What personality should a female surgeon possess?

[NontradCA]

I don't know, I guess I feel this is a much grayer area than stealing. Addiction is recognized as something that can and should be addressed by health professionals, and why should it not? So is kleptomania. I sort of lump it in with abortion laws at the moment. Not every Ob/Gyn should HAVE to perform them, but we shouldn't demonize those that are willing to (at least not at an institutional level, you have every right to your own feelings and actions).

It's ok as long as it's approved by the DEA. Teeheehee.

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[DermViser]

Theres nothing inherently difficult about making it into medical school. Some work harder than others, but my company isn't composed of geniuses. If it were, Id have a harder time getting that top %. Medical school seems to be one of those rare situations where you get what you put into it. Becoming a doctor is one of the last few american dreams.

It's not that people are incapable of becoming doctors. Most don't want to be. ****, I'm here by default. I wanted to be an astronaut, or an actor. I'm just smart enough to know this is my best option.

No one talked about being a genius.

 

[NontradCA]

Here let me prescribe you this drug that may or may not kill you. **** you pay me.

 

[Southplains]

Not being "condescending" at all. But if you are equating those 2 situations: shooting heroin with eating fast food, drinking a liter of soda everyday, and drinking a 1 beer every evening, as being on the same level of magnitude or on the same plane then you are greatly mistaken.

<-- That is the condescension emoticon and no one would disagree. Look we obviously feel different but it's my opinion you're just hung up on the more negative connotation of drug abuse compared to eating/drinking yourself to an early grave.

 

[NontradCA]

WTB: selling heroine equivalent to prescribing oxy.

 

[JP2740]

<-- That is the condescension emoticon and no one would disagree. Look we obviously feel different but it's my opinion you're just hung up on the more negative connotation of drug abuse compared to eating/drinking yourself to an early grave.

Are you ****ing serious dude? You don't see the difference? It really pisses me off that you're going to be a doctor.

 

[Southplains]

Are you ******* serious dude? You don't see the difference? It really pisses me off that you're going to be a doctor.

Yeah bro, I'm serious. What exactly makes you so upset about that?

 

[NontradCA]

Are you ******* serious dude? You don't see the difference? It really pisses me off that you're going to be a doctor.

It pisses me off that he pisses you off. You're going to make a horrible doctor.

 

[Southplains]

Look guys, again I'm not saying both behaviors have similar effects on those around them, or that severely obese patients have an equally negative impact on society that drug addicts do. I don't think that. But from the standpoint of addressing the health of these two groups of people, I see that they're both indulging in a consumptive behavior that has serious and well defined negative consequences on their health, and I'm okay with interventions that both try to change that issue, as well as improve their health while trying to change.

 

[NontradCA]

Look guys, again I'm not saying both behaviors have similar effects on those around them, or that severely obese patients have an equally negative impact on society that drug addicts do. I don't think that. But from the standpoint of addressing the health of these two groups of people, I see that they're both indulging in a consumptive behavior that has serious and well defined negative consequences on their health, and I'm okay with interventions that both try to change that issue, as well as improve their health while trying to change.

Yea and with that attitude you just killed 8 patients.

 

[DermViser]

Look guys, again I'm not saying both behaviors have similar effects on those around them, or that severely obese patients have an equally negative impact on society that drug addicts do. I don't think that. But from the standpoint of addressing the health of these two groups of people, I see that they're both indulging in a consumptive behavior that has serious and well defined negative consequences on their health, and I'm okay with interventions that both try to change that issue, as well as improve their health while trying to change.

Forget about effects on people around them. No one is talking about that We are talking about the 1 person who is doing it only - the deleterious physiologic consequences, the level of functional impairment, etc. Those 2 examples are NOWHERE CLOSE to being on the same plane in terms of the above or with respect to interventions.

How you are unable to differentiate this very basic concept is beyond me.

 

[DermViser]

Are you ******* serious dude? You don't see the difference? It really pisses me off that you're going to be a doctor.

I think I agree with @NontradCA. You truly don't have to be smart to get into medical school.

 

[NontradCA]

Forget about effects on people around them. No one is talking about that We are talking about the 1 person who is doing it only - the deleterious physiologic consequences, the level of functional impairment, etc. Those 2 examples are NOWHERE CLOSE to being on the same plane in terms of the above or with respect to interventions.

How you are unable to differentiate this very basic concept is beyond me.

I know right. This dude is such an dingus. My Mom will go in with hyperlipidemia and he will write her off as a crackhead. He will probably Rx her 325 mg of aspirin Q 15 mins x 4 days. Thanks for killing my mom. Sheesh. They will let anyone in med school nowadays.

 

[Southplains]

Forget about effects on people around them. No one is talking about that We are talking about the 1 person who is doing it only - the deleterious physiologic consequences, the level of functional impairment, etc. Those 2 examples are NOWHERE CLOSE to being on the same plane in terms of the above or with respect to interventions.

How you are unable to differentiate this very basic concept is beyond me.

Funny, I'd say the same to you. I'm asking you to explain it. More than just scoff and say they're not the same. Are you saying shooting up has more acute deleterious effects than overeating? I really don't know where you're coming from if it's not drug abuse/trade's effect on society.

 

[DermViser]

Look guys, again I'm not saying both behaviors have similar effects on those around them, or that severely obese patients have an equally negative impact on society that drug addicts do. I don't think that. But from the standpoint of addressing the health of these two groups of people, I see that they're both indulging in a consumptive behavior that has serious and well defined negative consequences on their health, and I'm okay with interventions that both try to change that issue, as well as improve their health while trying to change.

You're right. "Please don't shoot up drugs, but if you do could u use a clean needle first on taxpayer dime?" - wonderful intervention.

 

[Southplains]

I think I agree with @NontradCA. You truly don't have to be smart to get into medical school.

I'm really surprised that my defending of needle exchange programs has upset you to the point of questioning my intelligence.

 

[DermViser]

I know right. This dude is such an dingus. My Mom will go in with hyperlipidemia and he will write her off as a crackhead. He will probably Rx her 325 mg of aspirin Q 15 mins x 4 days. Thanks for killing my mom. Sheesh. They will let anyone in med school nowadays.

I'm shocked he's seriously saying that someone who freakin' uses heroin is exactly on par with someone who takes metformin for diabetes. Yup, no difference. No difference at all.

 

[RJGOP]

I think I agree with @NontradCA. You truly don't have to be smart to get into medical school.

Honestly, I don't think he is stupid. He just has some very strange opinions on the compatibility between drugs and crappy eating and etc. It's just his opinion. I don't agree with them, but they don't make him stupid.

 

[Southplains]

You're right. "Please don't shoot up drugs, but if you do could u use a clean needle first on taxpayer dime?" - wonderful intervention.

Never said it should come from tax money.

 

[DermViser]

Never said it should come from tax money.

Who do you think actually pays for these programs and funds them?

 

[Southplains]

Honestly, I don't think he is stupid. He just has some very strange opinions on the compatibility between drugs and crappy eating and etc. It's just his opinion. I don't agree with them, but they don't make him stupid.

Thanks. I really wish some others would weigh in here, maybe those who have had experience treating/working with addicts. I'm not an idiot and I'm not trying to compare the guy living on the streets trading every moment/resource to score the next hit to a guy with a BMI that's a little too high. But there are so many people who are "functioning addicts". Who are able to have their lives going yet still continue to abuse substances, this happens in medical professionals as well. I just tried to say that a needle exchange program isn't morally corrupt and I don't think the effort is promoting drug abuse any more than medications that will allow you to not change your diet but reduce complications of that behavior.

 

[Southplains]

Who do you think actually pays for these programs and funds them?

A lot of the times it is federal funding sure and it's gone back and forth in the US. Right now I think it's just state and private donations funding the programs here.

 

[DermViser]

A lot of the times it is federal funding sure and it's gone back and forth in the US. Right now I think it's just state and private donations funding the programs here.

Newsflash -- state funding means through state taxes, which are also funded by taxpayers.

 

[DermViser]

Thanks. I really wish some others would weigh in here, maybe those who have had experience treating/working with addicts. I'm not an idiot and I'm not trying to compare the guy living on the streets trading every moment/resource to score the next hit to a guy with a BMI that's a little too high. But there are so many people who are "functioning addicts". Who are able to have their lives going yet still continue to abuse substances, this happens in medical professionals as well. I just tried to say that a needle exchange program isn't morally corrupt and I don't think the effort is promoting drug abuse any more than medications that will allow you to not change your diet but reduce complications of that behavior.

No one said that a needle exchange program is "morally corrupt".

 

[Southplains]

Newsflash -- state funding means through state taxes, which are also funded by taxpayers.

Oh my god really? I had no idea that's how states acquired funding. You're trying really hard to come up with responses that are something other than explaining why the two instances are different from a treatment standpoint. I didn't say taxpayers should bear the burden of these programs, nor did I say that they never have done so.

 

[RJGOP]

Thanks. I really wish some others would weigh in here, maybe those who have had experience treating/working with addicts. I'm not an idiot and I'm not trying to compare the guy living on the streets trading every moment/resource to score the next hit to a guy with a BMI that's a little too high. But there are so many people who are "functioning addicts". Who are able to have their lives going yet still continue to abuse substances, this happens in medical professionals as well. I just tried to say that a needle exchange program isn't morally corrupt and I don't think the effort is promoting drug abuse any more than medications that will allow you to not change your diet but reduce complications of that behavior.

This is where we disagree.

 

[D4C]

I feel like I'm watching C-SPAN in this thread. My word.

 

[Southplains]

No one said that a needle exchange program is "morally corrupt".

You're right I'm left completely assuming what your issues with these programs are because you'll only say I'm an idiot for disagreeing.

 

[DermViser]

You're right I'm left completely assuming what your issues with these programs are because you'll only say I'm an idiot for disagreeing.

I don't believe the people who believe in these programs are "morally corrupt". Nonsensical yes, not understanding of incentives yes, not actually working toward solving the problem yes, but not "morally corrupt".

 

[Southplains]

Newsflash -- state funding means through state taxes, which are also funded by taxpayers.

Also who do you think is paying for the treatment these addicts after they catch something from a dirty needle? People are starting to look at economic impact now that countries are experimenting with things like federally funded needle exchange programs and decriminalization. If the idea really doesn't work at all to reduce infection rates or costs then I'll be the first to admit it should be changed.

 

[RJGOP]

Also who do you think is paying for the treatment these addicts after they catch something from a dirty needle? People are starting to look at economic impact now that countries are experimenting with things like federally funded needle exchange programs and decriminalization. If the idea really doesn't work at all to reduce infection rates or costs then I'll be the first to admit it should be changed.

That's their fault. If they want to screw with drugs and needles they are risking that potential repercussion. I feel the same way about people with tats.

 

[Southplains]

I don't believe the people who believe in these programs are "morally corrupt". Nonsensical yes, not understanding of incentives yes, not actually working toward solving the problem yes, but not "morally corrupt".

We just feel differently about this and I'm really not trying to just pick a fight. Nothing wrong with a little back and forth but you personally attacking me makes it hard to take you seriously.

 

[Southplains]

That's their fault. If they want to screw with drugs and needles they are risking that potential repercussion. I feel the same way about people with tats.

What do you think about people who smoke cigarettes? Should medicaid not pay for their treatments either? What about people that eat so poorly and don't exercise that they have DM and hypertension and now need to be on all these meds or have x, y, then z surgery over the years because they haven't changed.

 

[RJGOP]

What do you think about people who smoke cigarettes? Should medicaid not pay for their treatments either? What about people that eat so poorly and don't exercise that they have DM and hypertension and now need to be on all these meds or have x, y, then z surgery over the years because they haven't changed.

Again it's illegal vs. legal, although stupid. If people want to piss away their lives legally, let them. If they want to do it illegally, that's a different story.

 

[Southplains]

Again it's illegal vs. legal, although stupid. If people want to piss away their lives legally, let them. If they want to do it illegally, that's a different story.

I appreciate you explaining where the line is drawn for you, and I respect you feeling that way.

 

[touchpause13]

What if drugs were made legal, would you guys have the same opinion?

 

[DermViser]

What if drugs were made legal, would you guys have the same opinion?

They're illegal for a darn good reason. Heroin should not be legalized.

 

[touchpause13]

They're illegal for a darn good reason. Heroin should not be legalized.

Nice dodge.

 

[DermViser]

Nice dodge.

Maybe for you. It's not a dodge at all when these drugs cause very real functional impairment and death. You don't need to look any further than Phillip Seymour Hoffman to see how much damage illicit drugs can cause. If anyone is bringing in a non sequitur it's you.

 

[touchpause13]

Maybe for you. It's not a dodge at all when these drugs cause very real functional impairment and death. You don't need to look any further than Phillip Seymour Hoffman to see how much damage illicit drugs can cause. If anyone is bringing in a non sequitur it's you.

How is that a non sequitur? What I was getting from RJGOP was that his major issue with the needle program is that drugs are illegal. I was wondering if any of yall would have a change in opinion in drugs were legal. It's a simple question that you failed to answer

 

[PL198]

No one said that a needle exchange program is "morally corrupt".

except it is, because you're reinforcing someone to have a poor behavior, along with directly breaking the law yourself. I'm aware of the definition of morality, before somebody is like " ZOMG webster's defines morality as what you think is immoral."

 

[PL198]

How is that a non sequitur? What I was getting from RJGOP was that his major issue with the needle program is that drugs are illegal. I was wondering if any of yall would have a change in opinion in drugs were legal. It's a simple question that you failed to answer

If they're legal, then would you also support a drinking straw exchange for McDonald's drinks so people wouldn't spread bacteria on them? I don't openly promote activities that harm people's health in extreme ways, regardless of if they are legal or not.

 

[touchpause13]

If they're legal, then would you also support a drinking straw exchange for McDonald's drinks so people wouldn't spread bacteria on them? I don't openly promote activities that harm people's health in extreme ways, regardless of if they are legal or not.

I mean is sharing straws and getting sick a huge problem?

 

[PL198]

I mean is sharing straws and getting sick a huge problem?

let's assume it is for the sake of this discussion it is because I agree it's probably currently not, but I was more trying to see if your point is consistent.

 

[DermViser]

How is that a non sequitur? What I was getting from RJGOP was that his major issue with the needle program is that drugs are illegal. I was wondering if any of yall would have a change in opinion in drugs were legal. It's a simple question that you failed to answer

You're right, drugs being "legal" vs. "illegal" is a completely arbitrary system. I'll wait when someone is shooting up Mucinex intravenously to take you seriously.
Our drug problem would be so much better if heroin was legal.

 

[touchpause13]

let's assume it is for the sake of this discussion it is because I agree it's probably currently not, but I was more trying to see if your point is consistent.

Assuming it was: yes I'm cool with it.

I just think that we should meet patients where they are at. Telling a drug addicted patient to stop is not helpful. That is doing nothing for that patient. Getting them clean needles is helped them to prevent disease as well as sowing some trust in the healthcare system. Maybe if I can show that person that I'm not going to judge or brow beat them, when they are ready they will come to me for help and get into a treatment program. If they don't, oh well but at least they don't have HIV on top of their addiction.

 

[DermViser]

I mean is sharing straws and getting sick a huge problem?

Do you know what clean needles actually prevents?

 

[DermViser]

Assuming it was: yes I'm cool with it.

I just think that we should meet patients where they are at. Telling a drug addicted patient to stop is not helpful. That is doing nothing for that patient. Getting them clean needles is helped them to prevent disease as well as sowing some trust in the healthcare system. Maybe if I can show that person that I'm not going to judge or brow beat them, when they are ready they will come to me for help and get into a treatment program. If they don't, oh well but at least they don't have HIV on top of their addiction.

"Telling them to stop" is not an intervention. Stop characterizing it as such.

 

[touchpause13]

Do you know what clean needles actually prevents?

I assumed it was HIV and hepatitis. Feel free to correct me if I'm mistaken

 

[DermViser]

except it is, because you're reinforcing someone to have a poor behavior, along with directly breaking the law yourself. I'm aware of the definition of morality, before somebody is like " ZOMG webster's defines morality as what you think is immoral."

I don't think they think they are reinforcing poor behavior. They're misinformed and clueless maybe, but not morally corrupt.