OC/LA Groups (Sanitized Version)

[chocomorsel]

Do you seriously expect people to broadcast their income on a public forum? Would you?

Nope. Just what they offer the associates. On the private forum maybe?

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[dchz]

I'm reminded of one of the speakers at our med school graduation, who said something to the effect of "Half of what we taught you these last four years is wrong. Problem is, we don't know which half."

Rather than report that there are errors in the original post, why not correct them?

I thank throwaythesevo for taking time to publish his impressions. I would like to hear from partners inside these premier groups to hear where exactly throwaway misspoke. Insiders should have zero compunction about providing the real numbers in their recruiting pitch if they are, indeed, proud of those numbers. All this tiptoeing around the numbers makes me think even (maybe especially) the partners know the numbers ain't all that great.

No one is gonna publicize what they are making.

I have refrained from talking about all these groups because 1). My knowledge is superficial, I know what I don't know (not the case for @throwawaythesevo ) 2). There are way more knowledgeable people that work for these groups on this forum that have been great resources for me during my job search. I felt anything I misquote might be disrespectful to them.

However, I am confident in several things:
-ASMG is a very fair group to work for in SD. I would highly recommend looking into them if you want to be in SD.
-Allied in OC is a joke. Absolute joke and it was a waste of my time talking to them if not for the entertainment value.
-Rumors are a waste of time. But if you simply do some math with respect to what @nimbus roughly estimated above, you'll see he's actually quite credible.

 

[noclaw]

Do you seriously expect people to broadcast their income on a public forum? Would you?

I wasn't suggesting that the group should publish how much money partners are making, not that anybody would believe a posting on an internet forum, anyway. But, yes, if I were actively recruiting, I would lead with reimbursement/salary...especially if I'm proud of the rate and think it's competitive. The fact that they won't come straight out and lead with salary raises a red flag (to me). I credit throwawaythesevo for respecting these groups enough not to publish the figures, since it is clear that everybody involved finds the figures to be embarrassingly low.

Elsewhere we can read that Kaiser pays per diems $150/hour. (Somebody said that they bumped the rate during Covid, but I haven't seen any confirmation.) Envision pays locums $180-200/hour (but, sadly, it's Envision!) (Their ambassadors/associates are on a much more opaque hybrid of guarantees/call stipend plus modest unit rate.) Somnia is presently running an ad for IN-HOUSE OB in Long Beach for $100/hour. (You read that correctly: $2400 dollars for 24 in-house hours.)

The going blended unit rate in Orange County--among outfits that publish their blended unit value--appears to be $28-30/unit. (And these are four-unit hours.) I heard about one paying $34. SaltyDog is on record as saying that $34 was dog poop three years ago, so we are to assume his group does better than that. I don't know where he works, but he claims to know that plenty in the original post is "outright false." I enjoy SaltyDog's contributions to the forum; I just wish that rather than asking his followers to speculate which details are outright false, he'd provide us with the gospel truth himself.

If an outfit won't tell you what the reimbursement is, you should be genuinely concerned that it is WORSE than the figures above.

 

[thinkorswim]

I wasn't suggesting that the group should publish how much money partners are making, not that anybody would believe a posting on an internet forum, anyway. But, yes, if I were actively recruiting, I would lead with reimbursement/salary...especially if I'm proud of the rate and think it's competitive. The fact that they won't come straight out and lead with salary raises a red flag (to me). I credit throwawaythesevo for respecting these groups enough not to publish the figures, since it is clear that everybody involved finds the figures to be embarrassingly low.

Please quit the gaslighting.

How do you know these groups don’t disclose their unit value or hourly salary to potential hires? Have you thought that they may have confidentiality terms to disclosing rates and stipends publicly? Have you even interviewed at any of these places or is this all conjecture?

I know that my group will come right out and tell applicants our unit value and the average number of units per person. You’ll also get information regarding overhead and other deductions. Ask a little more and you’ll get peppered with bar charts and standard deviations.

 

[kidthor]

The going blended unit rate in Orange County--among outfits that publish their blended unit value--appears to be $28-30/unit.

That’s about the blended unit rate in LA too.

 

[Peterluger]

That’s about the blended unit rate in LA too.

Might as well work at taco bell, and be promoted to manager. Free dorito shell tacos.

 

[deleted162650]

4 unit hours...ouch.

Hours are always 4 units.

Unless they're meaning that you don't get any start-up units, in which case that is certainly a special kind of awful.

 

[deleted162650]

if I were actively recruiting, I would lead with reimbursement/salary...especially if I'm proud of the rate and think it's competitive.

Well that's just the thing isn't it - no one here is actively recruiting. This was never a help wanted ad. I'm not sure why you (a stranger on the internet) feels entitled to know details about my or any other group's financials or details about our employment contract. If you're generally curious about a particular group, submit a CV, and come for an interview. We're not out to mislead anyone. We're very open with those we interview, and those we offer positions to. We don't need to, nor do we want to openly advertise online.

among outfits that publish their blended unit value--appears to be $28-30/unit.

Who in the hell publishes their blended unit info?? I'm not aware of any private group that does that.

SaltyDog is on record as saying that $34 was dog poop three years ago, so we are to assume his group does better than that. I don't know where he works, but he claims to know that plenty in the original post is "outright false." I enjoy SaltyDog's contributions to the forum; I just wish that rather than asking his followers to speculate which details are outright false, he'd provide us with the gospel truth himself.

$34 is dog poop.

I can't correct specific info without revealing what group I'm in. Maintaining some degree of anonymity on an open forum is important for what should be obvious reasons. If you want to know specifics, then send us a CV and hope we're interviewing. There are multiple inaccuracies in that post however pertaining to more than one group. The only group he nailed was Allied. Although most people think he was talking about Mos Eisley, Old Ben Kenobi was actually telling Luke about Allied when he said "You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy."

 

[deleted162650]

Some places do 5 units an hour.

That may be how they choose to pay themselves, but it’s always billed at 4 units per hour plus start-up. After 4 or 4.5 hours (can’t remember which) you start billing at 6 units per hour.

 

[circleK]

Who knows anything about ACCMG out of San Diego?

 

[deleted162650]

Who knows anything about ACCMG out of San Diego?

I’ve only heard not so great things. If you want PP in SD, ASMG is the way.

 

[DrOwnage]

I work for ACCMG and can answer questions if you want to PM me.

 

[okayplayer]

Awkward...

 

[deleted162650]

Awkward...

I would actually love it if I was wrong. We need more good practices in SoCal.

 

[Shimmy8]

The throwaway account dbag sounds like someone I would NOT want to work with. Maybe those "phone calls" that got you your "in" really were more warnings to potential employers about arrogance and lack of awareness than resounding recommendations, so you got lowball crap offers hoping you'd just hang up or decline.

 

[DrOwnage]

I would actually love it if I was wrong. We need more good practices in SoCal.

It's fine I know a bunch of people at ASMG and know everything about the workings of the group including all said earnings. There are pluses and minuses to everything. I'm happy with where I am at the moment. I've also had the opportunity to work a lot during COVID when most other places were having people take 2-3 days off a week.

 

[deleted162650]

I'm happy with where I am at the moment.

I am honestly glad to hear it. Next time someone asks me about ACCMG, I will refer them to you.

 

[dchz]

Please quit the gaslighting.

How do you know these groups don’t disclose their unit value or hourly salary to potential hires? Have you thought that they may have confidentiality terms to disclosing rates and stipends publicly? Have you even interviewed at any of these places or is this all conjecture?

I know that my group will come right out and tell applicants our unit value and the average number of units per person. You’ll also get information regarding overhead and other deductions. Ask a little more and you’ll get peppered with bar charts and standard deviations.

Can confirm. I asked. The group was super transparent.

 

[noclaw]

Like Salty, I'm happy to hear ACCMG has improved.

After a surprise AMC takeover in my home 'hood, I interviewed with ACCMG before an anticipated move farther South. The hospital was beautiful and the group's secretary couldn't have been more helpful, friendly, and inviting. The "junior partners" I met were all certainly presentable (though uniformly unimpressive) and proved their ability to "stick to the script," with the exception of one honest (and impressive) guy I met only in passing who shared a couple of uncomfortable truths (nothing necessarily disqualifying, but certainly the kind of "risks" that should be mentioned in an informed consent). After a carefully choreographed tour of select group members, I finished the day in the room of the president himself, who simply could not have been more dismissive and off-putting--though I am sure he thought he was simply trying to display "leadership" and "gravitas." He made it abundantly clear that it was HIS group and the doctors that HE hired were to follow HIS procedures and do as HE commanded. (And, hey, I get it. He is the one who has to take meetings about outliers, so he's just trying to minimize his future headaches.)

I chalked it up to his preference for hiring new graduates. Fine. That's a tried and true method of forming a group with a certain sort of homogeneity. But then why did they express such interest in me, when I had been out of training for 20 years?

When I asked the secretary (who was GREAT!) if my impression of the chief's strategy was accurate, she corrected me, by highlighting the "wealth of experience" of the most recent hires, a couple of whom I had met and realized that the common thread was this: The chief wanted mommy-track/foreigners/FMGs/below average DOs/desperate hires who would do as they are told.

I would be interested to find out if the straight shooter stuck around very long.

Anyway, this more than a couple of years ago. The chief was not, himself, a young guy, so he may have even retired already. Don't put too much emphasis on my impression...unless you find it favorable. More and more I am finding that anesthesiologists are happy to work at the level of CRNA: doing as they are told; deferring to protocols and policy manuals; following recipes. And, that's fine. If that's you goal, you will be happy at ACCMG and ACCMG will be happy to have you. (And no /s is necessary, because I am being genuine, not sarcastic.)

 

[Twiggidy]

Like Salty, I'm happy to hear ACCMG has improved.

After a surprise AMC takeover in my home 'hood, I interviewed with ACCMG before an anticipated move farther South. The hospital was beautiful and the group's secretary couldn't have been more helpful, friendly, and inviting. The "junior partners" I met were all certainly presentable (though uniformly unimpressive) and proved their ability to "stick to the script," with the exception of one honest (and impressive) guy I met only in passing who shared a couple of uncomfortable truths (nothing necessarily disqualifying, but certainly the kind of "risks" that should be mentioned in an informed consent). After a carefully choreographed tour of select group members, I finished the day in the room of the president himself, who simply could not have been more dismissive and off-putting--though I am sure he thought he was simply trying to display "leadership" and "gravitas." He made it abundantly clear that it was HIS group and the doctors that HE hired were to follow HIS procedures and do as HE commanded. (And, hey, I get it. He is the one who has to take meetings about outliers, so he's just trying to minimize his future headaches.)

I chalked it up to his preference for hiring new graduates. Fine. That's a tried and true method of forming a group with a certain sort of homogeneity. But then why did they express such interest in me, when I had been out of training for 20 years?

When I asked the secretary (who was GREAT!) if my impression of the chief's strategy was accurate, she corrected me, by highlighting the "wealth of experience" of the most recent hires, a couple of whom I had met and realized that the common thread was this: The chief wanted mommy-track/foreigners/FMGs/below average DOs/desperate hires who would do as they are told.

I would be interested to find out if the straight shooter stuck around very long.

Anyway, this more than a couple of years ago. The chief was not, himself, a young guy, so he may have even retired already. Don't put too much emphasis on my impression...unless you find it favorable. More and more I am finding that anesthesiologists are happy to work at the level of CRNA: doing as they are told; deferring to protocols and policy manuals; following recipes. And, that's fine. If that's you goal, you will be happy at ACCMG and ACCMG will be happy to have you. (And no /s is necessary, because I am being genuine, not sarcastic.)

To play devil’s advocate. Anyone who goes into a new job as “new guy” , no matter how long you’ve been practicing, should color within the lines for a while until trust and comfort is established and then when people know you’re not a psychopath, that’s when you start to freelance a bit, especially when you get into subspecialty cases. Surgeons are comfortable when they know what to expect from the anesthetic for their cases and if some new person comes in off the rails they’ll ask that person not to cover their cases or they may even decide to leave a hospital. It’s part of the game. I understand WE all know what we’re doing, but they don’t know we all know what we’re doing even if we have to trust that they know what they’re doing.

 

[chocomorsel]

To play devil’s advocate. Anyone who goes into a new job as “new guy” , no matter how long you’ve been practicing, should color within the lines for a while until trust and comfort is established and then when people know you’re not a psychopath, that’s when you start to freelance a bit, especially when you get into subspecialty cases. Surgeons are comfortable when they know what to expect from the anesthetic for their cases and if some new person comes in off the rails they’ll ask that person not to cover their cases or they may even decide to leave a hospital. It’s part of the game. I understand WE all know what we’re doing, but they don’t know we all know what we’re doing even if we have to trust that they know what they’re doing.

I see what you are saying. What I have noticed though since I became an Intensivist is that this is not necessarily the game you have to play outside of the OR. I literally walk into any ICU I have temporarily staffed, the nurses come at me with questions, I give them an answer and s hit gets done. Cardiologists call me into the Cath lab and ask my opinion and they have never met me. I call a nephrologist ask their opinion and they tell me ABC and let me know I can put in a line when I am able so as to start dialysis. Very little push back, no walking on eggshells. I am beginning to think that this whole thing is just an anesthesiologist-gotta-please-the- surgeons-as-they-bring-me-the-bacon-to-fry phenomenon. Do other specialties go through this BS? How about the fact that I finished medical school and residency, and have experience instead of me having to prove to you that I am competent?
I am over the BS. Why do surgeons feel the need for us to prove ourselves to them and why do we feel the need to prove ourselves to surgeons so that they could trust us? WTF? This whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

 

[Twiggidy]

I see what you are saying. What I have noticed though since I became an Intensivist is that this is not necessarily the game you have to play outside of the OR. I literally walk into any ICU I have temporarily staffed, the nurses come at me with questions, I give them an answer and s hit gets done. Cardiologists call me into the Cath lab and ask my opinion and they have never met me. I call a nephrologist ask their opinion and they tell me ABC and let me know I can put in a line when I am able so as to start dialysis. Very little push back, no walking on eggshells. I am beginning to think that this whole thing is just an anesthesiologist-gotta-please-the- surgeons-as-they-bring-me-the-bacon-to-fry phenomenon. Do other specialties go through this BS? How about the fact that I finished medical school and residency, and have experience instead of me having to prove to you that I am competent?
I am over the BS. Why do surgeons feel the need for us to prove ourselves to them and why do we feel the need to prove ourselves to surgeons so that they could trust us? WTF? This whole thing leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

The simple answer is because there are a lot of people who finish that CA3 year and even an extra fellowship year and THINK they know what they're doing. Sadly that is the environment we work in where the surgeons bring the business and if they're happy they keep bringing it. No one on here is saying sacrifice patient care to keep your bank account full, whereas what I'm saying is being "affable" is important. It's important to the surgeon who may be comfortable with the way a certain anesthetic is done by the people they have worked with for years, and quite frankly comfortable surgeons are better surgeons. It also means being affable with your practice partners who have work long to establish a standard that keeps their business and not rocking the boat.

This is not the field for egos and I recommend to anyone that comes into this field, especially in private practice to PICK YOUR BATTLES. It's not worth losing out on a lucrative practice opportunity just because you want a central line or feel like you need a second IV. If someone needs their ego stroked or can't take the heat, then yeah, run off to the pain clinic or the ICU.

Unfortunately most need to realize we aren't the Al Pacino or Robert DeNiro of this movie. We're Val Kilmer and some of ya'll are Tom Sizemore lol

 

[deleted162650]

Unfortunately most need to realize we aren't the Al Pacino or Robert DeNiro of this movie. We're Val Kilmer and some of ya'll are Tom Sizemore lol

One of my all-time favorite films.

But what if I’m more of an Ashley Judd?

 

[chocomorsel]

The simple answer is because there are a lot of people who finish that CA3 year and even an extra fellowship year and THINK they know what they're doing. Sadly that is the environment we work in where the surgeons bring the business and if they're happy they keep bringing it. No one on here is saying sacrifice patient care to keep your bank account full, whereas what I'm saying is being "affable" is important. It's important to the surgeon who may be comfortable with the way a certain anesthetic is done by the people they have worked with for years, and quite frankly comfortable surgeons are better surgeons. It also means being affable with your practice partners who have work long to establish a standard that keeps their business and not rocking the boat.

This is not the field for egos and I recommend to anyone that comes into this field, especially in private practice to PICK YOUR BATTLES. It's not worth losing out on a lucrative practice opportunity just because you want a central line or feel like you need a second IV. If someone needs their ego stroked or can't take the heat, then yeah, run off to the pain clinic or the ICU.

Unfortunately most need to realize we aren't the Al Pacino or Robert DeNiro of this movie. We're Val Kilmer and some of ya'll are Tom Sizemore lol

So just because I pose the question of why plenty of anesthesiologists in the US have to audition for the surgeons like circus monkeys means that we who want to be treated with a modicum of respect from day one have "egos that need to be stroked?" Let's keep auditioning like monkeys in order to "keep those bank accounts full."
Haha, I love it. Yeah, let me stay my egotistical behind in the ICU then.
@Newtwo, @woopedazz and any more international people, please let us know that it is different outside of this country where people sell any inkling of self respect for some damn money. This s hit right here takes the cake. I don't know how many times I have seen anesthesiologists get disrespected by surgeons and just sit there and take that **** because we need to keep our accounts full. Been there, done that and done with that crap.
SMH

 

[Tony C anesthesia]

Any recent updates on Valley Presbyterian Hospital? Seems they have very high turn over?!

 

[thinkorswim]

So just because I pose the question of why plenty of anesthesiologists in the US have to audition for the surgeons like circus monkeys means that we who want to be treated with a modicum of respect from day one have "egos that need to be stroked?" Let's keep auditioning like monkeys in order to "keep those bank accounts full."
Haha, I love it. Yeah, let me stay my egotistical behind in the ICU then.
@Newtwo, @woopedazz and any more international people, please let us know that it is different outside of this country where people sell any inkling of self respect for some damn money. This s hit right here takes the cake. I don't know how many times I have seen anesthesiologists get disrespected by surgeons and just sit there and take that **** because we need to keep our accounts full. Been there, done that and done with that crap.
SMH

I feel like you didn’t even read his post. That’s not at all what he was trying to say. Not exactly sure where you got “auditioning like circus monkeys” from that, but try reading it again.

To be honest, you seem to have a some sort of chip on your shoulder that makes you come across as very combative to many posters here. There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum and you’re just wasting your time and energy arguing for no good reason. You may not agree with everyone (few of us do), but it would benefit you to at least try and understand their point of view. I’m sure this approach will also help your everyday practice and interaction with colleagues going forward.

 

[Twiggidy]

So just because I pose the question of why plenty of anesthesiologists in the US have to audition for the surgeons like circus monkeys means that we who want to be treated with a modicum of respect from day one have "egos that need to be stroked?" Let's keep auditioning like monkeys in order to "keep those bank accounts full."
Haha, I love it. Yeah, let me stay my egotistical behind in the ICU then.
@Newtwo, @woopedazz and any more international people, please let us know that it is different outside of this country where people sell any inkling of self respect for some damn money. This s hit right here takes the cake. I don't know how many times I have seen anesthesiologists get disrespected by surgeons and just sit there and take that **** because we need to keep our accounts full. Been there, done that and done with that crap.
SMH

I feel bad for whatever past OR experience you've had and how effected your outlook on the field. My response is simply for those coming up through residency and entering practice who want to know more about how to navigate this field successfully. There are definitely jerk surgeons out there but it's not breaking news to know that you need a bit of thick skin to be a practicing anesthesiologist. If someone finds a practice where the surgeons and anesthesiologists all sing songs in circles together then more power to them. Most places will have a majority of surgeons who are great to work with and a handful that just suck as people, and I'm sorry, if you want those 70-100 unit days sometimes you have to learn how to navigate the jerks. It's something that isn't taught in residency and if so it's taught in passing. It's not a United States thing, a gender thing, nor a race thing as I know many a female anesthesiologist who is tough as nails (My Mentor in residency being one of them) wont take any crap. There's a time to just say "whatever" and go about your business and a time to "jab back". Honestly, the majority of the time "whatever" works just fine for me but I will check a MF if needed, but seriously, it's mostly not needed. And trust me, I work with at least 1 or 2 Class A jerks.

 

[chocomorsel]

I feel like you didn’t even read his post. That’s not at all what he was trying to say. Not exactly sure where you got “auditioning like circus monkeys” from that, but try reading it again.

To be honest, you seem to have a some sort of chip on your shoulder that makes you come across as very combative to many posters here. There is a wealth of knowledge on this forum and you’re just wasting your time and energy arguing for no good reason. You may not agree with everyone (few of us do), but it would benefit you to at least try and understand their point of view. I’m sure this approach will also help your everyday practice and interaction with colleagues going forward.

Thank you so much for figuring out my life Dr. Freud. I have been so so lost without your wisdom.
And yeah, I am a Black Female physician in a White male dominated speciality. My White girlfriends go through drama as well even though they don't advertise it. I am the one on here who screams from the rooftops and say s hit people don't want to hear because they want to keep pretending it isn't happening and that I must be the one with the problem.

But I will be sure to call you up next time I run into some issues. Please wait by your phone.

 

[chocomorsel]

I feel bad for whatever past OR experience you've had and how effected your outlook on the field. My response is simply for those coming up through residency and entering practice who want to know more about how to navigate this field successfully. There are definitely jerk surgeons out there but it's not breaking news to know that you need a bit of thick skin to be a practicing anesthesiologist. If someone finds a practice where the surgeons and anesthesiologists all sing songs in circles together then more power to them. Most places will have a majority of surgeons who are great to work with and a handful that just suck as people, and I'm sorry, if you want those 70-100 unit days sometimes you have to learn how to navigate the jerks. It's something that isn't taught in residency and if so it's taught in passing. It's not a United States thing, a gender thing, nor a race thing as I know many a female anesthesiologist who is tough as nails (My Mentor in residency being one of them) wont take any crap. There's a time to just say "whatever" and go about your business and a time to "jab back". Honestly, the majority of the time "whatever" works just fine for me but I will check a MF if needed, but seriously, it's mostly not needed. And trust me, I work with at least 1 or 2 Class A jerks.

Thanks for the condolences. Yeah, have had my fair share of jerk surgeons in the past and I am glad I don't have to deal with that nonsense much in the ICU. One of the reasons I hate being in the CT ICU is because of the surgeons. They are such a joy and oh so lovely. Unfortunately one of the only two nice CT surgeons I have ever know died in a MCC. He was European so maybe that means something, or not.
I do find if funny for a man to tell a woman in a mostly male dominated field that it's not a sex thing because I know one mentor who was tough as nails. Well the reality is, when women push back we are often labeled as "aggressive, combative, bitchy". Honey that is just the reality we live in and please don't tell us that we don't get treated any differently because we don't have a Y chromosome. The reality is, we often do get treated differently and more poorer than our male counterparts. And to add to the fact, yeah I am black just like you so double whammy, although I have often said I think my gender plays more a role than my race.
So yeah, I am glad to be finally getting my "ego stroked" in the ICU. Never mind the simple fact that I just want to be treated decently and not jockeying for equality.
TBF, I honestly did not know what I was signing up for when I went for anesthesia. Hind sight.
And yeah, I know I am the unpopular opinion on here often times, but guess what? Can't stop, won't stop.

 

[Twiggidy]

Thanks for the condolences. Yeah, have had my fair share of jerk surgeons in the past and I am glad I don't have to deal with that nonsense much in the ICU. One of the reasons I hate being in the CT ICU is because of the surgeons. They are such a joy and oh so lovely. Unfortunately one of the only two nice CT surgeons I have ever know died in a MCC. He was European so maybe that means something, or not.
I do find if funny for a man to tell a woman in a mostly male dominated field that it's not a sex thing because I know one mentor who was tough as nails. Well the reality is, when women push back we are often labeled as "aggressive, combative, bitchy". Honey that is just the reality we live in and please don't tell us that we don't get treated any differently because we don't have a Y chromosome. The reality is, we often do get treated differently and more poorer than our male counterparts. And to add to the fact, yeah I am black just like you so double whammy, although I have often said I think my gender plays more a role than my race.
So yeah, I am glad to be finally getting my "ego stroked" in the ICU. Never mind the simple fact that I just want to be treated decently and not jockeying for equality.
TBF, I honestly did not know what I was signing up for when I went for anesthesia. Hind sight.
And yeah, I know I am the unpopular opinion on here often times, but guess what? Can't stop, won't stop.

Just getting back on thread topic. I emphasize to any new grad or someone looking for a job in Cal to "play the game" because it's a competitive market not just for anesthesiologists but also for anesthesia groups and it doesn't take much for a hospital to start calling around to looking for new coverage because people in the OR can't find a way to play well together. It's not for everyone. While I don't support what was said about the chief above only wanting FMGs/DOs/desperate MDs because they'll do what he says, in an area where you can throw a rock down the street and hit a group looking to take over a hospital contract, much like Chris Rock says, "I understand".'

As you say, hind sight is 20/20, and maybe i would do something different if it were Match Day all over again, but on the real, I make just as much money if not more as some of these other specialists (even surgical specialist), except when I walk out of the hospital I no longer have to think about work.

 

[deleted697535]

So just because I pose the question of why plenty of anesthesiologists in the US have to audition for the surgeons like circus monkeys means that we who want to be treated with a modicum of respect from day one have "egos that need to be stroked?" Let's keep auditioning like monkeys in order to "keep those bank accounts full."
Haha, I love it. Yeah, let me stay my egotistical behind in the ICU then.
@Newtwo, @woopedazz and any more international people, please let us know that it is different outside of this country where people sell any inkling of self respect for some damn money. This s hit right here takes the cake. I don't know how many times I have seen anesthesiologists get disrespected by surgeons and just sit there and take that **** because we need to keep our accounts full. Been there, done that and done with that crap.
SMH

Well i do see colleagues that sweeten up to the surgeons quite a bit but overall it doesn't seem to be too common.

Ive bn lucky to work where there is a lot of mutual respect. Plus we make enough that it doesnt hugely matter. Our depts are totally separate... A surgeon that wrongly tried to oust an Anesthesiologist just wouldn't make it far.

I gotta be honest, i dont disagree with the statement that a comfortable surgeon is a better surgeon. I often times see my job as a bit of a babysitter of surgeons... If it doesnt harm the patients i let them have their little toys and what not. I like to work hard. I like to be a team player. At times that means i probably bend over but it works in my favour too...

But if ****s going down, i will light it up.

At the end of the day, if my patients do ok and i get home at a reasonable hour im ok with that...

 

[thinkorswim]

Thank you so much for figuring out my life Dr. Freud. I have been so so lost without your wisdom.
And yeah, I am a Black Female physician in a White male dominated speciality. My White girlfriends go through drama as well even though they don't advertise it. I am the one on here who screams from the rooftops and say s hit people don't want to hear because they want to keep pretending it isn't happening and that I must be the one with the problem.

But I will be sure to call you up next time I run into some issues. Please wait by your phone.

Ah yes, I forgot that being a female minority physician is a free pass to be indiscriminately rude for no reason.

There’s a time and place for everything, you just don’t seem to realize it.

 

[kidthor]

Thanks for the condolences. Yeah, have had my fair share of jerk surgeons in the past and I am glad I don't have to deal with that nonsense much in the ICU. One of the reasons I hate being in the CT ICU is because of the surgeons. They are such a joy and oh so lovely. Unfortunately one of the only two nice CT surgeons I have ever know died in a MCC. He was European so maybe that means something, or not.
I do find if funny for a man to tell a woman in a mostly male dominated field that it's not a sex thing because I know one mentor who was tough as nails. Well the reality is, when women push back we are often labeled as "aggressive, combative, bitchy". Honey that is just the reality we live in and please don't tell us that we don't get treated any differently because we don't have a Y chromosome. The reality is, we often do get treated differently and more poorer than our male counterparts. And to add to the fact, yeah I am black just like you so double whammy, although I have often said I think my gender plays more a role than my race.
So yeah, I am glad to be finally getting my "ego stroked" in the ICU. Never mind the simple fact that I just want to be treated decently and not jockeying for equality.
TBF, I honestly did not know what I was signing up for when I went for anesthesia. Hind sight.
And yeah, I know I am the unpopular opinion on here often times, but guess what? Can't stop, won't stop.

I've observed that the more personality disordered surgical types on average treat female anesthesiologists worse. And then decent surgeons seem decent to all.

I agree with Choco's earlier statement about different treatment in the ICU vs the OR - and I think this difference is very hospital dependent. The high-functioning hospitals with good culture and no tolerance for bad behavior seem to foster high respect for OR anesthesiologists (often as safety and enterprise management leaders). Too many lower-functioning hospitals are money oriented at the expense of everything else, and that leads to bad treatment of all sorts of people... anesthesiologists included.

 

[chocomorsel]

Ah yes, I forgot that being a female minority physician is a free pass to be indiscriminately rude for no reason.

There’s a time and place for everything, you just don’t seem to realize it.

Dude, this is the friggin internet. Where people come to vent and shoot the s hit. I am sorry, was I supposed to be auditioning for you as well? On this here internet? Like a 🎪 monkey?
Let me find my juggle balls. I think they are right next to my tail. Hold on, I am trying to catch them here....
Keep trying to school me and see how far you get.

 

[chocomorsel]

I've observed that the more personality disordered surgical types on average treat female anesthesiologists worse. And then decent surgeons seem decent to all.

I agree with Choco's earlier statement about different treatment in the ICU vs the OR - and I think this difference is very hospital dependent. The high-functioning hospitals with good culture and no tolerance for bad behavior seem to foster high respect for OR anesthesiologists (often as safety and enterprise management leaders). Too many lower-functioning hospitals are money oriented at the expense of everything else, and that leads to bad treatment of all sorts of people... anesthesiologists included.

Preach on brother. And that right there is the truth.
But I, as the woman am not allowed to say it. Because when I say it, it makes people more uncomfortable.
And yeah, totally hospital and culture dependent. And I have worked at a lot of hospitals as an independent and locums.

 

[circleK]

Back on the topic of SoCal...
Any members on here that are affiliated with ASMG that wouldn’t mind a PM convo about the practice please hit me up. Thanks in advance!

 

[turnupthegas]

Anyone have any updated info on Bayside in Santa Monica? Seems like a longer partnership track but area is IDEAL (for me, at least).

What about Cedars-Sinai? Have heard mixed reviews... But wanted to get an idea of how long the partnership is?

 

[Tony C anesthesia]

Anyone have any updated info on Bayside in Santa Monica? Seems like a longer partnership track but area is IDEAL (for me, at least).

What about Cedars-Sinai? Have heard mixed reviews... But wanted to get an idea of how long the partnership is?

I don't think you can live in the area with what Bayside will pay you. Ask yourself why are they always short if everything is alright?

 

[Folken]

I know this might be group dependent, but I had a question about unit values in Socal. When someone is quoting group X pays $40 per unit, does that mean $40/unit + benefits (covered by the group)? Or is it $40/unit, but you have to pay your own malpractice, fees, and other overhead...effectively making it less?

 

[nimbus]

I know this might be group dependent, but I had a question about unit values in Socal. When someone is quoting group X pays $40 per unit, does that mean $40/unit + benefits (covered by the group)? Or is it $40/unit, but you have to pay your own malpractice, fees, and other overhead...effectively making it less?

In my group it’s the latter. Top line gross collections based on unit value+stipends. Everything is paid out of that.

 

[nimbus]

I don't think you can live in the area with what Bayside will pay you. Ask yourself why are they always short if everything is alright?

Residents live in the area so....

 

[Peterluger]

Residents live in the area so....

He means to live in the area respectably. As in, to afford to buy a single family home in Santa Monica that you can actually raise kids in. Bayside doesn’t pay enough to do that

 

[nimbus]

He means to live in the area respectably. As in, to afford to buy a single family home in Santa Monica that you can actually raise kids in. Bayside doesn’t pay enough to do that

How much do you need to live “respectably” in the area?

 

[Peterluger]

How much do you need to live “respectably” in the area?

Single family home in Santa Monica proper, with no risk of being hit by machine gun fire: start at $2.5 million. And thats for like a 2,000 sq ft house.

 

[GassYous]

I know this might be group dependent, but I had a question about unit values in Socal. When someone is quoting group X pays $40 per unit, does that mean $40/unit + benefits (covered by the group)? Or is it $40/unit, but you have to pay your own malpractice, fees, and other overhead...effectively making it less?

Everything comes out of your billings.

 

[nimbus]

Single family home in Santa Monica proper, with no risk of being hit by machine gun fire: start at $2.5 million. And thats for like a 2,000 sq ft house.

So if you’re starting out with no family money you’d need income of $1-1.5mil? My point is that many people all over the world raise kids in apartments. Americans and especially American doctors I think are particularly prone to house fetish.

 

[GassYous]

So if you’re starting out with no family money you’d need income of $1-1.5mil? My point is that many people all over the world raise kids in apartments. Americans and especially American doctors I think are particularly prone to house fetish.

I think there's something about living in your own place without having to hear your neighbors music blasting through the wall or having them moving furniture above you at 3 in the morning.

 

[Peterluger]

So if you’re starting out with no family money you’d need income of $1-1.5mil? My point is that many people all over the world raise kids in apartments. Americans and especially American doctors I think are particularly prone to house fetish.

For southern california, that is not a respectable way of life. No, its not normal for physicians in LA to raise their family in an apartment. It’s normal in NYC, but really not as much the case in LA.

There are other random things too which differ between the coasts, like the fact that in LA, Dunkin Donuts is only in gangster neighborhoods, but in NYC they are everywhere. LOL

 

[Twiggidy]

So if you’re starting out with no family money you’d need income of $1-1.5mil? My point is that many people all over the world raise kids in apartments. Americans and especially American doctors I think are particularly prone to house fetish.

There's truth here and honestly I suffer from it myself.

That being said, as with more "very desirable" places to live, to find a value home takes some research and patience. You can absolutely find under 2 million in Santa Monica or Venice. Sure it may not be a mansion and maybe you'll need to put some elbow grease into the home, but they're there. Otherwise, as being said, a decent sized condo can be found for under 2 million and you're blocks from the ocean. That life isn't for everyone.

I stand by my theory that the job isn't for the family with the single income bread winner. I imagine it for someone with a spouse that probably has a big time LA job that brings in most of the income or even if it's two people in medicine, the spouse could be a specialist at UCLA with the salary and benefits to cover the family.

 

[Twiggidy]

I think there's something about living in your own place without having to hear your neighbors music blasting through the wall or having them moving furniture above you at 3 in the morning.

There's truth in that also.....speaking as someone with experience