Poorly Dressed Med Students Rant

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In terms of first glance judgments sometime, it doesn't make you look stylish, it just makes you look gay.

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Top Gun said:
Why does fashion even matter so much??? As long as a med student or resident looks well-groomed and wears clean clothes that look professional, it shouldn't matter whether the shoes they wear are Italian, or whether they are wearing a silk tie. Clothes don't have to be right out of GQ to look professional. Not every med student can afford expensive clothes like English dress shirts or Italian pants, or whatever.
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It is correct that you don't need to be on the cover of GQ to look professional, but it is also VERY correct that if you don't look professional that it may hurt you (even if you're really really smart). For example if there are two equally well-performing students on the wards but one of them always looks like a slob (or less professional than the other student at least) then, although in some circumstances it may not be the "right" thing to do, I would argue that the slob will get worse evalutaions. There are studies out there that show that looks matter when someone is deciding whether or not they like you, and from a superior's point of view whether or not they like you is going to determine whether or not they actually listen to what you have to say and how they react if the input you give is good OR bad. So dressing like banker on Wall Street might not be necessary - especially if you look like you're trying to "outdress" your superiors and you then may look conceited, etc. - but it is necessary to dress professionaly if you want to be held in the highest possible regard. Even though you may not need to be wearing professional clothes in order to diagnose or treat patients you may need to look professional so that those patients take you seriously and comply with the treatment plan. I went to top business program for undergrad, and although this may sound lame as hell they actually emphasized on multiple occasions how what you're wearing and how you present yourself can carry a lot in your future success....
 
THe only reason I want to be a doctor is so I can wear pajamas all day.
 
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Even the most inexpensive dress clothes (Target, H&M) look very nice when they are properly coordinated, laundered and ironed. Oh, they should fit right too - nothing looks stupider than someone in a suit a size too big or small. And all shoes should always be shined, even $20 pairs. All that can be done at no cost, albeit getting up 15 minutes earlier to press a shirt. There's no excuse for depressing your coworkers and patients, and no one should ever have to wonder if you don't care about your job based on your appearance.

It really is true, though, that even down-market places like Dockers, Banana Republic and Kenneth Cole are worth investing a little more money in for your work wardrobe, even if it's just a few pieces. Everything I've bought there has lasted years, which is probably my most important clothing criteria.
 
I'm right there with you Sometime07, but then again, I am a lady and I LOVE a well-dressed man! Especially one with real designer shoes. Very nice!
 
kdburton said:
It is correct that you don't need to be on the cover of GQ to look professional, but it is also VERY correct that if you don't look professional that it may hurt you (even if you're really really smart). For example if there are two equally well-performing students on the wards but one of them always looks like a slob (or less professional than the other student at least) then, although in some circumstances it may not be the "right" thing to do, I would argue that the slob will get worse evalutaions. There are studies out there that show that looks matter when someone is deciding whether or not they like you, and from a superior's point of view whether or not they like you is going to determine whether or not they actually listen to what you have to say and how they react if the input you give is good OR bad. So dressing like banker on Wall Street might not be necessary - especially if you look like you're trying to "outdress" your superiors and you then may look conceited, etc. - but it is necessary to dress professionaly if you want to be held in the highest possible regard. Even though you may not need to be wearing professional clothes
in order to diagnose or treat patients you may need to look professional so that those patients take you seriously and comply with the treatment plan. I went to top business program for undergrad, and although this may sound lame as hell they actually emphasized on multiple occasions how what you're wearing and how you present yourself can carry a lot in your future success....
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I was not saying that looking professional is not important. In fact, in my post, I specifically stated, and let me quote here, that as long as a med student appears well-groomed and wears clean clothes that look professional, fashion does not matter so much. My argument was directed to the OP, whose idea of a professionally dressed student is someone wearing the latest designs from Prada. You certainly don't have to go to Neiman Marcus or Banana Republic to obtain clothes that look professional. You can find plenty of clothes that look professional at Macy's or JC Penney's. Anyway, as geogil pointed out, this thread is two years old, so I think I'll let this be my final word on the subject.
 
slacks ($50) + aloha print ($80) = professional in hawaii :spam:
 
Do not go out and by uber-expensive professional clothes for clerkships. It is so unnecessary. Plus, it screams "long-coat envy" and just makes you look like your trying to compensate for something. We are students trying to learn our craft. While we should definitely look/act professional, we are still students. No one expects, or even wants, super polished fashion-focused students with sparkling Italian shoes on their rotations. They want enthusiastic hard workers and team players. That's the bottom line. Work hard, and look like you work hard. And learn everything you can in the process.
 
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sometime07 said:
OK, I've held it in too long....forgive the grammar/spelling because this is going to be quick...

Gentlemen:

What the hell is it with third and fourth year med students who work their asses off to get great grades, go to a great school, shine like a star, and want to rise to the top, but don't put a moment's thought into how they look to patients/faculty? I'm not talking basic grooming (which some people do seem to have a problem with, and they probably can't help it), I'm talking about being dressed like a professional, not a tech support guy.

Example: The most common outfit I see on med students is a pair of rarely-pressed khakis, a blue Gap oxford (usually wrinkled), and a tie that they got from their father's closet before they went off to college. Oh, and that's often coupled with an oh-so-stylish pair of beat-up Timberlands or Rockports that haven't seen a shoe shine since they left the factory in Cambodia.

The average med student will graduate with something like $150k of debt. After all that tuition, living expense, books, etc, why in the world would you not spend an extra 3-5k on a stellar wardrobe? This is all it would take:

1 or 2 pairs of well-maintained (weekly shine!) Italian shoes - $150-500
5 pairs of Italian wool dress pants - $500-750
10 quality English/Italian dress shirts (some plain, some pinstripe, some windowpane)- $1000
10 snazzy - yet sedate - silk ties (no ugly prints!) - $500-1000

Using the high end estimate, you spend $3250. That's not even a drop in the bucket compared to the total debt load. And you know what? A nice sports jacket for $250-400 won't hurt either. It will give a little extra zing when you're not wearing your white coat. Buying quality will make it last for YEARS. Buying it on sale will get you even more for your money, and as long as you're careful not to get anything too trendy, it will be in style for years.

What's the defense? It costs too much? No it doesn't. That 4k you spend will reap HUGE rewards when your attending sees you as a professional, not some schlub. Don't you think your patients will appreciate that you look like the kind of person they can trust their finances with, much less their health?

You have no sense of style? OK, that could be, but pick up a copy of GQ and just fake it! You mean to tell me you can memorize Harrison's, but you can't match three items of clothing following simple rules?

But you know, in a way, I'm glad that so many people seem incapable of making themselves look like a professional. It makes me stand out more!

That's my rant.
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You would have gotten your *** kicked where I grew up. Oh, and Italian = olive oil. That is all.
 
speeter said:
You would have gotten your *** kicked where I grew up. Oh, and Italian = olive oil. That is all.
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Hey I see on your MDApps that you're a private pilot. Will you need to keep logging hours throughout med school and residency so your license doesn't expire or something? I took groundschool a while back but never sat for the FAA exam and don't remember anything haha. I'm definitely interested in getting back into it once I [hopefully] have money and free time
 
dressing professionally and even having expensive, nice, dressy clothes does not necessarily mean that you are trying too hard or have insecurities or anything at all actually. it could just mean that you have had a job (in an environment where people dress professionally).
 
Haemulon said:
Do not go out and by uber-expensive professional clothes for clerkships. It is so unnecessary. Plus, it screams "long-coat envy" and just makes you look like your trying to compensate for something. We are students trying to learn our craft. While we should definitely look/act professional, we are still students. No one expects, or even wants, super polished fashion-focused students with sparkling Italian shoes on their rotations. They want enthusiastic hard workers and team players. That's the bottom line. Work hard, and look like you work hard. And learn everything you can in the process.
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thread win
 
prettymonkey said:
dressing professionally and even having expensive, nice, dressy clothes does not necessarily mean that you are trying too hard or have insecurities or anything at all actually. it could just mean that you have had a job (in an environment where people dress professionally).
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:thumbup: You hit that nail on the head. Dressing professionally, as you would for a job, does not mean "long coat envy". It means you know what is expected of you!
 
Only sartorialists would be able to pick out extraordinarily high-end clothing and accessories that still have a more conservative touch like Kiton, Brioni, St. Andrews, or some bespoke suits or shoes. Not many people know how to spot cordovan by the lack of creasing and patina, but cordovan is the top of the ladder in shoe leather.

Unless you're talking about like Prada, Gucci, and all those ******ed trickle down fashion houses. I'd rather eat my money than buy that crap.
 
kdburton said:
Hey I see on your MDApps that you're a private pilot. Will you need to keep logging hours throughout med school and residency so your license doesn't expire or something? I took groundschool a while back but never sat for the FAA exam and don't remember anything haha. I'm definitely interested in getting back into it once I [hopefully] have money and free time
Click to expand...
The requirements to maintain currency are pretty lenient. 3 hours of flight and 3 t/o and landings within any 90 day period. And if I lose currency, I can go flying by myself for 3 hours to get it back. The only reason to keep current is if you want to take passengers; so a 3 hour brush-up makes me feel more comfortable flying friends anyway.

In terms of finishing your licensing, I would suggest setting aside 2 months and $4k for doing all of your flight time and ground school at once. Flying is a great way to relax.
 
thebeatblitz said:
Only sartorialists would be able to pick out extraordinarily high-end clothing and accessories that still have a more conservative touch like Kiton, Brioni, St. Andrews, or some bespoke suits or shoes. Not many people know how to spot cordovan by the lack of creasing and patina, but cordovan is the top of the ladder in shoe leather.

Unless you're talking about like Prada, Gucci, and all those ******ed trickle down fashion houses. I'd rather eat my money than buy that crap.
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Are we to infer from your disdain of Prada and Gucci in favor of some obscure couture house that you are just such a sartorialist? :D
 
lildave2586 said:
THe only reason I want to be a doctor is so I can wear pajamas all day.
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I realize you're joking, but still - this is a really annoying comment.

Scrubs (to which you refer) aren't pajamas, they're supposed to be a hygienic, standardized uniform for healthcare professionals. There's really no reason to wear them as pajamas. Either A) you got them and haven't worn them in a clinical setting...which begs the question why you have them at all then...but which would at least be hygienic...but no better than actual pajamas, or B) you got them and have worn them in a clinical setting...which would be pretty gross...and again no better than actual pajamas. So it's stupid to wear them as pajamas. You couldn't spend $10 on a pair just like them at Target to get something reasonable?

And even if you were totally joking about the implication that you wear them to bed, unless you're going into surgery/ER, you'll likely not be wearing scrubs all day at work. And even then, there'll probably be a big chunk of time (in the clinic, at meetings, conferences, etc.) when you'll still have to dress professionally. People need to face facts - as a doctor you'll have to dress professionally. That means dress shirts, ties, slacks, etc. If you're really so dumpy that you can't stand to wear anything but a pair of scrubs all day every day, that makes you kind of skeezy and probably means you wouldn't be comfortable in professional dress, which your patients and colleagues will expect from you. I don't really get why some people are so resistant to dress the part. It's pretty easy and comfortable and shouldn't be a shock to you that you're supposed to. Sure, it's nice to be able to wear something functional and comfortable at work (scrubs), but why you would want to blur the lines between something you wear to sleep in (and sweat in, roll around in your sheets in, crawl up your ass, put on after sex, and wake up in) and something you wear in your function as a physician is beyond me.
 
MSHell said:
:thumbup: You hit that nail on the head. Dressing professionally, as you would for a job, does not mean "long coat envy". It means you know what is expected of you!
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Agreed, but dressing professionally does not mean one has to spend a ton of money for high-end fashion. Professional, as far as I am concerned, means job-appropriate, ie clean, neat, and according to the applicable dress codes. For a student in a hospital or clinic setting, there is nothing wrong with relatively inexpensive, but nice-looking, slacks and shirt/tie combos. Heck, many of the seasoned physicians most of us see don't even spend lots of money on flashy clothes. But they still look professional. Even they have other priorites for their money ... and they actually have money. lol
 
doctors are paid to cure not to look nice .. patients need to get that concept through their skulls. Until they do, societal pressure will force an unnecessarily high dress code on doctors. I for one will wear athletic shorts .. probably nike over champion though.
 
majik1213 said:
doctors are paid to cure not to look nice .. patients need to get that concept through their skulls. Until they do, societal pressure will force an unnecessarily high dress code on doctors. I for one will wear athletic shorts .. probably nike over champion though.
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Police officers take pride in their uniform. Military take pride in their uniform. I don't know many other professions where the people wearing the uniform flat-out refuse to do so for no good reason other than...."I don't want to". It's attitudes like the one quoted above that make me wonder if the label "entitlement generation" hit the nail on the head.

You're paid to be a doctor, not a cure machine. Most of your patients you won't be able to cure of the disease. Your job constitutes more than just "curing" people. Being professional in your demeanor, appearance, actions, and judgement is absolutely part of your job, which covers a heck of a lot more that you claim. If you think your job is to sashay around diagnosing and treating without consideration of your relationship and impression on others, you're very much mistaken. It's just another example of throwing around totally unnecessary attitude, like the surgeons who feel like because they have a low mortality rate and make a lot of money and got the best training that excuses being a jerk in the OR, or curt and aloof with patients.
 
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excalibur said:
ugh...I think there's a village looking for you right now.
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HAHAHAHAH

sorry but I need to chime in, even as an undergrad.

the original post seems a bit elitist to me. Italian wool dress pants? i bought a pair once- most uncomfortable ,warm, hard to maintain piece of clothing. not to mention you have to DRYCLEAN most of those expensive clothes which will probably double the cost of the clothes in the long run.

and why does everything have to be italian??
 
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fW_QCRGvT-g[/YOUTUBE]
 
I hate it when people wear wigs to school. Wigs scare the bejeezus out of me
 
AZhopeful said:
Looks like somebody is sitting around this summer with nothing to do. Relax, man, it's just a joke and I imagine he's not tooo 'skeezy'-looking.
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I don't even remember what I posted or what it was in response to.
 
iCY said:
HAHAHAHAH

sorry but I need to chime in, even as an undergrad.

the original post seems a bit elitist to me. Italian wool dress pants? i bought a pair once- most uncomfortable ,warm, hard to maintain piece of clothing. not to mention you have to DRYCLEAN most of those expensive clothes which will probably double the cost of the clothes in the long run.

and why does everything have to be italian??
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I think that it worth noting that the Italians are world class floppers in World Cup Soccer. Nor does their army garner much respect. Even their dictators have been weak. However, the Italians gave us Italian food, Tuscany, Florence, Michangelo and Leonardo, and, apparently, Italian shoes. Oh, also Sophia Loren. And opera.
 
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My opinion:

You are in medical school. Creme De Le Creme of society are physicians, lawyers, professionals. Dress Appropriately. I am in 100% agreeance with this poster.

Get your act in gear and dress the part. you're leaders of society people look up to us, we're not a lazy academic professor who can't be bothered shaving, or a 16 year old at a high school after prom party.


Grow up, at least try to dress professionally.
 
searun said:
I think that it worth noting that the Italians are world class floppers in World Cup Soccer.
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hah, watching Holland tear Italia a new one yesterday finally released some of my pent-up anger from the 2006 world-cup... can't believe those divers one it all in Germany!!!!!

on-topic, whenever I am involved in any professional activity I try to dress the part. Leather shoes w/ matching belt, tan/navy slacks, dressy socks, dress shirt, etc. However by no means do I spend $100 a shirt or $200 for a pair of shoes... I think it's possible to look reasonably good without spending too much money.
 
surferdude123 said:
My opinion:

You are in medical school. Creme De Le Creme of society are physicians, lawyers, professionals. Dress Appropriately. I am in 100% agreeance with this poster.

Get your act in gear and dress the part. you're leaders of society people look up to us, we're not a lazy academic professor who can't be bothered shaving, or a 16 year old at a high school after prom party.


Grow up, at least try to dress professionally.
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I do not agree that the only 2 options here are to either spend thousands of dollars on high-end fashion or look like a drunken unshaved bum. The whole argument here is not whether or not one should wear job-appropriate clothes, but whether the job-appropriate clothes must consist of top of the line name-brands and fine Italian leather and such in order to be professional. The majority of physicians just don't dress like that, although you may be more likely to find it in certain parts of the country or in certain sub-specialties. It seems to me that a physicians role is to be a humble servant of society, the ill, the desparate, and the dying. With this in mind, and given the current crisis of health care cost, it seems imprudent to me to focus on flash and high-end fashion to demonstrate dedication and professionalism. Does this mean it is bad to wear expensive clothes? Of course not. But it is not expected either.

Anyway, relax everyone. Its med school. I am sure most of us will dress appropriately. There will always be a few that don't take things seriously of course, and also a few that are more aloof in their judgements. But I suspect that most of us are down to earth and reasonable.
 
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Shop at Express? Problem solved?
 
etf said:
my favorite pair of dress shoes are hand-made in wisconsin by allen edmonds. if it's good enough for u.s. presidents, it's good enough for me.
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Allen edmonds, great shoes. The one thing concerning wardrobe i was told to spend a good amount of money on was shoes. You are you feet all day and a good, well made pair of shoes can help out immensely.
 
I showed my mom the distinct syle of how Sir William Osler dressed during rounds (circa 1900 and around the time of Jack Johnson)...
You know- with the tie AROUND the collar, elegant chain from the vest, longer jacket of the day and sometimes the Derby..[He's in my avatar]

(lol) She said "Don't dress like Dracula"--I told my colleagues this and we laughed!! :laugh::laugh:



"It's like a very hard football game to me, tasting your own blood"
 
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Sylar said:
Shop at Express? Problem solved?
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Way to bump a 2 year old thread that hasn't moved in 3 months and should have died long ago. Awesome n006.:thumbup::thumbup:
 
Yesterday an attending at clinic told me to lose the white coat as it made me "Look like I was trying to prove something"

Today in clinic with a different attending "Where is your white coat, and where is your tie?"

Ahhhh.
 
I'm sorry but I don't want sputum on my Gucci or blood on my Versace.

I'll wear cheaper but still nice clothes in the hospital; I'm just not gonna bust out my Italian couture.
 
You own gucci and versace?
 
I think people would rather be comfortable in regular clothes.
 
Hernandez said:
Ties should be banned from the Hospital setting, it's a well established fact that ties are the #1 most useless item a doctor wears which spreads nosocomial infections.

At this moment, I'm in $180K debt for school alone, I'm not going to go another 5K in debt for spiffy cloths that are going to end up costing me 9K after interest.
And that doesn't even begin to talk about what a waste of money it is on those fancy cloths when they get **** on them, or blood, etc. This isn't a beauty contest.
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I couldn't agree more. I've been a patient many times in a hospital, and I could give a flying shat what my docs wore. I wanted to get better, not see a Burberry tie around his neck.

2 rotations ago, we were required IN THE ER to dress "professionally". I wanted to die, and ruined 3 Banana republic outfits. Now I have to spend extra $ to replace them. If you're in an office it's different, but nice clothes and hospitals just don't mix.
 
sometime07 said:
OK, I've held it in too long....forgive the grammar/spelling because this is going to be quick...

Gentlemen:

What the hell is it with third and fourth year med students who work their asses off to get great grades, go to a great school, shine like a star, and want to rise to the top, but don't put a moment's thought into how they look to patients/faculty? I'm not talking basic grooming (which some people do seem to have a problem with, and they probably can't help it), I'm talking about being dressed like a professional, not a tech support guy.

Example: The most common outfit I see on med students is a pair of rarely-pressed khakis, a blue Gap oxford (usually wrinkled), and a tie that they got from their father's closet before they went off to college. Oh, and that's often coupled with an oh-so-stylish pair of beat-up Timberlands or Rockports that haven't seen a shoe shine since they left the factory in Cambodia.

The average med student will graduate with something like $150k of debt. After all that tuition, living expense, books, etc, why in the world would you not spend an extra 3-5k on a stellar wardrobe? This is all it would take:

1 or 2 pairs of well-maintained (weekly shine!) Italian shoes - $150-500
5 pairs of Italian wool dress pants - $500-750
10 quality English/Italian dress shirts (some plain, some pinstripe, some windowpane)- $1000
10 snazzy - yet sedate - silk ties (no ugly prints!) - $500-1000

Using the high end estimate, you spend $3250. That's not even a drop in the bucket compared to the total debt load. And you know what? A nice sports jacket for $250-400 won't hurt either. It will give a little extra zing when you're not wearing your white coat. Buying quality will make it last for YEARS. Buying it on sale will get you even more for your money, and as long as you're careful not to get anything too trendy, it will be in style for years.

What's the defense? It costs too much? No it doesn't. That 4k you spend will reap HUGE rewards when your attending sees you as a professional, not some schlub. Don't you think your patients will appreciate that you look like the kind of person they can trust their finances with, much less their health?

You have no sense of style? OK, that could be, but pick up a copy of GQ and just fake it! You mean to tell me you can memorize Harrison's, but you can't match three items of clothing following simple rules?

But you know, in a way, I'm glad that so many people seem incapable of making themselves look like a professional. It makes me stand out more!

That's my rant.
Click to expand...

Land's End --> awesome dress shirts/ties/pants/belts/etc for an equally amazing price.

www.landsend.com
 
vasca said:
Med students in the US don't wear uniforms? :eyebrow:

In Mexico every university demands you to wear a 100% uniform (men must wear a tie almost always, the clothes are more lax for us ladies but we can't wear skimpy clothes) and a labcoat. The time when you start wearing the uniform differs (my university demands it at 1st semester, others demand it around 5th semester), but the type of clothes is the same in any university, the only thing that is different is the logo of the university on the coat. You can wear colored scarfs though.

I'm now so sick of wearing white (let's face it, the color just doesn't favor me), I avoid the color like the plague in my free time.

I do admit I *sometimes* look a bit .. informal. I'm not very good at making my hair look cool and stuff. They never gave me hairdressing lessons in school and I can't afford going to a hairdresser right now.

Interesting thing to know about US med programs indeed.
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During the preclinical years, there generally is no dress code.

During the clinical years, no "uniform", but students wear a short white coat and are expected to dress professionally. This generally consists of a shirt, tie and slacks for men. The professional equivalent for women.
 
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