Nurse- worth it?

[foreverLaur]

yeah, i've taken physiological psych and behavioral neuro, and i'm taking seminar in neuroscience right now, so i agree that the subject matter is amazing, especially with current issues on ADHD, autism, drug treatments for those diseases, etc. I'd say you just need to think about what you ultimately want to do as a career, and focus on that. Don't do a PhD as a backup plan, b/c that's a really long, time consuming, expensive backup, especially if you want to become a PA ultimately. Also, since you say you've already been accepted to an accelerated BSN, NP might be a better option, unless you already took the pre-reqs, or if there's an area of medicine that you want to work in that NPs usually don't. Healthcare is a great field, and there are many areas to work in it, but find the area that you love the most, and can see yourself having a fulfilling career in. I'm interested in business, healthcare, psychology, pharmacology research, etc., etc., but ultimately I'm focused on medicine and going to medical school. Other career options are interesting, such as CRNA and PA, to me, but for me, medicine would satisfy my needs the most. that's my advice to you and the OP.

I have taken most of the prerequisites. I think for most the schools I am looking at I need to take one more course, which I'll take while working as an RN. I have decided I want to go PA because I like the medical model, I like the OR, and I like the ER. I spent a lot of time reading about the differences in the profession, shadowing each, and asking a lot of questions and I have decided that PA fits my needs much more. Plus, I like the ability to switch professions without more schooling. I went to see a PA derm who previously worked in the ER for 10 years but switched to derm because she wanted a more family friendly job. It is really nice to be able to do that.

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[Farmer Jane]

foreverLaur, I'm just wondering, what is your work and educational experience?

 

[foreverLaur]

foreverLaur, I'm just wondering, what is your work and educational experience?

I am an LPN and I am in my fourth year of college. I work at Children's Hospital part-time on the pulmonary/gen med floor.

 

[Farmer Jane]

I am an LPN and I am in my fourth year of college. I work at Children's Hospital part-time on the pulmonary/gen med floor.

Good for you! What's your major? You previously mentioned finance classes.

 

[foreverLaur]

Good for you! What's your major? You previously mentioned finance classes.

I went into college trying to "avoid" health care because of the way it had been going. The doctors my mom works for hinted at advising me not to go into medicine (MD/DO). I knew business was a great field and I did very well in my into to business classes. It all went downhill when I worked for Ernst & Young. Loved the company, loved the people, hated the job. It was at that point I realized that health care was what I loved and I would not be happy in any other field.

I did a lot of research/investigating/interviewing/questioning/shadowing of doctors, nurse practitioners, nurse anesetists, and physician assistants. I believe that PA is the route that best fits my long term goals, desires, and plans.

However, I like some aspects of the other professions yet and I'm not entirely ready to make up my mind. I plan to graduate in 09 with a BS in Psychology and then do a 1 year accelerated BSN program (at this point, I think it is better/faster route than the LPN-BSN programs).

That way, I have all my "bases covered" essentially. I can get my MSN and go a ton of routes that way, I may love working as an RN and stick there, or I have the degree and experience to go PA. Being previously pre-med, I have taken almost all the courses needed to get into PA school and the requirements vary greatly. Some I have seen require typically pre-med classes while some don't even require orgo. But I have a year of chem, a year of physics, a year of bio, and a semester of microbio so I may need to take a class or two here, but that won't be an issue. I'll just do it in the evenings while I am working. The CC by my parents house offers orgo online with a 1 day a week lab either on Thursday evenings or Saturday afternoons.

Just leavin my options open for now, while I can.

 

[fab4fan]

I am sorry, but I call BS on this whole thing. Unless you have a clone, there is no way that at your age you have done all you say you have done. It's fascinating that with all of the discussions regarding nursing, you didn't directly mention being an LPN until just now. So now you do have experience after all?

Nope. I didn't believe what you were saying a while ago, but when you posted about being an LPN, that cinched it. The experience working for "Ernst and Young"...come on. I'm not trying to make fun of you, but you've got way too many stories going here. It's like watching a juggler who has too many balls in the air.

Please don't try to convince me you were also at Woodstock. (The "real" one.)

 

[Farmer Jane]

I'm intrigued. How old are you if I may ask? How did you fit in LPN school while attending college for business? And how long were you pre-med? I'm a bit perplexed that during conversations of how nurses interact with one another you never mentioned being an LPN.

 

[foreverLaur]

1. You are more than welcomed to call E&Y in Philadelphia, PA and ask to talk to Jennifer Sell. She will confirm that I did indeed work for E&Y there for a summer (2007).

2. My high school had a lot of technical programs. One of them was that you could become an LPN during your junior and senior years of high school instead of attending regular high school. When I graduated high school with my high school diploma I had also become an LPN. I then decided to go to college because I wanted a college degree.

I took accounting/finance coursework for 1.5 years and then switched to premed for 1 year. I'm currently taking my first psych class right now. Luckily, my gen ed stuff is done so I can still graduate on time. I'm looking forward to the 2nd degree BSN program and working for the Cleveland Clinic (they are paying for it in exchange).

I'm 21 and a senior in college.

 

[foreverLaur]

just because i'm trying to find an lpn program doesn't mean i'm trying to find one for me, for starts.

secondly, yes i have changed my major around. i've bounced around a lot of ideas and gone back and forth many times. i don't have a precise date when i decided to change majors. there was a time when i was still listed as an accounting major and was taking microbiology classes. there was a time when i was taking biology classes but still listed as a microbio major. i'm still not 100% sure i'm not going to go to medical school.

by the way, i still do work at children's hospital, both paid and unpaid. i am still a waitress at bob evans two nights a week.

i worked as an undergrad business advisor while i attended a different school (i transfered)

i was a gymnast from the time i was 5 until i graduated high school. i tore my rotator cuff in 2003 and i still haven't had it fixed, although plan to in summer of 2008 or 2009.

i haven't started a nursing program yet. i've been accepted, but haven't graduated with my first degree yet.

i worked for OSU's admissions office at our med school. however, i only made $7/hr and i quit to be a waitress because i consistently make double that per hour with tips.

on saturday afternoons i teach a microsoft excel class to adults at a non-profit center who is on conjunction with united way.

i am currently a senior in college and i am a psych major, then planning to get my BSN at the program i am accepted to. then i want to work for a few years, pay off my loans, make some money. then, hopefully, i'll become a PA program.

 

[fab4fan]

You really need to just stop. I don't mean you need to stop posting. I mean you need to stop confabulating. Several people have quite easily seen you trip yourself up. It's sad and disturbing. I don't know what's motivating you to do it.

Before you go into a career helping others, you need to get your head straight. Or get your stories straight. Preferably the former. There are a lot of people here and elsewhere who would be glad to help you if you really want to pursue a career in the health care field. But if you're just here to troll or jerk people around, that's a different ballgame.

I look at those links Tired posted, and I don't know whether to laugh, cry or be seriously scared.

 

[fab4fan]

The high school/LPN thing? If I remember correctly, that stopped being an option sometime in the 70s in my state. Maybe Ohio is different. Although, I took a gander at multiple LPN programs in OH, and all of them required applicants to be a high-school graduate/have a GED. Maybe I missed the program you attended, although when I tried to find high-school LPN programs I came up with bupkis.

I actually do know a couple nurses from OH. I'll have to ask them if this is an option.

 

[Farmer Jane]

Hmmm... In many hospitals you can earn your certificate as a nursing assistant during high school. Most hospitals don't even hire LPNs anymore, but I suppose somewhere, some do. If one is really an LPN, they make far more per hour than a diner waitress. It would be insane to not just pick up extra hours. My stepsister was an LPN while earning her BSN out in Colorado, made $17/hour. How many waitresses make that?

CNAs, however, frequently work at hospitals, and don't make much money. It would make much more sense for someone to have become a CNA during high school, work part time at a hospital, and also work as a waitress for tips.

Tired is right. You're prone to exaggeration. You're young yet--you have time to stop.

Fab4 is also right--I haven't been here very long but I can tell you there are a ton of intelligent, experienced, helpful people here. They'd likely be happy to help and guide you if you would just be honest and humble.

 

[Farmer Jane]

secondly, yes i have changed my major around. i've bounced around a lot of ideas and gone back and forth many times.

Still changing your major during your senior year of college? Please.

i worked for OSU's admissions office at our med school. however, i only made $7/hr and i quit to be a waitress because i consistently make double that per hour with tips.

LPNs make at least $14 per hour. Why would anyone take a $7/hr job when they could consistently make much more? That makes no sense.

then, hopefully, i'll become a PA

If you were really an LPN at a Children's hospital, that would be your experience required for a PA program. If you were really a micro major for three years, and pre-med for two years, you would have the science courses required for PA school. If you're telling the truth, you already qualify for PA school so why not do that directly?

 

[Taurus]

You guys spend way too much time obsessed with her. I wish I had that much free time.

 

[Taurus]

I'm getting involved politically too. I prefer action.

You can bet that I would never have allowed what happened to anesthesiology or CT surgery if I were in charge. Not everyone can see that far, right Tired?

 

[zenman]

On 1/10/08 she was a waitress, volunteered at the Children's hospital, and did research under Healthy Heart.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=6066580#post6066580

On 1/8/08 she spent two years as an accounting major.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=6056360#post6056360

On 1/2/08 she worked as an undergraduate business advisor.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=6031212#post6031212

On 1/1/08 she got her LPN while in high school.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=6028908#post6028908

On 12/28/07 she was a microbiology major for three years.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=6017992#post6017992

On 12/20/07 she said she had not started in a nursing program yet.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=5990488#post5990488

On 12/17/07 she was a college gymnast who tore her rotator cuff.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=5975493#post5975493

On 12/06/07 she was a premed for two years.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=5928857#post5928857

On 12/5/07 she was a psychology major.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=474861

On 11/2/07 she was a biology major.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=467584

On 11/5/07, she was asking around for information on LPN programs.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=5799398#post5799398

On 10/22/07 she worked in the admissions office of a major medical school.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=5745566#post5745566

On 10/11/07 she volunteered in the community learning center.
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=5700169#post5700169

I don't mean to be an ambulance chaser here, but I could take care of this problem in one...maybe two shamanic sessions...

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

yes, i am applying to the Ph.D in Neuroscience program at my school as sorta a backup plan. i find the subject matter interesting and have taken a lot of psychobiology and neuropsych classes in school. however, the word "dissertation" and "thesis" is too scary to actually pursue it. i doubt i'd get in anyways. i have a few years off before PA school though, so i was looking to do something useful during those years.

Just my 2 cents....unless you are ready to eat, live, and breath the topic matter at hand, pursuing a Ph.D. will be torturous and you most likely wouldn't finish your dissertation.

-t

 

[caroladybelle]

Good Lord, according to the Dreyfus Model and other models of skill acquisitions a nurse is still considered an advanced beginner until s/he has 2-3 years clinical experience. (referenced from Nursing Today, transitions and trends. Zerwekh and Claborn)

A competent nurse needs 2-3 years clinical experience; be able to deliver acceptable care; understand nursing principles and interventions; be able to recognize and act on trends that lead to emergent situations r/t his/her specialty;manage time wisely; recognize common meds r/t specialty especially indications, contraindications, side-effects, and common interactions/warnings; etc., etc. That's just to be competent...

Anyone wonder about the demise of extended GN and it's effect on new nurses.

With written Boards, I was a supervised (barely, but still supervised) GN for 6 monthes prior to having a license. Now, they go from student to full license in a few weeks. How safe is that?

 

[caroladybelle]

Second, at least in my area all the shift differentials in the world will not get you to $40/hr. I've been practicing for five years, work every weekend, and don't make that much. Many hospitals (including my own ) are cutting differentials. It's how they cut our pay without technically cutting our pay.

Ditto. Heck, as a traveler, I rarely ever hit $40/hr. I certainly don't when I am local in Florida...and I am currently off the road and local.

The number of places that never pay time and 1/2 for holidays, or only offer 4-6 holiday days per year. There is nothing like having the doctrine of "The hospital is open 24/7 and nurses have no holidays" preached......and then coming in to find the cafeteria/OT/PT/transport closed on Martin Luther King Day, for goodness sake.

(Fab, a permanent job at the NIH was really tempting....every federal holiday covered, and exemptions from some of the annoying insurance/fed regs...it would almost make it worth being under the authority of GWB)

 

[Taurus]

CT Surgery? I don't get it . . .

But yeah, anes got messed up. But that's because their older staff sold out their younger guys to make an extra buck. Everyone saw it coming, but no one who wanted to stop it had the power.

You don't know the story behind CT surgery? Maybe you should go back and learn your history.

CT surgery used to be the most sought surgical specialty. Why? Because they were making like a million a piece and being treated like rock stars. That was in the 80's at the height. Then something called minimally invasive procedures came along. What did the CT surgeons do? They scoffed at it. They thought that cracking people's chests was the only way to go. The cardiologists picked it up and the rest, as they say, is history. Since then, cards have seen their salaries to be among the highest. CT surgery? Their salaries are 30-40% of their peak. CT surgery can't even fill their slots an annual basis. Grads have a hard time finding jobs.

If the CT surgeons had a visionary among their leaders, they would never have given up minimally invasive work to the cards.

 

[fab4fan]

(Fab, a permanent job at the NIH was really tempting....every federal holiday covered, and exemptions from some of the annoying insurance/fed regs...it would almost make it worth being under the authority of GWB)

I'm sorry, I think I was hallucinating. Did you say something, caroladybelle?

 

[zenman]

Would there be circle dancing? Because nothing says "shaman" like circle dancing.

Sorry; not with Inca shamanism. I know some Indians though...

 

[zenman]

Holy crap, you're going to cut someone's heart out?!

Get a grip Tired...Indians dance in a circle...among other groups...

 

[Taurus]

I was focused on the midlevel thing, wasn't thinking about minimally-invasive.

And it's not my history. My history is not that of glorified General Surgeons who lack the cojones to back their own and protect their field. My history is one of ambulatory surgery centers, high volume surgical practices, cash-only procedures, and otherwise-healthy patients.

Glorify the CT surgeons all you want. They were suckers.

There's a reason you can't subspecialize from Gen Surg into Ortho.

I'm sure the CT surgeons at the time thought the same as you.

You can't predict what the future will hold.

Radiologists will probably do more colonoscopies than GI's in the future because of virtual colonoscopy. Maybe CMS will continue to screw surgeons with more cuts, RVU's, and the global fee. Maybe the PA who is standing across from you in the OR today will be your future competitor. Do you think that the internists ever thought that NP's would work independently when they first created the role? No, because they were stuck in ivory tower thinking.

Being complacent will only get you killed out there.

http://vasculardiseasemanagement.com/article/8077

http://vasculardiseasemanagement.com/article/8080#

Medicare reimbursement for cardiac surgery has seen dramatic reductions since the 1980s. As a result of Medicare reform in the early 1990s, reimbursement for CABG fell by more than 50% compared to reimbursement in the 1980s. In 2002, CABG reimbursement by Medicare had decreased by 38% compared to the 1990s, a trend that has continued over the last 5 years. Residents in cardiothoracic surgery cite dwindling reimbursement rates and limited job selection as the two biggest concerns with the field.

A recent poll of graduates from approved cardiothoracic surgery programs in the U.S. identified significant difficulties in finding suitable job placement. In this report, 16% of those polled did not receive a single job interview, and 80% of those who sought additional training did so as a result of an inability to find a suitable job. Over 80% reported difficulty in finding a job. Importantly, almost one-fourth of those polled would not choose a career in cardiothoracic surgery again, and more than half would not recommend the field to potential trainees.​

 

[foreverLaur]

My class schedule rarely works with the hours required by being a nurse at a hospital. I can go to the restaurant at 5pm and be out by 10pm. Most hospitals don't allow 5 hour shifts.

Waitresses make a lot more than $7/hr. I make $3.50/hr + tips. I average about $50 during a 5 hour shift. So, $13.50/hr really isn't that bad when it works a lot better around my school schedule.

Why not enter a PA program right away? One reason is that I'd like to enter a PA program in the same area where my sister goes to college so I can watch her play volleyball. I won't know that when I would need to apply. Also, I don't feel my minimal hours working at the hospital have prepared me for a PA program. I feel like I would be a better student and future PA if I dedicated a year or two to working. Also, if I don't get into PA school the first time around, being an RN is a solid career. I could work for another year or maybe realize that nursing is the route for me. The BSN will also allow me to pursue CRNA or NP if I decided to go that route. The money I'll make working will also allow me to pay off my undergraduate loans and hopefully make a little money to help pay for graduate school. Also, I never took organic chemistry or biological chemistry. A decent amount of PA programs require that. I only took general chem, physics, biology, and microbiology courses. Orgo scared me - tried to postpone it for as long as possible.

I'm not quite sure how I am classified as a college student.
If you look at the total number of years I have been enrolled in a college, I am a 5th year senior.
If you look at the total number of years I have been enrolled in a college since I graduated high school, I am a junior.
If you look at the credit hours I have, I am a senior.

This whole thing of me not having a clue how I am classified makes things rather confusing.

Changing your major when you have 1.5 years left until graduation isn't a big deal. I can still graduate a quarter early since most of the psych programs only have prerequisites of statistics and intro to psych. I already have my general education done. Take 4 psych classes a quarter and presto.

The accounting work for E&Y was for two summers and I did some part-time work during the school year last year. I'm not on work study either. The job in the med school admissions office was just a regular student job that I did before decided to waitress. I spent my days sorting through files, contacting applicants, copying, answering the phone, etc.

I have never intended to exaggerate my personal experiences. I state where I gain my information from and to the best of my knowledge none of it has been false. Since most of the people I get my information from don't get onto online forums to post things (my mom is rather computer illiterate still), I post it for them because it is good advice from veterans in the field. You don't have to agree, but that is the viewpoint and experiences of people who have been in the field for years.

 

[Taurus]

There is no such equivalent in Ortho right now, at least as far as I know.

So let me understand your logic. Since you don't think you'll be affected, you don't care. Great thinking. You're only perpetuating the stereotype of folks who go into ortho.

Besides anesthesiology, surgery is one field where I can midlevels like PA's or RNFA's functioning like CRNA's. Why? Because it's so procedural. An ortho guy can have 4 OR's running at the same time and he floats between them to make sure everything is going ok. And he'll be able to bill all of them. That was the ingenious model that the anesthesiologists can up with. How long does it take to train somone to do biopsies or an appy? Or in your case, reduce and close an open fracture? Once you let them through the door, they want it all.

If you really knew your history, you would know that once upon a time a few decades ago there was a surgical midlevel role. The surgeons wisely shut down the role because unlike the anesthesiologists the surgeons realized that if they allowed the role to flourish they would be selling out their profession.

So, keep thinking that you're completely safe in your job. Even neurosurgeons have competition from neuroradiologists. If ortho continues to look like a nice and juicy target, some group, maybe not midlevels but other specialties, will want a piece of your action.

 

[All4MyDaughter]

This thread has gotten REALLY off-topic. Let's re-focus, please.

 

[Farmer Jane]

I can definitely handle the brown more than the green. I did Phlebbin' for two years and I think Nurse is more for me. RT is cool, but the possibilities are much too great in Nursing to turn it down.

Thanks for the help.

Good luck to you!

One of the best things about nursing is that if you don't like where you are, go somewhere else. For example, you can get your start in med/surg, and then do labor & delivery until you get completely burned out, and then work in admissions. Not that I know anyone who did that.

 

[fab4fan]

Good luck to you!

One of the best things about nursing is that if you don't like where you are, go somewhere else. For example, you can get your start in med/surg, and then do labor & delivery until you get completely burned out, and then work in admissions. Not that I know anyone who did that.

I agree with this. I'm going into my twenty-third year (God...) and I have changed specialties quite a few times. One thing I won't do, ever--OB. As God is my witness, I will work at Burger King before I work anywhere that involves birthin' babies. When I worked in the ED and preggos came into triage the first thing I would try to find out is what their due date was and if it was something I could immediately turf to the OB unit. I do not like OB. Blech.

All things considered, I would really want someone to think long and hard about going into nursing. It's got its benefits, but I don't like a lot of the trends I'm seeing, and it's only going to get worse.

 

[foreverLaur]

All things considered, I would really want someone to thing long and hard about going into nursing. It's got its benefits, but I don't like a lot of the trends I'm seeing, and it's only going to get worse.

Could you elaborate, please?

 

[fab4fan]

I'm really kind of exhausted with talking to you, Lauren. Your plan is to be a PA, so in any case, if you do get into a nursing program you'll be taking a spot from someone who really wants to be a nurse. That's pretty poor.

If you have questions about the nursing profession, and you really shouldn't since you claim to be an LPN, ask your mother or your friend. To be blunt, I have wasted too much time with your posts.

 

[foreverLaur]

I'm really kind of exhausted with talking to you, Lauren. Your plan is to be a PA, so in any case, if you do get into a nursing program you'll be taking a spot from someone who really wants to be a nurse. That's pretty poor.

If you have questions about the nursing profession, and you really shouldn't since you claim to be an LPN, ask your mother or your friend. To be blunt, I have wasted too much time with your posts.

1. I already got into an accelerated BSN program
2. At least the ones in my area are easy to get into. For fall enrollment they get about 30 apps for 20 seats. For spring and summer the apps about equal enrollment.
3. I figured it would be useful information.
4. Who is to say I won't really enjoy being a nurse and stick with it? Who is to say I won't become an NP or CRNA? Granted PA seems to best fit my interests but things change.
5. I don't work in the hospitals much. It is hard to do while taking 21 credit hours. I'd have to work at least an 8 hr shift and I don't have the time.
6. My mother works part time in an allergy office and my aunt has a very different view of nursing out in the hospital. I'd like to get as many viewpoints and opinions as possible.
7. I guess I'll just go ask on a forum where the purpose of the forum is to provide valuable information to members. Apparently SDN is not the place. Sorry for my mistake.

 

[Farmer Jane]

This is absolutely the place to ask questions for anyone who isn't a pathological liar.

 

[foreverLaur]

This is absolutely the place to ask questions for anyone who isn't a pathological liar.

Just because I've jumped around colleges, majors, and jobs doesn't mean I'm lying about any of them. At least when I graduated I'll know I have a career that I love. I won't be 30 and realize I hate my job. I've learned a lot in the past few years and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

I can provide references to back up everything I have said.

 

[telenurse]

Could you elaborate, please?

go to allnurses.com...and you can read quite a bit about nursing from nurses

 

[core0]

All things considered, I would really want someone to think long and hard about going into nursing. It's got its benefits, but I don't like a lot of the trends I'm seeing, and it's only going to get worse.

I would like your opinion since it is somewhat at variance to what I have seen over the last ten years. I agree that its tough work. Also as a non-nurse I don't always have the right perspective. Heres my take.
PCA/Critical care tech Early 90's. Nurses had 7-9 full care patients with two techs at night. Impossible work load.

Now nurses have 5-6 patients with 1-3 techs (depending on who calls in sick).

N is small but seems consistent. What I seem to be seeing across multiple hospitals in two states is the patient load is going down. Now the part that I don't like is that the unreasonable demands on nursing and everyone else seem to be rising. It may be my point of view (GI which has lots of supratentorial pathology) now I work in transplant (hmm lots of supratentorial pathology I think I see the problem). But it seems to be a general problem in all areas of medicine. So my question is are we promoting this behavior by giving the patients more "help" which tends to be used for social as opposed to medical purposes.

I would be interested in which trends you don't like.

David Carpenter, PA-C

 

[fab4fan]

I would like your opinion since it is somewhat at variance to what I have seen over the last ten years. I agree that its tough work. Also as a non-nurse I don't always have the right perspective. Heres my take.
PCA/Critical care tech Early 90's. Nurses had 7-9 full care patients with two techs at night. Impossible work load.

Now nurses have 5-6 patients with 1-3 techs (depending on who calls in sick).

N is small but seems consistent. What I seem to be seeing across multiple hospitals in two states is the patient load is going down. Now the part that I don't like is that the unreasonable demands on nursing and everyone else seem to be rising. It may be my point of view (GI which has lots of supratentorial pathology) now I work in transplant (hmm lots of supratentorial pathology I think I see the problem). But it seems to be a general problem in all areas of medicine. So my question is are we promoting this behavior by giving the patients more "help" which tends to be used for social as opposed to medical purposes.

I would be interested in which trends you don't like.

David Carpenter, PA-C

Improved ratios haven't happened in my area. I'm hoping they do, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

The paperwork is getting out of control, courtesy of JCAHO. In the last couple of months we have had more forms thrown at us to complete, more audits we now have to do, all because of JCAHO. This means more time away from patient care.

I really hate the increased emphasis on "customer service." Whenever a pt. or family member has a complaint, admin. seizes on it and is quick to point the finger right at nursing. I believe in making people comfortable and trying to make reasonable accommodations, but when we start trying to make hospitals 5 star hotels it just gets ridiculous. Patients and families have gotten ruder and more demanding. We (nurses) aren't allowed to set any limits for fear of losing a "customer."

I've been doing this for over 20 years. I have a lot of exp., plenty of skills. Yet I don't make much more than I did in the early 90s. That's not just my individual case; if you look at national statistics, nursing wages have remained flat. I probably won't make much more unless I move, in which case the cost of living would increase, so there would be little to gain. In nursing, once you're in for a certain number of years you tend to hit a ceiling with wages.

There are some other issues, but I'm not really comfortable posting them on a public forum. If you want, I can PM you the rest.

 

[fab4fan]

LOL..."supratentorial pathology." Been a while since I heard that one, but it always makes me laugh.

 

[telenurse]

Improved ratios haven't happened in my area. I'm hoping they do, but I'm not going to hold my breath.

The paperwork is getting out of control, courtesy of JCAHO. In the last couple of months we have had more forms thrown at us to complete, more audits we now have to do, all because of JCAHO. This means more time away from patient care.

I really hate the increased emphasis on "customer service." Whenever a pt. or family member has a complaint, admin. seizes on it and is quick to point the finger right at nursing. I believe in making people comfortable and trying to make reasonable accommodations, but when we start trying to make hospitals 5 star hotels it just gets ridiculous. Patients and families have gotten ruder and more demanding. We (nurses) aren't allowed to set any limits for fear of losing a "customer."

Well, paperwork is ridiculous. To admit a 23 hour observation pt with chest pain, negative workup, I have to screen him for pneumoccocal and flu vaccinations, living will/MPOA, suicidal ideations, home health needs (including equipment such as O2 etc), find out if he needs prescription assistance, do CA-MRSA teaching (all pt's in my hospital are nasal swabbed), assess for falls, in addition to perfoming a nursing assessment and history. then there are forms and documentation for everything.

Customer service. Any complaints about the room, diet, linens, transport, noise (beeping machines), disturbances (frequent vital signs), all fall on nursing. I do my best to care for my pt's, but I have my limits.

When a pt has q4 hour vital signs ordered and I have to wake them up at 0300, that is taking care of the pt, and if the family member sleeping in the room gets woken up too, tough. ( this family member was a MD at my hospital, and threatened my job. Present job)

When a pt is totally bedridden, she must be turned to prevent bedsores, this is basic nursing care. Calling me everything but a child of God will not change the fact that I am trying to provide excellent nursing care.( I got in trouble for "alienating" the pig ignorant family member. Never mind the pt had maggots on her legs when she was brought in, my nurse manager wouldn't back me because the family didn't want staff to turn her. past job)

I got written up because a pt stated he felt "belittled" and "talked down to" when I stated the words "please understand" to him when providing pt teaching"

A family member complained that I ignored them as they were asking me for something, in the complaint it stated I was walking very fast pushing a "big red cart". I was expected to sign this complaint and apologize. I refused.

 

[LizUMD]

1. I already got into an accelerated BSN program
2. At least the ones in my area are easy to get into. For fall enrollment they get about 30 apps for 20 seats. For spring and summer the apps about equal enrollment.
3. I figured it would be useful information.
4. Who is to say I won't really enjoy being a nurse and stick with it? Who is to say I won't become an NP or CRNA? Granted PA seems to best fit my interests but things change.
5. I don't work in the hospitals much. It is hard to do while taking 21 credit hours. I'd have to work at least an 8 hr shift and I don't have the time.
6. My mother works part time in an allergy office and my aunt has a very different view of nursing out in the hospital. I'd like to get as many viewpoints and opinions as possible.
7. I guess I'll just go ask on a forum where the purpose of the forum is to provide valuable information to members. Apparently SDN is not the place. Sorry for my mistake.

You've stated before that you won't get your bachelor's until May 2009. What kind of accelerated BSN program is even accepting applications yet for a summer/fall 2009 cycle, let alone already sending out acceptances? That's almost two years away!

BTW, I'm not even a nurse but I do agree that its pretty crappy to take a spot in a BSN program when you plan on becoming a PA. There's a shortage in many areas of needed nurses right now and you'd likely be taking a spot from someone who actually intends to commit to the profession. Not admirable. Aren't your stats good enough to apply to a PA program right away? You could certainly get your "clinical exposure" requirements as an LPN.

 

[foreverLaur]

You've stated before that you won't get your bachelor's until May 2009. What kind of accelerated BSN program is even accepting applications yet for a summer/fall 2009 cycle, let alone already sending out acceptances? That's almost two years away!

BTW, I'm not even a nurse but I do agree that its pretty crappy to take a spot in a BSN program when you plan on becoming a PA. There's a shortage in many areas of needed nurses right now and you'd likely be taking a spot from someone who actually intends to commit to the profession. Not admirable. Aren't your stats good enough to apply to a PA program right away? You could certainly get your "clinical exposure" requirements as an LPN.

I'm not 100% dead set on PA. It is definitely winning right now, but I'm not ready to rule out CRNA or CNP.

I'm graduating in March of '09. I decided to go to school next summer and then graduate a quarter early since I have to be here anyways for research. I did early acceptance and I'm doing a few of the extra prerequisite courses online through the school. There was only one person who didn't get accepted into the program anyways. The second degree BSN programs I know of aren't that popular. One up by my hometown didn't even get enough applicants to fill up its seats for the spring semester starting session.

 

[PhysioMan]

Just because I've jumped around colleges, majors, and jobs doesn't mean I'm lying about any of them. At least when I graduated I'll know I have a career that I love. I won't be 30 and realize I hate my job. I've learned a lot in the past few years and I wouldn't trade it for anything.

I can provide references to back up everything I have said.

I agree that you are not lying. You wear your inexperience and anecdotal curiosity well. That is a compliment. Pick a path though and stick with it. Otherwise you will be "30 and realize I hate my job" because you lack passion for it...

 

[Stephineprine]

And very few places in this country pay $40/hr right out of school. Many do not pay that after 20 years. Utah, about 4 years ago, was offering $16.00/hr. Florida pays $16-$23/hr to start, and less out of the hospital. Nurses after 10 years for Florida, $25/hr in the centrally part of the state. Georgia pays $18-$23 just out of school.

Wow, that's pretty dismal.... In California tarting pay for 90% time fresh out of RN school (ADN or otherwise) 87K for neuro ICU) After one year and completion of new grad program pay goes up to 92K per year. Not too shabby. Per diem ER nurses can make upwards of 68 bucks per hour. Really so not too shabby.

 

[fab4fan]

Adjusted to cost of living, not the greatest.

Look at the overall trends in pay, not just one isolated area. If you look at the stats on the DOL, you'll find that there has been relatively limited growth when it comes to income.

That doesn't matter to some people, but to others, myself included, it is a consideration, especially when we continue to get more responsibilities.

 

[JRJ26]

I agree that you are not lying. You wear your inexperience and anecdotal curiosity well. That is a compliment. Pick a path though and stick with it. Otherwise you will be "30 and realize I hate my job" because you lack passion for it...

I think that she's not telling the complete truth. I like the fascination with different health care professions, but thinking you are right for all of them isn't possible. Most nurses don't want to be doctors, most doctors don't want to be nurses, PAs don't want to be nurses or doctors, etc. Also, the number of health related friends she has is staggering. I work in a hospital, am in the nursing and health studies school, know a few med students that used to go to my undergrad, and I still don't know as many CRNAs, PAs, nurses, surgery residents, etc. And I don't really believe that she's an LPN b/c she specifically asks about LPN program for herself: "if anyone can find me an EMT program or LPN program in Ohio that I can complete in less than 1 year, please send me a link! thanks.", as she was asking about how to get experience for PA school. Interestingly, she claims to be both an LPN and an EMT-B at various points.

 

[JRJ26]

HA, and she already took Anatomy/Physiology at a top ranked Med school. ok, i'll stop wasting time and study now.

 

[foreverLaur]

I took it at Ohio State, which has a nice medical school. If you look at our ANATOMY 200 and PHYSIOCB 311/312 sequence, they are taught by medical school faculty, but designed for undergraduate students as a prep for more advanced work. That is what I took.

1. My mother is an LPN gone RN.
2. A lady she works with has a daughter who is a CRNA in Chicago whom I met a few years back and became friends with
3. My aunt across the nation is a CCRN with a masters degree.
4. Both my neighbors from when I was growing up are doing the 6 year BS/MD program at NEOUCOM (one is in his 3rd year of med school and the other is in his 1st year of med school)


I have spent a month volunteering in the ED full time before I left for my E&Y gig and I have spend a lot of time shadowing the orthopaedic surgeon and his PA who operated on my sister and who will be operating on me in a few months. However, those I listed above are the only ones I would consider friends and the only ones I would hang out with outside of a professional environment.

Also, I don't think I am a right fit for PA, CNP, CRNA, and RN. I just don't know which one I am the right fit for with complete certainty. That is why I plan to work full time as an RN after I get my degree and get a more person view on each field and see which one fits my preferences and goals best. Based on what I know about the fields, I think PA is the route to go, but we'll see.

 

[PhysioMan]

I stayed at a Holliday Inn once too...
Look, the reality is that all those paths will take you through a series of ups and downs. If you are trying to choose one based on what is "easiest" or most convenient (just around home, shortest time to paydirt) then you will most certainly find that the downs will be lower.

Degrees, titles, "prestigious" school attendance, etc. are factors that should be weighed in relation to your ultimate fit. You COULD do anything, but do you have the RESOLVE to do it and do it well? Not everyone should be a PA...

 

[horsenurse25]

Adjusted to cost of living, not the greatest.

Look at the overall trends in pay, not just one isolated area. If you look at the stats on the DOL, you'll find that there has been relatively limited growth when it comes to income.

That doesn't matter to some people, but to others, myself included, it is a consideration, especially when we continue to get more responsibilities.

I think that will change. As more shortages occur, more money will be put on the table.

You all need to move to the West Coast.
California salaries are excellent, even in Northern Cal where the cost of living is not bad at all.

But Washington is great. My sister-in-law just moved there and got hired (head hunted actually) on as a staff nurse in Washington state. She has 8 years experience in med/surg. She is making $87,000 per year. She said that she thought about Oregon, but the average wage there is only about $70,000 - $75,000 at her level.

I think I might move to Washington next. Nearer to Canada, land of the friendly people. California is just getting too crowded.

 

[fab4fan]

I don't really want to live in CA. That state is either on fire, having an earthquake, mudslide or some other sort of natural disaster.

I've heard the promises of more wages with shortages for years. The problem is, I don't want to be breaking my back because there's a shortage. I've already been an RN for 23y. You do the math; I'm not old, but in terms of "nurse years," I'm not exactly inclined to be running around like a chicken with my head cut off for the last years of my career.