Poorly Dressed Med Students Rant

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I'm actually quite excited about the responses to this thread. I would have expected a few people to chime in and agree that the lack of professional attire (which is proven to endear patients to their doctor...see above post) is a real issue among med students. But seeing how that is not the case, and so many posters are taking this suspiciously personally, I am stoked that when interview time rolls around, I'll at least have the "patients will trust this professionally-dressed man" thing going for me. The less competition, the better!

And if you think that it doesn't matter, you're going to have quite a rude awakening. But hey, don't take my word for it.
 
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cat sniper. i like it.
 
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google image search "Cat sniper" can't miss it :)
 
bjackrian said:
Thank you...two solid pages before the ringing of the bell. :thumbup:
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What exactly is troll-ish about pointing out a blatantly obvious fact? That I expect many responses? That makes me a troll?
 
I'm not a med student yet but I'm one of those guys that just don't care about dressing up. My fiancee only gets me to wear a tie at banquets. The great thing about the diversity in medicine is that every physician comes in with their own style and their own outlook on life. While you may look GQ, another physician with clothes from Target may come off their patients as meek and humble, but knowledgeable. Not to say that GQ clothes make you the opposite. In the end, I think that dressing the part matters less in the hospital setting where most people are wearing scrubs and more in private practice. I know that I will always be that doctor that is in scrubs because I HATE dressing up. Also, remember that alot of premeds are nerds, so you can't automatically expect them to be knowledgable about dress. Heck, my mom designs clothes and I'm still a hopeless case.
 
sometime07 said:
What exactly is troll-ish about pointing out a blatantly obvious fact? That I expect many responses? That makes me a troll?
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You'll forgive my suspicions when your posts to date consist of:
1) A thread in which you say "hi."
2) A thread with a rather lurid story of your tryst with a beautiful attending a la Grey's Anatomy.
3) A comment in which you brag about the wealth of your family.
and 4) this thread.
 
bjackrian said:
You'll forgive my suspicions when your posts to date consist of:
1) A thread in which you say "hi."
2) A thread with a rather lurid story of your tryst with a beautiful attending a la Grey's Anatomy.
3) A comment in which you brag about the wealth of your family.
and 4) this thread.
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1) Nearly every post in that thread is "hi". You need to post there to post anywhere else.
2) The issue of whether that thread is true or not has been hashed over plenty there. So make of it what you will.
3) I haven't seen a dime of that money since I was 18. If I wanted to get at it, I would have to go work for it and leave med school, which I have no interest in doing. Hardly a brag.
4) This thread, which is merely an observation which no one has yet disagreed with. Go ahead and disagree with my point that many med students are not well-dressed. Just because it's a touchy subject doesn't make it trolling.
 
sometime07 said:
I'm actually quite excited about the responses to this thread. I would have expected a few people to chime in and agree that the lack of professional attire (which is proven to endear patients to their doctor...see above post) is a real issue among med students. But seeing how that is not the case, and so many posters are taking this suspiciously personally, I am stoked that when interview time rolls around, I'll at least have the "patients will trust this professionally-dressed man" thing going for me. The less competition, the better!

And if you think that it doesn't matter, you're going to have quite a rude awakening. But hey, don't take my word for it.
Click to expand...

Yikes! <gets up from the table and leaves the room>
 
I'm sure this is going to completely disgust the OP...but I even get a good portion of my clothes from Plato's Closet (a teen kind of thrift store, but you can find some professional clothes mixed in)...stuff from places like Express, Banana Republic, Gap, etc that some teenager bought and quickly decided she didn't want, so it's still basically new. And I feel like I look professional, though not in the Prada or whatever high-end category you probably are...but I don't exactly want to be...and I like (and need) to save money.

My main problem is kind of a different issue...it's so incredibly cold in the hospitals (to me, at least) that often I've given in and layered sweaters over my more professional clothes...plus a pair of wool socks over my regular socks. Even the white coat doesn't hold in the heat very well...if I could get away with wearing gloves, I would! So I guess I need to figure something more "professional" out for that...
 
closertofine said:
I'm sure this is going to completely disgust the OP...but I even get a good portion of my clothes from Plato's Closet (a teen kind of thrift store, but you can find some professional clothes mixed in)...stuff from places like Express, Banana Republic, Gap, etc that some teenager bought and quickly decided she didn't want, so it's still basically new. And I feel like I look professional, though not in the Prada or whatever high-end category you probably are...but I don't exactly want to be...and I like (and need) to save money.

My main problem is kind of a different issue...it's so incredibly cold in the hospitals (to me, at least) that often I've given in and layered sweaters over my more professional clothes...plus a pair of wool socks over my regular socks. Even the white coat doesn't hold in the heat very well...if I could get away with wearing gloves, I would! So I guess I need to figure something out for that...
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Try a V-neck sweater over your shirt and tie. Looks very professional and snazzy. Plain black will give you the most utility, with navy a close second. Oh, and a heavier pair of wool slacks will help. Don't worry about the cold hands, it will become very handy for testing temperature perception when performing a neurological exam! :)

And no, I'm not "completely disgusted"...you're making an effort, which is far more than most here even want to do. They think that being a physical manifestation of knowledge is the best way to be a physician. Gee, I wonder what patients think of that?
 
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I would argue that med. students do know how to dress when the time comes. After all, they did get into med. school by wearing a suit to an interview. Furthermore, unless you have a specific attire that is required by the department you're rotating in, then the student should wear what works for them. People are always saying don't judge a book by it's cover and yet people are still expected to dress up to make a good "impression."
 
I agree that many medical students (and house staff) are not dressed as well as they could be, including myself in shoes that should probably be polished more often.
One thing to consider is that all of this is relative. For me, buying a few pairs of dress pants and shirts at Target was a huge effort (I HATE shopping). I would rather study all day than go to the mall for 2 hours. I know I would look better if I put in more effort, but I just don't want to. My appearance is one area where I am willing to slide by on minimal effort. You can shine there if you want to; I'd rather shine somewhere else.
 
I would never where expensive clothes in a hospital or clinic when snot, blood, and **** can be blown all over me without a moments notice.
Besides, Italian shoes are for posers.
 
SanDiegoSOD said:
Besides, Italian shoes are for posers.
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good call. . . i agree. plus, you don't want to dress better than your attending, because then you make them look bad
 
sometime07 said:
I am stoked that when interview time rolls around, I'll at least have the "patients will trust this professionally-dressed man" thing going for me. The less competition, the better!

And if you think that it doesn't matter, you're going to have quite a rude awakening. But hey, don't take my word for it.
Click to expand...


Yeah I totally agree with the OP. I think dressing well actually trumped board scores and clinical grades in the latest research on "factors that help you get a residency" by AAMC!

So for anyone who might not have done as well as they wanted on step 1...DON'T WORRY! Dressing snazzy totally equals about a 240 and will substitute for the boards when it comes to getting that plastic surgery residency.
 
SanDiegoSOD said:
I would never where expensive clothes in a hospital or clinic when snot, blood, and **** can be blown all over me without a moments notice.
Besides, Italian shoes are for posers.
Click to expand...

Ditto.

That said, sometime07 does have a point. Although I have NEVER seen someone so adamant about it! :confused:
At one of the hospital's our clinical students go to they get free meals in the Physician's lounge, which is freakin' nice, plasma screen TV's, leather lounge chairs and a sweet spread of good food. However, recently medical students may be banned from it because physicians have been complaining about how the 3rd and 4th years have been dressed while being in there. (to my knowledge, Jeans and polo shirts) So here, they do notice.

I like to look professional as the next med student, but JCPenny is a hell of lot cheaper than banana republic. Plus if you stay fit and toned, that can get you just as much attention. ;)
 
sometime07 said:
I'm actually quite excited about the responses to this thread. I would have expected a few people to chime in and agree that the lack of professional attire (which is proven to endear patients to their doctor...see above post) is a real issue among med students. But seeing how that is not the case, and so many posters are taking this suspiciously personally, I am stoked that when interview time rolls around, I'll at least have the "patients will trust this professionally-dressed man" thing going for me. The less competition, the better!

And if you think that it doesn't matter, you're going to have quite a rude awakening. But hey, don't take my word for it.
Click to expand...


That's OK, you can have the No. 1 position in the match. Apparently there are many more that value comfort and convenience over a superficial "Muffy and Blaine at the yacht club" look. So, go ahead and match over all the rest, they'll just have to "settle" for the remaining hundreds of spots.

I have no problem with looking as professional as possible, but your OP failed to acknowledge the budgetary constraints most medical students are under.
A person can look reasonably professional without wearing all that you suggest. Even well laundered and pressed dockers go a long way.

I don't know where you have been exposed to physicians before medical school, but most MD's I have seen and known from my previous "life" didn't dress in wool pants, silk ties, italian shoes, etc. as you suggest -- at least not for daily wear.

Seems like YOU place more value in looking professional than acting/being professional.
 
why single out the guys. the women are the worst offenders by far. i've seen some wear some piece of crap rag that exposes their belly button, paired with bright colored pants and high heels. some just wear some long skirt they probably took from the gypsy garbage dump. or those huge earrings. or the sparkles over their eyelids. most women just wear a simple tight fitting shirt, which i guess is better than a t-shirt but nothing like a full button down shirt and tie like guys have to wear.
 
footcramp said:
why single out the guys. the women are the worst offenders by far. i've seen some wear some piece of crap rag that exposes their belly button, paired with bright colored pants and high heels. some just wear some long skirt they probably took from the gypsy garbage dump. or those huge earrings. or the sparkles over their eyelids. most women just wear a simple tight fitting shirt, which i guess is better than a t-shirt but nothing like a full button down shirt and tie like guys have to wear.
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Yeah, but what are they supposed to do? You're right about some of the extreme violations, but I feel like the dress pants with fancy t-shirtish top is about the most appropriate thing they can wear. I think it's funny that this is a situation where we men have to dress up better.

Also, clogs work okay-ish for them while they look pretty silly on guys. (Hey, I might try them later on if my feet are killing me, but you gotta admit that they look funny.)
 
tulane06 said:
I'm gonna ring the troll bell on this one.
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Seriously! Next he's gonna tell us that he wears these exorbitant outfits on his obstetrics rotation. Does "contents under pressure" mean anything to you? :laugh:
 
I dunno, I gotta agree with the OP on this one. I try to look my best on all my rotations, and I'm also pretty surprised at the lack of attention people pay to their dress. I've never seen an attending, department head, or other major person in medicine dressed in khakis and worn out Timberlands.

As far as it reflecting on your skills, I'm sure you can be an extremely capable physician and still dress like a slob. But, I've spoken to lots of people who are involved in choosing residents/students, and every one of them said that appearance is crucial to landing a good spot. OK, they aren't going to overlook terrible evaluations or board scores because you're dressed so well, but when it comes down to two equally qualified applicants, they WILL choose the more professional appearing one (all other things being equal). Patients simply prefer it.
 
sometime07 said:
Try a V-neck sweater over your shirt and tie. Looks very professional and snazzy. Plain black will give you the most utility, with navy a close second. Oh, and a heavier pair of wool slacks will help. Don't worry about the cold hands, it will become very handy for testing temperature perception when performing a neurological exam! :)

And no, I'm not "completely disgusted"...you're making an effort, which is far more than most here even want to do. They think that being a physical manifestation of knowledge is the best way to be a physician. Gee, I wonder what patients think of that?
Click to expand...

Thanks...yeah, a black V-neck sweater has been my fallback sometimes (though I'm a girl, so no tie)...but when I'm wearing black pants already, I feel like it might make me look a little scary covered up all in black! :laugh: I haven't been able to find one quite warm enough, though, so I sometimes break out my heavy wool winter stuff that is less professional...oops...
 
I work with a physician who told me he buys his shoes at Wal-Mart and only replaces them when they have holes. He never wears Italian pants or shoes or clothes. He wears khakis and a sport coat and tie. And he is the most well-respected damn doctor I've ever met.
 
closertofine said:
Thanks...yeah, a black V-neck sweater has been my fallback sometimes (though I'm a girl, so no tie)...but when I'm wearing black pants already, I feel like it might make me look a little scary covered up all in black! :laugh: I haven't been able to find one quite warm enough, though, so I sometimes break out my heavy wool winter stuff that is less professional...oops...
Click to expand...
Grey is good. And if it's wool, it's surprising warm even if it's thin.
 
sometime07 said:
1 or 2 pairs of well-maintained (weekly shine!) Italian shoes - $150-500
5 pairs of Italian wool dress pants - $500-750
10 quality English/Italian dress shirts (some plain, some pinstripe, some windowpane)- $1000
10 snazzy - yet sedate - silk ties (no ugly prints!) - $500-1000
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wow...not sure i can take fashion advice from someone who uses the word "snazzy"

thanks for playing though, better luck next time :laugh:
 
excalibur said:
ugh...I think there's a village looking for you right now.
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I didn't get this, so I'll assume it's gibberish brought on by the over-pricedness of your scrubs leaking out and into your skin, causing some sort of psychosis.
 
I concur. Medical students are a fashion challenged group, and should stop wearing that ugly crap. I've always wanted a white coat with silk nova check inner liner. I suppose I'll custom order one when I'm done with all this training.
 
It's hard to disagree that looking like a slob is bad, but it's hard to believe that the message of the OP is that simple. Nobody will disagree with that basic tenet, even the ones who freely acknowledge that while it is undesirable to look like crap, they continue to do so for "comfort" or because "they don't care". Any monkey would expect those two responses to the rant, so I have to draw a further conclusion and say that the OP is trying to say that mere avoidance of unkemptness is not enough when it comes to the male wardrobe. Rather, one must attempt to achieve the runway look, preferably through designer duds paid for with money that you don't have, but if not, thriftier knock-offs will send the same message if carefully chosen.

The above point is the one that I wish to disagree with.

Looking like a million bucks, in an effort to achieve aforementioned elevated opinion on clinical rotations, is not going to win friends in all locations, especially in areas like the rural locations that I rotated in for most of third year. If you are perceived as that student/doctor who "thinks he's better than everyone else" from the first second that people lay eyes on you, you'll have a long road ahead of you. I would not try to look too much better than everyone in the hospital, and I especially wouldn't try to outshine everyone within a 100 mile radius! The patients will NOT be impressed, and neither will your attendings. Instead, you'll just be that tool with the fancy shoes.
 
The OP did state that it wasn't necessary to spend thousands of dollars...eventually. I think his main point was that dressing like a professional will help make you a professional. I agree that students need to dress professionally in the hospital, but, of course, I don't think we need to be spending a lot of money to do so.

It really does make a difference to your coworkers and patients when you look like you slept in your clothes. Yes, it will make patients question your knowledge and skills. Can dressing nicely make up for lack of skills, no, but everyone has knowledge and skills so it becomes vital to improve how you look in others eyes just that much more. Why not behave and dress like a doctor while in medical school? It will help create a positive image about you and will help you land a nice residency position. Buy an iron and iron your 10 dollar khakis or at least take them out of the dryer while they're still warm so they aren't a wrinkled mess. It isn't that hard.
 
Doc Oc said:
Looking like a million bucks, in an effort to achieve aforementioned elevated opinion on clinical rotations, is not going to win friends in all locations, especially in areas like the rural locations that I rotated in for most of third year. If you are perceived as that student/doctor who "thinks he's better than everyone else" from the first second that people lay eyes on you, you'll have a long road ahead of you. I would not try to look too much better than everyone in the hospital, and I especially wouldn't try to outshine everyone within a 100 mile radius! The patients will NOT be impressed, and neither will your attendings. Instead, you'll just be that tool with the fancy shoes.
Click to expand...
Maybe he lives somewhere where people routinely sport Italian leather. That's not the case where I am or where I went to med school, but I hear the east coast is more formal.
 
hoberto said:
Buy an iron and iron your 10 dollar khakis or at least take them out of the dryer while they're still warm so they aren't a wrinkled mess. It isn't that hard.
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Downy Wrinkle Releaser :thumbup: my new friend
 
Doc Oc said:
Looking like a million bucks, in an effort to achieve aforementioned elevated opinion on clinical rotations, is not going to win friends in all locations, especially in areas like the rural locations that I rotated in for most of third year. If you are perceived as that student/doctor who "thinks he's better than everyone else" from the first second that people lay eyes on you, you'll have a long road ahead of you. I would not try to look too much better than everyone in the hospital, and I especially wouldn't try to outshine everyone within a 100 mile radius! The patients will NOT be impressed, and neither will your attendings. Instead, you'll just be that tool with the fancy shoes.
Click to expand...

Well obviously you have to take your location into consideration...I never suggested you outshine your superiors, either. Just your peers! If my attending is a schlub, chances are he/she wouldn't notice fine clothes anyway. But if he/she does make an effort, I obviously wouldn't want to shine brighter than them. And yes, if you go to a rural school where everyone is more casual, you don't want to stand out.
 
I'd love to hear your definition of a rural school.
 
Now I have to say that I agree with the gist of this thread, but totally think that the all-Italian dress wardrobe is WAY overboard for pretty much anybody.

Having said that, I do find it odd that people wear very very casual clothes when they are on call or on the weekend.

I have seen an attending wear jeans and a nice teeshirt, and a resident wear a sweatshirt with teddy bears on them and scrub pants. I thought that was really weird, given how nicely they dressed on other days.
 
Hernandez said:
Ties should be banned from the Hospital setting, it's a well established fact that ties are the #1 most useless item a doctor wears which spreads nosocomial infections.

At this moment, I'm in $180K debt for school alone, I'm not going to go another 5K in debt for spiffy cloths that are going to end up costing me 9K after interest.
And that doesn't even begin to talk about what a waste of money it is on those fancy cloths when they get **** on them, or blood, etc. This isn't a beauty contest.
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GREAT post. This is so true. Studies have been done on doctor's ties.

Get over yourself OP. You don't have to wear italian bull**** and shine your shoes weekly to look nice and be a good professional. I wear stuff from Kenneth Cole Reaction, express shirts, and clearance rack ties. I look great. Each outfit costs less than 100 dollars. You sound like a clothes snob to me. Trust me... I've worked in a very respected hospital for 2 years. You'd stand out like a sore thumb there, and everyone would talk **** about you behind your back for wearing such pretentious clothing. THAT's the real world.
 
Crab people
Crab people
Crab people
CRAB PEOPLE
 
That is hilarious... :) I should be studying.
 
You have way too much time on your hands considering how much you are posting on here. Get a life, go study, stop getting drunk, and focus on passing your exams and residency interviews. Forget what you or "other patients" think. Get over it. Clearly, you look good and are that much more in debt for it. Congrats. So you won't have a problem attracting patients. Rejoice in the knowledge that you'll get all of the badly dressed doctors' business and be richer for it. Get a hobby...
 
closertofine said:
Thanks...yeah, a black V-neck sweater has been my fallback sometimes (though I'm a girl, so no tie)...but when I'm wearing black pants already, I feel like it might make me look a little scary covered up all in black! :laugh: I haven't been able to find one quite warm enough, though, so I sometimes break out my heavy wool winter stuff that is less professional...oops...
Click to expand...

try merino wool or cashmere, they are thin so they look dressy and not chunky but are super warm. expensive, but super warm. try to shop sales, consignment and places like filenes basement and it shouldn't break the bank.
 
Pinkertinkle said:
lg.rey.robert.040306.jpg

Dr. Rey says you dress like crap.
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There should be an award for best post of the year!!
 
Ross and Nordstrom rack tend to have great deals for ties, shirts, etc.

In general, though, I am not interested in wearing the most "professional-looking" clothes on the market; I would prefer being very comfortable over how I appear, so I'll stick to my dad's ties and my worn-out, wrinkly clothes. But thanks for your opinion.
 
Ever stop to think that all these attendings you are trying to impress were at one point also getting yelled at for wearing wrinkled dockers and polo shirts? I guess they're sending attendings to fashion school these days :rolleyes:

p.s. If I saw a doctor wearing a shirt and tie with a black v-neck sweater I would seriously question his sexuality. The recently-shined prada shoes would then be a dead giveaway.
 
Hey guys, reading all this made me think what if president Bush wore pajamas to give his speech on the war in Iraq? Now that would be funny. :p
 
footcramp said:
why single out the guys. the women are the worst offenders by far. i've seen some wear some piece of crap rag that exposes their belly button, paired with bright colored pants and high heels. some just wear some long skirt they probably took from the gypsy garbage dump. or those huge earrings. or the sparkles over their eyelids. most women just wear a simple tight fitting shirt, which i guess is better than a t-shirt but nothing like a full button down shirt and tie like guys have to wear.
Click to expand...

I'm a female and I have such a hard time figuring out what to wear when i have to look professional every day. I HATE DRESSING UP. women's dress clothing is so uncomfortable. men can get a pair of dress shoes and put a comfy insert in them and wear them every day. Women's dress shoes are the most uncomfortable, hideous things and are definitely never meant to stand in them for 12 hours a day. And guys can just wear the same thing every day - so simple. There is no standardization in women's professional wear. I want rules dammitt!!!!

I hate wearing skirts b/c I don't like my legs, so that's out. I end up wearing dress pants when I absolutely have to dress up. But they're certainly not the loose comfy things guys get to wear. If women dress like guys, we end up looking frumpy, if we dress like women, we end up uncomfortable.

Any ladies have suggestions for what to wear in clinic?
 
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