OC/LA Groups (Sanitized Version)

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Thanks for the replies. I heard The partnership track is also 5 years at 175/he. The partners have to be doing well...the location is ideal for me. Wife makes good money so could swing it, but opportunity cost is very high. Anyone know anything about the group in Thousand Oaks? Verdugo Hills?

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But not West LA/Santa Monica/Brentwood which is some of the most expensive real estate in the world. If you own a house in the area, it’s not unreasonable to consider it part of your retirement plan.
100% true. I know some of the financial moguls who are on here have trashed the idea of relying on real estate as part of your portfolio, but in the highly desirable areas of California, owning a home is basically your retirement. It's real estate that will 99% of the time never lose value, even in an economic downturn. The same can't be said about the 5000 sq ft house in Kansas. And as you said, if he bought it long ago, not only did he get it probably on the cheaper side, but his property tax is also much lower. Moreover, I'm sure he doesn't want to sell and pay the capital gains tax and the new property tax that he would have on another California purchase.
 
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Thanks for the replies. I heard The partnership track is also 5 years at 175/he. The partners have to be doing well...the location is ideal for me. Wife makes good money so could swing it, but opportunity cost is very high. Anyone know anything about the group in Thousand Oaks? Verdugo Hills?
If your wife makes good money and can get you on her benefits it could work for you. Also make sure they have a plan where you can get a discount or they have a group plan for malpractice insurance.
 
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100% true. I know some of the financial moguls who are on here have trashed the idea of relying on real estate as part of your portfolio, but in the highly desirable areas of California, owning a home is basically your retirement. It's real estate that will 99% of the time never lose value, even in an economic downturn. The same can't be said about the 5000 sq ft house in Kansas. And as you said, if he bought it long ago, not only did he get it probably on the cheaper side, but his property tax is also much lower. Moreover, I'm sure he doesn't want to sell and pay the capital gains tax and the new property tax that he would have on another California purchase.
If you don’t sell it, how is it your retirement?
 
If you don’t sell it, how is it your retirement?

You can always borrow against it for living expenses. When you die, your heirs can sell it, pay off the equity loan and cash the rest. That’s actually what the bitcoiners promote but it’s probably a lot easier to borrow against a house.
 
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If you don’t sell it, how is it your retirement?
It's part of the diversified portfolio. I imagine Santa Monica homeowner MD, probably has other investments that will fund his/her retirement. The house is icing on the cake.
 
100% true. I know some of the financial moguls who are on here have trashed the idea of relying on real estate as part of your portfolio, but in the highly desirable areas of California, owning a home is basically your retirement. It's real estate that will 99% of the time never lose value, even in an economic downturn. The same can't be said about the 5000 sq ft house in Kansas. And as you said, if he bought it long ago, not only did he get it probably on the cheaper side, but his property tax is also much lower. Moreover, I'm sure he doesn't want to sell and pay the capital gains tax and the new property tax that he would have on another California purchase.
I agree, although for best results you should buy it as an investment. That may mean buying the 4M 3 bed 2 bath 2,000 square foot ranch house with an amazing ocean view/location instead of the 4M 4000 square foot ultra modern house with a view of a Dunkin’ Donuts. The house (structure) always depreciates over the course of 30 years while the land generally appreciates. And condos? Don’t bother (purely from an investment standpoint). Housing expenses in california aren’t a “waste” but not all houses are tickets to being a member of the 0.5% either.

We all prioritize various things above pure financial success. Whether that’s proximity to family/nature/ocean, walkability vs privacy, seasons vs no seasons or general culture of an area etc. living in california doesn’t have to be financially sensible for it to be sensible for a given person.
 
100% true. I know some of the financial moguls who are on here have trashed the idea of relying on real estate as part of your portfolio, but in the highly desirable areas of California, owning a home is basically your retirement. It's real estate that will 99% of the time never lose value, even in an economic downturn. The same can't be said about the 5000 sq ft house in Kansas. And as you said, if he bought it long ago, not only did he get it probably on the cheaper side, but his property tax is also much lower. Moreover, I'm sure he doesn't want to sell and pay the capital gains tax and the new property tax that he would have on another California purchase.

Past performance is no guarantee…. You know the rest.
 
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Past performance is no guarantee…. You know the rest.
There’s a reason people over spend in areas like LA, SF, NYC. The market that has always perplexed me is Boston. It’s just aa cold as Chicago but insanely more expensive. It’s a thread derailment but I’d love to hear theories. Probably supply vs demand issues but still “wicked cold” as they say
 
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There’s a reason people over spend in areas like LA, SF, NYC. The market that has always perplexed me is Boston. It’s just aa cold as Chicago but insanely more expensive. It’s a thread derailment but I’d love to hear theories. Probably supply vs demand issues but still “wicked cold” as they say

Old money. History.
 
There’s a reason people over spend in areas like LA, SF, NYC. The market that has always perplexed me is Boston. It’s just aa cold as Chicago but insanely more expensive. It’s a thread derailment but I’d love to hear theories. Probably supply vs demand issues but still “wicked cold” as they say

Boston: Booming biotech, good presence of silicon tech, old money, relatively conservative fiscal policy, good schools/universities in safe area, closer to east coast big metros.

Chicago: ran by generations of gangster politicians, rotten from core.
 
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Boston: Booming biotech, good presence of silicon tech, old money, relatively conservative fiscal policy, good schools/universities in safe area, closer to east coast big metros.

Chicago: ran by generations of gangster politicians, rotten from core.
Now when I really think about it that's all pretty true. Just too cold.
 
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How does one become a specialized thoracic anesthesiologist?
Sloan Kettering has a thoracic anesthesia fellowship. I guess there is not enough cardiac cancers for a CT one.
 
Sloan Kettering has a thoracic anesthesia fellowship. I guess there is not enough cardiac cancers for a CT one.

Had an attending that wouldn't stfu about doing that fellowship like 90% of anesthesiologists don't do thoracic without fellowship
 
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How does one become a specialized thoracic anesthesiologist?
Yeah like said above, thoracic fellowship. Or you do a high proportion of the thoracic cases for an academic center and are in charge of the thoracic anesthesiology rotation.
 
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While the idea of thoracic fellowship is dumb, there are a few select places that do very “high-end” thoracic which I would guess that not just anyone could handle (EPPs, HITEC, distal tracheal/carinal resection requiring ECMO, lung transplants if being done by thoracic surgeons, etc). With that being said, anyone with CT training could handle these cases- as could anyone who is “good” and gets some additional on the job training or experience. It certainly seems like a more specialized and difficult sub-set of skills that “OB anesthesia specialist”, for example.

So, I don’t think the idea of a “thoracic specialist” is worthless at face value... But there are probably only a couple of places in the country with the volume/complexity to justify such a need, and there is certainly not a need for a dedicated fellowship year. You shouldn’t call yourself a thoracic specialist if you’re doing VATS wedges and lobes all day. My 2 cents.
 
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While the idea of thoracic fellowship is dumb, there are a few select places that do very “high-end” thoracic which I would guess that not just anyone could handle (EPPs, HITEC, distal tracheal/carinal resection requiring ECMO, lung transplants if being done by thoracic surgeons, etc). With that being said, anyone with CT training could handle these cases- as could anyone who is “good” and gets some additional on the job training or experience. It certainly seems like a more specialized and difficult sub-set of skills that “OB anesthesia specialist”, for example.

So, I don’t think the idea of a “thoracic specialist” is worthless at face value... But there are probably only a couple of places in the country with the volume/complexity to justify such a need, and there is certainly not a need for a dedicated fellowship year. You shouldn’t call yourself a thoracic specialist if you’re doing VATS wedges and lobes all day. My 2 cents.

Hi Everyone, this is not about thoracic anesthesia fellowship. This is about anesthesia groups in LA and OC. Please read the title before you rush to educate everyone about your deep knowledge about fellowship programs. Thanks.
 
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Not quite LA/OC, but I'm curious why the group in Palm Springs is caught in a time-loop of needing to hire given it's resort location? (anyone see what I did there?)
 
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Not quite LA/OC, but I'm curious why the group in Palm Springs is caught in a time-loop of needing to hire given it's resort location? (anyone see what I did there?)

I think most groups need people atm. Job market is good, hard to come by people.
 
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Not quite LA/OC, but I'm curious why the group in Palm Springs is caught in a time-loop of needing to hire given it's resort location? (anyone see what I did there?)

I worked there early in my career for 2 years. Same summer temps as hell. It’s hard to live there.
 
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Hi Everyone, this is not about thoracic anesthesia fellowship. This is about anesthesia groups in LA and OC. Please read the title before you rush to educate everyone about your deep knowledge about fellowship programs. Thanks.
Lol, ok dude. Thanks for rushing to educate me with your knowledge of SDN etiquette. I thought people in Cali were supposed to be chill :cool:
 
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Not quite LA/OC, but I'm curious why the group in Palm Springs is caught in a time-loop of needing to hire given it's resort location? (anyone see what I did there?)
Lol-- literally just watched that last night.
 
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Seems like now envision has acquired placentia linda and Fountain Valley so now they own all the tenet hospitals in SoCal. They’re advertising $37/unit + call stipend. This is pretty good if they can hold this up…considering FV blended unit is in low 20s.
 
Seems like now envision has acquired placentia linda and Fountain Valley so now they own all the tenet hospitals in SoCal. They’re advertising $37/unit + call stipend. This is pretty good if they can hold this up…considering FV blended unit is in low 20s.
Fountain valley med/medi accounts for more than 80%, how can Envision get 37$/unit? Big subsidy from Telnet? Charity from VC?
 
Seems like now envision has acquired placentia linda and Fountain Valley so now they own all the tenet hospitals in SoCal. They’re advertising $37/unit + call stipend. This is pretty good if they can hold this up…considering FV blended unit is in low 20s.


It’s the changing market. They have to or they won’t be able to keep the doors open. I know one group just got their unit value bumped up by over 50% (from low 30s to >50) via hospital subsidy in addition to sizeable call stipends.
 
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It’s the changing market. They have to or they won’t be able to keep the doors open. I know one group just got their unit value bumped up by over 50% (from low 30s to >50) via hospital subsidy in addition to sizeable call stipends.
Where's that??
 
Whats the average in so cal these days in the LAish area?
I keep hearing low 30s, at many places with no call stipend. A group suggested to me that they were happy to pay $33 a unit and that this was an improvement over past years.
 
It’s below average although I know of one place still in the low 20s.

37 is above the avg rates in OC. Allied is 32-36, doesn't pay for blocks and has no call stipend.

Envisions pays for all three plus no partnership BS.

Nothing better in OC currently.
 
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37 is above the avg rates in OC. Allied is 32-36, doesn't pay for blocks and has no call stipend.

Envisions pays for all three plus no partnership BS.

Nothing better in OC currently.
Allied claims to pay 50$/unit on gaswork. What is the deal? only for partner after 6 year slavery?

 
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37 is above the avg rates in OC. Allied is 32-36, doesn't pay for blocks and has no call stipend.

Envisions pays for all three plus no partnership BS.

Nothing better in OC currently.


I don’t live or work in Orange County so I don’t know the average there. However, I know at least 2 groups doing much better than $37/u there.
 
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I don’t live or work in Orange County so I don’t know the average there. However, I know at least 2 groups doing much better than $37/u there.

Which groups? The only one I know of in OC that might be better than 37 is hoag...and that group is far from fair in terms of call, partnership, etc. Also most groups don't pay for regional in order to artificially subsidize the main unit value.

If you include call stipends, Envision would be over 42-43 plus they pay full asa value for nerve blocks.

Allied is 32 for non partners and 36 for partners with no call stipends. Orange coast is 35. Long beach memorial is less.

There might be a few small groups with sweet surgery centers but probably not mainstream groups.

Hopefully this continues to drive units up
 
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Pomona is not a desirable area and pretty far from orange county.

I dont know much about LA county rates

Pomona is a below average city but physicians wouldn't even live there except for 1 or 2 specific areas. They would live in one of the surrounding suburbs like Chino Hills, Claremont, San Dimas, La Verne, Walnut, etc that are safe and have good schools.

Also the ad is technically correct. Pomona Valley hospital is about 20 minutes without traffic to the Orange county border. One could probably live in Brea and commute without too much hassle (going against traffic typically).
 
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Allied claims to pay 50$/unit on gaswork. What is the deal? only for partner after 6 year slavery?


If they actually paid 50 a unit they wouldn't need to advertise on gaswork

"We rarely hire and only hire the best" lol. They have been running ads on gaswork continuously for years.
 
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Seems like now envision has acquired placentia linda and Fountain Valley so now they own all the tenet hospitals in SoCal. They’re advertising $37/unit + call stipend. This is pretty good if they can hold this up…considering FV blended unit is in low 20s.
It's possible that things have improved at Placentia Linda Hospital in the last 5-10 years, though I seriously doubt it. They used to be an open department where 30+ anesthesiologists kept privileges, even though a busy day at the hospital was two GI rooms and one full OR day spread among three operating rooms. Most of the "staff anesthesiologists" were old timers who had stable ASC gigs elsewhere, but felt like having hospital privileges was convenient for credentialing/dealing with insurance companies--and many didn't even do any cases at the hospital anymore. The surgeons were very much in charge. They could get their own room for something as simple as knee manipulation or carpal tunnel release, or weekend colonoscopies. They could (and did) request anesthesiologists--and all the surgeons who had insurance or cash-pay cases did precisely that.

They were playing musical chairs with their chairmen. One guy had to step down (and the hospital itself was fined) because the anesthesia chair didn't immediately discipline an anesthesiologist who was witnessed to molest an anesthetized female patient; instead, the anesthesiologist was allowed to molest another patient, this one a teenager. (Here's the story: Placentia-Linda Hospital fined $50,000 for sex assaults on patients). That chairman (who, to be clear, hadn't molested anybody; nor did he have proof that the molesting anesthesiologist had been a very bad boy) stepped down. They have had a couple of "chiefs" since, but that guy is back in charge.

Now, that guy is probably a nice guy, competent, professional, and up on all the latest trends, business buzz words, CME requirements, and clipboard mandates. But, for over a decade, he was unable to recruit a stable team of anesthesiologists in what should have been a decent gig, because he insisted on giving himself all the best cases.

So, yeah, $37/unit makes it much more attractive to be scheduled a bunch of medicaid podiatry cases. But, you're still going to be scheduled in the rooms with the big gaps, no blocks, and low starting units. Rest assured, the chief (and his friends) will get all the good cases. You'll do better than you would have done this time last year with a surgeon toying with the da Vinci for 8+ hours on a Medicaid patient, but it's still going to suck.

The big improvement should have been at Fountain Valley. Previously, those slobs were working for $18.50 a blended unit while their chief drove a Lambo. It appears that the slobs got a 100% pay raise. They should be ecstatic--even if they still have to work for the guy who had been playing them for chumps all these years. So, why is the hospital closing rooms under Envision's management? That's a good question, and one that doesn't seem to have a possible positive spin. Maybe all the Fountain Valley guys are helping out at Placentia Linda. I don't know.
 
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That sounds beyond awful. Why would anyone work in such a dumpster fire?!


I have a friend who moved from our decent practice to a terrible one in LA because her uncle owned the hospital. Family pressure/obligations. Her income was literally cut in half. Hopefully she’s in the uncle’s will.
 
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It's possible that things have improved at Placentia Linda Hospital in the last 5-10 years, though I seriously doubt it. They used to be an open department where 30+ anesthesiologists kept privileges, even though a busy day at the hospital was two GI rooms and one full OR day spread among three operating rooms. Most of the "staff anesthesiologists" were old timers who had stable ASC gigs elsewhere, but felt like having hospital privileges was convenient for credentialing/dealing with insurance companies--and many didn't even do any cases at the hospital anymore. The surgeons were very much in charge. They could get their own room for something as simple as knee manipulation or carpal tunnel release, or weekend colonoscopies. They could (and did) request anesthesiologists--and all the surgeons who had insurance or cash-pay cases did precisely that.

They were playing musical chairs with their chairmen. One guy had to step down (and the hospital itself was fined) because the anesthesia chair didn't immediately discipline an anesthesiologist who was witnessed to molest an anesthetized female patient; instead, the anesthesiologist was allowed to molest another patient, this one a teenager. (Here's the story: Placentia-Linda Hospital fined $50,000 for sex assaults on patients). That chairman (who, to be clear, hadn't molested anybody; nor did he have proof that the molesting anesthesiologist had been a very bad boy) stepped down. They have had a couple of "chiefs" since, but that guy is back in charge.

Now, that guy is probably a nice guy, competent, professional, and up on all the latest trends, business buzz words, CME requirements, and clipboard mandates. But, for over a decade, he was unable to recruit a stable team of anesthesiologists in what should have been a decent gig, because he insisted on giving himself all the best cases.

So, yeah, $37/unit makes it much more attractive to be scheduled a bunch of medicaid podiatry cases. But, you're still going to be scheduled in the rooms with the big gaps, no blocks, and low starting units. Rest assured, the chief (and his friends) will get all the good cases. You'll do better than you would have done this time last year with a surgeon toying with the da Vinci for 8+ hours on a Medicaid patient, but it's still going to suck.

The big improvement should have been at Fountain Valley. Previously, those slobs were working for $18.50 a blended unit while their chief drove a Lambo. It appears that the slobs got a 100% pay raise. They should be ecstatic--even if they still have to work for the guy who had been playing them for chumps all these years. So, why is the hospital closing rooms under Envision's management? That's a good question, and one that doesn't seem to have a single positive answer. Maybe all the Fountain Valley guys are helping out at Placentia Linda. I don't know.

Not sure what happened 10 years ago but it isn't really relevant to today. Most hospitals change alot in 10 years

Currently it's heavy robotics, ortho, GI and general surgery. 4-5 packed rooms daily.

Rooms aren't closing but the management changes are recent so it always takes time to stabilize after a big change. It won't take long to recruit at $37 per unit in OC
 
lol LA anesthesia job market sounds like a ****ing JOKE yo. How u gonna survive there on that kinda money? Everywhere else anesthesiologists are making half a milly. Move out of LA. Leave. Go somewhere else. Dont live like a homeless, u worked too hard to deserve this treatment. It’s honestly shocking that the residency programs even fill, given how ****ty the jobs in that geographic locale are. Like seriously?
 
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Not sure what happened 10 years ago but it isn't really relevant to today. Most hospitals change alot in 10 years

Currently it's heavy robotics, ortho, GI and general surgery. 4-5 packed rooms daily.

Rooms aren't closing but the management changes are recent so it always takes time to stabilize after a big change. It won't take long to recruit at $37 per unit in OC
For sure, change would be good. That's the nice thing about being at rock bottom: you've got no place to go but up.

But where's the change? Reinstalling the old chief? Young, inexperienced surgeons flogging Medicaid patients with the da Vinci just to get their numbers up? A rotating cavalcade of fresh graduates (nurses, techs, and surgeons) testing their wings until they get called up into the big leagues? (And, make no mistake, the new graduates are the good ones. Even worse are the lazy and incompetent staff that are never invited to the big leagues, and end up as lifers.) Asking Allied to save things? And, after they run away screaming, bring in some scabs from Florida?? That is what you are touting as "the best deal in Orange County??"

Two high-volume (Medicaid-heavy) GI rooms keep the hospital afloat, with three other operating rooms running, once of which is the da Vinci slaughterhouse? That leaves you with one decent room (ortho), and one average room (general surgery). The chief takes the ortho room, his next-in-line takes the general room, and the newbies get GI and da Vinci. Fine, you say, high volume GI can be a good day for unit production. Trouble is, half of the GI cases are conscious sedation cases...so you are sitting on your thumbs generating neither units nor revenue. And, if it's GI you want (and I'm open-minded enough to allow that somebody somewhere wants to do those cases), why on earth would you want to do it at a hospital that is going to require you to take call? And, rather frequent call, at that??

Listen, I understand the folks who are giving Placentia Linda the benefit of the doubt. Tiny hospital in a decent part of town with neither OB nor trauma. What's not to like? Plenty, apparently, if the hospital's decade-long inability to recruit and retain anesthesiologists is any indication.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe adding another couple of levels of middle management and non-clinical expertise from the East coast is what they've been lacking all along. If somehow Envision is the answer, of course, it means that things were even worse than we imagined.
 
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