Mountains - Game Thread

[speechy_keen]

? We've yet to hear anything from speechy, mayo, genny, or dolph herself. That's almost half the roster that hasn't commented at all.

I'm going to look back at genny and dolphin since I haven't been suspicious of them. I'm going to see if I pick up on anything that y'all are seeing.

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[potentialsheltervet]

So it’s not really a thing that I have a habit of killing shorty, I just happen to have done it twice and they ended up being high profile, and led to a running joke.

"Don't forget, he killed his wife N0."
"She was only my fiance at the time!"
Finally... finally I know the context for the signature.

 

[Crayola227]

I guess it’s more accurate to say, I don’t recall you making a “Aww shucks, idk what the wolf:village ratio is” fake post as a wolf. I do remember from wolfing with you that you were always hyper aware of the numbers. It’s certainly possible you could fake that as a wolf. I just don’t remember you ever doing that.

So the question rang as genuine to me, instead of a ploy.

This makes sense. Yes, very true that as a wolf I am extremely aware of the numbers that way.

When I village I don't bother to map out how many cycles until lylo. That is very important for wolves who have control over who to NK. As a villager it's not up to me alone who dies when and who I choose to vote is very rarely affected by when lylo is coming. My point being that it Matters more for wolf agenda strat and planning. Villagers can afford to be More aimless on this, you show up and vote who you think is wolfiest that day, period.. I mean thread state and where others are at matters for it, bit it's all on thread. You can show up sorta clueless and hope your fellow villagers are posting and that you'll get clued in that way.

I mean there are better ways to village, certainly.

I don't really know my wolf tells, trying to remember who claimed to have some on me...I thought samac, shorty, or alley claimed to have one? I dunno.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

My mom was talking about my puppy's supper:
"I put the bowl down and he wolfed it down."
speechy: "Wolf?"

 

[Animal Midwife]

Day 4 Yeet Tally
Cray () -
PSV () -
dolphin (3) - Zenge, PSV, Cray

3/9
yeet close in ~23.5 hours

 

[speechy_keen]

Yeah she's village

I don't know. I don't I don't really know her but I feel like that's something you could fake so people think you don't really know what's going on when in actuality so know exactly what's going on.

 

[Truenamer]

Day 4 Yeet Tally
Cray () -
PSV () -
dolphin (3) - Zenge, PSV, Cray

3/9
yeet close in ~23.5 hours

Dislike how there are no defenses or protestations, but if the wolves are who I think they are they're more than happy to do a little bussing.

Yeet Dolphin

Not married to this, happy to hear Dolphin's case.

 

[Truenamer]

I'm going to look back at genny and dolphin since I haven't been suspicious of them. I'm going to see if I pick up on anything that y'all are seeing.

I'll restate that my problem with trying to get a read on genny is that there's usually nothing particularly suspicious because there just isn't much there at all. Minimal posts, each of which is rarely a full line long.

It's perfect for being completely ignored as a serious yeet consideration.

 

[dolphin106258]

Dislike how there are no defenses or protestations, but if the wolves are who I think they are they're more than happy to do a little bussing.

Yeet Dolphin

Not married to this, happy to hear Dolphin's case.

I’m so very tired and love checking into the thread to see we’re happy to almost be at majority lol. So don’t know if my defense will matter much. A little confused where your vote is even coming from? Seems like Zenge said hey I’d rather vote dolphin because I totally built a really strong case yesterday. But also at the same time PSV disagreed with points made by Zenge but has now turned around to say sure okay I’ll vote with you. Based on any new information? Oh no none that’s right that’s what I thought.

 

[dolphin106258]

Are you willing to try Dolphin with me? Because I still stand by my case on Dolphin.

Unyeet PSV
Yeet Dolphin

What is that case exactly? Those few posts you said was one way and I rebuffed.. hmm strong case for sure.

 

[dolphin106258]

I’m so very tired and love checking into the thread to see we’re happy to almost be at majority lol. So don’t know if my defense will matter much. A little confused where your vote is even coming from? Seems like Zenge said hey I’d rather vote dolphin because I totally built a really strong case yesterday. But also at the same time PSV disagreed with points made by Zenge but has now turned around to say sure okay I’ll vote with you. Based on any new information? Oh no none that’s right that’s what I thought.

Sorry there was supposed to be a quote from PSV in there idk what happened..

 

[dolphin106258]

I’m a little annoyed that everyone had so much time to be on the thread but I’ve yet to see any substantiative argument about why they’re even voting me. I already know Zenge is saying what theyve already said which I’ve already defended myself against, but nobody else bothered to even come up with anything. Or explain any rationale, so that’s kind of hard to even explain or defend yourself against. I’m a lot tired but we all know today is an important vote and we can’t afford a misyeet so I don’t get how we care about that but not enough to provide any thoughts.

 

[dolphin106258]

It looked like it had been stuck on a tie on those two, which worried me that they were villagers and we did not have a wolf in danger. Does that make sense? Because often if it's getting close to deadline and you have a wolf tied for yeet or up for yeet, then you see the pack start shifting votes or making moves to save them. Also I was indecisive. I Sussex Barks and thought adding her to the ties might force wolf hands on any of those 3 and reveal who was wolf.

It also occurred to me that maybe it was a tie for the two and they were both wolves and trying not to make it too obvious they needed to do something to save themselves.

I hope this makes more sense.

I know it probably seems to contradict anywhere I was sussing them, but if there is anything we should have learned by now, it's when I am village I have a lot of sus to go around, but also a lot of doubts. Sometimes, rarely, am I confident of a read. If I am, I will say so. If I don't, assume that yes, I am leaning on someone, but when you're village it's very important to keep an open mind and be willing to reevaluate any given read.

So I definitely Sussex Sunny & Barks and I was wrong. I thought Shorty was village and was right, but I am ALWaYS paranoid of strong village reads.

Thankfully with Shorty I didn't sheep the wrong person. But nor am I much help gamesolving ie leading us to the right people.

Is it correct we think this is Yolo? Yeet correctly or lose?

Is there... any chance it's 3D chess and her super-out-of-the-loop questions are fake? It's been kind of excessive, she forgot that there were no PRs like twice

No. It read like a genuine question.

I’ve never really seen Cray fake those kinds of things.

Also this exchange and exchanges like it where Cray just explains her wolf or village meta and we all nod along and agree just confuses me, because several of my earlier posts have been like that where I explain my thoughts and how I come to conclusions and that’s thrown out as not game solving or adding no value. But when others do it, it does add and is helpful. Which is why I tend to get annoyed playing this game and why others have said I’m always found sketch for something.

This makes me get a lil weird tingle from you, in that you would kill your wife with no compunction, I don't know how good her "reading card" is, I thought Dubz had one? In any case, I bring it up, because actually yes I have totally faked the idiot questions as a wolf. Well, not always faked as much as made no effort to avoid. But I probably don't do it as much as when I am village. Because while wolf I must copy my village meta, but the idiocy things can backfire and get you yeeted. Which is less bad when you village (yo ass getting misyeeted by wolves for dumb things you said can reveal them as opportunistic) but is not at all helpful to your team as a wolf.

Yes, I am big on copying village meta as a wolf, but it is exactly that I am copying village meta, and not a question of making my village play match my wolf play if that makes any sense. Village Cray dgaf the way Wolf Cray does.

Anyway, I appreciate the vote of confidence from you, and hope you meant what you said here, but not sure it's *entirely* accurate.

This makes sense. Yes, very true that as a wolf I am extremely aware of the numbers that way.

When I village I don't bother to map out how many cycles until lylo. That is very important for wolves who have control over who to NK. As a villager it's not up to me alone who dies when and who I choose to vote is very rarely affected by when lylo is coming. My point being that it Matters more for wolf agenda strat and planning. Villagers can afford to be More aimless on this, you show up and vote who you think is wolfiest that day, period.. I mean thread state and where others are at matters for it, bit it's all on thread. You can show up sorta clueless and hope your fellow villagers are posting and that you'll get clued in that way.

I mean there are better ways to village, certainly.

I don't really know my wolf tells, trying to remember who claimed to have some on me...I thought samac, shorty, or alley claimed to have one? I dunno.

Like okay so we go off of what Cray herself is telling us about her own past play as 100% verified? and Zenge saying oh she would definitely be on top of the number and things as a wolf even though she’s already said hey I’m not able to be as present and following the thread bc of things, but somehow that’s not also factored in allowing for the possibility of her being a wolf. Because if you’re not able to be present in the thread as much and follow things then that’s going to affect your wolf play just as much as your village play. So I don’t think it’s a fair assessment for Zenge to be throwing out these comments saying oh well here’s another reason why Cray can’t be a wolf. When the reasoning isn’t that strong.

Overall it feels like we aren’t reassessing after the sunny flip, we’re just plowing ahead with one persons ideas. Which isn’t usually the greatest idea when any further misyeets will make it increasingly more difficult going forward

 

[dolphin106258]

vote Cray

Because I’m tired and I want to sleep and at least have a vote in for someone in case everyone ignores literally everything I’ve said and goes for majority before I awaken.

Also I know in general I’m terrible at reading Cray but I can’t get the Wolfy vibes out of my head since the other day. I think some of what Cray is able to say and discuss and just explain away why she does certain things allows her to slip through situations or conflict with people, while also still participating. Idk I have more thoughts but my brain is really not working I’m too sleepy.

 

[Crayola227]

Also this exchange and exchanges like it where Cray just explains her wolf or village meta and we all nod along and agree just confuses me, because several of my earlier posts have been like that where I explain my thoughts and how I come to conclusions and that’s thrown out as not game solving or adding no value. But when others do it, it does add and is helpful. Which is why I tend to get annoyed playing this game and why others have said I’m always found sketch for something.


Like okay so we go off of what Cray herself is telling us about her own past play as 100% verified? and Zenge saying oh she would definitely be on top of the number and things as a wolf even though she’s already said hey I’m not able to be as present and following the thread bc of things, but somehow that’s not also factored in allowing for the possibility of her being a wolf. Because if you’re not able to be present in the thread as much and follow things then that’s going to affect your wolf play just as much as your village play. So I don’t think it’s a fair assessment for Zenge to be throwing out these comments saying oh well here’s another reason why Cray can’t be a wolf. When the reasoning isn’t that strong.

Overall it feels like we aren’t reassessing after the sunny flip, we’re just plowing ahead with one persons ideas. Which isn’t usually the greatest idea when any further misyeets will make it increasingly more difficult going forward

This is all well and good, except literally D1 in every wolf chat I go through and figure out based on wolf numbers and villager numbers, how many cycles to lylo assuming all kills go through and all pack mates survive. Because as Visc said, just about every game suffers from "too many villagers to kill not enough time." And I always repeat the advice from Mafia Wiki, wolves need to be planning their ideal lylo sitch from D1 and then craft it with NK choices and misyeet targets. So you absolutely have to do this and I do it every game. It isn't that hard and doesn't take that long. I should probably do this as a villager- except a huge main difference is I don't know pack size for sure in most games. I guess this one I do.

Obviously everything I say could be a lie and I could be a wolf. Just as I was able to see wolfiness in Barks, Sunny, hell even my village reads Shorty and Zenge (and one of them is confirmed). You can make a case for anyone.

But it doesn't change the fact, that when wolf, the above is what I do. And it doesn't change the fact my villager play is sloppy and lackadaisical at times. Could I try to play better or do numbers analysis as a villager as I do as a wolf? Sure. But. I. Don't.

So then, people have to ask, does this behavior feel genuine or does it feel faked. That's basically always the question, isn't it?

Now for how to figure that out, I can't help you.

My only tip is, look for intent to deceive. That was the thing about the issue with Sunny. I was NOT trying to act like there were For sure PRs. I wasn't Obviously trying to deceive.

See, Pippy claimed a PR in a mountainous game when scum. That was intent to deceive, clearly.

Now, you could say this is all an intent to deceive but it's Harder to see because I'm not being obvious about it.

I get the WIFOM nature to it all. I can never offer an explanation without being an IC, that will make my being a wolf impossible. And in fact that is not what I'm trying to do. I'm trying to explain, base on meta, how my play is consistent with my being a villager. And people will have to decide if what I'm saying is true, at least on that front.

I never lie about my meta. The real issue, is trying to figure out which meta of mine am I fitting into.

And my real hope with this, which sadly I am not focusing on analysis of others, is that at minimum I am providing opportunities for others to chime in an interact with me, in the hopes this will reveal they have a villager motivation or a wolfy way of going about it.

 

[Crayola227]

I guess the thing is too that keeping track of days and numbers is painful to me. I'll do it in pack chat because more is riding on me (the whole game it feels like). But when village I don't bother I know someone else whose brain works better, will do it. Or it doesnt matter if i see lylo coming or not.

 

[Crayola227]

vote Cray

Because I’m tired and I want to sleep and at least have a vote in for someone in case everyone ignores literally everything I’ve said and goes for majority before I awaken.

Also I know in general I’m terrible at reading Cray but I can’t get the Wolfy vibes out of my head since the other day. I think some of what Cray is able to say and discuss and just explain away why she does certain things allows her to slip through situations or conflict with people, while also still participating. Idk I have more thoughts but my brain is really not working I’m too sleepy.

The issue is that you can only try to explain your behavior in terms of your meta, if there are people around who remember playing with you well enough to feel like they can check your claims against their personal experiences and beliefs about your meta.

And certainly it can never hurt to try to offer an explanation for your behavior that explains how it's consistent with a villager mindset when other people don't understand why you made x choice.

But yeah, people won't always remember or believe.

 

[Truenamer]

Feeling guilty about Dolphin this morning, need to do my due diligence. Even if she's a wolf, she's absolutely right that now isn't the time to get lazy or sloppy with votes.

I guess from my perspective, I feel like I've been making terrible picks this game and I want to trust players who actually know you and have seen you wolf before.

 

[Truenamer]

I would love to hear some thoughts from @genny and @holdthemayo !

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I think the problem I'm having is that there's a pretty small pool of players I have an interest in voting. They're all going to claim they're not a wolf and we should be looking at someone else.
I feel reasonably comfortable about true, speechy, Vis, and (more neutral but still) zenge. That leaves only Dolph, mayo, genny, and Cray. The way my mind is working right now, we can theoretically afford to misyeet one of these players (not that I want to but) and still win the game. This is assuming none of the players I mentioned earlier are actually wolfing. The way the numbers work out, even if we're wrong today, we can do it.

 

[Zenge142]

vote Cray

Other than Cray who are you wolf reading?

 

[Zenge142]

That leaves only Dolph, mayo, genny,

I could see this as the pack.

 

[Truenamer]

I could see this as the pack.

That's my current theory, yeah.

Especially since Mayo and genny are refusing to come out of wolf chat to give us their reads or opinions :/

 

[Zenge142]

That's my current theory, yeah.

Especially since Mayo and genny are refusing to come out of wolf chat to give us their reads or opinions :/

I mean I do think they’re actually IRL busy, but unfortunately that’s NAI.

 

[kaydubs]

Day 4 Yeet Tally
Cray (1) - dolphin
PSV () -
dolphin (4) - Zenge, PSV, Cray, True

5/9
yeet close in ~12.5 hours

 

[kaydubs]

Please recall majority is in effect. Act accordingly?​

 

[Truenamer]

Please recall majority is in effect. Act accordingly?​

Never

 

[Viscernable]

To get more on the board

Yeet mayo

 

[genny]

That's my current theory, yeah.

Especially since Mayo and genny are refusing to come out of wolf chat to give us their reads or opinions :/

We are a doctor down right now. It’s NAI, but my absence isn’t strategic on my part. It’s just life.

 

[speechy_keen]

I'll restate that my problem with trying to get a read on genny is that there's usually nothing particularly suspicious because there just isn't much there at all. Minimal posts, each of which is rarely a full line long.

It's perfect for being completely ignored as a serious yeet consideration.

Yeah I noticed how short all of her comments have been since the beginning. Now I'm a little unsure of her but I don't know if it's because she's actually sketchy or if it's because I'm really looking for it, you know?

 

[potentialsheltervet]

To get more on the board

Yeet mayo

Can you please explain this more? "To get more on the board" but why? If mayo's absence is real life/NAI yeeting him won't bring him back.

 

[Zenge142]

Can you please explain this more? "To get more on the board" but why? If mayo's absence is real life/NAI yeeting him won't bring him back.

Tell that to @samac, and watch her summon people.

 

[speechy_keen]

Looking back through dolphin's comments, the majority of them seem pretty defensive. Maybe that's normal for her but to me, they kind of stand out. So I could see her being a wolf, even though I hadn't thought that initially.

 

[speechy_keen]

I'm also realizing that most of the people I thought were sketchy have been yoten and revealed to be village so maybe I should go for the opposite of what I'm thinking. True and PSV have never really been on my radar so maybe they should be? Idk. this is tough.

 

[Viscernable]

Can you please explain this more? "To get more on the board" but why? If mayo's absence is real life/NAI yeeting him won't bring him back.

I don’t want one runaway wagon. Less info that way.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I don’t want one runaway wagon. Less info that way.

But like, I don't really understand. If you are village being on mayo doesn't give you, personally, any more info, nor will it force others to vote mayo.
Especially with maj in effect.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Hi Cray

 

[Zenge142]

I don’t want one runaway wagon. Less info that way.

I mean, since we are 1 vote away from maj, I think the fact that no one has come on and been like “Oh let me just vote so I get something down! Oh what? I hammered?! Whoops. Lol ”

Is sort of telling.

I’d expect if we had it wrong, with our misyeet options so low, we would have seen wolves capitalize on the situation and “accidentally” hammer.

 

[speechy_keen]

I mean, since we are 1 vote away from maj, I think the fact that no one has come on and been like “Oh let me just vote so I get something down! Oh what? I hammered?! Whoops. Lol ”

Is sort of telling.

I’d expect if we had it wrong, with our misyeet options so low, we would have seen wolves capitalize on the situation and “accidentally” hammer.

Ooh that's very interesting. I'll think on my vote a little longer but I think that's a very good point.

Does anyone have any reasons why dolphin shouldn't be yoten?

 

[potentialsheltervet]

Does anyone have any reasons why dolphin shouldn't be yoten?

Assuming genny and mayo are her packmates, we're unlikely to see any defense. I am, however, strongly side-eyeing Vis for delaying the hammer.

 

[Zenge142]

I am, however, strongly side-eyeing Vis for delaying the hammer.

I can see both sides of the argument.

I don’t think her voting Mayo will really provide us anything, but delaying a hammer, just to give more time and “see what happens” for analysis sake isn’t necessarily a wrong decision.

The only potential downside being the chance of people getting cold feet or scared off a vote that would have otherwise caught a wolf.

 

[speechy_keen]

I can see both sides of the argument.

I don’t think her voting Mayo will really provide us anything, but delaying a hammer, just to give more time and “see what happens” for analysis sake isn’t necessarily a wrong decision.

The only potential downside being the chance of people getting cold feet or scared off a vote that would have otherwise caught a wolf.

I'm just worried about voting for her if she's not actually a wolf. I don't want to get it wrong and then I'd feel bad too

 

[dolphin106258]

To get more on the board

Yeet mayo

Ahhh telling

 

[dolphin106258]

I mean, since we are 1 vote away from maj, I think the fact that no one has come on and been like “Oh let me just vote so I get something down! Oh what? I hammered?! Whoops. Lol ”

Is sort of telling.

I’d expect if we had it wrong, with our misyeet options so low, we would have seen wolves capitalize on the situation and “accidentally” hammer.

You can’t accidentally hammer if you’re already on the vote

 

[dolphin106258]

I could see this as the pack.

I feel like anyone could see this as a pack with how little genny and mayo have contributed. But sure. I’m not a wolf, but I think out of all the low posters left the only one not in this pack is speechy. So it really is a game of whoever talks the loudest and most is probably village.

 

[dolphin106258]

Other than Cray who are you wolf reading?

I’m started to get annoyed enough with you that I want to throw you out there. Purely for the fact that you are just ignoring what im saying and continuing to push me.

But I also don’t love the flip flopping from PSV on me, you can strongly defend one day to the point other players say hey what’re you doing to going with the flow of others the next.
Mayo or genny could definitely be a wolf with Cray,I feel like they’ve both posted so little I just don’t feel anything about them. I guess I’d go for mayo over genny purely bc I’ve played with her more and seen her low post like this and be misyeeted

 

[potentialsheltervet]

I’m started to get annoyed enough with you that I want to throw you out there. Purely for the fact that you are just ignoring what im saying and continuing to push me.

Who do you think Zenge is compatible with? I could see a Zenge/Cray pack but that would be incredibly ballsy with the way both of them have been playing.

 

[Zenge142]

Who do you think Zenge is compatible with? I could see a Zenge/Cray pack but that would be incredibly ballsy with the way both of them have been playing.

If I was in a pack with Cray, I wouldn’t have let the Cray/Sunny vote go down to the wire like that, knowing that anyone could have broken the tie, moving from Sunny to Cray, and hammered my pack mate.

That’s too risky to just leave up in the air like that.

 

[potentialsheltervet]

If I was in a pack with Cray, I wouldn’t have let the Cray/Sunny vote go down to the wire like that, knowing that anyone could have broken the tie, moving from Sunny to Cray, and hammered my pack mate.

That’s too risky to just leave up in the air like that.

That's fair. My only experience with wolf!Zenge is BoWWling, and we didn't get to see much of that... (@SportPonies)

 

[genny]

Who do you think Zenge is compatible with? I could see a Zenge/Cray pack but that would be incredibly ballsy with the way both of them have been playing.

So what I’m hearing is that Zenge has no balls…

That’s too risky to just leave up in the air like that.

… and Zenge confirms?!?!

Come on, the guy did kill his wife. Surely that takes cojones?