Biden to forgive 10k to everyone and leave us RPH out, we must unite

[JustFillIt]

Im sorry...probably not the popular opinion....but I went to school and paid back my loans. I lived poor when I got out of school. Didnt live high off the hog while I was in school.

What year did you graduate?

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[sunnyandseventytwo]

Many walgreens locations here in South Florida also remain closed or operating under reduced hours . I left the company after almost a decade about 2 months ago and now work from home. As far as I’m concerned , starting rates for new grads was , until just a few months, $46-$47 per hour . A few weeks ago i heard rates for new grads have now increased to $55 per hour likely due to the desperation the company is experiencing . It’s simple supply and demand . Only a foolish and arrogant American corporation would steadfastly refuse to raise salaries when they need a licensed employee to maintain a certain department up and running . In regards to the $50 per hour not being a big deal anymore, this is true in 2022 because of inflation and the general increase in cost of living . However, in the grand of scheme of things and when you consider both median and average income in the US, $100k or more is still significantly higher than what most people bring . The median household income may be $65k per year accounting for two people or more working but just 1 pharmacist making $110k a year is already making more than a typical household . Suppose 1 pharmacist makes $110k and a significant other brings in an average $35-$40k per year . That brings up the total household income to $145-$150k a year - this is more than double the typical household income in the US. Will you be living like a wealthy family on such a household income or even just one rph on $110k? Absolutely not but you are still doing much better than 80-90% of the US population . You want to know real problem ? The problem is Americans often want a large , spacious home, 2 or 3 cars , AND the standard 2-3 children . I mean come on you want all that and then complain your income is inadequate? Pharmacists make plenty of money but if you 2 or more children , as most Americans CHOOSE to have , then yes you will feel your 6 figure income is not enough . People complain about the cost of food and let me tell you I am cooking more often now and I personally don’t find food to be so prohibitively expensive . I spent $170 for 15 days of food just for myself and get eggs, produce, fish, meat, etc . That’s not too bad . But if you CHOOSE to have more than 1 child then i can see how food is now more expensive because you have multiple people to feed, including yourself. Don’t tell me $110-$120 k for 1 rph and perhaps $40k from a spouse is not enough . It IS enough if you try to reason from a financial point of view . Some basic lessons and please no offense to those who have 2 or more children - 1) stop being a breeder . It’s 2022 and with how life is these days this isn’t the time to burden yourself with both responsibilities and extra expenses from multiple children . Have 1 child, not 2 or 3 or 4 . That Europe trip as husband, wife, and 1 child is now more attainable . 2 or more kids ? Suddenly the cost is prohibitive and your vacation will be to Walt Disney World and dining at Denny’s instead of something nicer . 2) Stop spending so much on homes or dreaming about expensive houses . Do not make a “God” out of your home . Get something reasonable, simple and even home maintenance will be less expensive. Choose an expensive home and your hard earned RPh salary will flee from you on plumbing , flooring , or whatever other expense comes up . 3) Find a spouse who is frugal if you can . Be on the same page about babies, home ownership and finances in general . Control your salary and don’t let societal standards dictate how you run your life . I am 36, my girl is 23 and we have discusses just about everything from children to finances and everything . She used to have the mentality of 2 or 3 children and I have destroyed that dream because of the 3 general rules I gave above , rule 1 is the most important . I LOVE to travel and in my years in retail I was blessed enough to be avle to afford traveling all over the world by prioritizing , not breeding, living simply . I have been to multiple countries on every continent and enjoyed it with my pharmacist income . And how ? Because pharmacists still make great money . Its all about priorities . I have pharmacists asking me how I do this or that and they all whine ant complain they can’t afford anything and when you inquire further you realize they have a big home, more than 1 car, and multiple mouths to feed . That was their priority in life and they are living their dream so why complain ? Please don’t say $100k is nothing when 90% of the population is living on FAR LESS. Those NYC sanitation workers pulling in $300k? The cleaning people making $38 per hour ? It may be true but one thing you guys are forgetting is that those few people may be making those salaries but they have no degree to fall upon if they lose those jobs . The cleaning person being paid $38 per hour or the sanitation worker pulling in 6 figures may lose their jobs and end up having to take another job that only pays them $20 per hour since they lack a degree . At least as a pharmacist you may lose your job but you know because of your degree you can get another job and make similar money - those other people wirh no education may lose their coveted position and need to take a huge pay cut to get another job in an unrelated field. Just something to think about …

You’ve got a real fixation on kids. They really don’t cost that much. All those “it costs $300k to raise a child until she’s 18” studies are crap. They always include lodging. I have a 3 bedroom house; I’d have a 3 bedroom house (minimum) regardless of the number of children I have. I would not be renting out rooms in my house even if I had no children. People are broke because they buy expensive cars and eat out too much. End of story.

 

[mentos]

Im sorry...probably not the popular opinion....but I went to school and paid back my loans. I lived poor when I got out of school. Didnt live high off the hog while I was in school.

Those of us who paid back our loans are suckers.

 

[mentos]

You’ve got a real fixation on kids. They really don’t cost that much. All those “it costs $300k to raise a child until she’s 18” studies are crap. They always include lodging. I have a 3 bedroom house; I’d have a 3 bedroom house (minimum) regardless of the number of children I have. I would not be renting out rooms in my house even if I had no children. People are broke because they buy expensive cars and eat out too much. End of story.

Uh, childcare? Not everyone has the luxury of grandparents to watch their kids for free.

 

[randompharm]

Many walgreens locations here in South Florida also remain closed or operating under reduced hours . I left the company after almost a decade about 2 months ago and now work from home. As far as I’m concerned , starting rates for new grads was , until just a few months, $46-$47 per hour . A few weeks ago i heard rates for new grads have now increased to $55 per hour likely due to the desperation the company is experiencing . It’s simple supply and demand . Only a foolish and arrogant American corporation would steadfastly refuse to raise salaries when they need a licensed employee to maintain a certain department up and running . In regards to the $50 per hour not being a big deal anymore, this is true in 2022 because of inflation and the general increase in cost of living . However, in the grand of scheme of things and when you consider both median and average income in the US, $100k or more is still significantly higher than what most people bring . The median household income may be $65k per year accounting for two people or more working but just 1 pharmacist making $110k a year is already making more than a typical household . Suppose 1 pharmacist makes $110k and a significant other brings in an average $35-$40k per year . That brings up the total household income to $145-$150k a year - this is more than double the typical household income in the US. Will you be living like a wealthy family on such a household income or even just one rph on $110k? Absolutely not but you are still doing much better than 80-90% of the US population . You want to know real problem ? The problem is Americans often want a large , spacious home, 2 or 3 cars , AND the standard 2-3 children . I mean come on you want all that and then complain your income is inadequate? Pharmacists make plenty of money but if you 2 or more children , as most Americans CHOOSE to have , then yes you will feel your 6 figure income is not enough . People complain about the cost of food and let me tell you I am cooking more often now and I personally don’t find food to be so prohibitively expensive . I spent $170 for 15 days of food just for myself and get eggs, produce, fish, meat, etc . That’s not too bad . But if you CHOOSE to have more than 1 child then i can see how food is now more expensive because you have multiple people to feed, including yourself. Don’t tell me $110-$120 k for 1 rph and perhaps $40k from a spouse is not enough . It IS enough if you try to reason from a financial point of view . Some basic lessons and please no offense to those who have 2 or more children - 1) stop being a breeder . It’s 2022 and with how life is these days this isn’t the time to burden yourself with both responsibilities and extra expenses from multiple children . Have 1 child, not 2 or 3 or 4 . That Europe trip as husband, wife, and 1 child is now more attainable . 2 or more kids ? Suddenly the cost is prohibitive and your vacation will be to Walt Disney World and dining at Denny’s instead of something nicer . 2) Stop spending so much on homes or dreaming about expensive houses . Do not make a “God” out of your home . Get something reasonable, simple and even home maintenance will be less expensive. Choose an expensive home and your hard earned RPh salary will flee from you on plumbing , flooring , or whatever other expense comes up . 3) Find a spouse who is frugal if you can . Be on the same page about babies, home ownership and finances in general . Control your salary and don’t let societal standards dictate how you run your life . I am 36, my girl is 23 and we have discusses just about everything from children to finances and everything . She used to have the mentality of 2 or 3 children and I have destroyed that dream because of the 3 general rules I gave above , rule 1 is the most important . I LOVE to travel and in my years in retail I was blessed enough to be avle to afford traveling all over the world by prioritizing , not breeding, living simply . I have been to multiple countries on every continent and enjoyed it with my pharmacist income . And how ? Because pharmacists still make great money . Its all about priorities . I have pharmacists asking me how I do this or that and they all whine ant complain they can’t afford anything and when you inquire further you realize they have a big home, more than 1 car, and multiple mouths to feed . That was their priority in life and they are living their dream so why complain ? Please don’t say $100k is nothing when 90% of the population is living on FAR LESS. Those NYC sanitation workers pulling in $300k? The cleaning people making $38 per hour ? It may be true but one thing you guys are forgetting is that those few people may be making those salaries but they have no degree to fall upon if they lose those jobs . The cleaning person being paid $38 per hour or the sanitation worker pulling in 6 figures may lose their jobs and end up having to take another job that only pays them $20 per hour since they lack a degree . At least as a pharmacist you may lose your job but you know because of your degree you can get another job and make similar money - those other people wirh no education may lose their coveted position and need to take a huge pay cut to get another job in an unrelated field. Just something to think about …

But those people don’t have 6-10 years of schooling, opportunity loss, 150-200k in debt, so they are likely living far better than most pharmacists and assuming equality of being as frugal they will have as much savings without the aforementioned burdens. Pharmacists CAN and HAVE lost their jobs too, unable to get similar jobs for long stretches of time, it’s extremely common. This will become apparent when loans resume in a few months and the current “shortages” (just pharmacists not willing to work because they don’t have the burden of loans) are going to be no more and they will start taking 35/hr position when they have 10s of thousands of others to compete with. Also, it is rare new PharmDs are getting 110k (maybe in Cali but that’s 75k anywhere else), as new starting wages as you stated are 50/hr (45-50) and with 28-32 hours and decreasing. Lastly, 110k is very little money when you consider you gave up 6-10 years and now have 150-200k in loans (some even have 300k). You would be happier and live off better (financially and emotionally) having started another job and worked your way up.

 

[randompharm]

You’ve got a real fixation on kids. They really don’t cost that much. All those “it costs $300k to raise a child until she’s 18” studies are crap. They always include lodging. I have a 3 bedroom house; I’d have a 3 bedroom house (minimum) regardless of the number of children I have. I would not be renting out rooms in my house even if I had no children. People are broke because they buy expensive cars and eat out too much. End of story.

This.

 

[mentos]

Many walgreens locations here in South Florida also remain closed or operating under reduced hours . I left the company after almost a decade about 2 months ago and now work from home. As far as I’m concerned , starting rates for new grads was , until just a few months, $46-$47 per hour . A few weeks ago i heard rates for new grads have now increased to $55 per hour likely due to the desperation the company is experiencing . It’s simple supply and demand . Only a foolish and arrogant American corporation would steadfastly refuse to raise salaries when they need a licensed employee to maintain a certain department up and running . In regards to the $50 per hour not being a big deal anymore, this is true in 2022 because of inflation and the general increase in cost of living . However, in the grand of scheme of things and when you consider both median and average income in the US, $100k or more is still significantly higher than what most people bring . The median household income may be $65k per year accounting for two people or more working but just 1 pharmacist making $110k a year is already making more than a typical household . Suppose 1 pharmacist makes $110k and a significant other brings in an average $35-$40k per year . That brings up the total household income to $145-$150k a year - this is more than double the typical household income in the US. Will you be living like a wealthy family on such a household income or even just one rph on $110k? Absolutely not but you are still doing much better than 80-90% of the US population . You want to know real problem ? The problem is Americans often want a large , spacious home, 2 or 3 cars , AND the standard 2-3 children . I mean come on you want all that and then complain your income is inadequate? Pharmacists make plenty of money but if you 2 or more children , as most Americans CHOOSE to have , then yes you will feel your 6 figure income is not enough . People complain about the cost of food and let me tell you I am cooking more often now and I personally don’t find food to be so prohibitively expensive . I spent $170 for 15 days of food just for myself and get eggs, produce, fish, meat, etc . That’s not too bad . But if you CHOOSE to have more than 1 child then i can see how food is now more expensive because you have multiple people to feed, including yourself. Don’t tell me $110-$120 k for 1 rph and perhaps $40k from a spouse is not enough . It IS enough if you try to reason from a financial point of view . Some basic lessons and please no offense to those who have 2 or more children - 1) stop being a breeder . It’s 2022 and with how life is these days this isn’t the time to burden yourself with both responsibilities and extra expenses from multiple children . Have 1 child, not 2 or 3 or 4 . That Europe trip as husband, wife, and 1 child is now more attainable . 2 or more kids ? Suddenly the cost is prohibitive and your vacation will be to Walt Disney World and dining at Denny’s instead of something nicer . 2) Stop spending so much on homes or dreaming about expensive houses . Do not make a “God” out of your home . Get something reasonable, simple and even home maintenance will be less expensive. Choose an expensive home and your hard earned RPh salary will flee from you on plumbing , flooring , or whatever other expense comes up . 3) Find a spouse who is frugal if you can . Be on the same page about babies, home ownership and finances in general . Control your salary and don’t let societal standards dictate how you run your life . I am 36, my girl is 23 and we have discusses just about everything from children to finances and everything . She used to have the mentality of 2 or 3 children and I have destroyed that dream because of the 3 general rules I gave above , rule 1 is the most important . I LOVE to travel and in my years in retail I was blessed enough to be avle to afford traveling all over the world by prioritizing , not breeding, living simply . I have been to multiple countries on every continent and enjoyed it with my pharmacist income . And how ? Because pharmacists still make great money . Its all about priorities . I have pharmacists asking me how I do this or that and they all whine ant complain they can’t afford anything and when you inquire further you realize they have a big home, more than 1 car, and multiple mouths to feed . That was their priority in life and they are living their dream so why complain ? Please don’t say $100k is nothing when 90% of the population is living on FAR LESS. Those NYC sanitation workers pulling in $300k? The cleaning people making $38 per hour ? It may be true but one thing you guys are forgetting is that those few people may be making those salaries but they have no degree to fall upon if they lose those jobs . The cleaning person being paid $38 per hour or the sanitation worker pulling in 6 figures may lose their jobs and end up having to take another job that only pays them $20 per hour since they lack a degree . At least as a pharmacist you may lose your job but you know because of your degree you can get another job and make similar money - those other people wirh no education may lose their coveted position and need to take a huge pay cut to get another job in an unrelated field. Just something to think about …

You should use paragraphs.

Agree with most of this except the last part. A PharmD is pretty useless outside of pharmacy. Not versatile at all.

 

[mentos]

If our salary is now equivalent to $25-$30 per hour , that means that 90% of the US population is basically earning minimum wage . Point is we ARE still ahead even if our salaries are no longer high and mighty . Also keep in mind people will ALWAYS complain no matter how much they earn because by nature people spend more as income increases . I guarantee if you make $250k within 1 year you and most others will feel its nothing these days . More children , a bigger home , “college funds for the kids”- all unnecessary expenses that make pharmacists and others feel destitute . I would say its time to learn how to say “NO” more often to societal expectations and as men, start learning how to say NO to our women too , bro . I feel in relationships men these days don’t have the balls to simply tell their women “no” . “No, babe, we are not going to buy that grill or get that car .” “No, son, you’re 18 years old and pay for your own education and take out your loans and take care of yourself .” When you are a “yes” man, you become a broke man in modern day America . You can please your wife, gf, whatever but also learn to say “NO”. The word “NO” is such a beautiful and powerful word and will do wonders for your finances . Big home with pool I know i cant afford ? No . Another car ? No. Getting a car for my 16 year old when he or she hasnt earned it ? No . $20k engagement ring from Tiffany’s for the honey at home ? No . A massive college fund for a future 18 year old son or daughter who may not even value education ? No (and save it for your old age instead). And all this comes down to rule 3- frugal partner /spouse . And here’s rule 4 that I didn’t mention in my other post - Think about yourself more/be more selfish instead of catering to the whims and desires of family, friends, women, society .

Agreed with most of this but would you really say no to family? It sounds like your family is healthy and well off but for many people they are not.

 

[Dred Pirate]

two points:
1. Like I have said before, without any sort of collegte/student loan reform, blanket forgiveness of loans just kicks the can down the road and doesn't solve the underlying problem. The college will just keep making money hand over fist.

2. There are already several types of loan forgivens programs available for pharmacists. I have zero issue whatsoever making this type of random 10k forgiveness income based. Most of us are still paid well more than the average worker in the US - yes we have pretty large loans (see point #1), but if you are doing an income based repayment plan, will 10k make a noticeable difference in your monthly payment?

 

[VA77]

The main thing is not the forgiveness but getting these colleges and universities under control. When I started working for a college many years ago I didn't have a clue how they set tuition and was shocked they could set the COA to anything and TitleIV i.e. taxpayers picked up the tab. I was at an executive meeting with members of schools and ACPE and one of them literally said, 'Starting a pharmacy school is easier than running a casino and the profit margin is higher'. I didn't know what he meant at the time but boy do I do now. I'm scared how many other schools other than pharmacy have done this and I don't see the majority of this debt being paid off. Either students will have some type of forgiveness now or in time or they will just die.

 

[Pharmgrlnxdor]

I'm betting on option number 3.

 

[DogRescuer]

$50 an hour is one hell of a lot of money to 99.9% of humans on the planet. The median wage is like $18 an hour for full time workers in the US. If you can't make it off of $50 an hour, even with student loans, you either have a spending problem or very specific needs for living that others do not. If you live in extreme cost of living areas, I'd move away ASAP because it's just not worth it. You can live in a small town with good amenities and a short drive from a major city like Allentown, PA. Houses are super cheap, pay is $65/hr+. In fact, they are paying bonuses. CVS can't find enough people to work up there. 2 hours from NYC, 2 hours from Philly.

Cleaning ladies around here make like $14 an hour. Just off of a cursory search on Indeed. Where the hell are cleaning workers making $38/hr?

$140/4 hours a week, boston suburbs (also she works like a dog and deserves every penny)

 

[snooper]

And we haven't even started discussing why in most other countries, not only is higher education tuition free (incl. graduate/professional studies) but also payment of living expenses and low cost health insurance.

 

[Dred Pirate]

And we haven't even started discussing why in most other countries, not only is higher education tuition free (incl. graduate/professional studies) but also payment of living expenses and low cost health insurance.

at the risk of completely derailing this thread, I agree. "The United States is the greatest country in the world!" unless you can't afford the greatness. We have one of the largest gini coefficients (maybe the highest) outside of the developing world

 

[sunnyandseventytwo]

And we haven't even started discussing why in most other countries, not only is higher education tuition free (incl. graduate/professional studies) but also payment of living expenses and low cost health insurance.

at the risk of completely derailing this thread, I agree. "The United States is the greatest country in the world!" unless you can't afford the greatness. We have one of the largest gini coefficients (maybe the highest) outside of the developing world

To be fair, university is not free in most countries, it is free in some countries...and very few still pay living expenses for student. University is certainly cheaper just about everywhere outside the US. The main difference, though is access. Anyone can attend a college somewhere in the US. In Europe, your education/career path is likely determined before you enter [what we call] high school. While it may be difficult to study/work yourself out of poverty in the US, it’s pretty close to impossible to do so in Europe.

 

[sfachine]

To be fair, university is not free in most countries, it is free in some countries...and very few still pay living expenses for student. University is certainly cheaper just about everywhere outside the US. The main difference, though is access. Anyone can attend a college somewhere in the US. In Europe, your education/career path is likely determined before you enter [what we call] high school. While it may be difficult to study/work yourself out of poverty in the US, it’s pretty close to impossible to do so in Europe.

Nothing is "free"when it involves the government.It means someone else is paying for it.

 

[PharmaSex]

Guys like us - the early 2000s 50/hour was a lot. The new generation coming up - 50/hour is okay.

It's called inflation. The pharm school tuition rates back then were dirt ass cheap. Now they are like 40K/year and the average rate keeps getting lower while everyday costs (and licensing fees) keep getting higher

 

[PharmaSex]

Think about yourself more/be more selfish instead of catering to the whims and desires of family, friends, women, society .

Don't say no too much or they will think you are a cheap ass. I have a brother that makes 180K a year and he is extremely cheap and selfish -- I'd leave him lying in the street bleeding out and fed to a pack of dogs if it meant risking myself in any way for him as I know he wouldn't even pick up the phone at an inconvenient hour if I needed aid.

Im sorry...probably not the popular opinion....but I went to school and paid back my loans. I lived poor when I got out of school. Didnt live high off the hog while I was in school.

How much you owe? I owe over 350K from an initial post-grad balance of previously 280K. The interest really ****s you and yet I still pay an f-ton in federal taxes. Unpopular opinion -- I deserve my forgiveness for my past and future contributions to the IRS balance sheet.

 

[GrandTheftAutumn]

Many walgreens locations here in South Florida also remain closed or operating under reduced hours . I left the company after almost a decade about 2 months ago and now work from home. As far as I’m concerned , starting rates for new grads was , until just a few months, $46-$47 per hour . A few weeks ago i heard rates for new grads have now increased to $55 per hour likely due to the desperation the company is experiencing . It’s simple supply and demand . Only a foolish and arrogant American corporation would steadfastly refuse to raise salaries when they need a licensed employee to maintain a certain department up and running . In regards to the $50 per hour not being a big deal anymore, this is true in 2022 because of inflation and the general increase in cost of living . However, in the grand of scheme of things and when you consider both median and average income in the US, $100k or more is still significantly higher than what most people bring . The median household income may be $65k per year accounting for two people or more working but just 1 pharmacist making $110k a year is already making more than a typical household . Suppose 1 pharmacist makes $110k and a significant other brings in an average $35-$40k per year . That brings up the total household income to $145-$150k a year - this is more than double the typical household income in the US. Will you be living like a wealthy family on such a household income or even just one rph on $110k? Absolutely not but you are still doing much better than 80-90% of the US population . You want to know real problem ? The problem is Americans often want a large , spacious home, 2 or 3 cars , AND the standard 2-3 children . I mean come on you want all that and then complain your income is inadequate? Pharmacists make plenty of money but if you 2 or more children , as most Americans CHOOSE to have , then yes you will feel your 6 figure income is not enough . People complain about the cost of food and let me tell you I am cooking more often now and I personally don’t find food to be so prohibitively expensive . I spent $170 for 15 days of food just for myself and get eggs, produce, fish, meat, etc . That’s not too bad . But if you CHOOSE to have more than 1 child then i can see how food is now more expensive because you have multiple people to feed, including yourself. Don’t tell me $110-$120 k for 1 rph and perhaps $40k from a spouse is not enough . It IS enough if you try to reason from a financial point of view . Some basic lessons and please no offense to those who have 2 or more children - 1) stop being a breeder . It’s 2022 and with how life is these days this isn’t the time to burden yourself with both responsibilities and extra expenses from multiple children . Have 1 child, not 2 or 3 or 4 . That Europe trip as husband, wife, and 1 child is now more attainable . 2 or more kids ? Suddenly the cost is prohibitive and your vacation will be to Walt Disney World and dining at Denny’s instead of something nicer . 2) Stop spending so much on homes or dreaming about expensive houses . Do not make a “God” out of your home . Get something reasonable, simple and even home maintenance will be less expensive. Choose an expensive home and your hard earned RPh salary will flee from you on plumbing , flooring , or whatever other expense comes up . 3) Find a spouse who is frugal if you can . Be on the same page about babies, home ownership and finances in general . Control your salary and don’t let societal standards dictate how you run your life . I am 36, my girl is 23 and we have discusses just about everything from children to finances and everything . She used to have the mentality of 2 or 3 children and I have destroyed that dream because of the 3 general rules I gave above , rule 1 is the most important . I LOVE to travel and in my years in retail I was blessed enough to be avle to afford traveling all over the world by prioritizing , not breeding, living simply . I have been to multiple countries on every continent and enjoyed it with my pharmacist income . And how ? Because pharmacists still make great money . Its all about priorities . I have pharmacists asking me how I do this or that and they all whine ant complain they can’t afford anything and when you inquire further you realize they have a big home, more than 1 car, and multiple mouths to feed . That was their priority in life and they are living their dream so why complain ? Please don’t say $100k is nothing when 90% of the population is living on FAR LESS. Those NYC sanitation workers pulling in $300k? The cleaning people making $38 per hour ? It may be true but one thing you guys are forgetting is that those few people may be making those salaries but they have no degree to fall upon if they lose those jobs . The cleaning person being paid $38 per hour or the sanitation worker pulling in 6 figures may lose their jobs and end up having to take another job that only pays them $20 per hour since they lack a degree . At least as a pharmacist you may lose your job but you know because of your degree you can get another job and make similar money - those other people wirh no education may lose their coveted position and need to take a huge pay cut to get another job in an unrelated field. Just something to think about …

1) How does a 36 year-old man date 23 year old? Help a brother out

2) For the love of god can y'all cringe ass mofos fix your enter key goddamn

 

[Dred Pirate]

It's called inflation. The pharm school tuition rates back then were dirt ass cheap. Now they are like 40K/year and the average rate keeps getting lower while everyday costs (and licensing fees) keep getting higher

they in no way were dirt ass cheap - I graduated with 115k loans - which I get is lowish compared to some of y'all. State schools are still in the mid 20's k a year range - with that you can graduate with less than 100k of loans if you work (I worked full time). Don't go to these stupid expensive private school (I went to an established private school that has a pharmacy program that started in the 1800's - but I still should have gone to the state schools that accepted me).

But I agree the pay rate doesn't compare to what it used to be (although my salary has kept up with inflation- it has gone up 70% since I graduated.

 

[Dred Pirate]

1) How does a 36 year-old man date 23 year old? Help a brother out

2) For the love of god can y'all cringe ass mofos fix your enter key goddamn

ya - I can't ready past three lines on those types of posts,

 

[randompharm]

To be fair, university is not free in most countries, it is free in some countries...and very few still pay living expenses for student. University is certainly cheaper juabout everywhere outside the US. The main difference, though is access. Anyone can attend a college somewhere in the US. In Europe, your education/career path is likely determined before you enter [what we call] high school. While it may be difficult to study/work yourself out of poverty in the US, it’s pretty close to impossible to do so in Europe.

they in no way were dirt ass cheap - I graduated with 115k loans - which I get is lowish compared to some of y'all. State schools are still in the mid 20's k a year range - with that you can graduate with less than 100k of loans if you work (I worked full time). Don't go to these stupid expensive private school (I went to an established private school that has a pharmacy program that started in the 1800's - but I still should have gone to the state schools that accepted me).

But I agree the pay rate doesn't compare to what it used to be (although my salary has kept up with inflation- it has gone up 70% since I graduated.

They were dirt cheap in comparison, 12 years ago a school nearby which is top 5 was 5k/semester or 40k for the whole program. Today they are about 120k. This is in state without living expenses, just tuition.

 

[Dred Pirate]

They were dirt cheap in comparison, 12 years ago a school nearby which is top 5 was 5k/semester or 40k for the whole program. Today they are about 120k. This is in state without living expenses, just tuition.

agreed we need to address the rising cost of tuition, student loan forgiveness doesn't do this - it actually makes it worse bc schools will know they can just keep charging more and more.

and you should never have to borrow living expenses. Work close to full time during the year and OT during breaks. I made almost 30k a year back when I graduated in 2004 - equivalent to about 46k today - that is enough to live on in most places (share an apartment, life frugal, etc)

 

[sunnyandseventytwo]

They were dirt cheap in comparison, 12 years ago a school nearby which is top 5 was 5k/semester or 40k for the whole program. Today they are about 120k. This is in state without living expenses, just tuition.

Are you talking UCSF? I would call them an outlier amongst pharmacy (and other health professions) schools. They were almost entirely funded by the state prior to 2000, then decided us "professionals" were making too much money post graduation and added a professional school fee on top of the regular fees. I'm sure some other public universities have adopted similar pricing schemes. For 2003, this fee had climbed to 8k a year (total cost 16k in state), the professional fee is now 31k a year total cost 53k (note UCSF is year round now...so maybe reduce that number by 25% for a more accurate comparison).

Here are UCSF costs for the last 20 years. Archived Fees | UCSF Office of the Registrar

I went to a mid-priced private pharmacy school. Tuition was 16K a year, and for some reason went up to 20k the last year. [This was 20 years ago.] That's only inexpensive compared to now: 46k a year. Note: I currently make twice what I made as compared to my first post residency job. Heck, I make twice what I made compared to my 4th post residency job.

 

[sunnyandseventytwo]

and you should never have to borrow living expenses. Work close to full time during the year and OT during breaks. I made almost 30k a year back when I graduated in 2004 - equivalent to about 46k today - that is enough to live on in most places (share an apartment, life frugal, etc)

I made 30k+ a year all through pharmacy school (I had full time health benefits from the chain I worked at from all the OT I picked up over summers) but still managed to borrow an extra 20k a year some stupid private loan company offered to give me. Looking back, I have no idea how I managed to spend so much money.

 

[mentos]

1) How does a 36 year-old man date 23 year old? Help a brother out

2) For the love of god can y'all cringe ass mofos fix your enter key goddamn

LoL I stopped dating anyone under 25 when I was like 27. Can't imagine having a conversation with a 23 year old when I'm 36. Must be fun though.

 

[Dred Pirate]

I made 30k+ a year all through pharmacy school (I had full time health benefits from the chain I worked at from all the OT I picked up over summers) but still managed to borrow an extra 20k a year some stupid private loan company offered to give me. Looking back, I have no idea how I managed to spend so much money.

Ya. We all did dumb things when we were young. I am not an exception, except my biggest financial mistakes were after I graduated. I always tell people, just because you can borrow the money doesn’t mean you should.

 

[RXDOC1986]

Many walgreens locations here in South Florida also remain closed or operating under reduced hours . I left the company after almost a decade about 2 months ago and now work from home. As far as I’m concerned , starting rates for new grads was , until just a few months, $46-$47 per hour . A few weeks ago i heard rates for new grads have now increased to $55 per hour likely due to the desperation the company is experiencing . It’s simple supply and demand . Only a foolish and arrogant American corporation would steadfastly refuse to raise salaries when they need a licensed employee to maintain a certain department up and running . In regards to the $50 per hour not being a big deal anymore, this is true in 2022 because of inflation and the general increase in cost of living .

DoctorRx1986:
My namesake (almost), I really enjoy your posts and your positive attitude. However, I don't agree with all your points above! I am 61 and I married a 21yo, but 36 years ago. A beautiful, smart spouse will set you up for life. Her ring/wedding band combo was $279.00, because I was P-4 and that was triple my yearly income! She never complained. Our first house was $80K, worked hard, almost always having a second job, even now I work 7on/7off and have a second job. Working 40hrs a week is for losers, my opinion. Invested well, saved money, took vacations BUT never to Europe or exotic places. Along the way, had three kids now 30, 27, 14. The two older ones went to state universities, I managed to pay for their tuition, one is loan-free, the other wanted to live independent and took 5 1/2 years for a BS and owes $35-40K. Now, we live in a $1.3 million house (6BR - 8BA and 6800SqFt) many MD's couldn't afford, with a TINY mortgage balance! No lottery win, no inheritance (yet), just Pharmacist paychecks (two jobs at a time), good pay and accumulated over 36 years of hard work, good investments, and real estate (last 3 homes bought and sold).
THE POINT IS, pharmacy profession has provided and afforded a very good lifestyle for me and my family. It should still work for new graduates. Maybe to a lesser level. Let's not pull random professions and one-off situations and compare what we do to sanitation workers and house cleaners and janitors. Too much doom and gloom on this forum.
BTW, my wife is a Dental Hygienist, makes about $50-60 /hr, with 3 years of community college, BUT the most she has ever made was $26K a year working 2 days/week. Best bang for your buck in higher education!

 

[JustFillIt]

DoctorRx1986:
My namesake (almost), I really enjoy your posts and your positive attitude. However, I don't agree with all your points above! I am 61 and I married a 21yo, but 36 years ago.

I had to read this about 6 times before I understood. I thought you were trying to paint a picture where it turned out good when a 61 yo marries a 21 yo.

I see what you did there. Very clever

 

[RXDOC1986]

1) How does a 36 year-old man date 23 year old? Help a brother out

2) For the love of god can y'all cringe ass mofos fix your enter key goddamn

can someone please translate!
1) I can figure out, sorry can't help you there brother
2) love god! but too old to figure out the rest
is it me or the new math they are teaching?

 

[RXDOC1986]

I had to read this about 6 times before I understood. I thought you were trying to paint a picture where it turned out good when a 61 yo marries a 21 yo.

I see what you did there. Very clever

Thank you.
Yes, a smoking hot 21yo. Hooking up with a poor, very poor, P4. Maybe she saw the potential, BUT only had to wait for 25-30 years for the payoff!

 

[JustFillIt]

Thank you.
Yes, a smoking hot 21yo. Hooking up with a poor, very poor, P4. Maybe she saw the potential, BUT only had to wait for 25-30 years for the payoff!

😂 you speak in riddles

 

[RxPreceptor]

LoL I stopped dating anyone under 25 when I was like 27. Can't imagine having a conversation with a 23 year old when I'm 36. Must be fun though.

I just can't fathom going outside that +/- 5 years range...I mean maturity/overall knowledge + experience & sameness/relatability is definitely a thing
Also finances generally less skewed/more likely to be in a similar place in life

 

[Rainbowdash]

To be fair, university is not free in most countries, it is free in some countries...and very few still pay living expenses for student. University is certainly cheaper just about everywhere outside the US. The main difference, though is access. Anyone can attend a college somewhere in the US. In Europe, your education/career path is likely determined before you enter [what we call] high school. While it may be difficult to study/work yourself out of poverty in the US, it’s pretty close to impossible to do so in Europe.

Wrong.
A degree and a ticket out of poverty is much more attainable in Europe. The career path may be determined before you enter high school (or gymnasium in Germany, for example), but there are lots of other ways, including professional colleges and apprenticeships to be had.
But in the U.S. one has an opportunity to make more money overall.

 

[DH1987]

I've been a pharmacist for almost 6 years, have no debt, and I'll just say I have enough saved up to buy a good house completely up front with cash. It hasn't been easy being a pharmacist, but I do believe compared to the vast majority of people, I have it very good.

 

[owlegrad]

I've been a pharmacist for almost 6 years, have no debt, and I'll just say I have enough saved up to buy a good house completely up front with cash. It hasn't been easy being a pharmacist, but I do believe compared to the vast majority of people, I have it very good.

To have no debt and be able to buy a house with cash after only 6 years under your belt means you have a very unusual situation. Good for you! And at least your recognize it.

But no way most pharmacy graduates could have their loans paid off and be able to save up for a house in that time period.

 

[RXDOC1986]

You’ve got a real fixation on kids. They really don’t cost that much. All those “it costs $300k to raise a child until she’s 18” studies are crap. They always include lodging. I have a 3 bedroom house; I’d have a 3 bedroom house (minimum) regardless of the number of children I have. I would not be renting out rooms in my house even if I had no children. People are broke because they buy expensive cars and eat out too much. End of story.

Do you have any kids? How could you say they don't cost that much. Well let me tell you: I have three, 30, 27, 14. It starts from hospital bills at birth, your copay, and shoots up from there. All the latest baby care tech, formula, then it takes off. You look for a bigger house in the best school district which is jacked up because they know, you know the school system matters. Then all the activities, vacations, and sports. Private tennis lessons, summer camps, private tutors. A pair of Jordan basketball shoes @ $150 X 5 or 6. Then comes cars at 16 and car insurance $$$$$$. Then comes college, room and board and a better car. And then comes cost of a wedding for the daughter (estimated @$50K +++)
ALSO, your wife that has the potential to make $90-100K/year staying home to raise the kids!
I know I left off a few big ticket expenses. NO, THEY REALLY DON"T COST THAT MUCH!
MAYBE NOT $300K per kid, but damn close!

So the only thing you had to do was get a 3 bedroom and stick your kids in their respective bedrooms with no other costs. Why didn't I think about that? Silly me!

 

[RXDOC1986]

To have no debt and be able to buy a house with cash after only 6 years under your belt means you have a very unusual situation. Good for you! And at least your recognize it.

But no way most pharmacy graduates could have their loans paid off and be able to save up for a house in that time period.

I have been a pharmacist for almost 36 years, have no debt, and I'll just say, I live in a $1.3 million house.
Again a very unusual situation. Most pharmacist have to struggle to pay the bills and dig out of a bad financial situation. This is what this thread is all about.

 

[JustFillIt]

I have been a pharmacist for almost 36 years, have no debt, and I'll just say, I live in a $1.3 million house.
Again a very unusual situation. Most pharmacist have to struggle to pay the bills and dig out of a bad financial situation. This is what this thread is all about.

I suppose if I rode the golden age of pharmacy I would own a 1 mill + home too.

Anyone who has been full time rph for 36 years and started in the late 80s early 90s better be in the position you state. If not they messed up bigtime along the way.

In fact - if I was an rph from 1998-2010, that’s all I would have needed. I would have had the world by the balls. Unfortunately for me, shortly after 2010 is when I started pharmacy. And (I have to speak in religious speech make this point) woe unto anyone who gets into pharmacy going forward - for verily I say unto you, you will be smitten with a sore curse for which you will never find atonement.

 

[mentos]

Do you have any kids? How could you say they don't cost that much. Well let me tell you: I have three, 30, 27, 14. It starts from hospital bills at birth, your copay, and shoots up from there. All the latest baby care tech, formula, then it takes off. You look for a bigger house in the best school district which is jacked up because they know, you know the school system matters. Then all the activities, vacations, and sports. Private tennis lessons, summer camps, private tutors. A pair of Jordan basketball shoes @ $150 X 5 or 6. Then comes cars at 16 and car insurance $$$$$$. Then comes college, room and board and a better car. And then comes cost of a wedding for the daughter (estimated @$50K +++)
ALSO, your wife that has the potential to make $90-100K/year staying home to raise the kids!
I know I left off a few big ticket expenses. NO, THEY REALLY DON"T COST THAT MUCH!
MAYBE NOT $300K per kid, but damn close!

So the only thing you had to do was get a 3 bedroom and stick your kids in their respective bedrooms with no other costs. Why didn't I think about that? Silly me!

Seriously, if he really has kids then he must get free childcare from grandparents and their kid must be super healthy, no hospital bills. Some people pay 3k/mo for daycare for one child! If they do any kind of sports/activities then that's easily $100-200/mo for swimming lessons, soccer, baseball, hockey, dance, music lessons, whatever.

 

[mentos]

I've been a pharmacist for almost 6 years, have no debt, and I'll just say I have enough saved up to buy a good house completely up front with cash. It hasn't been easy being a pharmacist, but I do believe compared to the vast majority of people, I have it very good.

How??? Did you have loans? Say you make 120k/year (most pharmacists make less cause they get less than 40 hours/week), you take home 84k per year x 6 years=504k for 6 years. If you have 200k in loans then that leaves you with 300k or 50k per year to live on. Where can you get a house for under 200k these days?

 

[mentos]

I suppose if I rode the golden age of pharmacy I would own a 1 mill + home too.

Our 700k house bought 3 years ago became a million dollar house this year cause of the crazy market. First house was only 300k so it was a big upgrade.

 

[RXDOC1986]

Wrong.
A degree and a ticket out of poverty is much more attainable in Europe. The career path may be determined before you enter high school (or gymnasium in Germany, for example), but there are lots of other ways, including professional colleges and apprenticeships to be had.
But in the U.S. one has an opportunity to make more money overall.

you guys are both right and at the same time both wrong! As an immigrant, I can speak to the points made about education and opportunity in Europe and a few other regions.
Almost all of Europe is socialist to different degrees. This means you don't have the extreme lows (poverty) or the extreme highs (physicians making $1 million). I have a cousin in Sweden, he patiently waited and eventually was chosen to attend Medical school at 40 and is now an Ophthalmologist and eye surgeon. All the MDs are salaried, paid by the Government, all healthcare is free. He is single, makes enough to afford a 1 BR apartment, but not a car. He rides his bicycle around around Gothenburg where he was assigned to work. His retirement is taken care of. All healthcare, education and all social services is taken care of. AND pharmacist make far less than him (we can only dream of bicycles - jk) He takes a month or two off (he can take up to 3 months off a year) and bicycles throughout Europe. Maybe one day, he can afford a Volvo. He is very content and unstressed. BUT its apples and watermelons, there is no comparison between them and us. Again, no abject poverty to dig yourself out of, and no great opportunities/wealth to stress over.

 

[RXDOC1986]

I suppose if I rode the golden age of pharmacy I would own a 1 mill + home too.

Anyone who has been full time rph for 36 years and started in the late 80s early 90s better be in the position you state. If not they messed up bigtime along the way.

In fact - if I was an rph from 1998-2010, that’s all I would have needed. I would have had the world by the balls. Unfortunately for me, shortly after 2010 is when I started pharmacy. And (I have to speak in religious speech make this point) woe unto anyone who gets into pharmacy going forward - for verily I say unto you, you will be smitten with a sore curse for which you will never find atonement.

You are absolutely correct! Everyone of us old timers were just handed bucketsfull of cash. I never had to work two jobs at a time. Sacrifice weekends and holidays and time with the family. Never had to invest wisely or smartly buy real estate. They just knocked on my door and said since you graduated in 1986, here is your cash prize, you are set for life. Don't worry about a thing.
The golden age of pharmacy was the VA offering me $29K/year and me turning it down for a Whopping $36K/year in Home Infusion.

 

[BidingMyTime]

I honestly thought I would get 1000 replies and we would be this mad mob like the corinthian college student who got their loans wiped out. Seems they are smarter than us. We got robbed by the schools but too chicken to act crazy so government can give us a handout.

The difference is that most Corinthian college students never got a job in the field they paid to be educated in. On the other hand, most pharmacy graduates can get a job in pharmacy--it may be a sucky job, but they can get a job. And let's be honest, even low-paid pharmacist jobs are paying above the median income. So 2 completely different situations, and nobody has any empathy for pharmacists because of this.

 

[owlegrad]

You are absolutely correct! Everyone of us old timers were just handed bucketsfull of cash. I never had to work two jobs at a time. Sacrifice weekends and holidays and time with the family. Never had to invest wisely or smartly buy real estate. They just knocked on my door and said since you graduated in 1986, here is your cash prize, you are set for life. Don't worry about a thing.
The golden age of pharmacy was the VA offering me $29K/year and me turning it down for a Whopping $36K/year in Home Infusion.

It’s always fun when people can’t admit or recognize when luck played a role in their success. You started at 36k/yr and how many years before your wages inflated to 6 figures for no reason that was within your control?

I am sure you worked very hard for your success but if you can’t recognize that all the stars were aligned to help you succeed then I don’t know what to say. I bet your first house was like 1-2x your annual salary as well. Good for you, but maybe spare a thought for how almost impossible that would be for a new pharmacist and recognize the macro factors that made it comparatively easy for you to succeed.

 

[Sunshine98*]

What year did you graduate?

Doesn't matter. I knew what the cost of attending would cost. I chose the debt. I even had more debt after getting out of school: getting a car etc. I just chose to live poorly as possible to pay off my debt.

 

[DoctorRx1986]

Do you have any kids? How could you say they don't cost that much. Well let me tell you: I have three, 30, 27, 14. It starts from hospital bills at birth, your copay, and shoots up from there. All the latest baby care tech, formula, then it takes off. You look for a bigger house in the best school district which is jacked up because they know, you know the school system matters. Then all the activities, vacations, and sports. Private tennis lessons, summer camps, private tutors. A pair of Jordan basketball shoes @ $150 X 5 or 6. Then comes cars at 16 and car insurance $$$$$$. Then comes college, room and board and a better car. And then comes cost of a wedding for the daughter (estimated @$50K +++)
ALSO, your wife that has the potential to make $90-100K/year staying home to raise the kids!
I know I left off a few big ticket expenses. NO, THEY REALLY DON"T COST THAT MUCH!
MAYBE NOT $300K per kid, but damn close!

So the only thing you had to do was get a 3 bedroom and stick your kids in their respective bedrooms with no other costs. Why didn't I think about that? Silly me!

With all due respect , this is exactly what I’m talking about when I say people burden themselves and become “yes” people to social conditioning and the “system”. Many of the things you mention are superfluous and not necessary . Activities ? Many activities are free/come at no charge . I grew up with two middle class parents and other than some basketball lessons/coaching from age 7-11, they never had to pay any private sports lessons or other hobby . They simply couldn’t afford it . Best school ? How about public school ? They sent me to the best public school in the best neighborhood and no need to pay . They did what they could without becoming an undue cost burden . You seem to be thinking best school which may or may not be private school ? My parents as a teacher and teacher assistant couldn’t pull it off . But I turned out ok . Jordans? Lmao at $150 a pair for growing kids who will outgrow the shoes in months ? Nope . They’d get me some nice things /shoes at a price they could afford . And Jesus - are you serious ? Cars for the 16 year olds ? Since when is that necessary ? I had my driver’s license at 15-16 but got my own car in cash at age 19. Many kids are reckless drivers as teens and just buying them a vehicle without earning it fails to teach them about earning things/hard work . Please tell me you are kidding me when you say pay for your daughter’s wedding ? Paying for a grown a** woman ? Listen, you may love your daughter /kids but that is her dream and her responsibility. Sure, give the couple a gift , maybe contribute some money towards the honeymoon if you can give it away but don’t burden yourself with paying a wedding . It is very early where I am and just woke up so I am really hoping this is just satire and nothing more . I do know parents who pay for all these things and say after they have no money or barely anything for retirement . But everything is a choice . So long as they have high quality nutrition , shelter over their heads , decent clothing (not necessarily brand -you want brand , then you better earn it ) , friendships , some entertainment, a good education (education doesn’t have to be pricey ), and you inculcate values and morals your children will turn out ok . Leave out student loans , college expenses , weddings , cars , and all this nonsense to them to face as adults . Too many parents pay everything and the kid ends up partying through college instead , ends up some delinquent who doesn’t even want to work because you served everything on a platter , or despising the parents . Take them on a vacation , go with your wife /husband etc but don’t burden yourself more than you have to . My parents were hard workers and did the best for me . I attended public schools , didn’t always wear brand name clothing , enjoyed some hobbies that were free of charge , and would travel to Mexico , the Caribbean , or other places for summer vacations (parents were teachers and off the summers ). They taught me responsibility and did not provide every luxury , college funds , etc when they also could not provide more than they could for themselves . People burden themselves and follow everyone else and hace the need to “keep up “ with the latest and then end up broke , depressed, and stressed . Oh you forgot to mention get the kids the latest iPhone . Which one is out now ? The 14 this year ? Better get on it daddy/ mommy for the kiddos or it means you’re not a good parent . 🤣

 

[sadface]

You are absolutely correct! Everyone of us old timers were just handed bucketsfull of cash. I never had to work two jobs at a time. Sacrifice weekends and holidays and time with the family. Never had to invest wisely or smartly buy real estate. They just knocked on my door and said since you graduated in 1986, here is your cash prize, you are set for life. Don't worry about a thing.
The golden age of pharmacy was the VA offering me $29K/year and me turning it down for a Whopping $36K/year in Home Infusion.

For what it’s worth I put 36k from 1986 to now into two inflation calculators and both said it’s the same as just under 100k today. Now people have to go to school longer so less time to earn (pharmD), pay way more in loans, and the rest of life is also less affordable for that same wage as a pharmacist. Not trying to say you didn’t work hard because I think you have worked hard, but working hard now doesn’t offer the same opportunities as it did in the past.

 

[JustFillIt]

Doesn't matter. I knew what the cost of attending would cost. I chose the debt. I even had more debt after getting out of school: getting a car etc. I just chose to live poorly as possible to pay off my debt.

Oh it matters….