OC/LA Groups (Sanitized Version)

[Twiggidy]

There are other random things too which differ between the coasts, like the fact that in LA, Dunkin Donuts is only in gangster neighborhoods, but in NYC they are everywhere. LOL

This is oddly accurate. lol

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[GassYous]

There's truth here and honestly I suffer from it myself.

That being said, as with more "very desirable" places to live, to find a value home takes some research and patience. You can absolutely find under 2 million in Santa Monica or Venice. Sure it may not be a mansion and maybe you'll need to put some elbow grease into the home, but they're there. Otherwise, as being said, a decent sized condo can be found for under 2 million and you're blocks from the ocean. That life isn't for everyone.

I stand by my theory that the job isn't for the family with the single income bread winner. I imagine it for someone with a spouse that probably has a big time LA job that brings in most of the income or even if it's two people in medicine, the spouse could be a specialist at UCLA with the salary and benefits to cover the family.

The nice thing is that by the time your kids grow up, it'll be oceanfront property!

 

[nimbus]

I think there's something about living in your own place without having to hear your neighbors music blasting through the wall or having them moving furniture above you at 3 in the morning.

That’s why you need to move into a building with a bunch of old folks so you can be the noisy one.

 

[MirrorTodd]

For southern california, that is not a respectable way of life. No, its not normal for physicians in LA to raise their family in an apartment. It’s normal in NYC, but really not as much the case in LA.

There are other random things too which differ between the coasts, like the fact that in LA, Dunkin Donuts is only in gangster neighborhoods, but in NYC they are everywhere. LOL

Thats cause Dunkin is **** compared to the mom and pop donuts littered all over Cali.

 

[nimbus]

Thats cause Dunkin is **** compared to the mom and pop donuts littered all over Cali.

Pink box donuts are the way.

 

[deleted162650]

Pink box donuts are the way.

Is that some lesbian owned donut shop I’m not familiar with?

 

[GassYous]

Is that some lesbian owned donut shop I’m not familiar with?

There is a line of subarus at the drive through

 

[Peterluger]

LOL

 

[Twiggidy]

Is that some lesbian owned donut shop I’m not familiar with?

I'm not sure about the donuts, but don't knock Hamburger Mary's until you try it. I turned into Samuel L Jackson in that place...

 

[anonperson]

So if you’re starting out with no family money you’d need income of $1-1.5mil? My point is that many people all over the world raise kids in apartments. Americans and especially American doctors I think are particularly prone to house fetish.

A lot of the apartments are cheaply built (thin walls, limited sound proofing). Especially in Southern California.

Raising young kids if you live above another tenant is a miserable experience because they will constantly complain of noise etc.

Did that for three years and it sucked. Never again.

 

[Lashler9054]

So if you’re starting out with no family money you’d need income of $1-1.5mil? My point is that many people all over the world raise kids in apartments. Americans and especially American doctors I think are particularly prone to house fetish.

You sound like you don’t have any young children

 

[nimbus]

You sound like you don’t have any young children

My child is grown now so you are correct. I’m also Asian and most people in my native country raise their kids in apartments. They do just fine.

 

[Tony C anesthesia]

Residents live in the area so....

Yes, residents live in the area as well but the question is if you want to live like a resident after residency? If yes, then that's the group to join.

 

[Lashler9054]

My child is grown now so you are correct. I’m also Asian and most people in my native country raise their kids in apartments. They do just fine.

Perhaps. However, I would think it’s a waste to live in an area that has great weather and a lot of space, only to buy a small condo with no outdoor space. Why live in CA then? Might as well live in NYC if you’re going to do that

 

[nimbus]

Perhaps. However, I would think it’s a waste to live in an area that has great weather and a lot of space, only to buy a small condo with no outdoor space. Why live in CA then? Might as well live in NYC if you’re going to do that

You don’t need a big house to enjoy year round running, hiking, golf, cycling, surfing, etc. I lived in NYC for 5 yrs too and enjoyed that lifestyle very much. Also went to college and med school with a lot of people who grew up in NYC. They didn’t seem to regret their upbringing/apartment life. Many of them are still there.

In the end, your preferences are as valid as mine. I like a carefree lifestyle. I personally don’t enjoy home/yard maintenance.

 

[Twiggidy]

I honestly think it's funny how people crap on how expensive California is when somewhere like Hawaii is just as, if not more expensive. I imagine it's because people can envision themselves living in California more than they can Hawaii (ie more realistic) but get disgruntled by the expense. That's just my opinion. Living anywhere wonderful takes sacrificing "something"....unless you're wealthy

 

[chocomorsel]

My child is grown now so you are correct. I’m also Asian and most people in my native country raise their kids in apartments. They do just fine.

Are the apartments over there better built than here? I know it’s a large Continent and I don’t know specifically your home country or heritage but I wonder if they have better insulated material because so many people live like that in the cities.

 

[UnoMas]

Perhaps. However, I would think it’s a waste to live in an area that has great weather and a lot of space, only to buy a small condo with no outdoor space. Why live in CA then? Might as well live in NYC if you’re going to do that

I’d rather ‘slum’ and raise a family in an apartment/condo/townhouse in Irvine than a big mansion in the middle of nowhere America. These areas also have excellent public schools, which eliminate the need to shell out money for private education.

Having access to great food, hiking trails, beaches and good weather is a huge plus. Ideally, you wont need to be inside that much to need an enormous living space and extravagant amenities

There’s plenty of parks and green outdoor space in SoCal for you to enjoy and enjoy it all year round. Cant say the same for NYC.

In addition, with the increasingly hostile attitude against ethnic Americans nowadays, the thought of trying to make money in BFE is becoming more and more intolerable if you are a person of color.

 

[nimbus]

Are the apartments over there better built than here? I know it’s a large Continent and I don’t know specifically your home country or heritage but I wonder if they have better insulated material because so many people live like that in the cities.

Yeah maybe. When I’ve visited relatives and family friends, noise has never been an issue. Same for my aunt n uncle’s high rise in NYC. I rented in a high rise condo for a while in Ca too. It was very quiet except for the parades, festivals, and races that would be going on below on Saturday’s. But my neighbors were old, the building was older with concrete block construction, and there were only 3 units/floor.

 

[chocomorsel]

I’d rather ‘slum’ and raise a family in an apartment/condo/townhouse in Irvine than a big mansion in the middle of nowhere America. These areas also have excellent public schools, which eliminate the need to shell out money for private education.

Having access to great food, hiking trails, beaches and good weather is a huge plus. Ideally, you wont need to be inside that much to need an enormous living space and extravagant amenities

There’s plenty of parks and green outdoor space in SoCal for you to enjoy and enjoy it all year round. Cant say the same for NYC.

In addition, with the increasingly hostile attitude against ethnic Americans nowadays, the thought of trying to make money in BFE is becoming more and more intolerable if you are a person of color.

Ehh, I am ethnic, and travel to small town America everywhere to work. I got plenty of ethnic friends who live in small town America too and we are all doing just fine. No one is coming after us directory although I bet some talk behind our backs all day.
I would let you know if I was having issues. Everyone on here knows that. Maybe you mean the racism Asian Americans which is now becoming more of an issue.
The overt attacks are happening even in the big cities.

 

[Twiggidy]

Ehh, I am ethnic, and travel to small town America everywhere to work. I got plenty of ethnic friends who live in small town America too and we are all doing just fine. No one is coming after us directory although I bet some talk behind our backs all day.
I would let you know if I was having issues. Everyone on here knows that. Maybe you mean the racism Asian Americans which is now becoming more of an issue.
The overt attacks are happening even in the big cities.

I mean you made it well known on here you’re not an outdoors person. I’d agree that if you’re not going to enjoy CA or NYC or Boston etc, there’s no point on paying the premium to live there. I can sit on the couch and watch Netflix in Kansas but I’d personally much rather chill and enjoy a podcast at Santa Monica beach and I don’t mind paying a premium to be able to do that year round

 

[pgg]

So if you’re starting out with no family money you’d need income of $1-1.5mil? My point is that many people all over the world raise kids in apartments. Americans and especially American doctors I think are particularly prone to house fetish.

That's all true but I didn't go to 4 years of evil medical school to be called "apartment dweller"

 

[Lashler9054]

I’d rather ‘slum’ and raise a family in an apartment/condo/townhouse in Irvine than a big mansion in the middle of nowhere America. These areas also have excellent public schools, which eliminate the need to shell out money for private education.

Having access to great food, hiking trails, beaches and good weather is a huge plus. Ideally, you wont need to be inside that much to need an enormous living space and extravagant amenities

There’s plenty of parks and green outdoor space in SoCal for you to enjoy and enjoy it all year round. Cant say the same for NYC.

In addition, with the increasingly hostile attitude against ethnic Americans nowadays, the thought of trying to make money in BFE is becoming more and more intolerable if you are a person of color.

Well, I hope I don’t have to choose between living in a condo in CA vs having a big house in BFE. BFE isn’t even an option for me. Wasn’t insinuating choosing between just those two options. In NYC, I could tolerate living in a condo because everything is so close together. To me, there’s so much more space in CA and it would be a shame to not have some of it. That’s my preference though.

 

[Big Swinging Doc]

Anyone have any updated info on Bayside in Santa Monica? Seems like a longer partnership track but area is IDEAL (for me, at least).

What about Cedars-Sinai? Have heard mixed reviews... But wanted to get an idea of how long the partnership is?

I can't speak to Cedars, but I know a little about Bayside.

The "group" is really a handful of super partners who make money off the junior partners and the stable of 1099 independent contractors. When I interviewed with them before the pandemic, they were offering $175 per hour for SURGERY TIME. (You weren't paid for time between cases; nor for startup units.) They "stipend" you three hours ($525) for taking call on the weekends--plus the same $175/hour for case time.

They expect you'll work for them at least three years as an independent contractor. Then at least two as a junior partner.

I was an unusual applicant because I was really only interested in the 1099 work (as a side gig/in-house locums). Because of that, I was more or less fast-tracked. Without exception, the junior partners I met were friendly and welcoming. They asked me to sit down with their godfather, who came off as a total and complete D-bag. He was clearly threatened that I was the product of better education and training than he was. His entire schtick was to attempt to measure dicks and get me to genuflect before him and kiss his ring. It was clear that he was many years past his prime, and he shocked me with his ignorance of ERAS guidelines, the improvements in ultrasound, the benefits of precedex, and the safety of sugammadex. (To be fair to him, he was similarly shocked at my ignorance of the Santa Monica culinary scene. He on two occasions tried to wow me with the "resis" (short for reservations) he had--"this week alone!"--at eateries that he thought I was supposed to give a rat's ass about. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.) On two different occasions he pimped me with some CA-2 level question, then interrupted me to take a phone call. (I don't think he was even talking to anybody on the phone; he was using his desk phone as a prop to make himself appear important.)

When the subject of hourly wage came up, he was simultaneously aware that the offer was insulting and attempting to act like it was a generous sum to be paying to trainees who are still testing themselves. When I mentioned that the hourly rate was even worse than Kaiser's hourly rate (which eventually will lead to a vested pension), he countered quickly that "our homes are our pensions. I've made more living in my own home than I'll ever make passing gas."

I decided against them. Truth be told, I went as far as filling out their application for hospital privileges. When they expected me to pay the $900 application fee (for the right to work for $175 an operating hour), I figured that it wasn't worth it.

They seem to have a single draw: living in Santa Monica. And, to some degree, it kind of works for them. Yes, they are always running ads. But, on the other hand, the senior partners don't seem to be working very hard. And they seem to have kept a handful of mommy-track junior partners on board.

On the bright side, though they are only paying CRNA wages. hey are still offering jobs to physicians. So, in a way, that's better than predatory groups that are giving away doctors' jobs to nurses. And, it doesn't seem like Somnia or Envision is threatening their exclusive contract.

I would be very surprised to hear that anybody on SDN would find the job attractive. Their target market is somebody who doesn't really need the money, but isn't yet ready to retire.

Oh, and they use Epic. Blech.

 

[GassYous]

I like epic. But if some punk tried to pimp me in an interview I'm out homes.

 

[deleted697127]

I like epic. But if some punk tried to pimp me in an interview I'm out homes.

In all fairness, sounds like the interviewer struck out with conversations about homes and the food scene. I doubt the interviewer walked away sad about his inferior training.

 

[throwawaythesevo]

In all fairness, sounds like the interviewer struck out with conversations about homes and the food scene. I doubt the interviewer walked away sad about his inferior training.

That's why it would drive me crazy going to these practices. Your boss is an old man who can't do some of the most basic "new" techniques in anesthesia but collects off your back, does not contribute much and is lazy. I'm talking about any sort of block with ultrasound, use a DLT without the clamps, understand the role of ketamine or methadone etc. I hate watching friends slave away at a "partnership" while the old man eats and tells them to induce his cases for him. There was a group where one of the senior partners put his name on charts for his room every day but it was understood that induction should be split up amongst the Jr guys so that his 4 rooms are covered. Some days he would grace the group by showing up to see his patients in preop then have breakfast before splitting. Other days you just had to assume he was in the hospital (CRNAs had his password to attest the notes). Rumor is there was a span of a few months where he hadn't put on scrubs. Obviously something like this would never fly nowadays but it sure is close to realistic.

 

[abolt18]

That's why it would drive me crazy going to these practices. Your boss is an old man who can't do some of the most basic "new" techniques in anesthesia but collects off your back, does not contribute much and is lazy. I'm talking about any sort of block with ultrasound, use a DLT without the clamps, understand the role of ketamine or methadone etc. I hate watching friends slave away at a "partnership" while the old man eats and tells them to induce his cases for him. There was a group where one of the senior partners put his name on charts for his room every day but it was understood that induction should be split up amongst the Jr guys so that his 4 rooms are covered. Some days he would grace the group by showing up to see his patients in preop then have breakfast before splitting. Other days you just had to assume he was in the hospital (CRNAs had his password to attest the notes). Rumor is there was a span of a few months where he hadn't put on scrubs. Obviously something like this would never fly nowadays but it sure is close to realistic.

Using a DLT without clamps? Who does this?

 

[DrOwnage]

Using a DLT without clamps? Who does this?

A good amount of people. The only point of the splitter is the ability to ventilate both lungs, which arguably you only need at the beginning and end of the case.

 

[abolt18]

A good amount of people. The only point of the splitter is the ability to ventilate both lungs, which arguably you only need at the beginning and end of the case.

So are you putting on and taking off the splitter through the case? If the patient's lungs suck and you need to ventilate in the middle of the case on both lungs.

Seems like more work than just using the splitter/clamp. Especially when your patient is in lateral position and arms are sometimes in the way.

 

[DrOwnage]

So are you putting on and taking off the splitter through the case? If the patient's lungs suck and you need to ventilate in the middle of the case on both lungs.

Seems like more work than just using the splitter/clamp. Especially when your patient is in lateral position and arms are sometimes in the way.

Sure I mean obviously do what you're comfortable with. But with the normal VATs/Thoracotomy case you're not going to be ventilating both lungs unless its basically an emergency. This might occur more frequently during a transplant when the persons lungs are already garbage. But you should try it. It's not an unsafe practice. I know multiple specialized thoracic anesthesiologists who do this.

 

[ucladoc2b]

Sure I mean obviously do what you're comfortable with. But with the normal VATs/Thoracotomy case you're not going to be ventilating both lungs unless its basically an emergency. This might occur more frequently during a transplant when the persons lungs are already garbage. But you should try it. It's not an unsafe practice. I know multiple specialized thoracic anesthesiologists who do this.

I’ve done both. I don’t know if there is a benefit/drawback to either method. Sometimes our surgeons like to do a test reinflation before final reinflation, so we have to reconnect the splitter. That’s really it.

 

[nimbus]

So are you putting on and taking off the splitter through the case? If the patient's lungs suck and you need to ventilate in the middle of the case on both lungs.

Seems like more work than just using the splitter/clamp. Especially when your patient is in lateral position and arms are sometimes in the way.

Yeah I don’t see the point. Just adds unnecessary steps disconnecting and connecting.

 

[Arch Guillotti]

use a DLT without the clamps

Uh, what?

 

[abolt18]

Sure I mean obviously do what you're comfortable with. But with the normal VATs/Thoracotomy case you're not going to be ventilating both lungs unless its basically an emergency. This might occur more frequently during a transplant when the persons lungs are already garbage. But you should try it. It's not an unsafe practice. I know multiple specialized thoracic anesthesiologists who do this.

Doesn't sound unsafe, just sounds like potential for more work. So do you only use the splitter at the end when bringing up the down lung?

As soon as you intubate, do you just immediately and preferentially only ventilate the non-operative lung and forego the splitter?

 

[deleted162650]

What are you using to connect the circuit to the one lumen of the DLT?

 

[DrOwnage]

What are you using to connect the circuit to the one lumen of the DLT?

You just attach the circuit to the connector of the lung of your choice, then the surgical lung deflates. Its usually less work.

 

[nimbus]

That's all true but I didn't go to 4 years of evil medical school to be called "apartment dweller"

Then you surely wouldn’t like European city life

This guy’s situation is a little tighter than the typical American 3 car garage at the end of a long driveway. It’s funny how he has to move the bike to park his car and move the chairs to open the door. I imagine his carbon footprint is very low. I wonder if he feels deprived or content.

 

[Peterluger]

I can't speak to Cedars, but I know a little about Bayside.

The "group" is really a handful of super partners who make money off the junior partners and the stable of 1099 independent contractors. When I interviewed with them before the pandemic, they were offering $175 per hour for SURGERY TIME. (You weren't paid for time between cases; nor for startup units.) They "stipend" you three hours ($525) for taking call on the weekends--plus the same $175/hour for case time.

They expect you'll work for them at least three years as an independent contractor. Then at least two as a junior partner.

I was an unusual applicant because I was really only interested in the 1099 work (as a side gig/in-house locums). Because of that, I was more or less fast-tracked. Without exception, the junior partners I met were friendly and welcoming. They asked me to sit down with their godfather, who came off as a total and complete D-bag. He was clearly threatened that I was the product of better education and training than he was. His entire schtick was to attempt to measure dicks and get me to genuflect before him and kiss his ring. It was clear that he was many years past his prime, and he shocked me with his ignorance of ERAS guidelines, the improvements in ultrasound, the benefits of precedex, and the safety of sugammadex. (To be fair to him, he was similarly shocked at my ignorance of the Santa Monica culinary scene. He on two occasions tried to wow me with the "resis" (short for reservations) he had--"this week alone!"--at eateries that he thought I was supposed to give a rat's ass about. Different strokes for different folks, I guess.) On two different occasions he pimped me with some CA-2 level question, then interrupted me to take a phone call. (I don't think he was even talking to anybody on the phone; he was using his desk phone as a prop to make himself appear important.)

When the subject of hourly wage came up, he was simultaneously aware that the offer was insulting and attempting to act like it was a generous sum to be paying to trainees who are still testing themselves. When I mentioned that the hourly rate was even worse than Kaiser's hourly rate (which eventually will lead to a vested pension), he countered quickly that "our homes are our pensions. I've made more living in my own home than I'll ever make passing gas."

I decided against them. Truth be told, I went as far as filling out their application for hospital privileges. When they expected me to pay the $900 application fee (for the right to work for $175 an operating hour), I figured that it wasn't worth it.

They seem to have a single draw: living in Santa Monica. And, to some degree, it kind of works for them. Yes, they are always running ads. But, on the other hand, the senior partners don't seem to be working very hard. And they seem to have kept a handful of mommy-track junior partners on board.

On the bright side, though they are only paying CRNA wages. hey are still offering jobs to physicians. So, in a way, that's better than predatory groups that are giving away doctors' jobs to nurses. And, it doesn't seem like Somnia or Envision is threatening their exclusive contract.

I would be very surprised to hear that anybody on SDN would find the job attractive. Their target market is somebody who doesn't really need the money, but isn't yet ready to retire.

Oh, and they use Epic. Blech.

LOL his home is his pension? Is he planning on selling the house and living in one of those shantytowns in venice beach?

 

[nimbus]

LOL his home is his pension? Is he planning on selling the house and living in one of those shantytowns in venice beach?

An honest older doc in Santa Monica could easily be in a $5-10mil house with no mortgage. That guy could be sitting on much more if he’s been exploiting younger doctors for decades.

 

[Peterluger]

An honest older doc in Santa Monica could easily be in a $5-10mil house with no mortgage. That guy could be sitting on much more if he’s been exploiting younger doctors for decades.

Yeah but why does it matter? Would he sell the $5 million dollar house and move into a $2 million shack? I guess it only matters if they sell and move into a low cost of living area

 

[nimbus]

Yeah but why does it matter? Would he sell the $5 million dollar house and move into a $2 million shack? I guess it only matters if they sell and move into a low cost of living area

He could Airbnb it 1 weekend per month and live off that. He could move to Sun Valley, Idaho like a surgeon I know. Or he could “downsize” into a nice $2mil house in Orange County. Lots of ways to leverage a valuable house.

 

[chocomorsel]

He could Airbnb it 1 weekend per month and live off that.

Air B and B while living there. Hmm. I wouldn’t
be comfortable with that. What do you do w all your personal stuff?
Have a private locked room I guess.

 

[Peterluger]

He could Airbnb it 1 weekend per month and live off that. He could move to Sun Valley, Idaho like a surgeon I know. Or he could “downsize” into a nice $2mil house in Orange County. Lots of ways to leverage a valuable house.

Aint no nice house in OC for $2 mil

 

[nimbus]

Aint no nice house in OC for $2 mil

Really? My experience is different than yours. Maybe you have high standards.

 

[Tony C anesthesia]

He could Airbnb it 1 weekend per month and live off that. He could move to Sun Valley, Idaho like a surgeon I know. Or he could “downsize” into a nice $2mil house in Orange County. Lots of ways to leverage a valuable house.

Why would he do that as long as young idiots working for him at CRNA salary?

 

[Peterluger]

Really? My experience is different than yours. Maybe you have high standards.

OC on average is more expensive than LA

 

[nimbus]

OC on average is more expensive than LA

But not West LA/Santa Monica/Brentwood which is some of the most expensive real estate in the world. If you own a house in the area, it’s not unreasonable to consider it part of your retirement plan.

 

[nimbus]

Why would he do that as long as young idiots working for him at CRNA salary?

Yeah he’s sitting pretty. I’m not worried for his retirement.

 

[Peterluger]

Fair enough