Starting to regret going to an osteopathic school

[OSUdoc08]

I've read a few posts in this thread (and in other threads) suggesting that a DO = MD + OMT. I wanted to know how people feel regarding this generalization of osteopathic medicine. Do DOs learn everything that MD students learn (plus OMM). If this is the case, why is there a stigma associated with DOs (it would be silly not to acknowledge that one exists)?

Because of the small percentage of physicians in the U.S. that are D.O.s, a large percentage of people aren't familiar with the profession.

Out of ignorance, assumptions are made (however untrue they may be).

However, it isn't really important unless you feel that self-recognition is the primary concern of your profession.

If you simply want to learn & practice medicine in any area, then it shouldn't be a concern, because the opportunities will be there for you.

P.S. However, you still will get your self-recognition if you become a good physician, notwithstanding the letters by your name----just go to a hospital that has mixed staffs and see for yourself.

---

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[bones]

Frustrated DO

You are not alone. I would say 2/3 of your class feels the same way you do. The truth is many DO's couldn't get into an MD schools and would have done so had they gotten in. I would say maybe a 1/3 at best chose to go DO. There is no way to confim this idea however, the entrance stastics particularly the average MCAT scores of most DO schools are significantly lower than allopathic schools. Again, this confirms nothing but one could ask if it is merely a coincidence that so many DO's happen to have much lower MCAT scores.

Be careful about made-up statistics. While these estimates may be true at a few schools, for KCOM I don't think discontent is anywhere near that high. There was a time a few years ago when students were very frustrated with the OMM curriculum here as they still are at some other schools- but due to some changes over the last few years the osteopathic program has become quite strong.

I believe our average MCAT scores are indeed rather low, perhaps 27-29, but -why- this is the case isn't clear cut at all. I know that the selection criterion include many factors, and grades and MCATS are not as important as they are at many MD schools (as indicated by our two hour-long interviews with different faculty members during inverview day). I would be rather shocked if AZCOM averaged an MCAT of 24, and it would be irresponsible to say this is true or hypothesize why this is the case without personal knowledge from their admissions department.

If you have this personal knowledge of AZCOM, you may speak from your experience, but please don't generalize to all DO schools. If your school really was that bad and had THAT widespread discontent with the OMM department, read my earlier post- that advice will likely help make your educational experience worthwhile.

good luck,
michael

 

[bones]

The COMLEX is silly as well. We should have a separate OMM exam but we should all take the USMLE. It really makes no sense why we have the COMLEX.

I do agree with this. At the moment the comlex does not integrate OMM or osteopathic thought very well into more than a small percentage of questions (and most of these are straight OMM questions and have little general medical relevance)- so it offers little educational advantage over the USMLE.

We need to either improve integration or go with USMLE. But, there is little we can do unless we get involved in DO politics or help to write board questions with your faculty that do so. I suggest that if this is an issue for you- do something about it.

 

[novacek88]

I've read a few posts in this thread (and in other threads) suggesting that a DO = MD + OMT. I wanted to know how people feel regarding this generalization of osteopathic medicine. Do DOs learn everything that MD students learn (plus OMM). If this is the case, why is there a stigma associated with DOs (it would be silly not to acknowledge that one exists)?

What is this DO stigma you speak of? Okay, in all seriousness the DO stigma is really only held by pre-meds and some medical students. Most physicians and residents in practice usually do not hold this impression of DO's. You have to understand that most M.D.'s don't have the chance to work with D.O.'s until they are third year students. So it isn't until their latter years do they erase many of their pre-conceived notions about D.O.'s. There will always be some elitist jerks that like to think they are superior but in general the overwhelming number of M.D.'s don't have an issue with D.O.'s. But to answer your question, those who frown upon DO's do so out of elitism. It is more difficult to gain acceptance to an M.D. school than a D.O. school in general much like it is more difficult to get into an Ivy League law school versus a less prestigious. Why do people like Mercedes more than Toyota? Why would an athlete rather play at Miami versus UCF? It's pedigree but it doesn't mean the person is playing a different game or following a different course of study. We all still learn the same principles and study the same courses but some individuals feel the M.D. label has more pedgree associated with it. And in some cases it does especially when you are trying to match into the most prestigious fields and/or hospitals in the country. But as far as the ability to practice and prescribe medicine, there is no difference at all. The only exception is that D.O.'s can practice traditional allopathic medicine (M.D. medicine) in addition to OMM.

 

[novacek88]

Be careful about made-up statistics. While these estimates may be true at a few schools, for KCOM I don't think discontent is anywhere near that high. There was a time a few years ago when students were very frustrated with the OMM curriculum here as they still are at some other schools- but due to some changes over the last few years the osteopathic program has become quite strong.

I believe our average MCAT scores are indeed rather low, perhaps 27-29, but -why- this is the case isn't clear cut at all. I know that the selection criterion include many factors, and grades and MCATS are not as important as they are at many MD schools (as indicated by our two hour-long interviews with different faculty members during inverview day). I would be rather shocked if AZCOM averaged an MCAT of 24, and it would be irresponsible to say this is true or hypothesize why this is the case without personal knowledge from their admissions department.

If you have this personal knowledge of AZCOM, you may speak from your experience, but please don't generalize to all DO schools. If your school really was that bad and had THAT widespread discontent with the OMM department, read my earlier post- that advice will likely help make your educational experience worthwhile.

good luck,
michael

I have personal knowledge of AZCOM because I'm a 4th year. The year I applied he average MCAT score was a 24. Furthermore, it is irresponsible to imply your school does not weigh MCAT scores and GPA's as highly as allopathic schools simply because your school offers a lengthy interview. Many allopathic schools offer lengthy interviews as well and still boast high entrance stats. When I was applying to osteopathic schools, I never recalled reading anywhere on KCOM's website that it weighs grades and MCATs less than allopathic schools because they offer lengthy interivews. Can your admissions office provide this in writing? If it can't, it is just your opinion that your school does this. Therefore, I would be careful about admonishing others of generalizing. It is equally irresponsible to imply your school makes admission decisions based on what you believe.

I do not believe 2/3 of my school is dissatisfied with OMM. I'm not dissatisfied with OMM and I never implied such a thing. What I was stating was 2/3 of my school didn't seem intent on attending an osteopathic school in particular. Many people simply wanted to attend a medical school. Others loved AZCOM itself regardless of it's DO status. For example, they liked AZCOM's campus or location. Of course, this is just my perception. I was generalizing and I'm certain the dissatisfaction does not exist at KCOM like it does at other schools. However, you shouldn't generalize either based on your experience at KCOM. After all, KCOM was the first osteopathic school in the country and is arguably the most prestigious one. Therefore, it wouldn't at all be suprising to find that the majority of your class chose the DO route and is more open-minded toward OMM since it is the founding school. But again, this is a generalization and nothing more which I can candidly admit unlike some people.

Good Luck

 

[medic170]

I was generalizing and I'm certain the dissatisfaction does not exist at KCOM like it does at other schools. .

Please, do tell us at which schools the majority of the students (2/3) are MD wannabes who only went to DO school as a backup. I can tell you that MSUCOM can be added with KCOM as a school that is NOT like that. So, tell us which schools are like that and tell us how you know

 

[novacek88]

Please, do tell us at which schools the majority of the students (2/3) are MD wannabes who only went to DO school as a backup. I can tell you that MSUCOM can be added with KCOM as a school that is NOT like that. So, tell us which schools are like that and tell us how you know

I already stated I was generalizing so your saracasm is rather unnecessary. I attend AZCOM so my impression of AZCOM is that 2/3 of my class is that way. Of course, another student may perceive my school differently. How do you know MSCUCOM is like that? Did you take a poll or are you generalizing like me? I have a feeling it is the latter

 

[medic170]

I already stated I was generalizing so your saracasm is rather unnecessary. I attend AZCOM so my impression of AZCOM is that 2/3 of my class is that way. Of course, another student may perceive my school differently. How do you know MSCUCOM is like that? Did you take a poll or are you generalizing like me? I have a feeling it is the latter

Because I know and talk to the students. If you admit that your generalizations are invalid, stop doing it. Like bones said, speak about AZCOM all you want, but don't generalize it to other schools of which you have no first hand knowledge.

 

[novacek88]

Because I know and talk to the students. If you admit that your generalizations are invalid, stop doing it. Like bones said, speak about AZCOM all you want, but don't generalize it to other schools of which you have no first hand knowledge.

Basing your opinion through conversations with students is still just your perception and thus your comments are a generalization as our mine. I know and talk to students as well and I can guarantee you someone else at AZCOm will arrive at a different perception of our student body. I think we have to remember this is a public forum so nearly everyone here is merely lending their opinion. Let's apply a little common sense and assume one is being opinionated here especially if they fail to assert their statements are a conclusive fact which I never made. I never said my opinion extends to all schools. Please show me where I stated that?

Chill out dude. Everyone is simply providing their 2 cents including you.

 

[medic170]

Basing your opinion through conversations with students is still just your perception and thus your comments are a generalization as our mine. I know and talk to students as well and I can guarantee you someone else at AZCOm will arrive at a different perception of our student body. I think we have to remember this is a public forum so nearly everyone here is merely lending their opinion. Let's apply a little common sense and assume one is being opinionated here especially if they fail to assert their statements are a conclusive fact which I never made. I never said my opinion extends to all schools. Please show me where I stated that?

Chill out dude. Everyone is simply providing their 2 cents including you.

Whatever

I never said my opinion extends to all schools. Please show me where I stated that?

.

Here are 2 of them.

I'm certain the dissatisfaction does not exist at KCOM like it does at other schools. ..

I would say 2/3 of your class feels the same way you do. The truth is many DO's couldn't get into an MD schools and would have done so had they gotten in. ..

 

[docbill]

you guys give it a break... or better yet knock it off... if you don't like a post just ignore it.This kind of argument would not be going on in an Allo program.
For DO programs this is a real turn off. Fighting about identity.

I am very happy to be starting a DO program.

I am happy that I will be tought ALLO MEDICINE WITH AN OSTEO PHILO/TOUCH.

I am VERY HAPPY that I will be tought OMT. (I have been having back pain for the last 2 weeks, and I would kill for a DO that practices OMT. None here so I just take 2 Ibiprofin and do some stretches).

I would accept an Allo medicine program, especially if it is closer to home and cheaper.
However I would loose that training in OMT. Also I would not be special anymore. Having only 5% of doctors being DOs makes this degree very special and very unique. At least in Canada and Europe the whole body/prevention/better lifestyle/less medication approach would be a big seller. OMT WOULD BE AMAZING... ask the people who have back pain.

 

[Lowbudgt]

hey all i wanted was MD (since ny doesnt have DO) plates so i can park wherever i want.....

 

[docbill]

hey all i wanted was MD (since ny doesnt have DO) plates so i can park wherever i want.....

are you serious.. MD in NY have their own plates and can part anywhere.. wow.. that is a sweet treat.

AOA should get right on that. I am going to have to reconsider my options..

Even though I live in Toronto and I am glad that I don't drive.. I walk everywhere in the city and if I need to I take the submay... and I don't need to worry about parking insurance.. someone scratching my car, or the snow.. FYI.. it is snow today. Man that is going to be different from Maine next year.

 

[Eiko]

Frustrated DO

You are not alone. I would say 2/3 of your class feels the same way you do. The truth is many DO's couldn't get into an MD schools and would have done so had they gotten in. I would say maybe a 1/3 at best chose to go DO. There is no way to confim this idea however, the entrance stastics particularly the average MCAT scores of most DO schools are significantly lower than allopathic schools. Again, this confirms nothing but one could ask if it is merely a coincidence that so many DO's happen to have much lower MCAT scores. For example, the U of A's average GPA and MCAT was a 3.6 and a 28 MCAT when I applied. However, AZCOM average GPA was a 3.5 and a 24 MCAT. I wouldn't call the discrepancy in MCAT scores as being insignificant. Regardless, entrance stats do not make a physician but if you are discussing whether students chose to go DO, I find these stats to be insightful.

Yes, our residency system is awful which is why you see nearly 70% of a DO class elect to do an allopathic residency. And this is not because there are limited osteopathic residency spots. There are hundreds of unfilled osteopathic primary care residency positions every year. In fact, some derm programs at osteopathic hospitals require their students first complete a family practice residency prior to entering their derm residency because they can't fill those family practice spots otherwise. Rarely will you see a DO choose to an osteopathic residency in primary care fields. The only time a student chooses a DO residency is if he or she wants to specialize and thus increase their odds of matching into a competitive field. The COMLEX is silly as well. We should have a separate OMM exam but we should all take the USMLE. It really makes no sense why we have the COMLEX. And I couldn't agree more with your. Finally, it is embarrassing how we open new schools every year yet we do practically nothing to improve the quality of our residency programs and open new programs in specialized fields. At AZCOM, it is apparent that money is the bottom line because they keep raising our tuition to open a podiatry schools instead of doing more to open rotation opporunities locally. AZCOM was too cheap to pay for local rotation priviledges which is why the U of A blacklisted them from rotation priviledges.

I do agree with others in that you really have no right to complain. I would be suprised if you didn't know about these issues beforehand? I did my research and knew the drawbacks to atttending a DO school but I had no choice. It was either DO or the Carribean and I chose DO which I do not regret. Yes, at times I get frustrated by many aspects of the osteopathic education process. At the same time, I have to come to respect and understand many aspect of OMM that I previously thought of as witch craft. You will be suprised at how amazing OMM can be when you learn more about it. Overall, you will have the opportunity to become a physician, which is a privilege not a right. I understand your frustration but realize you chose to go DO. You could have reapplied or attended a school in the Carribbean. So show some guts, tough it out and accept your fate. You chose this process. Focus on the positive and ignore the negative.

There are many positive aspects to attending a DO school as well. I love my classmates. With DO students, you don't get that same gunner cutthroat mentality that you get an MD school. The upper classmen at my school were very supportive of us when we were MS1 and MS2's. I really feel like I can walk into many local DO's offices and they will be supportive of you as if you were in the same fraternity in college. Most of DO students seem to be older or embarking on a second career. Thus, I have noticed many DO students are very laid back and much more mature than many allopathic students. In addition, professors at DO schools seem to be more personal. At your traditional MD school. your professors are researchers or very esteemed people who are unapproachable. Ask MD students how often they can walk into their professors office and ask questions. Finally, I have worked with osteopathic attendings and they don't carry the same hazing/pimp mentality that many allopathic attendings have. I like that approach much more.

To those who have been offended by my post, I can understand why you would be upset with my comments. You may have the last word as i only wanted to lend my opinion. I will not engage in a flame war. Have the last word and once again, I apologize if I have offended anyone.

Thank you. That is exactly how I feel.

Yeah, their are down points to the DO process... the fact that most lay people have no idea what a DO is... "Is that a chiropracter?" I have been asked.

But I am happy with choosing to apply to only DO schools. Yeah, I would like the "prestige" (notice it's in quotation marks) of attending an allopathic school or writing MD behind my name, but that is about it.

Everything else about the DO process (heavens, I know nothing about the residency programs, so exclude them out of this comment) is exactly the way I want to learn medicine.

 

[DFrancyk]

Seriously, all of you are being a bunch of dinguses. If you are in DO school and disagree with the philosophy, then why did you even apply? Because you couldn't get into an MD school? Conversations such as this are absolutely pointless. MD, ND, DO, DC, hell whatever... they all have there place in medicine. All these philosophies have one common goal and that is to help the body heal as it would do by itself if it could. Get real... it doesn't matter in the end. No one gives a **** as long as you have the knowledge to help them. And if you don't. Well thats not the degree's fault. Its your own. So grow up and take responsibility.

 

[pushinepi2]

Thank you. That is exactly how I feel.

Yeah, their are down points to the DO process... the fact that most lay people have no idea what a DO is... "Is that a chiropracter?" I have been asked.

Its chiropractOR... and the lay publuc will never fully appreciate the differences between osteopaths, naturopaths, homeopaths, allopaths, and quackopaths. It is up to osteopathic physician/clinicians to maintain exceedingly high practice standards. When a member of the public says, "wow.. I didn't know that guy was a DO.." I consider that a compliment and an educational opportunity. Its difficult to open up those rusty doors of perception.

But I am happy with choosing to apply to only DO schools. Yeah, I would like the "prestige" (notice it's in quotation marks) of attending an allopathic school or writing MD behind my name, but that is about it.

Writing MD after your name gives you prestige? That seems to me an entirely personal issue. Your future patients will not care what those letters are provided that the receive excellent care and get their meds refilled on time.

Everything else about the DO process (heavens, I know nothing about the residency programs, so exclude them out of this comment) is exactly the way I want to learn medicine.

The DO process? The years of training focused on maintaining health? The uniquely osteopathic and holistic approach to wellness? Where do you perform clinical rotations, at an osteopathic teaching hospital?... now that's a rare find indeed....


Its rather ironic to read post after post about identity crisis/regret and then watch the misunderstandings snowball right here on SDN. There are several points in the preceeding posts on which I'd like to comment.

1. OMM as, "witchcraft": It will forever be regulated to the realm of witchcraft until clinical trials bear it out. Like it or not, the western world is obsessed with evidence based medicine and formulates guidelines, as we all know, on available data. While it is true that OMM incorporates much, 'art', it is also undeniable that much of OMM is like a fable.. passed on from generation to generation. The clinic at our school showcases this very fact. Students and faculty can visit the OMM clinic and receive treatments ranging from tried and true counterstrain to laser and prolotherapy. (Did I also mention acupuncture?) I can personally attest to the efficacy of OMM but I am extremely reluctant to utilize it in a clinical setting due to these dubious aspects. I believe that OMM can find its place within the current medical literature but only after the current osteopaths are willing to subject the entire arsenal of techniques to scrutiny. Unfortunately, many manipulative medicine teachers are far more interested in searching for the holy cranial grail than integrating their techniques into the mainstream.

2. DO residencies: This issue has been debated so long that most avid users of SDN can name the top 10 objections to osteopathic graduate medical education. I wholeheartedly disagree with people who suggest that DO students should, "live with" their decisions. There is much incorrect and misleading information out there with respect to DO training and education. First of all, "pre med" advisors at most colleges know nothing specific about DO schools and cannot make knowledgeable recommendations about the osteopathic course of study. Honestly.. when starting your medical education, how many future DO's knew about issues pertinent to the osteopathic match, the internship, the GME funding disparity, and the generalized confusion about manipulative medicine? Students should not be blamed in any way for their objections and challenges to the current osteopathic dogma. Its fortunate that the profession can tolerate such discourse. The real concern is whether or not the profession will move forward and cease the ridiculous debate about "loss of identity."

The fact is- our identity is already, "LOST!" When DO's labored (intensively, as we all know) for equal practice rights, we made a committment to similar preclinical, clinical, and graduate medical education. The practice rights, prescription privileges, and scope of practice between MDs and DOs are indistinguishable. Now that osteopathic physicians have made it into the mainstream, we lament the acceptance! We forged ahead with such speed that we've forgotten to take care of ourselves! It no longer matters that DO's originally focused on generalist and primary care. Now that DOs are appreciably, "equal" to MDs, osteopathic students and the public at large are correct to expect similar education, training, and competence.

As osteopathic medical students, we're almost manic... we go through the extremes of satisfaction, frustration, resentment, and then eventually achieve peace of mind. The issue of osteopathic education is exceedingly comlex (hah!) and goes beyond the scope of this thread. In the spirit of closure, however, here are some final thoughts.

The term "paradox" has been used in the past to describe our profession. I believe that term is timeless. DOs have evolved rapidly and have adopted most of the rules and regs of the allopathic profession. Indeed, 45 states in our beloved union have combined medical licensing boards. As such, it is the responsibility of DO graduates and schools to practice medicine in a respectful, clinically competent, and scientific manner. 2004 is NOT 1894 and we are no longer flinging our banner of osteopathy to the breeze. The public doesn't care to read some shiny pamphlet about the, "DO difference." Most of them, I think, want and subsequently deserve excellent doctors. It is also our responsibility, therefore, to integrate manipulative medicine into sound clinical practice. Just like drugs and surgery, OMT should withstand the rigors of clinical trials. The development of, "evidence based" OMM guidelines might help elevate the osteopathic profession and reclaim some of that elusive prestige. Currently, the practice of OMM is highly politicized and inconsistent. Anyone who thinks otherwise of the wonders of OMM is encouraged to visit the clinic in South Florida for a cranial massage, a laser light show, some acupuncture, and a little prolotherapy.... and who knows? Maybe the next clinical trial will make me eat my words! Finally, this issue of osteopathic vs. allopathic GME has GOT to go away. I agree with previous posters that COMBINED accreditation, COMBINED matching, COMBINED resources, and COMBINED funding will eventually lead to COMBINED credibility. Good luck to all and don't have no regrets!

 

[NKMU]

my advice for anyone frustrated with the OMM department at their school...

go shadow in the OMM department

the difference between sitting through OMM lab and actually watching it done is the difference between trying to learn the alphabet and reading a novel.

and remember, in most cases the departments are run by clinicians, not phds or profesors. we have to xpect some level of disorganization.

Ha! I tried that, and it made my disbelief in OMM even stronger. I was okay when we (the OMM prof/doc and I) did some passive stretching on an old guy who hurt his leg. I felt uncomfortable when I was told to hold my hand on the sacrums of 3 unsuspecting patients for upwards of 5 minutes each while the doctor "manipulated" their cranial bones. By the time the doctor was "treating" a young boy's ADHD with cranial manipulation, I was ready to vomit and run out the door. I wanted to apologize to the poor boy (he was clearly embarrassed to be there) and shout at his gullible parents to leave and never come back.

/off to read the rest of this thread

 

[xadmin]

There should only be 1 Physician degree. Whatever that maybe....MD. DO are just 2nd rate medical school.

 

[Fin-Nor]

There should only be 1 Physician degree. Whatever that maybe....MD. DO are just 2nd rate medical school.

good lord, look what happens when you resurrect an ancient thread.

 

[fuegorama]

There should only be 1 Physician degree. Whatever that maybe....MD. DO are just 2nd rate medical school.

From he who learn second rate Engrish.

 

[ilona]

quit whining and do something about it....lobby or get involved with politics. Starting a new account on an anonymous board with a post that will piss people off is not a constructive way to go. I don't care how you prefaced it.

Weeeelllll....I think he has the right to whine. And it is easy to say go and change the world. Have you ever disagreed with something and tried to change it? Not as easy.

 

[ilona]

Hey Frustrated DO,

This person is way, way into cranial, says they practice "energy medicine", doesn't know CRAP about clinical medicine at ALL (like how to treat hypertension), says that OMM can cure dyslexsia, etc, and refuses to have lights on in their office because it ruins the "aura". We have to do breathing exercises ("picture the blue light...") and we're called "brilliant children of the universe".

HA HA HA.. this sounds like a scene from Harry Potter. Can't wait to start!

 

[Robz]

Weeeelllll....I think he has the right to whine. And it is easy to say go and change the world. Have you ever disagreed with something and tried to change it? Not as easy.

you can whine...no problems there...I have the right to call you out as a troll. (troll = posting material that gets people riled up on a brand new account or just for the hell of it) Quit adding to the problems and start working to fix em. Thats what I do.

You should see what i do at school to try and get things done....and no its not easy.

 

[OSUdoc08]

There should only be 1 Physician degree. Whatever that maybe....MD. DO are just 2nd rate medical school.

ha

what

an

idiot



trolly

troll

troll

 

[kota315]

Wow....I cannot believe I just took the time to read all those posts.....

May I add a little bit of perspective.....

I have been working as an RN in the emergency department of three hospitals in Western Michigan for the last 3 1/2 yrs. I chose to work at a three distinct hospitals, a small community hospital (which is staffed by the doctors from our local level one trauma center), a level three osteopathic hospital in the subs, and a level two trauma center in the inner city....so needless to say, I see all the action as well as working with 20+ attending’s and countless residents from both sides of the table.

Now here is the beauty of what I see....it is the person that makes the doctor and not the degree.....everywhere I work, including the osteopathic hospital, has a mix of DO's and MD's. These boys and girls work together as a team, no distinctions between the degree's, and to the patients they are all just "doctor". The funny thing is at the level 2 trauma center, a DO runs the ED as well as a second DO running the ER group. Now at the osteopathic hospital an MD is in charge of the ER residency program and the ER group, and this guy has to be one of the most well rounded and intelligent individuals I have had the opportunity to work with, and calls himself a DOWB (D.O. Wanna Be).

I guess what I am trying to say here is that you get what you want out of your education. I attended one of the "best" nursing programs in Michigan, or so the numbers said. Let me be the first to tell you that I hated nursing school, I never wanted to be a nurse, but used the experience as a means to an end, i.e. medical school (GO LECOM c/o 2009). I too had to endure many painful classes that in my opinion had nothing to do with being a nurse (we actually had mandatory lab on how to make a hospital bed for Pete’s sake!).

Do what they want you to do and get done, to quote the brilliant Dr. Dwyer "get the letters after your name for that is truly all that matters, not the school or the grades, just the letters", and I have to agree.....once your done, you can do what you want and use the tools that have been provided to you.

I interviewed several doctors, both MD's and DO's in preparation for medical school, and the statement that stuck with me the best was the statement by Dr. Dykstra when I asked him why he wanted to be a DO. He told me that being a doctor is like being a carpenter, you have a project that needs repair....now MD's have a nail and a hammer which is more then enough to make the repair, DO's however also have a screw driver, saw, and a tape measure....OMM is just another tool in your pouch. You may never need or want to use it, but it is there for the taking.

Remember.....you can't spell doctor without the DO!

Mark

LECOM Bradenton c/o 2009

 

[medicine1]

 

[kota315]

No, thank you...

 

[Ponte-Claret]

As I sit here and try to memorize the locations of 50 tenderpoints, I can't help thinking that OMM is not my favorite subject. Oh, how I hate you, Dr. Counterstrain, DO.

 

[cooldreams]

As I sit here and try to memorize the locations of 50 tenderpoints, I can't help thinking that OMM is not my favorite subject. Oh, how I hate you, Dr. Counterstrain, DO.

oh gee... how unbelieveablly lame for you to say that. your comment does nothing positive or negative for omm, but rather makes you look horrid and scary as a potential doctor. unable to memorize 50 different things too easily ... i had to know more than that in kindergarten.... wow..........

here have some cheese with your WHINE

 

[Gibby Haynes]

....it is the person that makes the doctor and not the degree.....
LECOM Bradenton c/o 2009

Amen, brother.

 

[Echinoidea]

oh gee... how unbelieveablly lame for you to say that. your comment does nothing positive or negative for omm, but rather makes you look horrid and scary as a potential doctor. unable to memorize 50 different things too easily ... i had to know more than that in kindergarten.... wow..........

Wow. You should work on an admissions committee. This is a great talent of yours, this ability to flawlessly predict who will and will not become "horrid and scary potential doctors". I guess in your effortless breeze through medical school, your vast intellect (picked up in kindergarten, while the rest of us were napping) allows you ample spare time to browse SDN and let people know when they don't live up to the standards you set. Now, shouldn't you be in the library, ripping pages out of books like the rest of the gunners?

You are a freaking toolbox. Get a life.

 

[OSUdoc08]

oh gee... how unbelieveablly lame for you to say that. your comment does nothing positive or negative for omm, but rather makes you look horrid and scary as a potential doctor. unable to memorize 50 different things too easily ... i had to know more than that in kindergarten.... wow..........

You're not even in medical school.

You have no idea.

to you.

 

[cooldreams]

*slams the desk* that is total bs! whether you have to learn 100 things or 10000 things, 50 more things is simple. if you cant seem to learn 50 more things then drop out! you shouldnt be in medical school!!!!!!! you have not even graduated yet, you have WAY more than 50 more to learn

oh and pick on me for not being in med school? wow nice meaningful change of subject from YOU not being able to learn 50 things. i have personally tested to be quite brilliant, and any stabs at my intelligence simply shows your ignorance.

if you want to argue for the whole of omm being too much fine. go to an md school. otherwise, tough it out or drop out. quit your whinning... damn...

 

[cooldreams]

Wow. You should work on an admissions committee. This is a great talent of yours, this ability to flawlessly predict who will and will not become "horrid and scary potential doctors". I guess in your effortless breeze through medical school, your vast intellect (picked up in kindergarten, while the rest of us were napping) allows you ample spare time to browse SDN and let people know when they don't live up to the standards you set. Now, shouldn't you be in the library, ripping pages out of books like the rest of the gunners?

You are a freaking toolbox. Get a life.

im not the one saying i cant handle it. im not the one saying oh gee, 50 more things, whatever will i do. im not the one who entered medical school and then didnt want to learn the coursework. so im the tool because you cant handle it? o.k.....

 

[OSUdoc08]

im not the one saying i cant handle it. im not the one saying oh gee, 50 more things, whatever will i do. im not the one who entered medical school and then didnt want to learn the coursework. so im the tool because you cant handle it? o.k.....

Wow you've really showed your maturity level here. Learning specific spots on a human skeleton, which must be determined through layers of skin, fat, muscle, and fascia can be difficult, and take some time to learn.

With other exams looming, such as in my case, neuroanatomy, renal physiology, and bacteriology, I will have little time to get these tender points learned.

You cannot even begin to relate to my situation, and attempting to insult us really demonstrates your character, and allows us all to evaluate your actual personality. Yes, it would be easy if this were the only course I am taking, but it is not. Yes, I will get the material learned, but it will take hard work.

Whenever it gets tough for you in medical school, remember how you responded to others in a similar situtation.

 

[cooldreams]

Wow you've really showed your maturity level here. Learning specific spots on a human skeleton, which must be determined through layers of skin, fat, muscle, and fascia can be difficult, and take some time to learn.

With other exams looming, such as in my case, neuroanatomy, renal physiology, and bacteriology, I will have little time to get these tender points learned.

You cannot even begin to relate to my situation, and attempting to insult us really demonstrates your character, and allows us all to evaluate your actual personality. Yes, it would be easy if this were the only course I am taking, but it is not. Yes, I will get the material learned, but it will take hard work.

Whenever it gets tough for you in medical school, remember how you responded to others in a similar situtation.

im not the one insulting your intelligence by saying you are struggling to learn 50 things, 50 things that thousands of medical students before you have had to learn, i believe that would be you.

this whole arguement is ridiculous, and this is my last post.

 

[Elysium]

im not the one insulting your intelligence by saying you are struggling to learn 50 things, 50 things that thousands of medical students before you have had to learn, i believe that would be you.

this whole arguement is ridiculous, and this is my last post.

Holy sh1t dude. At first I thought you were kidding, but I guess you're serious about actually chatising someone who's in a position you can't even relate to! You have NO idea what it's like to memorize 50 counterstrain points (for our exam we had to learn like 125 and it was so awful I wanted to throw up). You have NO idea what it's like to take OMM in addition to 8 other classes (which actually have real science behind them - like anatomy and physiology) and to have a week of exams. So, in essence, YOU, are the one who is on the road to being a crappy doctor. Your lack of compassion and empathy is absolutely disgusting. I hope you get your ass handed to you next year when you acutally start medical school.

 

[cooldreams]

Holy sh1t dude. At first I thought you were kidding, but I guess you're serious about actually chatising someone who's in a position you can't even relate to! You have NO idea what it's like to memorize 50 counterstrain points (for our exam we had to learn like 125 and it was so awful I wanted to throw up). You have NO idea what it's like to take OMM in addition to 8 other classes (which actually have real science behind them - like anatomy and physiology) and to have a week of exams. So, in essence, YOU, are the one who is on the road to being a crappy doctor. Your lack of compassion and empathy is absolutely disgusting. I hope you get your ass handed to you next year when you acutally start medical school.

heh... no science in omm...

 

[OSUdoc08]

heh... no science in omm...

My OMM exams have had extensive material from gross anatomy, neuroanatomy, and physiology. There is a large amount of science that goes into OMM.

But then again, I forgot that you, a premed, are an expert in all things that occur in medical school.

 

[tkim]

closing.