Any non-traditional students regretting going to medical school

[Chads2]

Truthfully, I feel better equipped to handle the rigors of medical school at 50 than I ever would have in my 20's... I have maturity, life experience, research and job experience, financial security, the ability to relate to faculty and attending physicians, and an amazing sense of peace and self-confidence.

Well, you’ve taken some incoming and I don’t know enough about you or anyone else here to say whether you’re as prepared as you feel you are.

But let me tell you what I do know... medicine, for better or worse, is a hierarchy. Faculty / Attending Physicians don’t want you to relate to them. Your inner sense of self confidence will either come across as arrogant...or worse yet, shrivel up.

I am sincerely proud of you for finally pursuing what YOU want to do after having apparently put yourself secondary to others for most of your life. And I hope you succeed; but only you can decide what success is. If just saying that you did it is success...or if practicing for 8 years and retiring at 65 is success...or if saving just one life is success...that definition is up to you.

I would just be aware that everyone here is telling you about their experiences and that it is a truly rigorous path, including some here who wish they never took that path in the first place. Maybe describing you as naive is not the right word, but I would at least use the word “presumptive.” Your life experiences put you in a place of understanding of yourself... but no one understands what’s ahead of you unless they’ve been through it, and for that, it doesn’t matter if you’re 25 or 50.

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[Chads2]

I’m more just being thrown into a room, expected to use UpToDate to come up with a plan if I don’t know how to treat something (I am often expected to finish notes before my preceptor comes in for the day, so I don’t have anyone to ask if I have questions)

I come in 1.5-2 hours before rounds and tell students that’s their time. Ask me questions, run things by me, even practice your presenting if that’s the level that you’re at. So if a student is struggling and takes advantage of that time, then they improve. And if they don’t take advantage of that offer, then it’s on them

I’ve had four preceptors so far straight up tell me on the first day something along the lines of, “By the way, I don’t like to teach,” ”I’m not a good teacher,” or “If you have a question, ask, but otherwise I don’t really teach.”

To me, this is just sad but I also know it to be true. In my hospital, we have teaching and non-teaching physicians for IM. Hopefully we have everyone in the right roles. And as I like to tell students, “if I know it, I’ll teach it to you. If I don’t know it, we’ll look it up and you’ll teach it to me.”

 

[Doc_Ock]

Going to med school at 50 screams naivety and entitlement to me.

Naivety sure. Entitlement tho?

 

[tevvie]

Nope, it sucks at times not having full financial independence or mandatory nonsense cutting into my free time but I am doing what I like.

 

[funfetti123]

I'm only an OMS1 but I'm already feeling very isolated in school from my friends/family and can see how long the road is ahead. I was a nurse for a few years prior to medical school so I'm not new to healthcare. I'm only 27, I feel like I shouldn't even be complaining as I have a handful of classmates older than me, although a majority of the class seems to be 20-24. I used to travel a lot, most of my friends are getting married, buying homes, traveling or having children and here I am stuck in a weird transitional time of my life until at least 34 (post residency).

I'm not sure where these feelings are coming from as med school is what I dreamed of and I thought I understood the sacrifice beforehand, but now that I'm here I just wish I was still making money to put towards my retirement and being able to buy a house/have kids. I apologize as this post might seem to come across as whiny/ungrateful. I suppose I just wanted my cake and to eat it, too. Any other non-trads feeling this way for one reason or another?

 

[funfetti123]

I'm only an OMS1 but I'm already feeling very isolated in school from my friends/family and can see how long the road is ahead. I was a nurse for a few years prior to medical school so I'm not new to healthcare. I'm only 27, I feel like I shouldn't even be complaining as I have a handful of classmates older than me, although a majority of the class seems to be 20-24. I used to travel a lot, most of my friends are getting married, buying homes, traveling or having children and here I am stuck in a weird transitional time of my life until at least 34 (post residency).

I'm not sure where these feelings are coming from as med school is what I dreamed of and I thought I understood the sacrifice beforehand, but now that I'm here I just wish I was still making money to put towards my retirement and being able to buy a house/have kids. I apologize as this post might seem to come across as whiny/ungrateful. I suppose I just wanted my cake and to eat it, too. Any other non-trads feeling this way for one reason or another?

I'm only an OMS1 but I'm already feeling very isolated in school from my friends/family and can see how long the road is ahead. I was a nurse for a few years prior to medical school so I'm not new to healthcare. I'm only 27, I feel like I shouldn't even be complaining as I have a handful of classmates older than me, although a majority of the class seems to be 20-24. I used to travel a lot, most of my friends are getting married, buying homes, traveling or having children and here I am stuck in a weird transitional time of my life until at least 34 (post residency).

I'm not sure where these feelings are coming from as med school is what I dreamed of and I thought I understood the sacrifice beforehand, but now that I'm here I just wish I was still making money to put towards my retirement and being able to buy a house/have kids. I apologize as this post might seem to come across as whiny/ungrateful. I suppose I just wanted my cake and to eat it, too. Any other non-trads feeling this way for one reason or another?

 

[funfetti123]

I regret it a lot, but mostly because I think my education prior to medical school was far superior to what I'm getting now. Not a fan of my program for numerous reasons and the exorbitant cost is giving me loads of second thoughts.

 

[DO2015CA]

I regret it a lot, but mostly because I think my education prior to medical school was far superior to what I'm getting now. Not a fan of my program for numerous reasons and the exorbitant cost is giving me loads of second thoughts.

From here on out, your education is what you make of it (minus clinical years at most DO schools). It’s true for preclinical years, residency, fellowship… etc etc. you are an adult learner now. People don’t spoon feed you information.

 

[arjusmc]

From here on out, your name education is what you make of it (minus clinical years at most DO schools). It’s true for preclinical years, residency, fellowship… etc etc. you are an adult learner now. People don’t spoon feed you information.

Can you expand on why clinical years at DO schools isn't included in that?

 

[DO2015CA]

Can you expand on why clinical years at DO schools isn't included in that?

Because many of the schools are strictly preceptorships without residency programs. There is a glass ceiling of what you can learn if you are applying yourself. You can learn what you need to in order to function as an intern at most school but just the lack of infrastructure that you find in residency based rotations is what will be the drawback.

 

[arjusmc]

Because many of the schools are strictly preceptorships without residency programs. There is a glass ceiling of what you can learn if you are applying yourself. You can learn what you need to in order to function as an intern at most school but just the lack of infrastructure that you find in residency based rotations is what will be the drawback.

I'm a second year and I haven't done it yet so I don't know anything. I know my school requires 2(maybe 1, not entirely sure on the number) of your 3rd year rotations be at a residency site in addition to your auditions. Will it be enough? I don't know. I know my school has pretty good rotation sites. Not as good as the in state MD programs, but if you want the opportunity to work and learn you can in general. There are for sure DO schools out there(in this state as well) with worse options.

The other side of the coin that I've heard a lot of complaints from MD students around here that they are in a glorified shadowing situation and lose cases to interns/residents/PA students etc. I guess that's the down side of major academic centers.

 

[arjusmc]

A lot of very rural DO schools like KYCOM, LMUCOM etc you're essentially gaining nothing from OMS3-4. My friends at those schools got thrown into tiny community hospitals (that lack residents aka non-teaching hospitals). On OB/GYN rotation my buddy was sent home literally after 2 hours on most days. Now you might think "that's good, leaves a lot of time for COMATS (shelfs)" but in reality you're missing out on a lot. Another set of students had their hospital rotations shut down and doubled up with another group (there was barely any volume to go around in the first place).

Essentially, if you want anything more competitive than community IM/FM coming out of such schools then you'll have to set up your own rotations (personal connections) or do auditions.

Some "top tier" DO schools have better rotations (TCOM, MSUCOM, KCU, etc) but there's lots of variabilities and it changes from year to year. The dean at one DO school I interviewed at essentially said "we pay each preceptor $800/mo per student and your job is to stay out of the way and let them do their job"

Back in the old days even some AOA residencies were just glorified shadowing (that's why so many shutdown during the merger). IIRC prior to 2004 a DO student didn't even need to take COMLEX 1 to enter residency, and you had some failing it. Some schools like KYCOM had a pass rate of 60-65% during those years and an average MCAT that translates to a 491 now (below 497 there is a high likelihood of failing Step 1 and COMLEX 1 too)

For an MD student you sure do spend a lot of time talking down about DO schools. I wish I had that kind of free time while in medical school. As I said before, your N=1 experience at interviewing a DO school or what your "buddy" says is not very useful. Your quote from a "dean" seems suspect. Even if that was their attitude, they'd probably never say it.

Please stop spreading information that you don't know to be true. People aren't relegated to community IM/FM. They may not be as prepared as they could have been, but that doesn't indicate a ceiling.

Unless you are secretly a self hating DO or DO student you really don't understand what you're taking about. If you're secretly a residency PD then please share your thoughts.

 

[DO2015CA]

I'm a second year and I haven't done it yet so I don't know anything. I know my school requires 2(maybe 1, not entirely sure on the number) of your 3rd year rotations be at a residency site in addition to your auditions. Will it be enough? I don't know. I know my school has pretty good rotation sites. Not as good as the in state MD programs, but if you want the opportunity to work and learn you can in general. There are for sure DO schools out there(in this state as well) with worse options.

The other side of the coin that I've heard a lot of complaints from MD students around here that they are in a glorified shadowing situation and lose cases to interns/residents/PA students etc. I guess that's the down side of major academic centers.

Just make sure to do as many away rotations as you can 4th year at residency programs. You will come out fine regardless. If most of your experiences are preceptorships then there will just be a higher learning curve at the beginning of intern year. You will be fine. It’s just the major weakness of DO schools as a whole. It’s not the end of the world.

 

[MightBeACylon439]

Non-trad here. Anesthesia. Good **** man.

 

[Splenda88]

No regrets at all.

The job is not easy but you can make a ton of $$$ if you are willing to work.

 

[DO2015CA]

I regret it

Every

Single

Day

What part of the process are you currently in and what did you do before?

 

[never-too-late]

I am much older than you. This is the longest, hardest, loneliest thing I have ever done. In my 2nd year I have managed to make some friends, really good ones even. COVID restrictions last year made friend making hard.

But do I regret it: no! I wish it was not so lonely and isolating but I have never once looked back and wished I hadn’t done it.

 

[Ho0v-man]

I regret doing it. But I would have always regretted not doing it more so whatever.

 

[DO_or_Die]

Thank you guys. It's been a year since the original post and I am enjoying 2nd year a lot more! I'm really looking forward to rotations starting and keeping an open mind. 1st year just sucked all around imo.

 

[Dr Meow]

I hate it but I hate not doing it even more. This is the only path I am willing to accept.

 

[Mitch Connor]

First year was awful. 4 year old on deck and a 9 month old that wouldn't sleep and the wife works multiple jobs from home. I regretted my decision a lot first year. Almost through second year now and things are much better. I don't think I really regret it at this point, but just wish I had time for other things. I'll second the part about isolation and loneliness to a degree. I am very isolated from my class as I am very busy with the family in addition to the course load.

 

[thepoopologist]

Could be better, but could be worse.

Reading r/antiwork "i.e. I make 10/hr and caught a 50 million dollar budget gap and got a 5 dollar certificate to subway" evens things out for me.

 

[kelminak]

I'm slightly a non-trad (started at 26). My friends do IT jobs for 60-70k a year, barely work, have homes, and are just chilling enjoying life and I could have done that with them. Instead I decided to be a doofus and go to med school. I love parts of it, but there is SO MUCH BS that gets in the way of truly enjoying the process. I had a pretty hard time making friends, but lots of my other classmates didn't struggle with this. I realized that it's mostly a me issue and that my personality is very isolative and not conducive to making lots of friends. Once I realized that, I stopped being bitter and felt more grateful when I did get opportunities to be social (COVID obviously making this even worse).

The first two years are terrible, and even as an extreme introvert third and fourth year are exceptionally better. You get to hang out and talk to patients while flexing all that knowledge you learned in the first two years. You're wrong often, but you're right often too and those moments make it almost worth it.

 

[DO2015CA]

I'm slightly a non-trad (started at 26). My friends do IT jobs for 60-70k a year, barely work, have homes, and are just chilling enjoying life and I could have done that with them. Instead I decided to be a doofus and go to med school. I love parts of it, but there is SO MUCH BS that gets in the way of truly enjoying the process. I had a pretty hard time making friends, but lots of my other classmates didn't struggle with this. I realized that it's mostly a me issue and that my personality is very isolative and not conducive to making lots of friends. Once I realized that, I stopped being bitter and felt more grateful when I did get opportunities to be social (COVID obviously making this even worse).

The first two years are terrible, and even as an extreme introvert third and fourth year are exceptionally better. You get to hang out and talk to patients while flexing all that knowledge you learned in the first two years. You're wrong often, but you're right often too and those moments make it almost worth it.

I’m finishing residency and can confidentially say the first 2 years of medical school was the worst part of this process.

 

[wook]

Thank you guys. It's been a year since the original post and I am enjoying 2nd year a lot more! I'm really looking forward to rotations starting and keeping an open mind. 1st year just sucked all around imo.

Glad it's going better this year!!

Keeping an open mind is absolutely important, and doing clinicals is more along the lines of what most of us signed up for!



Wook

 

[TragicalDrFaust]

My first year sucked too. For background going in I was 28, engaged and my fiancee moved with me. I'm older because I got in trouble when I was a freshman in college and had to take a break from school. By the time I wanted to go back, I was old enough and broke enough to be determined not to go into debt for undergrad. So I worked minimum wage jobs, usually taking 12-16 credits and working a few days a week. I'm pleased to report I graduated debt free! I was lucky that I was able to live with my mom so I didn't need to pay rent.

My first year of medical school was during the pandemic and I felt pretty isolated even though I lived with my wife. I remember thinking it had been my dream to come here and instead I had no friends and was barely passing my classes. I was too numb to even feel sad. My first month before my fiancee moved out I drank enough to meeting the AUD criteria. Over the past two years I've gained 1/3 of my body weight. I suspect I'm not letting myself consciously acknowledge that I hate it here, worse than the boring small town that I worked so hard to get away from, and am taking it out on my body instead. To sum it up, medical school has severely affected my mental and physical health.

Since then I've formed some tenuous friendships. I've gotten more efficient at studying. Back then I used to study 5 hours a day, hate it and get 69.5% on my exams. Now I study for 3.5 hours a day, really enjoy it and easily get B's. It's a little better.

But mainly it's a means to an end. I'm learning to accept I won't meet people here who connect with and I don't get to have the fun, sexy social life that many of my younger, sprier classmates enjoy. I'm a social person and always had friends from jobs and school so that's been a difficult adjustment for me. I'm learning to appreciate my wife and make sure we get to spend quality time together. And I'm learning to find my own hobbies, hobbies that I felt like I couldn't afford or didn't have time for when I was grinding through UG and working.

 

[bkpremed2020]

Im in the same exact boat as you! Worked as a nurse for 5 years, started med school at 27. My friends are all getting married, buying houses, starting families etc. Sometimes I wish I could travel and enjoy my life like I did before med school, but then I just think about how unhappy I was working as a nurse before and why I decided to go to med school in the first place. Im honestly shocked at the amount of material I have learned over the last year and that to me is a priceless experience. The past year has definitely been challenging but I'm much happier now knowing that I'm working towards a lifelong dream instead of wasting time doing something that I didn't enjoy.