2022-2023 Michigan State

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444zane3 said:
Can anyone speak on the academic differences between GR and EL campus?

I remember hearing that GR is better for research but idk if that's just an assumption based on the facilities being newer.
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I would like to know this also
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444zane3 said:
Can anyone speak on the academic differences between GR and EL campus?

I remember hearing that GR is better for research but idk if that's just an assumption based on the facilities being newer.
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Academically, there is virtually no difference between GR & EL. You will take the same classes, do the same assignments, etc. There is no difference as far as the curriculum is concerned between these two campuses.

Whether one campus is better for research than the other, that is somewhat less clear and is dependent on your interests. Anything primary-care related (including psych) will have plenty of opportunities at either campus, as both campuses have home residencies in primary care specialties. One major difference would probably be in ortho research, as GR is the location of CHM's home ortho residency, and is the place that matches CHM ortho applicants most consistently. EL is still, as far as I know, home to the Office of Medical Education Research & Development (OMERAD) so epidemiological & medical education research is potentially easier to get involved with in EL. The School of Public Health is located in Flint, so EL will be closest to that if you're interested in biostats, disparities research, etc. EL is also much closer to Ann Arbor, and I know several classmates interested in small, highly competitive specialties who pursued research through UofM.

Something to note, Spectrum just merged with Beaumont creating a new hospital system called Corewell Health or something, so being in GR will probably make networking easier within this system if you are interested in residency in Western Michigan & the outer suburbs of Detroit. Sparrow Hospital in EL just got bought by the University of Michigan Health System, so that might open doors into the vast UofM research system that was otherwise accessed simply by cold-emailing researchers in Ann Arbor.

As someone who did M1 & M2 in EL, and as someone who just completed the match process and matched into a T10 in my specialty, I can confidently say that being in EL vs. GR had no impact on the quality of my medical education and did not put me at a disadvantage/advantage compared to students in GR. Because CHM is not specifically a research-focused medical school, the onus is on you to find opportunities throughout M1-M3 that align with your goals. If you know / anticipate that you will be applying to a competitive specialty, then it is best to start reaching out to researchers / residents in a program within Michigan / follow up with your undergrad research labs / etc. if you know that research will be an important component of your residency application. Some of my classmates reached out to UofM, some reached out to residents at Spectrum/Sparrow, some started their own projects, and some continued to work with their undergrad labs.

Edited to add: A lot of research in medical school can be done virtually / remotely, so being in GR does not preclude you from doing research with people in EL, Flint, Detroit, Ann Arbor, etc. and being in EL does not preclude you from doing ortho research in GR if you want. Even in the situation where they would want to meet in person, GR & EL are only an hour away and it's not like you would need to go every weekend or anything.
 
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chmradbasement said:
Academically, there is virtually no difference between GR & EL. You will take the same classes, do the same assignments, etc. There is no difference as far as the curriculum is concerned between these two campuses.

Whether one campus is better for research than the other, that is somewhat less clear and is dependent on your interests. Anything primary-care related (including psych) will have plenty of opportunities at either campus, as both campuses have home residencies in primary care specialties. One major difference would probably be in ortho research, as GR is the location of CHM's home ortho residency, and is the place that matches CHM ortho applicants most consistently. EL is still, as far as I know, home to the Office of Medical Education Research & Development (OMERAD) so epidemiological & medical education research is potentially easier to get involved with in EL. The School of Public Health is located in Flint, so EL will be closest to that if you're interested in biostats, disparities research, etc. EL is also much closer to Ann Arbor, and I know several classmates interested in small, highly competitive specialties who pursued research through UofM.

Something to note, Spectrum just merged with Beaumont creating a new hospital system called Corewell Health or something, so being in GR will probably make networking easier within this system if you are interested in residency in Western Michigan & the outer suburbs of Detroit. Sparrow Hospital in EL just got bought by the University of Michigan Health System, so that might open doors into the vast UofM research system that was otherwise accessed simply by cold-emailing researchers in Ann Arbor.

As someone who did M1 & M2 in EL, and as someone who just completed the match process and matched into a T10 in my specialty, I can confidently say that being in EL vs. GR had no impact on the quality of my medical education and did not put me at a disadvantage/advantage compared to students in GR. Because CHM is not specifically a research-focused medical school, the onus is on you to find opportunities throughout M1-M3 that align with your goals. If you know / anticipate that you will be applying to a competitive specialty, then it is best to start reaching out to researchers / residents in a program within Michigan / follow up with your undergrad research labs / etc. if you know that research will be an important component of your residency application. Some of my classmates reached out to UofM, some reached out to residents at Spectrum/Sparrow, some started their own projects, and some continued to work with their undergrad labs.
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I see that for particular residencies that are home programs for MSU a lot of them have a preference for DOs. Would it be possible to still match into these home programs like ortho or urology as an MD?
 
cytomegalovirus123 said:
I see that for particular residencies that are home programs for MSU a lot of them have a preference for DOs. Would it be possible to still match into these home programs like ortho or urology as an MD?
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I'm not familiar with urology specifically but I know that a lot of the programs in Michigan that are MSU affiliated do tend to be DO-heavy and are probably historically partnered with MSU-COM rather than CHM. This is entirely speculation though. I know when I was interviewing, I (and friends) did secure interviews at DO-heavy MSU programs such as McLaren/Oakland/MSU, McLaren/McComb/MSU, and the various Ascension hospitals in metro Detroit. Because the MD & DO match merged a couple of years ago, you are free to apply to any and all residency programs regardless of historical MD/DO distinction. I will say that there is self-selection in these programs both in terms of the programs themselves and the applicants, where they tend to interview MDs less frequently and MDs tend to rank them lower (and hence match elsewhere), all else being equal. Officially, it is still 100% possible to match there if that is what you want to do, but the state of Michigan has a lot of DOs and a lot of historically DO residencies (including the residencies at Spectrum, although these are trending more MD-heavy) so when the time comes to apply I would focus my energies on programs that match at least 50/50 MD/DO or higher, depending on what your scores/research/network/etc. looks like at the end of M3.

FWIW, for the competitive specialties like ortho & uro, the Michigan programs that are not affiliated with CHM such as Beaumont & Henry Ford (which will be MSU-affiliated for the upcoming match cycle) do tend to take CHM students, albeit not every year.
 
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chmradbasement said:
I'm not familiar with urology specifically but I know that a lot of the programs in Michigan that are MSU affiliated do tend to be DO-heavy and are probably historically partnered with MSU-COM rather than CHM. This is entirely speculation though. I know when I was interviewing, I (and friends) did secure interviews at DO-heavy MSU programs such as McLaren/Oakland/MSU, McLaren/McComb/MSU, and the various Ascension hospitals in metro Detroit. Because the MD & DO match merged a couple of years ago, you are free to apply to any and all residency programs regardless of historical MD/DO distinction. I will say that there is self-selection in these programs both in terms of the programs themselves and the applicants, where they tend to interview MDs less frequently and MDs tend to rank them lower (and hence match elsewhere), all else being equal. Officially, it is still 100% possible to match there if that is what you want to do, but the state of Michigan has a lot of DOs and a lot of historically DO residencies (including the residencies at Spectrum, although these are trending more MD-heavy) so when the time comes to apply I would focus my energies on programs that match at least 50/50 MD/DO or higher, depending on what your scores/research/network/etc. looks like at the end of M3.

FWIW, for the competitive specialties like ortho & uro, the Michigan programs that are not affiliated with CHM such as Beaumont & Henry Ford (which will be MSU-affiliated for the upcoming match cycle) do tend to take CHM students, albeit not every year.
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Thank you so much for the info!
 
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Any ms2,ms3, ms4 know how the system is regarding placement for LCE? If I am not in any of the certificate program does that mean that I will be in GR for all 4 years?
 
If I am interested in health care policy would EL be a better option bc of the capitol?
 
Has anyone heard about when financial aid is released and when we get our award letters? A lot of the current students said that msu takes forever because they're understaffed but they also said that msu is pretty generous (to in state students at least)
 
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fullblownrig said:
Has anyone heard about when financial aid is released and when we get our award letters? A lot of the current students said that msu takes forever because they're understaffed but they also said that msu is pretty generous (to in state students at least)
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in the pdf in the A email, it said last week of April 😬
 
Does anybody know how to find the student portal? I got an email about financial aid information and it said to access the "student portal" but I have no idea how to find the student portal? Am I just being an idiot?
 
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futuremdpls said:
Does anybody know how to find the student portal? I got an email about financial aid information and it said to access the "student portal" but I have no idea how to find the student portal? Am I just being an idiot?
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If I am looking at things correctly, this is the landing page for the financial aid portal: SIS | Michigan State University. I previously set up my account via the netID website using the PID and PAN that were sent, and then logged into this SIS portal linked above.
 
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mcstudentdoc said:
If I am looking at things correctly, this is the landing page for the financial aid portal: SIS | Michigan State University. I previously set up my account via the netID website using the PID and PAN that were sent, and then logged into this SIS portal linked above.
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When did you get the PID and PAN? I’m still waiting for mine. I emailed them about it but they haven’t responded
 
dreamzchaser said:
When did you get the PID and PAN? I’m still waiting for mine. I emailed them about it but they haven’t responded
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For me, the PID came in February (about 1 week after full acceptance) from "[email protected]" - the email body calls it a "Student ID number," so searching for PID did not bring up the email.

The PAN came in a separate email from "[email protected]"
 
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I know some med schools give their incoming students either an iPad or laptop. Can any current students speak on whether or not MSU CHM provides us with anything? I need to update my tech before school starts and just wondering whether to purchase or hold off
 
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lululemonminus said:
I know some med schools give their incoming students either an iPad or laptop. Can any current students speak on whether or not MSU CHM provides us with anything? I need to update my tech before school starts and just wondering whether to purchase or hold off
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I would also like to know
 
What are your guys' thoughts on living in downtown GR as opposed to 10-15 minutes away? Rent is $300 less, more scenic and spacious. But living far away makes it harder to socialize I imagine, and it's a longer commute. I'm planning on living solo but feel free to convince me otherwise.

Curious on everyones' thoughts and they are much appreciated!
 
futurodr11 said:
Any ms2,ms3, ms4 know how the system is regarding placement for LCE? If I am not in any of the certificate program does that mean that I will be in GR for all 4 years?
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I was in a certificate program so I personally did not go through the LCE placement process, but if I remember correctly it is like the match process where you rank your top choices for LCE and CHM attempts to match you to your top choice. Obviously, people in certificate programs will already know where they are going, but it is possible to rank any campus except for Traverse City and Marquette (because these, at least in my year, were filled 100% with people in the rural program). LMU people are automatically in Flint, and some rural people are automatically in Midland, but both of these campuses usually have openings for non-certificate people if that is where you want to go. The rest of the campuses are not affiliated with certificate programs and are open to all non-certificate students. If more students rank a campus than spaces available, then there is a lottery among people who ranked it #1 and then there is the potential to fall to your #2, #3, etc.

In my year, there was no lottery and everyone was placed at their #1 campus. Also in my year, we did not have Henry Ford available as an LCE campus, so I would imagine that since spots opened up there, it would make it even more likely that everyone gets their #1. If you decide that you want to stay in GR for LCE, I would say there is a >95% chance that you will be able to do so.
 
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lululemonminus said:
I know some med schools give their incoming students either an iPad or laptop. Can any current students speak on whether or not MSU CHM provides us with anything? I need to update my tech before school starts and just wondering whether to purchase or hold off
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Lol, no, CHM does not do this. The way financial aid works at CHM is that you get one chunk of money at the beginning of each semester that you use to cover all expenses for the next 4 months. In some of these disbursements, there is extra money for books / instruments / board exam fees, but it is your job to budget this money out and use it for these expenses if that is what you want to do with it. A breakdown of CHM's approved living expenses can be found here: https://finaid.msu.edu/read/2022-2023 CHM Budget.pdf?t=1680170931

Also note that this breakdown is the same regardless of whether you live in a higher cost of living area such as GR/Detroit or in a lower one like EL or rural. It's up to you to budget and make that disbursement last the full semester if you will be on full financial aid. I will say that I was on full financial aid and took out the maximum approved amount and never felt like it wasn't enough to live off of, but I was single w/ no dependents so YMMV.
 
chmradbasement said:
I was in a certificate program so I personally did not go through the LCE placement process, but if I remember correctly it is like the match process where you rank your top choices for LCE and CHM attempts to match you to your top choice. Obviously, people in certificate programs will already know where they are going, but it is possible to rank any campus except for Traverse City and Marquette (because these, at least in my year, were filled 100% with people in the rural program). LMU people are automatically in Flint, and some rural people are automatically in Midland, but both of these campuses usually have openings for non-certificate people if that is where you want to go. The rest of the campuses are not affiliated with certificate programs and are open to all non-certificate students. If more students rank a campus than spaces available, then there is a lottery among people who ranked it #1 and then there is the potential to fall to your #2, #3, etc.

In my year, there was no lottery and everyone was placed at their #1 campus. Also in my year, we did not have Henry Ford available as an LCE campus, so I would imagine that since spots opened up there, it would make it even more likely that everyone gets their #1. If you decide that you want to stay in GR for LCE, I would say there is a >95% chance that you will be able to do so.
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Thank you for a very detailed response.
 
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chmradbasement said:
Lol, no, CHM does not do this. The way financial aid works at CHM is that you get one chunk of money at the beginning of each semester that you use to cover all expenses for the next 4 months. In some of these disbursements, there is extra money for books / instruments / board exam fees, but it is your job to budget this money out and use it for these expenses if that is what you want to do with it. A breakdown of CHM's approved living expenses can be found here: https://finaid.msu.edu/read/2022-2023 CHM Budget.pdf?t=1680170931

Also note that this breakdown is the same regardless of whether you live in a higher cost of living area such as GR/Detroit or in a lower one like EL or rural. It's up to you to budget and make that disbursement last the full semester if you will be on full financial aid. I will say that I was on full financial aid and took out the maximum approved amount and never felt like it wasn't enough to live off of, but I was single w/ no dependents so YMMV.
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While looking at the financial aid is that summer semester standard for all students?
 
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cytomegalovirus123 said:
While looking at the financial aid is that summer semester standard for all students?
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Yes, M1 & M3 consist of a fall, spring, and summer semester. You will be taking a full course load during that time. You might get a month off between spring and summer semesters depending on how your electives/board exams/clinic assignments work out but the only summer you get completely off is M2 after you take step 1. As far as financial aid goes, you will not get any living expenses covered for the summer of M2 so the financial aid office advises that you save money during M1 & M2 to cover living expenses during that time if you will still need to pay for rent, car payments, etc.
 
chmradbasement said:
Yes, M1 & M3 consist of a fall, spring, and summer semester. You will be taking a full course load during that time. You might get a month off between spring and summer semesters depending on how your electives/board exams/clinic assignments work out but the only summer you get completely off is M2 after you take step 1. As far as financial aid goes, you will not get any living expenses covered for the summer of M2 so the financial aid office advises that you save money during M1 & M2 to cover living expenses during that time if you will still need to pay for rent, car payments, etc.
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Thats why On the financial aid portal it only showed from august through may. So how much more would it cost on top of the 60k estimated?
 
Does anyone know the state of financial aid for MSU? A lot of other schools in Michigan are pretty generous to IS students especially low income but MSU went full loans- even WMed, a private med school in Michigan gave more scholarships and grants to me. Just weird since the state schools are usually supposed to be give decent aid to IS low income students
 
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fullblownrig said:
Does anyone know the state of financial aid for MSU? A lot of other schools in Michigan are pretty generous to IS students especially low income but MSU went full loans- even WMed, a private med school in Michigan gave more scholarships and grants to me. Just weird since the state schools are usually supposed to be give decent aid to IS low income students
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I’m in the same boat. Very few scholarships and they are pretty much very limited in they offer
 
imgettininregardless said:
you got a scholarship offer? i saw in the FA email that they’ll be uploaded later
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Oh no, I didn’t. I applied for many of them but didn’t get any which kinda sucks because I thought with my income, I would at least received something. But it is what it is
 
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Al9 said:
Oh no, I didn’t. I applied for many of them but didn’t get any which kinda sucks because I thought with my income, I would at least received something. But it is what it is
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Well there's about a dozen scholarships for about 400 students since M1-M4 are competing for them so pretty tough regardless
 
fullblownrig said:
Well there's about a dozen scholarships for about 400 students since M1-M4 are competing for them so pretty tough regardless
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Oh really? I thought those scholarships were just for us admitted students. Didn’t realize it was the entire msuchm cohort
 
I received an A around mid-march. Have not received any communication regarding financial aid or health forms needed before pre-matriculation. Is this normal? thank you in advance!

It seems like the website lists a lot of the health-related information due on 6/1/23.
 
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tryingtogetin123 said:
I received an A around mid-march. Have not received any communication regarding financial aid or health forms needed before pre-matriculation. Is this normal? thank you in advance!

It seems like the website lists a lot of the health-related information due on 6/1/23.
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financial aid was dispersed a couple weeks ago. did you get your PID number? if so you can log into the SIS portal and view it
 
I also just withdrew my A (GR, also).

Wishing you all nothing but the best!

:soexcited:♥️
 
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dreamzchaser said:
Where did you decide on? What was your thought process of not going to msu? I’m also considering withdrawing my A
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i haven’t decided yet, my head is pretty scrambled and I’m 50/50 for MCW and Wayne State. I’ve been waiting for Wayne for like 4mo and just got the A last week… while already apartment hunting for MCW 😭. it’s just hard to make such an abrupt change so close to the deadline

the main reasons why i withdrew from chm is bc as an OOS i would have to pay 90K for M1 and M3 year (purely for tuition not including living expenses) which just doesn’t make sense to me and is not something i can even afford lmao. also i talked to a number of students who have said the tests are so low stakes i think someone said u only need like a 30% to pass which sounds scary bc in such a stressful environment, will i really push myself to do my best knowing i don’t even need a 50% to pass?
 
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imgettininregardless said:
i haven’t decided yet, my head is pretty scrambled and I’m 50/50 for MCW and Wayne State. I’ve been waiting for Wayne for like 4mo and just got the A last week… while already apartment hunting for MCW 😭. it’s just hard to make such an abrupt change so close to the deadline

the main reasons why i withdrew from chm is bc as an OOS i would have to pay 90K for M1 and M3 year (purely for tuition not including living expenses) which just doesn’t make sense to me and is not something i can even afford lmao. also i talked to a number of students who have said the tests are so low stakes i think someone said u only need like a 30% to pass which sounds scary bc in such a stressful environment, will i really push myself to do my best knowing i don’t even need a 50% to pass?
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I hear you on the OOS tuition. Per their website, the average OOS student debt is like~470K. That's more than 2x the national average for public medical school debt.
 
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sisteine said:
I hear you on the OOS tuition. Per their website, the average OOS student debt is like~470K. That's more than 2x the national average for public medical school debt.
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Ugh I know, that's why I am desperately waiting on an admissions decision for a school in CA to stay here 😭
 
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imgettininregardless said:
i haven’t decided yet, my head is pretty scrambled and I’m 50/50 for MCW and Wayne State. I’ve been waiting for Wayne for like 4mo and just got the A last week… while already apartment hunting for MCW 😭. it’s just hard to make such an abrupt change so close to the deadline

the main reasons why i withdrew from chm is bc as an OOS i would have to pay 90K for M1 and M3 year (purely for tuition not including living expenses) which just doesn’t make sense to me and is not something i can even afford lmao. also i talked to a number of students who have said the tests are so low stakes i think someone said u only need like a 30% to pass which sounds scary bc in such a stressful environment, will i really push myself to do my best knowing i don’t even need a 50% to pass?
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Dang! I’m definitely withdrawing. How’d y’all withdraw? I know the deadline is tomorrow
 
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dreamzchaser said:
Dang! I’m definitely withdrawing. How’d y’all withdraw? I know the deadline is tomorrow
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I thought the deadline was May 1st? Shoot . . . and I thought I was ahead of the game by doing it today. 😂
 
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