What personality should a female surgeon possess?

[EMDO2018]

There was one female resident one of my surgery rotation, she was like 5'2 and the biggest bitch I've met. She made one of the other students cry lmao. I was like damn, this chick is a female surgeon and has a napoleon complex. Not fun to be around. She liked me for some reason though.

So are you kinda quiet, and laid back? Probably why she liked you.

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[HoboCommander]

So are you kinda quiet, and laid back? Probably why she liked you.

I've noticed this too. To get along with the more dominant personalties in surgery, you have to be the more quiet, laid back type, and act like a typical med student. I wonder if I would still get along with these female surgeons once I enter their program as a resident and my personality becomes more dominant (as I am when not taking on the med student persona).

 

[EMDO2018]

So are you kinda quiet, and laid back? Probably why she liked you.

The biggest

I've noticed this too. To get along with the more dominant personalties in surgery, you have to be the more quiet, laid back type, and act like a typical med student. I wonder if I would still get along with these female surgeons once I enter their program as a resident and my personality becomes more dominant (as I am when not taking on the med student persona).

I'm sorta quite too, introverted and seems the only type of girls I attract are the ones with dominant personality types who want to boss me around and treat me like some man child or a walking dl-do. Its annoying, they are persistent too.

 

[Nasrudin]

Don't worry about it for 2 reasons: cointerns and residents would be a poor target given the dynamics of being an intern. Secondly, specialties aren't exactly a lock on one sort of personality. All the specialties have a variety of personalities.

 

[DermViser]

The biggest

You realized you responded to your own question right?

 

[DermViser]

I'm sorta quite too, introverted and seems the only type of girls I attract are the ones with dominant personality types who want to boss me around and treat me like some man child or a walking dl-do. Its annoying, they are persistent too.

You are going to be a lonely, lonely man.

 

[Microglia]

And how about the male surgeons? I would assume it's really not all that different for them. I guess I'm not understanding why there would be a gap between the two sexes in terms of propensity for divorce. I think it's smart for a busy surgeon (whether male or female) to select a mate who is just as busy..otherwise it's probably going to be difficult for the relationship to survive. I think this gives credence to the fact that doctors marry doctors more often than not.

Just to play devil's advocate, there has been way more cheating in my med school class than in college (at least that I'm aware of), so could have worse odds with double doctor relationships. I think the medical school drive leads to a number of students always wanting to trade up for the next best thing. Ever having cheated would be an instant deal breaker for me, and that would eliminate a significant number of my classmates. Quite glad to already have someone going in..

 

[Microglia]

Answer to title: whatever personality they had before becoming a surgeon. Don't change your character for a job (unless you really want to..), I can promise that is not worth it.

 

[EMDO2018]

You are going to be a lonely, lonely man.

Why do you say that, because im not into femdom?

 

[Kahreek]

it is complicated

Why do you say that, because im not into femdom?

 

[Meh.meh]

You are going to be a lonely, lonely man.

Why do you say that, because im not into femdom?

Everyone does this occasionally, but lately it seems like people do this constantly. Maybe these things come and go in cycles.

To me, the premise of this thread is somewhat ridiculous, but it's definitely not about EMDO2018 (or anyone's opinion of him) .

 

[DermViser]

Why do you say that, because im not into femdom?

No, bc your personality shows you to be quite misanthropic, which tends to include misogyny which you have brilliantly accomplished both.

 

[EMDO2018]

No, bc your personality shows you to be quite misanthropic, which tends to include misogyny which you have brilliantly accomplished both.

I'm also a bit racist, I've had a really hard life there's no way people who have grown up atop mt. privilege could ever understand.

 

[DermViser]

I'm also a bit racist, I've had a really hard life there's no way people who have grow up atop mt. privilege could ever understand.

No, I understand. A lot of things like race and socioeconomic status interweave and color our impressions of things as we grow older. I also think having URM students in a class is important in terms of being able to conversate with people of different backgrounds - although the methods used to achieve I don't think serve URMs well.

I would never tell someone whose life has been greatly affected by their race (i.e. a father killed by white supremacists and a jury finding them not guilty) to just "suck it up". However, for you to assume that everyone of different skin color or socioeconomic status than yourself are sitting atop a mountain of privilege is a logical fallacy. I also think that your worldview is a sure freight train to misery, depression and anger, but that's just me.

 

[RJGOP]

I'm also a bit racist, I've had a really hard life there's no way people who have grown up atop mt. privilege could ever understand.

With all due respect, you also don't know how any of us, priveledged or not, grew up. In order to succeed, it would be most beneficial if you dropped the chip on your shoulder. Hard work and humility are going to help you more than anything.

 

[EMDO2018]

No, I understand. A lot of things like race and socioeconomic status interweave and color our impressions of things as we grow older. I also think having URM students in a class is important in terms of being able to conversate with people of different backgrounds - although the methods used to achieve I don't think serve URMs well.

I would never tell someone whose life has been greatly affected by their race (i.e. a father killed by white supremacists and a jury finding them not guilty) to just "suck it up". However, for you to assume that everyone of different skin color or socioeconomic status than yourself are sitting atop a mountain of privilege is a logical fallacy. I also think that your worldview is a sure freight train to misery, depression and anger, but that's just me.

I can bet you, no white patient ever walked out of their white physicians office because their doctor was white. Crap like that happens all the time with black physicians, I don't care how poor you were growing up, having white skin in America puts you in a privilege category especially in academics. If you are a white doctor people just assume you earned it, where they just assume the black doctor didn't. You can graduate at the top of your class as a black med student and still have patients question your competence, you can have a white or Asian student who graduates at the bottom of the class and people never question their competence. In this country, if you're white you're privileged, take a basic sociology class.

 

[DermViser]

I can bet you, no white patient ever walked out of their white physicians office because their doctor was white. Crap like that happens all the time with black physicians, I don't care how poor you were growing up, having white skin in America puts you in a privilege category especially in academics. If you are a white doctor people just assume you earned it, where they just assume the black doctor didn't. You can graduate at the top of your class as a black med student and still have patients question your competence, you can have a white or Asian student who graduates at the bottom of the class and people never question their competence. In this country, if you're white you're privileged, take a basic sociology class.

I don't know where you live, but you are correct, I have never seen a patient walk out of a physician's office solely bc of their skin color.

As far as people assuming you earned it if you're white or asian vs. not earning it bc you're black, you can place 100% of the blame on affirmative action advocates who have engrained it in medical school admissions policy. The AAMC even has a diversity officer for these type of things and the AAMC has released statistics that are clear to read regarding average MCAT and GPA stats for various races and the chances of that person getting in based on their race at the same MCAT and GPA. Asians are not a majority in this country and are hardly the leaders of Fortune 500 companies no matter how hard they work. For them the deck is fully stacked against them and not all Asians are rich either.

Don't blame white people or asian people for policies that certain special interest groups have advocated for.

 

[DermViser]

With all due respect, you also don't know how any of us, priveledged or not, grew up. In order to succeed, it would be most beneficial if you dropped the chip on your shoulder. Hard work and humility are going to help you more than anything.

A chip? It's more like a boulder at this point.

 

[RJGOP]

I can bet you, no white patient ever walked out of their white physicians office because their doctor was white. Crap like that happens all the time with black physicians, I don't care how poor you were growing up, having white skin in America puts you in a privilege category especially in academics. If you are a white doctor people just assume you earned it, where they just assume the black doctor didn't. You can graduate at the top of your class as a black med student and still have patients question your competence, you can have a white or Asian student who graduates at the bottom of the class and people never question their competence. In this country, if you're white you're privileged, take a basic sociology class.

Yes. Just like how people question the competence of white athletes in basketball.

 

[Meh.meh]

 

[RJGOP]

Hey, that's what happens to threads around here.

 

[NontradCA]

Don't worry about it for 2 reasons: cointerns and residents would be a poor target given the dynamics of being an intern. Secondly, specialties aren't exactly a lock on one sort of personality. All the specialties have a variety of personalities.

Surely (yes I called you Sherly) some specialties inherently attract certain personalities. I can't count on both hands how many FM docs have told me they chose the specialty because of their rotation experience, and the personality traits of those in the field. I've only met one FM doc who wasn't easy going, but hey, what do I know. Probably nothing.

I haven't met many easy going surgeons. You can even see the attitude of those who post on here.

 

[EMDO2018]

Yes. Just like how people question the competence of white athletes in basketball.

WTf basketball is a sport, nobody gives a damn about sports they don't mean anything. Questioning the competence of a white basketball player doesn't help or hinder white people in America all. Constantly questioning the intellectual competence of African Americans because of skin color is very detrimental.

 

[RJGOP]

WTf basketball is a sport, nobody gives a damn about sports they don't mean anything. Questioning the competence of a white basketball player doesn't help or hinder white people in America all. Constantly questioning the intellectual competence of African Americans because of skin color is very detrimental.

The point is, those who actually doubt the intelligence of blacks shouldn't matter to you. Those aren't the majority of people, in fact it is just a tiny fraction of people who are biased and haven't moved on since the Civil Rights Act. Most people won't second guess you or your competence. My advice would be to stop whining, stop playing the race card all the time, and remain confident in your abilities while staying humble and open.

 

[EMDO2018]

The point is, those who actually doubt the intelligence of blacks shouldn't matter to you. Those aren't the majority of people, in fact it is just a tiny fraction of people who are biased and haven't moved on since the Civil Rights Act. Most people won't second guess you or your competence. My advice would be to stop whining, stop playing the race card all the time, and remain confident in your abilities while staying humble and open.

That statement couldn't be more wrong.

 

[DermViser]

Surely (yes I called you Sherly) some specialties inherently attract certain personalities. I can't count on both hands how many FM docs have told me they chose the specialty because of their rotation experience, and the personality traits of those in the field. I've only met one FM doc who wasn't easy going, but hey, what do I know. Probably nothing.

I haven't met many easy going surgeons. You can even see the attitude of those who post on here.

I would say @Winged Scapula and @southernIM are relatively easy going. Surgeons will never be as easy going as Family Med docs but their functions and inherent stresses are completely different.

There are some ones like DarknightX and this one Surgeon guy who has some scary voodoo guy with makeup on in his avatar, but Darknight is just one of those with a very wry sense of humor. Have to have it for such a desolate experience I think.

 

[RJGOP]

That statement couldn't be more wrong.

Dude. If you want to feel sorry for yourself, then go ahead. I'm just warning you, that crap is gonna catch up to you. If you want to succeed you have to get rid of that enormous chip on your shoulder. If your so worried about whites judging you, move to California or Massachusetts or some other liberal state which will sympathize completely with you.

 

[DermViser]

That statement couldn't be more wrong.

You realize Barack Obama would not have been voted in without the help of white people right? Or is he not black enough? Or did u think it was bc of white guilt?

 

[RJGOP]

You realize Barack Obama would not have been voted in without the help of white people right? Or is he not black enough? Or did u think it was bc of white guilt?

Yeah, I forgot to mention that the KKK does not dominate America.

 

[DermViser]

Dude. If you want to feel sorry for yourself, then go ahead. I'm just warning you, that crap is gonna catch up to you. If you want to succeed you have to get rid of that enormous chip on your shoulder. If your so worried about whites judging you, move to California or Massachusetts or some other liberal state which will play perfectly into your personality.

I was just going to say, it's pretty much acid that eats up at the entire container that holds it.

Oh and apparently you haven't seen racism in Boston - ask the black (I believe law, but not sure) students at Harvard.

 

[RJGOP]

I was just going to say, it's pretty much acid that eats up at the entire container that holds it.

Oh and apparently you haven't seen racism in Boston - ask the black (I believe law, but not sure) students at Harvard.

You mean this?
http://www3.law.harvard.edu/orgs/blsa/about/

 

[DermViser]

You mean this:
http://www3.law.harvard.edu/orgs/blsa/about/

I mean they were kicked out out of a bar in Boston and not for raucous behavior.

 

[DermViser]

WTf basketball is a sport, nobody gives a damn about sports they don't mean anything. Questioning the competence of a white basketball player doesn't help or hinder white people in America all. Constantly questioning the intellectual competence of African Americans because of skin color is very detrimental.

It's not your skin color. It's affirmative action policies that cause the questioning. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[NontradCA]

I would say @Winged Scapula and @southernIM are relatively easy going. Surgeons will never be as easy going as Family Med docs but their functions and inherent stresses are completely different.

There are some ones like DarknightX and this one Surgeon guy who has some scary voodoo guy with makeup on in his avatar, but Darknight is just one of those with a very wry sense of humor. Have to have it for such a desolate experience I think.

Some are relatively easy going, but I think the humor is often at the expense of others, particularly med students. I appreciate both their contributions and I like WS a lot. I was more or less speaking as a whole on these forums. When surgeons are lecturing at my school, most of the students say something alluding to their dickish personality.

 

[Nasrudin]

Let's not do this again. Personality structure by field is much more interesting. I'd actually like to see data on this. What parts of the personality are mobile and mutable and able to be changed by a course of training like surgery vs what are inherent to the sorts of people attracted to it on average.

I'd agree that there are different proportions of certain types of people in different fields but just am not comfortable talking about "...female surgeons are like this..." and that sort of thing. It doesn't seem realistic. Myself, I've met a variety of people who were surgeons. All had to conform to the job to some extent but most were unique individuals--some funny, laid back some intense and serious, some angry, some happy-go-lucky, some friendly, some not, etc.

 

[NontradCA]

Let's not do this again. Personality structure by field is much more interesting. I'd actually like to see data on this. What parts of the personality are mobile and mutable and able to be changed by a course of training like surgery vs what are inherent to the sorts of people attracted to it on average.

I'd agree that there are different proportions of certain types of people in different fields but just am not comfortable talking about "...female surgeons are like this..." and that sort of thing. It doesn't seem realistic. Myself, I've met a variety of people who were surgeons. All had to conform to the job to some extent but most were unique individuals--some funny, laid back some intense and serious, some angry, some happy-go-lucky, some friendly, some not, etc.

Whatever you want to call it, the perception is there and is noticed by all those in medicine. I'm not saying surgeons are bad people, but more of what you alluded to, in that their culture does not facilitate a pleasant experience among those they meet.

 

[DermViser]

Some are relatively easy going, but I think the humor is often at the expense of others, particularly med students. I appreciate both their contributions and I like WS a lot. I was more or less speaking as a whole on these forums. When surgeons are lecturing at my school, most of the students say something alluding to their dickish personality.

Yeah, I really do think the specialty dictates a lot of what the personality is like. I don't think those who gravitate towards surgery start out dickish. I also have to wonder how many of those people who were dicks initially when med school started, gravitated toward surgery based on the perception that they are allowed to act that way with no repercussions (which definitely used to be the case).

I think if you were to confront them on it, I don't think the surgeon would even think their personality is dickish. They think it's normal. A high percentage of physicians who have to go through disruptive physician training (seeing the designated psychiatrist that evaluates disruptive physicians for a living, etc.) happen to be surgeons.

 

[NontradCA]

Yeah, I really do think the specialty dictates a lot of what the personality is like. I don't think those who gravitate towards surgery start out dickish. I also have to wonder how many of those people who were dicks initially when med school started, gravitated toward surgery based on the perception that they are allowed to act that way with no repercussions (which definitely used to be the case).

I think if you were to confront them on it, I don't think the surgeon would even think their personality is dickish. They think it's normal. A high percentage of physicians who have to go through disruptive physician training (seeing the designated psychiatrist that evaluates disruptive physicians for a living, etc.) happen to be surgeons.

I don't know about wanting the no repercussions part, but the people going in obviously like the culture as they are spending most of their time with other surgeons during training and have to put up with them for so long. The same can be said for any field. From a layman's perspective, it seems that the field is meticulous in getting the best possible outcomes for patients, while demanding their kind adhere to the highest standards. It reminds me of military culture. It's easy to see why people think surgeons are dicks. You don't see surgeons complaining though, haha.

 

[DermViser]

I don't know about wanting the no repercussions part, but the people going in obviously like the culture as they are spending most of their time with other surgeons during training and have to put up with them for so long. The same can be said for any field. From a layman's perspective, it seems that the field is meticulous in getting the best possible outcomes for patients, while demanding their kind adhere to the highest standards. It reminds me of military culture. It's easy to see why people think surgeons are dicks.

Except the perception is that surgeons are allowed to yell at anyone and everyone. You don't see Radiation Oncology or Ophthalmalogy doing it and it would be weird if they did, but fully expected if a Surgeon did it. For the longest time, Surgery was allowed to act like a petulant child while everyone else acknowledged it and ignored it. Many nurses (and I'm not siding with them) will point out egregious things being done by Surgeons and when they complained to hospital administrators they would make excuses that the person is their best surgeon and brought in the most money for the hospital and the surgeons deep down knew it. So nurses would just get up and leave. You can't just throw scalpels across the room, I don't care how good of a surgeon you are as we are all replaceable.

It wasn't until research started correlating disruptive behavior with bad patient outcomes that eventually hospitals stood up and said they just can't allow it anymore which is why the hardest to change have been the much older surgeons who grew in a time of total autonomy, no work hour restrictions at all, etc. A lot of surgical residency training is analogous to the military. They were one of the most vehmenent in being against work hour restrictions and who came up with the expression that being on call q2 meant you miss half of the good cases (I personally didn't find this expression at all humorous and actually quite annoying).

 

[touchpause13]

The point is, those who actually doubt the intelligence of blacks shouldn't matter to you. Those aren't the majority of people, in fact it is just a tiny fraction of people who are biased and haven't moved on since the Civil Rights Act. Most people won't second guess you or your competence. My advice would be to stop whining, stop playing the race card all the time, and remain confident in your abilities while staying humble and open.

Listen I agree that emdo has a boulder in his shoulder and treats people like crap because of it. But your statement is sooo incorrect.

As a culture black people still get treated like trash. To deny that is to not have any awareness of your surroundings. We still are living with the residual effects of slavery and Jim crow, and while explicit racism has decreased, implicit bias is still very much there. As a whole black folks are viewed as less intelligent and more threatening(particularly black men), leading to a whole host of difficulties that blacks have to deal with that white people never have to think about. That's what white privilege is, we don't have to think about race if we don't want to. That the experiences of black folks in this country and white folks are fundamentally different because of racism. It's not just some backwards people who yell the n word at people in the street, it's being treated as less than by the judicial system, in academia, shoot even going shopping.

We as a country have not moved on from racism, far from it, and saying stuff like that only shows that you are a part of the problem

 

[Kahreek]

too soon, i actually know a person who knew a person that died in that accident.

 

[DermViser]

Listen I agree that emdo has a boulder in his shoulder and treats people like crap because of it. But your statement is sooo incorrect.

As a culture black people still get treated like trash. To deny that is to not have any awareness of your surroundings. We still are living with the residual effects of slavery and Jim crow, and while explicit racism has decreased, implicit bias is still very much there. As a whole black folks are viewed as less intelligent and more threatening(particularly black men), leading to a whole host of difficulties that blacks have to deal with that white people never have to think about. That's what white privilege is, we don't have to think about race if we don't want to. That the experiences of black folks in this country and white folks are fundamentally different because of racism. It's not just some backwards people who yell the n word at people in the street, it's being treated as less than by the judicial system, in academia, shoot even going shopping.

We as a country have not moved on from racism, far from it, and saying stuff like that only shows that you are a part of the problem

And affirmative action doesn't help. It enflames things even more. I know URMs in my class who had to deal with the stigma of it even though they did not need the leg up from it. They're treated as stupid and of low expectations by the faculty, who are shocked that they are smart, due to a policy that essentially helps the dumber URM (for lack of a better label).

And I'm sorry but getting a mandatory drug sentence for doing drugs does not mean it's racism. It means you're a criminal.

 

[touchpause13]

And affirmative action doesn't help. It enflames things even more. I know URMs in my class who had to deal with the stigma of it even though they did not need the leg up from it. They're treated as stupid and of low expectations by the faculty, who are shocked that they are smart, due to a policy that essentially helps the dumber URM (for lack of a better label).

And I'm sorry but getting a mandatory drug sentence for doing drugs does not mean it's racism. It means you're a criminal.

I didn't say anything about affirmative action.

The issue with drug laws is that white folks use at the same rates as blacks, but blacks get longer sentences and are prosecuted at higher rates.

 

[touchpause13]

I'm not a big fan of jailing addicts to begin with but that's a whole different argument

 

[DermViser]

I didn't say anything about affirmative action.

The issue with drug laws is that white folks use at the same rates as blacks, but blacks get longer sentences and are prosecuted at higher rates.

I didn't say you did. I said it highly contributes to it. You can't scream about how races should be equal and then be ok with a known policy that takes race into consideration. Esp. one that says that it's ok to do so for particular races but not for others based on different MCAT/GPA criteria. Then you can't be shocked when those who were admitted based on those MCAT/GPA criteria start doing poorly in the first 2 years and have great trouble. Saddling them with nondischargeable debt is not my idea of helping, not matter if your liberal guilt may feel that way.

 

[DermViser]

I'm not a big fan of jailing addicts to begin with but that's a whole different argument

I very much am. Make the decision to do illicit drugs? You go straight to jail, period. You don't deserve to be around others, esp. young children whom you can influence. It's like the same fools who believe the solution to IV drug abusers is a clean needle exchange. No, the solution is to get them off of drugs.

 

[Kahreek]

And affirmative action doesn't help. It enflames things even more. I know URMs in my class who had to deal with the stigma of it even though they did not need the leg up from it. They're treated as stupid and of low expectations by the faculty, who are shocked that they are smart, due to a policy that essentially helps the dumber URM (for lack of a better label).

And I'm sorry but getting a mandatory drug sentence for doing drugs does not mean it's racism. It means you're a criminal.

yes but imagine you are brought up in the hood, all the shizzle you have to do to get the bread at the door, means you sling some dope in the saturday, you get you little check up and bamn, you are grounded, while the rich boy with all the paper and pen crimes done for him by his parents and shizzle, is in the clear

 

[touchpause13]

I didn't say you did. I said it highly contributes to it. You can't scream about how races should be equal and then be ok with a known policy that takes race into consideration. Esp. one that says that it's ok to do so for particular races but not for others based on different MCAT/GPA criteria. Then you can't be shocked when those who were admitted based on those MCAT/GPA criteria start doing poorly in the first 2 years and have great trouble. Saddling them with nondischargeable debt is not my idea of helping, not matter if your liberal guilt may feel that way.

Lol.
I think race is a factor and don't have a problem with it being taken into consideration about a person. And no one who is accepted into a medical school in the US is incapable of doing the work. Ask any adcom on here, the picture you are painting isn't accurate. @LizzyM @Goro

 

[touchpause13]

I very much am. Make the decision to do illicit drugs? You go straight to jail, period. You don't deserve to be around others, esp. young children whom you can influence. It's like the same fools who believe the solution to IV drug abusers is a clean needle exchange. No, the solution is to get them off of drugs.

I disagree with everything about this lol.

 

[DermViser]

yes but imagine you are brought up in the hood, all the shizzle you have to do to get the bread at the door, means you sling some dope in the saturday, you get you little check up and bamn, you are grounded, while the rich boy with all the paper and pen crimes done for him by his parents and shizzle, is in the clear

You mean a black person and a white person are found to do the same amount of cocaine and the black guy gets a higher sentence than the white guy?