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The facebook group has some people who live there. Also search this thread for "pembroke".
Evms
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The facebook group has some people who live there. Also search this thread for "pembroke".
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To recap:
1. MM's start getting acceptances after graduation.
2. Graduation was Saturday May 18.
3. The office of admissions isn't open on weekends.
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If you want your app to be looked at early, you can't wait for that letter.
This is highly subjective, and honestly the differences between med schools are too complex to give a tidy answer. But: historically, EVMS MM's wait to submit secondaries at other schools until they have Dr. Meyer's letter.
Best of luck to you.
Is there any advantage in having it looked at early, since schools will wait for fall semester grades anyway?
Right now, all the schools I plan to apply to this cycle have accepted EVMS MM's in previous years. I chose them, in part, for this reason, but also because a few are my state schools and some of the others I received interviews/waitlists from this cycle.
Thanks for your help!
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Well, graduation is over and class is roughly 80 days away. I guess we should be hearing soon about how the class of 2013 is doing with acceptances into EVMS for the fall. Here's to that historic 85-90 % success rate!
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I don't believe I've ever seen stats on the EVMS website. Alumni talk about EVMS stats on SDN, but EVMS never talks about med masters stats on its website.
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Another answer to this: why does Gtown have 180+ SMP students when only 15-20% get into Gtown?
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"Since 1995, the EVMS Medical Master's Program has helped 85-90% of our applicants successfully place themselves in the entering classes of allopathic medical schools across the United States."
-Source: http://www.evms.edu/education/masters_programs/medical_masters_program/
This says nothing, however, about how many students are admitted from the EVMS MM program into the medical school. It's possible that with the increase in MM class size, there will be more acceptances into the medical school because of an increase in the overall medical school class size (the only data I could find was a 30% increase in 2011-2012). This is just conjecture, though. Like DrMidlife said, it is impossible to predict what will happen based on previous years.
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I stand corrected. Still can't quite focus my eyes after taking the physio shelf. Sorry folks.
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This is all speculation. Even with the MM class size increase, there are too many variables we don't know and never will know. For example, MM graduates who didn't get into the MD program at the end of the MM - how were their grades in the MM program? How did their EVMS MD interview go? We're they good citizens of the program (ie- did they take advantage of volunteer opportunities and have a good rapport with the program staff administration, and students?)? As far as I can tell, no other program with give you opportunities and get your foot in the door of a well-respected medical school like this one will.
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Well, here's what I'm hearing for the MM class of 2013: it's already over 70%. Out of 40, 2 got in to another med school, 27 are in at EVMS. That's after week one of acceptances. Among the 27 EVMS acceptees, some have acceptances at other schools as well. None of this info is public, none of it is official, and all of it is subject to change.
As is true with all the MM years I've seen, this is the best and worst of times. Those who are in are joyous, of course. Those who are not in, at least not yet, are baffled, frustrated and devastated. Marriages and families and rental leases and employment and reapplication plans are all completely up in the air for the 11 who are waiting. MM13's that I assumed would be at the top of the list were not. We'll see what happens next week.
For the moment, three things:
1. Your stats prior to the EVMS MM do matter and will not be ignored in your admissions decision.
2. Your involvement in EVMS community activities as an MM will not seal your deal.
3. Every exam score matters - not just the end grade for a class.
Best of luck to you.
As is true with all the MM years I've seen, this is the best and worst of times. Those who are in are joyous, of course. Those who are not in, at least not yet, are baffled, frustrated and devastated. Marriages and families and rental leases and employment and reapplication plans are all completely up in the air for the 11 who are waiting. MM13's that I assumed would be at the top of the list were not. We'll see what happens next week.
For the moment, three things:
1. Your stats prior to the EVMS MM do matter and will not be ignored in your admissions decision.
2. Your involvement in EVMS community activities as an MM will not seal your deal.
3. Every exam score matters - not just the end grade for a class.
Best of luck to you.
This should end speculation. According to MSAR about 30% of admitted students have a graduate degree (which is very high compared to other schools). With a class size of 150 for next year that means that (150 x .3)= 45. If the trend continues as I imagine it would, that means 45 students will be accepted into next years class with graduate degrees. (45/50)= .9 or 90% of the class size of the MM.
Using this info you could make the assumption that they have allotted the 90% that is mentioned on their website for the med masters kids. So again, like it has been stated multiple times, the spots are yours to lose. I really do not think this program is a "money grab" and genuinely feel like the administration have the students best interest in mind. Obviously they profit off of this, but differently than say, Ross Med, where they do not care about you at all and actually plan on a large portion of students failing out, but still having to pay tuition.
Oh well. That's just my take.
Using this info you could make the assumption that they have allotted the 90% that is mentioned on their website for the med masters kids. So again, like it has been stated multiple times, the spots are yours to lose. I really do not think this program is a "money grab" and genuinely feel like the administration have the students best interest in mind. Obviously they profit off of this, but differently than say, Ross Med, where they do not care about you at all and actually plan on a large portion of students failing out, but still having to pay tuition.
Oh well. That's just my take.
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Well, yes and no. The GT SMP regularly sends 3-9 grads to EVMS MD. However, those stats are for classes prior to the increase in class size at EVMS. But, medical schools throughout the country are gradually increasing their class sizes annually, to a small degree, to combat that 100,000 + physician shortage that is anticipated to occur in the next 10-20 years.
I did some further research, last year's EVMS publication book showed about a 15 % acceptance rate into the MM program. For a masters program, that is extremely selective, and I think is something that is highly reassuring, as they obviously do not have a dearth of applicants, which means if you were in that 15%, they think with the right amount of work and ability, you can get into the MD program. It also seems that they are trying to promote the program more on the school website. I view this as a positive sign as well. There are a lot of these programs popping up around the country, and most of them seem to be only interested in cash with no feeding back into the MD school whatsoever. This is hardly the case with EVMS. So far, we know that 75 % have been accepted somewhere. Graduation was 6 days ago and as has been discussed on this thread many times, there is always wait list movement. Therefore, common sense dictates that the 75 % number must increase.
I also agree that the supportive nature of the admissions office is phenomenal. Leah and Amber are wonderful people who go out of our way to ensure that our CV and PS are the best that they can possibly be. I applied to GT and Cincy as well, my experience with their SMP admissions offices were far different and not nearly as caring or positive.
The bottom line, we are all coming here because we understand the value of a US MD and that while we made a mistake at some point, we want to show that we have overcome those errors and that we can cut it in medical school. There is no program ANYWHERE that is going to get your foot in the door like this one will. While there is no guarantee, I like my chances vs an applicant with similar stats who isn't doing this program. Furthermore, if someone is looking to do an SMP with the best possible shot of starting MD right after, this is probably the best program in the entire country.
Thoughts?
I did some further research, last year's EVMS publication book showed about a 15 % acceptance rate into the MM program. For a masters program, that is extremely selective, and I think is something that is highly reassuring, as they obviously do not have a dearth of applicants, which means if you were in that 15%, they think with the right amount of work and ability, you can get into the MD program. It also seems that they are trying to promote the program more on the school website. I view this as a positive sign as well. There are a lot of these programs popping up around the country, and most of them seem to be only interested in cash with no feeding back into the MD school whatsoever. This is hardly the case with EVMS. So far, we know that 75 % have been accepted somewhere. Graduation was 6 days ago and as has been discussed on this thread many times, there is always wait list movement. Therefore, common sense dictates that the 75 % number must increase.
I also agree that the supportive nature of the admissions office is phenomenal. Leah and Amber are wonderful people who go out of our way to ensure that our CV and PS are the best that they can possibly be. I applied to GT and Cincy as well, my experience with their SMP admissions offices were far different and not nearly as caring or positive.
The bottom line, we are all coming here because we understand the value of a US MD and that while we made a mistake at some point, we want to show that we have overcome those errors and that we can cut it in medical school. There is no program ANYWHERE that is going to get your foot in the door like this one will. While there is no guarantee, I like my chances vs an applicant with similar stats who isn't doing this program. Furthermore, if someone is looking to do an SMP with the best possible shot of starting MD right after, this is probably the best program in the entire country.
Thoughts?
I know you said that it's not public and also not official. Just curious though, did those numbers come from MM2013 class members or from the adcom/MM office? Pretty hard to keep track of 40 students.
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MM13 class info. Those 40 know each other better than did the 23 in my MM class, and frankly, they put us to shame. A truly excellent class.
The count is now:
- 2 in at other schools, left mid-year
- 2 in at other schools, finished the year
- 28 in at EVMS (some had other acceptances as well)
For the other 8, who are waiting to hear, if you're religious, send them a prayer of comfort. If you're not religious, take a moment to reflect on courage and strength. You will go through some equivalent of this next year.
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Bah. Speculation never ends.
EVMS is a low tier, low stats school, where many students are nontraditional. We have an abundance of military officers, chemistry teachers, professional athletes, etc.
In particular, we have a boatload of SMP grads from other schools as well as our own MMs. I know EVMS MD students, in the last couple classes, from the SMPs at Gtown, Drexel, Cincinnati, Boston and Tufts.
Utterly specious.
There is no allotment. The med masters program belongs to the EVMS School of Health Professions. It does not belong to the med school. Med masters don't get direct admission, they get waitlist spots. The waitlist has to move or you don't get a seat. No reserved seat.
That was the story when there were 23 seats in the program. If you knew the 8 exceptional students who are currently waiting to get in, it would be clear that there are no reserved seats.
Of course it's a money grab. There's no benefit to the students or to the faculty in a class size increase. The faculty has been forced to scramble to make sense of the increases in both the MM and MD classes. The program size increase helps EVMS address budget shortcomings in this economic recession. I challenge you to find a med school that isn't looking to bridge budget gaps in a similar fashion. Just google a school name and "budget".
But yes, the faculty and staff are quite dedicated to the student body. Faculty not on the MD admissions committee don't spend time thinking about MD admissions. Those on the admissions committee do worry about waitlist movement, but honestly they don't lose sleep over it.
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First time posting, idk if I am doing this right.
But Dr Midlife,
What you are saying then is that 85-90% stat on the site is essentially going to drop to around 50-60% next year with the size increase of class?
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I think we are jumping the gun. Right now, 32 students are definitely going to medical school out of 40. That's exactly 80 %. If just 2 more get in, which is very possibly with even more, that's at least 85 %. Still a strong feeder rate, to say the least.
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Look. Past outcomes are from past performances. EVMS doesn't allocate. EVMS doesn't set a percentage of MM students who will get in. There is no contract or guarantee. Each individual MM student succeeds or fails based on their own individual merits, and based on how they individually rank against the competition on the waitlist.
The class size went from 23 to 40 in just 2 years, and the acceptance rate just one week after graduation is already 80%. Does that mean it'll be the same next year? I have no idea.
My advice is to let go of the results and stay on top of the work. Work your fanny off harder than you've ever worked. Think long term. If you need another year to get into med school after finishing an SMP, no actual puppies die. Also, please read back in this thread to understand the context. The answer to "will I get an EVMS/other MD acceptance if I do the med masters" depends on a whole bunch of things.
1. how well you do in the program
2. how well you get along with people
3. what your stats are going in
4. whether you're in state or out of state and/or URM
5. how competitive the other MM students and the other MD applicants are
I get it, people want to know if it'll be worth it. They don't want to maybe move cross country (like I did) and pay $30k tuition (like I did) and work like a dog (like I did) without knowing it'll pay off. But you won't know if it'll pay off until you have that unbelievably sweet blue-bordered letter in your hands. You can choose to lose your mind over the uncertainty. You can decide that you're entitled, and that paying all that tuition and not getting any C's means you deserve a seat, and wallow in resentment and bitterness. You can decide that getting in to EVMS MD is not your goal, and use EVMS MM to get to your real goal (your own state's schools, for instance). You can do whatever you like.
What you're getting in the EVMS MM program is an opportunity to go to a US MD school with stats that otherwise would keep you out. You might get to go to EVMS right after you finish the med masters. You might not. Regardless, one of 3 things will happen:
1. You'll go to EVMS or another US MD school right after you finish the med masters.
2. You'll go to EVMS or another US MD school after another year or so.
3. You'll give up on US MD schools, or you'll give up on med school entirely.
How much grace and courage you have, as this all plays out, is in your hands alone.
Best of luck to you.
Hello DrMidlife and others. I've lurked here for a while, but this is my first time posting. Thank you all so much for your insight and help (Especially DrMidlife!)
I have been accepted into the program and plan on attending this August. I am applying to a bunch of other schools as well, and want to figure out the best way to prioritize my secondary applications.
Here is my question. Will it hurt my chances of getting into EVMS if I turn in its secondary later? If I am going to get a later interview spot, or if the ranking is partially based on when you turned in your secondary, I am absolutely going to prioritize the EVMS secondary. However, if it doesn't matter, it probably makes more sense to do other schools' first. Let me know and thank you again!
I have been accepted into the program and plan on attending this August. I am applying to a bunch of other schools as well, and want to figure out the best way to prioritize my secondary applications.
Here is my question. Will it hurt my chances of getting into EVMS if I turn in its secondary later? If I am going to get a later interview spot, or if the ranking is partially based on when you turned in your secondary, I am absolutely going to prioritize the EVMS secondary. However, if it doesn't matter, it probably makes more sense to do other schools' first. Let me know and thank you again!
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There's no rush to get your EVMS secondary done. Med masters apps go in a pile until interviews.
That said, you want to get all your secondaries done before school starts. First exam is usually 3 weeks in, and you need to be an exam-point-obliterating machine by then.
That said, you want to get all your secondaries done before school starts. First exam is usually 3 weeks in, and you need to be an exam-point-obliterating machine by then.
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Hey I just finished the MM program and have been accepted into the MD program and just wanted to give my thoughts to anyone wondering.
There have been some changes (bigger class size/ changes in the programs structure) and these changes started while I was in the MM program. Despite these changes and any uncertainty for the coming year I have to say the culture, faculty, and other students are incredibly supportive here at EVMS. I cant speak for other programs but in my experience at EVMS i never felt excluded which is more important than it may seem. I always got equal attention from and treatment by faculty and never was looked down upon by other students/peers in the M1 program, most of the time I would forget that I wasnt already in the M1 program.
I dont want to sugar coat it too much. I worked harder than I ever have this year and have experienced more stress than I ever have and studied more than I thought was possible. I thought 8 hours a day was an exaggeration but it was actually the norm. Many times I wondered what I got myself into, the Med student lifestyle is tough but I would argue that the MM lifestyle is tougher. Psychologically you always feel the need to be towards the top of the class, so while a med student can shrug off an average performance it is difficult for a MM to do the same. That can take its toll on you if you let it.
Its also tempting to feel entitled when you are out performing the majority of the M1 class and are still technically a "premed". It can be rough being totally immersed in the med school lifestyle and still being uncertain about your future while the rest of the M1 class knows that they will be doctors and they will at least have some way to chip away at their crazy debt.
All that being said I am sooooooo thankful to this thread, Dr Midlife, and the EVMS MM program. There are many routes to med school. I would argue that being a model student/ academic allstar during your undergrad is the easiest and cheapest way. If that didnt happen I think this program is an excellent alternative. I am now an MD student something that was unrealistic just a year ago. So as long as you are realistic about what you will experience here and manage your expectations I would give this program my highest recommendation.
There have been some changes (bigger class size/ changes in the programs structure) and these changes started while I was in the MM program. Despite these changes and any uncertainty for the coming year I have to say the culture, faculty, and other students are incredibly supportive here at EVMS. I cant speak for other programs but in my experience at EVMS i never felt excluded which is more important than it may seem. I always got equal attention from and treatment by faculty and never was looked down upon by other students/peers in the M1 program, most of the time I would forget that I wasnt already in the M1 program.
I dont want to sugar coat it too much. I worked harder than I ever have this year and have experienced more stress than I ever have and studied more than I thought was possible. I thought 8 hours a day was an exaggeration but it was actually the norm. Many times I wondered what I got myself into, the Med student lifestyle is tough but I would argue that the MM lifestyle is tougher. Psychologically you always feel the need to be towards the top of the class, so while a med student can shrug off an average performance it is difficult for a MM to do the same. That can take its toll on you if you let it.
Its also tempting to feel entitled when you are out performing the majority of the M1 class and are still technically a "premed". It can be rough being totally immersed in the med school lifestyle and still being uncertain about your future while the rest of the M1 class knows that they will be doctors and they will at least have some way to chip away at their crazy debt.
All that being said I am sooooooo thankful to this thread, Dr Midlife, and the EVMS MM program. There are many routes to med school. I would argue that being a model student/ academic allstar during your undergrad is the easiest and cheapest way. If that didnt happen I think this program is an excellent alternative. I am now an MD student something that was unrealistic just a year ago. So as long as you are realistic about what you will experience here and manage your expectations I would give this program my highest recommendation.
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In your opinion, were there any MM students that excelled in the program and deserved to get in but didn't?
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Cant answer that for 2 reasons
-Only been a week since acceptances started coming out.
-Dont know the details of everyones performance and application.
I dont think the admissions just randomly picks people I think they look at every detail of your performance including attendance to required stuff, your interactions, they way you come off, your academic performance, your past academic performance, your interviews, your application, your involvement in the academic environment (community service/student government etc). Im not an official representative of the program but this is what it seemed to be at least to me. Its like a really in depth year long interview. So if someone didnt get in I dont think anyone could speculate exactly why except maybe that person and the admissions committee because there are so many variables. But like i said I dont think its just random I think you are looked at thoroughly and the ad com makes the best decision they can with all that information.
Are there any updates on the remaining 8 folks? I was really hoping that things would turn around for some of them after the first week of people getting off the waitlist.
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I recently went down to Norfolk, and I was able to arrange housing in Ghent. Having gone there and driving through the area, it absolutely makes sense to pay the extra cash and live near campus. Saving a couple of hundred bucks in rent by living in VA Beach (or other areas that are several miles away) is most definitely not worth it. You will either need to lease a car that has more annual miles (costing you more) or put a lot of wear and tear on an owner vehicle. You will be driving a good 40+ miles round trip commuting, easily necessitating the need to fill up your gas tank once a week (or so). Not to mention the stress and aggravation in dealing with daily traffic that seems to pile up on 64 and 264. I suspect we are in for an extremely challenging and stressful nine months. Why not avoid additional stress wherever possible?
As one of the 40 people of 2013 who is still on the waitlist, I wanted to encourage the entering MM students to apply DO this cycle. There are far too many of you to get in all at once and you do not want to be the A- student who rubbed the interviewer the wrong way. Please, do yourself a favor and fill out the DO applications. It took me a week of calling to arrange for several DO's to shadow in the next month; this is cake compared to the agony of the waitlist. You do not want to lose a year of an attending's salary because you are slightly lazy right now and want to wing it. No one - not one person - enters the program thinking they would be bottom pick. All the best!
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First off, I'm sorry to hear that you are one of the few in this situation. I have a couple questions because mainly it is the people accepted that post here.
1) Looking back would you still recommend the program to incoming students? This is something that makes me very nervous for next year.
2) How was your evms gpa/mcat? If that's personal I understand, but it would be a helpful metric.
3) Even though you did not get into evms, do you feel confident that you will be accepted to an MD or DO program next year? Basically do you feel that the smp still worked in that sense?
4) Finally, any general advice would be greatly appreciated.
Good Luck with your future apps.
Does being an instate (virginia resident) vs out of state MM make a difference on getting into the medical program? What category are you?
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Was EVMS the only medical school you applied to this cycle?
Hello Dr.Midlife,
I'm currently in the process of completing my primary application. I consulted an AMCAS representative on how to incorporate the Medical Master's program into the app. Here is what I was told.
Here are my questions based on that information.
Thanks again!
I'm currently in the process of completing my primary application. I consulted an AMCAS representative on how to incorporate the Medical Master's program into the app. Here is what I was told.
- Enter it as a school attended
- Enter all the courses (Fall and Spring)
Here are my questions based on that information.
- Is it true? Would like to what students in the past have entered on their apps
- If so, is this list of courses current? I remember reading on the FB group that there are some changes. If not, is the new one available? (http://www.evms.edu/education/masters_programs/medical_masters_program/curriculum/)
- Will other med schools put a hold on my app because my grades won't be available until January?
Thanks again!
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How are the stats for the MM13 class now? It was 80% accepted a few weeks back, right? I'm curious to know if it's gone up.
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That's 88 %, which is the closest thing to a guarantee that you will ever find...
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Except for, you know, Temple ACMS which is an actual guarantee and Tourocom if you're into DO.
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True. From what I hear, Temple ACMS has like an average GPA/MCAT of 3.5/30 for entrants into the program. Basically, people that can get into an MD program anyway. As far as DO, if you're looking to do primary care or EM, then there's really no difference. If you do not, or you want to be in a highly academic setting, there is definitely a disadvantage, as compared to an MD.
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I heard from a very reputable source that the EVMS MM has sent out all of its acceptances for the cycle. Congrats to those who got in, and good luck to those on the waitlist.
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Does anyone know if they are expanding MD class too?
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I think we need to keep in mind that when the class size increased from 28 to 40, there was virtually no percentage change in the acceptance rate. Who knows? The acceptance rate can even go up more, as people often come off of wait lists in the summer.
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If anyone is looking for a place to live, I have a great condo RIGHT NEXT TO EVMS, as close as you can get besides Hague Club. It is a 2BR/1BA, hardwood floors, wired with surround sound, in-unit washer and dryer (so you dont have to pay for laundry services), and comes fully furnished at $800/mo per bedroom. Utilities are included (even cable television and wireless internet). Private parking lot, but you won't need a car since it's only a 2 minute walk to EVMS.
My son graduated from EVMS and I am trying to fill both bedrooms, so if you have a friend in mind as a potential roommate this would be a great place. Even if you're a singleton you're in luck, as i have only ever rented to very courteous, easy-going fellow EVMS'ers.
email me at [email protected] if you'd like to know more about the place or see pictures.
Richard
My son graduated from EVMS and I am trying to fill both bedrooms, so if you have a friend in mind as a potential roommate this would be a great place. Even if you're a singleton you're in luck, as i have only ever rented to very courteous, easy-going fellow EVMS'ers.
email me at [email protected] if you'd like to know more about the place or see pictures.
Richard
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Does EVMS have a gym or free/discounted membership to any gym for it's MM students?
The school doesn't have its own gym unfortunately. There are a couple of options - here's what my friend told me.
1) YMCA: only $20 a month and within the walking distance from school. It's small and the weight room is often crowded
2) ODU: a nicer gym. Need to drive and parking is not easy to find around there
1) YMCA: only $20 a month and within the walking distance from school. It's small and the weight room is often crowded
2) ODU: a nicer gym. Need to drive and parking is not easy to find around there
