Goro's advice for pre-meds who need reinvention

[swim97]

I have about 150~ credits of a cGPA of 2.9, with a lot of Withdrawals (about 14 W's due to a recent Semester Withdrawal). It's about the ugliest transcript you'll ever see. I am afraid the damage is so deep I am tempted to apply with four semesters of DIY post-bacc and an additional SMP

I've already done 32 credits (Last semester and the Summer) of 3.7+. I am planning on applying to an SMP this next spring and taking two post-bacc semesters (This Fall, Next Spring is DIY Post-Bacc, SMP Starts next year.). Is this overkill? (64 credits Post-Bacc and SMP). No MCAT yet, taking this Winter.

I want some time in between my semester withdrawal, which was just last year before applying to Medical School. Applying the year after I feel is rather risky.

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[Goro]

I have about 150~ credits of a cGPA of 2.9, with a lot of Withdrawals (about 14 W's due to a recent Semester Withdrawal). It's about the ugliest transcript you'll ever see. I am afraid the damage is so deep I am tempted to apply with four semesters of DIY post-bacc and an additional SMP

I've already done 32 credits (Last semester and the Summer) of 3.7+. I am planning on applying to an SMP this next spring and taking two post-bacc semesters (This Fall, Next Spring is DIY Post-Bacc, SMP Starts next year.). Is this overkill? (64 credits Post-Bacc and SMP). No MCAT yet, taking this Winter.

I want some time in between my semester withdrawal, which was just last year before applying to Medical School. Applying the year after I feel is rather risky.

With 32 credits of 3.7+, you're ready for an SMP

 

[Hulk_MD]

Hello, I had a question about my coursework. I finished undergrad in 2014 with a 3.5 GPA and completed a Master's in 2016 with a 3.97 GPA. Problem is I have not taken classes since 2016 and instead have been working full time as a MRI technologist. My MCAT was a 512 in January 2020. Is this going to be a problem for me applying to medical schools? Should I be looking into an SMP or doing a DIY post bacc to demonstrate my competency in the classroom?

 

[Goro]

Hello, I had a question about my coursework. I finished undergrad in 2014 with a 3.5 GPA and completed a Master's in 2016 with a 3.97 GPA. Problem is I have not taken classes since 2016 and instead have been working full time as a MRI technologist. My MCAT was a 512 in January 2020. Is this going to be a problem for me applying to medical schools? Should I be looking into an SMP or doing a DIY post bacc to demonstrate my competency in the classroom?

Probably not. There are schools that have an expiration date for pre-reqs, but you'll need to double check with the schools you apply to to which ones are OK with your schooling vintage.

My question for you is: are YOU ready for the classroom?

 

[Goro]

I can't recommend a SMP as your stats are fine. Maybe 1-2 upper level science courses just to get your feet wet again?

 

[Hulk_MD]

Probably not. There are schools that have an expiration date for pre-reqs, but you'll need to double check with the schools you apply to to which ones are OK with your schooling vintage.

My question for you is: are YOU ready for the classroom?

@Goro Thank you very much for the help! I never thought about it that way, perhaps I will take some classes just to get in the correct mindset for the classroom again.

 

[HealthyLifestyle34]

@Goro Im in pharmacy school and really want to be a physician. Do you think I have a chance if my undergrad gpa is 2.8 and the usGPA is 2.5? I have a 3.59 atm in pharmacy school (2 years completed, 2 more to go) and plan to apply next cycle. Im hoping to bring my grad school gpa up to 3.65 by the time I apply (maybe 3.7 if I work hard enough). My last 50 credits for grad school have been a 3.78 gpa on average. I plan to take the MCAT next year as well.

Any school (preferably MD) that I could apply to asuming my MCATs high enough? If so, what score would be competitive?
Also would I be screened due to my low undergraduate gpa? I know grad school gpa is looked at separately for MD schools and averaged in for DO but I really want to get into MD if possible. I dont think pharmacy school counts towards my BCPM either.

 

[Goro]

@Goro Im in pharmacy school and really want to be a physician. Do you think I have a chance if my undergrad gpa is 2.8 and the usGPA is 2.5? I have a 3.59 atm in pharmacy school (2 years completed, 2 more to go) and plan to apply next cycle. Im hoping to bring my grad school gpa up to 3.65 by the time I apply (maybe 3.7 if I work hard enough). My last 50 credits for grad school have been a 3.78 gpa on average. I plan to take the MCAT next year as well.

Any school (preferably MD) that I could apply to asuming my MCATs high enough? If so, what score would be competitive?
Also would I be screened due to my low undergraduate gpa? I know grad school gpa is looked at separately for MD schools and averaged in for DO but I really want to get into MD if possible. I dont think pharmacy school counts towards my BCPM either.

I don't know how AMCAS looks at PharmD GPAs.

AACOMAS will count them, so chnces may be best with DO.

Wise @gonnif, what say you?

 

[HealthyLifestyle34]

@Goro I think AMCAS views them as separate gpas and doesnt count them as BCPM. Could a high MCAT and a good gpa in pharmacy school (continual upward trend - averaging around a 3.7) be enough to show med schools (MDs) that Ive changed and that I can do the work now or will the undergrad gpa not allow it? Thanks

 

[HealthyLifestyle34]

A few thoughts
1) You had a dismal UG. Since all med school applicants have UG GPA (and not all with any other GPA), UG GPA is typically used as first step for screening
2) Schools will look at grade trends, but since your is PharmD/Grad, it may be viewed with less impact than a PB or SMP
3) Most PhnarmD courses will NOT be science (BCPM) in AMCAS classification
4) my biggest concern is that you are deciding to apply prior to completing PharmD. So in addition to dismal UG, you are not showing commitment and discipline to complete the PharmD program. Well if you arent going to complete that, what does that say about your commitment or ability to complete the long training of medical school and residency?
5) Your focus on MCAT does not address any of the above.

Thanks for your response. Im still going to go through with it (even if Im not accepted) because its just a personal goal I set for myself. As for completing the pharmD, Ill apply in the 2021-2022 cycle and obtain my pharmD in 2022. So I will have completed the pharmD prior to starting (if accepted)

 

[HealthyLifestyle34]

But you are APPLYING without it. What is was you motivation for going to PharmD? why are you leaving the profession prior to ever working a day in the field or indeed considering leaving before even completing the program? And if you are so easily leaving this profession, why arent you a risk for leaving any other profession? Are you leaving because while you got good grades, was it just too much? are you just a degree collector? you dont have long term motivation? commitment? it raises too many questions and too many risks.

Yea thats true. I just want to be able to learn how to diagnose too. Becoming a drug expert is pretty cool but physicians also need to know about medications as well when writing prescriptions. I personally want to go to med school to train on the diagnosing aspect. I get what youre saying but I dont think transitioning from pharmacist to a physician is that bad since physicians also need drug knowledge since theyre the ones prescribing.

Also we do have rotations here in pharmacy school so I am technically experiencing the field in different settings. The pharmacist will be checking me to make sure I do not make mistakes but Im doing the work that a pharmacist would do under their supervision.

Ive seen the statistics that are published and see people with less than 3.0 gpas get into medical school so I do know I have a chance even if its not as high as those with above 3.0. Thanks for the advice guys but Im doing it

 

[HealthyLifestyle34]

I deal almost exclusively with reapplicants, nontraditional, and problem applicants. The worst acceptance rate to medical school by major is specialized health majors, such as Pharm and RN. And I have great difficulty with these when are right out of school or not even completed a program. Last cycle I has PharmD with excellent UG and Pharm record and 520+ MCAT. Got an acceptance but to the "lowest" school on the list. Do not assume that medical schools will consider your PharmD as asset but rather a representation of risk

Much appreciated, thank you. Any advice on what I can do to bring up my chances?

 

[Goro]

Much appreciated, thank you. Any advice on what I can do to bring up my chances?

Come up with a better rationale going to medical school other than "I want to diagnose people". These are real patients with real problems, not intellectual puzzles to be solved.

 

[swim97]

Is it better to have spent 2 years doing volunteering for one program than spending 1 year for two different, but similar, programs each?

I didn't really enjoy my experience for the program I was a part of, and find the newer program to be (potentially) more fun.

 

[Goro]

Is it better to have spent 2 years doing volunteering for one program than spending 1 year for two different, but similar, programs each?

I didn't really enjoy my experience for the program I was a part of, and find the newer program to be (potentially) more fun.

Doesn't matter one bit in my eyes. Do what you love, and love what you do.

 

[Bergamasque]

My school has two Biochemistries: A science-major Biochemistry and premed-Biochemistry. They all cover the same content but emphasize different parts of the Biochem survey (i.e Structure and Function of Proteins, Lipids and DNA, vs Citric Acid Cycle, Glycogenesis etc.) Would you consider them the same class if they have different course numbers?

Similarly, there are two classes for Genetics: Cellular Genetics and Regular Genetics. Each of these classes expands upon the introductory biology survey courses, where one is focused on the Cellular Machinery, and the latter is focused on Evolution. Looking at the syllabus, I found more overlap between Intro Bio and Immunology than between these two classes. How would you interpret an applicant that took both Molecular Genetics and Genetics?

 

[Goro]

My school has two Biochemistries: A science-major Biochemistry and premed-Biochemistry. They all cover the same content but emphasize different parts of the Biochem survey (i.e Structure and Function of Proteins, Lipids and DNA, vs Citric Acid Cycle, Glycogenesis etc.) Would you consider them the same class if they have different course numbers?

Similarly, there are two classes for Genetics: Cellular Genetics and Regular Genetics. Each of these classes expands upon the introductory biology survey courses, where one is focused on the Cellular Machinery, and the latter is focused on Evolution. Looking at the syllabus, I found more overlap between Intro Bio and Immunology than between these two classes. How would you interpret an applicant that took both Molecular Genetics and Genetics?

All I see on a transcript are course titles. I have no idea what your content is.

 

[Bergamasque]

So you'd see a class called BIOL 2400 Genetics and BIOL 3400 Molecular Genetics as a retake?

or Pre-Health Biochemistry and Biochemistry as a retake?

 

[Goro]

So you'd see a class called BIOL 2400 Genetics and BIOL 3400 Molecular Genetics as a retake?
No
or Pre-Health Biochemistry and Biochemistry as a retake?
Yes

 

[Goro]

Format: (cGPA, sGPA)
HS credit: (2.00, 2.00) - calc class, got a C, carried onto transcript
Freshman: (3.378, 3.133)
Sophomore: (3.639, 3.636)
Junior: (3.76, 3.68)

Overall so far: (3.50, 3.43)

I'm wondering how this trend looks? If I manage a 3.6-3.7+ for my senior year, will I be able to apply as ~3.6/7 applicant? For reference, my MCAT is 514. Any guidance would be greatly appreciated.

Looks excellent. And yes, apply as someone with 3.7ish GPAs. Bulk up on the service ECs before most of the schools that will throw you some love are service loving.

 

[thatguyinschool]

Hey Goro, thanks for everything you do for this forum!

So I am about to graduate, about a semester left. 52 credits and unfortunately a 2.25 SGPA, have about 33 credits left mainly science classes, did poorly throughout my undergrad here, no excuses. Now my question is am I done? Should I start looking else where? Or can I still get in after doing well on these next 33 credits plus post bacc or an smp and a good mcat or should i start looking elsewhere? saw your post about classes just wanted your professional opinion

Was leaning towards podiatry or nursing as a backup, just confused lost and seeking advice, thanks again!

 

[Goro]

Hey Goro, thanks for everything you do for this forum!

So I am about to graduate, about a semester left. 52 credits and unfortunately a 2.25 SGPA, have about 33 credits left mainly science classes, did poorly throughout my undergrad here, no excuses. Now my question is am I done? Should I start looking else where? Or can I still get in after doing well on these next 33 credits plus post bacc or an smp and a good mcat or should i start looking elsewhere? saw your post about classes just wanted your professional opinion

Was leaning towards podiatry or nursing as a backup, just confused lost and seeking advice, thanks again!

If you ace everything from now on, and I mean ACE, then go for a DIY Postbac. I don't know if you'll be able to swing an SMP after that, given how much damage you've done to your GPA, but if you can find one, consider that as well

 

[thatguyinschool]

If you ace everything from now on, and I mean ACE, then go for a DIY Postbac. I don't know if you'll be able to swing an SMP after that, given how much damage you've done to your GPA, but if you can find one, consider that as well

That’s SGPA not CGPA just wanted to clarify. So if I ace from here on, and do a DIY Post bacc, still won’t be enough right?

 

[Goro]

That’s SGPA not CGPA just wanted to clarify. So if I ace from here on, and do a DIY Post bacc, still won’t be enough right?

Ace as I told you and then the DIY postbac, do well on MCAT and yes, Medicine is still doable.

 

[thatguyinschool]

Ace as I told you and then the DIY postbac, do well on MCAT and yes, Medicine is still doable.

SMP will be needed as well, or if I do well here on out it’ll be sufficient? But I still don’t think with all those classes I’ll be able to hit the 3.0 sgpa mark

 

[Goro]

SMP will be needed as well, or if I do well here on out it’ll be sufficient? But I still don’t think with all those classes I’ll be able to hit the 3.0 sgpa mark

I think SMP will be your best route to med school.

If you get a C at any point, or have more Bs than As, then it's time for Plan B.

 

[Big Tall Doctor]

@Goro Should a reinventor utilize "Additional info" sections of secondaries to explain poor undergraduate performance and highlight the post bacc success or just simply leave it blank and not draw attention to it?

 

[Goro]

@Goro Should a reinventor utilize "Additional info" sections of secondaries to explain poor undergraduate performance and highlight the post bacc success or just simply leave it blank and not draw attention to it?

This can be risky because most times explanations come off as excuses.

If you have a letter of recommendation writer also explain the same thing, that might help

 

[Big Tall Doctor]

This can be risky because most times explanations come off as excuses.

I was thinking the same thing, Thank you sir!

 

[manwelio]

This is missing one little thing in my opinion.

Remember, DO is a far better option than Caribbean MD if you plan on practicing in the US. Reinventing yourself is a far better option than going Caribbean.

I wouldn't go that far. Friend's SO went to a Caribbean MD and placed into a transitional year in CA plastic surgery as anesthesiologist and then placed into a one-year residency program in Brooklyn and will finish out residency in Chicago. Not too shabby.

 

[Goro]

I wouldn't go that far. Friend's SO went to a Caribbean MD and placed into a transitional year in CA plastic surgery as anesthesiologist and then placed into a one-year residency program in Brooklyn and will finish out residency in Chicago. Not too shabby.

You do understand the concept of outliers? I can also play the game.

One of my grads is a vascular surgeon, several are neurosurgeons, one is an ophthalmologist, another is a urologist, and another does ENT.

Your turn.

 

[manwelio]

You do understand the concept of outliers? I can also play the game.

One of my grads is a vascular surgeon, several are neurosurgeons, one is an ophthalmologist, another is a urologist, and another does ENT.

Your turn.

It's my turn to be anecdotal in response to your anecdotal response to me? But according to you I already took my "turn." I don't even know what you're trying to contribute here. That you know people who were also successful from Caribbean schools? So you agree, they weren't a waste for those people? Or do you really think that my acquaintance was the only person in his WHOLE class who got a good residency and everyone else smacked the floor hard? His cohort performed well. Try not being rude in your communications on here, seems like you're already probationary at best.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I wouldn't go that far. Friend's SO went to a Caribbean MD and placed into a transitional year in CA plastic surgery as anesthesiologist and then placed into a one-year residency program in Brooklyn and will finish out residency in Chicago. Not too shabby.

One anecdote does not discount all the data that show matching out of the Carib is a 50/50 shot at best, and doing anything competitive is very, very difficult. The schools do not have their students' backs, and are in fact looking for ways to hold them back or fail them out because they don't have enough rotation spots for all the students they're taking money from. All of this is very well documented. Someone going to the Carib just to have the MD after their name is very, very shortsighted.

 

[KnightDoc]

It's my turn to be anecdotal in response to your anecdotal response to me? I don't even know what you're trying to contribute here. Try not being rude in your communications on here, seems like you're already probationary at best.

Fair points!

I think what he was trying to say is that there are exceptions to every rule, and the knock on Caribbean schools is not that it's impossible to place into a transitional year in CA plastic surgery as anesthesiologist and then place into a one-year residency program in Brooklyn and finish out residency in Chicago.

The problem is that they will take just about anyone who can pay or borrow to pay, and, as a result, a LOT of people don't make it to actually practicing medicine. Because you don't know on the front end who is going to be an anesthesiologist in Chicago and who is going to be unemployed and $250,000+ in debt, it's a very risky move that is just not recommended.

 

[manwelio]

Fair points!

I think what he was trying to say is that there are exceptions to every rule, and the knock on Caribbean schools is not that it's impossible to place into a transitional year in CA plastic surgery as anesthesiologist and then place into a one-year residency program in Brooklyn and finish out residency in Chicago.

The problem is that they will take just about anyone who can pay or borrow to pay, and, as a result, a LOT of people don't make it to actually practicing medicine. Because you don't know on the front end who is going to be an anesthesiologist in Chicago and who is going to be unemployed and $250,000+ in debt, it's a very risky move that is just not recommended.

So if someone in here is asking if they should go Caribbean, your advice is that this person will fail because other people near them are not smart enough? Plenty of people get into MD programs and fall on their faces. It's an individual risk. Doesn't USMLE matter more to someone's placement than a peer who didn't study hard enough for the MCAT? If your comment is that the Caribbean schools are themselves poorly organized, poorly staffed, and under-resourced to the point of failing to teach medicine effectively, that's another story. But what I'm hearing, and this is why I'm responding, is that Caribbean peers aren't good enough. Well then Caribbeans peers would be better if more talented people considered attending them!

 

[manwelio]

One anecdote does not discount all the data that show matching out of the Carib is a 50/50 shot at best, and doing anything competitive is very, very difficult. The schools do not have their students' backs, and are in fact looking for ways to hold them back or fail them out because they don't have enough rotation spots for all the students they're taking money from. All of this is very well documented. Someone going to the Carib just to have the MD after their name is very, very shortsighted.

Well this depends on the person. Am I talking about someone who has a 493 on the MCAT and aspires to neurosurgery in NY despite just four months of volunteering as a hospital greeter? No, I'm not going to recommend Barbados for them. I wouldn't even recommend nursing for them. Like, be realistic and know your skills, that's all. So for some people Ross might be a good fit. I think what needs to be discussed is WHY Ross could—could—be a good fit, and what that looks like. Waving a hand at Caribbean and dismissing it entirely doesn't do justice to people who DID succeed through it. As it happens, Puerto Ricans tend to choose Ross if they don't get into Florida schools.

There are plenty of business schools that have the same kind of issues that you're describing. They're a dime a dozen, almost anyone can get in. And I think what you're talking about is being competitive for the most top spots. And an MBA from CSU-You've Never Heard of It isn't going to be competitive if you want to work for a top investment firm in NYC. But that's only because there are no individualized steps in between MBA and NYC. Jobs aren't hired based on your performance, they're hired based on reputation of the school you could get into and any resources like internship placements, alumni, or private job fairs. In common parlance, an MBA is only worth it if it's Top 20. Similar tone here. Except, you have a chance to use USMLE to stand out. So if the Caribbean school is going to give you the knowledge to perform on the USMLE, then the only thing in between you and a fine, perfectly acceptable peds or family practice residency is yourself, not someone else.

 

[KnightDoc]

So if someone in here is asking if they should go Caribbean, your advice is that this person will fail because other people near them are not smart enough? Plenty of people get into MD programs and fall on their faces. It's an individual risk. Doesn't USMLE matter more to someone's placement than a peer who didn't study hard enough for the MCAT? If your comment is that the Caribbean schools are themselves poorly organized, poorly staffed, and under-resourced to the point of failing to teach medicine effectively, that's another story. But what I'm hearing, and this is why I'm responding, is that Caribbean peers aren't good enough. Well then Caribbeans peers would be better if more talented people considered attending them!

No, my advice would be it's a terrible risk, and, if you cannot gain admission to any US MD or DO school, after multiple tries, there is probably a reason why, and maybe you should consider taking the hint. Knowing that, with full disclosure of the high risk of failure, if your family is in a position to finance your adventure out of pocket in order to eliminate the risk of crushing debt that is not dischargeable in bankruptcy if things don't work out, sure, it sounds like a great idea.

Actually, plenty of people do not fall on their faces in US MD programs. The six year graduation rate for US MD programs is consistently over 95%. The comparable number for Caribbean schools is under 50% -- not whatever crap the schools report, but the actual number of actual people who actually earn the MD degree divided by the number of people who matriculated as M1s for any given class.

The for-profit Caribbean schools are actually extremely well organized at fulfilling their mission of earning a return on investment for their owners. If their goal was to teach medicine effectively, they would be located and licensed in the US, would be able to provide clinical rotations for each and every matriculant, and would invest the necessary resources to ensure that each and every student deemed worthy of admission had the tools necessary to successfully complete their program and become licensed physicians.

This doesn't happen because this isn't the goal. They don't screen for people academically prepared to succeed. They don't have rotations for everyone they admit. And they don't waste money and other resources on students unlikely to master the material. They admit anyone who can pay and then let them sink or swim by design, not through incompetence. They earn what they can and then release them so that they can resell the seat to someone else. A significant number of people survive to fill the residencies US students don't want. A more significant number don't even get that chance. And, a tiny fraction become anesthesiologists in Chicago.

More talented people will never consider attending them. Again, not because it is impossible to succeed, because it is, but because the risks of failure due to their business model are so great that only desperate people with no other options consider them. By definition, that is not "more talented people," and, for good reason, never will be.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Well this depends on the person. Am I talking about someone who has a 493 on the MCAT and aspires to neurosurgery in NY despite just four months of volunteering as a hospital greeter? No, I'm not going to recommend Barbados for them. I wouldn't even recommend nursing for them. Like, be realistic and know your skills, that's all. So for some people Ross might be a good fit. I think what needs to be discussed is WHY Ross could—could—be a good fit, and what that looks like. Waving a hand at Caribbean and dismissing it entirely doesn't do justice to people who DID succeed through it. As it happens, Puerto Ricans tend to choose Ross if they don't get into Florida schools.

There are plenty of business schools that have the same kind of issues that you're describing. They're a dime a dozen, almost anyone can get in. And I think what you're talking about is being competitive for the most top spots. And an MBA from CSU-You've Never Heard of It isn't going to be competitive if you want to work for a top investment firm in NYC. But that's only because there are no individualized steps in between MBA and NYC. Jobs aren't hired based on your performance, they're hired based on reputation of the school you could get into and any resources like internship placements, alumni, or private job fairs. In common parlance, an MBA is only worth it if it's Top 20. Similar tone here. Except, you have a chance to use USMLE to stand out. So if the Caribbean school is going to give you the knowledge to perform on the USMLE, then the only thing in between you and a fine, perfectly acceptable peds or family practice residency is yourself, not someone else.

Are there people who could succeed in the Caribbean? Yes. But most of those people could probably get into a US med school. It might mean a couple years of gpa repair or an mcat retake or even just a better school list. But if you can succeed in the Caribbean then you could get into somewhere in the US if you put in the time and the work.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

But this isn’t a Caribbean vs DO thread, so let’s not turn it into one. There are plenty of those threads here and applicants can find out plenty of information and make their own decision.

 

[KnightDoc]

But this isn’t a Caribbean vs DO thread, so let’s not turn it into one. There are plenty of those threads here and applicants can find out plenty of information and make their own decision.

What's the difference between an Administrator and a Moderator????

For some reason I thought you were a mod, and am now wondering what is the difference!!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

What's the difference between an Administrator and a Moderator????

For some reason I thought you were a mod, and am now wondering what is the difference!!

I got a promotion. More responsibilities, same pay (zilch).

 

[Goro]

I got a promotion. More responsibilities, same pay (zilch).

Kinda like being a Dep't Chair.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Kinda like being a Dep't Chair.

Except with less respect.

 

[KnightDoc]

Except with less respect.

I respect you!!!

 

[Bloobury]

Hi Goro!

I'm a nontrad who majored in physiology (and thus, took all the prereqs except ochem and biochem in UG) and graduated in 2011. I graduated magna cum laude due to an outstanding research thesis, despite my cGPA being a 3.42. I had a rough freshman year and got a few C's (but no D's or F's or W's). I just got B's in almost every science class, which seemed fine for the difficulty of the classes (endocrinology, exercise physiology, calculus, etc), but now I'm left with a massive amount of BCPM credits at barely a 3.0 sGPA.

I've calculated that if I take another 6 credits of upper division science courses in the spring and get a 4.0, that will raise my PBsGPA to a 3.65 (20 PB credits total). 12 more credits of 4.0 would give me a 3.72 (26 PB credits total).

Obviously there's no fixing my UG sGPA, but how many credits do you think is enough to show improvement as a DIY post-bac?

Full stats below.

 

[Goro]

Hi Goro!

I'm a nontrad who majored in physiology (and thus, took all the prereqs except ochem and biochem in UG) and graduated in 2011. I graduated magna cum laude due to an outstanding research thesis, despite my cGPA being a 3.42. I had a rough freshman year and got a few C's (but no D's or F's or W's). I just got B's in almost every science class, which seemed fine for the difficulty of the classes (endocrinology, exercise physiology, calculus, etc), but now I'm left with a massive amount of BCPM credits at barely a 3.0 sGPA.

Over the past few years as I've considered going back to school I've taken ochem (4 credits, B), ochem lab (1 credit, A-), biochem (4 credits, B+), and got a 510 on the MCAT - all while working full time. I'm currently re-taking anatomy (5 credits, will get an A). That will bring my post-bac sGPA to a 3.49.

I've calculated that if I take another 6 credits of upper division science courses in the spring and get a 4.0, that will raise my PBsGPA to a 3.65 (20 PB credits total). 12 more credits of 4.0 would give me a 3.72 (26 PB credits total).

Obviously there's no fixing my UG sGPA, but how many credits do you think is enough to show improvement as a DIY post-bac?

Full stats below.

[Edit: My goal is my state school (MD program), which is my top choice. Otherwise I'd be thrilled to go to Netter, University of Vermont, or similar. DO would be fine too, but for cost and location reasons MD is my ideal.]

	BCPM		All Other		Total
	GPA	Hours	GPA	Hours	GPA	Hours
HS			3.83	18	3.83	18
FR	2.25	16	3.38	16	2.81	32
SO	4	3	3.94	32	3.95	35
JR	2.93	21	3.9	9	3.22	30
SR	3.11	30	4	18	3.45	48
PB UG	3.21	9			3.21	9
cUG	2.94	79	3.83		3.42	172
Grad			4	2	4	2

I'm not seeing much a reinvention trend; are you giving cumulative GPAs? If so, that's not helping me assess your situation

I need to see each year's sGPA and cGPA. Forget about AO as well.

 

[Bloobury]

I'm not seeing much a reinvention trend; are you giving cumulative GPAs? If so, that's not helping me assess your situation

I need to see each year's sGPA and cGPA. Forget about AO as well.

Yeah, those are each year's stats. The reinvention will be occurring in the PB, since I don't really have an upward trend in UG. I got a 4.0 in a graduate-level public health class, but since it's graduate and non-BCPM I'm guessing no one cares.

If I can get that PB sGPA to a 3.65, or 3.72, is that good enough? Or do I need to go higher? It's tough because I'm working full time and am limited as to how many credits I can take (and afford) each semester, but I can get 12 more credits in by next summer if I really commit to it.

 

[Goro]

Yeah, those are each year's stats. The reinvention will be occurring in the PB, since I don't really have an upward trend in UG. I got a 4.0 in a graduate-level public health class, but since it's graduate and non-BCPM I'm guessing no one cares.

If I can get that PB sGPA to a 3.65, or 3.72, is that good enough? Or do I need to go higher? It's tough because I'm working full time and am limited as to how many credits I can take (and afford) each semester, but I can get 12 more credits in by next summer if I really commit to it.

	BCPM		Total GPA
	GPA	Hours	GPA	Hours
HS			3.83	18
FR	2.25	16	2.81	32
SO	4	3	3.95	35
JR	2.93	21	3.22	30
SR	3.11	30	3.45	48
PB UG	3.21 (3.49 after this semester)	9 (14 after this semester)	3.21	9
Cumulative	2.94 (3.0 after this semester)	79 (84)	3.42	172
Grad			4	2

All reinventors need to ace their post-bac work. I fear that you have done yourself some damage, and that might only be remediated by doing an SMP.

The undulating GPAs during college are a concern for me, as they appear to have carried on into the post-bac.
I suggest that you work for a few years, maybe taking a course/semester, save up money and then go full time into SMP or post-bac

 

[kenykj49]

**Old post updated with MCAT score**

Hey Reinventer Fam,

I wanted to post some of my progress and hopefully get some feedback as begin to put together my school list. I'm graduating in a few months from a small state school after taking a few extra semesters of classes to boost my GPA. Here is an analysis of my trends:

Note, my "senior" year consists of 91.5 credits (3.937 GPA). I did not categorize these as post-bacc since I never actually graduated

MCAT: 514 (129/126/128/131)

EC Category	Hours	Description
Paid Clinical	~3,000+	Scribe (Leadership Position, chief scribe) ED and Oncology/Hematology
Non-Clinical Volunteering	~300	Crisis Text Line, TA (EMR), Patient Advocate, Teaching English Abroad, Habitat for Humanity, Organic Chemistry Tutor
Clinical Volunteering	Current	Red Cross, EMT
Research	None

I am planning to apply broadly next cycle; obviously DO schools are on the table. Do I have a shot at MD schools or should I stick to primarily DO schools?

 

[Calizboosted76]

**Old post updated with MCAT score**

Hey Reinventer Fam,

I wanted to post some of my progress and hopefully get some feedback as begin to put together my school list. I'm graduating in a few months from a small state school after taking a few extra semesters of classes to boost my GPA. Here is an analysis of my trends:

Note, my "senior" year consists of 92.5 credits (3.937 GPA). I did not categorize these as post-bacc since I never actually graduated

MCAT: 514 (129/126/128/131)

View attachment 320490

EC Category	Hours	Description
Paid Clinical	~3,000+	Scribe (Leadership Position, chief scribe) ED and Oncology/Hematology
Non-Clinical Volunteering	~300	Crisis Text Line, TA (EMR), Patient Advocate, Teaching English Abroad, Habitat for Humanity, Organic Chemistry Tutor
Clinical Volunteering	Current	Red Cross, EMT
Research	None

I am planning to apply broadly next cycle; obviously DO schools are on the table. Do I have a shot at MD schools or should I stick to primarily DO schools?

I had 2.6 and 2.9 GPAs and I was accepted at a DO school already (Last 60 credits of my "Super senior" year were a 3.8). I also had a 506 MCAT. 4500+ hours as a scribe, a couple hundred hours of volunteering. I think you GPA's being about 3.0 you may have a chance at MD but def at a DO if you are able to portray your story correctly and efficiently.