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Maybe we should go to Med school?
- Thread starter MountainPharmD
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Exactly! Also I find it very funny when the same team that spends most of the game taking their sweet time on plays (and using horrible clock management skills like kneeling on the ball at the end of the half) finds that they are down by a few points with 30 seconds on the clock at the end of the 4th quarter and then they have the attitude "every second counts!!!!!!!"
Ha if they'd had a better attitude for the rest of the game maybe they wouldn't be down, kwim?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCHZFwDCNyA
Classic.
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On the other hand, if you conserve the clock, it would give the other team time to score on their own rather than you getting a last second FG attempt to win the game. **** works both ways.
Don't you think this already happens. Dispensing physicians are becoming more popular. This is The law NC has on the subject http://www.ncbop.org/dispphys_regreq.htm, but it is not rare for states to allow physicians to sell medications to patients for a fee. Also you should note that, he is saying that with additional training. IF the PharmD curriculum were nationally standardized and revamped to have more emphasis on diagnostics we could take on a lot of basic diagnosis and prescribe drugs to treat those ailments. Aside from professional ambition, the reason that this is a good idea is that we are generally more accessible to the community than any other health care provider.
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Yeah good point, a team has to rely on its kicker being consistent when it's running the clock for a last second FG. No excuses if it's a 30 yarder...but when you're pushing up against your kicker's career long distance, offense shoulda gotten him closer, tough to blame him then.
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no offense, but it seems pharm forum belittle physicians ALL the time.
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grammar fixed. you're welcome.
I hope you understand that the "pharm forum" is not a single entity. It's not like "pharm forum" people have one mind and one thought process. If you've been on it long enough to see someone belittle a physican then you have also been on it long enough to see that people that frequent the "pharm forum" also have different opinions and often have heated discussion. You can't hold ONE person responsible for the few times you've seen belittled. To be honest I can't remeber that taking place but I am sure it has, and I am sure the reverse has also happened on the other side.
Does this tit for tat really work? They poked fun at us so we should poke fun at them? I mean really, has it?
It's time we started getting rid of stupid stereotypes and foolish assumptions about other health care professionals. I understand where the competitiveness comes from, we all had to work hard and compete to get into our various professional schools etc. but people seriously this is a "team sport".
To go along with the football idea. In order for the kicker to have a shot, the offense needs to get the ball within his kicking range. In order for the team to win, the kicker needs to make it or the offense/defense need to score. At the end of the team either wins together or loses together. So ALL the members of the team have an obligation to help each other and to look out for each other.
In health care it's the same way (with the team including the patients and their family and friends). We either win together or lose together. Except in this case, losing can very well mean the death of the patient. So shouldn't that be more incentive to work together????
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i am sure you've taken ample amount of time to read ALL of the pharmacy forum threads and have come to that conclusion~ no offense, but it seems as though your methodology of generating a conclusion isn't quite accurate...As for the Dr/Doctor issue from early in the thread I'll say this.
The title "Doctor" referred to people who had studied Islamic Law to such a level that they were respected teachers/professors of law. The Arabic word for teacher was subsequently translated to it's latin equivalent "Doctor". Originally the Term Doctor was used with Law degrees. It was later used for other areas. Amusingly enough, Lawyers are the only people who don't seem to want to be called Doctor.
In many countries Physicians/Surgeons, Pharmacists, Vets, Dentists all get bachelors degrees. But they are generally refereed to by the public as "Dr." SoandSo. However when you say SoandSo is a <insert profession> you generally say "Doctor" about physicians, pharmacists are either called just that, or "Doctors in Pharmacy" and so on. So adding Dr. when talking to a pharmacists (unless requested not to do so) is generally the respectful thing to do, and it is not something that was "just invented with the PharmD", it just wasn't prevalent in the U.S.
Having said that when I get my PharmD <God willing> I will not go around introducing myself as Dr. SoandSo to random people on the street. I wouldn't even do that if I was to become a physician. It is useless. For the most part no one cares that you are a physician/pharmacist when you are standing in the McDonald line. However if you are in a hospital, or you are in an academic setting discussing health issues then introducing yourself as Dr. SoandSo is fine, AS LONG AS YOU STATE YOUR SPECIALTY. By that I mean "I'm Dr. SoandSo, I'm a pharmacist with a board specialty in Oncology/Hematology". Also, don't just say your a physician. Say Cardiologist, or Dermatologist. It makes a difference.
Obviously I would not have people I'm close to call me "Dr." all the time or ever. But if anyone insists on me using their title of choice, (His Excellency the judge, or Senator, or Dr. or w/e) I would insist on mine as well. It may sound like "posturing" but sometimes you have to do that to get things done, sad as it may seem. You can't let people walk all over you.
There are people in our society who are more likely to cooperate if you have a title. My anthropology professor told us that one time his wife called the electric company to resolve a bill dispute and they wouldn't give her the time of day. He called and introduced himself as Dr (he's a Phd) and was amazed and that difference in treatment. He went on to mention other issues as well.
As for whether or not Pharmacists "deserve" a title. I'll say that some pharmacists are only deserving of the title "idiot". The same goes for some physicians. You have to earn your respect, no one gets it just by making it through med. or pharm. school.
These articles are amusing.
http://www.nature.com/bdj/journal/v193/n11/full/4801645a.html
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Apothecary
They provide a mildly interesting read. (Disc. I didn't finish them)
The following is directed only to that one annoying med. student who thought his/her penis was the largest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacist#History
The title "Doctor" referred to people who had studied Islamic Law to such a level that they were respected teachers/professors of law. The Arabic word for teacher was subsequently translated to it's latin equivalent "Doctor". Originally the Term Doctor was used with Law degrees. It was later used for other areas. Amusingly enough, Lawyers are the only people who don't seem to want to be called Doctor.
In many countries Physicians/Surgeons, Pharmacists, Vets, Dentists all get bachelors degrees. But they are generally refereed to by the public as "Dr." SoandSo. However when you say SoandSo is a <insert profession> you generally say "Doctor" about physicians, pharmacists are either called just that, or "Doctors in Pharmacy" and so on. So adding Dr. when talking to a pharmacists (unless requested not to do so) is generally the respectful thing to do, and it is not something that was "just invented with the PharmD", it just wasn't prevalent in the U.S.
Having said that when I get my PharmD <God willing> I will not go around introducing myself as Dr. SoandSo to random people on the street. I wouldn't even do that if I was to become a physician. It is useless. For the most part no one cares that you are a physician/pharmacist when you are standing in the McDonald line. However if you are in a hospital, or you are in an academic setting discussing health issues then introducing yourself as Dr. SoandSo is fine, AS LONG AS YOU STATE YOUR SPECIALTY. By that I mean "I'm Dr. SoandSo, I'm a pharmacist with a board specialty in Oncology/Hematology". Also, don't just say your a physician. Say Cardiologist, or Dermatologist. It makes a difference.
Obviously I would not have people I'm close to call me "Dr." all the time or ever. But if anyone insists on me using their title of choice, (His Excellency the judge, or Senator, or Dr. or w/e) I would insist on mine as well. It may sound like "posturing" but sometimes you have to do that to get things done, sad as it may seem. You can't let people walk all over you.
There are people in our society who are more likely to cooperate if you have a title. My anthropology professor told us that one time his wife called the electric company to resolve a bill dispute and they wouldn't give her the time of day. He called and introduced himself as Dr (he's a Phd) and was amazed and that difference in treatment. He went on to mention other issues as well.
As for whether or not Pharmacists "deserve" a title. I'll say that some pharmacists are only deserving of the title "idiot". The same goes for some physicians. You have to earn your respect, no one gets it just by making it through med. or pharm. school.
These articles are amusing.
http://www.nature.com/bdj/journal/v193/n11/full/4801645a.html
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Apothecary
They provide a mildly interesting read. (Disc. I didn't finish them)
The following is directed only to that one annoying med. student who thought his/her penis was the largest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pharmacist#History
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No offense, but who saves your ass when you're too lazy to properly fill out a prescription? Or when I fax for a refill on Lisinopril 10mg and you send me back a Lisinopril 40mg?
Oh that's right, WE DO.
Seriously, get off your high horse and look at pharmacists as what they are, a colleague in the field. We're all integral parts in patient care and isn't that what this is all supposed to be about? The health of the patient?
And besides, I have a crown that say I'm the King of Pharmacy. Beat that!
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The argument of accessibility is weak and myopic. Pharmacists are accessible primarily because they do not do diagnosis. Diagnosis takes time. Having hundreds of scripts to fill, with what time are you going to do that? If you suggest that techs and machines take over most of the dispensing, then how are you still a pharmacist and not a dispensing physician? Why not just hire a physician who does everything? Modern medical diagnosis also requires a plethora of tests. With what facility and manpower are you going do this? If the goal is to turn all pharmacies into minute clinics, then there are plenty of NP's and PA's to man them also.
There are after all more primary care physicians and NP's in the country than pharmacists. The accessibility of pharmacists doesn't hold water.
Pharmacists see patients more often than physicians on average. If we can do something to support there medical outcomes between doctor visits I'm all for it.
Honestly Techs do most of the dispensing. Read the other posts if you don't believe me. Your assertion that pharmacists are nothing more than mindless pez dispensing machines is absurd. I have been involved in the design of two drugs and my career is just begining.
And yes, modern medical diagnosis does involve a lot of tests. You should google the word "Lab Core". They are used for this purpose regularly. I am by no means suggesting that we should take the placie of physicians, rather I'm suggesting we are in an ideal position to take a proactive role in healthcare.
Yes, some diagnosis are difficult, but some are not that difficult. I am talking about a highly speciallized practice.
And likewise NP and physicians are undertrained in pharmaceutics, medicinal chemistry, pharmacokinetics, and pharmacokinetics. I'm saying that we should have the autonomy to use these skill sin clinical practice.
Personally I am one of the few people out there who have a diagnostics and pharmaceutical dual background.
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It does involve a lot of testing but even with just a good history, physical, experience and clinical judgment the physician usually has a pretty good idea of what's going on and uses testing to confirm it, or to rule out something serious.
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That's not my assertion at all... I'm arguing that designing and formulating drugs, consulting physicians about medications and dosages, guaranteeing fidelity, etc is what you should be doing. Instead, you are arguing that you should diagnose, do physicals, take histories, and essentially become a dispensing primary care physician, just because you know your pharmaceuticals better than a 4th year med student.
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wow this is an interesting thread lol
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Does anyone anywhere actually think pharmacists should be diagnosing anything? That's so far off from the vanguard of that whole medication management stuff that I feel like I'm drowning in the Ignorant Sea.
Too many of the pharmacy and medical students appear to be clueless as to what the hell they are talking about.
This thread needs to die. It makes my head hurt.
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Diagnosis is not our specialty and it never was. The fact that you say diagnosis is not that complicated sounds a little cocky. You have to be skilled enough to differentiate symptoms and not to overlook anything either. Differential diagnosis is a key and our education does NOT put any emphasis on it. A high blood pressure does NOT always indicate primary hypertension. You need to consider rare diseases and conditions, we do not have the time to study this. Just like docs/NP/PA don't have time for kinetics, dynamics, genomics, a pharmaceutics.
Agreed, from what I understand 70% of the diagnosis comes from a good H&P. This is what separates us. To be honest, I don't want that responsibility. Medicine has become specialized in that it requires a multidisciplinary approach; you guys Dx. We worry about OPTIMIZING Tx.
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No ****! Not one practicing pharmacists on here has posted one word about diagnosing anything. It is the ignorant medical students, pre-pharms and students who do not undestand and have missed the point. I will post this from way back on page one to anyone who is still unclear as to what I was refering to when I started this thread.
Seriously how do 20 people read this and start rambling on about how pharmacists are not train to diagnose blah, blah, blah .. If you do not know what we are talking about do not post worthless comments.
Community Pharmacists need to and often do have an idea of what is going on when a patient comes in and asks questions. That doesn't mean they should provide a diagnosis. I would say that a lot of the minor things pharmacists can probably pick out from the symptoms. At the very least they need to know when something is potentially more serious so they can recommend that the patient go in to see physician immediately. They absolutely should not offer a diagnosis on the spot. If they are close to the patient and are familiar with their medical history, then I it would be nice if they collaborated with the physican so that the physican has a better idea of what maybe happening. Ex. If they let the physican know that they have been taking medication X for their blood pressure and that this medication is known to cause symptom U the physician can then take that into account etc.
There is necessary overlap between the training of physicians and pharmacist. This is good as they need to have an idea of what is going on with the big picture. That doesn't mean they should be trying to do each others jobs. I would certainly hope that those who were so adamant about pharmacists inferior training in diagnosis would be just as adamant in defending pharmacists superior training when it comes to pharmacotherapy.
What do you all think of a system where the physician diagnosis then steps back and lets the pharmacist manage therapy. It seems to me that would maximize the quality of care as each person gets to focus on their area of expertise. This would also allow physicians to spend more time talking to the patients and getting an accurate diagnosis. It would decrease liability/pressure on the physicians. At the same time it would allow pharmacists to put their years of training to it's maximal use.
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You guys check out ASHP's med management thingy...good resources...
"Because of the immense variety and complexity of medications now available, it is impossible for nurses or doctors to keep up with all of the information required for safe medication use. The pharmacist has become an essential resource…and thus, access to his or her expertise must be possible at all times."
— To Err is Human: Building a Safer Health System, Institute of Medicine, 1999
A recent study showed that as the number of pharmacists involved in patient care rose in U.S. hospitals, medication-error rates dropped from an average of 700 per hospital per year to 245 per hospital per year—a 65 percent decrease.
— Pharmacotherapy, 2002: 22(2): 134-47.
"Seventy-eight percent fewer preventable adverse drug events occurred among patients in a hospital's general medicine unit when a pharmacist participated in weekday medical rounds."
— Archives of Internal Medicine, 2003; 163(17):2014-8.
"Preventable adverse drug events in an ICU decreased by 66 percent when a pharmacist was present on rounds as a full member of the patient-care team."
— Journal of the American Medical Association, 1999; 282(3):267-70.
Pharmacists providing pharmaceutical care in 1,000 U.S. hospitals saved nearly 400 lives and $5.1 billion in health care costs.
— Pharmacotherapy, 1999; 19(2):130-8; Pharmacotherapy, 2000; 20(6):609-21.
"As the major resource for drug information, pharmacists are much more valuable to the patient-care team if they are physically present at the time decisions are being made and orders are being written."
— To Err is Human: Building a Safer Health System, Institute of Medicine, 1999
Patients treated with blood thinners in a pharmacist-managed anticoagulation clinic had fewer emergency room visits, fewer hospitalizations, and showed a total cost savings of $1,621 per patient.
— Archives of Internal Medicine, 1998; 158: 1641-7.
"Pharmacists' medication recommendations improved clinical outcomes in over 30 percent of cases at a Veterans Administration medical center, saving more than $420,000."
— American Journal of Health-System Pharmacy, 2002; 59: 2070-77.
"Outcomes in heart failure can be improved with a clinical pharmacist as a member of the multidisciplinary heart failure team."
— Archives of Internal Medicine, 1999; 159:1939–45.
"For every dollar invested in pharmacist care, hospitals save nearly $17 in benefits to patients for each $1 invested in clinical pharmacy services."
— Pharmacotherapy, 2003; 23: 113-125.
Pharmacists providing services for an HMO to patients saved an average of $20 per prescription.
— Journal of the American Pharmaceutical Association, 2000; 40(2):157-165.
Pharmacists providing pharmaceutical care to patients in an ambulatory care clinic saved nearly $250,000 in one month.
— Hospital Pharmacy, 1992; 27(3): 203-6, 208-9.
Pharmacists collaborating with physicians to care for high-risk patients reduced the number of prescriptions per patient and saved nearly $600 per year per patient in drug costs.
— Journal of Family Practice, 1995; 41(5): 469-72.
Pharmacist services saved over $75,000 in three months and prevented additional medical problems from occurring by identifying prescribing errors.
— Annals of Pharmacotherapy, 1992; 26(12): 1580-4.
"The direct participation of a pharmacist on a patient care team significantly decreased pharmacy and hospital costs, as well as length of stay, compared with minimal participation of a pharmacist."
— American Journal of Health-System Pharmacy, 1997; 54(14): 1591-1595.
"Because of the immense variety and complexity of medications now available, it is impossible for nurses or doctors to keep up with all of the information required for safe medication use. The pharmacist has become an essential resource…and thus, access to his or her expertise must be possible at all times."
— To Err is Human: Building a Safer Health System, Institute of Medicine, 1999
A recent study showed that as the number of pharmacists involved in patient care rose in U.S. hospitals, medication-error rates dropped from an average of 700 per hospital per year to 245 per hospital per year—a 65 percent decrease.
— Pharmacotherapy, 2002: 22(2): 134-47.
"Seventy-eight percent fewer preventable adverse drug events occurred among patients in a hospital's general medicine unit when a pharmacist participated in weekday medical rounds."
— Archives of Internal Medicine, 2003; 163(17):2014-8.
"Preventable adverse drug events in an ICU decreased by 66 percent when a pharmacist was present on rounds as a full member of the patient-care team."
— Journal of the American Medical Association, 1999; 282(3):267-70.
Pharmacists providing pharmaceutical care in 1,000 U.S. hospitals saved nearly 400 lives and $5.1 billion in health care costs.
— Pharmacotherapy, 1999; 19(2):130-8; Pharmacotherapy, 2000; 20(6):609-21.
"As the major resource for drug information, pharmacists are much more valuable to the patient-care team if they are physically present at the time decisions are being made and orders are being written."
— To Err is Human: Building a Safer Health System, Institute of Medicine, 1999
Patients treated with blood thinners in a pharmacist-managed anticoagulation clinic had fewer emergency room visits, fewer hospitalizations, and showed a total cost savings of $1,621 per patient.
— Archives of Internal Medicine, 1998; 158: 1641-7.
"Pharmacists' medication recommendations improved clinical outcomes in over 30 percent of cases at a Veterans Administration medical center, saving more than $420,000."
— American Journal of Health-System Pharmacy, 2002; 59: 2070-77.
"Outcomes in heart failure can be improved with a clinical pharmacist as a member of the multidisciplinary heart failure team."
— Archives of Internal Medicine, 1999; 159:1939–45.
"For every dollar invested in pharmacist care, hospitals save nearly $17 in benefits to patients for each $1 invested in clinical pharmacy services."
— Pharmacotherapy, 2003; 23: 113-125.
Pharmacists providing services for an HMO to patients saved an average of $20 per prescription.
— Journal of the American Pharmaceutical Association, 2000; 40(2):157-165.
Pharmacists providing pharmaceutical care to patients in an ambulatory care clinic saved nearly $250,000 in one month.
— Hospital Pharmacy, 1992; 27(3): 203-6, 208-9.
Pharmacists collaborating with physicians to care for high-risk patients reduced the number of prescriptions per patient and saved nearly $600 per year per patient in drug costs.
— Journal of Family Practice, 1995; 41(5): 469-72.
Pharmacist services saved over $75,000 in three months and prevented additional medical problems from occurring by identifying prescribing errors.
— Annals of Pharmacotherapy, 1992; 26(12): 1580-4.
"The direct participation of a pharmacist on a patient care team significantly decreased pharmacy and hospital costs, as well as length of stay, compared with minimal participation of a pharmacist."
— American Journal of Health-System Pharmacy, 1997; 54(14): 1591-1595.
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I love citations
Also, this articles topic as fluctuated quite a bit. The title "Maybe we should go to Med school?". Then it has an article discussing how there is a shortage of primary care physicians and how NPs could offset this. Below this link is a breif discussion on how worthless national pharmacy organizations are and how they should push for the value of pharmacists to be recognized and put to good use. (Medication management is to some degree implied but not specifically mentioned.) Since then the article has dissolved into a discussion about which health care professional is more of a rock star as well as some brief discussion of football and the VMAs. I don't see what upset you, you should be happy that we got this article back on track!
In all seriousness, I am still learning about medication management. Do pharmacists under this program have full abilities to control the medication therapy, or are they still having to call the physicians to have it changed. I understand that in the VA pharmacists have prescriptive abilities, and in ambulatory clinics pharmacists only get prescriptive abilities if the physician signs off for them. From my brief knowledge of mm, it's scope is smaller than that implied in my post because with the exception of a few select programs pharmacists are still just the expert with the advice and not so much the person in control of the therapy (at least in theory if not in practice). (Correct me if I'm wrong there, you obviously have more experience/knowledge in this area than I).
I'm also quite interested in the opinion of physicians/residents on this issue.
Very good information, thanks. We should all send this to our respective reps. in Washington.
I think the APhA is working on the health reform issue. They just seem to be ignoring the media, which could be a problem since so many Politicians base decisions partly on that.
Here are some related articles for those of you interested. At the bottom of these articles you'll find information for contacting your state reps. (Maybe this should be in a separate thread with a sticky. Mods?)
A Guide to Writing Your Members of Congress on Health Care Reform
APhA and Health Care Reform
Four life-changing MTM sessions: Crucial information patients need
Kerr opening MTM-only location in Charleston
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Rule one, don't call people out using poor grammar. And, at least give us a first name or a link if you are trying to demonstrate a point.
Oh well do forgive me as I was posting from my Blackberry(R) and have some difficulty with the keys (the auto apostrophe can be most irritating) . As it appears proper grammar is the key to get your attention I shall present my case in this format.
The physician I am referring to is Dr. Charles C. Richardson. Dr. Richardson has been at the Harvard University School of Medicine for many years. A friend of mine worked with Dr. Richardson on a project that was published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Science regarding a unique loop in T7 DNA polymerase which mediates the binding of helicase-primase, DNA binding protein, and processivity factor.
I hope this clears things up.
Oh if you would like more information it is as follows:
http://bcmp.med.harvard.edu/index.php?option=com_akostaff&Itemid=51&func=fullview&staffid=44
Cheers!
Is that better?
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I just started seeing patients last week in an MTM clinic and I like making med adjustments but I have no interest in diagnostics, nor do I know pharmacists who do I absolutely don't have the training for that. I just want to optimize therapy, I don't want to see rashes on peoples' nether regions.
I already got a hug from a patient for listening to her concerns - that hasn't happened in awhile Usually I'm just getting yelled at.
I absolutely don't have the training for that. I just want to optimize therapy, I don't want to see rashes on peoples' nether regions. I already got a hug from a patient for listening to her concerns - that hasn't happened in awhile
Usually I'm just getting yelled at.
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If anyone saw UF vs UT this afternoon, it would seem that pharmacists run the show based on this logic, the UF kicker was the highest scoring player!
Care to elaborate?
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Thanks for that really informative post.
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well...what'dya expect? 90% of my fellow pharm students have never really "worked" a day in their lives. working PT as a pharm clerk/tech for admissions, or at the college bookstore, doesn't count
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I don't think there is any need other than reading this, and most other threads.
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so you agree with the med students on here then????
Most medical students are *****s too.
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ego.
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smarter than most pharm students & pharmacists.
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Frankly, most people I have met in the pharmacy profession - students and practitioners have a very insular attitude, that might be what you are seeing at the pharmacy school level. I have tried to start many conversations I had assumed would be no-brainers and been met with blank stares. I have asked a Walgreens pharmacist about what she thought of POWER and was asked "what's that?" I have been asked by a hospital pharmacist "what would you even DO with a pharmd/mph?" I asked a retail chain pharmacist about delayed Medicaid reimbursements due to red tape and was greeted by "huh?"
And even on here, I started a thread on this very forum about the recent AWP lawsuit that has the potential to screw over retail even further - I posted expecting some actual passion on the issue since most pharmacists work in retail and was greeted by one response. ONE lol ... how sad is that? This isn't even my industry yet, how come I can muster more passion on the issue than the pharmacists this could directly screw over?!
Sure there are some pharmacists who are involved in their profession, but I have talked to too many students and practitioners to believe that the cases I have mentioned are in the minority. It's sad, and frustrating.
Apparently you guys have never been to UNC Chapel Hill.
Check it out http://pharmacy.unc.edu
I'm proud to claim this school as my alma mater
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I just started seeing patients last week in an MTM clinic and I like making med adjustments but I have no interest in diagnostics, nor do I know pharmacists who do
I already got a hug from a patient for listening to her concerns - that hasn't happened in awhile
I do agree. I have no interest in diagnosing and I don't think I am going to be well trained in the subject like a Dr.
However, there are times when a pharmacist has better expertise and can be there to make dosing changes and better drug choices.
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I agree if you are talking about dermatologist and cosmetic surgeons. I don't think just getting into medical school makes them smarter, getting into med school isn't that hard. Just takes effort. Its getting into one of those competive residencies like derm or surgery that takes brains.
Smarter? How do you measure that? I think on average medical students are harder working. Smarter? Really? What do you base this on? I would hope that Pharmacists would on average at least be on par with physicians.
I'll tell you what, a lot of pharmacy students seem to be a lot more self-deprecating and negative esp. in regards to their profession. If you aren't proud of the important role you play in health care and if you don't respect the career how can anyone else respect it or come to trust your services? This isn't about bragging, it's about self respect and it is even partially an ethical issue. I mean if you take your job as a joke, and not really worthwhile, something that can be done by stupid people etc. Then your not going to be doing a very good job. If you respect the field, then you will be putting your all into it.
Maybe a job shortage would be good for pharmacists. It'll make the *****s who don't respect the field go and find something else to do. So that we get dedicated people working. Maybe then we will have less instances of pharmacists-related mistakes.
How can you determine intelligence based on career choice? I know plenty of very smart people who don't want to do dermatology, they want to do internal medicine, or family practice. Does that make someone who want to do dermatology better?
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The reason why I say Derm and Surgeons are smarter is because it is something that I cannot do.
If I wanted to get into medical school I can. And I can definetly pass classes in med school too b/c I did that for a semester at Columbia (w/o studying on weekends). So getting into med school and getting by is not very hard. However in order to get into a Derm residency or surgery, you have to be #1 or #2 in your class. That is something that I cannot do mainly b/c of lack of motivation. Money/good lifestyle can only motivate me so much...plus I was in NYC...I prefer going out on the weekends than studying.
