Maybe we should go to Med school?

[SHC1984]

It's easy to be a celebrity. Follow these step by step instructions and you will be famous:

1. Go down to your local gun shop.
2. Buy some weapons.
3. Go to your local police precinct.
4. Go inside.
5. Open fire.

I want to be famous AND RICH, not famous and in prison for life!

The point is MD are so cocky about being a doctor, I think the only job I would be really jealous of is being a famous celebrity. Now thats a job that I am a REJECT of, not med school! I think anyone can get into med school if they put the effort into it, however I can't say the same thing for being a celebrity.

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[delano2000]

So this is the hot thread in the pharmacy forum.

 

[njac]

SHC - why did you drop out of med school? Just curious, if it's something you don't want to go into that's fine.

 

[SHC1984]

SHC - why did you drop out of med school? Just curious, if it's something you don't want to go into that's fine.

I dropped out of dental school cuz I don't like teeth and bad breath. But I was techincially in "medical school" because Columbia combines their dental students with their medical students. We take the same classes as the med students for the first two years. Its actually harder for the dental students because we have to take all the classes the medical students take PLUS take dental laboratory to work on our handskills. And I have no handskills so it was extra hard for me. LOL...

 

[SHC1984]

Oh and I choose pharmacy because it offers a wide range of opportunties. I can work in industry, work in mail order or be a pharmaceutical sales rep. The job pays decent and the job enviroment is clean and blood/saliva free. Besides winning the lottery or becoming a celebrity. What more can I ask for? LOL...

 

[Jbuprepharm]

Oh and I choose pharmacy because it offers a wide range of opportunties. I can work in industry, work in mail order or be a pharmaceutical sales rep. The job pays decent and the job enviroment is clean and blood/saliva free. What more can I ask for?

I don't mind blood, but saliva and other bodily excretions... no thanks, pharmacy please

 

[SHC1984]

I don't mind blood, but saliva and other bodily excretions... no thanks, pharmacy please

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And I hope all the med students are reading this right now b/c this is the REAL REASON why I am not in med school right now. Theres the answer right up ^! (however, I do mind blood too! I don't like any bodily fluid or physical touching of another human being.)

 

[tackett26]

Forget this idiot. He'll flunk out of med school by the end of the semester.

Part of the problem? So your soltion to the primary care issue is to allow non-medically trained pharmacists to become primary care providers? Huh? Thats absurd. I would hope many PharmD students would agree as well.

There are many ways to become a pcp - Go to medical school and get an MD or DO degree. If you just want the patient care part you could go to PA school or become a nurse. All these fields are expanding to fill the PCP gap
at the current time.

Suggesting that PharmDs should just assume this role for a quick fix is ridiculous. Its also insulting to anyone who is actually going to school to become a physician or other pcp provider.

As for the degree...I have thought that one through, have you? Obtaining a PharmD in 6-8 yrs with/without a BA/BS before hand is not the same as attending 4 yrs for a BA/BS, then 4 yrs for a MD/DO, and then 4-7 yrs of residency.
PharmD - 6-8 years total
MD/DO - 12-15 years total
It is not the same. It is about half.

MD/DOs have been receiving doctorates for the past 200 years. It is not an inflated degree. Pharmacy was a masters level degree until recently and many in the academic and working world believe it still is a masters level of education/training that has been inflated to bring respect to the profession.

Why dont you pose this question in the MD/DO forums and see how much respect it brings you and the PharmD community.

 

[USArmyDoc]

Haha...typical inferiority complex. It's always the DO under appreciating anyone who isn't an MD/DO.

Aren't pharmacists like #2 most respected profession for the past ~5 years and before that the #1 most respected? I think this public trust coupled with their training puts them in a prime position to help with the primary care issue.

Ughhh....was totally on your guys side till comments like this.

Everyone can be a douche....MD/DO's can rip on podiatrists and PharmD's and so on.

I have rounded with clinical pharmacists and I really admired them. However, as a DO student applying for residency, my opinions have changed.

 

[USArmyDoc]

Yup. After 9/11, nurses became the #1 trusted profession and pharmacists slid down to #2.

We're having this same fight at Touro. It is the College of Pharmacy Vs College of Osteopathic Medicine. Last year while the College of Pharmacy facilities were under construction, the pharmacy students were not allowed to use the study rooms, and they even put up signs saying Medical Students Only.

So finally, our place is complete and these *******s have wandered up to our part of the building and feel that they are entitled to use our space. One guy even said, "all you do is count pills anyway", that set off the **** storm. The pharmacy dean was kicking osteopathic students out of the study rooms all morning.

****ing tools. How about this for inflammation? Osteopathic Medicine Practicioners aren't even real doctors. Bunch of effin quacks. HOOAH!
Onto Kanye West, I like some of his stuff but he was out of line, and I don't even like Taylor Swift. I wanna know why I never see hard rock and heavy metal at the VMAs.

I am on this board because my family member is entering pharmacy school and I think that it's great. I do NOT agree with Miam's attitude. I can't tell you how many MD's I hear knocking on PharmD's or DO's or podiatrists. Then there are SOOO many PharmD's knocking of MD's, DO's knocking on MD's, etc

Guys....WHO CARES....we are in healthcare and that means it can't be accompished by only one of us!!!

Medicine is full of d bags....Honestly, you guys have me kind of surprised but I'll just chalk this up to being a pissing contest by those who have an inferiority complex or the need to prove themselves. Personally, I do not feel the need to prove mysef and neither should you guys. I allow my hard work speak for itself.

I think clinical pharmacists are awesome

And by the way, I am a DO STUDENT....ya no the one that Sparda says arn't real doctors. Oh well, I still like what I do and will get paid well.

I look forward to working with you guys!

 

[Maxpwer222]

I am on this board because my family member is entering pharmacy school and I think that it's great. I do NOT agree with Miam's attitude. I can't tell you how many MD's I hear knocking on PharmD's or DO's or podiatrists. Then there are SOOO many PharmD's knocking of MD's, DO's knocking on MD's, etc

Guys....WHO CARES....we are in healthcare and that means it can't be accompished by only one of us!!!

Medicine is full of d bags....Honestly, you guys have me kind of surprised but I'll just chalk this up to being a pissing contest by those who have an inferiority complex or the need to prove themselves. Personally, I do not feel the need to prove mysef and neither should you guys. I allow my hard work speak for itself.

I think clinical pharmacists are awesome

And by the way, I am a DO STUDENT....ya no the one that Sparda says arn't real doctors. Oh well, I still like what I do and will get paid well.

I look forward to working with you guys!

I agree.

People in general are tools, no matter what profession you are in.

 

[SHC1984]

I am on this board because my family member is entering pharmacy school and I think that it's great. I do NOT agree with Miam's attitude. I can't tell you how many MD's I hear knocking on PharmD's or DO's or podiatrists. Then there are SOOO many PharmD's knocking of MD's, DO's knocking on MD's, etc

Guys....WHO CARES....we are in healthcare and that means it can't be accompished by only one of us!!!

Medicine is full of d bags....Honestly, you guys have me kind of surprised but I'll just chalk this up to being a pissing contest by those who have an inferiority complex or the need to prove themselves. Personally, I do not feel the need to prove mysef and neither should you guys. I allow my hard work speak for itself.

I think clinical pharmacists are awesome

And by the way, I am a DO STUDENT....ya no the one that Sparda says arn't real doctors. Oh well, I still like what I do and will get paid well.

I look forward to working with you guys!

To be honest, I don't know anything about DO schools or DO degrees...however in undergrad I hear my pre-med friends make fun of DO schools alot (one of them say something about DO can never be plastic surgeons b/c why would someone go to a DO to get a nose job? they would want to spend the extra $$$ to go to a MD to make sure its done right! thats my friend's words NOT mine. She is in MD school right now.), so I always assumed that people go into DO schools because they can't get into MD school. I had no interest in MD or DO, so I never looked into those programs, but never understood the difference btw DO and MD. Did you pick DO over MD by choice?

 

[lorain]

You could be right. However, I was in med school for a semester and passed all my classes (Columbia is only p/f). I remember anatomy being very hard (and gross I hated the lab for it), but the other classes were okay. Can't comment on pharmacy school because I have only been in it for 3 weeks. You are a med student?

no i went to a school that had a med and pharm school and my roomate was a med student...believe me, its a big difference between the 2, and im not putting down pharmacy, im in that field myself

i mean, hell, all we have to do is take a joke board exam and a law exam, whereas the med students have step 1, 2, 3, then their boards for specialty, its ridicolous

 

[SHC1984]

no i went to a school that had a med and pharm school and my roomate was a med student...believe me, its a big difference between the 2, and im not putting down pharmacy, im in that field myself

i mean, hell, all we have to do is take a joke board exam and a law exam, whereas the med students have step 1, 2, 3, then their boards for specialty, its ridicolous

I agree with you. So far pharmacy school has been okay, but I am just starting...its my third or forth week there! LOL... I heard the first year was easy but the 2nd and 3rd year was hard. I am glad I am still in the easy year right now!

 

[tjaze]

To be honest, I don't know anything about DO schools or DO degrees...however in undergrad I hear my pre-med friends make fun of DO schools alot (one of them say something about DO can never be plastic surgeons b/c why would someone go to a DO to get a nose job? they would want to spend the extra $$$ to go to a MD to make sure its done right! thats my friend's words NOT mine. She is in MD school right now.), so I always assumed that people go into DO schools because they can't get into MD school. I had no interest in MD or DO, so I never looked into those programs, but never understood the difference btw DO and MD. Did you pick DO over MD by choice?

DO schools historically had body manipulation as one of their core beliefs, but no one really follows that anymore,

the average mcat and gpa for DO schools are lower than for MD schools. but just because you get into an MD school doesn't mean you will automatically be a better physician. there are good students in DO just as there are some pretty stupid people at MD schools. people nowadays seem to take pride in being in a successful group rather than in their own accomplishments.

your friend is probably right about plastic surgery though. MD residencies are more likely to accept MDs than DOs.

 

[Priapism321]

I am on this board because my family member is entering pharmacy school and I think that it's great. I do NOT agree with Miam's attitude. I can't tell you how many MD's I hear knocking on PharmD's or DO's or podiatrists. Then there are SOOO many PharmD's knocking of MD's, DO's knocking on MD's, etc

Guys....WHO CARES....we are in healthcare and that means it can't be accompished by only one of us!!!

Medicine is full of d bags....Honestly, you guys have me kind of surprised but I'll just chalk this up to being a pissing contest by those who have an inferiority complex or the need to prove themselves. Personally, I do not feel the need to prove mysef and neither should you guys. I allow my hard work speak for itself.

I think clinical pharmacists are awesome

And by the way, I am a DO STUDENT....ya no the one that Sparda says arn't real doctors. Oh well, I still like what I do and will get paid well.

I look forward to working with you guys!

 

[Praziquantel86]

I am on this board because my family member is entering pharmacy school and I think that it's great. I do NOT agree with Miam's attitude. I can't tell you how many MD's I hear knocking on PharmD's or DO's or podiatrists. Then there are SOOO many PharmD's knocking of MD's, DO's knocking on MD's, etc

Guys....WHO CARES....we are in healthcare and that means it can't be accompished by only one of us!!!

Medicine is full of d bags....Honestly, you guys have me kind of surprised but I'll just chalk this up to being a pissing contest by those who have an inferiority complex or the need to prove themselves. Personally, I do not feel the need to prove mysef and neither should you guys. I allow my hard work speak for itself.

I think clinical pharmacists are awesome

And by the way, I am a DO STUDENT....ya no the one that Sparda says arn't real doctors. Oh well, I still like what I do and will get paid well.

I look forward to working with you guys!

A large amount of people over here don't agree with a lot of what he says either...

I've found that all the DOs I've worked with or gone to are excellent clinicians and great physicians. I'm sure there are bad DOs out there, but there's bad everything out there. DOs just get a bad rap.

 

[njac]

I don't mind blood, but saliva and other bodily excretions... no thanks, pharmacy please

yeah, I got sprayed with almost an entire unit of blood in the trauma room on Labor Day.

Pharmacy doesn't 100% protect you from bodily fluids - nevermind all the stuff intended for the lab that gets tubed to the pharmacy!

 

[tackett26]

Army Doc,

I honestly think that's the most intelligent statement I've read all night.
I'd work with you in a hospital any day of the week, and twice on Sunday!

I am on this board because my family member is entering pharmacy school and I think that it's great. I do NOT agree with Miam's attitude. I can't tell you how many MD's I hear knocking on PharmD's or DO's or podiatrists. Then there are SOOO many PharmD's knocking of MD's, DO's knocking on MD's, etc

Guys....WHO CARES....we are in healthcare and that means it can't be accompished by only one of us!!!

Medicine is full of d bags....Honestly, you guys have me kind of surprised but I'll just chalk this up to being a pissing contest by those who have an inferiority complex or the need to prove themselves. Personally, I do not feel the need to prove mysef and neither should you guys. I allow my hard work speak for itself.

I think clinical pharmacists are awesome

And by the way, I am a DO STUDENT....ya no the one that Sparda says arn't real doctors. Oh well, I still like what I do and will get paid well.

I look forward to working with you guys!

 

[USArmyDoc]

DO schools historically had body manipulation as one of their core beliefs, but no one really follows that anymore,

the average mcat and gpa for DO schools are lower than for MD schools. but just because you get into an MD school doesn't mean you will automatically be a better physician. there are good students in DO just as there are some pretty stupid people at MD schools. people nowadays seem to take pride in being in a successful group rather than in their own accomplishments.

your friend is probably right about plastic surgery though. MD residencies are more likely to accept MDs than DOs.[/QUOTE]

Very difficult to get with either an MD or DO.....look on Beverly Hills 90210....DO plastic surgeon there haha but it is harder.

 

[USArmyDoc]

A large amount of people over here don't agree with a lot of what he says either...

I've found that all the DOs I've worked with or gone to are excellent clinicians and great physicians. I'm sure there are bad DOs out there, but there's bad everything out there. DOs just get a bad rap.[/QUOTE]

Honestly, I don't see this very much. I have worked in huge top university programs to Jefferson University to community hospitals. Listen to many of your comments....a pre-med of mine said this....etc etc

When you work in the hospitals alot of times it doesn't even come up. I have worked with many MD students and we just don't care. We get along and work hard. I don't care what some premed (at that time) says. I am not here to prove anything to anyone. I am very competent and it shows in my rotation evals and the same goes for you guys.....No reason to prove yourself to some jerk MD/DO...Are you doing what you like? If so, who cares! Remember there will ALWAYS be someone ready to put you down. I hear MD students put down their fellow MD colleagues because they don't go to some high powered university program.

 

[USArmyDoc]

To be honest, I don't know anything about DO schools or DO degrees...however in undergrad I hear my pre-med friends make fun of DO schools alot (one of them say something about DO can never be plastic surgeons b/c why would someone go to a DO to get a nose job? they would want to spend the extra $$$ to go to a MD to make sure its done right! thats my friend's words NOT mine. She is in MD school right now.), so I always assumed that people go into DO schools because they can't get into MD school. I had no interest in MD or DO, so I never looked into those programs, but never understood the difference btw DO and MD. Did you pick DO over MD by choice?[/QUOTE]

Truth is there used to be a difference but no longer. Accepted to 5 DO 1MD school....attended DO upon advice of multiple MD's and the MD school was not good geographically. At that time, it would not of been wise to attend it for personal reason.

MCAT and GPA's.....yes still lower but not for long....average DMU gpa and MCAT is 3.6 and 28 MCAT....PCOM 29 & 3.7 on par with some MD schools.

I have PLENTY of kids in my class with 30+ MCATs that chose DO mostly based on geography and whether or not they liked the school. It really isn't exactly like the way it used to be, but yes there are plenty of students there because of lower GPA's and MCAT's.

Good luck with your studies and remember to just keep your ego's in check...I know I try to do the samething because I value everyone's education especially those that are willing to TEACH and not criticize. I have a lot of fun working with pharm students....I had one patient with idiopathic thrombocyotpenia and they asked me the pathophysiology behind the disease. I really enjoyed teaching them and then I asked them their opinions on treatment. I really enjoyed their input and willingness to teach me.

It is ashame medicine is full of a lot of jerks!

 

[jyw003]

This thread was so interesting I took 30 mins to read all the comments haha...what a good way to use my study time...

btw! kanye "apologized" on tv, but swift stated kanye didn't try to contact her lol...oh..and did anyone hear obama's comment on kanye???

 

[USArmyDoc]

This thread was so interesting I took 30 mins to read all the comments haha...what a good way to use my study time...

btw! kanye "apologized" on tv, but swift stated kanye didn't try to contact her lol...oh..and did anyone hear obama's comment on kanye???

Glad we can entertain you....Good luck with studying

 

[gsinccom]

a friend of mine who just finished her MD at the University of Arizona said that first and second years there were always far more pharmacy students studying in the library than med students.

however, their 3rd year is pretty brutal as far as rotations go. We have some tough rotations, but overall, ours are cake in comparison.

yeah I've heard too that some of the MD 3rd year rotations are very time consuming (i.e., 60-80 hours a week).

 

[powertoold]

I don't think pharmacists can "help" provide primary care. Most of the pharmacists who post in this forum are likely to be more motivated than the rest of the population. In reality, many pharmacists don't know much of anything about diagnosis or even when to refer... In many cases, pharmacists will just say "go see your doctor."

We just aren't exposed to enough situations where we use pathophysio, so over time, we'd forget our information. I bet there are maybe 1% of pharmacists that could actually provide "help" with primary care.

 

[Priapism321]

I don't think pharmacists can "help" provide primary care. Most of the pharmacists who post in this forum are likely to be more motivated than the rest of the population. In reality, many pharmacists don't know much of anything about diagnosis or even when to refer... In many cases, pharmacists will just say "go see your doctor."

We just aren't exposed to enough situations where we use pathophysio, so over time, we'd forget our information. I bet there are maybe 1% of pharmacists that could actually provide "help" with primary care.

Interesting statements from someone of your "status." What exactly do you mean by "we"?

 

[MountainPharmD]

I don't think pharmacists can "help" provide primary care. Most of the pharmacists who post in this forum are likely to be more motivated than the rest of the population. In reality, many pharmacists don't know much of anything about diagnosis or even when to refer... In many cases, pharmacists will just say "go see your doctor."

We just aren't exposed to enough situations where we use pathophysio, so over time, we'd forget our information. I bet there are maybe 1% of pharmacists that could actually provide "help" with primary care.

You are pre-pharmacy so I do not expect you to understand or to know. Pharmacists are in a perfect position to help alleviate the strain on primary care physicians. Think medication therapy management, disease state management (diabetes, cholesterol, anticoagulation.), patient counseling and immunizations. We are the most accesable healthcare providers. Why not take advantage of it?

We already help to alleviate the strain. You think primary care docs are swamped now. What do you think would happen if I told every person who came in with every random question to call thier doctor? They would never get anything done.

 

[USArmyDoc]

You are pre-pharmacy so I do not expect you to understand or to know. Pharmacists are in a perfect position to help alleviate the strain on primary care physicians. Think medication therapy management, disease state management (diabetes, cholesterol, anticoagulation.), patient counseling and immunizations. We are the most accesable healthcare providers. Why not take advantage of it?

We already help to alleviate the strain. You think primary care docs are swamped now. What do you think would happen if I told every person who came in with every random question to call thier doctor? They would never get anything done.

I think anything that makes the healthcare system work better than great. However, remember we are all trained differently to do different things. I think thats reasonable to accept.

 

[Quiksilver]

Truth is there used to be a difference but no longer. Accepted to 5 DO 1MD school....attended DO upon advice of multiple MD's and the MD school was not good geographically. At that time, it would not of been wise to attend it for personal reason.

MCAT and GPA's.....yes still lower but not for long....average DMU gpa and MCAT is 3.6 and 28 MCAT....PCOM 29 & 3.7 on par with some MD schools.

I have PLENTY of kids in my class with 30+ MCATs that chose DO mostly based on geography and whether or not they liked the school. It really isn't exactly like the way it used to be, but yes there are plenty of students there because of lower GPA's and MCAT's.

Good luck with your studies and remember to just keep your ego's in check...I know I try to do the samething because I value everyone's education especially those that are willing to TEACH and not criticize. I have a lot of fun working with pharm students....I had one patient with idiopathic thrombocyotpenia and they asked me the pathophysiology behind the disease. I really enjoyed teaching them and then I asked them their opinions on treatment. I really enjoyed their input and willingness to teach me.

It is ashame medicine is full of a lot of jerks!

Amen as I believe its how you handle yourself in practice that makes you a good clinician, pharmacist or whatever. Schooling is JUST an introduction to the world that becomes your career, what you do beyond that will help you with your reputation. The letters after your name mean nothing other then you know the basics.

 

[Sparda29]

Amen as I believe its how you handle yourself in practice that makes you a good clinician, pharmacist or whatever. Schooling is JUST an introduction to the world that becomes your career, what you do beyond that will help you with your reputation. The letters after your name mean nothing other then you know the basics.

I agree. I like to think of it like this.

Before you graduate pharmacy school = Padawan Learner
After graduating pharmacy school = Jedi Knight
Years, and years, and years of experience and gaining knowledge = Jedi Master

 

[MustLoveDrugs]

I don't think pharmacists can "help" provide primary care. Most of the pharmacists who post in this forum are likely to be more motivated than the rest of the population. In reality, many pharmacists don't know much of anything about diagnosis or even when to refer... In many cases, pharmacists will just say "go see your doctor."

We just aren't exposed to enough situations where we use pathophysio, so over time, we'd forget our information. I bet there are maybe 1% of pharmacists that could actually provide "help" with primary care.

I agree with MountainPharmD. That said, brevity is not my forte.

As a VA employee, it is disheartening to read that a pre-pharmacy student doesn't believe he or she can make a difference in the primary care sector. I understand that, as a pre-pharmacy student, you cannot be expected to know about all the opportunities your degree will afford you. Heck, I learn about new uses for my PharmD every day on SDN. All I ask is that you keep an open mind as you progress in your pharmacy education, and take pride in your future profession. It is important to understand the variability within your own profession, not just the variability between healthcare professions.

Drug store pharmacists, for example, have to decide between recommending OTC products and referring patients to their physicians everyday. Oftentimes, these decisions are made with limited information about the patient's PMH or use of medications from other pharmacies. A great deal of time and effort has to be spent assessing the patient's symptomatic complaints and desired outcomes while making the best use of their time and money. A pharmacist's ability to identify those patients who would benefit from a physician follow-up is a skill taught in pharmacy school. When I was a summer intern with Walgreens, a group of interns got together and initiated a traveling clinic. Our group advertised the clinic and went to a different intern's store one day each week. We offered free BG testing, free BP checks and free reading materials on diabetes, HTN and healthy living. Looking back, it was a fun way to get to know the other interns, but it was also a great way to use the skills we were taught in pharmacy school. Pricking your finger once in lab is much different than counseling a new diabetic on the importance of SMBG and what his diagnosis really means. We didn't diagnose or treat per se, but we raised awareness, answered questions and made ourselves accessible to the public. We recommended that some patients with concerning numbers follow up with their physicians, and I felt good about the difference I made at the end of each day. Even today, I don't think my saying "go see your doctor" is a sign of laziness... I think it's a sign that I, as a licensed pharmacist, know the limitations of my profession.

As for hospital pharmacy, I may sound like a broken record, but pharmacists in the primary care clinics at my hospital are responsible for following up on patients with unmet DM, HTN, DLD, anticoagulation, CHF and polypharmacy needs. In some cases, the attending is a physician. In other cases, it is a pharmacist. Ambulatory care pharmacists "help" by monitoring relevant labs and vitals, performing medication reconciliation, answering patient questions and, yes, referring patients to their PCP. But, the patients we see are referred by their PCP, so I feel like it is a give and take relationship. Our pharmacy clinics are full everyday, and I can't imagine that we would continue to get referrals and funding if we weren't improving primary care outcomes. I can see a patient once a month, whereas the physician can probably only see the same patient once every 3 months. It's not the physician's fault, but in my mind it makes sense to let me titrate medications in between doctor appointments so patients are appropriately monitored and controlled on their drug regimens... And so the physician can focus his time on the patient's CC of "it burns when I pee" instead of spending 5 minutes deciding whether to titrate the metoprolol or lisinopril.

 

[StaviZFingerZ]

Yawn....

 

[womp]

With additional rigorous training, the best and most dedicated pharmacists can DIAGNOSIS AND PRESCRIBE.

Other than for your personal ambition, why do you think this is a good idea? Back in the 1980s, when China was still mostly a Communist country with a GDP the size of New Jersey, pharmacists could prescribe non-OTC drugs that they then sell. But today, pharmacies in China generally require prescriptions from doctors in order to sell non-OTC drugs, much like in the US. The main reason is to prevent the inherent conflict of interest and greater possibility of fraud involved in the earlier system of combining prescribing and dispensing. However, there is still a lot of conflict of interest going on in China, as hospital pharmacies (by extension, the hospital) get a significant cut from medicine prescribed by the doctors.

If pharmaceutical companies aren't allowed to buy lunches anymore for physicians, doesn't it make sense that pharmacists should not be able to prescribe the drugs they sell? The entire reason for the old tradition of separating diagnosis/prescribing with dispensing in the United States was to prevent this conflict of interest among doctors. Are you guys suggesting that somehow pharmacists are of a higher moral character than doctors that they should be exceptions to this?

 

[medicalCPA]

I agree with MountainPharmD. That said, brevity is not my forte.

As a VA employee, it is disheartening to read that a pre-pharmacy student doesn't believe he or she can make a difference in the primary care sector. I understand that, as a pre-pharmacy student, you cannot be expected to know about all the opportunities your degree will afford you. Heck, I learn about new uses for my PharmD every day on SDN. All I ask is that you keep an open mind as you progress in your pharmacy education, and take pride in your future profession. It is important to understand the variability within your own profession, not just the variability between healthcare professions.

Drug store pharmacists, for example, have to decide between recommending OTC products and referring patients to their physicians everyday. Oftentimes, these decisions are made with limited information about the patient's PMH or use of medications from other pharmacies. A great deal of time and effort has to be spent assessing the patient's symptomatic complaints and desired outcomes while making the best use of their time and money. A pharmacist's ability to identify those patients who would benefit from a physician follow-up is a skill taught in pharmacy school. When I was a summer intern with Walgreens, a group of interns got together and initiated a traveling clinic. Our group advertised the clinic and went to a different intern's store one day each week. We offered free BG testing, free BP checks and free reading materials on diabetes, HTN and healthy living. Looking back, it was a fun way to get to know the other interns, but it was also a great way to use the skills we were taught in pharmacy school. Pricking your finger once in lab is much different than counseling a new diabetic on the importance of SMBG and what his diagnosis really means. We didn't diagnose or treat per se, but we raised awareness, answered questions and made ourselves accessible to the public. We recommended that some patients with concerning numbers follow up with their physicians, and I felt good about the difference I made at the end of each day. Even today, I don't think my saying "go see your doctor" is a sign of laziness... I think it's a sign that I, as a licensed pharmacist, know the limitations of my profession.

As for hospital pharmacy, I may sound like a broken record, but pharmacists in the primary care clinics at my hospital are responsible for following up on patients with unmet DM, HTN, DLD, anticoagulation, CHF and polypharmacy needs. In some cases, the attending is a physician. In other cases, it is a pharmacist. Ambulatory care pharmacists “help” by monitoring relevant labs and vitals, performing medication reconciliation, answering patient questions and, yes, referring patients to their PCP. But, the patients we see are referred by their PCP, so I feel like it is a give and take relationship. Our pharmacy clinics are full everyday, and I can’t imagine that we would continue to get referrals and funding if we weren’t improving primary care outcomes. I can see a patient once a month, whereas the physician can probably only see the same patient once every 3 months. It’s not the physician’s fault, but in my mind it makes sense to let me titrate medications in between doctor appointments so patients are appropriately monitored and controlled on their drug regimens... And so the physician can focus his time on the patient's CC of "it burns when I pee" instead of spending 5 minutes deciding whether to titrate the metoprolol or lisinopril.

This has got to be one of the most well-thought out posts I have ever had the privilege of reading on SDN.

 

[USArmyDoc]

I don't think pharmacists can "help" provide primary care. Most of the pharmacists who post in this forum are likely to be more motivated than the rest of the population. In reality, many pharmacists don't know much of anything about diagnosis or even when to refer... In many cases, pharmacists will just say "go see your doctor."

We just aren't exposed to enough situations where we use pathophysio, so over time, we'd forget our information. I bet there are maybe 1% of pharmacists that could actually provide "help" with primary care.

I think everyone can help.

 

[Jetninjin]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I gotta say:

First off - just because someone's status is "prepharm" doesn't mean that they are ignorant. It could mean they got into pharmacy school and haven't bothered to change it. It could mean they have spent years working in a pharmacy, are looking to become pharmacists and are making observations based on their personal experience of years spent as techs in a retail environment. I know people who fit both these situations.

And yes my status is prepharm. And no, I am not talking about myself (bc I'm sure some Sherlock is going to astutely point that out).

It's kinda funny that the first half of this thread is a flame war because an MD resident or two gave pharmacists a condescending lil pat on the head ... and now some of those shocked and appalled pharmacists are doing the same to someone else.

I'm sure there's a life lesson in that somewhere lol.

 

[Quiksilver]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I gotta say:

First off - just because someone's status is "prepharm" doesn't mean that they are ignorant. It could mean they got into pharmacy school and haven't bothered to change it. It could mean they have spent years working in a pharmacy, are looking to become pharmacists and are making observations based on their personal experience of years spent as techs in a retail environment. I know people who fit both these situations.

And yes my status is prepharm. And no, I am not talking about myself (bc I'm sure some Sherlock is going to astutely point that out).

It's kinda funny that the first half of this thread is a flame war because an MD resident or two gave pharmacists a condescending lil pat on the head ... and now some of those shocked and appalled pharmacists are doing the same to someone else.

I'm sure there's a life lesson in that somewhere lol.

at the same time one has to use this to learn. Some people on these boards are doing amazing things with their degree. They have found some unique niches that they practice in. To see some pharmacy student or pre-pharmer who is a part of this section of the forum not noticing these things is a little disheartening. There exists a great ability to learn something on here new every day.

the other thing is if you cannot take criticism for being too narrow minded or not thinking properly then you should probably rethink a career choice. I mean this with a great deal of respect but there will be times where you will be ripped to shreds, whether that be a preceptor, professor or an exam. It will happen. Open yourself to accepting and learning from your mistakes and your weaknesses.

 

[Zrchrn]

guys great topic, I'm gonna let you finish but I just wanted to say that Beyonce had one of the best videos of all time.

 

[type b pharmD]

guys great topic, I'm gonna let you finish but I just wanted to say that Beyonce had one of the best videos of all time.

i was waiting for this to come up!! AWESOME

 

[MountainPharmD]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I gotta say:

First off - just because someone's status is "prepharm" doesn't mean that they are ignorant. It could mean they got into pharmacy school and haven't bothered to change it. It could mean they have spent years working in a pharmacy, are looking to become pharmacists l.

I know for damn sure it means they are not a pharmacist. Therefore they do not need to be making comments or suggestions concerning things they know nothing about.

 

[delano2000]

guys great topic, I'm gonna let you finish but I just wanted to say that Beyonce had one of the best videos of all time.

Classic!

 

[Sparda29]

Classic!

LOL! Everything seems to be happening with that quote now. I mean, chances are he'll probably show up at Patrick Swayze's funeral and be like, "Michael Jackson had a better death."

Speaking of which, I'm surprised that Patrick Swayze's death has gotten barely any attention. He was frikkin awesome in Point Break and The Outsiders.

 

[Jetninjin]

I know for damn sure it means they are not a pharmacist. Therefore they do not need to be making comments or suggestions concerning things they know nothing about.

Fine, then you can shush re diagnoses and disease treatment - after all, as was pointed out on the first couple of pages, you are no MD and should likewise "know your place" lol .... >.^

Like I said, life lesson, and wheee there it goes over your head.

 

[delano2000]

LOL! Everything seems to be happening with that quote now. I mean, chances are he'll probably show up at Patrick Swayze's funeral and be like, "Michael Jackson had a better death."

Speaking of which, I'm surprised that Patrick Swayze's death has gotten barely any attention. He was frikkin awesome in Point Break and The Outsiders.

Hey you can't fault the guy for speaking his mind. That is what makes him so unique and interesting.

In regards to Patrick Swayze, I found out he died about 2 days after his death. Really sad. I liked him in Ghost.

 

[FruitFly]

I was definitely waiting to hear him make mention of pharmacists in that statement. Pharmacists are like the fieldgoal kickers of health care. They points with the game on the line and get the least credit.

 

[womp]

I was definitely waiting to hear him make mention of pharmacists in that statement. Pharmacists are like the fieldgoal kickers of health care. They points with the game on the line and get the least credit.

Field goal kickers also blow it for the team sometimes.

 

[nlax30]

LOL! Everything seems to be happening with that quote now. I mean, chances are he'll probably show up at Patrick Swayze's funeral and be like, "Michael Jackson had a better death."

Speaking of which, I'm surprised that Patrick Swayze's death has gotten barely any attention. He was frikkin awesome in Point Break and The Outsiders.

Hahaha, I take it you haven't seen some of the kanye photoshop images floating around? There's already one of him with the quote saying that exact thing to Swayze.

 

[confettiflyer]

Field goal kickers also blow it for the team sometimes.

Whose fault is that...the kicker, or the team that had 60 minutes and let it come down to 3 points or less?

 

[womp]

Whose fault is that...the kicker, or the team that had 60 minutes and let it come down to 3 points or less?

The kicker obviously. That's his sole job. He failed.