a surgical speciality. There's no way that midlevels can take over surgery. Patients definitely would not feel comfortable with that.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

Physicians go through 4 years of schooling, an extra 3-7 years of training on top of that, plus an extra year or two of fellowships. I'm fairly confident they should be leading the team over someone who only went through 2 years of training. lol

So glad that I'm shooting for a surgical speciality. There's no way that midlevels can take over surgery. Patients definitely would not feel comfortable with that.

Some NP on Twitter was saying that leadership and holistic care are out of the scope of physicians. These people are truly deluded.

I don’t know man, midlevels can creep in on anything.

 

[and 99 others]

I'm especially a fan of this little gem. Time to do away with med school and go straight from BSN to residency

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I'm especially a fan of this little gem. Time to do away with med school and go straight from BSN to residency
View attachment 322029

These people are truly delusional. It would be hilarious if they weren’t out there hurting people and providing substandard care.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Lol, the AMA will probably issue an apology. If the AMA wanted me to support them, they would have taken a stand at least a decade ago.

 

[slowthai]

Lol, the AMA will probably issue an apology. If the AMA wanted me to support them, they would have taken a stand at least a decade ago.

Yup, too little, too late.

 

[scoopdaboop]

Just wait. The new NP programs will let in tons of unnecessary workers. A hospital will always need physicians cuz 1 - we're faster, 2 - miss less obvious crap, 3- earn more for the hospital.

There's already examples of a hospital losing millions because of some NP missing something obvious killing a patient and being sued.

This reminds me of a funny line from a comedian I remember; it was akin to that of "Why do some people care if gay marriage is legal, because even if they are allowed to here, you can rest assured that these people will be stopped from entering heaven by god in the after life". It's a good point TBH.

Same thing. These NPs will suffer the consequence of their actions in the after life when they have to answer for their logic in why they advocated for what they did.

 

[Ultimax]

Finally, AMA should have done this long ago. The previous generations of physician screwed it up for all of us. There is no short cut to medicine, and being a physician mean many sacrifices will be made. Do you know that its possible to become a nurse practitioner via direct entry program with zero nursing experience and 500-700 clinical hours at most? Heck, 4th year student has 6000 hours and not allowed to diagnose independently.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Finally, AMA should have done this long ago. The previous generations of physician screwed it up for all of us. There is no short cut to medicine, and being a physician mean many sacrifices will be made. Do you know that its possible to become a nurse practitioner via direct entry program with zero nursing experience and 500-700 clinical hours at most? Heck, 4th year student has 6000 hours and not allowed to diagnose independently.

Someone posted on reddit (can’t remember if it was r/residency or r/noctor) that they are an intern and an NP student canceled an order they put in, and their patient ended up in the ICU because of it. At that hospital (big academic program), NP STUDENTS are seen as equivalent to residents and having ordering privileges.

Is this real life?

 

[Cornfed101]

Someone posted on reddit (can’t remember if it was r/residency or r/noctor) that they are an intern and an NP student canceled an order they put in, and their patient ended up in the ICU because of it. At that hospital (big academic program), NP STUDENTS are seen as equivalent to residents and having ordering privileges.

Is this real life?

The administrators are probably getting their education on the difference between NPs and physicians from the comments section of the above post.

NPs learn more in undergrad than you did through all of medical school and residency! Don’t think you can fool us with your fancy degree


/s

 

[scoopdaboop]

Someone posted on reddit (can’t remember if it was r/residency or r/noctor) that they are an intern and an NP student canceled an order they put in, and their patient ended up in the ICU because of it. At that hospital (big academic program), NP STUDENTS are seen as equivalent to residents and having ordering privileges.

Is this real life?

That's just pathetic. TBH, part of the problem is these NP's believing they are just as equal as physicians, but they "chose a different path, and thought NP was better". Sad. Even worse is that the NP probably had little ramification for their action, but if a med student or resident/intern canceled an attending's order...we can imagine what would happen. Worst part is that elite programs like John Hopkins etc. have crappy NP training also and I bet they cater to them like no other because if they were treated the same as an intern or resident, they would complain and moan... they are incapable of having any mental grit.

 

[Medmortise]

All of you with your heads in the sand should read the comments of this post on facebook and twitter. Notice the number of midlevels who think they are equal or better to attending physicians. Just the mere thought of physician led care is seen as an attack on their entire profession. God forbid, the most highly trained member of the team should be leading the team. Also notice the number of physicians trying to silence AMA on their stance. I hope the AMA only escalates educating the public more rather than back down like they usually do.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

Gotta love the mid levels who lack basic reading skills and are posting things like “thanks for calling PAs creeps.”

 

[Lawpy]

Also notice the number of physicians trying to silence AMA on their stance.

It's doctors like those guys who actively destroy the profession by selfishly promoting midlevel practice rights while malignantly sabotaging trainees

 

[Mr. Nightmare]

Yet many many physicians still hire midlevels because they make money for their practice.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

Physicians go through 4 years of schooling, an extra 3-7 years of training on top of that, plus an extra year or two of fellowships. I'm fairly confident they should be leading the team over someone who only went through 2 years of training. lol

So glad that I'm shooting for a surgical speciality. There's no way that midlevels can take over surgery. Patients definitely would not feel comfortable with that.

Don't forget the thousand board exams and the very obvious difference in intelligence that we cannot point out.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

All of you with your heads in the sand should read the comments of this post on facebook and twitter. Notice the number of midlevels who think they are equal or better to attending physicians. Just the mere thought of physician led care is seen as an attack on their entire profession. God forbid, the most highly trained member of the team should be leading the team. Also notice the number of physicians trying to silence AMA on their stance. I hope the AMA only escalates educating the public more rather than back down like they usually do.

It should be a call for docs to swarm the page with comments and likes. At least go through and like the pro physician comments.

It's doctors like those guys who actively destroy the profession by selfishly promoting midlevel practice rights while malignantly sabotaging trainees

They wanna make an extra buck and cash out.

 

[JP2740]

Someone posted on reddit (can’t remember if it was r/residency or r/noctor) that they are an intern and an NP student canceled an order they put in, and their patient ended up in the ICU because of it. At that hospital (big academic program), NP STUDENTS are seen as equivalent to residents and having ordering privileges.

Is this real life?

What the ****?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

That's just pathetic. TBH, part of the problem is these NP's believing they are just as equal as physicians, but they "chose a different path, and thought NP was better". Sad. Even worse is that the NP probably had little ramification for their action, but if a med student or resident/intern canceled an attending's order...we can imagine what would happen. Worst part is that elite programs like John Hopkins etc. have crappy NP training also and I bet they cater to them like no other because if they were treated the same as an intern or resident, they would complain and moan... they are incapable of having any mental grit.

Apparently the intern’s attending was furious and is filing an incident report and the intern has already filed one.

The NP student will probably file a professionalism complaint against the attending and intern.

Edit: some folks involved in building EMRs chimed in and said that the placing of NP students on the same level as residents in the EMR was likely done by an admin making the options who had no clue what that meant and then never gave it another thought. Apparently in some places CNAs can put in orders because that’s how the system was set up.

So NP students probably don’t usually put in orders there and this student just has a remarkable level of hubris.

 

[Cornfed101]

an admin making the options who had no clue what that meant and then never gave it another thought.

Isn’t this the root of most of the problems physicians face? The decision makers have absolutely no clue what they are doing.

The NPs are to blame when they are crying for equality with much less training, but the blame also rests on admins that have no clue and are listening to insanity

 

[JoaoMoutinho]

Well, unless I'm just bad at technology it looks like they took the post down. So much for that.

 

[popopopop]

Well, unless I'm just bad at technology it looks like they took the post down. So much for that.

This is bad. That's pretty much like backing down.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

This is bad. That's pretty much like backing down.

This is why the PPP is especially necessary.

 

[Cornfed101]

Hopefully they don’t replace it with #pleasestealourjobs

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yep they already took it down. So pathetic.

 

[Lawpy]

We need far better lobbying. AMA is a joke.

 

[MedicineZ0Z]

And of course they took it down. Ridiculous.

 

[Spetzler-Martin]

And of course they took it down. Ridiculous.

This is the definition of cancel culture.

 

[RangerBob]

That's unfortunate. I almost considered re-joining the AMA. Like many, the last time I was a member I was in med school.

After moving six times since I was a member, they still know where to find me. I swear, if you ever need to locate someone in the US, forget the IRS or the CIA--just go straight to the AMA and ask them.

 

[Ganon]

Well, nobody was defending the post on FB. Seems like people are less likely to speak out from an identifiable account...

 

[RocuROMANium]

I work in a busy emergency department as an ED tech. A couple of weeks ago I was in triage talking to one of our NP’s and she asked me if I was applying to PA school or medical school. I told her the latter and she remarked that she wished she would have pursued medicine instead of NP because, “NP’s get paid a fraction of what physicians make although they do the same thing.”

One of the huge issues is that the only people who truly know the difference between the two professions are NP’s and MD/DO’s. I have worked with RN’s long enough, and am married to an RN as well, to know that they don’t really understand the difference.

 

[fldoctorgirl]

The best part about this was how every single "medfluencer" on Instagram went on a rant about how they stand with their NP colleagues and medicine is a team and they are TOTALLY AGAINST what the AMA said. Ridiculous. We're destroying ourselves.

 

[scoopdaboop]

The best part about this was how every single "medfluencer" on Instagram went on a rant about how they stand with their NP colleagues and medicine is a team and they are TOTALLY AGAINST what the AMA said. Ridiculous. We're destroying ourselves.

Those medfluencer's on instagram are all weird. They all have the same looking profile and the random 10 + stories that nobody cares about.

 

[Lawpy]

Well, nobody was defending the post on FB. Seems like people are less likely to speak out from an identifiable account...

That's because they don't really care about the profession if they're scared to call out midlevels for their lies

 

[Lawpy]

I work in a busy emergency department as an ED tech. A couple of weeks ago I was in triage talking to one of our NP’s and she asked me if I was applying to PA school or medical school. I told her the latter and she remarked that she wished she would have pursued medicine instead of NP because, “NP’s get paid a fraction of what physicians make although they do the same thing.”

One of the huge issues is that the only people who truly know the difference between the two professions are NP’s and MD/DO’s. I have worked with RN’s long enough, and am married to an RN as well, to know that they don’t really understand the difference.

I think RNs to MDs are intimately familiar with the difference and are crucial allies

 

[fldoctorgirl]

Those medfluencer's on instagram are all weird. They all have the same looking profile and the random 10 + stories that nobody cares about.

I agree. But unfortunately they're becoming a large part of the public face of medicine with a large following from people not in the medical field, and these posts are what the layperson will see. I just don't understand this fear people have of admitting that our education is superior. We sacrifice enough to be able to make the simple claim that physicians should be the leaders of the healthcare team without being torn down. I'm embarrassed for our profession that the AMA actually took the post down.

 

[Steve_Zissou]

The best part about this was how every single "medfluencer" on Instagram went on a rant about how they stand with their NP colleagues and medicine is a team and they are TOTALLY AGAINST what the AMA said. Ridiculous. We're destroying ourselves.

It’s because a lot of the influencers have large nursing followings and they would sell out their profession to keep getting that money.

 

[scoopdaboop]

How be a midlevel that NP/PA schools train you to be:

1- Be a NP/PA
2- Learn medicine from a doctor
3- Pretend you are now a doctor
4- Advocate for independent practice rights because you essentially shadowed a physician
5- If any physician advocates patients ask to see the most qualified person to give them medical care, call out physician for being jealous
6- Pretend physicians have no "hearts" and we're out for "just money"
7- Ignore the fact that physicians literally sacrifice years of their life to be able to provide the best medical care while working their tails off and earning average income
8- Never bring up the fact that you became a PA/NP because you realized you had a short cut way of pretending to be a doctor.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

It’s because a lot of the influencers have large nursing followings and they would sell out their profession to keep getting that money.

This. Zdogg is one of the worst. His response to it was such a sellout load of crap.

 

[RocuROMANium]

I think RNs to MDs are intimately familiar with the difference and are crucial allies

Maybe it's just the hospital that I work at or the particular nurses that I have worked with but a lot of RN's here do not know the significant differences between the two professions. I'm not saying they're all anti-physician, a lot are just ignorant of the scope of medical training and knowledge. This breeds a sort of laissez faire attitude with RN's towards mid-level autonomy and encroachment that permits this idea that NP's and PA's are simply underpaid physicians.

 

[Spetzler-Martin]

Maybe it's just the hospital that I work at or the particular nurses that I have worked with but a lot of RN's here do not know the significant differences between the two professions. I'm not saying they're all anti-physician, a lot are just ignorant of the scope of medical training and knowledge. This breeds a sort of laissez faire attitude with RN's towards mid-level autonomy and encroachment that permits this idea that NP's and PA's are simply underpaid physicians.

There are a lot of people in general society who don't even know what medical school even is. lol. I've had some relatives say that their kids go to medical school only to figure out later that their kids are actually at PT, dental, Pharm, or nursing school. To them it's all the same. Their kid is a "doctor"