Dangers of the new schools opening

[DYK343]

I have been posting on this board since ~2008. I deleted my username and restarted my account years ago using the same username. This website has really helped me make decisions throughout the years. I am a graduate of the class of 2014. I grdauted from a strong residency program and I am successful in my career. Podiatry has been very good to me and I do believe its a good career. I am compensated well, I perform 5-10 surgeries a week, I work daily in the hospital with multiple specialties. I enjoy going into work every day. This board and advice of others was instrumental in my path to where I am today.

I feel I need to point out a major issue that is brewing that you may not be able to see. I want you to weigh this information before you decide to take on a 7 year committment with a ~300k price tag.

Podiatry does not typically have a surplus of residency slots. Typically 1:1 graduates to slots with marginal waxing and waning here and there.

Western college podiatric medicine, southern california, graduated its first class of about 40 students in 2013 , and slowly increasd enrollgment over the following years. They had 4 years to create ~50 residency slots and they created almost none (I believe 2-4 positions). This lead to approximately 10% of graduating residents not getting a residency for 3 straight years (edit: fact check 16%). 1 in 10 individuals who met the requirements to graduate had to walk away from the profession with heavy debt, no way to pay it back, and unable to declare bankrupcy on student loans.

Graduating in 2014 I lived through this shortage and it was absolutely misserable. It is heartbreaking to see classmates have to walk away despite meeting all requirements to graduate and obtain a residency because someone with dollar signs for eyes opened a new school and did nothing to mitigate the residency shortage they caused.

There are now TWO new schools Texas/Lake Eerie opening up and going to be both graduating classes in 4 years.

There is very high risk for a major residency shortage looming in 4 years. Be weary of the cheerleaders who have money to be made by filling their school's seats. This is a very serious issue and so far not a peep has been made on how they are going to address the looming residency crisis.

If podiatry is something you really wish to pursue then I think you should go all in and pursue the profession. Work as hard as you can in school, get good grades, be personable, practice interviewing so that you have the best shot at landing a residency during a probable shortage of positions in 4 years time.

I sincerely hope I am wrong about the looming shortage. But history appears to be repeating itself. Best of luck. Feel free to PM me for more information if needed.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[de Ribas]

I have been posting on this board since ~2008. I deleted my username and restarted my account years ago using the same username. This website has really helped me make decisions throughout the years. I am a graduate of the class of 2014. I grdauted from a strong residency program and I am successful in my career. Podiatry has been very good to me and I do believe its a good career. I am compensated well, I perform 5-10 surgeries a week, I work daily in the hospital with multiple specialties. I enjoy going into work every day. This board and advice of others was instrumental in my path to where I am today.

I feel I need to point out a major issue that is brewing that you may not be able to see. I want you to weigh this information before you decide to take on a 7 year committment with a ~300k price tag.

Podiatry does not typically have a surplus of residency slots. Typically 1:1 graduates to slots with marginal waxing and waning here and there.

Western college podiatric medicine, southern california, graduated its first class of about 40 students in 2013 , and slowly increasd enrollgment over the following years. They had 4 years to create ~50 residency slots and they created almost none (I believe 2-4 positions). This lead to approximately 10% of graduating residents not getting a residency for 3 straight years (edit: fact check 16%). 1 in 10 individuals who met the requirements to graduate had to walk away from the profession with heavy debt, no way to pay it back, and unable to declare bankrupcy on student loans.

Graduating in 2014 I lived through this shortage and it was absolutely misserable. It is heartbreaking to see classmates have to walk away despite meeting all requirements to graduate and obtain a residency because someone with dollar signs for eyes opened a new school and did nothing to mitigate the residency shortage they caused.

There are now TWO new schools Texas/Lake Eerie opening up and going to be both graduating classes in 4 years.

There is very high risk for a major residency shortage looming in 4 years. Be weary of the cheerleaders who have money to be made by filling their school's seats. This is a very serious issue and so far not a peep has been made on how they are going to address the looming residency crisis.

If podiatry is something you really wish to pursue then I think you should go all in and pursue the profession. Work as hard as you can in school, get good grades, be personable, practice interviewing so that you have the best shot at landing a residency during a probable shortage of positions in 4 years time.

I sincerely hope I am wrong about the looming shortage. But history appears to be repeating itself. Best of luck. Feel free to PM me for more information if needed.

It's coming. What worse is that oversaturation will come sometime later. We already have poor job market with low income potential. Its going to get worse.

 

[Pronation]

Agree 100%. Although I’m doing well (pure luck), the ROI risk is so high that I would never recommend going into this profession to anyone.

 

[iridocyclitiss]

I think this problem is even more difficult because some leadership is out of touch. There were quite a few instances during fourth year where attendings were confused about why there was a sharp decrease in applications in the past two years. Instead of looking at high tuition costs, poor job market, or one of the many other issues deterring students, they took the easy route and blame SDN or Reddit. It's an easy cop-out. If students are interested in podiatry school, go to the texas school and save all your money. Or be even smarter and go into AI or coding.

 

[heybrother]

I'll throw this out there. I'm in a town of 7 podiatrists. We are well represented by all orthopedic specialties. If all 7 podiatrists came together in town and formed a residency - we still couldn't in my opinion graduate a resident a year unless the orthopedists were apart of the residency. I do a bit of rearfoot and am pursuing certification - but its no where close to the majority of what I do. 1st MPJ fusion / lapidus is my most common case. There should be another podiatrist in town doing rearfoot but a rep suggested to me that they think he barely operates. He's years ahead of me and isn't ABFAS certified. Several of the older podiatrists are foot certified but they essentially exclusively do Austins and hammertoes. I looked and my partner has done one 1st MPJ fusion this year. One other podiatrist can do a lapidus but literally refers all 1st MPJ fusions to ortho. Two of the older pods in town are from everything I hear very questionable surgeons. We have a brand new podiatrist and I've been lead to believe from their own admission they are a weak surgeon and prefer wound care. From interacting with everyone in town - I really think I'm the only person who would enjoy interacting with residents. We are spread as a group across multiple private practices and 2 competing hospitals. If you looked at a map you'd say - that town has to have enough resources for a residency. Not without ortho or a major change in referrals. The town decades ago had a podiatry residency. It got shut down due to not being able to meet the rearfoot requirement of the time.

I won't reduce the amount of effort that goes into founding a school. I'm sure its a lot. But at the end of the day, the school ultimately gets paid student loan money. Yes, there's a unpaid time and effort to get things rolling. Once you start though - its not like you start with 5 students and work your way up. Ideally you start a class of 30-40 people working your way up to 50.

Meanwhile - most residencies graduate 2-3 residents a year. For all of the bad residencies and mills out there - a lot of residencies are a labor of love. Ask anyone who has let a resident or student do a case. The second a school opens a clock is ticking where residencies are going to need to be available 4 years. I don't know how CPME approves a residency but you sure as hell had better hope there's a tract record of DPMs in the group being able to do ankle fractures and calcaneal osteotomies so that RRA can be met. If the average residency size is 2 residents a year then you need to start 20-25 residencies to take those students. That means independently 20-25 hospitals have to devote the resources, find vascular surgeons, hospitalists etc who are willing to take on a resident. Presumably you need at least 5 podiatrists coming together and in a lot of situations they still wouldn't generate enough cases unless the bench was deeper with outside surgeons being available. Consider above - 7 pods and the volume still wouldn't be sufficient.

Where am I going with this. I think its a lot easier to graduate a bunch of students then it is to ensure they get the training they need. The schools are getting paid. The residency faculty really aren't unless they put their residents to work.

Worse - there's clearly an ENORMOUS leadership vacuum in this profession whereby crucial steps are not interconnected to each other. A podiatry student cannot become a podiatry attending without a residency but no one ensures the residencies will be there when they found a school. The cart is always before the horse.

There is a regular poster on this forum who says something that is technically true but that is ...painful to you as future podiatrists. Its some version of the following - CPME doesn't take into account the overall dynamics of the podiatry profession (residencies, jobs, demand) when they approve a school - they just ensure the school meets the accreditation requirements. Feels like someone else should have a say, but whatever.

How terrible will that be for you in the future when you don't have a residency? The failure to give you what you needed stretched literally years before you even started. A profession with all manner of organizations and groups and salaries and big whigs claiming to represent us as a group still allowed a school (2 schools!) to be formed and to take your money with essentially no thought given to how your training would be completed. It wasn't their job. It wasn't in any way something they were expected or required to offer. They simply got to collect your tuition money and then cut you to the wind. They threw parties. They gave speeches. Has anyone received a letter or a request from a podiatry organization saying "Hey guys, we need to start residencies for all these new students?" I haven't. Did anyone ask UTRGV to only take on a class of 10 for its first few years to ensure there would be residencies? I don't know but they didn't take on a class of 10 - they took on a class of like 27 right and they intend to take more this coming year.

You can dismiss the attendings on this forum but we are the only people who are actually worried about you. We are the only people saying - what's going to happen to those graduates. Everyone else is just cashing their paycheck.

The only thing that is going to save future graduates is the potential collapse of the application pool. If all the schools return to their normal matriculation habits - a terrible year is coming in 4 years. If students continue to see the light and no one applies then ya'll will be in an interesting situation for awhile (that will create other new different problems). My hope is there's only 300 applicants next year but I guess we'll see.

Podiatry doesn't deserve you. I'm not even touching the usual issues. Just residencies today. Do what you will but ask yourself - why aren't the leadership people talking about this? Why is this just an SDN discussion.

 

[CutsWithFury]

I'll throw this out there. I'm in a town of 7 podiatrists. We are well represented by all orthopedic specialties. If all 7 podiatrists came together in town and formed a residency - we still couldn't in my opinion graduate a resident a year unless the orthopedists were apart of the residency. I do a bit of rearfoot and am pursuing certification - but its no where close to the majority of what I do. 1st MPJ fusion / lapidus is my most common case. There should be another podiatrist in town doing rearfoot but a rep suggested to me that they think he barely operates. He's years ahead of me and isn't ABFAS certified. Several of the older podiatrists are foot certified but they essentially exclusively do Austins and hammertoes. I looked and my partner has done one 1st MPJ fusion this year. One other podiatrist can do a lapidus but literally refers all 1st MPJ fusions to ortho. Two of the older pods in town are from everything I hear very questionable surgeons. We have a brand new podiatrist and I've been lead to believe from their own admission they are a weak surgeon and prefer wound care. From interacting with everyone in town - I really think I'm the only person who would enjoy interacting with residents. We are spread as a group across multiple private practices and 2 competing hospitals. If you looked at a map you'd say - that town has to have enough resources for a residency. Not without ortho or a major change in referrals. The town decades ago had a podiatry residency. It got shut down due to not being able to meet the rearfoot requirement of the time.

I won't reduce the amount of effort that goes into founding a school. I'm sure its a lot. But at the end of the day, the school ultimately gets paid student loan money. Yes, there's a unpaid time and effort to get things rolling. Once you start though - its not like you start with 5 students and work your way up. Ideally you start a class of 30-40 people working your way up to 50.

Meanwhile - most residencies graduate 2-3 residents a year. For all of the bad residencies and mills out there - a lot of residencies are a labor of love. Ask anyone who has let a resident or student do a case. The second a school opens a clock is ticking where residencies are going to need to be available 4 years. I don't know how CPME approves a residency but you sure as hell had better hope there's a tract record of DPMs in the group being able to do ankle fractures and calcaneal osteotomies so that RRA can be met. If the average residency size is 2 residents a year then you need to start 20-25 residencies to take those students. That means independently 20-25 hospitals have to devote the resources, find vascular surgeons, hospitalists etc who are willing to take on a resident. Presumably you need at least 5 podiatrists coming together and in a lot of situations they still wouldn't generate enough cases unless the bench was deeper with outside surgeons being available. Consider above - 7 pods and the volume still wouldn't be sufficient.

Where am I going with this. I think its a lot easier to graduate a bunch of students then it is to ensure they get the training they need. The schools are getting paid. The residency faculty really aren't unless they put their residents to work.

Worse - there's clearly an ENORMOUS leadership vacuum in this profession whereby crucial steps are not interconnected to each other. A podiatry student cannot become a podiatry attending without a residency but no one ensures the residencies will be there when they found a school. The cart is always before the horse.

There is a regular poster on this forum who says something that is technically true but that is ...painful to you as future podiatrists. Its some version of the following - CPME doesn't take into account the overall dynamics of the podiatry profession (residencies, jobs, demand) when they approve a school - they just ensure the school meets the accreditation requirements. Feels like someone else should have a say, but whatever.

How terrible will that be for you in the future when you don't have a residency? The failure to give you what you needed stretched literally years before you even started. A profession with all manner of organizations and groups and salaries and big whigs claiming to represent us as a group still allowed a school (2 schools!) to be formed and to take your money with essentially no thought given to how your training would be completed. It wasn't their job. It wasn't in any way something they were expected or required to offer. They simply got to collect your tuition money and then cut you to the wind. They threw parties. They gave speeches. Has anyone received a letter or a request from a podiatry organization saying "Hey guys, we need to start residencies for all these new students?" I haven't. Did anyone ask UTRGV to only take on a class of 10 for its first few years to ensure there would be residencies? I don't know but they didn't take on a class of 10 - they took on a class of like 27 right and they intend to take more this coming year.

You can dismiss the attendings on this forum but we are the only people who are actually worried about you. We are the only people saying - what's going to happen to those graduates. Everyone else is just cashing their paycheck.

The only thing that is going to save future graduates is the potential collapse of the application pool. If all the schools return to their normal matriculation habits - a terrible year is coming in 4 years. If students continue to see the light and no one applies then ya'll will be in an interesting situation for awhile (that will create other new different problems). My hope is there's only 300 applicants next year but I guess we'll see.

Podiatry doesn't deserve you. I'm not even touching the usual issues. Just residencies today. Do what you will but ask yourself - why aren't the leadership people talking about this? Why is this just an SDN discussion.

Beautifully said. Our professions leadership does not care about you. This is the truth. It’s the same 10-15 people who are involved in the same meetings making all these decisions.

CPME doesn’t care about you. They will form more schools if these schools come to the table and meet the criteria for accreditation.

These schools professors don’t care about you. Without your tuition dollars the schools don’t pay their salaries. This is why they are desperate and scared/threatened by the decrease in podiatry school applications. They don’t care about the profession they care about being fired because the school is not making enough money.

The majority of this profession is delusional and not in touch with the current issues. There are a lot of practicing podiatrists who are old and do toenails and very basic care. They are not involved and are letting this happen.

The only people who care about you are the young attendings in the attending forum. A lot of us graduated through the last residency shortage and it sucked. I had classmates that never matched. They graduated 4 years of podiatry school, passed boards, met the standard and still didn’t match. Western and the person responsible for creating the school created the last shortage and now he’s doing it again. Ironically the students who graduate from the new Texas school or LECOM might be the ones who don’t match. How fitting would that be?

Are these schools going to help you secure a residency spot when you did everything asked of you and didn’t match because there was a 100 spot residency shortage the year you graduated? The answer is…..NO.

 

[de Ribas]

Beautifully said. Our professions leadership does not care about you. This is the truth. It’s the same 10-15 people who are involved in the same meetings making all these decisions.

CPME doesn’t care about you. They will form more schools if these schools come to the table and meet the criteria for accreditation.

These schools professors don’t care about you. Without your tuition dollars the schools don’t pay their salaries. This is why they are desperate and scared/threatened by the decrease in podiatry school applications. They don’t care about the profession they care about being fired because the school is not making enough money.

The majority of this profession is delusional and not in touch with the current issues. There are a lot of practicing podiatrists who are old and do toenails and very basic care. They are not involved and are letting this happen.

The only people who care about you are the young attendings in the attending forum. A lot of us graduated through the last residency shortage and it sucked. I had classmates that never matched. They graduated 4 years of podiatry school, passed boards, met the standard and still didn’t match. Western and the person responsible for creating the school created the last shortage and now he’s doing it again. Ironically the students who graduate from the new Texas school or LECOM might be the ones who don’t match. How fitting would that be?

Are these schools going to help you secure a residency spot when you did everything asked of you and didn’t match because there was a 100 spot residency shortage the year you graduated? The answer is…..NO.

Pretty much all seats that go unmatched are at VA sites. I haven't counted how many total seats are left empty each year but I don't think it is enough for 27 more students from Texas school and however many from LECOM. Did they do their math? Are there enough residency seats total available for all potential graduates?

This shouldn't be hard to count. We know how many seats in each school and there should be a number of all residency seats. But even if there is enough seats, basically new schools will make weaker/unlucky students take those VA spots that's shouldn't exist in the first place.

 

[PTPuser]

There's no demand for podiatry like they say...there just isn't. Please don't drink the koo-laid like I did.

I was a tradesman with less than a year of schooling that I got for free cause my community needed someone to do the work. The job isn't physically grueling but my heart wasn't there. So I chased the medicine dream.

Now I am over 300K of debt and won't know if there will be a job out there for me in 3 years.

Each day I am faced with the idea of potentially dropping it all and going back to my old life. I don't love it but I will make more than an associate podiatrist.

I guess I'm lucky about the fact that I have something to fall back on. Most of you won't have that in the future so please, think hard before doing this and read from the posters above.

 

[wakaflocka88]

Pretty much all seats that go unmatched are at VA sites. I haven't counted how many total seats are left empty each year but I don't think it is enough for 27 more students from Texas school and however many from LECOM. Did they do their math? Are there enough residency seats total available for all potential graduates?

This shouldn't be hard to count. We know how many seats in each school and there should be a number of all residency seats. But even if there is enough seats, basically new schools will make weaker/unlucky students take those VA spots that's shouldn't exist in the first place.

Every year the same programs have unmatched seats because these programs are historically bad (lack of direction, support, case volume and usually gets filled by the bottom 10 students from each school or the over confident student who tried for a top program). Furthermore, lots of VA programs go unfilled as well, again for similar reasons above but most importantly they severely lack case volume and diversity. How can you expect two new schools graduating more students that will compete for the handful of good solid programs? In addition to an almost for sure residency shortage.

I feel really bad for the current and future students and residents. As a profession, podiatry is rewarding. But the constant influx of 600+ new grads (prior to UTRGV and LECOM) cripple the supply and demand for podiatrists. Our country does not need 600 new grads per year. This makes the profession as it currently and the foreseeable future very poor. Your school deans, professors, and attendings have no idea what the true reality is outside of their world.

I have no reason to sugar coat the reality.

 

[Pronation]

Your school deans, professors, and attendings have no idea what the true reality is outside of their world.

I disagree with you here. I think they know exactly what they are doing.

 

[podiatryresident]

There's no demand for podiatry like they say...there just isn't. Please don't drink the koo-laid like I did.

I was a tradesman with less than a year of schooling that I got for free cause my community needed someone to do the work. The job isn't physically grueling but my heart wasn't there. So I chased the medicine dream.

Now I am over 300K of debt and won't know if there will be a job out there for me in 3 years.

Each day I am faced with the idea of potentially dropping it all and going back to my old life. I don't love it but I will make more than an associate podiatrist.

I guess I'm lucky about the fact that I have something to fall back on. Most of you won't have that in the future so please, think hard before doing this and read from the posters above.

are you student or resident ? is it too late to go back ?

 

[bloxxeeey]

I think my biggest regret was going into podiatry. Yes I understand everyone here is talking about the tuition but the 4 years are grueling, my friends and family were out there living lives, moving up in their careers. Then comes residency and you work like a dog, it’s exhausting, your social life sucks, your salary sucks and your friends and family are taking vacations and buying homes. Then the job market is terrible, you’re realistically looking at a 80k job maybe 120k is honestly a pretty damn good salary for a lot of associates. My undergrad degree started me off with about 100k salary and I sure as hell would be making a lot more than 120k by now without loans or the stress I had to endure going through this field. Oh and I probably could live in a desirable place with my family instead of leaving to work in the middle of no where to make 120k so I can afford to pay my student loans. Opening these schools may push the salaries lower, more than likely I think you’ll see associate jobs start closer to 60-70k in about 5-10 years.

 

[DYK343]

If the Council on Podiatric Medical Education (or APMA) can prove to us that they have made residencies, or have a sound plan to make residencies, then I will delete this thread.

Until then it remains up to allow full disclosure of what is happening in podiatry.

 

[Pronation]

If the Council on Podiatric Medical Education (or APMA) can prove to us that they have made residencies, or have a sound plan to make residencies, then I will delete this thread.

Until then it remains up to allow full disclosure of what is happening in podiatry.

I would bet my finest gold plated and diamond encrusted nail nippers that this will never happen.

Gentleman, may your dremels always spin at high RPM.

 

[icebreaker32]

I think my biggest regret was going into podiatry. Yes I understand everyone here is talking about the tuition but the 4 years are grueling, my friends and family were out there living lives, moving up in their careers. Then comes residency and you work like a dog, it’s exhausting, your social life sucks, your salary sucks and your friends and family are taking vacations and buying homes. Then the job market is terrible, you’re realistically looking at a 80k job maybe 120k is honestly a pretty damn good salary for a lot of associates. My undergrad degree started me off with about 100k salary and I sure as hell would be making a lot more than 120k by now without loans or the stress I had to endure going through this field. Oh and I probably could live in a desirable place with my family instead of leaving to work in the middle of no where to make 120k so I can afford to pay my student loans. Opening these schools may push the salaries lower, more than likely I think you’ll see associate jobs start closer to 60-70k in about 5-10 years.

A way too common story.

For pre-pods with a good job or good undergraduate major like engineering or for someone who could also get into DO school podiatry has always been a risky choice.

Now with RNs in demand in addition to PAs and NPs I really question for exactly who this career makes sense. Yes some will do very well, but that is not guaranteed.

 

[Pronation]

A way too common story.

For pre-pods with a good job or good undergraduate major like engineering or for someone who could also get into DO school podiatry has always been a risky choice.

Now with RNs in demand in addition to PAs and NPs I really question for exactly who this career makes sense. Yes some will do very well, but that is not guaranteed.

Inb4 a certain politician mentions that there’s no guarantee with MD/DO/RN/NP/PA/garbage man.

 

[air bud]

I think my biggest regret was going into podiatry. Yes I understand everyone here is talking about the tuition but the 4 years are grueling, my friends and family were out there living lives, moving up in their careers. Then comes residency and you work like a dog, it’s exhausting, your social life sucks, your salary sucks and your friends and family are taking vacations and buying homes. Then the job market is terrible, you’re realistically looking at a 80k job maybe 120k is honestly a pretty damn good salary for a lot of associates. My undergrad degree started me off with about 100k salary and I sure as hell would be making a lot more than 120k by now without loans or the stress I had to endure going through this field. Oh and I probably could live in a desirable place with my family instead of leaving to work in the middle of no where to make 120k so I can afford to pay my student loans. Opening these schools may push the salaries lower, more than likely I think you’ll see associate jobs start closer to 60-70k in about 5-10 years.

You need to cut your losses and go back to your old job.

The thing I am continually amazed at as I learn more about how the real world works is people who go into other professions have so many different ways to interact with other people as they grow throughout their careers and sidestep into new professions new versions or expansions and offshoots. The problem with Podiatry is your always only going to be a podiatrist. At least MD or do can do asthetic stuff or concierge stuff or go off in different directions but even that's limited to what somebody who goes into another profession can do with the right attitude, connections and experience. And then the sky is the limit. Be a business owner. With Podiatry you're always going to be a podiatrist and at some point your income will always be limited even if you can get to 5 to 600,000. You can make a heck of a lot more and have a much better quality of life without the time effort lost income potential lost compounding that occurs.
On Twitter all the small business owners rolling up franchises, getting into real estate, the good kind not the idiots on tiktok talking about over leveraging themselves... You see all these guys quitting there 9:00 to 5:00 and going out and being an entrepreneur taking their kids to and from school building long-term income producing assets. But you don't see doctors doing that. Just remember when you you stopped working the money stops coming in. Accumulate assets that make you money when you're sleeping

 

[air bud]

Isn't this the pre-pod forum? Where are all the pre pods?

 

[deleted1093615]

Isn't this the pre-pod forum? Where are all the pre pods?

I’m a first year does that count

 

[de Ribas]

Isn't this the pre-pod forum? Where are all the pre pods?

Got them scared away. I notices that recently prepod forum was very silent. Hopefully that will stop new schools from opening.

 

[DexterMorganSK]

Oh and I probably could live in a desirable place with my family instead of leaving to work in the middle of no where to make 120k so I can afford to pay my student loans.

If you are making 120K after moving and living in the "middle of no where" then you are not doing something right.

 

[de Ribas]

Isn't this the pre-pod forum? Where are all the pre pods?

In 2017, there were about 260 threads in pre-pod forum
In 2018 - 170 threads
In 2019 around 130
In 2020 - 114
In 2021 - 74
And in 2022 around 34 threads in the whole year.

I think overall interest and applicant numbers follows similar trend. I doubt that this year or next year there will be more than 700 applicants. Basically 1 applicant for 1 seat. Or, everyone who applies gets in. We just need to get rid off application system, personal essay, MCAT requirement, LORs, undergrad college transcripts verifications, interviews. Why we need them if everyone who applies still gets in. Lol

 

[diabeticfootdr]

Very disappointing to see the same 10-15 posters relentlessly try to tear down the profession.

There is actually a surplus of residencies now. So much so that CPME had to change the rules on if a slot is unfilled for 3 years it’s automatically closed.

The anonymous members who post here keep writing how successful they are, yet discouraging others from joining the profession. It’s very strange. Maybe even anti-competitive.

Every profession can be improved. Some decide just to bash it on forums. Instead, why don’t you become an APMA delegate and bring up resolutions in the House of Delegates?

The best advice I can give pre-pods is to do research from reliable sources and shadow a podiatrist. Talk to someone you can verify is an actual podiatrist before you heed the advice from the dark web.

 

[deleted1093615]

I took this advice and randomly called 20+ offices across the country. Spoke with practice managers as well as the podiatrists.
everyone was happy to speak with me and very pleasant on the phone.
the majority told me they felt they didn’t make enough money especially in the areas they wanted to live. and had they known how hard it would be AFTER 7 years of training to make money they would think twice. When I told them our tuition prices they couldn’t believe it. said it was a ‘questionable’ ROI.
as A student I feel somewhat Stuck to this route because of debt I’ve already taken on
just hoping two new schools doesn’t devalue my hard earned skill in the future and make starting salaries even lower.

 

[Feli]

I took this advice and randomly called 20+ offices across the country. Spoke with practice managers as well as the podiatrists.
everyone was happy to speak with me and very pleasant on the phone.
the majority told me they felt they didn’t make enough money especially in the areas they wanted to live. and had they known how hard it would be AFTER 7 years of training to make money they would think twice. When I told them our tuition prices they couldn’t believe it. said it was a ‘questionable’ ROI.
as A student I feel somewhat Stuck to this route because of debt I’ve already taken on
just hoping two new schools doesn’t devalue my hard earned skill in the future and make starting salaries even lower.

This is about right. ^^
I agree shadowing is always the best way to go - for any profession or prospective job, serious decision, etc.

You can still stack the deck in your favor with good training, pass all boards, network, etc.
It is available to get great DPM training, but it's certainly not unlimited or to be assumed as it is with MD and most DO matriculants. A lot of podiatry residencies are not good ones, unfortunately. Many were hastily created in the 1990s and early 2000s so that "all grads get 3 year training." Some are excellent. Now, with new schools, it will be an even smaller % that are high quality in terms of surgery numbers, board prep, etc. That's too bad... but anyone in pod school or starting should aim for those. Getting a low quality residency is not always a kiss of death - as some SDN members can certainly attest, but it can be rough. A(nother) residency shortage would be a total disaster. We are judged by our lowest common denominator.

In the end, every profession is a number game. We already have a significant shortage of good residencies, and we started 4 new podiatry schools in about 20 years... with only 7 schools for many years before that. That's a big jump. The high or low quality of the schools is of very little matter; most skills are learned in residency anyways, and all schools make more DPMs... almost certainly without more good residencies. More of a certain language translator = lower wages for them, a rare and desired trade skill = higher wages for those contractors, more EV car makers = lower EV costs and lower profit margins, etc etc. Pure and simple.

Practicing attorneys or practicing pharmacists didn't ruin their supply/demand. They just did their degree and do their job or run their business. It's largely on the leadership to manage the numbers of supply and demand and colleges or to dilute the ranks with greed. So yeah, definitely don't buy into that blaming the workers for the assembly line problems

Anti-competive? Myth... I will probably be retired or quite close to it before the two new schools' grads are done with residency. It's a simple issue of common sense and math and looking at job markets and compensation in other professions. It is just not ideal to talk to DPMs as potential associates who plainly tell you at the job interview or soon after that they have failed ABFAS qual, they have 300, 400k, etc debt, and want to make sure their sign bonus comes soon. Any noble profession can be watered down to embarrassment of both training and income if given the circumstance. We will have more practicing DPMs than orthopedists by 2030. I hear we DPMs treat the foot; they treat whole-body MSK. I also hear average incomes of the two are not close... can't say I predict they get any closer given the metrics upcoming.

 

[DYK343]

I would like to once again link this article that shows what happened in the past and what could happen in the future. Same article is linked above. Source is the APMA. Not the "dark web".

I hope there is no shortage. I really do. But until the APMA/AACPM can prove they will have enough residency slots to graduate prepods need to know what they are getting into.

It literally happened 10 years ago with one school opening with ~50 graduates. Now TWO schools are opening.

To Prepods who are just now looking into this: Diabeticfootdr's self proclaimed idol and mentor is the same man who started Western AND the Texas school. There is significant bias there.

I agree get out and shadow if interested. Ask practicing pods their opinion on opening 2 new schools and what happened with the western residency shortage 10 years ago. Ask them if they think it could or will happen again.

DiabeticFootDr I am asking you to show us documents on how residencies will be generated to meet the upcoming demand from two new schools. Being president of the APMA I hope you have first hand knowledge in this. I promise to delete the post and lock the thread/ask mods to remove if you can prove to us what the plan actually is.

 

[Feli]

If you are making 120K after moving and living in the "middle of no where" then you are not doing something right.

Correct, if anyone has passed BQ/BC (the one that matters), probably browse classifieds or talk to some friends.
If such a DPM likes SW USA, you can contact me PM or the group I work for (my sig)... or many others that are similar. Big ones nearly always have a need for good workers.... smaller good groups will from time to time also.

100, 120... even 150, 200/yr is still not amazing with the current loan burdens, though... double not amazing if you are trying to be sole bread winner (which is not unreasonable for 7yrs grad school + PG). I think THAT is the bottom line here.

 

[Pronation]

Very disappointing to see the same 10-15 posters relentlessly try to tear down the profession.

There is actually a surplus of residencies now. So much so that CPME had to change the rules on if a slot is unfilled for 3 years it’s automatically closed.

The anonymous members who post here keep writing how successful they are, yet discouraging others from joining the profession. It’s very strange. Maybe even anti-competitive.

Every profession can be improved. Some decide just to bash it on forums. Instead, why don’t you become an APMA delegate and bring up resolutions in the House of Delegates?

The best advice I can give pre-pods is to do research from reliable sources and shadow a podiatrist. Talk to someone you can verify is an actual podiatrist before you heed the advice from the dark web.

Quite the coincidence that a majority of the posters on this public forum disagree with you. Doesn’t take a rocket surgeon to search google jobs and see that the podiatry job market is hot garbage. But sure, keep being disappointed that your malicious agenda is being called out.

 

[heybrother]

If we all magically became APMA delegates - could we have stopped the new schools from opening?

 

[PatchAdamsFan]

Doesn’t take a rocket surgeon

Although my skill set is unique, I concur.

 

[wakaflocka88]

Very disappointing to see the same 10-15 posters relentlessly try to tear down the profession.

There is actually a surplus of residencies now. So much so that CPME had to change the rules on if a slot is unfilled for 3 years it’s automatically closed.

The anonymous members who post here keep writing how successful they are, yet discouraging others from joining the profession. It’s very strange. Maybe even anti-competitive.

Every profession can be improved. Some decide just to bash it on forums. Instead, why don’t you become an APMA delegate and bring up resolutions in the House of Delegates?

The best advice I can give pre-pods is to do research from reliable sources and shadow a podiatrist. Talk to someone you can verify is an actual podiatrist before you heed the advice from the dark web.

I respectfully disagree. As Feli said, we can just continue on with our fortunate success and let the next gen figure it out themselves - for better or for worse. But we choose to spend our time educating others in an online forum.

I welcome students and residents to shadow me all the time. I will gladly show them real data and numbers but many of us have asked you to show us the data on the surplus of residencies and/or new programs that will be created to accommodate two new schools? You didn’t have to worry about the 2010 shortage match Like DYK343 has mentioned many times. Only he has the right to tell it as is what a nightmare that was. And the other grads that failed to match because the profession failed them because of greed. This is a fact.

Again, a surplus of programs doesn’t matter if the majority of them are bad. Bad as in - low volume, lack of varied pathology, lack of support from the top to the bottom and so on. We can all peruse the residency program review thread in the Pod Student section and while anonymous, gives a good glimpse of how bad some programs truly are but still allowed to operate even after CPME review. Doesn’t make sense. Pre pods - you can work as hard as possible while in school and achieve high but no guarantee you will land a reputable solid residency program. Other MD/DO specialities actually have a fairly standardized level of exposure and training in their residency programs amongst most specialities unlike podiatry. One program can be doing nails and wounds only for 3 years while others are varied. That shouldn’t even be up for debate as to why some programs should be closed down.

Are we going to compare the quality of training at Wyckoff in NY that routinely scrambles 4 slots per year versus a reputable program that produces good quality pods yearly such as JPS, Legacy, Kaiser? My good friend scrambled to a random program in NY and his stories were nothing short of a nightmare program with its only purpose of using pod residents as slave labor. Why does CPME still allow a program like this to exist? Will APMA step in to correct it so the residents don’t have to inhale another minute of fungal spores?

Pre-pods: feel free to DM me and reach out if you like to shadow and or have questions about the profession.

I will also show you my pay stubs from my first job which was not very glamorous. Sounds good on paper but not so much in reality. I’m sorry if the Instagram pages of ACPM/APMA/ABFAS/ student influencers bamboozled you but this is not the path to a get rich success of driving your dream Lambo and stacking cheddar on day 1 after residency. This is my opinion and I can back it up with real data, dark web or not. If the governing leaders want us to stop being so negative on an online forum, they can step up and give real info. But they choose not to. How are you pre-pods suppose to access reliable, ethical information then? Not hard to come to your own conclusion

 

[Pronation]

Likewise I would be happy to allow a pre pod to shadow me. I would also be happy to show my paystubs from when I was in private practice demonstrating my nurse’s equivalent salary. I would also be happy to demonstrate my year and a half long search history (about 3-5 apps weekly) for a non garbage private practice job.

 

[SouthPod7]

Unfortunately I have to throw my own awful experience on top of this. My first job out of residency was terrible. I was grossly underpaid and abused. I started my first job search at end of 2nd year in residency. COVID certainly didn't help. I got this job I have now through a lucky Google search after months of sending out applications DAILY. It was without a doubt one of the most stressful times in my life. If it wasn't for the student loan payment pause I might not have made my rent. How is that appropriate for a "surgeon"? I made a thread about it about 2 years ago that I recommend prospective pre-pods search for.

The other thing to remember is that this poor job market is always a factor and it doesn't just impact your first job. It impacts your entire career. Like other posters mentioned, it took many of them awhile to find their first job and many of them would be in trouble for weeks/months if they lost their current position. It also makes it harder to leave a 150k+ position for whatever reason because you will likely be taking a pay cut as an associate unless you spend a long time finding something comparable. For 7 years of hard work after undergrad no it just isn't worth it.

Prospective pre-pods: Please take an extra year or two to study for the MCAT and get better grades and aim for DO school. I promise you can do it. Don't gamble your life away like I did.

 

[icebreaker32]

Very disappointing to see the same 10-15 posters relentlessly try to tear down the profession.

There is actually a surplus of residencies now. So much so that CPME had to change the rules on if a slot is unfilled for 3 years it’s automatically closed.

The anonymous members who post here keep writing how successful they are, yet discouraging others from joining the profession. It’s very strange. Maybe even anti-competitive.

Every profession can be improved. Some decide just to bash it on forums. Instead, why don’t you become an APMA delegate and bring up resolutions in the House of Delegates?

The best advice I can give pre-pods is to do research from reliable sources and shadow a podiatrist. Talk to someone you can verify is an actual podiatrist before you heed the advice from the dark web.

You seem like a nice guy with a good sense of humor doing your best to train your residents and fellows. I applaud that. Promoting podiatry for what it can be is fine, but one should knows what it is really like also. If we had different career paths and had your job we might be saying things similar to you. We are not perpetually miserable people that hate our life. Many of us are doing good. We have nothing financial to gain by what pre-pods are doing. We have seen what many of our friends have gone through and many of us have also been through our fair share also. The truth might hurt, but pre-pods should know the good and the bad the comes with a career in podiatry.

Shadowing a podiatrist is wise and probably mandated by most schools. You want to make sure you will enjoy the specialty as it is a long and expensive career path. Most typically shadow a highly visible and successful podiatrist, which is not necessarily representative of a typical podiatrist.

Every profession has its problems. Podiatry unfortunately has more than its fair share.

Demand is not decreasing for podiatry, but it has not had the incredible increase in demand either like many other healthcare professions. There is a serious labor shortage in many healthcare fields resulting in a great job market. There are many great jobs in many other healthcare professions that go unfilled with no end in sight.

No one has ever been guaranteed a great residency or a great job in podiatry. No good job ever goes unfilled. Not in the past and not now. The ROI is currently questionable compared to many other healthcare professions and careers. Many cities are saturated.

I strongly feels we should limit enrollment to below 300, ideally to 200 and it would solve the majority of problems....not for selfish reasons, but for the profession and future podiatrists. The schools obviously will not support this. The APMA would not. I do not think ACFAS and ABPM would like it too much either. The AACPM can not do anything, and I do feel them stating LECOM with help fill unmet podiatric demand is not just saying what is expected from the board position, it goes beyond that is and is a very big lie. Enrollment will be way too high if all seats at all schools are filled. The only thing stopping that right now are less applicants.

Pre-pods need to know podiatry is not anywhere close to the job market of MDs, DOs, RNs, PAs, NPs, CRNAs etc. Honestly not even remotely close. They need to know many areas are saturated. They need to know associate pay is often low. If one wants to take the risk they will be one of the better trained and are geographically open or are open to opening an office, despite it being more difficult than years past and limited capital availability then it might be a good career choice.

Practicing the specialty itself is just fine if one is not working at a nail mill or nursing homes. The majority will end up doing well enough eventually, but way too many go through way too much to get there. Many would have been way better off with less debt, less stress and less years spent on this career path. We all know a few that have even left the profession and I am not talking due to losing their license, but simply due to frustration with the profession and the job market.

You would think podiatry would be better off with 3 year residencies for all (currently), but with the current job market it just makes the ROI worse. Many are now doing fellowships solely because of the poor job market which does not help the ROI either.

 

[DYK343]

I honestly believe our voice is louder here publically on the "dark web" than behind closed walls of the APMA house of delegates.

The APMA tried to get APMA members to inorganically come here and post positive reviews via a email sent to APMA members (attached)

It backfired and the majority of the people (everyone except who wrote the article) who came to post agreed the profession is in serious trouble right now.

Im not financially benefiting from scaring away new grads that will graduate in 8 years from now.

I feel APMA/Leadership is sweeping major issues under the rug and falsly promiting the profession to potential applicants.

Again show us that there is no pending residency crisis and ill take this post down.

 

[bloxxeeey]

You would think podiatry would be better off with 3 year residencies for all (currently), but with the current job market it just makes the ROI worse. Many are now doing fellowships solely because of the poor job market which does not help the ROI either.

I think podiatry is moving towards 3 years of residency and a fellowship becoming the norm, I've seen so many graduates and former classmates who completed residency go on to do fellowships. Not sure what the opinion of this forum is but I've been heavily pressured to consider it.

 

[DYK343]

I think podiatry is moving towards 3 years of residency and a fellowship becoming the norm, I've seen so many graduates and former classmates who completed residency go on to do fellowships. Not sure what the opinion of this forum is but I've been heavily pressured to consider it.

I agree it is moving that way. ACFAS has really pushed for it.

Opening fellowships over residencies will also hurt the residency problem.

 

[deleted1138023]

In 2017, there were about 260 threads in pre-pod forum
In 2018 - 170 threads
In 2019 around 130
In 2020 - 114
In 2021 - 74
And in 2022 around 34 threads in the whole year.

I think overall interest and applicant numbers follows similar trend. I doubt that this year or next year there will be more than 700 applicants. Basically 1 applicant for 1 seat. Or, everyone who applies gets in. We just need to get rid off application system, personal essay, MCAT requirement, LORs, undergrad college transcripts verifications, interviews. Why we need them if everyone who applies still gets in. Lol

unfortunately when I was a pre-pod SDN was much more positive and I got suckered in. now the realities and truth is being spread and hopefully applicants avoid the mistake that most of us made.. I wish I could go back in time and do something else.

 

[DYK343]

unfortunately when I was a pre-pod SDN was much more positive and I got suckered in. now the realities and truth is being spread and hopefully applicants avoid the mistake that most of us made.. I wish I could go back in time and do something else.

Honestly I think you will be fine if you've already started. The first few years might be rough as is common for many in the field but you should be able to secure good employment. This forum can get pretty negative about income but the jobs are there especially once board certified.

I would be extremely reluctant to matriculate in the coming classes due to the surplus of graduates as ive ranted and raved about above. You're going to beat this by at least 1 year and will have a 1up on the job market.

If youre already in school I strongly suggest taking a break from the forum and concentrate on training and obtaining the best residency you can get. Dont forget to take some personal time to exercise regularly and have a little fun along the way. It will help your grades and personality/stress level more than you think.

 

[air bud]

I took this advice and randomly called 20+ offices across the country. Spoke with practice managers as well as the podiatrists.everyone was happy to speak with me and very pleasant on the phone.
the majority told me they felt they didn’t make enough money especially in the areas they wanted to live. and had they known how hard it would be AFTER 7 years of training to make money they would think twice. When I told them our tuition prices they couldn’t believe it. said it was a ‘questionable’ ROI.
as A student I feel somewhat Stuck to this route because of debt I’ve already taken on
just hoping two new schools doesn’t devalue my hard earned skill in the future and make starting salaries even lower.

First year? Plenty of time to get out. The interest you will acrrue on future loans is way more than you would lose out on walking away from 1 year of pod tuition.

 

[air bud]

Prepods just have no concept of the duality that can exist in type of available jobs. A pathologist has the same job in LA as they do in Bloomington Illinois. Same as ER, Ortho etc. Private Practice Ortho is basically the same as MSG Employed. But generally speaking there is a world of difference between Hospital/MSG podiatry vs private practice. To be clear this doesn't mean one is better or more important. But more so in terms of compensation. You don't have Ortho coming out and some making 300k and some making 600k. But you do haves a few pods coming out making 250k in a hospital with 401k match/employer contribution being maxed out, HSA, tuition repayment 100k 5 years, 75% plus percent health insurance paid. the vast majority are making 120k, no match, no employer contribution, crappy 7500 health insurance deductible with no contribution.

My first job:

200k base then 45-50% of collections, 90 % health premium paid, employer side of 401k maxed out to 37k, HSA, country club membership paid first 3 years, 25k signing, 10k moving

My second job:

214k base, 401k w/4 percent match, 457b available, HSA, 50% health insurance paid, HSA, 100k student loan repayment over 5 years, 60k signing, 15k moving

You get the point. Sounds great. Anyone want to guess how many jobs are available a year for new pods? 25 to 40? The other 500+ plus jobs are 100k no Benny's.

This discrepancy should be enough to turn students away from this profession. There is a significant chance that you get a terrible return on your investment. I understand there is life after the first few years in private practice and you have to have to look at the big picture. But as many people on here can testify too, it is soul crushing to put in the time and effort, sacrifice your younger years, the power of compounding etc and then finally think you have made it to the other side....to be greeted with life as pod associate.

And anyone older than 30 who thinks about this path is even dumber. You don't have time to catch up to your peers that became an engineer, an accountant, a lineman. The power of time and compounding.

 

[de Ribas]

I would like to once again link this article that shows what happened in the past and what could happen in the future. Same article is linked above. Source is the APMA. Not the "dark web".

I hope there is no shortage. I really do. But until the APMA/AACPM can prove they will have enough residency slots to graduate prepods need to know what they are getting into.

It literally happened 10 years ago with one school opening with ~50 graduates. Now TWO schools are opening.

To Prepods who are just now looking into this: Diabeticfootdr's self proclaimed idol and mentor is the same man who started Western AND the Texas school. There is significant bias there.

I agree get out and shadow if interested. Ask practicing pods their opinion on opening 2 new schools and what happened with the western residency shortage 10 years ago. Ask them if they think it could or will happen again.

DiabeticFootDr I am asking you to show us documents on how residencies will be generated to meet the upcoming demand from two new schools. Being president of the APMA I hope you have first hand knowledge in this. I promise to delete the post and lock the thread/ask mods to remove if you can prove to us what the plan actually is.

He mentions residencies going unfilled, but most of them are very poor quality VA programs and others very undesirable programs. Why should they even stay open?

 

[DYK343]

He mentions residencies going unfilled, but most of them are very poor quality VA programs and others very undesirable programs. Why should they even stay open?

I believe they aim for 110% residencies to graduates. That waxes and wanes every year with programs closing and new ones opening or current programs expanding.

10% is not going to compensate the upcoming surge.

 

[wakaflocka88]

Prepods just have no concept of the duality that can exist in type of available jobs. A pathologist has the same job in LA as they do in Bloomington Illinois. Same as ER, Ortho etc. Private Practice Ortho is basically the same as MSG Employed. But generally speaking there is a world of difference between Hospital/MSG podiatry vs private practice. To be clear this doesn't mean one is better or more important. But more so in terms of compensation. You don't have Ortho coming out and some making 300k and some making 600k, vs a few pods coming out making 250k in a hospital with 401k match/employer contribution being maxed out, HSA, tuition repayment 100k 5 years, 75% plus percent health insurance paid or or the vast majority making 100k, no match, no employer contribution, crappy 7500 health insurance deductible with no contribution.

My first job:

200k base then 45-50% of collections, 90 % health premium paid, employer side of 401k maxed out to 37k, HSA, country club membership paid first 3 years, 25k signing, 10k moving

My second job:

214k base, 401k w/4 percent match, 457b available, HSA, 50% health insurance paid, HSA, 100k student loan repayment over 5 years, 60k signing, 15k moving

You get the point. Sounds great. Anyone want to guess how many jobs are available a year for new pods? 25 to 40? The other 500+ plus jobs are 100k no Benny's.

This discrepancy should be enough to turn students away from this profession. It is a terrible return on your investment. I understand there is life after the first few years in private practice and you have to have to look at the big picture. But as many people on here can testify too, it is soul crushing to put in the time and effort, sacrifice your younger years, the power of compounding etc and then finally think you have made it to the other side....to be greeted with life as pod associate.

And anyone older than 30 who thinks about this path is even dumber. You don't have time to catch up to your peers that became an engineer, an accountant, a lineman. The power of time and compounding.

There it is, pre pods. A regular poster with real data and numbers to show you. Ask APMA to publish this type of data, you deserve to know.

 

[de Ribas]

I think podiatry is moving towards 3 years of residency and a fellowship becoming the norm, I've seen so many graduates and former classmates who completed residency go on to do fellowships. Not sure what the opinion of this forum is but I've been heavily pressured to consider it.

How many total fellowship positions are out there? Why would I go to a fellowship with poorer quality of training than my residency? Just to say that I am fellowship-trained? If you look at fellowships there are only a few that are worth to go for. And they are always taken by certain programs because of connections. Most others are PP slavery without formal high quality surgical training or education.

It is sad what is happening with fellowships being pushed now. It only makes sense for those that ended up at poor quality residency programs. But they get to advertise as fellowship-trained even though they would have done less amount and less rear foot cases than someone who only completes 3-year but good quality residency. So messed up.

 

[icebreaker32]

How many total fellowship positions are out there? Why would I go to a fellowship with poorer quality of training than my residency? Just to say that I am fellowship-trained? If you look at fellowships there are only a few that are worth to go for. And they are always taken by certain programs because of connections. Most others are PP slavery without formal high quality surgical training or education.

It is sad what is happening with fellowships being pushed now. It only makes sense for those that ended up at poor quality residency programs. But they get to advertise as fellowship-trained even though they would have done less amount and less rear foot cases than someone who only completes 3-year but good quality residency. So messed up.

Why? Because the fear the few good jobs soon may start requiring it or it will be an edge in the always competitive job market.

Many worried about having the PSR 24 and 36 back in the day when many only got a one year non surgical residency and some not at all.....and could actually still practice in many states.

Podiatry creates a constant situation of haves and have nots within training . The main reason is because the job market is so bad it becomes a $&@@ measuring contest of training along with the usual mix of connections, charisma and luck. If all the residencies are the same in theory, one differentiates themselves now with their training by adding fellowships and their board qualified ABFAS status, then eventually with some experience and their ABFAS board certified status.

Many are still completely self made and start their own practice, although it is getting more difficult. It really matters less if you are just going to do this in most parts of the country....ABPM often works fine for this.

If there were enough fairly equal good jobs for all none of this would matter that much.

 

[de Ribas]

If there were enough fairly equal good jobs for all none of this would matter that much.

Good point. True. Fellowship trend is just another proof there is tight competition for not so many good jobs out there.

 

[icebreaker32]

The boards themselves promote this also. Now that everyone does the same residency in theory. ABFAS/ACFAS can have more of their fellows completing fellowships in addition to their more rigorous process.

ABPM then creates CAQs and some limb fellowships. To create their own haves for hospital and academic jobs.

It never ends and the line is always blurred on what is needed to get a good job versus just wanting an area of expertise. Usually more the former than later.

 

[air bud]

There it is, pre pods. A regular poster with real data and numbers to show you. Ask APMA to publish this type of data, you deserve to know.

Now granted this was a few years ago, but this is almost as good as it gets for a new grad and you have what a one in 15 or 1 in 20 chance of getting a job like that. For $300,000 worth of debt and 7 years of your life? And even get contracts like that I had to go to the middle of nowhere.

The real data we need is people chiming in with the associate contracts and what they signed for because that's the reality for the large majority of graduating podiatrists.

More stories like a regular poster on here who worked in a large Texas metro area for 3 years and didn't even make more than $100,000 a year working for other podiatrists even though he had great training. Despite being very very short and thinking he knows way more about non Podiatry stuff than he really does he was able to get a job now making close to 400,000 but it's not working for other pods and it required moving to a much smaller area although it does check a lot of boxes

 

[podiatryresident]

Very disappointing to see the same 10-15 posters relentlessly try to tear down the profession.

There is actually a surplus of residencies now. So much so that CPME had to change the rules on if a slot is unfilled for 3 years it’s automatically closed.

The anonymous members who post here keep writing how successful they are, yet discouraging others from joining the profession. It’s very strange. Maybe even anti-competitive.

Every profession can be improved. Some decide just to bash it on forums. Instead, why don’t you become an APMA delegate and bring up resolutions in the House of Delegates?

The best advice I can give pre-pods is to do research from reliable sources and shadow a podiatrist. Talk to someone you can verify is an actual podiatrist before you heed the advice from the dark web.

Hi doc, if this is good career, no one can tear it down!