Poorly Dressed Med Students Rant

[DOCTORSAIB]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and AGREE with the OP. I think most of the arguments against the OP keep pointing how wearing Prada shirts (yes, they do make them) and Italian shoes are not practical b/c you're destined to get strange bodily fluids on them. Can this happen? Sure. But being a lowly medical student, do you honestly think you're going to be "that" involved in patient care that you get crap all over you? Probably not.

Patients do appreciate a well dressed physician. Who wouldn't. Make no mistake. I'm not saying you have to be a label-***** to look nice. All you need are:

1) A nicely pressed shirt (spread collar preferred). If you want to look really nice, buy a french-cuff shirt and a set of conservative cuff-links (Thomas Pink is my favorite designer but the shirts are kind of expensive, $150+. Otherwise, you can always find nice dress shirts at reduced prices at various stores in the mall.)
2) A fancy tie (your dad's ties probably don't count. They're probably either too conservative and/or too ugly) in a full windsor knot (you can get amazing ties at reduced prices at Nordstorm, Saks, etc outlet stores). If you don't know how to tie a full windsor knot, google it and find out!
3) A pair of flat-front, boot-cut slacks (Producer pants from Express are great, BR slacks, etc). If you're still young (and fairly slender), try to stay away from pleated dress pants, PLEASE.
4) A pair of nice and simple European shoes (Aldo has some awesome shoes this season, otherwise, try outlet stores like DSW.). And socks, of course.
5) And a matching belt (keep it simple here with the buckle) are all you need.

You really don't need to spend thousands of dollars to look nice. If anything, it requires more thought than money. Hope that helps!

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[Nerdoscience]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and AGREE with the OP. I think most of the arguments against the OP keep pointing how wearing Prada shirts (yes, they do make them) and Italian shoes are not practical b/c you're destined to get strange bodily fluids on them. Can this happen? Sure. But being a lowly medical student, do you honestly think you're going to be "that" involved in patient care that you get crap all over you? Probably not.

Patients do appreciate a well dressed physician. Who wouldn't. Make no mistake. I'm not saying you have to be a label-***** to look nice. All you need are:

1) A nicely pressed shirt (spread collar preferred). If you want to look really nice, buy a french-cuff shirt and a set of conservative cuff-links (Thomas Pink is my favorite designer but the shirts are kind of expensive, $150+. Otherwise, you can always find nice dress shirts at reduced prices at various stores in the mall.)
2) A fancy tie (your dad's ties probably don't count. They're probably either too conservative and/or too ugly) in a full windsor knot (you can get amazing ties at reduced prices at Nordstorm, Saks, etc outlet stores). If you don't know how to tie a full windsor knot, google it and find out!
3) A pair of flat-front, boot-cut slacks (Producer pants from Express are great, BR slacks, etc). If you're still young (and fairly slender), try to stay away from pleated dress pants, PLEASE.
4) A pair of nice and simple European shoes (Aldo has some awesome shoes this season, otherwise, try outlet stores like DSW.). And socks, of course.
5) And a matching belt (keep it simple here with the buckle) are all you need.

You really don't need to spend thousands of dollars to look nice. If anything, it requires more thought than money. Hope that helps!

Although I actually agree that we should try to look professional, I take issue with a few of your points.

1) As a med student, I got meconium/amniotic fluid mix, blood, ketchup, betadine, pen ink, and other stuff on my clothes. I don't think it's unreasonable to expect that.

2) I don't know that french cuffs and white coats work that well together. I personally think french cuffs look dated and silly unless you're wearing a tux, or jeans.

Otherwise, I agree with the gist - it's not that hard, or expensive, to dress a little nicer, and the OP has definitely retracted a lot of his comments to the contrary, albeit slowly.

Here's my personal opinion:
1) Make a decision about whether you are going to wear a tie. They are the worst fomite possible, but this is made better by either keeping your white coat closed, or finding a non-tacky tie clip or pin. If you're going to wear a tie, for God's sake, learn how to tie the knot so it's symmetrical, and so that the tip of the tie is somewhere near your belt. Nothing worse than a way too tight crooked knot and the tie only reaching to mid-stomach.

2) Don't wear wrinkly clothes. Many shirts are "wrinkle free" nowadays, but only if you take them out of the dryer immediately and hang them up. You DON'T have to spend hours pressing your clothes if you either do that, or pay a little bit to have your shirts laundered and pressed.

3) Really, who is going to know or care if you are wearing European shoes? Your shoes should match what you're wearing, and be practical for long days on your feet. This doesn't mean you should be wearing tennies or sandals or anything, but be reasonable.

 

[anon-y-mouse]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and AGREE with the OP. I think most of the arguments against the OP keep pointing how wearing Prada shirts (yes, they do make them) and Italian shoes are not practical b/c you're destined to get strange bodily fluids on them. Can this happen? Sure. But being a lowly medical student, do you honestly think you're going to be "that" involved in patient care that you get crap all over you? Probably not.

Patients do appreciate a well dressed physician. Who wouldn't. Make no mistake. I'm not saying you have to be a label-***** to look nice. All you need are:

1) A nicely pressed shirt (spread collar preferred). If you want to look really nice, buy a french-cuff shirt and a set of conservative cuff-links (Thomas Pink is my favorite designer but the shirts are kind of expensive, $150+. Otherwise, you can always find nice dress shirts at reduced prices at various stores in the mall.)
2) A fancy tie (your dad's ties probably don't count. They're probably either too conservative and/or too ugly) in a full windsor knot (you can get amazing ties at reduced prices at Nordstorm, Saks, etc outlet stores). If you don't know how to tie a full windsor knot, google it and find out!
3) A pair of flat-front, boot-cut slacks (Producer pants from Express are great, BR slacks, etc). If you're still young (and fairly slender), try to stay away from pleated dress pants, PLEASE.
4) A pair of nice and simple European shoes (Aldo has some awesome shoes this season, otherwise, try outlet stores like DSW.). And socks, of course.
5) And a matching belt (keep it simple here with the buckle) are all you need.

You really don't need to spend thousands of dollars to look nice. If anything, it requires more thought than money. Hope that helps!

French cuffs with our white coats? Umm no. It's completely out of place and unwieldy. And a full windsor? Way too bulky, although it really depends on the collar and shirt combination... half windsor is much better for this, and if we're talking about being fashion forward, smaller knots are much more in these days.

Thomas Pink makes some nice shirts. Also, I find that fitted shirts are much better with the white coat (and in general), and Hugo Boss's shirts are done really well, the hems and collars really hold up to washing... Club Monaco does a great fascimile, but you've got to be in New York or somewhere else with a CM store.

 

[SemperJeff]

Hm.. When would you have a chance to wear that? In residency? Don't they wear scrubs all the time?

Oh and can you suggest a 3,000 wardrobe for the females?

Well in my short experience (I'm MS1), I am in my 3rd week of med school. At my school they assigned us to a team for the first two weeks. The team consisted of an attending, a fellow (depending on the department), residents, 3rd or 4th year med student, and a couple 1st year medical students.

The first years all had to dress professionally with a tie (no suit because we had short white coats). I noticed that the 4th year med student I followed would wear the same unless he had been on call. I think in two weeks of following him, he wore scrubs less than half the time.

There were two residents in the team I followed. The guy pretty much stuck with scrubs for most of the time. The girl dressed professionally if she was not on call.

And obviously the attending always had a tie on.

I think for the most part, the patient feels more comfortable when they see you dressed the part. I'm not saying buy designer clothes. But dressing professionally, in a way, reassures them.

 

[Dr Who]

When we have interactions with patients, standardized or otherwise we have to dress nice, at other times who cares? If I only have lecture that day I am more interested in dressing comfortably than impressing anyone with my clothes.

 

[BeatrixKiddo]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and AGREE with the OP. I think most of the arguments against the OP keep pointing how wearing Prada shirts (yes, they do make them) and Italian shoes are not practical b/c you're destined to get strange bodily fluids on them. Can this happen? Sure. But being a lowly medical student, do you honestly think you're going to be "that" involved in patient care that you get crap all over you? Probably not.

Patients do appreciate a well dressed physician. Who wouldn't. Make no mistake. I'm not saying you have to be a label-***** to look nice. All you need are:

1) A nicely pressed shirt (spread collar preferred). If you want to look really nice, buy a french-cuff shirt and a set of conservative cuff-links (Thomas Pink is my favorite designer but the shirts are kind of expensive, $150+. Otherwise, you can always find nice dress shirts at reduced prices at various stores in the mall.)
2) A fancy tie (your dad's ties probably don't count. They're probably either too conservative and/or too ugly) in a full windsor knot (you can get amazing ties at reduced prices at Nordstorm, Saks, etc outlet stores). If you don't know how to tie a full windsor knot, google it and find out!
3) A pair of flat-front, boot-cut slacks (Producer pants from Express are great, BR slacks, etc). If you're still young (and fairly slender), try to stay away from pleated dress pants, PLEASE.
4) A pair of nice and simple European shoes (Aldo has some awesome shoes this season, otherwise, try outlet stores like DSW.). And socks, of course.
5) And a matching belt (keep it simple here with the buckle) are all you need.

You really don't need to spend thousands of dollars to look nice. If anything, it requires more thought than money. Hope that helps!

Are you trying to seduce the patient or treat them, Doctor?!

Should the females wear ties too?

 

[jocg27]

I'm gonna go out on a limb here and AGREE with the OP. I think most of the arguments against the OP keep pointing how wearing Prada shirts (yes, they do make them) and Italian shoes are not practical b/c you're destined to get strange bodily fluids on them. Can this happen? Sure. But being a lowly medical student, do you honestly think you're going to be "that" involved in patient care that you get crap all over you? Probably not.

Patients do appreciate a well dressed physician. Who wouldn't. Make no mistake. I'm not saying you have to be a label-***** to look nice. All you need are:

1) A nicely pressed shirt (spread collar preferred). If you want to look really nice, buy a french-cuff shirt and a set of conservative cuff-links (Thomas Pink is my favorite designer but the shirts are kind of expensive, $150+. Otherwise, you can always find nice dress shirts at reduced prices at various stores in the mall.)
2) A fancy tie (your dad's ties probably don't count. They're probably either too conservative and/or too ugly) in a full windsor knot (you can get amazing ties at reduced prices at Nordstorm, Saks, etc outlet stores). If you don't know how to tie a full windsor knot, google it and find out!
3) A pair of flat-front, boot-cut slacks (Producer pants from Express are great, BR slacks, etc). If you're still young (and fairly slender), try to stay away from pleated dress pants, PLEASE.
4) A pair of nice and simple European shoes (Aldo has some awesome shoes this season, otherwise, try outlet stores like DSW.). And socks, of course.
5) And a matching belt (keep it simple here with the buckle) are all you need.

You really don't need to spend thousands of dollars to look nice. If anything, it requires more thought than money. Hope that helps!.

No, this is why you and the op are sounding ridiculous, and fairly snobby. Everyone agrees you shouldn't look like a total slob, I don't think that's the issue. I don't think a single person on here is saying it's better for a doctor to look like a bum than be well-dressed. Patients do care at least unconsciously about their doctor's appearance, and I'd agree that anyone who says that's false is wrong...

But that said, your and the op's ideas of what looking professional means are some of the most b.s. posts I've ever read.

People do care whether or not their doctor looks professional.

People DO NOT care if their doctor has French cuffs. I'd in fact argue they're out of place in professional, esp hospital, wear, and should be used in more elegant evening occasions, but that's just my opinion. People DO NOT care if their doctors shirt has a spread collar. They care that it's clean and pressed.

PEOPLE DO NOT GIVE A DAMN WHETHER OR NOT YOUR SHOES ARE FROM EUROPE.

People DO NOT care if your tie is too 'conservative.' I'm not totally sure what exactly that comment even meant, actually, as I've really never heard a tie called too conservative unless you're applying to school for graphic design or something. People DO NOT care if your tie is in a full or half windsor or, generally, 4-in-hand (I use the half).

I agree doctors should look professional, and patients notice and appreciate this. But in my opinion, the stuff you and the op are talking about doesn't have anything to do with professional. Some of the most professional acting and looking, and most respected by their patients, doctors are older ones, who take pride in their appearance and ALWAYS come to work clean, neatly groomed, well dressed, and looking like they've seen it all and are ready to take on the world. This, to me, is looking professional. And, they do it without looking like they're trying so hard to impress you with shoes that scream ITALY! and a knot in their necktie that's bigger than their head. They come to work well dressed because that's just what doctors do (or did), not because they want you to look at their French cuffs and cufflinks and think about how professional they are. That's not being a doctor, that's being a model.

As I see it, in an environment like the hospital at least (versus, I dunno, an elegant dinner or a nightclub or something), the idea of dressing well is based on leaving whoever you're working with with the feeling that you look and act professionally, but without actually drawing attention to whatever it is that makes you seem that way. It's like makeup for women, the point is to make it look like it's not there -- once its obvious that the makeup's caked on, it loses the effect, makes you look ridiculous, and hurts more than it helps.

 

[Dr Who]

Nordstrom and saks??? Give me a break!
The person who wrote this doesnt realize that many med students live off loans and are on a budget. A normal dress shirt and tie with slacks and shoes should do for any guy. I agree with surebreC, no one cares where you bought your clothes as long as you dress appropriately. I am sure the person who wrote this meant to help, but it did come out as kind of snobbish. Not everyone has the means for $150 shirts or cares for fashion advice. The last thing in my mind when I came to med school was that. I guess I am lucky in that my class is very laid back and casual. No one cares what you wear or where you bought it, as long as you show up ready for whatever is coming your way.

 

[DougFlutie]

In general, though, I am not interested in wearing the most "professional-looking" clothes on the market; I would prefer being very comfortable over how I appear, so I'll stick to my dad's ties and my worn-out, wrinkly clothes. But thanks for your opinion.

This is the most embarrassing post in this thread. No patient wants a doctor in worn-out, wrinkly clothes. There's a difference between wearing faded, unseemly clothes and wearing clean, respectable garb.

Your patients don't care that you're most comfortable in wrinkled Docker's pants from your dad's closet or a crumpled faded red oxford shirt circa 1983, they expect you to look like someone capable and professional.

You don't need expensive clothing items to look respectable. It's called busting the extra $5 a week to dry clean, or the $10 one-time investment for an iron. Grow up.

 

[Dr Who]

This is the most embarrassing post in this thread. No patient wants a doctor in worn-out, wrinkly clothes. There's a difference between wearing faded, unseemly clothes and wearing clean, respectable garb.

Your patients don't care that you're most comfortable in wrinkled Docker's pants from your dad's closet or a crumpled faded red oxford shirt circa 1983, they expect you to look like someone capable and professional.

You don't need expensive clothing items to look respectable. It's called busting the extra $5 a week to dry clean, or the $10 one-time investment for an iron. Grow up.

So its more important to you to LOOK "capable and profesional". For me, its more important to BE capable and professional. In the end your patients wont care if you buy from Saks or Target, to them its more important that you be a capable physician and know how to act professionally. I think some posters here are giving waaay too much importance on style and not the substance.

 

[Belfagor]

.....

 

[DougFlutie]

So its more important to you to LOOK "capable and profesional". For me, its more important to BE capable and professional. In the end your patients wont care if you buy from Saks or Target, to them its more important that you be a capable physician and know how to act professionally. I think some posters here are giving waaay too much importance on style and not the substance.

Is it so hard to both look AND act capable? Why does everyone think these things are mutually exclusive? I never said you can't buy from Target, but for God's sake, iron and coordinate your clothes. Look like you care, and your patients will appreciate that. Believe it or not, patients notice if you come in looking like hell- and despite how capable you are, you won't gain their trust if it looks like your slacks were at some point a hackey sack.

 

[Discobolus]

People often mistaken me for sometime07. It seems logical because sometime07 is also a medical student and he also has a penchant for Valentino suits and Oliver Peoples glasses. Sometime07 and I even go to the same barber, although I have a slightly better haircut.

Patrick Bateman

 

[beansandchips]

Har.

 

[supersash]

my stethoscope is white multicolor LV...maybe i could get the lining of my white coat to match

my stethoscope's tubing is wrapped with leather custom-designed by LV....

i certainly love my designer duds, but in the hospital, you've gotta be comfortable too. whatever makes you happy!

 

[Trajan]

I generally agree with the frustration of the OP. However, I don't think that a MS III needs to spend thousands. Agreed, wrinkled cargo khakis and frat boy shirts look incredibly unprofessional, but we need not shop in Milan.

One additional comment....Even worse than sloppy med students is the phenomenon of the sloppy attending -- usually some uber geek who went to med school in the late 60's because he was marked for being good at science at age 9 and didn't want to go to Vietnam at 22.

 

[QuikClot]

In such a residency, I agree wholeheartedly, scrubs rock. But when you're seeing patients regularly, and you aren't a surgeon, they deserve more.

You really missed your calling, st7. You should have been a butler in Edwardian England.

When I read of your ridiculous clothes fetish, and the airy way you speak of incurring thousands of dollars of high-interest debt, I cannot help but wonder why you chose to go to medical school and waste all those years spending your daddy's money as a full-time job.

 

[xylem29]

Yea, I guess I would prefer/expect doctors to look "professional". But aren't you talking about med students? If i were a patient, and I was aware that the person looking after me was a med student, I'd expect them to dress like med students and not professionals who make 100K+...actually, how does one pay for med school? I thought it was impossible to work during med school.

anyway, schmoes like the OP, you know - ppl from wealthy backgrounds, as much as they claim they do everything on their own, they work, pay for school on their own...bla bla bla will never know what it's like for those from less well off backgrounds.

 

[YouDontKnowJack]

yo yo. i found a picture of sometime07. I had to do much investigating before i hit the jackpot. Those italian shoes rock!

 

[Trajan]

I can't speak for the OP, as I know him/her no more than I know you. However, I must ask why you associate dressing professionally with being wealthy? Anecdotally, when I flip through my Mom's high school yearbook (3/4 of the students in her town had fathers who worked in the steel mills, so these were not rich kids at all), you can't help but notice how everyone dresses, well, really nicely. Not the style so much as the subtle hints, careful ironing for instance. Further, I have relatives in poor regions of southern Italy with 8th grade educations who, in their 80's, have perfect creases in their slacks every day.

The point is that over a generation Americans have drastically lowered their standards in showing respect for others and themselves in dress. No where else in the Western world equals this change. Though I generally welcome change for the good, I don't see much good in this trend.

 

[QuikClot]

What the OP -- who is certainly a troll, no question -- said was not "dress professionally." Khakis can be professional dress, scrubs certainly are. What he demanded was that medical students go thousands of dollars into debt, spending hundreds of dollars on shoes, ties, sports jacket, etc.

The idea is offensive on many levels. The causal attitude towards incurring debt certainly reflects moral decay in American society much more than any causualness of dress. Those of us born into the working class resent the idea that we should, in order to appear trustworthy, ape the dress of lesuired classes. Those of us with healthcare experience are struck by the absurdity of taking thousands of dollars in Italian craftsmanship into an enviroment lousy with vomit, piss, **** and blood. Either the OP doesn't know what he is taking about, or aspires to be the kind of doctor who never gets dirty, and neither possibility is inspiring.

 

[8744]

...Those of us born into the working class resent the idea that we should, in order to appear trustworthy, ape the dress of lesuired classes...

Very good turn of phrase. That's exactly it.

Scrubs and a clean white coat. That's as professional as you need to look.

 

[jbrice1639]

So its more important to you to LOOK "capable and profesional". For me, its more important to BE capable and professional. In the end your patients wont care if you buy from Saks or Target, to them its more important that you be a capable physician and know how to act professionally. I think some posters here are giving waaay too much importance on style and not the substance.

yeah it's most important for you to BE capable...however, there's plenty of patients out there that will never find out if your can BE capable if you don't LOOK capable because as soon as you walk into the room, they'll be put off and request another physician. BEING capable and professional involves LOOKING capable and professional. They're not mutually exclusive.

 

[jonathon]

There is no need to spend so much money to look nice. All a person needs to do is go to a near by clothing store (like J.C. Penny) and buy Khakis that are on sale that look decent. A smart consumer does not take out additional loan money to buy a whole new wardrobe. A smart consumer shops for clothes that are on sale.

I suspect that OP has seen the show on TLC called “What Not to Wear” and thinks that medical students should follow suit for what that elitist show brings with it.

As far as how most patients view a doctor, a patient would rather have a good critical thinking doctor that is able to give them the CORRECT diagnosis and be able to treat it then having the newest sweater that was shown on a New York walk way (or whatever those things are called at fashion shows).

I lived on a farm for 19 years and I strongly feel that the clothes you were does not make you a better person. However, a person does need to dress appropriately for their specific niche. This does not mean a doctor needs to spend thousands of dollars to buy the best clothes out there. I, personally, think that is not an educated decision.

What I find sad is that so many highly educated people are, sorry to say it, economically stupid.

 

[jocg27]

I can't speak for the OP, as I know him/her no more than I know you. However, I must ask why you associate dressing professionally with being wealthy? Anecdotally, when I flip through my Mom's high school yearbook (3/4 of the students in her town had fathers who worked in the steel mills, so these were not rich kids at all), you can't help but notice how everyone dresses, well, really nicely. Not the style so much as the subtle hints, careful ironing for instance. Further, I have relatives in poor regions of southern Italy with 8th grade educations who, in their 80's, have perfect creases in their slacks every day.

The point is that over a generation Americans have drastically lowered their standards in showing respect for others and themselves in dress. No where else in the Western world equals this change. Though I generally welcome change for the good, I don't see much good in this trend.

Exactly my point above...These things ARE important. But the OP wasn't talking about creases in your pants at all. That's why people are ripping on him.

 

[akademiks1989]

I agree with sometimes07. The only thing that bothers me is that you would actually put yourself more in the hole because you already spent so much on medical school.

You still need to present yourself, whether you like it or not.

I think 2 good suits, a few slacks, shoes, ties, and some shirts would work fine, and this could all be achieved in less than $700 dollars.

I am a guy, so the clothing I will talk about is men's clothing. Sorry women!

I just bought a really classy light pinstripe suit from JCPenney that was originally marked $500 that was marked down to $166, so I bought 2 of them [different styles of course!]).

Also, find some Steve Madden shoes for about ~$50, some Rockport's for about $120, and some Kenneth Coles for ~$75. I also heard Coach Footwear isn't that expensive either. If you buy those three shoes, the total comes out to $245, less than any Prada Shoes.

When looking for slacks and shirts, go to Express or TJ Maxx, because a shirt is a shirt, and slacks are slacks. To be honest, I sometimes buy cloths for the brand name even if it can't be seen, like Express. But to be perfectly honest, they truly do have the best dress cloths. A good shirt at Express is $50, but there are always bargains. Good pants start at $60 and go up to $100, but once again, find bargains. TJ Maxx has a really nice selection of dress pants. I bought an extremely classy pair from there for $15. Just don't be stupid and spend because you are already in the whole.

When buying ties, seriously, go to TJ Maxx. They always have ties on clearance (Donald Trump Brand) for less than $10 each. They are still in style, and DT line is new, so we know for sure their apparel is new.

So my point: You can look GREAT for a significant fraction of the price if you bargain hunt and search for cloths that looks the same, but are cheaper because they are a different brand. Presentation is the easiest thing you can control, and should not be overlooked. And please keep up your hygiene, like shaving everyday, brushing/flossing teeth, eating healthy with possible exercising, putting on deoderant, and so forth. TJ Maxx, Express, Journey's Footwear, Bach Rach, and JCPenney's should be your first stop for your new wardrobe.

 

[Genetics]

You don't understand inheritance do you? I say this because you can't control your appearance. You appear as you appear. All you can do to change your appearance is cosmetic work. I think you meant the easiest thing you can manage is your hygiene. People that struggle economically have to pay bills before they go out and purchase a new shirt to replace one that has developed a hole in it.

I agree with sometimes07. The only thing that bothers me is that you would actually put yourself more in the hole because you already spent so much on medical school.

You still need to present yourself, whether you like it or not.

I think 2 good suits, a few slacks, shoes, ties, and some shirts would work fine, and this could all be achieved in less than $700 dollars.

I am a guy, so the clothing I will talk about is men's clothing. Sorry women!

I just bought a really classy light pinstripe suit from JCPenney that was originally marked $500 that was marked down to $166, so I bought 2 of them [different styles of course!]).

Also, find some Steve Madden shoes for about ~$50, some Rockport's for about $120, and some Kenneth Coles for ~$75. I also heard Coach Footwear isn't that expensive either. If you buy those three shoes, the total comes out to $245, less than any Prada Shoes.

When looking for slacks and shirts, go to Express or TJ Maxx, because a shirt is a shirt, and slacks are slacks. To be honest, I sometimes buy cloths for the brand name even if it can't be seen, like Express. But to be perfectly honest, they truly do have the best dress cloths. A good shirt at Express is $50, but there are always bargains. Good pants start at $60 and go up to $100, but once again, find bargains. TJ Maxx has a really nice selection of dress pants. I bought an extremely classy pair from there for $15. Just don't be stupid and spend because you are already in the whole.

When buying ties, seriously, go to TJ Maxx. They always have ties on clearance (Donald Trump Brand) for less than $10 each. They are still in style, and DT line is new, so we know for sure their apparel is new.

So my point: You can look GREAT for a significant fraction of the price if you bargain hunt and search for cloths that looks the same, but are cheaper because they are a different brand. Presentation is the easiest thing you can control, and should not be overlooked. And please keep up your hygiene, like shaving everyday, brushing/flossing teeth, eating healthy with possible exercising, putting on deoderant, and so forth. TJ Maxx, Express, Journey's Footwear, Bach Rach, and JCPenney's should be your first stop for your new wardrobe.

 

[akpete]

I suspect that OP has seen the show on TLC called "What Not to Wear" and thinks that medical students should follow suit for what that elitist show brings with it.

Hey, I love that show!!! But just cause I watch it and try to take pointers from it doesn't mean that I go out and spend a few thousand dollars on my wardrobe. They spend what they spend on that show because they're in NYC, on a TV show which probably has a deal with some of those stores, and simply because they can.

The OP (and whoever us for that matter) often will spend that kind of money on clothes because they can. Doesn't mean that the rest of us that shop at the Gap (on sale) can't look just as good. It just takes a bit more effort.

Money is not necessarily as important as a little thought. Well, you still need some money, but not thousands. Not even hundreds.

 

[MossPoh]

It's kind of funny to me because I had a very well respected doc that I shadowed bring this up. His main saying that I remember was "Clothing might make the man, but it does not make the doctor". At the hospital the flashier docs had a tendency to be known as the ones that were not as good, while some of the best ones wore jeans, a polo and baseball hat to work. Also, while it can vary based on your practice and what not.....the majority of people you deal with in medicine are NOT going to be on the richer end of the spectrum. A patient usually feels much more relaxed and comfortable when they feel you can relate with them....wearing expensive clothing that'll just get destroyed through heavy usage is not the way to do that. Besides, there is lots of matience work that goes along with suits. In business it is valuable because it helps with your perception but in medicine it just isn't the same....and if you can avoid all the dry cleaning hassles, sizing issues, and all that while you can...might as well.

 

[MossPoh]

There is no need to spend so much money to look nice. All a person needs to do is go to a near by clothing store (like J.C. Penny) and buy Khakis that are on sale that look decent. A smart consumer does not take out additional loan money to buy a whole new wardrobe. A smart consumer shops for clothes that are on sale.

I suspect that OP has seen the show on TLC called “What Not to Wear” and thinks that medical students should follow suit for what that elitist show brings with it.

As far as how most patients view a doctor, a patient would rather have a good critical thinking doctor that is able to give them the CORRECT diagnosis and be able to treat it then having the newest sweater that was shown on a New York walk way (or whatever those things are called at fashion shows).

I lived on a farm for 19 years and I strongly feel that the clothes you were does not make you a better person. However, a person does need to dress appropriately for their specific niche. This does not mean a doctor needs to spend thousands of dollars to buy the best clothes out there. I, personally, think that is not an educated decision.

What I find sad is that so many highly educated people are, sorry to say it, economically stupid.

I can't speak for the OP, as I know him/her no more than I know you. However, I must ask why you associate dressing professionally with being wealthy? Anecdotally, when I flip through my Mom's high school yearbook (3/4 of the students in her town had fathers who worked in the steel mills, so these were not rich kids at all), you can't help but notice how everyone dresses, well, really nicely. Not the style so much as the subtle hints, careful ironing for instance. Further, I have relatives in poor regions of southern Italy with 8th grade educations who, in their 80's, have perfect creases in their slacks every day.

The point is that over a generation Americans have drastically lowered their standards in showing respect for others and themselves in dress. No where else in the Western world equals this change. Though I generally welcome change for the good, I don't see much good in this trend.

Um there are plenty of areas in the world that don't wear suits. In fact, while people think of the well dressed German business man in a nice suit the most common work place attire is actually just jeans and a tshirt there....I mean..I don't think anyone here is saying to throw on a torn tshirt and spandex shorts while wandering around the hospital....and yes people do associate dressing in suits with money and success. It is a sad fact, but it is true. If there were NO associations with how one dressed and money then all those people throughout history who dressed in such extravagant ways and looked down at others. At a time clothes were a social status indicator.

It is not that standards are lowered..it is simply that they have changed. When it comes to medicine I would choose mine based on his or her ability and affecability...not expensive italian suits.

 

[mjl1717]

OK, I've held it in too long....forgive the grammar/spelling because this is going to be quick...

Gentlemen:

What the hell is it with third and fourth year med students who work their asses off to get great grades, go to a great school, shine like a star, and want to rise to the top, but don't put a moment's thought into how they look to patients/faculty? I'm not talking basic grooming (which some people do seem to have a problem with, and they probably can't help it), I'm talking about being dressed like a professional, not a tech support guy.

Example: The most common outfit I see on med students is a pair of rarely-pressed khakis, a blue Gap oxford (usually wrinkled), and a tie that they got from their father's closet before they went off to college. Oh, and that's often coupled with an oh-so-stylish pair of beat-up Timberlands or Rockports that haven't seen a shoe shine since they left the factory in Cambodia.

The average med student will graduate with something like $150k of debt. After all that tuition, living expense, books, etc, why in the world would you not spend an extra 3-5k on a stellar wardrobe? This is all it would take:

1 or 2 pairs of well-maintained (weekly shine!) Italian shoes - $150-500
5 pairs of Italian wool dress pants - $500-750
10 quality English/Italian dress shirts (some plain, some pinstripe, some windowpane)- $1000
10 snazzy - yet sedate - silk ties (no ugly prints!) - $500-1000

Using the high end estimate, you spend $3250. That's not even a drop in the bucket compared to the total debt load. And you know what? A nice sports jacket for $250-400 won't hurt either. It will give a little extra zing when you're not wearing your white coat. Buying quality will make it last for YEARS. Buying it on sale will get you even more for your money, and as long as you're careful not to get anything too trendy, it will be in style for years.

What's the defense? It costs too much? No it doesn't. That 4k you spend will reap HUGE rewards when your attending sees you as a professional, not some schlub. Don't you think your patients will appreciate that you look like the kind of person they can trust their finances with, much less their health?

You have no sense of style? OK, that could be, but pick up a copy of GQ and just fake it! You mean to tell me you can memorize Harrison's, but you can't match three items of clothing following simple rules?

But you know, in a way, I'm glad that so many people seem incapable of making themselves look like a professional. It makes me stand out more!

That's my rant.

I agree 110 %..... "ya gotta look the part"+ patients DO notice!!

 

[akademiks1989]

You don't understand inheritance do you? I say this because you can't control your appearance. You appear as you appear. All you can do to change your appearance is cosmetic work. I think you meant the easiest thing you can manage is your hygiene. People that struggle economically have to pay bills before they go out and purchase a new shirt to replace one that has developed a hole in it.

Simply, you control what you can control. Hygiene and a good wardrobe under $700 can be achieved by anyone (I do not have $$$ like that, but as a medical student, why not invest a little for possibly a whole lot more...). If you are naturally ugly, that's not a big deal. But the big deal is when you are going into one of the best paying jobs and showing your stinginess or lack of interest in spending the money to look good. At least that is how the patients will perceive you. For a doctor to be well put together shows that they care about their appearance and desire their abilities to be judged correctly in the best way possible.

If you can afford cloths, you can afford nice ones.

 

[red dot]

3) A pair of flat-front, boot-cut slacks (Producer pants from Express are great, BR slacks, etc). If you're still young (and fairly slender), try to stay away from pleated dress pants, PLEASE.

YES!! i especially dislike the pleated khaki ones. but it seems to be the uniform for most med guys so i turn a blind eye...

 

[akademiks1989]

One more thing. If you are poor, can't you just look for scholarships, so many that you will have a surplus in your account at the end of the semester which will result in a refund check? Surely, you could purchase some new threads with this money.

 

[Dunce]

There sure are a lot of dudes on here who are all about some Express.

 

[akpete]

One more thing. If you are poor, can't you just look for scholarships, so many that you will have a surplus in your account at the end of the semester which will result in a refund check? Surely, you could purchase some new threads with this money.

Are you kidding me?! First of all, scholarships aren't exactly that easy to come by. And even though I did manage to get a $2000 need-based scholarship, and I take out the FULL budget offered by my school, I don't exactly have money to throw around. We are budgeted by the fin aid office ~$1100/month for living expenses. My rent and utilities are ~$950/month. You do the math. Yes, I do buy new clothes from time to time, but it's not like I've got a couple thousand to spend.

Any scholarships you receive is typically either given by the school or reported to the school and is subtracted from the amount you borrow. You can't get more than the school's budget unless you get an expensive credit-base, non-school certified loan.

 

[NY Musicologist]

Is this a problem? What is proper?

Well, WEARING an undergarment, for starters. After that comes making sure it's not visible (e.g., a black or brightly colored bra underneath a white blouse...I still can't figure out if the offenders of this rule are doing so consciously, out of a belief that it's somehow enticing, or if they just don't look in the mirror...)

 

[Psycho Doctor]

Well, WEARING an undergarment, for starters. After that comes making sure it's not visible (e.g., a black or brightly colored bra underneath a white blouse...I still can't figure out if the offenders of this rule are doing so consciously, out of a belief that it's somehow enticing, or if they just don't look in the mirror...)

i think they believe it is actually trampy..er..i mean sexy so they purposely wear it

 

[red dot]

i think they believe it is actually trampy..er..i mean sexy so they purposely wear it

black is not so bad. white is awful. never wear white undergarments under a white shirt or pant, unless you want everyone to see right through it.

 

[48 hours]

I pay for med school myself, even if my "daddy" CAN afford it. And I consider it a worthwhile addition to my debt load, considering it will be last me for a decade or so.

Ha Ha. Given your attitude, there is actually no doubt in my mind that your parents helped you pay for college, med school, wardrobe, car, etc. Also, what med school do you go to? I'm not so sure that poorly dressed med students is the nation-wide problem that you believe it to be... maybe it's just your school?

 

[48 hours]

Originally Posted by akademiks1989
One more thing. If you are poor, can't you just look for scholarships, so many that you will have a surplus in your account at the end of the semester which will result in a refund check? Surely, you could purchase some new threads with this money.

Wow! I feel like I must be living on another planet or something. Maybe this is sarcasm?

 

[psipsina]

Wow! I feel like I must be living on another planet or something. Maybe this is sarcasm?

seriously, most of us are buying food with what surplus money we get . . . hmmmm food or gucci, . . . i'm sure most of us pick gucci. . .

 

[deleted77919]

seriously, most of us are buying food with what surplus money we get . . . hmmmm food or gucci, . . . i'm sure most of us pick gucci. . .

Its similar to the elderly trying to chose between food and mediciations. Some will chose to go without eating and some without their meds. Maybe designer clothes are worth not eating for some, but I'd have to cut out a lot of the frozen trader joe's I've been subsisting off of ($2.50/meal = 100 meals I'd have to skip for a $250 pair of shoes . . . yikes!).

 

[siinew]

OK, I've held it in too long....forgive the grammar/spelling because this is going to be quick...

Gentlemen:

What the hell is it with third and fourth year med students who work their asses off to get great grades, go to a great school, shine like a star, and want to rise to the top, but don't put a moment's thought into how they look to patients/faculty? I'm not talking basic grooming (which some people do seem to have a problem with, and they probably can't help it), I'm talking about being dressed like a professional, not a tech support guy.

Example: The most common outfit I see on med students is a pair of rarely-pressed khakis, a blue Gap oxford (usually wrinkled), and a tie that they got from their father's closet before they went off to college. Oh, and that's often coupled with an oh-so-stylish pair of beat-up Timberlands or Rockports that haven't seen a shoe shine since they left the factory in Cambodia.

The average med student will graduate with something like $150k of debt. After all that tuition, living expense, books, etc, why in the world would you not spend an extra 3-5k on a stellar wardrobe? This is all it would take:

1 or 2 pairs of well-maintained (weekly shine!) Italian shoes - $150-500
5 pairs of Italian wool dress pants - $500-750
10 quality English/Italian dress shirts (some plain, some pinstripe, some windowpane)- $1000
10 snazzy - yet sedate - silk ties (no ugly prints!) - $500-1000

Using the high end estimate, you spend $3250. That's not even a drop in the bucket compared to the total debt load. And you know what? A nice sports jacket for $250-400 won't hurt either. It will give a little extra zing when you're not wearing your white coat. Buying quality will make it last for YEARS. Buying it on sale will get you even more for your money, and as long as you're careful not to get anything too trendy, it will be in style for years.

What's the defense? It costs too much? No it doesn't. That 4k you spend will reap HUGE rewards when your attending sees you as a professional, not some schlub. Don't you think your patients will appreciate that you look like the kind of person they can trust their finances with, much less their health?

You have no sense of style? OK, that could be, but pick up a copy of GQ and just fake it! You mean to tell me you can memorize Harrison's, but you can't match three items of clothing following simple rules?

But you know, in a way, I'm glad that so many people seem incapable of making themselves look like a professional. It makes me stand out more!

That's my rant.

You're an idiot... but you're probably trolling anyway. There is no point in arguing any of your asinine statements any more than it would bear fruit to argue with a flat-earth society member. However, I did just want to at least let you know: You're an idiot.

 

[Touchdown]

Psst, this is a resurected thead from two months ago, lets not rehash what has allready been said ;-)

 

[soeagerun2or]

OK, I've held it in too long....forgive the grammar/spelling because this is going to be quick...

I agree entirely.. This is professional school, not a technical college. If you want to wear blue jeans and carhardts you're in the wrong place.

It doesn't cost $5k to look good, one can accomplish a sufficient wardrobe for clinic/rounds on $200. Throw in a another $200 for a suit for interviews and thats $400 to not look like a slob.

 

[Jiminy Cricket]

OK, I've held it in too long....forgive the grammar/spelling because this is going to be quick...

Gentlemen:

What the hell is it with third and fourth year med students who work their asses off to get great grades, go to a great school, shine like a star, and want to rise to the top, but don't put a moment's thought into how they look to patients/faculty? I'm not talking basic grooming (which some people do seem to have a problem with, and they probably can't help it), I'm talking about being dressed like a professional, not a tech support guy.

Example: The most common outfit I see on med students is a pair of rarely-pressed khakis, a blue Gap oxford (usually wrinkled), and a tie that they got from their father's closet before they went off to college. Oh, and that's often coupled with an oh-so-stylish pair of beat-up Timberlands or Rockports that haven't seen a shoe shine since they left the factory in Cambodia.

The average med student will graduate with something like $150k of debt. After all that tuition, living expense, books, etc, why in the world would you not spend an extra 3-5k on a stellar wardrobe? This is all it would take:

1 or 2 pairs of well-maintained (weekly shine!) Italian shoes - $150-500
5 pairs of Italian wool dress pants - $500-750
10 quality English/Italian dress shirts (some plain, some pinstripe, some windowpane)- $1000
10 snazzy - yet sedate - silk ties (no ugly prints!) - $500-1000

Using the high end estimate, you spend $3250. That's not even a drop in the bucket compared to the total debt load. And you know what? A nice sports jacket for $250-400 won't hurt either. It will give a little extra zing when you're not wearing your white coat. Buying quality will make it last for YEARS. Buying it on sale will get you even more for your money, and as long as you're careful not to get anything too trendy, it will be in style for years.

What's the defense? It costs too much? No it doesn't. That 4k you spend will reap HUGE rewards when your attending sees you as a professional, not some schlub. Don't you think your patients will appreciate that you look like the kind of person they can trust their finances with, much less their health?

You have no sense of style? OK, that could be, but pick up a copy of GQ and just fake it! You mean to tell me you can memorize Harrison's, but you can't match three items of clothing following simple rules?

But you know, in a way, I'm glad that so many people seem incapable of making themselves look like a professional. It makes me stand out more!

That's my rant.

seriously....i dont know why people give the homeless used clothes...i mean, why dont we all just buy the Abercrombie?

i feel u're pain my metrosexual brotha

 

[kdburton]

Sometime are you the type of guy that wears a bow-tie and thinks it looks good?

You can buy quality shirts, pants and ties at Marshals or TJ Max for a small amount money and look stylish.

Haha I love Marshalls! I went there last week and got some black Kenneth Cole shoes, Perry Ellis slacks, and a nice Polo dress shirt for less than half of what someone would buy it at the mall down the street.

 

[MaximusD]

Although I feel that I usually dress relatively well... chalk it up to past girlfriends... I would just like to say that this is EXACTLY what I didn't go into medicine to hear. I am doing this to be a positive influence in people's lives... not to play fashion parade.

Guess what? I wear Eddie Bauer khakis, Rockports or Clarks, a polo RL shirt and a avg silk tie I am more than confident that my personality will carry me the distance. Perhaps it is a confidence thing or perhaps I don't have to make up for something

OK, I've held it in too long....forgive the grammar/spelling because this is going to be quick...

Gentlemen:

What the hell is it with third and fourth year med students who work their asses off to get great grades, go to a great school, shine like a star, and want to rise to the top, but don't put a moment's thought into how they look to patients/faculty? I'm not talking basic grooming (which some people do seem to have a problem with, and they probably can't help it), I'm talking about being dressed like a professional, not a tech support guy.

Example: The most common outfit I see on med students is a pair of rarely-pressed khakis, a blue Gap oxford (usually wrinkled), and a tie that they got from their father's closet before they went off to college. Oh, and that's often coupled with an oh-so-stylish pair of beat-up Timberlands or Rockports that haven't seen a shoe shine since they left the factory in Cambodia.

The average med student will graduate with something like $150k of debt. After all that tuition, living expense, books, etc, why in the world would you not spend an extra 3-5k on a stellar wardrobe? This is all it would take:

1 or 2 pairs of well-maintained (weekly shine!) Italian shoes - $150-500
5 pairs of Italian wool dress pants - $500-750
10 quality English/Italian dress shirts (some plain, some pinstripe, some windowpane)- $1000
10 snazzy - yet sedate - silk ties (no ugly prints!) - $500-1000

Using the high end estimate, you spend $3250. That's not even a drop in the bucket compared to the total debt load. And you know what? A nice sports jacket for $250-400 won't hurt either. It will give a little extra zing when you're not wearing your white coat. Buying quality will make it last for YEARS. Buying it on sale will get you even more for your money, and as long as you're careful not to get anything too trendy, it will be in style for years.

What's the defense? It costs too much? No it doesn't. That 4k you spend will reap HUGE rewards when your attending sees you as a professional, not some schlub. Don't you think your patients will appreciate that you look like the kind of person they can trust their finances with, much less their health?

You have no sense of style? OK, that could be, but pick up a copy of GQ and just fake it! You mean to tell me you can memorize Harrison's, but you can't match three items of clothing following simple rules?

But you know, in a way, I'm glad that so many people seem incapable of making themselves look like a professional. It makes me stand out more!

That's my rant.

 

[Top Gun]

OK, I've held it in too long....forgive the grammar/spelling because this is going to be quick...

Gentlemen:

What the hell is it with third and fourth year med students who work their asses off to get great grades, go to a great school, shine like a star, and want to rise to the top, but don't put a moment's thought into how they look to patients/faculty? I'm not talking basic grooming (which some people do seem to have a problem with, and they probably can't help it), I'm talking about being dressed like a professional, not a tech support guy.

Example: The most common outfit I see on med students is a pair of rarely-pressed khakis, a blue Gap oxford (usually wrinkled), and a tie that they got from their father's closet before they went off to college. Oh, and that's often coupled with an oh-so-stylish pair of beat-up Timberlands or Rockports that haven't seen a shoe shine since they left the factory in Cambodia.

The average med student will graduate with something like $150k of debt. After all that tuition, living expense, books, etc, why in the world would you not spend an extra 3-5k on a stellar wardrobe? This is all it would take:

1 or 2 pairs of well-maintained (weekly shine!) Italian shoes - $150-500
5 pairs of Italian wool dress pants - $500-750
10 quality English/Italian dress shirts (some plain, some pinstripe, some windowpane)- $1000
10 snazzy - yet sedate - silk ties (no ugly prints!) - $500-1000

Using the high end estimate, you spend $3250. That's not even a drop in the bucket compared to the total debt load. And you know what? A nice sports jacket for $250-400 won't hurt either. It will give a little extra zing when you're not wearing your white coat. Buying quality will make it last for YEARS. Buying it on sale will get you even more for your money, and as long as you're careful not to get anything too trendy, it will be in style for years.

What's the defense? It costs too much? No it doesn't. That 4k you spend will reap HUGE rewards when your attending sees you as a professional, not some schlub. Don't you think your patients will appreciate that you look like the kind of person they can trust their finances with, much less their health?

You have no sense of style? OK, that could be, but pick up a copy of GQ and just fake it! You mean to tell me you can memorize Harrison's, but you can't match three items of clothing following simple rules?

But you know, in a way, I'm glad that so many people seem incapable of making themselves look like a professional. It makes me stand out more!

That's my rant.

Why does fashion even matter so much??? As long as a med student or resident looks well-groomed and wears clean clothes that look professional, it shouldn't matter whether the shoes they wear are Italian, or whether they are wearing a silk tie. Clothes don't have to be right out of GQ to look professional. Not every med student can afford expensive clothes like English dress shirts or Italian pants, or whatever.