PAs/NPs attempting to "cancel culture" the AMA

[FunkyFrog994]

There’s no need to be condescending. You easily could have said all of that without the condescending “kiddo” thrown in at the end. I get it was probably a reference to the article, but it’s still belittling.

Fair enough, however unlike the AMA I stand by what I said.

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[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Fair enough, however unlike the AMA I stand by what I said.

I agree with you. But every time we say something even remotely rude or condescending, their orgs will pounce on it as evidence that we’re “punching down” or whatever that means.

 

[underthesun]

I’m not straining against anything. I correct my patients a dozen times a day when they call me doctor, reminding them I’m a NP. However if someone tells me I haven’t earned the title I’ve earned but choose not to use, I’m still going to remind you I’m a doctor in academic or social settings anytime I want to called one, and there isn’t a thing you can do about it. If you’d ever correct me in a non medical environment you’d be asking for an argument, because you aren’t the arbitrator of my educational achievements, and really no one cares what you think.

Ok doctor.

It's funny that you've "earned" it but "choose not to use" it. It's as if you are already aware that your degree/training are inferior. And the funniest part is that you CAN'T use it in the hospital because that is illegal. It's totally worthless.

How about addressing the fact that your training and medical knowledge are woefully inadequate and ill-suited to the title "doctor"? That's the real issue. Go ahead and play doctor when you're in a bar trying to impress people. I'm more concerned with what happens at work.

 

[underthesun]

There is a guy who calls himself a cathopathic physician. The AANA changed their name to nurse anesthesiologists and just released a PR campaign saying removing physician supervision is the right thing to do. The PAs want to be called “clinical medical practitioners” or some crap. Nurses in the UK are going to be doing surgery unsupervised.

This guy is not nearly over the top enough for me to think he’s a troll account.

Have you read his whole page? Def a troll. Medical personnel are super easy to find on google, but I can't find a lick of info about him. Could be a pseudonym, but his recent MAGA posting and anti-vaccine posting points to troll

 

[DrNotaDr]

Ok doctor.

It's funny that you've "earned" it but "choose not to use" it. It's as if you are already aware that your degree/training are inferior. And the funniest part is that you CAN'T use it in the hospital because that is illegal. It's totally worthless.

How about addressing the fact that your training and medical knowledge are woefully inadequate and ill-suited to the title "doctor"? That's the real issue. Go ahead and play doctor when you're in a bar trying to impress people. I'm more concerned with what happens at work.

Neat post. I’m still a doctor. I’ll use it if I wish. Hope you’re able to work through this issue.

 

[DrNotaDr]

Have you read his whole page? Def a troll. Also, medical personnel are super easy to find on google. Can't find a lick of info about him. Also his recent MAGA posting and anti-vaccine posting points to troll

I still think this guy is actually a SDN poster. Legit.

 

[underthesun]

Neat post. I’m still a doctor. I’ll use it if I wish. Hope you’re able to work through this issue.

I recognize that you have a doctorate and are a "doctor". That wasn't the issue, and you know it. The issue is that your training blows and patients need to know about it

 

[DrNotaDr]

I recognize that you have a doctorate and are a "doctor". That wasn't the issue, and you know it. The issue is that your training blows and patients need to know about it

Sure. The DNP is a research/administrative hybred doctorate. It was never intended as a parity to MD. I don’t pretend it is. I’ve never pretended that. I’m not responsible for what other DNP’s do. I’m still a doctor. I’ll be one today. Tomorrow. Next week too. Hope you’ll be ok knowing that’s the reality.

 

[underthesun]

Sure. The DNP is a research/administrative hybred doctorate. It was never intended as a parity to MD. I don’t pretend it is. I’ve never pretended that. I’m not responsible for what other DNP’s do. I’m still a doctor. I’ll be one today. Tomorrow. Next week too. Hope you’ll be ok knowing that’s the reality.

*hybrid

You still won't address the issue, which is that your training sucks and is inadequate for providing independent patient care. I don't care if you have some BS doctorate or not

 

[DrNotaDr]

*hybrid

You still won't address the issue, which is that your training sucks and is inadequate for providing independent patient care. I don't care if you have some BS doctorate or not

Pretty sure I addressed the issue. Want me to cut my wrists and bleed on the keyboard in contrition for not having as good of training as MD’s? You’ll be ok... and I’m still a doctor.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Guys. I don’t want to have to thread ban y’all, but this isn’t the place to argue back and forth about whether you care if someone is a doctor or not.

If you want to discuss the training and such, that’s fine. But we’ve gotten it. @DrNotaDr has a doctorate and views their degree as conferring the title. Everyone move on.

 

[IsleyOfTheNorth]

Titles are based on field. A geologist with a PhD is a geologist. A nurse with a PhD is a nurse. A medical doctor with an medical doctorate is a medical doctor (or "doctor" for short).

Why wouldn't/shouldn't a nurse with a PhD be proud to be called themselves "Nurse"?

 

[DrNotaDr]

Titles are based on field. A geologist with a PhD is a geologist. A nurse with a PhD is a nurse. A medical doctor with an medical doctorate is a medical doctor (or "doctor" for short).

Why wouldn't/shouldn't a nurse with a PhD be proud to be called themselves "Nurse"?

I’d respond but the ban hammer loometh. Was told to move on and I think we should.

 

[Neopolymath]

Titles are based on field. A geologist with a PhD is a geologist. A nurse with a PhD is a nurse. A medical doctor with an medical doctorate is a medical doctor (or "doctor" for short).

Why wouldn't/shouldn't a nurse with a PhD be proud to be called themselves "Nurse"?

That gets in the way of the agenda. Surely all of these naïve med students have figured this out because NPs have stopped pretendings (PAs still pretending lol). These people aren't our friends in a big "hug everyone" healthcare team.

 

[underthesun]

Pretty sure I addressed the issue. Want me to cut my wrists and bleed on the keyboard in contrition for not having as good of training as MD’s? You’ll be ok... and I’m still a doctor.

No, I want nurses to quit pretending that they are capable of providing independent care to patients. It's nonsense. Your doctorate, whatever value you assign to it, does not make you competent to do that. Not even "MD" makes me competent to provide solo care to patients. My postgraduate training does. The differences in training are obvious, and it should be equally apparent that nurses have no business providing care for patients in this way.

 

[DrNotaDr]

No, I want nurses to quit pretending that they are capable of providing independent care to patients. It's nonsense. Your doctorate, whatever value you assign to it, does not make you competent to do that. Not even "MD" makes me competent to provide solo care to patients. My postgraduate training does. The differences in training are obvious, and it should be equally apparent that nurses have no business providing care for patients in this way.

You’re talking to one of the few NP’s who agrees with you. What else do you want me to say, exactly?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

No, I want nurses to quit pretending that they are capable of providing independent care to patients. It's nonsense. Your doctorate, whatever value you assign to it, does not make you competent to do that. Not even "MD" makes me competent to provide solo care to patients. My postgraduate training does. The differences in training are obvious, and it should be equally apparent that nurses have no business providing care for patients in this way.

Neither should PAs.

 

[Splenda88]

I’m not straining against anything. I correct my patients a dozen times a day when they call me doctor, reminding them I’m a NP. However if someone tells me I haven’t earned the title I’ve earned but choose not to use, I’m still going to remind you I’m a doctor in academic or social settings anytime I want to called one, and there isn’t a thing you can do about it. If you’d ever correct me in a non medical environment you’d be asking for an argument, because you aren’t the arbitrator of my educational achievements, and really no one cares what you think.

Apparently, most people care. The Jill Biden debate is all over the news.

 

[underthesun]

You’re talking to one of the few NP’s who agrees with you. What else do you want me to say, exactly?

Glad you asked. You can start by addressing the studies that @Matthew9Thirtyfive posted earlier in the thread. You know, the ones that you said you would address and then conveniently failed to do so?

 

[DrNotaDr]

Apparently, most people care. The Jill Biden debate is all over the news.

This article was written by a partisan activist blogger as click bait (successfully do) against a incoming evil democrat administration. Medical students and residents care. Most attending just shrug and go back to taking care of patients.

 

[DrNotaDr]

Glad you asked. You can start by addressing the studies that @Matthew9Thirtyfive posted earlier in the thread. You know, the ones that you said you would address and then conveniently failed to do so?

Why would I address them if I already pretty much agree with you. Your trolling cred is getting stretched.

 

[FunkyFrog994]

@DrNotaDr Out of curiosity in states where NPs are independently practicing how does the malpractice insurance situation work?

 

[NicMouse64]

Everyone watch this segment. Beatifully done. https://www.newsnationnow.com/investigation/transparencyinhealthcare/

 

[MLNS]

Everyone watch this segment. Beatifully done. Families sound alarm on medical transparency after deaths of their children

This new generation of physicians need to come together and take back our profession.

The outgoing generation has left us a giant turd in pretty much all walks of life. Medicine is no exception and they’ll stop at nothing to profit by selling away our field (look no further than Yale trying to incorporate PAs into their EM residency as “co-residents.”

It needs to stop and time for us to do it.

It starts with the m.oronic “provider” designation and ends with us not training, “overseeing”, or allowing midlevels to see our patients. Everyone deserves to see a physician for their healthcare. Period.

 

[sylvanthus]

o

I'd say it is appropriate. Meanings change with time. The swastika is not ever going to go back to its roots, or at least not anytime within the next 100 years. It's indelibly associated with Nazis. In the same way, when someone asks for a doctor they're talking about physicians. Looking at semantics to say hey I can tell a layperson that I'm a doctor is being willfully ignorant about how that is going to be interpreted. I don't really care if they do, personally - just as every nutritionist/NP/speech pathologist/janitor wears a white coat so does everyone try to co-opt legitimacy by pretending to be a physician. It's just one more thing. It's just humorous that they pretend to not know they're trying to present themselves as equivalent by muddying the waters.

This new generation of physicians need to come together and ta our profession

The outgoing generation has left us a giant turd in pretty much all walks of life. Medicine is no exception and they’ll stop at nothing to profit by selling away our field (look no further than Yale trying to incorporate PAs into their EM residency as “co-residents.”

It needs to stop and time for us to do it.

It starts with the m.oronic “provider” designation and ends with us not training, “overseeing”, or allowing midlevels to see our patients. Everyone deserves to see a physician for their healthcare. Period.

While I can appreciate your passion, we are screwed as a profession. Noone gives a rats ass about our training. The only reason DNPs exist is as a cost savings. Money>all. Noone can legit claim DNP training is equivalent.

We live in a superficial world, where titles and names no longer hold meaning. Everyone can claim to be whatever the hell they want now. Welcome to the destruction of medicine.

 

[deleted889094]

Neat. Still a doctor here though.

Username is a bit awkward here

 

[Lawpy]

o



While I can appreciate your passion, we are screwed as a profession. Noone gives a rats ass about our training. The only reason DNPs exist is as a cost savings. Money>all. Noone can legit claim DNP training is equivalent.

We live in a superficial world, where titles and names no longer hold meaning. Everyone can claim to be whatever the hell they want now. Welcome to the destruction of medicine.

Kick the corporate capitalists out of healthcare. That's how medicine can be improved. It only got worse when boomer physicians began selling out their practices to private equity and prioritizing maximizing profits by supervising as many midlevels as possible

 

[Lawpy]

I said it before and i'll say it again

When capitalism endangers patient care, reforms become necessary.

We need to have a lot stronger physician lobbying, and severely condemn midlevels, traitorous, selfish physicians and corporate capitalists for harming and killing patients with the sole desire of maximizing profits and minimizing costs.

 

[FutureInternist]

Saw the news report.

I have yet to meet a pharmacist or really any other team member who has introduced themselves as Doctor Smith..... except DNPs.

While technically correct, in that it is a terminal degree, in a clinical setting, specially in the high stress situation of an ER visit, a doctor should mean physician, and physician only.

Also reviewed the Johns Hopkins DNP curriculum, and she wasn’t kidding... I think I saw 2 course names that I recognised from medical school, while the rest were healthcare jargon.

Someone should ask these DNPs if they would be OK with me delivering their baby, given my 3 months of OB rotation, before I did IM... and I guarantee they will not.

 

[Ho0v-man]

Everyone watch this segment. Beatifully done. Families sound alarm on medical transparency after deaths of their children

Hate that it had to go this far. Watching it, I really did try to check my bias and give benefit of the doubt. But those vitals are pretty damning.

 

[underthesun]

That interview with the AANP president is shameful, and it’s obvious that they’re trying to blur the lines between nurse and physician just by the language she uses. She didn’t answer questions directly and wouldn’t even condemn online diploma mills! And her justification for NPs in healthcare is that different government associations support it. She’s a complete clown. Can’t believe I’m going to have to fight against bozos like this to make sure patients have physician led care. And Jesus Christ when they showed the pic of the sick kid I was immediately like “wow, she looks like death”. And these NP joker “doctors” can’t even recognize it.

 

[GoSpursGo]

This thread has more than run its course and past the point of being constructive.