University of Maryland Class of 2012

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Unless someone wants to buy you a stethoscope as a gift, don't worry about it for now. There will be a meeting with vendors after Christmas and you can place your orders for all of the above (stethoscope, otoscope, ophthalmoscope) then.

MSIs do not need these items for ICM, except maybe at the very end (but definitely after the class has placed their orders). My personal opinion is that you don't really need the otoscope and ophthalmoscope. I have them because someone wanted to buy them for me as a gift. But I could probably have gotten by without them, just by grouping together with other students and borrowing theirs whenever there was a practice session during MSII. The only think you really NEED to purchase is the stethoscope. The otoscope and ophthalmoscope are pretty clunky and don't really carry well in your white coat, so I'm not sure how much I'll actually carry mine during rotations, but I guess I'll just have to wait and see. If I need them I'll have them, even though I probably won't need them. But again, my personal opinion is that you probably don't need them if you really don't want to spend the money. Definitely wait until 2nd semester though, there's no reason to worry about that stuff now.
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rogerwilco said:
As far as diagnostic sets (otoscopes, ophthalmoscopes, etc), what are your opinions on this? I assume we really should get them, even though many of our actual rotations will be in places with wall mounted ones. Do M1s need them for ICM stuff? And if so, what do we need and what do we not need to actually purchase?
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You wont need to worry about this stuff until your MS-2 year actually. For ICM MS-1, you'll learn how to take the patient history, which really is the most important part of your H&P (they drill it into you and it sounds kind of hackneyed after a while, but its true).

As for MS-2, youll need an oto/ophthalmoscope, a reflex hammer and a stethescope at the very minimum. Tuning forks and a penlight would also be very useful to have.
 
I'll be starting medical school at the University of Maryland this fall, and I'm looking for another male medical student to share a 2 bedroom / 2 bathroom apartment. Figured this was a good place to check, in addition to the UMB housing website.

It's a 2 bedroom, 2 bathroom condo in Otterbein on a safe and quiet street (Andrew Place) with plenty of closet space, washer/dryer, ac/heat, fireplace, dining area, living room, kitchen. 10 - 15 minute walk to school. 1/4 mile to Inner Harbor, 1/2 mile to Cross St Market in Federal Hill.

There is a parking spot in an off-street lot included in the rent (which is outstanding), as well as permit street parking. Move-in date is negotiable, and anytime after June 1st should be fine. Rent is $775 / month (water and parking included), and electricity usually runs from $30 - $100 / month (which would be split between two people). If you're interested or want more information, send me an email at [email protected]. Thanks.
 
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Please, please, please don't be the tool who shows up on the first day with a stethescope draped around your neck. We actually had someone do that, and they were mercilessly made fun of. There are at least 5 full-fledged RNs in our class, and not one of them came with medical gear in-hand for ICM. Don't be "that guy." Unless you like labels. :D

For ICM I, we didn't use our equipment until the end of the year, when we started learning some physical exam skills. Not every group did, though, and I think that the majority of groups just stuck with history-taking skills for the first year. Another reason to have gear is if you do a lot of shadowing. If you decide to take advantage of those opportunities, it helps to at least have a stethescope. I also advocate waiting to buy from the vendors - they give a pretty nice discount to the entire class, and it's easier because they come to you. You don't have to do the shopping. Although I agree that the oto/ophthalmo isn't a necessity (and it made up the bulk of my very expensive purchase), I found it extremely helpful to have both, especially during 2nd year. Whether or not they come in handy during clinical years has yet to be established.

Second year, when we really began focusing on PE skills, I carried everything in my white coat and used it during ICM-II. Yeah, it filled out my pockets a bit, but I found it useful to have my own oto/ophthalmoscope, because not every room in the hospital had a functional one, and it was just easier for me to get into a routine when I had everything in my pockets. I would take the base and the 2 heads (not the big plastic case), and have the disposable diaphragms already attached to the otoscope so I could change out heads quickly. That way, the only stuff I carried in my pockets was the base, the 2 heads, a few extra diaphragms, a couple tongue depressors, and my penlight. This sounds like a lot, but it was actually quite manageable. And, like I said, it made it infinitely easier to get into a routine for the HEENT exam. By the 5th patient I did it on, it was old hat. (Now, whether or not I actually knew what I was looking at? That's still under debate. :) But at least I knew how to go through the motions.)

Is anyone else having a difficult time buckling down and studying for the boards? I took one of those practice exams, and it really frightened me, so now I'm in panic/freeze mode. Someone motivate me! Please! :p
 
LadyWolverine said:
Please, please, please don't be the tool who shows up on the first day with a stethescope draped around your neck. We actually had someone do that, and they were mercilessly made fun of.
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LOL I actually remember that. Yes, you will get made fun of and will probs deserve it, but I have to say I appreciate this person's fire/enthusiasm.

LadyWolverine said:
Is anyone else having a difficult time buckling down and studying for the boards? I took one of those practice exams, and it really frightened me, so now I'm in panic/freeze mode. Someone motivate me! Please! :p
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You took one of the NBMEs? Which one? I wont even TOUCH one until the very end of this month...if I dont wait until I get through at least half of this stuff I'll convert my score and find that I failed and failed badly...probably still will, but at least ill be closer to passing :D

Well LW you can see it like this...if you dont get to studying, YOU'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO GET OUT OF BALTIMORE FOR RESIDENCY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scared much now?

With that said as you all know, Im tryin to get me and my girl out to Cali/Seattle/Chi-town/NYC/Philly. Nothing against Baltimore PM&R progs, But I've already been in Maryland a good 6 yrs now, its about time to change things up. That's pretty motivating for me, so that said, I'm out this bitch. BBL to check up!
 
MSKalltheway said:
LOL I actually remember that. Yes, you will get made fun of and will probs deserve it, but I have to say I appreciate this person's fire/enthusiasm.

Well LW you can see it like this...if you dont get to studying, YOU'LL NEVER BE ABLE TO GET OUT OF BALTIMORE FOR RESIDENCY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Scared much now?

With that said as you all know, Im tryin to get me and my girl out to Cali/Seattle/Chi-town/NYC/Philly. Nothing against Baltimore PM&R progs, But I've already been in Maryland a good 6 yrs now, its about time to change things up. That's pretty motivating for me, so that said, I'm out this bitch. BBL to check up!
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MSK, first of all, I also love/respect/appreciate said person's fire and enthusiasm. "They" have proved themselves not to be the person so many people believed "them" to be at the beginning of first year. I respect "them" very much and I am very happy that "they" are part of our class - as a matter of fact, I would love to have "them" on one of my rotations next year. I didn't mean to offend...I just meant it as a warning. Enough quotation marks already. :p

And, no, I didn't pay for one of the NBMEs yet...I just took the 150 free Qs on the USMLE site. THAT was pretty sobering (and, yes, I'm aware that it's supposed to be "easier" than the real thing). So, I'm hopefully planning accordingly, in terms of study.

And, yes, you frighten the HELL out of me with that. It's no secret that I don't want to stay in this city (or even in this area). You and I should move to Seattle, MSK. That's where it's AT. When I lived in Seattle, I had an apartment ON THE BEACH. In the summer, I'd either be on my rollerblades, on the sand on my towel soaking up the sun, in a kayak on the Sound, or hiking/camping on Rainier or in the Cascades. When the weather was crappy (in the winter - means snow in the mountains), no problem - just drove 45 minutes east and I was at the slopes where I had a (CHEAP) season pass for some QT on some amazing runs and the terrain park. There's very few places in the US where you can do both.

DAMMIT! I can't WAIT to go home!!!! I miss the "best" coast. :p
 
Oh LW, offending me? WHAT? Thats hilarious dude, the few things that anyone could do that would annoy/anger/upset me, you wouldn't do I promise you. Actually when you brought up the whole scope thing with "said" person (I know you love the quotes!), I was rolling on the floor :laugh: You know how many times I've poked fun at our colleague? I still do cause its SO FUNNY!!! But thats my dogg tho no joke, cause you know that I like you if I make fun of you :) I'm sure I have a few toolbag "what not to do" moments, and I would encourage anyone to put those on full blast to warn incoming students about what you can do to not look silly.

I knew that threat would scare you, we had many a talk about getting the hell out of here. Might I add that embryology sucks--if taking it the first time wasn't enough, studying it again is even worse (PS both UWorld and USMLEasy both love them some Meckel's diverticulum--add that to your embryo must knows).
Let's get residencies at U-Dub and run away together:love:
 
LadyWolverine said:
Wow, a waitlist for PSP? That's crazy.
PSP was definitely fun times. I'm really glad I did it.
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real quick question. i know normally exams are taken on the computer and stuff, but for the PSP program...how do we take them? b/c arent comps given out during orientation in august? or do we get our comps early? thanks
 
The PSP exams I took were all written. You are correct - you'll get your laptop in August.
 
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LadyWolverine said:
you'll get your laptop in August.
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Yeah and you'll hold onto them for a day or two until you are able to actually turn them on and activate them!

The allure does wear off towards the end of 1st year. Promise.
 
Just wanted to take a minute to bitch about the boards studying:

Biochemistry ****ING SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I'll try to make a petition to admin to present it more like boards format so it's not so daunting for future classes.

That will be all.
 
MSKalltheway said:
Just wanted to take a minute to bitch about the boards studying:

Biochemistry ****ING SUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think I'll try to make a petition to admin to present it more like boards format so it's not so daunting for future classes.

That will be all.
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I had heard from a 4th year student that one thing Maryland "doesn't do so well" is Biochem as far as preparing you for the boards. I was hoping he was just kidding, but maybe not?
 
rogerwilco said:
I had heard from a 4th year student that one thing Maryland "doesn't do so well" is Biochem as far as preparing you for the boards. I was hoping he was just kidding, but maybe not?
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I suppose I would have to get my scores back in July before I can tell you definitively, but from what I have been noticing it seems like our Biochem class has a different focus than what they emphasize on the boards. I think in some senses its fine since you dont want to strictly teach board material, but at the same time, I remember thinking to myself "Man, this is like undergrad all over again..."

I guess my suggestion would be to make it a little bit more medically focused. For instance, it would have been nice to learn about vitamins and clinically how to distinguish between the vitamin deficiencies (ie homeless person and/or alcoholic think Thiamine deficiency) since a lot of that is relevant to the biochemical pathways you'll learn. Also, I sat and memorized all the enzymes and substrates for the metabolic pathways, but dont remember ever focusing much on regulation of the pathways which is big on the boards.

That said, the stuff that is most important for the boards --> Infectious disease (they taught the hell out of that) and pathology, I do feel pretty well prepared for those. I also feel like they do a great job with neuro/psych and cardio, also two very important subjects.
 
MSKalltheway said:
I suppose I would have to get my scores back in July before I can tell you definitively, but from what I have been noticing it seems like our Biochem class has a different focus than what they emphasize on the boards. I think in some senses its fine since you dont want to strictly teach board material, but at the same time, I remember thinking to myself "Man, this is like undergrad all over again..."

I guess my suggestion would be to make it a little bit more medically focused. For instance, it would have been nice to learn about vitamins and clinically how to distinguish between the vitamin deficiencies (ie homeless person and/or alcoholic think Thiamine deficiency) since a lot of that is relevant to the biochemical pathways you'll learn. Also, I sat and memorized all the enzymes and substrates for the metabolic pathways, but dont remember ever focusing much on regulation of the pathways which is big on the boards.

That said, the stuff that is most important for the boards --> Infectious disease (they taught the hell out of that) and pathology, I do feel pretty well prepared for those. I also feel like they do a great job with neuro/psych and cardio, also two very important subjects.
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We should also probably note that there was a new course director for biochem teaching the class of 2011. Dr. Barcak passed away (the previous course director). So those of us in 2010 can't really attest to how the class was taught this year.

I think SQ was on the curriculum committee and had more info on how 2009 did on the boards last year. I remember her saying that we do pretty well though no specifics about different sections.
 
This is surely a stupid question, but do you guys sort of "study" for the boards along the way, as far as getting study materials during M1 (like the First Aid book, etc) and sort of look at how the material you're learning at that time in lecture is tested for Step I? I have no idea how the information is organized either in the study/review books or Step I itself, so maybe this question is useless. I just remember someone saying that it's a "good idea" to keep up with that stuff during M1 and M2 so that you feel like you've got some idea of what's going on before you start truly studying for boards after M2 finishes.
 
LucidSplash said:
We should also probably note that there was a new course director for biochem teaching the class of 2011. Dr. Barcak passed away (the previous course director). So those of us in 2010 can't really attest to how the class was taught this year.

I think SQ was on the curriculum committee and had more info on how 2009 did on the boards last year. I remember her saying that we do pretty well though no specifics about different sections.
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All I really know is how we do in terms of pass rate and average score. Our pass rate is generally high (97% or so) while the few people who don't pass generally had something serious going on in their personal life at the time. Our average score is about in line with the national average, though each year I think we tend to have some students that seriously rock out the scores so I don't know about the distribution.

As far as biochem being our weak point (if that is true), I doubt that would have to do with the way the course is taught, and more with the fact that it was all the way at the beginning of first year with no real review during second year. I definitely remember learning about all the different vitamins and what they do, as well as all of the glycogen and lysosomal storage diseases that I crammed for last week, though I couldn't remember any details about them. The only parts I've heard we have been weak on in the past (and this is strictly by word of mouth and through no official channels) is respiratory, heme, and possibly GI. Respiratory is hopefully improving now given the way they've revamped the first-year physio, heme is just heme, and GI supposedly because of how easy they make it during first-year (wasn't our average on that exam an 89-90%?).
 
Hey guys:

I don't know how many of you are hard-core sticking to your study routine that you planned out with OME, but for those of you with a little wiggle-room who are worried about the CMB/Biochem section of Step 1 (like me):

I've found it infinitely helpful to read over Lippincott's Biochem and HY CMB. I finished HY CMB in a day, but Lippincott takes a serious time committment - honestly, though, the information in there is REALLY high-yield. I used it during the CMB course (sporadically, and not in very much detail), but then put it away and promptly forgot about it because we didn't need it again. Now, I'm going through it chapter-by-chapter, and finding that the clinical correlates are SOLID GOLD (for example, G6PD deficiency, Hemoglobinopathies, etc). So, while I'm spending probably an inordinate amount of time on biochem, I'm also tying in heme, genetic diseases, connective tissue diseases, etc - stuff that we really didn't spend a lot of time on/stress during our CMB course, or even in year 2. I really wish I had done this earlier (seems to be my mantra as of late), but I'm hoping it'll be high-yield and worth the extra time. To give you an example: I didn't really "get" Thalassemias before when we did it in heme. 5 pages of Lippincott later (complete with diagrams), and I'm like, "duh, why didn't I read this during the school year??!"

Also, I can't plug this enough, but get RR Path (Goljan's book) and study from that when you get to systems-based path. It's FANTASTIC.

Good luck you guys! We'll do fine, don't worry. :)
 
rogerwilco said:
This is surely a stupid question, but do you guys sort of "study" for the boards along the way, as far as getting study materials during M1 (like the First Aid book, etc) and sort of look at how the material you're learning at that time in lecture is tested for Step I? I have no idea how the information is organized either in the study/review books or Step I itself, so maybe this question is useless. I just remember someone saying that it's a "good idea" to keep up with that stuff during M1 and M2 so that you feel like you've got some idea of what's going on before you start truly studying for boards after M2 finishes.
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I don't want your question to get lost so I'll take a stab at it though I'm not sure I'm the best to answer. I can tell you what I WISH I'd done in retrospect.

I wish I'd gotten a copy of First Aid and made a point to just skim each chapter as we went through that material in class. Not for anatomy, I don't think that would have helped. But other than that, I think skimming first aid would have been helpful in sorting through some of the information. A lot of what is in First Aid is pathophysiology, in physio during 1st year not as much would be applicable (the "normal physiology" sections in 1st aid are pretty succinct reviews). So you wouldn't spend as much time doing it 1st year. At the beginning of 2nd year I would definitely have started earlier than I did this year. I started doing this during the 2nd half of the year this year and on the sections where I was serious about it, I felt I had an easier time.

That said, I don't think many people did anything with First Aid during MSI. But many people definitely got a 2007 copy of First Aid at the beginning of the year and used it to some degree, more or less, during MSII.
 
how much patient interaction do we get in the pre-clinical years? is there any or does that not start until ms3?
 
soccerpunk60 said:
how much patient interaction do we get in the pre-clinical years? is there any or does that not start until ms3?
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Bleh. "Patient interaction."

You will have "patient interaction" at least 1x/week, starting first year. Second year, you will have more - between 1-2x/week.
You can have more, if you wish. You can shadow whenever you want (med school shadowing is different from pre-med shadowing), and you can also work something out with your ICM preceptor if you want to come and interview/work on physical exam skills more often.

You'll roll your eyes at "patient interaction" by the time you're a second-year, believe me. Although history-taking and physical exam skills are extremely valuable, most of us really despise the Busywork that goes along with it, and it definitely detracts from your study time. I was not a fan of the "diet diaries" and "patient journals" that we were expected to keep this year. Nor of the essays we have to write from time to time about "what it means to be a doctor." Not when I have physiology/pathology/pharmacology/etc. to study.

However, I really, REALLY enjoyed my actual hands-on ICM time (where we learn how to interview and examine patients), as well as the shadowing that I did. There were weeks where I was chomping at the bit to leave, though (usually right before exams).
 
Ok, how wary should I be of a ~$350/month (plus utilities) basement room (with private bath) in a rowhome in Ridgely's Delight? Any chance this is a half-decent place, or would I basically be signing up to lease a dungeon?
 
rogerwilco said:
Ok, how wary should I be of a ~$350/month (plus utilities) basement room (with private bath) in a rowhome in Ridgely's Delight? Any chance this is a half-decent place, or would I basically be signing up to lease a dungeon?
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Its hard to say. Can you request pictures from the landlord? Many students live in Ridgely's and I think the price is good. But there's definitely a lot of variance in the area.
 
rogerwilco said:
Ok, how wary should I be of a ~$350/month (plus utilities) basement room (with private bath) in a rowhome in Ridgely's Delight? Any chance this is a half-decent place, or would I basically be signing up to lease a dungeon?
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Ridgely's generally tends to be decent, but I would definitely go take a look at this apt before signing anything...that goes for no matter where you are looking, even if its The Redwood. Did the landlord ask you to sign anything without looking at it? If so I wouldnt even touch it cause that would be shady to me...offering a time to look is pretty standard. I apologize if I'm making any false assumptions about this.

If it is decent (no leaks, pests, everything working, dont have to pay 500/month for electric, etc) then that is a steal!
 
MSKalltheway said:
Ridgely's generally tends to be decent, but I would definitely go take a look at this apt before signing anything...that goes for no matter where you are looking, even if its The Redwood. Did the landlord ask you to sign anything without looking at it? If so I wouldnt even touch it cause that would be shady to me...offering a time to look is pretty standard. I apologize if I'm making any false assumptions about this.

If it is decent (no leaks, pests, everything working, dont have to pay 500/month for electric, etc) then that is a steal!
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All this is true. I was going based on the assumption that you were somewhere far away and couldn't get into town to look at the apartment. But its definitely best to get a look at the place first if at all possible. Some students make a short trip to B'more during the summer to look at places but for some its just not possible given the distance. In that case I would try and get pictures at the very least. With digital cameras these days, this is not too much to ask of a prospective landlord. Anyone that gives you a hard time about it is probably being a little unhelpful IMHO and that might be foreshadowing of what you can expect as a tenant.
 
rogerwilco said:
Ok, how wary should I be of a ~$350/month (plus utilities) basement room (with private bath) in a rowhome in Ridgely's Delight? Any chance this is a half-decent place, or would I basically be signing up to lease a dungeon?
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I know a person who lived there and it was terrible. You might be lucky though, I would just go have a look at it before even considering it.

EDIT: Also what LS said ^^^
 
Nirazila said:
I know a person who lived there and it was terrible.
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That's odd. Many of my classmates live in Ridgley's (some in very nice, newly rehabed rowhomes, I might add), and the worst I've heard is that someone's car was broken into last year. The neighborhood itself is actually fairly safe, when compared to other areas of Baltimore. It's super-close to the school, too. I agree that you should definitely take a look, but I doubt you're going to find a nicer area of town that's as close to campus as Ridgley's that has rooms that affordable. Places like Centerpointe and Redwood are also relatively close/safe and very nice, but you will pay through the nose.
 
LucidSplash said:
All this is true. I was going based on the assumption that you were somewhere far away and couldn't get into town to look at the apartment.
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Lol that's a good point, I actually didn't think about the fact he could be far away. In that case pics would be a good alternative.
 
Did you guys see panda's thread in pre-allo? It's frightening. I don't believe everything I read on the internets, but I wouldn't be surprised if the current cash crisis has healthcare admin cutting any and all costs fathomable. What really surprises me are a couple of the replies. When are people going to wake up and realize that, while medicine is, to some degree, about "helping people," you need to watch out for yourself, first? Nobody else will. I think that's how we got into this mess in the first place - always assumed that someone else would watch our back because our cause is so noble! I mean, we help people! You can't take our rights and privileges away! :rolleyes:

I thought I knew what I was getting into when I started. Honestly, if I had it all to do over again, I think I might have done something else. The status quo is NOT OK, let alone these new developments. But alas, golden handcuffs...

MSK, I think I might join you in PM&R.
 
See, this is why I should have graduated highschool early, done college in 2.5 years, and not taken any time off before entering medical school. I would be done with residency by the time the **** really hit the fan.

Oh wait that's a different thread in pre-allo.

^I'm actually waiting for someone to say something stupid like this in one of those threads now that Panda's posted about what his residency program is contemplating.
 
LadyWolverine said:
Did you guys see panda's thread in pre-allo? It's frightening. I don't believe everything I read on the internets, but I wouldn't be surprised if the current cash crisis has healthcare admin cutting any and all costs fathomable. What really surprises me are a couple of the replies. When are people going to wake up and realize that, while medicine is, to some degree, about "helping people," you need to watch out for yourself, first? Nobody else will. I think that's how we got into this mess in the first place - always assumed that someone else would watch our back because our cause is so noble! I mean, we help people! You can't take our rights and privileges away! :rolleyes:

I thought I knew what I was getting into when I started. Honestly, if I had it all to do over again, I think I might have done something else. The status quo is NOT OK, let alone these new developments. But alas, golden handcuffs...

MSK, I think I might join you in PM&R.
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Before things get better, they are going to have to get REALLY crappy. A viewer on CNN wrote an email saying "If McCain wins, I'll be rich, If Obama wins, I'll be happy". I lol'ed so hard because that is especially true for Dem physicians I feel. I was telling the girl this, and she said "SO???" She says that now because docs are still getting paid good money, and her ability to live in San Fran based on my pockets isnt inhibited yet :rolleyes: Regardless, Obama is still my boy :D

I digress...but yes, thing will get SO bad before they get better. A friend in dental school told me that in their residencies, they actually still pay and take loans out for it...difference is dentists who specialize are f'ing loaded, 500K in loans isnt really a problem for them, but a primary care doc? You probably saw me roll my eyes at the comments in the allo forum when people say "You cant go into primary care anymore because you cant pay back 250K on that salary!" Ummmm...the average PC doc still makes 150K.

150K

WTF do you want your kids eating ****ing gold and platinum???? Unless you had a family before med school or something, if you cant pay back 250 on 150, your IQ is < 70, to be PC. I still digress, but I promise this rant has a point...just had to get that off my chest.

What I'm saying is that things are not bad now, but especially if this whole "resident" to "student" thing pops off, things getting worse will accelerate far faster than I originally thought. I figured that after decades of bipartisan fighting, some form of universal health care will be implemented in our lifetime --> I'll be an academician at this point since private practice will not likely be lucrative. Combine no pay for residency --> more loans just to live --> less people wanting to pursue medicine. That will take a while, since there are a steady supply of rich people and those who can afford to go to the carribean and come back. But that can happen.

That and the push to go for "universal health care" will start cutting into physician salaries...somehow, maybe. If you have multiple, non-federal payors that reimburse better than medicare, I'll feel free to shut up. But that is too ideal...I'm sure there will be some kind of federal regulation, and it will suck. Some people think physicians get paid too much, fine you can have your opinions, but then I ask them this: If you want to bust your a** during your college years taking organic chem and physics instead of getting by taking intro to intro to psych and home-ec, 4 years of med school (and IMO only law and dental school are comparable in difficulty/lack of sleep), and a grueling residency (most of them) to become a full doc to have to worry about not only your patients health, but NOT getting sued by Joe Smith, JD who thought you owe their client $10 million because you should have taken that pulse and blood pressure during their clinic visit on a follow up about their herpes rash, why in blue hell shouldn't we be compensated well??? I never heard anyone say lawyers or engineers get paid too much :rolleyes::mad::rolleyes: Because of that mentality and the way things are currently going, physician salaries will be the first to go...resident salaries going arent as much of a concern for me.

My dad is forced to just bend over and take it from Medicare month after month. The last couple of payments of my brothers tuition, he shat himself daily, wondering if that Medicare check would come in just so he could pay my bros tuition on time so they would let him graduate. So what happened? Last payment, Februrary, check comes a couple days before the last payment was due...many days later than Medicare was supposed to pay him btw. The next month (thankfully no more tuition payments), the check came AFTER what would have been the deadline. Hes still waiting for his check from APRIL as I type this. If he had to pay Medicare and was late, he would be in court before he drove home from work that day.

Not to mention already that Medicare's crappy reimbursements are still steadily declining.

So people respect doctors huh? Actions speak louder than words, and one of the fastest ways to disrespect someone is to f*** with their pockets. Half of me is not surprised at this whole resident reclassification bit. I dont think it will fly, but thats a quick way to have the s*** hit the fan on high speed.

I've wanted to be a doc since I was 4 because yes, there is no greater feeling than someone being down and out because they are sick, and they get better because of something YOU did. There are few greater satisfactions. At the same time, we have families, and pay should be commensurate with liability, responsibility and hrs worked to some extent. Isn't that how it works in other professions??? Shouldn't salaries be going UP and not DOWN? Why is it that all the rules about getting paid in medicine are completely different than any other field? Pharmacists are paid well for their training, Dentists are paid crazy bank, CNRA's are unfairly making crazy money, Attorneys can make a killing, and dont get me started on athletes. I want to be a Sports Med doc, if you can pay A-Rod >25 million a year, why the hell cant I get 200-300K to keep him on the field? Oh right physicians dont REALLY matter...

LW, if things get really bad down the road, forget PM&R, you'll be following me into research/consulting.

Okay I'm done now. I'll stop being an angry black man on the internet, and be an angry black man with FA and UW
:smuggrin:

P.S. LW, LS I agree completely with you both
 
Nirazila said:
Could you summarize?
Click to expand...

Start with Panda's thread in pre-allo but stop when they start talking about Duke because the only relevance it has is in regard to Panda's "you can't trust bureaucracies" stance and otherwise its just people fighting about what happened at Duke. The beginning of the thread is the important part: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=529101

Panda's program is considering doing away with benefits to residents by reclassifying them as students. This means no health insurance, disability, etc etc. Depending on the situation of the individual, this can be pretty awful - in Panda's case he has a wife and 4 kids, but luckily only 1 year left so it won't affect him.

Additionally, there is speculation that at some point, given the current economy and health care $$ crunch, residency programs might "consider" doing away with salaries for residents entirely (after they've reclassified them as students).

Just speculation, but not unheard of or completely unwarranted given some of the other things going on in healthcare.
 
LucidSplash said:
Start with Panda's thread in pre-allo but stop when they start talking about Duke because the only relevance it has is in regard to Panda's "you can't trust bureaucracies" stance and otherwise its just people fighting about what happened at Duke. The beginning of the thread is the important part: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=529101

Panda's program is considering doing away with benefits to residents by reclassifying them as students. This means no health insurance, disability, etc etc. Depending on the situation of the individual, this can be pretty awful - in Panda's case he has a wife and 4 kids, but luckily only 1 year left so it won't affect him.

Additionally, there is speculation that at some point, given the current economy and health care $$ crunch, residency programs might "consider" doing away with salaries for residents entirely (after they've reclassified them as students).

Just speculation, but not unheard of or completely unwarranted given some of the other things going on in healthcare.
Click to expand...

Thats...absurd.

I want to say I seriously, seriously doubt resident salaries would be done away with entirely, simply because there would be no more doctors. No one would want to pursue it. I suppose paying more once residency is complete is an option but still, wow.

Ok I'll read the actual thread now.
 
Nirazila said:
Thats...absurd.

I want to say I seriously, seriously doubt resident salaries would be done away with entirely, simply because there would be no more doctors. No one would want to pursue it. I suppose paying more once residency is complete is an option but still, wow.
Click to expand...



I wouldn't be so sure about that.
 
rogerwilco said:
I wouldn't be so sure about that.
Click to expand...

Which is exactly one of Panda's points re: pre-meds and med students. He may be an opinionated old bastard, but I'm inclined to agree with him about this one. The profession may be killing itself from the inside out - because once you're in, there's almost no getting out. Which is what makes it so easy for our employers to take advantage of us.
 
rogerwilco said:
I wouldn't be so sure about that.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't either. Dentistry has been working like that for a good while. If you look at our own school of dentistry residencies, they get a small stipend, yet they still need to pay tuition. Its like that everywhere. Something like a 20K stipend and more like 30-40K in tuition. Cant believe that? Take a look at the pediatric dentistry website http://www.aapd.org/training/

The difference between medicine and dentistry is that as a dentist, if you are not making bank right out of school, especially residency you didnt get yourself a good deal. Actually if youre not making >300K as a dental specialist working more than 4 days a week, you got a crappy deal. I dont see why medicine couldnt adopt a similar system given that it seems it works for dentists, so they can find some kind of argument for doing it.

I should have graduated high school in 2 years and college in 2.5 so I could have been out of PM&R residency this year and not deal with this :laugh: 'K im just having fun with what LS said...

In all seriousness, if they do this, it will be a slow change. Its kind of a big deal...I know a lot of people depend on those salaries. People get married and have babies before med school, during it, and after it during residency. I know medical trainees tend to be lapdogs about a lot of things, its the culture. But I cant see this happening without a big fight.

Even those docs that lived at the hospital and walked uphill both ways in the snow barefoot had salaries.
 
Ok I read the thread.

I guess it doesn't sound so terrible (?), especially considering what MSK has brought up regarding dentistry, but there would have to be something done with loan providers, ie. reclassifying residency as "full-time student", and I'd like to see residents and future residents putting up a fight about this.

rogerwilco said:
I wouldn't be so sure about that.
Click to expand...

That was a bit of hyperbole. Fewer individuals will see medicine as a desirable career. However, I still believe that residents could "bounce back" if, somehow, overall physician salaries increase, such that after residency there is a sort of "making up for lost time". Is that reasonable?
 
Last edited:
Nirazila said:
Ok I read the thread.

I guess it doesn't sound so terrible (?), especially considering what MSK has brought up regarding dentistry, but there would have to be something done with loan providers, ie. reclassifying residency as "full-time student", and I'd like to see residents and future residents putting up a fight about this.



That was a bit of hyperbole. Fewer individuals will see medicine as a desirable career. However, I still believe that residents could "bounce back" if, somehow, overall physician salaries increase, such that after residency there is a sort of "making up for lost time". Is that reasonable?
Click to expand...

You are correct in that it wouldnt be so terrible if when we are finally docs, we were given certain things. Like increases in salary every year like every other profession somehow gets, but physicians dont. I know my rant above was a bit too long, but if you check out the example I made of my dad, my argument/bitching is relevant to what you brought up. The problem is that insurance companies base their reimbursements on Medicare. Although private insurance reimburses better than Medicare (sometimes), when Medicare sets a rate, everyone else follows suit. So if Medicare cuts reimbursements, then so does everyone else.

You are right, if almost every doc could get >250+ eventually like an established dentist could, then being reclassified as a student and taking out loans for living expenses wouldnt be so bad...sometimes. The problems you run into with that kind of system is that pretty much all medical residencies are longer than dentistry ones, most of them significantly so. Imagine if you were a neurosurgeon...undergrad debt, med school debt, and 8 years of residency debt. Ewww.

Take myself for instance. Went to undergrad on a full scholarship, as a result pops is helping me out some for med school. My debt will be minimal (and if i finally get instate in a month *fingers crossed*) if anything at all. Say they did this within the next year. If I go do PM&R + a sports/spine fellowship like I plan, thats 5 years of debt, probably 30-40K per year if im in large city or one of the coasts (Chicago, Seattle, Cali, NY) as that is where most (not all!) of the good training progs are. I'll also be getting married sometime shortly after med school, and presumably having children sometime during residency.

Sure, my girl is in law school, is interested in intellectual property and will probably have a good paying job (yesssssssssssssss!). But what about when it comes time for her to take the bar? She'll probably need me to support us for 6mo-1yr while she studies. When we have kids, what if she wants to work less and stay home for a few years? Also, after a while they do cap the loans you can take out too...so for me to take on another couple hundred thou in debt, plus her student loans, having to take care of a family when the 25K we get for living expenses is not even enough to care for a family, and not having health insurance and other benefits? It would honestly be more financially savvy for me to get a PhD and just do research, even after all this med school stuff. We would at least be able to buy a home sooner.

Couple that with declining reimbursements and a possible government regulated universal health care system, and its no longer financially stable to even go into medicine, that is, unless you plan on staying single with no kids until a few years after residency. And you still wouldnt even break even as a single person until you were in your early 40's at the earliest if you lived a single, frugal life.

Therin lies the problem. That's why Nirazila, I can only agree on the surface, cause initially, its not all that bad to me either cause im not sitting on loads of debt...yet. I cant at all complain about my financial situation when I get out, and I wont cause there isnt anything for me to complain about. But you can see from my scenario, how bad it can quickly get. I also think my situation is pretty ideal too, many of our classmates are already married, and a good number have a few kids too! Thats why its crippling for people like Panda Bear, no pay and no benefits for residency at the age of 25 for the youngest of us????

Thats borderline slavery.
 
Hey guys,

Has anyone gotten off the wait list yet for straight MD, not MD/PhD?
 
Do you guys find yourselves looking up the definitions of like 3 new words a day :confused: Where did all this stuff come from?

Like axonal "denudation" in Multiple Sclerosis...WTF???
 
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