Where did you get the conclusion that the Canadian medical school system sucks? While its not perfect, blindly saying it sucks is ridiculous especially without any proof. What are you objecting to, i'm guessing you are objecting to the provincial quota system. In that case you have a point, but if you are just saying the education sucks you have no idea what you are talking about. Canada has some of the most difficult medical schools to get into, the equivalent would be if the US only had top and mid tier MD schools with no backup.
Me stating that the Canadian medical school system sucks is a veiled compliment. I stated that it sucks because, let's face it, it does. Qualified applicants are being turned away, attending medical school abroad, and then matching into top tier US residencies or re-entering Canada for their residencies. These applicants are hardly unqualified to attend medical school in their own country. Even if there aren't enough residency spots for Canadians, thereby justifying fewer medical school admittances, it still sucks because their students are taking US residencies away from US students. I suppose you could counter that with the benefit that Canadians would bring to US practices if they stay in the country, but we both know that Canadians consider the US as a fallback, and you'd have a hard time refuting that argument based on match data posted, above, and the fact that only 6 Canadian medical school grads matched US residencies in 2013.
Aforementioned "sucks" isn't referring to the quality of medical education in Canada, or the quality of its healthcare. Again, it sucks because its students are being turned away in droves, and they don't have fallbacks similar to what US students have (osteopathic schools) where most students who want to pursue medicine
can, even with sub-stellar academic qualifications. Will these DO's become specialists and surgeons? Maybe not, but they perform a good function in filling primary care specialties in needed areas.
Where did you get the idea that people with below 3.4 and 26 MCAT are not admitted? Even though I think its true that they don't admit people with such low stats I also don't know where you got that from in your post.
Claiming that those with less than 3.4 and 26 not being admitted to Irish medical schools is an estimate; feel free to read the stats of ABP acceptances thread stickied in this forum to verify it for yourself. I'm not in the mood to create a spreadsheet itemizing every response in that 40+ page thread.
Your conclusions seem to be so off from the stats you cited. Canadians will often apply to both Canada and the US in the same year, if they don't match to Canada they sometimes match to the US. However, if they match to Canada they are automatically withdrawn from the US match.
I based my estimates off of the totals entering a North American match vs totals entering the CaRMS. My numbers are accurate assuming that no US students entered the CaRMS match, which historically, they don't. For instance, if 21 students total enter the North American match at Trinity College Dublin and 15 apply to CaRMS, I'm assuming that 15 students are Canadian and that 6 are US citizens. I don't know about Canadians applying to both CaRMS and NRMP residencies, my focus is on US students matching US residencies, here.
Most of the matches to Canada were actually good compared to the US actually. Canada does not have any community programs, only university programs so already most of the Canadian matches are better than most American matches. Matching to Canada is a lot harder than it is to the US even for Canadians, because of the sheer number of people applying.
Again, I don't know about the Canadian residency system. I know a bit about the US residency system, and that's it. I've heard that any Canadian residency is a good residency, and that it's not like it is in the US where people gun for "top tier" University or Ivy League residencies in aerospace neurosurgery or whatever and if you match FM in a less-desirable state you've basically exhausted all other options.
Good job on the work, but again without solid numbers on A: How many enter the system each year (you said it was less than <255 but what is the actual number and can you provide the source for <255?) and B: what happens to those who don't match the first time and C: how easy is it for people to get internships in Ireland and D: the citizenships of the people who matched you can't make too many conclusions from the data.
A. Sure thing, I can provide a source. From the email I received after requesting an application from the Atlantic Bridge Program, they stated that "The Irish medical schools admit up to 250 North American students each year through their cultural diversity
Atlantic Bridge Program. There are currently more than 900 North American students studying medicine in Ireland."
B. From the looks of things, those that don't match the first time enter 2nd round matching via CaRMS or NRMP. What they do in the meantime I couldn't say.
C. I am trying to figure out how difficult it is to gain an internship in Ireland as we speak. So far, it doesn't look too bad.
D. No, I can't make conclusions about the data without definitively knowing applicant's citizenships. However, nobody knows applicant's citzenships except for the ABP, and they haven't published that data as far as I'm aware. So, I'm doing my best.
As you cited regarding US citizens matching easier than Non-US citizens its definitely true, but I think a huge factor in why non citizens don't match as well is because of their english (which you mentioned), cultural skills which does have a role in patient care, cultural sensitivities as well as colleague interaction. I don't think the gap is as large between a Canadian vs US citizen applying.
This is very true.
Take issue with the Canadian Medical school system sucks. Super high standards. Much more difficult to get accepted than in US. I do agree that US has many fine med schools however.
Otherwise you did some great research that will be helpful to people.
I do take issue with the Canadian Medical school system. That it's more difficult to get accepted there as compared to the US is exactly why I'm criticizing it. To be fair, though, Canadians seem to be outperforming US students during their attendance of Irish Medical schools, and that's why I'm doing most of the research you've seen (since I'm a US citizen considering attending a predominantly-Canadian international student Irish medical school).
I'm also from California, and our schools are mostly as competitive to get into as Canadian medical schools. I can dredge up stats on the unfavorability of being a California medical school applicant as compared to other, less competitive states if you want, but here are their 4 year old admissions stats (average MCAT and GPA has uniformly gone up at each since then):
I don't want to seem argumentative, but the research here is a work in progress and the point of me posting it was to get feedback from you. I made the inflection a bit pointed, but that's because I believe that Irish medical schools are better than most, if not all, osteopathic colleges of medicine and on par with or better than US and Canadian MD schools. So, if US students are willing to invest in an education at an Irish medical school, they'd better wake up and smell the coffee. Hit the ground running and blow the USMLE away, or don't try and match a specialty. It's obvious that almost none are trying to go into primary care since next to 0 match family medicine, psychiatry, etc, and if they do go into internal medicine, it's at big university hospitals so that they can most likely line up a specialty fellowship.
As long as you're still bearing with me, I'm interested in anesthesia and psychiatry, and I'm going to be realistic about my residency chances. I'm writing a paper on a topic in anesthesia for my masters in pharmacology under an emeritus prof of anesthesia at Harvard Medical School, and will get a 1st author publication and a weighty letter. I'm going to work my ass off in medical school. And guess what? If I don't get at least a 220 on the USMLE, I'm not applying for an anesthesiology residency. Ireland is a way to attend a real medical school vs an osteopathic college of medicine, and gain a lot of culture and experience. But people should know that they won't be free to chill in the pubs, eat lucky charms, or do whatever it is that lazy students do in Ireland. End rant
